Skaters win civil suit against Portland security firm

[Tufty]

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Private property is property. Every skater knows they skate at their own risk.

You don't sue for a stupid altercation with rent-a-cops just like you never sue if you get hurt.

[close]

 I dont know whats the deal in America. In Europe a rent-a-cop can only tell you to get the fuck out and call the police. He is not allowed to touch you in any way. Suing is not my type of deal though id rather beat the rent-a-cop myself instead of having 2 year court fights.

If this is not the case in America well, you guys are fucked in the head.

[close]

In the majority of states you are justified in using deadly force if you find people trespassing and involved in illegality on your own private property.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Doctrine

Sometimes it feels like americans need to have a law for breathing cause otherwise they would die from asfyxiation...

 Here you are not justified by law to use violence when someone is tresspassing. You go to court and judges judge if you should have used violence or you overreacted.... Generally you win if there is some serious threat for your property or life.

 Using force against some skate kids??? You would probably not be justified. I mean ok a broken marble in your property worth more than a kids broken head??? You guys are fucked in the head. In that case the police should come and charge the kids.

 Yeah rent-a-cops shouldnt touch you for million reasons. Actually the constitution says that only the state has power over you, so this means only state cops can force me to do something (not that i think its right but thats the rule).

[Narcissus]

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You all should list your addresses so I can come krooked grind the hoods of your cars and then shit on your kitchen floors.

[close]

4055 Fourth Detroit Mi 48201

Come Krooked grind my hood, I'll buy you a beer.

That building looks like it was built to house lunatics in the 1870s. Respect.

[sluggers]

Fuck the douche bags who sued.

[natenola forever]

the problem with these kids sueing is that this is the type of shit that will make companies with plazas or skateable stuff at their buildings go more out of the way to keep people from skating, corporate america would rather level or put a fence around an area with skateable stuff than deal with a lawsuit. They 'll step the skatestopping game up to the point where no level of creativity will get around it, or it will end up like the federal building in San Diego where security meets you at the building when they see you walk up. It's true people need to stand up for their rights but this does nothing to help skateboarding, companies will definately run the numbers, "it cost us 1.3 million on a lawsuit, how much will a fence and 24 hour securty at the fence opening cost us? or we just fill the plaza with grass" if that 's cheaper than what they feel they can get sued for they'll do it.

[sluggers]

the problem with these kids sueing is that this is the type of shit that will make companies with plazas or skateable stuff at their buildings go more out of the way to keep people from skating, corporate america would rather level or put a fence around an area with skateable stuff than deal with a lawsuit. They 'll step the skatestopping game up to the point where no level of creativity will get around it, or it will end up like the federal building in San Diego where security meets you at the building when they see you walk up. It's true people need to stand up for their rights but this does nothing to help skateboarding, companies will definately run the numbers, "it cost us 1.3 million on a lawsuit, how much will a fence and 24 hour securty at the fence opening cost us? or we just fill the plaza with grass" if that 's cheaper than what they feel they can get sued for they'll do it.

[lampshade]

I back the skaters in this situation, although it will probably cause property owners to be a bit more strict in that city. 

Skating public/private property that's not a park is always a weird one for me.  Technically any time you're skating anything not specifically designed for it you're committing vandalism.  Whether it be waxing a ledge, wheel marks, rails, etc.  Skating a rail basically does the same damage as rolling up and scraping the paint off with a screwdriver.  I never really thought about this when I was younger, but now sometimes when I'm skating a spot I'll think, "Damn, I'm just rolling up on some guy's bench at his business and fucking it up."  That said, skating's rad so fuck it. 

[Useful Idiot]

That building looks like it was built to house lunatics in the 1870s. Respect.

[LOU.502]

that video made me feel a lil sick to the stomach

[ginzberg]

1) Since when is a case being settled out of court referred to as winning in court? It's not winning or losing. It's withdrawing the case. It is definitely a moral victory, but the article somewhat implies that this will be on record as a win in court.

2) Regarding the whole lawsuit in general, this documentary changed my perspective quite a bit: http://www.hotcoffeethemovie.com/Default.asp

[TwisT]

http://espn.go.com/action/skateboarding/blog/_/post/7475656/skateboarders-win-civil-suit-portland

espn is getting better and better when it comes to online content...

but the interview says that they just ran, and chalked situation up to the game until lawyers approached them...

