Refugee crisis in Europe.

[Monty Burns]

Hans Rosling which you guys , and swedish media has been quite quiet since the politicians decided to close the borders . When the media and politicians are changing direction they have decided they dont want him anymore

heres one of his tweets


"With present flow of 90% male refugee children to Sweden, the Swedish Teen Sex Ratio
will in 4 months be like in China: 120 boys/100 girls."

https://twitter.com/hansrosling/status/669678035654852608

Is this one of those beneficial things about taking in all these refugees  you guys were  talking  about

[Tufty]

Your mom has a different opinion  

No need to explain why this is some Nazi bullshit. And the comments are horrifying. The ignorance and the cliche racist comments make me sick.

[Monty Burns]

Your mom has a different opinion  

No need to explain why this is some Nazi bullshit. And the comments are horrifying. The ignorance and the cliche racist comments make me sick.

Ive talked to my mom about this refugee crisis and while she feels empathy with the refugees she doesn not think its a good idea to deal with it like the swedish / EU governments have done . I also asked if she talked to some greek guy the past few days and she said no . So unless you want to call her a liar , I guess this another example of how you bend the facts , lie and have no good arguments without resulting to insults . 

Is that how you got taught how to debate in greece ? insults and " mom " jokes ?


I guess this is why you call Hans Rosling a nazi . Accusations based on no reality . Hes been one of the most outspoken ones on media , benefits and talking to government that we should take in the refugees .

He is a  Swedish medical doctor, academic, statistician and public speaker . So Im guessing when he was looking at the STATISTICS
you know since he is a  statistician  . I guess theres where he looked at the STATISTICS and found that he was correct

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Rosling

[Tufty]

First of all if he is a scientist he should post a study with facts and his views. Not some provocative statement to stimulate the racist shit stains.  

Secondly I dont know the man. If I was a serious and renowned scientist I wouldnt use social media. Because misunderstandings can happen very easily and I would definately not want this for my career.

Thirdly the statistics dont say that you are a piece of shit if someone is a hungry refugee and you care about not spoiling your ass. Especially when your allies created this mess and are obliged to solve it.

Fourth male immigrants are the ones who search for job and house and then they bring their family if they make it.

Five thats how I debate with crypto-fascists and xenophobes.

Sixth I doubt that the data are valid, but even if they are explain to me why is that such a big disaster (if it is not temporary as I mentioned) when the proper natural ratio is 1.05 and the sexual ethics are free.

[Monty Burns]

Heres a Swedish Article

http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/grupp-av-man-hotade-valdta-kvinna/

Since most of you dont read Swedish ill translate and paraphrase it . 30 men in a refugee center tried to attack a woman and her son. They threatend to rape the woman and kill the son . The reason was that they thought it it was a crime that she was without a husband / alone in Sweden .

You might say this is only 30 of all of them , you might say its a isolated event . But every day you see more and more articles and news reports about incidents with violence and complaints . I asked in another post , who exactly are we bringing into Sweden / Europe

People who want to rape a woman and kill her son cause she doesnt have a husband with her .

You call me a crypto-fascists and a xenophobe . You have no clue about my political alignment

Fourth male immigrants are the ones who search for job and house and then they bring their family if they make it.

That sounds great , Do you really think Europe has homes for all these people and jobs ?  they are sleeping in tents in sweden . The church had to take people in cause they were gonna sleep outdoors for first snow in Sweden . The unemployment rates in Europe
are high , We dont even have jobs for the people who were born in country

So If they find a home after months / years , if they learn the language after months / years . if the get a job after months / years
Then they want to bring their family over too ? starting the cycle over again

[the snake]

what about you two take a room together and violently debate in bed ? we'll call your first born "Truth"or"Shut up", there will be a vote on Slap for it....

just kidding, Pals, very interesting thread

[Tufty]

If after 5 pages you havent understood that my stance is that Europe had to think about it before destabilizing middle east along with the US, I caant do anything. Now they have to solve the problem and in a human way that is equivalent to what they claim as the superior western civilization


To be honest the situation is so bad that can be compared with the start of WWI (which led to WWII after). The way out is only war or socialism. Choose your poison.

[iKobrakai]

Im so sick of both sides. Everyday I hear either old paranoid zenofobia or some feminist moron who refuses to accept the fact that resouces are scarce. Still amazes me that the same fucking arguments arise every time this kind of thing happens.

