North Korea testing nuclear weapons & targeting USA

[weedpop]

Ya, America "won" the Vietnam war like they're "winning" the war in Afghanistan. Go in with ideas of nation-building then realize it's going to be too costly/difficult/unpopular to get the job done fully, then hand over the responsibilities for rooting out the enemy to local authorities who lack the will, training and equipment to do so. Eventually they make an attempt at some sort of dignified retreat while leaving a power vacuum in the country that'll probably get filled by the guys they were trying to get rid of in the first place or someone equally as shitty. Hopefully they won't have to evacuate the embassy with helicopters this time.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

[Riverside]

North Koreans view their leaders as God.  Watch some documentaries and witness how brainwashed/instilled with fear they are.  North Korea has concentration camps for citizens that disagree with their beliefs or question anything.  It is really really sad.  I remember watching a docu from national geographic where they imported a doctor to perform 1000 cataract surgeries in 10 days.  They have very limited amounts of food available and ultra-sub par health care.  


If you ever want to appreciate your  life more, read about n korea or watch a vid on them.  That country is FUCKED UP.

the U.S. is not better
"Americans view their leaders as God.  Watch some documentaries and witness how brainwashed/instilled with fear they are.  The US has concentration camps for citizens that disagree with their beliefs or question anything.  It is really really sad.   They have very limited amounts of food available and ultra-sub par health care." 
your country is fucked up to.
do yourself a favor and think a little bit outside the box

[SheepShagger]

Expand Quote

North Koreans view their leaders as God.  Watch some documentaries and witness how brainwashed/instilled with fear they are.  North Korea has concentration camps for citizens that disagree with their beliefs or question anything.  It is really really sad.  I remember watching a docu from national geographic where they imported a doctor to perform 1000 cataract surgeries in 10 days.  They have very limited amounts of food available and ultra-sub par health care.  


If you ever want to appreciate your  life more, read about n korea or watch a vid on them.  That country is FUCKED UP.

[close]

the U.S. is not better
"Americans view their leaders as God.  Watch some documentaries and witness how brainwashed/instilled with fear they are.  The US has concentration camps for citizens that disagree with their beliefs or question anything.  It is really really sad.   They have very limited amounts of food available and ultra-sub par health care." 
your country is fucked up to.
do yourself a favor and think a little bit outside the box

You're right.

[bentmode]

You guys must have forgot about the first Korean War, the war that was 2.5 times shorter than Vietnam but had more American deaths.

[Dontfearthereefer]

well apparently the men in the black pajamas are a worthy fuckin adversary

[steve]

i'm excited to head to south korea in the fall! I hear they pay quite well.

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

Expand Quote

Yeah, one side isn't allowed to give up and then say 'HEY IF WE KEPT PLAYING WE WOULD HAVE WON'

[close]

The USA won the vietnam war, they lost the PR war.

Americans leaving Vietnam with dignity after slaughtering 2.7 million of their citizens:

Expand Quote

North Koreans view their leaders as God.  Watch some documentaries and witness how brainwashed/instilled with fear they are.  North Korea has concentration camps for citizens that disagree with their beliefs or question anything.  It is really really sad.  I remember watching a docu from national geographic where they imported a doctor to perform 1000 cataract surgeries in 10 days.  They have very limited amounts of food available and ultra-sub par health care. 


If you ever want to appreciate your  life more, read about n korea or watch a vid on them.  That country is FUCKED UP.

[close]

the U.S. is not better
"Americans view their leaders as God.  Watch some documentaries and witness how brainwashed/instilled with fear they are.  The US has concentration camps for citizens that disagree with their beliefs or question anything.  It is really really sad.   They have very limited amounts of food available and ultra-sub par health care." 
your country is fucked up to.
do yourself a favor and think a little bit outside the box

This is awesome. I love when people who don't know what the fuck they are talking about tell others to think outside the box. I don't jerk off to an American flag every night, but last time I went to a grocery store it had plenty of food available, unless you count not getting twinkies as a famine, and I'm pretty sure we don't have gulags in the U.S.

We do imprison more people here than they do there though

[oyolar]

I think we all know that no Twinkies is a textbook example of a famine.

