Author Topic: Thinking about joining the armed forces (Read 13003 times)

Wall of Nausea · « **Reply #60 on:** March 03, 2012, 07:52:00 PM »

Quote from: Skate Troll on March 03, 2012, 10:56:47 AM

The answer is simple kill everyone all over the planet all at once problem solved.

Including all the artist's that work on your jerk off batman rags.

layzieyez · « **Reply #61 on:** March 03, 2012, 08:58:25 PM »

Fighting for my country? Did none of you read the part where I told you that I'm a photojournalist?

My job is to promote the positive achievements of the navy and document the navy's story.

I have never nor have I any desire to be boots on ground (which is the main reason I joined the navy instead of the army or marines). The closest I have come to military death is talking with purple heart recipients who tell me about their friends turning into pink mist after stepping on an anti-tank mine or hospital corpsmen getting grade 3 concussions from IEDs while still trying to patch together everyone else hit by the same IED.

Also, I have photographed autopsies and dead fetuses for my country.

Before this current job, I was the single handed computer support for three large detachments covering the news (print, radio or video) from the persian gulf to the west coast (the largest area of responsibility in all of the navy's fleets).

Before that, I single handed provided logistic support for all media operations aboard the 7th fleet flag ship.

Not everyone in the military has a job to go kill people. If you think that, then you really are pretty ignorant.

kilgore. · « **Reply #62 on:** March 03, 2012, 09:29:38 PM »

KILL EM' ALL, LET GOD SORT EM' OUT.

weedpop · « **Reply #63 on:** March 03, 2012, 10:04:23 PM »

Quote from: layzieyez on March 03, 2012, 08:58:25 PM

Not everyone in the military has a job to go kill people. If you think that, then you really are pretty ignorant.

I don't think anyone actually accused you of killing people. By the same token though, not everyone in the military is a photojournalist or intelligence operator. Anyway, there's no need to be so defensive, you don't have to justify what you do to anyone on here.

brycickle · « **Reply #64 on:** March 04, 2012, 12:43:22 AM »

Do what I'm doing and become a fire fighter instead.

aWizard · « **Reply #65 on:** March 04, 2012, 04:35:09 AM »

Quote from: weedpop on March 03, 2012, 10:04:23 PM

Quote from: layzieyez on March 03, 2012, 08:58:25 PM
Expand Quote

Not everyone in the military has a job to go kill people. If you think that, then you really are pretty ignorant.
[close]

I don't think anyone actually accused you of killing people. By the same token though, not everyone in the military is a photojournalist or intelligence operator. Anyway, there's no need to be so defensive, you don't have to justify what you do to anyone on here.

Don't say there's no need to be defensive, when there are people in this thread saying "go die for oil".

Quote from: brycickle on March 04, 2012, 12:43:22 AM

Do what I'm doing and become a fire fighter instead.

The military has fire fighters too....

Sleazy · « **Reply #66 on:** March 04, 2012, 05:53:39 AM »

gipper, good point about germany and other similar demilitarized countries but there's still no getting rid of war. surely you see that being a history teacher. my point is simply don't blame the troups for the shitty causes, it's not their doing. and my follow up point was that people join for lots of reasons and that getting to kill people is probably not most peoples primary motivator and infact is probably what most people dread the most outside of dying in action. there's just way too many people painting it like combat is actually something people enjoy.

weedpop, your last post makes me think i may have overstated my position and that we are closer aligned than we both originally though. my whole posting in this thread started after someone posted a die for oil suckers DK poster. that just seems harsh to me, especially knowing that people like hate post here.

frisco · « **Reply #67 on:** March 04, 2012, 06:08:09 AM »

*Mandatory slightly relevant movie gif*

layzieyez · « **Reply #68 on:** March 04, 2012, 06:48:24 AM »

Quote from: HATE! on March 04, 2012, 05:46:13 AM

Quote from: aWizard on March 04, 2012, 04:35:09 AM
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The military has fire fighters too....
[close]

They actually don't anymore, or if they do they are extremely limited in capacity. They've all gone to civilian dudes- even in deployed areas.

