Wheels Thread

[Richard Skidder]

Makes sense, I didn't know if the problem of spacers rarely fitting wheels right is because of poor spacer or wheel tolerances. If most cheap spacers are at fault, I can see the race reds working perfectly.

While it's still hard to believe that companies get the spacer size wrong. It must be a lot harder to make precise bearing seats in wheels than making a precise spacer.

It’s incredibly hard to make precise bearing seats in wheels because of the amount shrink as the urethane cures is difficult to account for. Slight variations in temperature and humidity causes the urethane to shrink at different rates even within the same batch. Not to mention the expansion and contraction the finished product can go through during shipping and storage whether it be at the distributor or in the shop case itself.

[commander jameson]

Can someone explain to me what is up with my OJ Wheels + Bronson Beaerings combo, maybe it is because the wheels are very wide?
they are 58mm Natas OJ wheel with Bronson G3 bearings. I used all the spacers and rings in between and outside. I can tighten the nut fully and there is the tiniest bit of play but its absolutely perfect. where normally, this has been my experience in 25 years of skating, when i set up wheels / bearings, i have to back off from tightening the nut fully on because otherwise there is NO play at all and the wheel just cannot spin. whats different about this combo? is it because i have the spacers? or because the wheels are wider? it was both on Indy 159 + Ace 60s i believe the same thing happens (currently its on the Aces i can confirm this happens) not complaining, just interesting

It is because you have spacers in wheels.

[Uncle Flea]

Thank pals. I'm ordering the wheels tonight.

I'm rebuilding my peace chest. Everything I had on ice is gone or in play.

I do appreciate y'all very much and I hope y'all are having a good day

[drinny]

Anyone else chime in on Spitfire F4 97 vs Bones X97’s ?

Which is faster on smooth parks?

Hard to say what I’m looking for.

(I expect both will handle crust as a given.. I went from Keyframes to F4s which is quite a big gap in feel but “close enough” for what I was looking for).

[intendedreceivers]

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I've fit race reds into the 54mm Dragons, the 55mm Spitfire Conical Fulls, Spitfire 52mm classics, and Bones 60mm V5s. They all fit no problem with the nut flush on the axle end(all on Indy trucks). You just have to run without speed rings, which is how they're designed to be used.

[close]

Of course they fit, but do the insides actually touch? Because if they don't, they're just like regular reds. That's what I'm wondering

I don’t believe the the races touch in the middle, at least not on all wheels, but the extra surface area of the larger inner race is what keeps the bearings seated. They don’t have to butt into each other to work. Basically, the longer race makes it harder for the bearings to twist around in the seat. Better execution of the spacer concept. Plus you don’t really need washers. They’re great bearings.

[goodatmeth]

First day on the 52mm dragons:

I measured them before putting them on and all of them were between 51.65 and 51.75 mm. Bones wheels usually come a bit bigger than advertised, so that's kind of weird. My 54mm 103 stf were all around 54.2 mm.

I'm super happy with these, they made my local park fun again. Extremely smooth and fast on terrible ground and I can still do crooked grinds on the worst angle iron ledges without any problems. Of course there's a bit more drag, but it's way better than expected.

[j....soy.....]

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I've fit race reds into the 54mm Dragons, the 55mm Spitfire Conical Fulls, Spitfire 52mm classics, and Bones 60mm V5s. They all fit no problem with the nut flush on the axle end(all on Indy trucks). You just have to run without speed rings, which is how they're designed to be used.

[close]

Of course they fit, but do the insides actually touch? Because if they don't, they're just like regular reds. That's what I'm wondering

[close]

I don’t believe the the races touch in the middle, at least not on all wheels, but the extra surface area of the larger inner race is what keeps the bearings seated. They don’t have to butt into each other to work. Basically, the longer race makes it harder for the bearings to twist around in the seat. Better execution of the spacer concept. Plus you don’t really need washers. They’re great bearings.

I had issues fitting them in properly to spitfires, the cores were inconsistent.  I enjoy this set up also because yeah, it's easier to swap stuff out when all you have is two bearings and an axel nut. 

[elegant_fox]

Just ordered some 60mm Rat Bones in the Dragon formula. Trying these out as an ATV counter part to the 60mm Bones SPF on my 9.05 setup.

Hopefully they won’t be too chonky.

[Sundaynuggets]

Just ordered some 60mm Rat Bones in the Dragon formula. Trying these out as an ATV counter part to the 60mm Bones SPF on my 9.05 setup.