[sexualhelon]

So the guys over-exaggerating about "famine" and "gulags" in the states but....



Explain these charts and the phenomena that is mass incarceration the states to me? There's the three strikes law in California, getting thrown in jail for letting petty fines build up, and I just recently read one case about a 65 year old guy nearly getting incarcerated for not being up to date on his fucking Orchid paperwork - he was suspected of smuggling the flowers into America, an offence under the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species. The stormed his house, took him to jail, asked questions later. It was eventually sorted but I mean...what. the. living. fuck.

To throw a conspiracy theory out there, if I recall correctly the statistic is that the states spends roughly $40,000 a year on each prisoner. Now, I personally find that bit hard to believe even though they get fed - not the best food, free healthcare - probably not the best either, and a guaranteed roof over their head - obviously not the roof you'd choose - it still seems a bit much to me. Oh wait, prisoner's in the states get free healthcare but citizens don't? I guess that's a fair way to divvy up taxes. I think it's possible the people pulling strings at the top are using this funding to fuel their own jets.

But yeah, still light years beyond North Korea.

[spungo]

Camp 14 is on Netflix now.  I read the book, "Escape from Camp 14" about a kid born in a camp and escaped through China.  It's pretty crazy, and should be watched/read.

There's a cool docu on Youtube as well where these journalists are on the Chinese side of the river and meet all types of folks crossing into China from the DPRK.  Some of them cross daily smuggling heroin.  Lots of people bring DVDs of chinese soap operas and stuff, but there's some pretty crazy shit in the show. 

One escapee gets her younger sister out and when they meet in Seoul the girl is just freaking out and wants to go back to the DPRK so they let her go back to north korea. 

If anyone has seen these on youtube post them, cause I can't.

[SheepShagger]

So the guys over-exaggerating about "famine" and "gulags" in the states but....



Explain these charts and the phenomena that is mass incarceration the states to me? There's the three strikes law in California, getting thrown in jail for letting petty fines build up, and I just recently read one case about a 65 year old guy nearly getting incarcerated for not being up to date on his fucking Orchid paperwork - he was suspected of smuggling the flowers into America, an offence under the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species. The stormed his house, took him to jail, asked questions later. It was eventually sorted but I mean...what. the. living. fuck.

To throw a conspiracy theory out there, if I recall correctly the statistic is that the states spends roughly $40,000 a year on each prisoner. Now, I personally find that bit hard to believe even though they get fed - not the best food, free healthcare - probably not the best either, and a guaranteed roof over their head - obviously not the roof you'd choose - it still seems a bit much to me. Oh wait, prisoner's in the states get free healthcare but citizens don't? I guess that's a fair way to divvy up taxes. I think it's possible the people pulling strings at the top are using this funding to fuel their own jets.

But yeah, still light years beyond North Korea.

The difference is in North Korea the people they send to gulags are mostly all political prisoners.  Iran and China execute far more people many without trial, than they keep locked up, and more importantly, it's not like the official records of those countries are kept or can be trusted when released. Russia, Brazil, Iran, and China, are among the most corrupt countries in the world at every level of the state. So you could bribe a policeman, judge or warden. Jails in South and Central America are said to have a revolving door if you can pay.

Jail is easy to avoid.

[sexualhelon]

Ah yeah, I get that. The thing is that when people talk about how backwards the States are in their ways/ideals I don't think anyone is exactly drawing the comparison to China, Iran, North Korea, etc... countries along those lines. It's rather with countries of the title "first world country" so you have to compare the States with countries like Canada, Australia, and countries in Western Europe which is when you step back and say "ummm yeah, what the fuck's going on here?"

On quoting statistics and charts though, I'm a fan of Mark Twain's quote, "There are lies, damned lies and statistics."

[SheepShagger]

Ah yeah, I get that. The thing is that when people talk about how backwards the States are in their ways/ideals I don't think anyone is exactly drawing the comparison to China, Iran, North Korea, etc... countries along those lines. It's rather with countries of the title "first world country" so you have to compare the States with countries like Canada, Australia, and countries in Western Europe which is when you step back and say "ummm yeah, what the fuck's going on here?"