Navy still does. They are called damage controlmen, but every shipboard sailor is required to know and qualify in basic firefighting skills.

aWizard · « **Reply #69 on:** March 04, 2012, 07:35:39 AM »

Air Force still has firefighters as far as I know.

Kab · « **Reply #70 on:** March 04, 2012, 07:38:12 AM »

Some awesome points made in this thread.

Anyone who's thinking of enlisting should read this short book by General Smedley Butler, written shortly before the start of WWII. In fact everyone in this thread should read it as well, and don't assume it's garbage just because you think I'm a dick.

You can see it online here:

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.html

Ronald Wilson Reagan · « **Reply #71 on:** March 04, 2012, 09:21:55 AM »

Quote from: Sleazy on March 04, 2012, 05:53:39 AM

gipper, good point about germany and other similar demilitarized countries but there's still no getting rid of war. surely you see that being a history teacher. my point is simply don't blame the troups for the shitty causes, it's not their doing. and my follow up point was that people join for lots of reasons and that getting to kill people is probably not most peoples primary motivator and infact is probably what most people dread the most outside of dying in action. there's just way too many people painting it like combat is actually something people enjoy.

I'm not saying entirely eliminating war, but as a history teacher what I actually see is that most of the wars the U.S. has been in have been avoidable and we have been the aggressor. Whether or not somebody joins the army to pillage and kill or they join it to get money for college, the Army wants them there so they can pillage and kill, and in the end 99% of it is for profit. In the end, if you know what your army is doing or have the ablity to know what they are doing, then you are responsible for what you do when you join. If you joined the army iin the middle of the Iraq war, you were supporting the Iraq war effort. If somebody decided to join the German army in 1942, I'd say they were Nazi scum, not patriots who didn't get to choose the war.

Kab- I always thought "War is a Racket" was just a speech, but an amazing one. Butler is really interesting too, because right around the time FDR was elected, several corporate leaders tried to organize a fascist coup and tried to enlist Butler as the military leader for the overthrow, but he refused and turned them in. He was in many ways a true patriot, and had a true sense of what war does to this country, and let's remember, this is BEFORE we had permanent war industries, which have made the MI complex so much worse.
Here's Butler's speech:

Here's a thing about the American fascists he helped defeat:

Here's a little food for thought about America as an empire:

Wall of Nausea · « **Reply #72 on:** March 04, 2012, 10:22:14 AM »

Quote from: Ronald Wilson Reagan on March 04, 2012, 09:21:55 AM

Quote from: Sleazy on March 04, 2012, 05:53:39 AM
Expand Quote
gipper, good point about germany and other similar demilitarized countries but there's still no getting rid of war. surely you see that being a history teacher. my point is simply don't blame the troups for the shitty causes, it's not their doing. and my follow up point was that people join for lots of reasons and that getting to kill people is probably not most peoples primary motivator and infact is probably what most people dread the most outside of dying in action. there's just way too many people painting it like combat is actually something people enjoy.
[close]

I'm not saying entirely eliminating war, but as a history teacher what I actually see is that most of the wars the U.S. has been in have been avoidable and we have been the aggressor. Whether or not somebody joins the army to pillage and kill or they join it to get money for college, the Army wants them there so they can pillage and kill, and in the end 99% of it is for profit. In the end, if you know what your army is doing or have the ablity to know what they are doing, then you are responsible for what you do when you join. If you joined the army iin the middle of the Iraq war, you were supporting the Iraq war effort. If somebody decided to join the German army in 1942, I'd say they were Nazi scum, not patriots who didn't get to choose the war.

Kab- I always thought "War is a Racket" was just a speech, but an amazing one. Butler is really interesting too, because right around the time FDR was elected, several corporate leaders tried to organize a fascist coup and tried to enlist Butler as the military leader for the overthrow, but he refused and turned them in. He was in many ways a true patriot, and had a true sense of what war does to this country, and let's remember, this is BEFORE we had permanent war industries, which have made the MI complex so much worse.
Here's Butler's speech:

Here's a thing about the American fascists he helped defeat:

Here's a little food for thought about America as an empire:

Good post.

