Deck geometry knowledge

[weartested]

I know very little about deck geometry, concave and what is influenced by it and was wondering if anybody could share their knowledge.

What consequences does a step/mellow/long/short/narrow/wide tail have?
What role does wheelbase length and overall length play?
What effects does deep/shallow concave have on the behaviour of a skateboad?

All I did so far is picking my decks by width, but lately I had some horrible decks that didn't work for me at all. It seems like I need to pay closer attention to the shape, hope somebody is willing to help me out here, thanks in advance.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

(you already know this is gonna be a helpful one, right?)

well, steeper concave results in "quicker" pop, but for me this just means that most stuff is harder to control. i prefer mellow concave, feels a lot more comfortable.

tail width influences my shove-tricks a lot. if the difference between 2 tails is significant, i have to relearn my 3flips (you know, those knee-high popped ones.)

and if your board is toooo long, chances are that you are an idiot that doesnt know how to ollie and wants to buy clear griptape at the shop.

[Frank]

steep concave: good for transition, your foot sits deeper in the "dish", anything where you have to be kept attached to the board should be easier with steeper concave.

flat concave: usually flips faster/more direct flick, shoves don't flip over that easily and tend to stay horizontal. you also have more surface to slide on.

overall length: personal preference i'd say.

shorter wheelbase: should make it easier to pop the board in a certain direction, i. e. away from you("yo"-flips, ninja catch). manuals are usually easier with a shorter wheelbase, too. trucks might have a tighter turning radius.

longer wheelbase(i. e. 14 1/2-15 inches): better to keep on the ground. makes you more centered. less risk of a mr wilson. turns a bit more sluggish(almost not noticeable, though).

nose: the bigger, the more leverage you have for nollies and likewise popped tricks(fakie).

tail: shorter tails might give you more pop because you have to pop harder to even hit the ground. the board is also steeper in the air during the pop which makes it easier to drag the board up higher with your front foot. longer tails pop off before your pop hits its maximum momentum and the board doesn't come up as steep.

roundness/pointiness of nose and tail: rounder noses/tails have more slide surface and less scoop. pointier noses/tails are the opposite.

in conclusion, a much bigger role imo plays the fact on what kind of board you instantly feel comfortable. creature boards for example i don't find steep at all although most of the team consists of transition rippers. i'd say personal preference plays the biggest role of all in the end. but experimenting with shapes is half the fun in skating(at least if you've been skating half your life).

i wanna try out a polar p3(the squareish shape?) to see the difference.

EDIT:

note that the wheelbase can also be affected by your trucks. if you compare indys with ventures for example, you might notice that the axle on venture trucks lies even more outward in the direction of the nose/tail, thus even extending the wheelbase a little bit compared to indys.

[weartested]

That was exactly what I was looking for, thank you very much Frank and Hercules!

Now that I read this I remember Brian Anderson saying in his Epicly Later'd that he has a "360-flip set up" with a more squareish tail, right...?

I normally ride Alien Workshop decks, I easily had 7-8 in a row, 4 times the same shape. I switched to a shop deck made by dwindle, same width ( and my pop was completely gone. Now that I know this I assume Alien has steeper tails compared to what I currently ride.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

I hear you on Dwindle wood/shape. As much as I love Enjoi I'm not feeling this board, small nose and tail. Back to Toy Machine I go.

damn right. 3rd one in a row, really digging it. until i get my hands on a $lave that fits me, at least.

[Firebert]

steep concave: good for transition, your foot sits deeper in the "dish", anything where you have to be kept attached to the board should be easier with steeper concave.

flat concave: usually flips faster/more direct flick

shorter wheelbase: should make it easier to pop the board in a certain direction, i. e. away from you("yo"-flips, ninja catch). manuals are usually easier with a shorter wheelbase, too.

tail: shorter tails might give you more pop because you have to pop harder to even hit the ground. the board is also steeper in the air during the pop which makes it easier to drag the board up higher with your front foot. longer tails pop off before your pop hits its maximum momentum and the board doesn't come up as steep.

roundness/pointiness of nose and tail: rounder noses/tails have more slide surface and less scoop. pointier noses/tails are the opposite.