On quoting statistics and charts though, I'm a fan of Mark Twain's quote, "There are lies, damned lies and statistics."

The US has more people than Canada, Australia, France, UK, and Germany combined. I don't know what the combined rate is for those countries.  It's a combination of laws and population. 2,266,800 adults were incarcerated in U.S. federal and state prisons, and county jails at year-end 2010 ? about 0.7% of adults in the U.S. resident population.  I'd say that's nothing, and a reflection on how safe the country is for it's size, and how efficient the system is. No matter how you look at the numbers less than 1% is a small number.  

What is a satisfying amount of prisoners? 0, 100, 1 000 000.

[The Nose Face]

"History is a pack of lies we play on the dead"  Voltaire

"History is a set of lies agreed upon" Napoleon

I think I saw the Nat Geo N. Korea Documentary being referenced in this thread.

I think one guy got out alive knowing the repercussions from his escape is that the state killed his entire remaining family.

[sexualhelon]

Expand Quote

Ah yeah, I get that. The thing is that when people talk about how backwards the States are in their ways/ideals I don't think anyone is exactly drawing the comparison to China, Iran, North Korea, etc... countries along those lines. It's rather with countries of the title "first world country" so you have to compare the States with countries like Canada, Australia, and countries in Western Europe which is when you step back and say "ummm yeah, what the fuck's going on here?"

On quoting statistics and charts though, I'm a fan of Mark Twain's quote, "There are lies, damned lies and statistics."

[close]

The US has more people than Canada, Australia, France, UK, and Germany combined. I don't know what the combined rate is for those countries.  It's a combination of laws and population. 2,266,800 adults were incarcerated in U.S. federal and state prisons, and county jails at year-end 2010 ? about 0.7% of adults in the U.S. resident population.  I'd say that's nothing, and a reflection on how safe the country is for it's size, and how efficient the system is. No matter how you look at the numbers less than 1% is a small number.  

What is a satisfying amount of prisoners? 0, 100, 1 000 000.

Throwing out the "we have too many people therefore more people must be imprisoned card" doesn't really hold any warrant - it's an easy way out. There are so many factors that go into that - population density by country, by city, by continent, fluctuation taken into account, etc.... Even when looking at cities in terms of population size there's questions to ask and things to take into account such as density, borders, and landmass. Since Beijing is the most populous city in the most populous country can you therefore assume that more people are imprisoned from Beijing over a city of lesser size in equal terms? It sounds ridiculous. Speaking of the states, there's so much space to take into account whereas the European Union/Schengen zone is basically one entity and it's population/density is much larger than the States.

I could post charts but they're easy enough to look up and I can't be bothered. Incarceration in the States is one of the main forms for punishment, rehabilitation, and even the build up of minor offenses. I had a friend get his door kicked in while he was in the shower - didn't hear the knock - and taken in for the massive build up of parking tickets he had. Take a grand look at the system and you'll see it's most certainly not due to it's "efficiency". Whatever the number, the States holds the highest documented incarceration rate in the world and including the combined amount of persons on parole,probation, in prison, and in jail it's over 3%.

Call it what you will, but my little possible conspiracy theory is that people at the top make a shit ton of money off of this. What happens when you break parole, probation, get thrown in jail? There are tickets, fines, and bail to be posted. That money isn't going towards healthcare, education, housing, or fixing the potholes you hit in the road.

[Dontfearthereefer]

one time i got beat up by a cop it sucked

[Mooley]

Throwing out the "we have too many people therefore more people must be imprisoned card" doesn't really hold any warrant - it's an easy way out. There are so many factors that go into that - population density by country, by city, by continent, fluctuation taken into account, etc.... Even when looking at cities in terms of population size there's questions to ask and things to take into account such as density, borders, and landmass. Since Beijing is the most populous city in the most populous country can you therefore assume that more people are imprisoned from Beijing over a city of lesser size in equal terms? It sounds ridiculous. Speaking of the states, there's so much space to take into account whereas the European Union/Schengen zone is basically one entity and it's population/density is much larger than the States.