To OP:

Grandfather did Korea(airforce). Great grandfather did ww2 (airforce). Father was Army. If anything, if you want to join, do so in times of none conflict and you can ease through doing useless tasks like my father, washing a superiors truck in the army for no reason at all be it decoration/command. With so much public funding/options (this is to OP by the way) level your pros and cons. You 're much better playing the social game in union friendly states versus right to work states (south). Be it you are in one. My father garnered skills in tech shit in the late 70's/early 80's which benefited him greatly, but he had to work and strive with competition. He is somewhat of an intelligent individual with a scope of what he wanted for his family versus an abusive military background family. He got on with a company in the banking service industry and was able to sustain us(family).

Anyway, you have vast choice without military intervention. I've worked many minimum wage gigs in the last few years and kept a roof over my head, food in my belly, and clothes on my back. On a minimal paycheck, and just recently decided to go back to school at age 26 and with a job promotion to 25k a year + benefits (jack shit to most, but its all personal best, man) Took some searching and endless bullshit gigs, but there is a light at the end of a tunnel, be it your expectations aren't too high. All I have to say is be ready to work HARD period. Shit isn't landing on your doorstep regardless of prior hardwork. Good luck, man.

brycickle · « **Reply #73 on:** March 04, 2012, 10:56:03 AM »

Quote from: aWizard on March 04, 2012, 07:35:39 AM

Air Force still has firefighters as far as I know.

ARFF. It's pretty much just put out the fire and let the people rescue themselves. You would never send a fire fighter into that level of IDLH. At some point I'll find a place to train and be certified ARFF as well as get my red card to do wildland fire fighting. There are a lot of jobs out there to be had in the field, but competition is stiff.

chockfullofthat · « **Reply #74 on:** March 05, 2012, 12:50:01 PM »

This thread was truly great reading. The gipper always delivers the goods.

Sleazy · « **Reply #75 on:** March 17, 2012, 04:59:50 AM »

Quote from: Ronald Wilson Reagan on March 04, 2012, 09:21:55 AM

Quote from: Sleazy on March 04, 2012, 05:53:39 AM
Expand Quote
gipper, good point about germany and other similar demilitarized countries but there's still no getting rid of war. surely you see that being a history teacher. my point is simply don't blame the troups for the shitty causes, it's not their doing. and my follow up point was that people join for lots of reasons and that getting to kill people is probably not most peoples primary motivator and infact is probably what most people dread the most outside of dying in action. there's just way too many people painting it like combat is actually something people enjoy.
[close]

I'm not saying entirely eliminating war, but as a history teacher what I actually see is that most of the wars the U.S. has been in have been avoidable and we have been the aggressor. Whether or not somebody joins the army to pillage and kill or they join it to get money for college, the Army wants them there so they can pillage and kill, and in the end 99% of it is for profit. In the end, if you know what your army is doing or have the ablity to know what they are doing, then you are responsible for what you do when you join. If you joined the army iin the middle of the Iraq war, you were supporting the Iraq war effort. If somebody decided to join the German army in 1942, I'd say they were Nazi scum, not patriots who didn't get to choose the war.

Kab- I always thought "War is a Racket" was just a speech, but an amazing one. Butler is really interesting too, because right around the time FDR was elected, several corporate leaders tried to organize a fascist coup and tried to enlist Butler as the military leader for the overthrow, but he refused and turned them in. He was in many ways a true patriot, and had a true sense of what war does to this country, and let's remember, this is BEFORE we had permanent war industries, which have made the MI complex so much worse.
Here's Butler's speech:

Here's a thing about the American fascists he helped defeat:

Here's a little food for thought about America as an empire:

fair enough and great post gipper. i still feel differently towards troups that you but definitely respect your position. i'm a big fan of howard zinn and enjoyed that video. i'll probably grab his empire book. i already have his peoples history of the united states. i think if we used books more like these below the college level we might see kids get more interested in history and possibly get a more engaged ellectorate.

brycickle · « **Reply #76 on:** March 17, 2012, 08:58:43 AM »

^^One of my highschool history teachers turned me on to Zinn. Needless to say he was one of the best teachers I had.

brycickle · « **Reply #77 on:** March 17, 2012, 10:03:18 AM »

Yeah, just say fuck it and become Batman!!