[KoRnholio8]

who refuses to accept the fact that resouces are scarce.

cheap labor is also a resource and 1st world countries always lack it

[Alan]

Hans Rosling which you guys , and swedish media has been quite quiet since the politicians decided to close the borders . When the media and politicians are changing direction they have decided they dont want him anymore

heres one of his tweets


"With present flow of 90% male refugee children to Sweden, the Swedish Teen Sex Ratio
will in 4 months be like in China: 120 boys/100 girls."

https://twitter.com/hansrosling/status/669678035654852608

Is this one of those beneficial things about taking in all these refugees  you guys were  talking  about

1. Isn't Sweden closing its borders? If it is, the "present flow" is unlikely to continue.
2. If the info in the tweet is correct, do you wonder about why they're mostly male?
3. The group rape thing, does the article say what happened afterwards?
4. Are there any other sources about that story? Expressen is a tabloid, it lives off sensationalism bs, and there will always be suckers who love to be outraged by fabricated stories.
5. When do you think the refugees will destroy the Swedish economy and kick you out of your room? http://www.thelocal.se/20151130/show-of-strength-from-swedish-economy

You have no clue about my political alignment

Oh, I think you've told us plenty.

[Monty Burns]

Ill post some quotes from the "thelocal.se" site you linked

Refugees beg to leave 'inhuman' Malmö shelter

Some 190,000 people are expected to seek asylum in Sweden by the end of the year.

14,000 illegal immigrants disappear without trace

Swedish Prime Minister Stefan Löfven has promised a further 250 million kronor ($28.5m) to fight global warming

The unemployment rate for foreign-born people in Sweden is 21.8 percent

Sweden is one of the worst countries in the OECD at getting immigrants into the labour market. Sweden has the largest gap in employment rates between native-born people and immigrants in the OECD. It is particularly bad at integrating immigrants with low skills.

Its a good thing Sweden is doing so well as it is , cause we are getting fucked over in this crisis . we are giving 250 million to environmental issues and giving 700 million to Turkey to help with the refuge crisis .

5th biggest city in Sweden is Västerås   with  a pop of 107194 , you are basically taking in 2x Västerås . In the US that would be
Philadelphia 1,560,297. Nobody sees a problem with creating 2x  the 5th biggest city in sweden ? All this people need jobs , school,
medical care , day care , hospital and everything ells

If the unemployment rate of foreign people is 20% right now , whats it gonna be like with almost 200000 new people ?

You guys are saying " look at sweden , its not falling appart , its doing good , its rich " But you guys dont live in sweden . Swedes are very good at being views as accepting of all " welcome refugees , we love you "  and then they go and vote for Swedish democrats .
The right is on the rise , Swedish democrats have gone from a less then 1% party to some papers claiming 20% .

You think this is because sweden is doing so great ? and that Sweden love refugees ?

Both swedes and foreigners are saying integration in Sweden is not working , schools are getting worse , unemployment is on the rise
tensions are rising . And your guys answer is . Sweden is fine , take in more refugees


Its funny you claim to know my political lining from 1 topic . You havent asked me about my views on drugs / alcohol , prostitution . Taxes or social programs , my view on the euro or European union . My stance on healthcare or schools / university .
Views on animal rights or environmental issues .


Its just , Monty has strong opinions about the refugee crisis , he is a right wing capitalist nazi and a xenophobe

[Tracer]

Sweden hasn't gotten this much news coverage since the invention of dynamite. All it took was foreigners coming from this:



trying to live like this:



Don't give em a piece of Sweden? They are better off living in tents in Swedish winters than dying in the Middle-East. If shit really hits the fan you can arrest all of them and seize all their belongings. Like what Canada did to the Japanese-Canadians in WW1. It will be interesting to see how Sweden deals with the only adversity they've ever faced. Best thing for Swedes to do is welcome refugees, and integrate them as best as possible. If it goes belly up and Sweden crumbles Europe will deport all 200 000 in some smokescreen. 

[Alan]

You think you are getting fucked over because the government is spending money on global warming? You are such a hardcore lefty!

Also, blaming the refugees for Sweden's racism is basically textbook victim shaming.




Btw, any follow up on the group rape story? I put the text from your link in google translate and could find no mention of rape. Is there another word for rape in Swedish apart from v�ldt�kt?

[DannyDee]

Sweden hasn't gotten this much news coverage since the invention of dynamite. All it took was foreigners coming from this:



trying to live like this:



Don't give em a piece of Sweden? They are better off living in tents in Swedish winters than dying in the Middle-East. If shit really hits the fan you can arrest all of them and seize all their belongings. Like what Canada did to the Japanese-Canadians in WW1. It will be interesting to see how Sweden deals with the only adversity they've ever faced. Best thing for Swedes to do is welcome refugees, and integrate them as best as possible. If it goes belly up and Sweden crumbles Europe will deport all 200 000 in some smokescreen. 

WWII

[Monty Burns]

You think you are getting fucked over because the government is spending money on global warming? You are such a hardcore lefty!

Oh calm down Alan , take a deep breath  .the context was that we just had to spend a lot of money . The reason we can spend alot on environmental issuses is that we give a damn about it . The more we have to spend on issues like the refugee
crisis is money we could have spent otherwise . like more to the environment , more to schools , infrastructure

These are the guys I vote for ,  MiljoPartiet . Ive voted for them in all elections since I turned 18

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Party_%28Sweden%29

Also, blaming the refugees for Sweden's racism is basically textbook victim shaming.