I could post charts but they're easy enough to look up and I can't be bothered. Incarceration in the States is one of the main forms for punishment, rehabilitation, and even the build up of minor offenses. I had a friend get his door kicked in while he was in the shower - didn't hear the knock - and taken in for the massive build up of parking tickets he had. Take a grand look at the system and you'll see it's most certainly not due to it's "efficiency". Whatever the number, the States holds the highest documented incarceration rate in the world and including the combined amount of persons on parole,probation, in prison, and in jail it's over 3%.

Call it what you will, but my little possible conspiracy theory is that people at the top make a shit ton of money off of this. What happens when you break parole, probation, get thrown in jail? There are tickets, fines, and bail to be posted. That money isn't going towards healthcare, education, housing, or fixing the potholes you hit in the road.

Take a look, the way the system works is pretty fucking shocking. It's a massively long article but it lays a lot of the fundamental problems out. There have also been a number of great exposes about how fucked the for-profit prison system is in the states that use it, but I can't find the one I'm thinking of.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1998/12/the-prison-industrial-complex/304669/

Three decades after the war on crime began, the United States has developed a prison-industrial complex?a set of bureaucratic, political, and economic interests that encourage increased spending on imprisonment, regardless of the actual need. The prison-industrial complex is not a conspiracy, guiding the nation's criminal-justice policy behind closed doors. It is a confluence of special interests that has given prison construction in the United States a seemingly unstoppable momentum. It is composed of politicians, both liberal and conservative, who have used the fear of crime to gain votes; impoverished rural areas where prisons have become a cornerstone of economic development; private companies that regard the roughly $35 billion spent each year on corrections not as a burden on American taxpayers but as a lucrative market; and government officials whose fiefdoms have expanded along with the inmate population. Since 1991 the rate of violent crime in the United States has fallen by about 20 percent, while the number of people in prison or jail has risen by 50 percent. The prison boom has its own inexorable logic. Steven R. Donziger, a young attorney who headed the National Criminal Justice Commission in 1996, explains the thinking: "If crime is going up, then we need to build more prisons; and if crime is going down, it's because we built more prisons?and building even more prisons will therefore drive crime down even lower."

Expand Quote

Ah yeah, I get that. The thing is that when people talk about how backwards the States are in their ways/ideals I don't think anyone is exactly drawing the comparison to China, Iran, North Korea, etc... countries along those lines. It's rather with countries of the title "first world country" so you have to compare the States with countries like Canada, Australia, and countries in Western Europe which is when you step back and say "ummm yeah, what the fuck's going on here?"

On quoting statistics and charts though, I'm a fan of Mark Twain's quote, "There are lies, damned lies and statistics."

[close]

The US has more people than Canada, Australia, France, UK, and Germany combined. I don't know what the combined rate is for those countries.  It's a combination of laws and population. 2,266,800 adults were incarcerated in U.S. federal and state prisons, and county jails at year-end 2010 ? about 0.7% of adults in the U.S. resident population.  I'd say that's nothing, and a reflection on how safe the country is for it's size, and how efficient the system is. No matter how you look at the numbers less than 1% is a small number.  

What is a satisfying amount of prisoners? 0, 100, 1 000 000.

The only efficient thing about the system is its ability to lock up black people and non-violent offenders.

But if you want to ponder the issue I'd give this a read:
http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/atlarge/2012/01/30/120130crat_atlarge_gopnik?currentPage=all


edit: also worth noting that at the time that first article was published, California alone imprisoned more people than France, Great Britain, Germany, Japan, Singapore, and the Netherlands combined.

[SheepShagger]

Expand Quote

Throwing out the "we have too many people therefore more people must be imprisoned card" doesn't really hold any warrant - it's an easy way out. There are so many factors that go into that - population density by country, by city, by continent, fluctuation taken into account, etc.... Even when looking at cities in terms of population size there's questions to ask and things to take into account such as density, borders, and landmass. Since Beijing is the most populous city in the most populous country can you therefore assume that more people are imprisoned from Beijing over a city of lesser size in equal terms? It sounds ridiculous. Speaking of the states, there's so much space to take into account whereas the European Union/Schengen zone is basically one entity and it's population/density is much larger than the States.

