Grad School?

[pugmaster]

I am going to grad school under my own volition but don't really know too much about it.  Can you get accepted before actually completing your b.a.?  How long should you give professors to write letters of recommendation?  I have looked at all that crap online but SLAP has never let me down EVER so I figured I would ask.  Thanks in advance

[penguin meat]

I just figured I could click on some links and get an application, bullshit some shit, send transcripts, and win.

[pugmaster]

yeah I just figured that people that have been through it might have additional tips that one might not be able to inquire from a department's website.

[crest]

Every grad student I know talks about how much they hate being a grad student.

[max power]

what would you be going for? take a year off, work and figure out what you really want to do. you will have just finished 16+ years of school. take the time to figure shit out, travel or do whatever. grad school will still be there if you decide it's the right thing to do.

[papasmurfsdog]

Letters of recommendation are kind of a hassle, the better the teacher knows you, the easier it is for them to write. So teachers with smaller classes would be better candidates. The earlier you ask, the better. You may not be the only one in the class that wants a reference letter written for them. It only took my professors a couple days to actually write and send them in though.

[mandibleclaw]

Every grad student I know talks about how much they hate being a grad student.

DING DING DING we have a winner

[Omamori]

Every grad student I know talks about how much they hate being a grad student.

This is what I'm dreading 


Yes you can get accept before receiving your BA, your student advisers will tell you when it's the best time to apply. I would maintain at least a 3.5 GPA, some grad schools will not look at your GRE if your GPA is 3.5 or higher (this is my goal, I suck at taking tests). Get your teacher recommendations ASAP, the sooner the better. Also if you are required to do papers for classes, research topics that will help you later in your area of interest...grad schools might ask for a sample paper that you have written. And the most important thing volunteer, internship, etc in your field. Grad schools look and like to see you have some experience in the field. Good luck!

[Fine Young Cannibal]

[lampshade]

I took my GREs while in undergrad, then worked at a huge management consulting firm before applying to grad school.  Most schools require your letters of rec be sealed by the author- so you can't look at them.  Since I worked for a few years, I got them from managers, not profs.  I did my MS in EE while working full time.  It sucked, but was worth it in the end.  I probably make 25% more a year because I have my MS. 

[alittleethnicsong]

Every grad student I know talks about how much they hate being a grad student.

That's funny, every grad student I know is hungry as hell, and about it.

Grad school means one thing more than anything else--research! If you dig laboriously digging for information and understanding, than you're it!

I am waiting to hear back from six PhD programs right now, and can't fucking wait to get back into the classroom (and/or conference room).

This makes a big difference--whether you are just going for a terminal Masters, or a PhD.

Nobody will give you any money if you merely go for a Masters. If you commit to the PhD, and get accepted into a program...FELLOWSHIPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

Seriously, in every PhD program I have applied to, acceptance automatically comes with a mouth-watering fellowship with full tuition, gnarly/yearly living stipend, health benefits, and summer research grants. You are expected to have something groundbreaking and publishable after you've successfully defended your doctoral thesis, but that's just another bonus.

Letters of Rec.--Start as ahead of time as possible, professors are really busy people.

Definitely a bonus if in your undergrad time, you did some kind of Honors/independent study research, and the resulting paper (which should be at least 20 pages long), is related to the direction you want to follow in your grad research.

Which reminds me, everything I am saying here, is based on the Humanities. In the Humanities, you are expected to have at least some kind of general idea of what you want to concentrate on in your research--this is not the case in other fields.

And finally, perhaps nothing is more important than your statement of purpose, so get it into as many hands as possible, and plan on having to revise it oftener than anything else you have written. An outstanding statement can offset mediocre grades and shitty GRE scores (by the way, a lot of schools consider the GRE scores the least important facet of your application). But seriously, as you will read anywhere, it is difficult to overstate the importance of an incredible statement.

Good luck brother!