Pretty much disagree with all of this.

steep concave: stronger, stays rigid longer, flips faster

flat concave: flips slower, easier to catch flip tricks

shorter wheelbase: tighter turns

longer wheelbase: more stable, wider turn

nose/tail: a longer nose/tail provides more leverage for manuals

[ice nine]

Damn I thought this was about dark geometry, like those fuckin unknown angles

[Frank]

Expand Quote

steep concave: good for transition, your foot sits deeper in the "dish", anything where you have to be kept attached to the board should be easier with steeper concave.

flat concave: usually flips faster/more direct flick

shorter wheelbase: should make it easier to pop the board in a certain direction, i. e. away from you("yo"-flips, ninja catch). manuals are usually easier with a shorter wheelbase, too.

tail: shorter tails might give you more pop because you have to pop harder to even hit the ground. the board is also steeper in the air during the pop which makes it easier to drag the board up higher with your front foot. longer tails pop off before your pop hits its maximum momentum and the board doesn't come up as steep.

roundness/pointiness of nose and tail: rounder noses/tails have more slide surface and less scoop. pointier noses/tails are the opposite.

[close]

Pretty much disagree with all of this.

steep concave: stronger, stays rigid longer, flips faster

flat concave: flips slower, easier to catch flip tricks

shorter wheelbase: tighter turns

longer wheelbase: more stable, wider turn

nose/tail: a longer nose/tail provides more leverage for manuals

i don't see where you disagree, but whatever. yeah, right, i wrote flat concave flips faster.  i really meant that a flat concave doesn't corrupt flips or shoves as much as a board with a steep concave. got me there. a flatter board is usually more predictable. also, you just repeated what i said about the wheelbase.

i agree with all other additional info in your post, though. just didn't take that into account.

you could write a book about that shit where 10 skaters talk about their experiences and everyone probably has a different favor for shapes.

 i like steeper boards for flips much more because i like to work with the concave. with flatter boards i feel like when i want to do a kickflip, the flick motion is just not as fluid. it's seems more like drag/kick the board down. but maybe that's just me.

[hesaidwhat?]

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steep concave: good for transition, your foot sits deeper in the "dish", anything where you have to be kept attached to the board should be easier with steeper concave.

flat concave: usually flips faster/more direct flick

shorter wheelbase: should make it easier to pop the board in a certain direction, i. e. away from you("yo"-flips, ninja catch). manuals are usually easier with a shorter wheelbase, too.

tail: shorter tails might give you more pop because you have to pop harder to even hit the ground. the board is also steeper in the air during the pop which makes it easier to drag the board up higher with your front foot. longer tails pop off before your pop hits its maximum momentum and the board doesn't come up as steep.

roundness/pointiness of nose and tail: rounder noses/tails have more slide surface and less scoop. pointier noses/tails are the opposite.

[close]

Pretty much disagree with all of this.

steep concave: stronger, stays rigid longer, flips faster

flat concave: flips slower, easier to catch flip tricks

shorter wheelbase: tighter turns

longer wheelbase: more stable, wider turn

nose/tail: a longer nose/tail provides more leverage for manuals

[close]

i don't see where you disagree, but whatever. yeah, right, i wrote flat concave flips faster.  i really meant that a flat concave doesn't corrupt flips or shoves as much as a board with a steep concave. got me there. a flatter board is usually more predictable. also, you just repeated what i said about the wheelbase.

i agree with all other additional info in your post, though. just didn't take that into account.

you could write a book about that shit where 10 skaters talk about their experiences and everyone probably has a different favor for shapes.

 i like steeper boards for flips much more because i like to work with the concave. with flatter boards i feel like when i want to do a kickflip, the flick motion is just not as fluid. it's seems more like drag/kick the board down. but maybe that's just me.

its not just you, you kinda contradicted yourself a bit as well. alrighty... physics time. from the top-
Concave has no noticeable effect on grip...
Concave does make a deck stronger and stiffer.
Concave does not make a board flip faster, exactly. It makes it easier to flip, yes. you nailed in it the 2nd to last sentence. flat concave makes you work more and kick slightly downwards to make it flip. A steep concave flips itself as long as you flick and are touching the board.