I could post charts but they're easy enough to look up and I can't be bothered. Incarceration in the States is one of the main forms for punishment, rehabilitation, and even the build up of minor offenses. I had a friend get his door kicked in while he was in the shower - didn't hear the knock - and taken in for the massive build up of parking tickets he had. Take a grand look at the system and you'll see it's most certainly not due to it's "efficiency". Whatever the number, the States holds the highest documented incarceration rate in the world and including the combined amount of persons on parole,probation, in prison, and in jail it's over 3%.

Call it what you will, but my little possible conspiracy theory is that people at the top make a shit ton of money off of this. What happens when you break parole, probation, get thrown in jail? There are tickets, fines, and bail to be posted. That money isn't going towards healthcare, education, housing, or fixing the potholes you hit in the road.

[close]

Take a look, the way the system works is pretty fucking shocking. It's a massively long article but it lays a lot of the fundamental problems out. There have also been a number of great exposes about how fucked the for-profit prison system is in the states that use it, but I can't find the one I'm thinking of.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1998/12/the-prison-industrial-complex/304669/

Expand Quote

Three decades after the war on crime began, the United States has developed a prison-industrial complex?a set of bureaucratic, political, and economic interests that encourage increased spending on imprisonment, regardless of the actual need. The prison-industrial complex is not a conspiracy, guiding the nation's criminal-justice policy behind closed doors. It is a confluence of special interests that has given prison construction in the United States a seemingly unstoppable momentum. It is composed of politicians, both liberal and conservative, who have used the fear of crime to gain votes; impoverished rural areas where prisons have become a cornerstone of economic development; private companies that regard the roughly $35 billion spent each year on corrections not as a burden on American taxpayers but as a lucrative market; and government officials whose fiefdoms have expanded along with the inmate population. Since 1991 the rate of violent crime in the United States has fallen by about 20 percent, while the number of people in prison or jail has risen by 50 percent. The prison boom has its own inexorable logic. Steven R. Donziger, a young attorney who headed the National Criminal Justice Commission in 1996, explains the thinking: "If crime is going up, then we need to build more prisons; and if crime is going down, it's because we built more prisons?and building even more prisons will therefore drive crime down even lower."

[close]

Expand Quote

Expand Quote

Ah yeah, I get that. The thing is that when people talk about how backwards the States are in their ways/ideals I don't think anyone is exactly drawing the comparison to China, Iran, North Korea, etc... countries along those lines. It's rather with countries of the title "first world country" so you have to compare the States with countries like Canada, Australia, and countries in Western Europe which is when you step back and say "ummm yeah, what the fuck's going on here?"

On quoting statistics and charts though, I'm a fan of Mark Twain's quote, "There are lies, damned lies and statistics."

[close]

The US has more people than Canada, Australia, France, UK, and Germany combined. I don't know what the combined rate is for those countries.  It's a combination of laws and population. 2,266,800 adults were incarcerated in U.S. federal and state prisons, and county jails at year-end 2010 ? about 0.7% of adults in the U.S. resident population.  I'd say that's nothing, and a reflection on how safe the country is for it's size, and how efficient the system is. No matter how you look at the numbers less than 1% is a small number.  

What is a satisfying amount of prisoners? 0, 100, 1 000 000.

[close]

The only efficient thing about the system is its ability to lock up black people and non-violent offenders.

But if you want to ponder the issue I'd give this a read:
http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/atlarge/2012/01/30/120130crat_atlarge_gopnik?currentPage=all


edit: also worth noting that at the time that first article was published, California alone imprisoned more people than France, Great Britain, Germany, Japan, Singapore, and the Netherlands combined.

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. Come on you learn that shit when before you're 10.

Just because a crime is non-violent doesn't mean it's not harmful.  Like I said it's easy to avoid jail, and the majority of people there view themselves as victims of circumstances rather than taking responsibility for their actions.

Singapore has secret police, and you can be imprisoned for life there for simply doing graffiti.  Maybe you'd prefer that kind of society.

[Mooley]

I should have known better than to give you attention.

