Author Topic: Marines charged with murdering civilians  (Read 1657 times)

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jonny

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Marines charged with murdering civilians
« on: December 21, 2006, 03:01:22 PM »
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Four Marines have been charged with murder in the 2005 killings of 24 Iraqi civilians, and four of their officers have been charged with failing to investigate and report the deaths, the Marine Corps announced Thursday.

A Marine investigation found initial reports of the killings -- including a press release that blamed the civilian deaths on a roadside bomb -- were "inaccurate and untimely," Marine Col. Stewart Navarre told reporters at Camp Pendleton, California.

"We now know with certainty the press release was incorrect, and that none of the civilians were killed by the IED," Navarre said. (Watch Navarre outline the charges Video)

Staff Sgt. Frank Wuterich, Sgt. Sanick Dela Cruz and Lance Cpls. Justin Sharratt and Stephen Tatum have been charged with unpremeditated murder in the civilian deaths. Wuterich, who led the Marine patrol in Haditha the day of the killings, is also charged with making a false official statement and with trying to get another Marine to make a false statement.

Their battalion commander, Lt. Col. Jeffrey Chessani, "wrongfully failed to accurately report and thoroughly investigate a possible, suspected, or alleged violation of the law of war by Marines under his command," the Marines announced.

Three other officers -- Capt. Randy Stone, Capt. Lucas McConnell and First Lt. Andrew Grayson -- also face charges in the case.

"Our view has been and continues to be that these are combat-related deaths," The Associated Press quoted Sharratt's attorney, Gary Myers, as saying.

The maximum sentence on the charges would be life in prison, said Neal Puckett, an attorney for Wuterich.

Navarre said the suspects would not be jailed or restricted as the military legal process continues, and they would be free to spend the holidays with their families.

He said the timing of the announcement so close to Christmas was coincidental.

"The investigations and the referral of charges have been done as quickly as possible, but no quicker -- no slower, no faster. The intent is to move through the process as quickly as we can, making sure that we take the necessary time to ensure a complete, full, impartial execution of the process."

Wuterich was leading a patrol from Kilo Company of the 3rd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment, through Haditha on November 19, 2005, when the unit was hit by a roadside bomb that killed one of its members. (Map)

The Marines launched an investigation in March into allegations that the detachment went on a rampage after the bombing, killing up to 24 Iraqis. (Read the Time magazine report on Hadithaexternal link)

Wuterich's lawyers have said the sergeant and his men acted properly and there was no massacre of civilians.

According to a Time magazine report, the Marines said they faced threats from the houses where the Iraqi civilians were killed and responded with appropriate force.

Haditha, a city along the Euphrates River northwest of Baghdad, was the target of previous Marine campaigns aimed at rooting out insurgents.

The statement from the Marine Corps that originally blamed the deaths on the roadside bomb triggered a parallel investigation into how commanders handled the incident.

Wuterich also sued anti-war Congressman John Murtha for libel, accusing the Pennsylvania Democrat and former Marine colonel of spreading "false and malicious lies" about him and other Marines in interviews about the attack.

read this and wanted to get your thoughts on it
it's pretty fucked up that we're suppose to be over there protecting these innocent people yet we go and kill them wtf?

What are you lookin' at? You're all a bunch of fuckin' assholes. You know why? You don't have the guts to be what you wanna be. You need people like me. You need people like me so you can point your fuckin' fingers, and say "that's the bad guy." So, what'll that make you? Good? You're not good.

donnie_murdo

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Re: Marines charged with murdering civilians
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2006, 03:20:21 PM »
There's been a lot of stuff on the UK news - Channel 4 to be exact - about American military randomly shooting civlian cars/people they can get away with doing this my "claiming" poeple are a threat.

I mean obviously cars full of women and childern are threating sometimes but to shoot them to shit with a cannon is a little extreme

This is what happens when you mix soliders with boredom, hatered and no fucking idea what they're there for, it's a fucked up situation made worse that no planning was involved in the aftermath situation and now all the moneys "disappeard" pretty interesting stuff
...can't believe this thread brought Donnie Murdo out of the woodwork!

plastic bench nerd

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Re: Marines charged with murdering civilians
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2006, 03:28:02 PM »
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Four Marines have been charged with murder in the 2005 killings of 24 Iraqi civilians, and four of their officers have been charged with failing to investigate and report the deaths, the Marine Corps announced Thursday.