[cdubble]

Im friends with baca and i know for a fact that they didn't sue them to just win money. The lawyer that approached them was a mom who has two young kids who skate who baca had taught. she wanted to go to court for them so shit like this wouldn't happen to her kids when they happened to go out skating. Yes I understand that they were skating on private property and i know for sure that they wouldn't sue if the guy just pushed him around they eventually ran away but the guy took a god damn skateboard and hit him over the head thats excessive force and not how security guards are trained, and thats why they sued.

and Sluggers your going to tell me if some security guy took your skateboard and clocked you over the head and you had to go to the hospital because you were just skateboarding you wouldn't try to sue him to cover your medical expenses and what not?

PS. part of that espn interview is wrong the guy didn't quit the next day he went back to work the next week and then continued to work there for another year and half still without having the proper licensing to be a security guard. And the company that runs the security guards have a problem with hiring "qualified" security guards.

[Chavo]

Im friends with baca and i know for a fact that they didn't sue them to just win money. The lawyer that approached them was a mom who has two young kids who skate who baca had taught. she wanted to go to court for them so shit like this wouldn't happen to her kids when they happened to go out skating. Yes I understand that they were skating on private property and i know for sure that they wouldn't sue if the guy just pushed him around they eventually ran away but the guy took a god damn skateboard and hit him over the head thats excessive force and not how security guards are trained, and thats why they sued.

If they sued on principle, then they wouldn't have accepted a $1.3 million out-of-court settlement, opting to finish the trial instead. According the the Portland Mercury article, Baca bumped into the first guard, then admitted to swinging his board and hitting the camera when another guard took his picture. That was probably the main reason the guards were initially cleared and gave enough doubt for Baca and friends to flee instead of call the cops (clearly, if breaking the code of not suing wasn't an issue, then calling the police wouldn't be out of the question either). The Mercury article also recalls the guard-was-mean issue.

[Money Black]

only in america,  people sue way too much over there

[sprayTAN101]

would love to see this happen to a street league multi millionaire. lawsuit-fuck-yeah!

[Prison Wallet]

the problem with these kids sueing is that this is the type of shit that will make companies with plazas or skateable stuff at their buildings go more out of the way to keep people from skating, corporate america would rather level or put a fence around an area with skateable stuff than deal with a lawsuit. They 'll step the skatestopping game up to the point where no level of creativity will get around it, or it will end up like the federal building in San Diego where security meets you at the building when they see you walk up. It's true people need to stand up for their rights but this does nothing to help skateboarding, companies will definately run the numbers, "it cost us 1.3 million on a lawsuit, how much will a fence and 24 hour securty at the fence opening cost us? or we just fill the plaza with grass" if that 's cheaper than what they feel they can get sued for they'll do it.

Huh? So it'd be cheaper for companies to redesign plazas and retro fit with skate stoppers rather than just comply with laws they already have to? Dumbfuck security are the liability, not just skateboarders. If companies don't adjust security practices those same dumbfucks could get aggressive with taggers, bmxers, extreme walkers, pan handlers, whoever.

Training security that if you lay a hand on anyone you'll be immediately terminated and can be held criminally and civilly liable is the economical fix.  

[jay]

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the problem with these kids sueing is that this is the type of shit that will make companies with plazas or skateable stuff at their buildings go more out of the way to keep people from skating, corporate america would rather level or put a fence around an area with skateable stuff than deal with a lawsuit. They 'll step the skatestopping game up to the point where no level of creativity will get around it, or it will end up like the federal building in San Diego where security meets you at the building when they see you walk up. It's true people need to stand up for their rights but this does nothing to help skateboarding, companies will definately run the numbers, "it cost us 1.3 million on a lawsuit, how much will a fence and 24 hour securty at the fence opening cost us? or we just fill the plaza with grass" if that 's cheaper than what they feel they can get sued for they'll do it.

[close]

Huh? So it'd be cheaper for companies to redesign plazas and retro fit with skate stoppers rather than just comply with laws they already have to? Dumbfuck security are the liability, not just skateboarders. If companies don't adjust security practices those same dumbfucks could get aggressive with taggers, bmxers, extreme walkers, pan handlers, whoever.

Training security that if you lay a hand on anyone you'll be immediately terminated and can be held criminally and civilly liable is the economical fix.  

What good is a security officer who is only allowed to ask people to leave?

[cdubble]

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Im friends with baca and i know for a fact that they didn't sue them to just win money. The lawyer that approached them was a mom who has two young kids who skate who baca had taught. she wanted to go to court for them so shit like this wouldn't happen to her kids when they happened to go out skating. Yes I understand that they were skating on private property and i know for sure that they wouldn't sue if the guy just pushed him around they eventually ran away but the guy took a god damn skateboard and hit him over the head thats excessive force and not how security guards are trained, and thats why they sued.