Edit: With regards to the whole Masters/PhD decision you have to make, keep in mind that, in a way, some schools kind of penalize you for having a masters, because they will not give you advanced standing on that work--especially if it was done at another institution. I'm not real clear on the determining logic and politics behind all of this though.

What I do know is, it is rare for a school/program to require anything more than a BA for consideration for acceptance.

[Fine Young Cannibal]

[Belligerent Irish Cop]

Don't let these bums discourage you. what is your field of study? Usually to have a good chance of getting in gradschool, you want to show that you've done some real work in your field. Participated in research with your professors, done summer internships, or even done your own independent research.

Gradschool is pretty sweet. Not only do they pay for your masters degree but you are paid a stipend while you are working towards your PhD (at least in the sciences). You have to work hard, but for the first time in your life you are really doing real work, and that's a big motivator.

[alittleethnicsong]

You have to work hard, but for the first time in your life you are really doing real work, and that's a big motivator.

Couldn't agree more.

I heard someone say it something like this: pursuing a PhD is for people that are simply about the kind of scholarly work and engagement, that it is difficult to put a dollar amount on.

The doctorate, and the publishing of some substantial body of research is simply the gnarly bonus at the end (and also hopefully a sick tenure track position somewhere, right away!).

[Omamori]

Luckily my field only requires a masters, a doctoral degree is too much.

I hate to take over some one's thread, but how difficult is it to volunteer or internship somewhere?

[Belligerent Irish Cop]

Luckily my field only requires a masters, a doctoral degree is too much.

I hate to take over some one's thread, but how difficult is it to volunteer or internship somewhere?

easy but start applying for the summer positions now.

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

I'm hyped on my master's program. A lot of cool research, and if you go to a university with a prestigious department, the people who give the department that prestige almost always teach grad school courses only. The classes are small and you really get to know them too. Its rad, a lot of theory and studies have come out of my department that I have read, and if I have a question about it or just the general field they do the research in, I can ask. I have had some of the most amazing, several hour long intellectual discussions of my life with professors, which alone is worth it.

Oh, and know, you will work your ass off. You better be into what you study.

In terms of what gets you in, it seriously varies by program, and field of study. Some want legit experiences in the field, others care about test scores, its such a random thing.

[RicoTron]

So I rarely post on slap, but I thought that maybe because I actually am in graduate school for a master's in counseling with a specialization in addiction studies I could probably guide you in the right direction. In graduate school I like to think there are two types of degrees: hard science and soft science. Hard science graduate degrees such as chemistry, biology, or medical degrees want high GPA's around 3.5 or higher and a High GRE(or MCAT for M.D.) score in the math section, and are willing to accept lower scores in the English and writing section. Their letters of recommendation have to be related to the subject that you are studying or from professors in that field of study or a related hard science. Depending on the prestige of the university you are applying to sometimes if you don't meet the minimum for their scores, GPA, or you turn in an application with the three recommendation letters they put your file in the not accepted pile (which I have witnessed).

Soft Sciences (Psychology, Sociology, Anthropology) are a little more forgiving in all these areas because they usually take a more holistic approach and look more at what you can contribute to the field or the community rather than how awesome you are academically. This isn't to say that they have incredibly low standards, but you won't be looked at if your GPA is less than 3.0, your GRE scores are less than 1100, and your writing sample is less than 4. Experiences are very vital to getting in also depending on what you want to do, Anthropology usually wants experience in other cultures, Psychology wants direct experience with marginalized populations or clients in a mental health setting, and Sociology usually wants you to have worked within systems such as non profits or government organizations.

I hope this helps and I hope that you do not go into Law School (unless it's tier 1), get a Ph.D in Art, a Ph.D in English, or a Ph.D in Philosophy because that will be the biggest waste of money, time and you won't find a job.

[alittleethnicsong]

I hope that you do not go into Law School (unless it's tier 1), get a Ph.D in Art, a Ph.D in English, or a Ph.D in Philosophy because that will be the biggest waste of money, time and you won't find a job.