A Marine investigation found initial reports of the killings -- including a press release that blamed the civilian deaths on a roadside bomb -- were "inaccurate and untimely," Marine Col. Stewart Navarre told reporters at Camp Pendleton, California.

"We now know with certainty the press release was incorrect, and that none of the civilians were killed by the IED," Navarre said. (Watch Navarre outline the charges Video)

Staff Sgt. Frank Wuterich, Sgt. Sanick Dela Cruz and Lance Cpls. Justin Sharratt and Stephen Tatum have been charged with unpremeditated murder in the civilian deaths. Wuterich, who led the Marine patrol in Haditha the day of the killings, is also charged with making a false official statement and with trying to get another Marine to make a false statement.

Their battalion commander, Lt. Col. Jeffrey Chessani, "wrongfully failed to accurately report and thoroughly investigate a possible, suspected, or alleged violation of the law of war by Marines under his command," the Marines announced.

Three other officers -- Capt. Randy Stone, Capt. Lucas McConnell and First Lt. Andrew Grayson -- also face charges in the case.

"Our view has been and continues to be that these are combat-related deaths," The Associated Press quoted Sharratt's attorney, Gary Myers, as saying.

The maximum sentence on the charges would be life in prison, said Neal Puckett, an attorney for Wuterich.

Navarre said the suspects would not be jailed or restricted as the military legal process continues, and they would be free to spend the holidays with their families.

He said the timing of the announcement so close to Christmas was coincidental.

"The investigations and the referral of charges have been done as quickly as possible, but no quicker -- no slower, no faster. The intent is to move through the process as quickly as we can, making sure that we take the necessary time to ensure a complete, full, impartial execution of the process."

Wuterich was leading a patrol from Kilo Company of the 3rd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment, through Haditha on November 19, 2005, when the unit was hit by a roadside bomb that killed one of its members. (Map)

The Marines launched an investigation in March into allegations that the detachment went on a rampage after the bombing, killing up to 24 Iraqis. (Read the Time magazine report on Hadithaexternal link)

Wuterich's lawyers have said the sergeant and his men acted properly and there was no massacre of civilians.

According to a Time magazine report, the Marines said they faced threats from the houses where the Iraqi civilians were killed and responded with appropriate force.

Haditha, a city along the Euphrates River northwest of Baghdad, was the target of previous Marine campaigns aimed at rooting out insurgents.

The statement from the Marine Corps that originally blamed the deaths on the roadside bomb triggered a parallel investigation into how commanders handled the incident.

Wuterich also sued anti-war Congressman John Murtha for libel, accusing the Pennsylvania Democrat and former Marine colonel of spreading "false and malicious lies" about him and other Marines in interviews about the attack.

read this and wanted to get your thoughts on it
it's pretty fucked up that we're suppose to be over there protecting these innocent people yet we go and kill them wtf?




whats new, seems that nothing suprises me these days. enough people are dieing from illness and starvation...... and murder just makes me sad.. i wish that the amount of violence in the world would soon diminish.. hopeful thoughts.

Vauxhall

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Re: Marines charged with murdering civilians
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2006, 04:17:43 PM »
There's been news like this for a couple years now. You shouldn't be surprised if you've kept up with some of the news.

jonny

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Re: Marines charged with murdering civilians
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2006, 04:20:58 PM »
There's been news like this for a couple years now. You shouldn't be surprised if you've kept up with some of the news.
yeah but i hadnt seen any of it on the forum so i figured i'd put it on here
and i haven't really kept up with it soo yeah
What are you lookin' at? You're all a bunch of fuckin' assholes. You know why? You don't have the guts to be what you wanna be. You need people like me. You need people like me so you can point your fuckin' fingers, and say "that's the bad guy." So, what'll that make you? Good? You're not good.