[sexualhelon]

Ugh, Sheepshagger.... You obviously can't read so there's no point in stressing any further points to you. It's pretty well been covered.

Thanks for the links, Mooley. Interesting articles I hadn't read before.

[SheepShagger]

Ugh, Sheepshagger.... You obviously can't read so there's no point in stressing any further points to you. It's pretty well been covered.

Thanks for the links, Mooley. Interesting articles I hadn't read before.

Cop out. 

I obviously can read, it's just that you can't think of anything better to reply with.

[sexualhelon]

A cop out? Not exactly. If you look at all the aforementioned things in this thread you'd realize there's no need to in depth respond to your so called argument because links,charts, and explanations have already been posted in explanation to the "don't do the time if you can't do the crime" shout. In North Korea Kim Jon-Il made a law that there had to be a photo mural of him in everyone's home and it be kept clean. They could check this at any time and if you say, had a mural but it had dust on it you could be take off to jail. I'm guess your response to someone having an undusted mural would be "Don't do the time if you can't do the time. You've know since birth to keep your mural dusted."

Please tell me the nonviolent crimes you deem worthy of jail sentences. Sure, there are some that could lead to something but parking tickets, having an endanger orchid, and the other at-large reasons some people - shit tons of people in the states actually - weren't harmful and most likely would have never led to anything harmful. Are you going to preach the ill of homosexuality as well? Tell me they're going to spreed the seed of Satan into our children's minds? Because, you know, Sodomy is one of those outdated crimes still listed on the books that religious zealots would tell you is rightfully a crime that should be punished.

Like I said before, Don't throw out the most obscure/harshest reference you can find and compare NYC to somewhere in Nepal. Singapore has harsh laws but if you'd been there before or knew anyone that lived there you'd know they're not exactly throwing people in jail for life due to graffiti and chewing gum out like people think they are. A guy in NYC was actually just arrested and thrown in jail for the night due to eating at a restaurant, ringing up a $200 bill, then realizing he forgot his wallet at home. He tried to give them his iphone for collateral saying he'd be right back but they still called the cops and it ended with him spending the night in jail. They let him go in the morning and told him to go back and pay the bill at the restaurant. If you're looking for those stories you can find them almost anywhere.

[Wall of Nausea]

Time served = monetary amount... hence "debt" to society. It isn't just a figurative form of speech. It's pretty literal.

As for Sexual's conspiracy theory, it isn't one. It's a massive truth, as Mooley showed, there is so much money involved and many fingers in pies continuing this PIC. Same way we do the military industrial complex. We call ourselves civilized, but these truths show that we haven't progressed much in the way of thought since the ancient times in terms of lords and serfdom, greed, and might is right. Exploitation will and always has existed and will continue to no matter what economic system you follow or believe in. Look into privatized prisons, it's the wave of the future, they'll start to undercut union/non union contracts for public works, etc. in certain states with free labor essentially (prediction, not fact) and open a whole new pandora's box of odd fuckery. Equating to even more job losses as time goes on, wait... we'll just hire more prison guards and call it "job growth". The States are sinking and fast, it'll go the way of Rome in due time. It's sad as fuck, but that's what you get with zero accountability for those who HAVE so much and said Have's can't get past their own vanity to do what is right. It's a fuck you pay me system bottom line. Modern existence is a fucking travesty.

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

So the guys over-exaggerating about "famine" and "gulags" in the states but....



Explain these charts and the phenomena that is mass incarceration the states to me? There's the three strikes law in California, getting thrown in jail for letting petty fines build up, and I just recently read one case about a 65 year old guy nearly getting incarcerated for not being up to date on his fucking Orchid paperwork - he was suspected of smuggling the flowers into America, an offence under the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species. The stormed his house, took him to jail, asked questions later. It was eventually sorted but I mean...what. the. living. fuck.

To throw a conspiracy theory out there, if I recall correctly the statistic is that the states spends roughly $40,000 a year on each prisoner. Now, I personally find that bit hard to believe even though they get fed - not the best food, free healthcare - probably not the best either, and a guaranteed roof over their head - obviously not the roof you'd choose - it still seems a bit much to me. Oh wait, prisoner's in the states get free healthcare but citizens don't? I guess that's a fair way to divvy up taxes. I think it's possible the people pulling strings at the top are using this funding to fuel their own jets.