Hopefully they won’t be too chonky.

I’ve been skating those for a couple weeks and they are less chunky than I expected they would be. Not saying they are nimble, but not too bad

[bombsaway86]

One of my buddies was riding some ~54mm dragons at the park the other day. He had no problem getting enough speed to catch some good airs in the big bowl. I’m pretty sold on them after that and will probably get a set when my current crust wheels are done

[elegant_fox]

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Just ordered some 60mm Rat Bones in the Dragon formula. Trying these out as an ATV counter part to the 60mm Bones SPF on my 9.05 setup.

Hopefully they won’t be too chonky.

[close]

I’ve been skating those for a couple weeks and they are less chunky than I expected they would be. Not saying they are nimble, but not too bad

That's great to hear, I think after trying 5+ sets of Spitfire wheels over the past year, I can say they don't really work for me. Bones SPF is faster in the bowls and while F4 is nice on glassy pristine street spots, it's just too hard for 90% of my street riding.

It's a shame, since I just picked up some of the multi-color Evan Smith 55mm conical fulls in the little wood box. 2 sessions later I was back on Dragons.

[drinny]

Anyone else chime in on Spitfire F4 97 vs Bones X97’s ?

Which is faster on smooth parks?

Hard to say what I’m looking for.

(I expect both will handle crust as a given.. I went from Keyframes to F4s which is quite a big gap in feel but “close enough” for what I was looking for).

or even F4 97 vs. Dragons (I think Ben Degros did this comparison maybe)

[Sundaynuggets]

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Just ordered some 60mm Rat Bones in the Dragon formula. Trying these out as an ATV counter part to the 60mm Bones SPF on my 9.05 setup.

Hopefully they won’t be too chonky.

[close]

I’ve been skating those for a couple weeks and they are less chunky than I expected they would be. Not saying they are nimble, but not too bad

[close]

That's great to hear, I think after trying 5+ sets of Spitfire wheels over the past year, I can say they don't really work for me. Bones SPF is faster in the bowls and while F4 is nice on glassy pristine street spots, it's just too hard for 90% of my street riding.

It's a shame, since I just picked up some of the multi-color Evan Smith 55mm conical fulls in the little wood box. 2 sessions later I was back on Dragons.

Yeah, I spend the majority of my time skating through the city and stopping from spot to spot so I would carry cruiser wheels and f4 and switch off depending on where is was. Dragons have been a nice middle ground so I don’t have to lug extra stuff around

[Bruiser603]

Anyone else chime in on Spitfire F4 97 vs Bones X97’s ?

Which is faster on smooth parks?

Hard to say what I’m looking for.

(I expect both will handle crust as a given.. I went from Keyframes to F4s which is quite a big gap in feel but “close enough” for what I was looking for).

For smooth parks, the Formula Fours are faster in my experience.  I'm probably way over thinking this, but the X formula's have a higher rebound and a bit more 'give' than the spitfires.  I think the 'give' is great for absorption of impact and rougher surfaces, but the double edge is a minor loss of speed after an impact or pumping.  Is it crazy noticeable to me?  Naw.  I think they are both awesome wheels.

[yourbreakfsat]

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Anyone else chime in on Spitfire F4 97 vs Bones X97’s ?

Which is faster on smooth parks?

Hard to say what I’m looking for.

(I expect both will handle crust as a given.. I went from Keyframes to F4s which is quite a big gap in feel but “close enough” for what I was looking for).

[close]

or even F4 97 vs. Dragons (I think Ben Degros did this comparison maybe)

F4 97 vs Dragons:

They both serve different purposes and one doesn't outperform the other; it depends on your needs.

F4 97s feel like a more forgiving F4 99. There's less vibration and it feels smoother on rougher grounds. However the differences can feel marginal to some people. I think you'll find a bigger difference with the wider shapes (conical full, radial full, etc) since they can push through rough ground way better than the classic shape. I wouldn't use this wheel as a cruiser wheel though, it's not designed for that but it's for those that like F4s but want something slightly softer for rough terrain.

Dragons are what wheels companies have been trying to perfect for years: a soft/hard wheel hybrid. Biggest difference between them and something like a Ricta Cloud is that Dragons have a traditional hard wheel slide while the others have a very grippy soft wheel slide that can be difficult to overcome. For Dragons, they still feel like a hard wheel but there's a lot less vibration and you'll roll for longer compared to a traditional hard wheel. You can definitely use these for a cruiser board, but personally I would still use a softer wheel for that (~78a).