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Re: Marines charged with murdering civilians
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2006, 04:24:43 PM »
Yeah its been happening. It will happen more and more as the war continues to go out of control and we keep sending troops in to get killed. Thats what happened in Vietnam.
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isaac

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Re: Marines charged with murdering civilians
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2006, 06:04:43 PM »
'no war for heavy metal!'

sebastian toombs

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Re: Marines charged with murdering civilians
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2006, 06:10:11 PM »
or rap music either

1987

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Re: Marines charged with murdering civilians
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2006, 06:48:04 PM »
Don't you feel good knowing your tax money is being used for ammunition for these guys guns, food for them to eat, and money for them to blow when they get back from that war zone.  Not bad for a high school graduate.  Who knows, maybe some of those guys were some of the people that opted to join the military instead of doing jail time.

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antihero

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Re: Marines charged with murdering civilians
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2006, 07:10:38 PM »
I'm sure being a soldier in Iraq is a pretty stressful situation. If I was there I'd be pretty on edge fearing for my life. Add that to probly seing some pretty horific things and it's no wonder soldier's make mistakes. They're only human. Don't blame them for putting their ass on the line for their country. That's damn heroic. They didn't ask for the war either and most probly disagree with it, which makes what they're doing even more amazing. 

shuvit

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Re: Marines charged with murdering civilians
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2006, 07:58:10 PM »
maybe your dad was a war vet. maybe he never spoke to you much. maybe he never smiled or joked. but at least he supported whatever you did. so you wanted to make your (veteran) dad proud and joined the military.

maybe you have failed at everything you've done. but you tried. i know i tried.

jonny

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Re: Marines charged with murdering civilians
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2006, 08:04:28 PM »
maybe your dad was a war vet. maybe he never spoke to you much. maybe he never smiled or joked. but at least he supported whatever you did. so you wanted to make your (veteran) dad proud and joined the military.

maybe you have failed at everything you've done. but you tried. i know i tried.

how was it???
What are you lookin' at? You're all a bunch of fuckin' assholes. You know why? You don't have the guts to be what you wanna be. You need people like me. You need people like me so you can point your fuckin' fingers, and say "that's the bad guy." So, what'll that make you? Good? You're not good.

shuvit

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Re: Marines charged with murdering civilians
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2006, 08:13:36 PM »
look at me now.

jonny

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Re: Marines charged with murdering civilians
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2006, 08:18:00 PM »
look at me now.


oh okay
nvm sorry bout that
What are you lookin' at? You're all a bunch of fuckin' assholes. You know why? You don't have the guts to be what you wanna be. You need people like me. You need people like me so you can point your fuckin' fingers, and say "that's the bad guy." So, what'll that make you? Good? You're not good.

E.l.G

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Re: Marines charged with murdering civilians
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2006, 08:33:16 PM »
I'm sure being a soldier in Iraq is a pretty stressful situation. If I was there I'd be pretty on edge fearing for my life. Add that to probly seing some pretty horific things and it's no wonder soldier's make mistakes. They're only human. Don't blame them for putting their ass on the line for their country. That's damn heroic. They didn't ask for the war either and most probly disagree with it, which makes what they're doing even more amazing. 

I don't know if you've heard any specifics about this, but accident simply doesn't cover it. Also, don't try to label this war as a "patriotic act" or anything in any way benefitting the country. I'm all for supporting the troops but that's just disrespectful.

shuvit

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Re: Marines charged with murdering civilians
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2006, 08:38:38 PM »
okay please understand. a specific soldier or marine does what he is told. he respects and Trusts what he is told to do.

dont blame the faithful guy. he is just doing what he is told. and he will do Anything he is told by superiors.

politics suck! the only people who enjoy politics are the guys above drafting age!

E.l.G

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Re: Marines charged with murdering civilians
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2006, 09:33:44 PM »
I completely understand that but I believe that basic human conscience should come before orders at some point. In this particualar case I'm pretty sure that they weren't given direct orders to go in and shoot everything in sight, nor would it make it any less of an unjust action.

shuvit

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Re: Marines charged with murdering civilians
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2006, 09:43:03 PM »
i have read everything about this from the beginning. a lot is being left out. but certainly these are your countrymen. its just these Marines friends are bein killed. in the service these are your best friends bein killed. they are the guys you slept beside in the barracks every night they are the guys you would live or die for. when friends like these die you have nothing else to live for.

jonny

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Re: Marines charged with murdering civilians
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2006, 10:11:48 PM »
i have read everything about this from the beginning. a lot is being left out. but certainly these are your countrymen. its just these Marines friends are bein killed. in the service these are your best friends bein killed. they are the guys you slept beside in the barracks every night they are the guys you would live or die for. when friends like these die you have nothing else to live for.

what's your point???
What are you lookin' at? You're all a bunch of fuckin' assholes. You know why? You don't have the guts to be what you wanna be. You need people like me. You need people like me so you can point your fuckin' fingers, and say "that's the bad guy." So, what'll that make you? Good? You're not good.

shuvit

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Re: Marines charged with murdering civilians
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2006, 10:29:21 PM »
either you get it or you dont. someday you will. or maybe someday your children or grandchildren will...