[close]

If they sued on principle, then they wouldn't have accepted a $1.3 million out-of-court settlement, opting to finish the trial instead. According the the Portland Mercury article, Baca bumped into the first guard, then admitted to swinging his board and hitting the camera when another guard took his picture. That was probably the main reason the guards were initially cleared and gave enough doubt for Baca and friends to flee instead of call the cops (clearly, if breaking the code of not suing wasn't an issue, then calling the police wouldn't be out of the question either). The Mercury article also recalls the guard-was-mean issue.

i don't know where the 1.3 mil came from but thats not what they settled for I know that for a fact. I know they were trying to sue for that but thats not what they settled out of court for.

[Prison Wallet]

What good is a security officer who is only allowed to ask people to leave?

I think they're supposed to be a deterrent mostly.

In the US aren't they pretty much only allowed to ask people to leave and call the police if they don't? Maybe pepper spray someone if they get assaulted.

[bakingsoda]

i dunno, no matter who started this or who was how much of a prick whatsoever, i'm just not sure about sueing other people in general, for whatever reason.
unless it's necessary. i would not be able to stand up again if that guard had hit my head with full force.
but this guy stands up in a second.
 maybe he's a badass and used to it, or the guard didn't even hit him full speed.
just sayin, it might be possible.
 it's fine with me to fight with him, it's fine with me to make him loose his lousy job, but sueing him/the company for over a million dollars?
i guess this has to be an american thing, they always want to sue each other.
things might be different when a lawyer sees the footage, and is all like "listen boy you could make a lot of money from this... just say yes you have to do nothing sit back and relax...."
 maybe then i'd change my mind but until that day i'd say sueing people for a million dollar, for a punch that didn't even knock anybody out is highly questionable.

nonetheless rentacops suck as you all know.

Well it would be the company, not the indivual who would pay. You actually have a moral delam with someone making a dent in the finaces of a stupid security company?

On another not didn't Satva Leng and some others take some San Fran police to court in the 90's and win because of some exsesive force used at the China banks? I'm not clear on the story but it that's the case then that's rad.

[TMKF]

If you knowingly skate on private property then you should expect to be roughed up from time to time.

That they sued and won is just going to make it harder on other skaters the world over.

Expect to get roughed up? It looked like they were on a public sidewalk when the assault took place, there is not way a sidewalk that close to the street is private property. Also a security guard is not the allowed to assault anyone unless in self defense, obviously they won so it wasn't self defense. The owner of the property has every right to sue the skateboarders for destruction of property but I doubt they would have sufficient evidence to prove it was them who did the damage.

I say good for them, I would like to see much more police officers being sued because their abuse of power is much worse on average than security guards.

[jay]

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What good is a security officer who is only allowed to ask people to leave?

[close]

I think they're supposed to be a deterrent mostly.

In the US aren't they pretty much only allowed to ask people to leave and call the police if they don't? Maybe pepper spray someone if they get assaulted.

Well, apparently, according to wikipedia, security officers have the same powers of arrest "as a private citizen, called a "private person" arrest, "any person" arrest, or "citizen's arrest" (in the U.S.).  Some states allow citizen's arrest if they have personally witnessed the offense occuring. 

If I hired security to make sure my private property stayed intact, I would assume that my security officers would be able to do their job, not necessarily to bust skulls but at least have the ability to restrain or arrest.     

[sluggers]

These guys are pussies no doubt about it.

You don't sue because you got into a small altercation with a rent-a-cop on someone else's property, and you sure as hell don't allow them to grab your board and hit you with it. LMFAO.

Skateboarding has a code of honor and they crossed one of the cardinal rules.

[Prison Wallet]

Between you talking about a code of conduct and cardinal rules and that other guy talking about wikipedia and citizen arrests this thread's feeling like the 7th grade.

[pica]

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i dunno, no matter who started this or who was how much of a prick whatsoever, i'm just not sure about sueing other people in general, for whatever reason.
unless it's necessary. i would not be able to stand up again if that guard had hit my head with full force.
but this guy stands up in a second.
 maybe he's a badass and used to it, or the guard didn't even hit him full speed.
just sayin, it might be possible.
 it's fine with me to fight with him, it's fine with me to make him loose his lousy job, but sueing him/the company for over a million dollars?
i guess this has to be an american thing, they always want to sue each other.
things might be different when a lawyer sees the footage, and is all like "listen boy you could make a lot of money from this... just say yes you have to do nothing sit back and relax...."
 maybe then i'd change my mind but until that day i'd say sueing people for a million dollar, for a punch that didn't even knock anybody out is highly questionable.

nonetheless rentacops suck as you all know.