Dragons do have downsides though. Some people have said they have had drag when doing ledge tricks which made them go back to F4s; personally I haven't have this problem. Dragons are very limited in sizes, shapes, and graphics. A few of my friends have also complained that the wheels are way to quiet and they prefer the loud noises hard wheels produce.

For smooth parks, they're both great and fast. I honestly didn't find too much of a difference between them. I want to say the Dragons gripped a bit better than the F4 97s especially when going fast or coming back down from an air, but I can't say for sure.

Personally here's how I would choose:

If you find yourself spending most of your skating in the few same places, don't want to dwell too far from Spitfire and familiarity, and skate crust here and there, go with F4 97s.

If you find yourself pushing everywhere and constantly having to walk though rough areas because your current wheels can't roll though them, don't have a cruiser board, or wanted to look into a hybrid wheel, go with Dragons.

Or flip a coin :v

[roll_dog]

Do Dragons make other wheels in the in-between 86a-92a range like keyframes obsolete/pointless?

[Uncle Flea]

Just ordered some 60mm Rat Bones in the Dragon formula. Trying these out as an ATV counter part to the 60mm Bones SPF on my 9.05 setup.

Hopefully they won’t be too chonky.

I tried them on a polarizer. So sick. Probably my second favorite wheel I've never owned. Not as big as I remember them to be. I feel like the shrunk them down a little for a past reissue perhaps for this drop? I remember them being bigger and that probably why the street Bones/rat bone 2 shapes happened.


If you don't like those 60s I'd definitely recommend 58. They're thinner than my Mullen v2 in 54mm by what looks like 4mm or so. Slide almost too good at times. I'm very stoked to have them though next time I'm going bigger and wider. Probably going to roll forever though.
 I put 20-25 miles on them and still seeing a faint trace of the tread on one wheel. I burn like an average of 10mm of f4 a year. Treads should be long gone.

Testament to this killer 100% street product? Idk yet but Who would have thought Powell would do that? Make an everlasting street product. Especially since their riders are nearly always in the parks filming YouTube on harder formulas.

Thank you Powell

[Hypnotoad]

Does anyone else have a hard time with F4 because they look gross?  I’ve historically been bothered by nasty old yellow wheels, and f4 kinda look that way from the get go.

[Lee Ralphs Dear Old Mum]

No. I love the potato brown/ yellowish color of F4s.
 It is actually closer to natural urethane. The more off white, the better the wheel (in my mind). I can't stand bright white wheels.

[FuzzGNU]

Anyone else chime in on Spitfire F4 97 vs Bones X97’s ?

Which is faster on smooth parks?

Hard to say what I’m looking for.

(I expect both will handle crust as a given.. I went from Keyframes to F4s which is quite a big gap in feel but “close enough” for what I was looking for).

I haven't ridden them yet, but I've ridden Dragons which are the same formula but softer (they feel like ~97a to me when riding).

Compared to F4 97a...

Personally I found Dragons grip better on slick black top (but still slide), and slide better on every type of ground. It's crazy how well they slide on chunky ground. For what it's worth, I've slid out on F4 97a numerous times.

Dragons were also notably faster on pretty much every terrain, especially smooth ground. In terms of speed, Dragons feel like a 99a F4 on smooth ground, while F4 97a felt very sluggish to me. The lack of speed and ground slide killed F4 97a for me.

I think the F4 97a might have been slightly smoother of a ride, but its a toss up. F4 97a roll up/over cracks a little smoother and maintain speed in that way better. But overall on every surface dragons were faster for me.

They both bulldoze through pebbles. It's pretty awesome skating through a rocky alley and hearing pebbles spray against the walls on both sides of you. Was really impressed by both wheels in that regard. If you're going fast enough you probably won't eat shit due to a pebble.

I've heard people have weirdly different experiences than me with both of them... But for me it's night and day, Dragons take the cake.

I haven't ridden the Bones 97a... But I'm sure they're fine. Probably faster, but not as good for crusty cruising. If you live somewhere really crusty I would start with Dragons, get used to the slide for a week or two, and try something else if you really don't like it. Took me a solid week or two to adjust but it was worth it.

I've grown to appreciate the extra grip that keeps you from sliding out. I can really lean into reverts and such without worrying about going too far. You have to exert a bit more power, but you can be a bit more lazy overall and not really worry about slipping out as much.