Chris McCracken

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Re: Marines charged with murdering civilians
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2006, 10:49:08 PM »
Remember they havn't been found guilty yet.

We took out Saddam in the earlier stages, coincidence that the other two powers in the "Axis of Evil" are now a serious threat, but Iraq isn't?

Sleazy

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Re: Marines charged with murdering civilians
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2006, 08:57:37 AM »
I really think that people need to be able to separate the politics from the troops.

The politics of the war are without a doubt bad.

The heroics of the troops is unquestionable. Misguided, most definitely but also undeniable.

I think that Jarhead did a good job of addressing some of these issues.

Abuse of the locals by our troops happens in every war, I think it's more important how we handle it when it happens. It's just a one of the many natural elements of war that makes it such a horrible thing that should only be done as a last resort and definitely shouldn't be done for politics or greed.

It's actually amazing to me how many people don't think about the realities of war until after they happen. If more people thought about these things when we were discussing going to war maybe we wouldn't be in this mess. My poly sci teacher said that every generation will have their war and sadly it seems that he may be right.

And don't think for one second that if you had your friends body blow all over you by some bomb that was set off by some Iraq's that you wouldn't want get revenge. Killing is no big deal for these guys, they kill innocent people all the time but as long as it's part of a mission it's OK.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2006, 09:01:26 AM by Sleazy »

Ronald Wilson Reagan

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Re: Marines charged with murdering civilians
« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2006, 11:54:51 AM »
maybe your dad was a war vet. maybe he never spoke to you much. maybe he never smiled or joked. but at least he supported whatever you did. so you wanted to make your (veteran) dad proud and joined the military.

maybe you have failed at everything you've done. but you tried. i know i tried.
Are you admitting you tried to join the military and they wouldn't let you?!? Do you know how reatrded or fucked up that makes you? They have been lowering standards left and right to try to maintain troop levels, but apparently they looked at you and thought "We're not THAT desperate."

Wow.
Sleazy, you brought up some good shit. I am family friends with an Old Colonel in some armed force. HIs last name is Sanders, which makes it ever more hillarious (add it up...), but he said the U.S. military will intentionally have some sort of invasion/military exercise about once every decade to show its power. Sometimes its like Panama, where heavy metal music wins it, sometimes its Iraq or Vietnam, where we are fucked. Point is, the U.S. military will never allow for to long of a peaceful period.
The biggest sinners in your catergory of people who don't think about what will happen until it is too late are the Architects of this war. SPECIFICALLY George Bush and Donald Rumsfeld, who need to either be executed by the governement or lynched by the people at this point.
The only people who think being against the war and against the troops are the same thing are the blind patriots who will always support putting America's youth in harms way.
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Sleazy

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Re: Marines charged with murdering civilians
« Reply #23 on: December 23, 2006, 05:56:25 AM »
I worked with a guy who was in pannama and he told me stories about filling the backs of those big trucks that carry dirt with bodies of panamainians. According to him their were quite a few casualties. I had also only herd about the rock music but apparently things got pretty bloody down their. Either that or this guy I talked to was a complete looney but he seemed pretty down to earth.

Turkey your right, there is a core in America that will always go along with any war the goverment suggest and if you are over 25 and anti-war you become a tofu eating, hyppie, stonner, libearl in the eyes of most. At a harrasment meeting at my job, the HR lady went off on this long tangent about how it wasn't even OK to bash the french around the time we went to war. I pointed out that

"Isn't the real problem expressing your political beliefs at work?"

she replied

"Well this was right before we went to war and everyone was mad at the french and everyone was talking abou it..."

and the real kick to the balls was that this lady was french and still didn't see the bigger picture.

How the fuck did people get mad at the french for calling out bush on being naked?