[close]

Well it would be the company, not the indivual who would pay. You actually have a moral delam with someone making a dent in the finaces of a stupid security company?

On another not didn't Satva Leng and some others take some San Fran police to court in the 90's and win because of some exsesive force used at the China banks? I'm not clear on the story but it that's the case then that's rad.

i have a moral delam with sueing anyone just for the money. this wasn't about right or wrong, just about earning money. people in america sue for any stupid reason, thinking it's their legal right, but in fact they abuse the law to make profit.

[sluggers]

Between you talking about a code of conduct and cardinal rules and that other guy talking about wikipedia and citizen arrests this thread's feeling like the 7th grade.

Yes, 7th grade is exactly about the time if you are a real skater you learn that you don't sue if you are skating on private property and you never sue if you hurt yourself skating any property public or private.

Skate at your own risk.

[MostlyLurkin']

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i dunno, no matter who started this or who was how much of a prick whatsoever, i'm just not sure about sueing other people in general, for whatever reason.
unless it's necessary. i would not be able to stand up again if that guard had hit my head with full force.
but this guy stands up in a second.
 maybe he's a badass and used to it, or the guard didn't even hit him full speed.
just sayin, it might be possible.
 it's fine with me to fight with him, it's fine with me to make him loose his lousy job, but sueing him/the company for over a million dollars?
i guess this has to be an american thing, they always want to sue each other.
things might be different when a lawyer sees the footage, and is all like "listen boy you could make a lot of money from this... just say yes you have to do nothing sit back and relax...."
 maybe then i'd change my mind but until that day i'd say sueing people for a million dollar, for a punch that didn't even knock anybody out is highly questionable.

nonetheless rentacops suck as you all know.

[close]

Well it would be the company, not the indivual who would pay. You actually have a moral delam with someone making a dent in the finaces of a stupid security company?

On another not didn't Satva Leng and some others take some San Fran police to court in the 90's and win because of some exsesive force used at the China banks? I'm not clear on the story but it that's the case then that's rad.

[close]

i have a moral delam with sueing anyone just for the money. this wasn't about right or wrong, just about earning money. people in america sue for any stupid reason, thinking it's their legal right, but in fact they abuse the law to make profit.

Fuck, I love your country

[finknoos]

only in murica,  people sue way too much over there

[pica]

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i dunno, no matter who started this or who was how much of a prick whatsoever, i'm just not sure about sueing other people in general, for whatever reason.
unless it's necessary. i would not be able to stand up again if that guard had hit my head with full force.
but this guy stands up in a second.
 maybe he's a badass and used to it, or the guard didn't even hit him full speed.
just sayin, it might be possible.
 it's fine with me to fight with him, it's fine with me to make him loose his lousy job, but sueing him/the company for over a million dollars?
i guess this has to be an american thing, they always want to sue each other.
things might be different when a lawyer sees the footage, and is all like "listen boy you could make a lot of money from this... just say yes you have to do nothing sit back and relax...."
 maybe then i'd change my mind but until that day i'd say sueing people for a million dollar, for a punch that didn't even knock anybody out is highly questionable.

nonetheless rentacops suck as you all know.

[close]

Well it would be the company, not the indivual who would pay. You actually have a moral delam with someone making a dent in the finaces of a stupid security company?

On another not didn't Satva Leng and some others take some San Fran police to court in the 90's and win because of some exsesive force used at the China banks? I'm not clear on the story but it that's the case then that's rad.

[close]

i have a moral delam with sueing anyone just for the money. this wasn't about right or wrong, just about earning money. people in america sue for any stupid reason, thinking it's their legal right, but in fact they abuse the law to make profit.

[close]

Fuck, I love your country

you love MY country?
well i certainly don't.

[jrf]

Private property is property. Every skater knows they skate at their own risk.

You don't sue for a stupid altercation with rent-a-cops just like you never sue if you get hurt.

pioneer square is a public place not private property) and they have always had schmuck security guards. good for bacca and clyde. bacca did the right thing, he got attacked and he fought back, resulting into an unfair fight of 2 security guards beating up a pretty little dude.

[sluggers]

Baca is a fucking pussy.

Man up, bro.

How long were you there before the security guards told you to leave?
We had been there for about ten minutes or so. After two or three rushed tries, the first security guard came up and told me to get the hell out of there. The security guard was being a jerk from the beginning -- he started to make fun of me right from the start.

HAha, douche bag.