"You won't find a job," unless you are pursuing a PhD to teach (and continue to research, write, and publish) at the university level in the first place, which is exactly why people pursue these degrees.

[Fine Young Cannibal]

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I hope that you do not go into Law School (unless it's tier 1), get a Ph.D in Art, a Ph.D in English, or a Ph.D in Philosophy because that will be the biggest waste of money, time and you won't find a job.

[close]

"You won't find a job," unless you are pursuing a PhD to teach (and continue to research, write, and publish) at the university level in the first place, which is exactly why people pursue these degrees.

You will get a job, but odds are it will be as an assistant or adjunct professor at bumblefuck university.  If you're looking for a tenure track position, the odds are not in your favor.

[RicoTron]

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I hope that you do not go into Law School (unless it's tier 1), get a Ph.D in Art, a Ph.D in English, or a Ph.D in Philosophy because that will be the biggest waste of money, time and you won't find a job.

[close]

"You won't find a job," unless you are pursuing a PhD to teach (and continue to research, write, and publish) at the university level in the first place, which is exactly why people pursue these degrees.

[close]

You will get a job, but odds are it will be as an assistant or adjunct professor at bumblefuck university.  If you're looking for a tenure track position, the odds are not in your favor.

Not to mention the amount of debt you will acquire and be unable to pay off. Also if you hate doing literature reviews a Ph.D track may not be for you either. I know plenty of people that end up dropping out from grad school because they can't come up with an original question that hasn't been answered in the literature or the idea doesn't get approved  by the adviser.

Also alittleethnicsong, to get to tenure where your job is secure you have to go through the "publish or perish" gauntlet where you have to keep getting article published in journals so the school stays relevant or you lose your job to another grad student who is on the cutting edge because of their latest article.

[Fine Young Cannibal]

http://www.selloutyoursoul.com/

[alittleethnicsong]

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I hope that you do not go into Law School (unless it's tier 1), get a Ph.D in Art, a Ph.D in English, or a Ph.D in Philosophy because that will be the biggest waste of money, time and you won't find a job.

[close]

"You won't find a job," unless you are pursuing a PhD to teach (and continue to research, write, and publish) at the university level in the first place, which is exactly why people pursue these degrees.

[close]

You will get a job, but odds are it will be as an assistant or adjunct professor at bumblefuck university.� If you're looking for a tenure track position, the odds are not in your favor.

[close]

Not to mention the amount of debt you will acquire and be unable to pay off. Also if you hate doing literature reviews a Ph.D track may not be for you either. I know plenty of people that end up dropping out from grad school because they can't come up with an original question that hasn't been answered in the literature or the idea doesn't get approved� by the adviser.

Also alittleethnicsong, to get to tenure where your job is secure you have to go through the "publish or perish" gauntlet where you have to keep getting article published in journals so the school stays relevant or you lose your job to another grad student who is on the cutting edge because of their latest article.

Speaking personally, with my GPA (4.0) and distinctions (Summa cum Laude, Phi Beta Kappa, etc.)--not bragging, simply relevant to what I am talking about--every PhD program that I am applying to, offers fellowships that pay for everything--most PhD programs are this way, which is why acceptance into them is indeed competitive.

My BA also was acquired via a full ride, and left me in the end with very little debt, despite a whole extra year devoted to Honors/independent study work, that produced a thesis for a writing sample, that is a kernel of what I want to do in grad school.

I do not want to write an "essay" here, in response to most of what you have written, but it would take that much, to genuinely address what you have pointed out above. What I will say is, you are right, and for those of us who genuinely love the work, alas, thus is the nature of the beast.

What you have pointed out in the second paragraph, also helps to explain why English Departments throughout academia, are emphasizing interdisciplinarity, and concentrations in "cultural studies," beyond the traditional realms of mere Literature.

Once again, personally--due to my interests in matters of "modernity" and "Americanism" (to put it in an extremely general sense)--I am applying to both English, and, American Studies programs.