Ronald Wilson Reagan · « **Reply #78 on:** March 17, 2012, 10:07:21 AM »

Quote from: Sleazy on March 17, 2012, 04:59:50 AM

Quote from: Ronald Wilson Reagan on March 04, 2012, 09:21:55 AM
Expand Quote
Quote from: Sleazy on March 04, 2012, 05:53:39 AM
Expand Quote
gipper, good point about germany and other similar demilitarized countries but there's still no getting rid of war. surely you see that being a history teacher. my point is simply don't blame the troups for the shitty causes, it's not their doing. and my follow up point was that people join for lots of reasons and that getting to kill people is probably not most peoples primary motivator and infact is probably what most people dread the most outside of dying in action. there's just way too many people painting it like combat is actually something people enjoy.
[close]

I'm not saying entirely eliminating war, but as a history teacher what I actually see is that most of the wars the U.S. has been in have been avoidable and we have been the aggressor. Whether or not somebody joins the army to pillage and kill or they join it to get money for college, the Army wants them there so they can pillage and kill, and in the end 99% of it is for profit. In the end, if you know what your army is doing or have the ablity to know what they are doing, then you are responsible for what you do when you join. If you joined the army iin the middle of the Iraq war, you were supporting the Iraq war effort. If somebody decided to join the German army in 1942, I'd say they were Nazi scum, not patriots who didn't get to choose the war.

Kab- I always thought "War is a Racket" was just a speech, but an amazing one. Butler is really interesting too, because right around the time FDR was elected, several corporate leaders tried to organize a fascist coup and tried to enlist Butler as the military leader for the overthrow, but he refused and turned them in. He was in many ways a true patriot, and had a true sense of what war does to this country, and let's remember, this is BEFORE we had permanent war industries, which have made the MI complex so much worse.
Here's Butler's speech:

Here's a thing about the American fascists he helped defeat:

Here's a little food for thought about America as an empire:

[close]

fair enough and great post gipper. i still feel differently towards troups that you but definitely respect your position. i'm a big fan of howard zinn and enjoyed that video. i'll probably grab his empire book. i already have his peoples history of the united states. i think if we used books more like these below the college level we might see kids get more interested in history and possibly get a more engaged ellectorate.

People's history of American Empire is actually a graphic novel. Its the book most commonly borrowed from me by students. Between the crazy stories and comic book format they love it.

TomTom · « **Reply #79 on:** March 17, 2012, 10:21:23 AM »

Quote from: Kab on March 02, 2012, 01:05:47 PM

Quote from: Sleazy on March 02, 2012, 05:12:54 AM
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Quote from: Pearl on March 02, 2012, 03:08:54 AM
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[close]

pretty harsh. i can see the point there but calling people who make the ultimate sacrifice suckers really shitty. they don't pick the wars, they just fight them and they do are selfless in ways that most civilians aren't capable of.
[close]

You're a fucking idiot if you believe that. Tons of people join the military for completely selfish reasons, and the typical soldier is not some idealist who believes in his country, he's a meathead asshole who likes the feeling of authority, the status it gives him, and is in the military because he has no other options.

Obviously not true of all people, but please remove your head from your ass and spare us the propaganda.

Kab, all your post really piss me off! How old are you?
I grew up in a military Family (my dads a navy pilot, pretty high up) and spent my childhood surrounded by all sorts of military personal.
While stationed in Norway AFNORTH headquarters I met US, Canadian, Scandinavian Soldiers, and you know what? Shit comes in every color, most of those dudes were fucking awesome.
Don't just go around pointing fingers and speaking your mind on things you clearly have no clue about!