But yeah, still light years beyond North Korea.

The explanation really is as simple as "the prison industrial complex." I feel like we've had pretty enlightening conversations about this in the past on here (believe it or not). Basically there is a whole industry of imprisonment, from the private prisons and services getting contracts to provide for the imprisonment, to the companies that profit off of the slave labor that occurs inside of them (the ban on slavery in the 13th amendment excludes prisons). There's a whole bunch of lobbying on behalf of them, the private prisons sign contracts with the states fining them if they don't keep prisons stocked with enough prisoners- they are a major reason the "war on drugs" has such intense imprisonment.
The reason we have the most prisoners PER CAPITA in the world is because we are the most capitalistic nation on the planet.

[weedpop]

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. Come on you learn that shit when before you're 10.

Massive cop-out.

Singapore has secret police, and you can be imprisoned for life there for simply doing graffiti.  Maybe you'd prefer that kind of society.

False Binary.

Why are you so intellectually lazy on this issue Harry? Oh right, it's because imprisonment is something that happens to "other people" (i.e. lazy blacks with no morals or sense of personal responsibility).

Here's another way to put it for the free-marketeers. What happens when you create massive market incentives to imprison more people while violent crime rates and police funding/enforcement capabilities are dropping or staying constant?

What is the purpose of the prison system int the first place, to make profits or to provide a fundamental social good?

[Wall of Nausea]

Expand Quote

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. Come on you learn that shit when before you're 10.

[close]

Massive cop-out.

Expand Quote

Singapore has secret police, and you can be imprisoned for life there for simply doing graffiti.  Maybe you'd prefer that kind of society.

[close]

False Binary.

Why are you so intellectually lazy on this issue Harry? Oh right, it's because imprisonment is something that happens to "other people" (i.e. lazy blacks with no morals or sense of personal responsibility).

Here's another way to put it for the free-marketeers. What happens when you create massive market incentives to imprison more people while violent crime rates and police funding/enforcement capabilities are dropping or staying constant?

What is the purpose of the prison system int the first place, to make profits or to provide a fundamental social good?

profit, social good changes through generations. it's a major guarantee of time for money. the country sold it's values years ago and now the baby boomer credo resumes " he who has the most toys, wins"

harry crews eats it, dude. forget talking to that clown. he just pisses in the wind and gets it all over himself.

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

Oh and the $40k per year amount per prisoner isn't a conspiracy, and its likely a low ball. You can cross reference it all you want. The fact is though, that $40k/year doesn't really get to the prisoners, it gets to the prison profiteers who then choose how much they think they need to spend. Last I checked California was at about $44k/ prisoner, whereas they were spending about $7500 per student per year. What lovely goals they have for the youth...

[sexualhelon]

Fuck, you guys are on it. I feel like I'd heard this before but not as in depth and don't know why I never tried to read a book on it or ever look into it to far. It's all very enlightening and just makes sense considering the way the USA is set up for everything else.

The rate things have gone and the "trickle" effect of it all is just insane - the way capitalism has allowed for no one person to really be held accountable and then set up the system so that they write the laws or pay the people who do to write them how they want. Why does socialism the way it's set up in Scandinavia or Western Europe seem so horrible to the people below the greed holding them down? In a way it kind of instills the greed in these people themselves - being obsessed with fame and fortune rather than well being. It's almost like the celebrity/money obsessed culture doesn't want things to change because they all envision themselves in that position eventually.

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

Why does socialism the way it's set up in Scandinavia or Western Europe seem so horrible to the people below the greed holding them down? In a way it kind of instills the greed in these people themselves - being obsessed with fame and fortune rather than well being. It's almost like the celebrity/money obsessed culture doesn't want things to change because they all envision themselves in that position eventually.

Just wanted to comment on this last part-
The reason people who are exploited by the intense greed fear Western European socialism because they watch the media that is owned by the people who fear it, and frame it in a negative way.

John Steinbeck had the best quote for your last part- ?Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.?