Regardless, you are right, it is not an easy path, one must work their ass off, and even if you are comparatively successful, you still do not make that much money. Thank god I am an old hessian who has been living hand-to-mouth most of my adult life anyway...eh? I love the work, and the environment, and for those who are the same, who gives a fuck about the rest of the bullshit...

...and...hey...anyway, according to your first comments, you appear to also be going into another field that is indeed righteous and invaluable, but nevertheless a bad idea if you are worried about money--even if jobs are more plentiful...brudda'

[RicoTron]

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I hope that you do not go into Law School (unless it's tier 1), get a Ph.D in Art, a Ph.D in English, or a Ph.D in Philosophy because that will be the biggest waste of money, time and you won't find a job.

[close]

"You won't find a job," unless you are pursuing a PhD to teach (and continue to research, write, and publish) at the university level in the first place, which is exactly why people pursue these degrees.

[close]

Everything you have said is true, but I just wanted to tell it like it is, so Pugmaster knows that it takes hard work and dedication to succeed for very meager rewards.



You will get a job, but odds are it will be as an assistant or adjunct professor at bumblefuck university.� If you're looking for a tenure track position, the odds are not in your favor.

[close]

Not to mention the amount of debt you will acquire and be unable to pay off. Also if you hate doing literature reviews a Ph.D track may not be for you either. I know plenty of people that end up dropping out from grad school because they can't come up with an original question that hasn't been answered in the literature or the idea doesn't get approved� by the adviser.

Also alittleethnicsong, to get to tenure where your job is secure you have to go through the "publish or perish" gauntlet where you have to keep getting article published in journals so the school stays relevant or you lose your job to another grad student who is on the cutting edge because of their latest article.

[close]

Speaking personally, with my GPA (4.0) and distinctions (Summa cum Laude, Phi Beta Kappa, etc.)--not bragging, simply relevant to what I am talking about--every PhD program that I am applying to, offers fellowships that pay for everything--most PhD programs are this way, which is why acceptance into them is indeed competitive.

My BA also was acquired via a full ride, and left me in the end with very little debt, despite a whole extra year devoted to Honors/independent study work, that produced a thesis for a writing sample, that is a kernel of what I want to do in grad school.

I do not want to write an "essay" here, in response to most of what you have written, but it would take that much, to genuinely address what you have pointed out above. What I will say is, you are right, and for those of us who genuinely love the work, alas, thus is the nature of the beast.

What you have pointed out in the second paragraph, also helps to explain why English Departments throughout academia, are emphasizing interdisciplinarity, and concentrations in "cultural studies," beyond the traditional realms of mere Literature.

Once again, personally--due to my interests in matters of "modernity" and "Americanism" (to put it in an extremely general sense)--I am applying to both English, and, American Studies programs.

Regardless, you are right, it is not an easy path, one must work their ass off, and even if you are comparatively successful, you still do not make that much money. Thank god I am an old hessian who has been living hand-to-mouth most of my adult life anyway...eh? I love the work, and the environment, and for those who are the same, who gives a fuck about the rest of the bullshit...

...and...hey...anyway, according to your first comments, you appear to also be going into another field that is indeed righteous and invaluable, but nevertheless a bad idea if you are worried about money--even if jobs are more plentiful...brudda'

[pugmaster]

Thanks guys, I got a lot of info!  My career path is speech pathology and I need at least a masters to practice.  There is a huge shortage of SLPs everywhere so I am not worried about getting a job.  I wouldn't mind going for the phd if that means I will have to not worry about working at mcdonalds while I get my crap done.  My school doesn't offer all the classes I need all year long and taking as many units as I can take I will have all but one class done to get my ba.  

Can you apply even if you don't have your stuff done completely?  It sounds like you can... kinda like the community college to university transition.
 
also do you if you plan on going for a phd do you apply at the same time you do for your masters?  If you plan on going for a phd does it make it easier to get accepted?

Does making dean's list (Or honour society memberships) even mean anything to grad applications?  It seems like all the grad students get grades so high that everyone has it.