Ronald Wilson Reagan · « **Reply #80 on:** March 17, 2012, 10:51:51 AM »

Quote from: TomTom on March 17, 2012, 10:21:23 AM

Quote from: Kab on March 02, 2012, 01:05:47 PM
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Quote from: Sleazy on March 02, 2012, 05:12:54 AM
Expand Quote
Quote from: Pearl on March 02, 2012, 03:08:54 AM
Expand Quote

[close]

pretty harsh. i can see the point there but calling people who make the ultimate sacrifice suckers really shitty. they don't pick the wars, they just fight them and they do are selfless in ways that most civilians aren't capable of.
[close]

You're a fucking idiot if you believe that. Tons of people join the military for completely selfish reasons, and the typical soldier is not some idealist who believes in his country, he's a meathead asshole who likes the feeling of authority, the status it gives him, and is in the military because he has no other options.

Obviously not true of all people, but please remove your head from your ass and spare us the propaganda.
[close]

Kab, all your post really piss me off! How old are you?
I grew up in a military Family (my dads a navy pilot, pretty high up) and spent my childhood surrounded by all sorts of military personal.
While stationed in Norway AFNORTH headquarters I met US, Canadian, Scandinavian Soldiers, and you know what? Shit comes in every color, most of those dudes were fucking awesome.
Don't just go around pointing fingers and speaking your mind on things you clearly have no clue about!

You come off as an asshole. It was probably your upbringing around meathead assholes who like the feeling of authority that makes you feel the need to force people to shut up if you don't agree with them though, so I don't blame you.

Sleazy · « **Reply #81 on:** March 18, 2012, 10:42:15 AM »

feeling of authority??? in the military??? hahaha, it's the most bow down and kiss my ass environment you could possibly work in.

Ronald Wilson Reagan · « **Reply #82 on:** March 18, 2012, 12:01:27 PM »

Are you serious? As soon as you join any armed forces branch they tell you how you are higher than a civillian now, and I consistently get that attitude from them. Also, how about the god-like power many feel when they are able to kill people without repurcussion:
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/afghan-massacre-suspect-staff-sgt-robert-bales-criminal/story?id=15948211
This guy felt like he had the right to go out and kill whoever he wanted... And the fucking press has his back!

Fuck being a killer, no matter who glorifies or defends it.

If you join the armed forces, you are opening yourself up to being a killer of random people, this is not a moral position EVER. You need the money? Get a fucking job like the rest of us.

sprayTAN101 · « **Reply #83 on:** March 18, 2012, 12:07:19 PM »

I firmly believe that people join the military because they lack better options.
Although these options may exist, they may not be available or apparent to everyone.

Hopefully this thread can provide information of some of those options. Give the OP viable options to serving instead of pushing him and others in a similar position further into the dirt.

TomTom · « **Reply #84 on:** March 19, 2012, 12:45:29 AM »

Quote from: Ronald Wilson Reagan on March 17, 2012, 10:51:51 AM

Quote from: TomTom on March 17, 2012, 10:21:23 AM
Expand Quote
Quote from: Kab on March 02, 2012, 01:05:47 PM
Expand Quote
Quote from: Sleazy on March 02, 2012, 05:12:54 AM
Expand Quote
Quote from: Pearl on March 02, 2012, 03:08:54 AM
Expand Quote

[close]

pretty harsh. i can see the point there but calling people who make the ultimate sacrifice suckers really shitty. they don't pick the wars, they just fight them and they do are selfless in ways that most civilians aren't capable of.
[close]

You're a fucking idiot if you believe that. Tons of people join the military for completely selfish reasons, and the typical soldier is not some idealist who believes in his country, he's a meathead asshole who likes the feeling of authority, the status it gives him, and is in the military because he has no other options.

Obviously not true of all people, but please remove your head from your ass and spare us the propaganda.
[close]

Kab, all your post really piss me off! How old are you?
I grew up in a military Family (my dads a navy pilot, pretty high up) and spent my childhood surrounded by all sorts of military personal.
While stationed in Norway AFNORTH headquarters I met US, Canadian, Scandinavian Soldiers, and you know what? Shit comes in every color, most of those dudes were fucking awesome.
Don't just go around pointing fingers and speaking your mind on things you clearly have no clue about!

[close]
You come off as an asshole. It was probably your upbringing around meathead assholes who like the feeling of authority that makes you feel the need to force people to shut up if you don't agree with them though, so I don't blame you.