Like others have said, its a bit sticky for grinds, but that is the only glaring downside. I don't have many grind spots around me, so I can't comment on that except for it definitely makes a squeaky friction sound if you crosslock a 50-50 and pinch it together. Definitely slows you down.

[manysnakes]

Do Dragons make other wheels in the in-between 86a-92a range like keyframes obsolete/pointless?

I have the Dragons and OJ Mini Juice, and the OJs are definitely much more “fun”, in the “let’s get weird with it” sense of things. Dragons do let me skate some crusty spots, but the soft wheels let me glide over all kinds of fun shit. I haven’t had the Dragons on a deck in six months but I take the Minis out with my almost every time I skate.

[69woodpusher69]

i hit the ol ebay when i was high as fuck last week and i completely forgot for some reason in my marijuana stupor that i ordered 63mm 99a spitfire big heads. i dont have a setup for these but thought they looked bad ass, what should i build up to throw these babies on?

[LebowskisRug]

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Do Dragons make other wheels in the in-between 86a-92a range like keyframes obsolete/pointless?

[close]

I have the Dragons and OJ Mini Juice, and the OJs are definitely much more “fun”, in the “let’s get weird with it” sense of things. Dragons do let me skate some crusty spots, but the soft wheels let me glide over all kinds of fun shit. I haven’t had the Dragons on a deck in six months but I take the Minis out with my almost every time I skate.

I have a Grimple Mini Beach Bum on Ace 00's with 54 Mini Juice and it is the fastest, scariest board I've owned in a ridiculously fun way. I always think I'm about to die and I refuse to adjust the trucks. There is a street near me that always has pebbles in the bike lane and when I'm skating to the store I can hear the wheels flick the pebbles into the street.

[Gray Imp Sausage Metal]

Does anyone else have a hard time with F4 because they look gross?  I’ve historically been bothered by nasty old yellow wheels, and f4 kinda look that way from the get go.

wheels that are too white look really weird/ unnatural to me, then again I love loopholes which basically turn the color of dirty rootbeer after a few sessions

[drinny]

What’s the Powell equivalent to a 54mm conical full in this formula?

How are they on transition?

Fucks sake... gear madness, probably don’t need another wheel man

[Mbrimson88]

Does anyone else have a hard time with F4 because they look gross?  I’ve historically been bothered by nasty old yellow wheels, and f4 kinda look that way from the get go.

From a shop perspective, any decent brand wheel that has been sitting under UV lights for a while (even Bones wheels) ended up with some discolouration which was more pronounced in packets where some of the wheel was showing and some was not.

Most of those wheels couldn't be sold, or people didn't want them, but quite a few guys (myself included) often found they skated better than the bright new ones, both feeling more consistent and having fewer issues, so I tend to go more for those wheels anyway, the belief being that as the urethane cures, it gets better with age.

I do understand what you are saying, as well as what others are saying too, some knowing they will skate better, or other people not wanting "potatoes" or "onions" as they have called them.

Given a lot of the cheaper wheels are now way more common in the bright white colour and have issues with flatspots, bad performance on some surfaces and whatever else, I can also see why people don't want the bright white any more, but Bones going from what seemed like really good urethane compounds in white, to something in a weird mix and dirty colour seemed like more a mistake than anything else.

Spitfire though, specifically Formula Four, does have the ups and downs with the colour, some sets being way lighter and some way darker of what ever natural is these days.  That might also have something to do with how long they have been sitting under shop lights or whatever too, but the newer ones coming out more recently don't seem half as dark as some others from a while back.

[intendedreceivers]

Do Dragons make other wheels in the in-between 86a-92a range like keyframes obsolete/pointless?

I stand by my original review that they’re like Keyframes you can slide a little. We’ve had weeks of rain, so I haven’t been able to take the X97s out to compare, but yeah, the Dragons are a much more versatile and fun Keyframe to me.

[FuzzGNU]

What’s the Powell equivalent to a 54mm conical full in this formula?

How are they on transition?

Fucks sake... gear madness, probably don’t need another wheel man

V6 54mm. Haven't seriously skated transition with them.

[drinny]

Thanks :0) can’t find v6 in 54 anywhere though... not sure it’s an option.

I hate slim wheels so think I might need to wait, or look at some v4 in person :/

Or just stick with what I got rarr

[minilogoflow]

Thanks :0) can’t find v6 in 54 anywhere though... not sure it’s an option.

I hate slim wheels so think I might need to wait, or look at some v4 in person :/

Or just stick with what I got rarr

The Dragons only come in 56mm V6, the X Formula have a 54mm V6.