Oh, and guys in my profession are a clear minority (every class of 50 only 4 or 5 are guys) which may make acceptance easier.  

Basically my cumulative gpa is 3.4-3.5 and after this quarter should be a solid 3.5.  

I got a practice gre score of 360 quant and 520 verbal with no studying and partying.  (hella shitty but I only have room for improvement haha)

I am having a hard time studying because I just stress about not getting into grad school.  I really appreciate your guys/girls posts.

I should be able to get good letters of rec from teachers and former employers.

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

If your degree is in progress and will be complete by the time you start (except if you go to the same university in some rare instances) you can apply.
Phd doesn't guarantee money at all.

[alittleethnicsong]

listen here you beautiful bitch, i'm about to fuck you up with some truth.  first off, ethnic song, you make we want to punch my computer in the face.  yes, you are bragging.  most of what you do on here is brag about your brain.  but no amount of rhetoric will conceal that you're a turd.

depending on what field you're going into, your program will have different demands for acceptance.  but no matter what it is, the most important thing is your work/passion/experience for the field the master's program is based around.  archeology?  you'll need to have gone on digs, done research.  art?  have a rocking portfolio.

me, i'm currently getting my MFA at NYU.  and guess what, ethic song, not only phd programs give money.  lots of grad programs give fellowships, especially if you'll teach while you're studying.  i have a fellowship for my tuition, and a stipend for teaching creative writing to undergrads.

but as everyone said, be prepared to hate life a lot, being stuck studying and researching...unless you're doing some bullshit fine arts master like me.  easy cakes!

get your recommendation letters nailed the fuck down.  professors and bosses will hate you if you ask them at the last minute.

GOOD LUCK

First...mandibleclaw...KISSES TO YOU BUNK BUNK 

Second, pugmaster, as I gathered as I prepared to do what you are doing, every person you ask, is going to give you different--often conflicting--info based on their own experiences. The onus is on you to figure out what applies to your own circumstances and plans.

In my experience--for sure--every school I applied to explicitly stated that terminal masters do not get any money, and every one of them offers full 5 to 7 year fellowship gigs for PhD work. Once again, just based on the six schools with which I am dealing.

[Tyroneshoelaces]

 i finished my masters in economics at Georgetown.   i say you go for it.  just do what you are supposed to do and it will be fine.   people who complain about graduate courses being too demanding or difficult are the worst.  of course it is difficult, it is supposed to be, so just work hard and don't burn any bridges.  

get your recommendation letters nailed the fuck down.  professors and bosses will hate you if you ask them at the last minute.

THIS

[RicoTron]

Pugmaster I will try to answer your question in order.

1) Yes you can apply when finishing you undergrad. They accept you under the condition that you finish your B.A. or B.S.
2) It seems that during your program they might ask you if you want to take the M.A. track or the M.S. track. YOU HAVE TO TAKE THE M.S. TRACK, because that track will prepare you for the literature review that you will have to present to a panel on the research you would like to do to get your Ph.D. You also have to get approval from the IRB board to see if your study is even ethical to do in the first place. Think hard about this now because you won't have much time to decide since the M.S. requires stats and computer courses to familiarize you with handling the massive amounts of data you will be working on unless you go for a qualitative study. (which usually involves massive amounts of transcripts)
3) Making deans list matters for grants and scholarships so that you can get money to pay for your schooling, housing and living expenses, plus it looks good on an application.
4) Being a male minority in female dominated profession is good.
5) Your GPA is awesome, but you should still look at the average applicant GPA which they should have hidden somewhere in the school website.
6)Work on that quant, verbal is good.
7) Don't stress. You'll be fine.
Give the people who are going to write a letter of recommendation a packet with everything they need to send the letter for every institution they will be writing and a prepaid postage envelope that has the school it's going to so there is no excuse for them not to send it.

Good Luck

[lampshade]

I had to Wiki to figure out what speech pathology is.