What was first said about wheelbase is nothing like what Firebert said... at all, but its true. wheel base changes turning radius. and short ones make shuvs easier (mannys too i guess) imagine trying a shuv on a long board.

Nose/Tail length- with pop it isn't longer or shorter makes it better. There is a sweet spot somewhere in the middle that changes from person to person depending on how they skate.

The nose tail shape thing is a bit weirder. squareness makes less scoop. being pointy makes it easier for the board to flip when scooped. AKA "more scoop"
now go skate

[Frank]

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steep concave: good for transition, your foot sits deeper in the "dish", anything where you have to be kept attached to the board should be easier with steeper concave.

flat concave: usually flips faster/more direct flick

shorter wheelbase: should make it easier to pop the board in a certain direction, i. e. away from you("yo"-flips, ninja catch). manuals are usually easier with a shorter wheelbase, too.

tail: shorter tails might give you more pop because you have to pop harder to even hit the ground. the board is also steeper in the air during the pop which makes it easier to drag the board up higher with your front foot. longer tails pop off before your pop hits its maximum momentum and the board doesn't come up as steep.

roundness/pointiness of nose and tail: rounder noses/tails have more slide surface and less scoop. pointier noses/tails are the opposite.

[close]

Pretty much disagree with all of this.

steep concave: stronger, stays rigid longer, flips faster

flat concave: flips slower, easier to catch flip tricks

shorter wheelbase: tighter turns

longer wheelbase: more stable, wider turn

nose/tail: a longer nose/tail provides more leverage for manuals

[close]

i don't see where you disagree, but whatever. yeah, right, i wrote flat concave flips faster.  i really meant that a flat concave doesn't corrupt flips or shoves as much as a board with a steep concave. got me there. a flatter board is usually more predictable. also, you just repeated what i said about the wheelbase.

i agree with all other additional info in your post, though. just didn't take that into account.

you could write a book about that shit where 10 skaters talk about their experiences and everyone probably has a different favor for shapes.

 i like steeper boards for flips much more because i like to work with the concave. with flatter boards i feel like when i want to do a kickflip, the flick motion is just not as fluid. it's seems more like drag/kick the board down. but maybe that's just me.

[close]

its not just you, you kinda contradicted yourself a bit as well. alrighty... physics time. from the top-
Concave has no noticeable effect on grip...
Concave does make a deck stronger and stiffer.
Concave does not make a board flip faster, exactly. It makes it easier to flip, yes. you nailed in it the 2nd to last sentence. flat concave makes you work more and kick slightly downwards to make it flip. A steep concave flips itself as long as you flick and are touching the board.

What was first said about wheelbase is nothing like what Firebert said... at all, but its true. wheel base changes turning radius. and short ones make shuvs easier (mannys too i guess) imagine trying a shuv on a long board.

Nose/Tail length- with pop it isn't longer or shorter makes it better. There is a sweet spot somewhere in the middle that changes from person to person depending on how they skate.

The nose tail shape thing is a bit weirder. squareness makes less scoop. being pointy makes it easier for the board to flip when scooped. AKA "more scoop"
now go skate

/thread

[svilleantigo]

I hear you on Dwindle wood/shape. As much as I love Enjoi I'm not feeling this board, small nose and tail. Back to Toy Machine I go.

Yup. felt like a kid skating an overly razortailed walmart deck.

also, for what it's worth, my favorite shapes over the last few years have been generally DLX (except for one krooked pricepoint) or pennswood. nice balance between comfort and comically-concaved.