How is that Gipper?
I was not raised around meatheads, that is my whole point!
My Dad is now one of the leading experts on viking history in Denmark/Northern Germany,how is that for a meathead?
All the dudes I met while affiliated with the army were good people, really good people.
Even the marines ( surprisinlgy enough).
I never joined the army but chose civil service, and all the "meatheads" I was brought up around were really supportive!

All I am saying is that
a) Kab writes stupid shit all the time.
and b) there is no way to say that all soldiers are stupid meatheads.
Hell, I've even met nice cops, or teachers ( imagine that )

But yes I'll give you that one, he didn't say ALL soldiers, he said the majority,...
I just hate these stereotypes.

layzieyez · « **Reply #85 on:** March 19, 2012, 05:54:58 AM »

I definitely had more options with my college degree and my work experience.

The guys I know who throw around weight like they're better than everyone else because of their rank are usually the guys who are stuck in their current rank because of their shitty attitude.

Most high ranking guys I've met including some admirals are pretty cool about it and quite humble about their position because they know the guys who want the rank just to have it are idiots since they know don't know the workload and skills they need to attain it.

I don't know about the other services, but in the navy, we're a pretty polite bunch to civilians (I open doors, say please and thank you or greet people, give directions to people who look lost, etc. on a daily basis) which is pretty crazy with the stereotype of the crude and foul mouthed sailor. I mean we can get that way sometimes at each other, but I know who pays my bills so I don't do anything to sully the uniform I put on. I'm pretty antisocial when I take off my uniform to be honest.

tony volume · « **Reply #86 on:** March 19, 2012, 07:38:14 PM »

Quote from: HATE! on March 19, 2012, 03:36:51 AM

I don't really care if anyone thinks I am a meathead. The whole "better than civilians" ego DOES exist, but I'd say less than half the people I know act like that. Most of the time, it's more like a general acknowledgement that civilian and military experiences are pretty different. The amount of people I've had try to overly break things down to me because they think I am a meathead soldier is pretty tiring. It's always really ironic when I find out they've only been to 6 states and have based all their opinions off one college class that opened their eyes or something.

ive just found this thread...

ive been in the navy 3 years, i made E5 in two years, and this has been hard, but worth it.
im stationed in norfolk, va. on a ship that is a small marine carrier. i met some talented skateboarders who are enlisted, both navy and marine.
we deployed for 9 months last year, from august 2010 to may 2011. we hit only 3 ports.

it was like being stuck at work forever, with long lunch lines, crowded gym, and smoke pit. the friends you make during deployments help out.

tony volume · « **Reply #87 on:** March 19, 2012, 07:40:14 PM »

Quote from: layzieyez on March 19, 2012, 05:54:58 AM

I definitely had more options with my college degree and my work experience.

The guys I know who throw around weight like they're better than everyone else because of their rank are usually the guys who are stuck in their current rank because of their shitty attitude.

Most high ranking guys I've met including some admirals are pretty cool about it and quite humble about their position because they know the guys who want the rank just to have it are idiots since they know don't know the workload and skills they need to attain it.

I don't know about the other services, but in the navy, we're a pretty polite bunch to civilians (I open doors, say please and thank you or greet people, give directions to people who look lost, etc. on a daily basis) which is pretty crazy with the stereotype of the crude and foul mouthed sailor. I mean we can get that way sometimes at each other, but I know who pays my bills so I don't do anything to sully the uniform I put on. I'm pretty antisocial when I take off my uniform to be honest.

agreed!
where you stationed???

gutterhead. · « **Reply #88 on:** March 19, 2012, 10:23:16 PM »

SOOOOO...... after much time mulling it over, I contacted a recruiter today, and have an appointment to stop by her office tomorrow morning.
My main concern right now is getting an instant DQ due to my tattoos, which, needless to say, i will be fucking pissed if it happens.

layzieyez · « **Reply #89 on:** March 19, 2012, 11:12:47 PM »

I'm in Bremerton, WA. Don't ever go here. Unless you're a shut-in. Worst place to be if you want to skateboard more than a few months out of the year.