Dude , Sweden is just racist cause Sweden is racist , I have Swedish born foreigners friends who tell me they would vote for
Swedish democrats . Its the swedish way to talk shit when the cameras are not there . You should see us on public
transportation , or when swedes stand by the door , looking out of the peephole to make sure no neighbors are there
when we want to leave the house

Latest poles had the Swedish Democrats at almost 20% . Do you really think thats healthy numbers Alan ?

Btw, any follow up on the group rape story? I put the text from your link in google translate and could find no mention of rape. Is there another word for rape in Swedish apart from v�ldt�kt?

ya . Rape was brought up 3 times in the article , the other times they refer to it as illegal threats and threatening to murder .

våldta = rape
v�ldt�kt = rape
våldtog = raped
våldtar = raping

The original article was from
http://www.allehanda.se/angermanland/kramfors/mobb-skulle-valdta-kvinna-och-doda-sonen-anmalda-for-olaga-hot

Which is a local new agency from that area . They did a follow up

http://www.allehanda.se/angermanland/kramfors/efter-dods-och-valdtaktshoten-nu-flyttas-den-drabbade-familjen-fran-asylboendet-i-nora

Which said the immigration office has made a police report , and they have decided to move the woman and her son to another location.
The family was happy with the decision . And the event is being investigated by the police . Nobody wanted to comment more to the press

I did find another  Immigrant rape story while trying to find the follow up to the one we are talking about now

http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/tva-man-doms-till-fangelse-efter-valdtakt/

2 people are getting prison then getting deported

Rape / sexual assault happens quite often in Sweden . Im trying to find some statistics on how many % are commuted by Men / Women , how many of the victims are Men / Women . And how many % is commited by Swedes / Foreigners . But alot of the sites with information seems kinda sketchy and from right wingish / anti muslim sites

If you know any sites to be trusted about this let me know alan

[Alan]

"Calm down," says the guy with the most alarmist posts in this thread.

Yeah, yeah, I know about rape in Sweden, it was big news in recent years. The slant was anti-foreign...


Dunno, I'd like to resurrect this thread in a year and see how many of your fears came true...

[Tufty]

 Of course there are assholes between refugees. Assholes are everywhere.

How many rapists are there if you randomly take 300.000 white european males? enough to make 3-4 rape incidents in out of control situations? I bet more. There is no rape race, religion or ethnicity, only assholes who use religion, money or power to rape women. And percentages of assholeness in a group of people have to do with education and poverty. Guess who is responsible for that...

[Tufty]

Vive la france, it was about time Europe throws away its mask. Sweden Next?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35025846


 

[Tufty]

No it was finland next

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/finland/12040552/Finland-says-asylum-seekers-should-work-for-free-and-learn-about-womens-rights.html

"It is not necessarily paid work, it could be something outdoors, some maintenance work at the reception centre ... The longer that people are idle, the more frustrated they become," said employment minister Jari Lindstrom"


arbeit macht frei? anyone?

[Monty Burns]

No it was finland next

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/finland/12040552/Finland-says-asylum-seekers-should-work-for-free-and-learn-about-womens-rights.html

"It is not necessarily paid work, it could be something outdoors, some maintenance work at the reception centre ... The longer that people are idle, the more frustrated they become," said employment minister Jari Lindstrom"


arbeit macht frei? anyone?

Maybe more like job training . Something to do instead of just sitting and getting paid to do nothing . You know you should do something more then just be a refugee to get free food , housing and healthcare .  Learn the language  , get involved into society

How long do you suggest tufty they sit and collect aid without giving anything back ?

And 2 of the reasons why Finland is so anti refugee is cause they are pretty racist ( more then sweden )  and


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3343066/Fights-fury-Ku-Klux-Klan-Finland-faces-wave-vigilante-mobs-targeting-migrants-arrest-Afghan-asylum-seeker-rape-14-year-old-schoolgirl-pushes-one-town-brink.html


 

rape of a 14-year-old girl as she walked home on a Monday night a fortnight ago.
The alleged culprit is one of the young men living at a migrant centre, which locals did not want in the first place
It has since emerged that police have arrested a 17-year-old boy at the centre, who is in custody awaiting trial

And

Afghan Ramin Azimi was jailed for life for raping a 17-year-old Finnish girl from Pori and burning her alive

[Tufty]

Unpaid labour is slavery end of story. Even paid labour is slavery but not with today's standards. Refugees AND immigrants should get citizen status and pressure governments for the right to work a decent paid job along with unemployed locals. End of story

[Garth Marenghi]

Expand Quote

Afghan Ramin Azimi was jailed for life for raping a 17-year-old Finnish girl from Pori and burning her alive

[close]

Of Afghan decent but not a recent refugee. They were dating, she broke it off, started seeing someone else and he lost it. Nothing to do with the refugee situation. Check your facts, Monty.

[Monty Burns]

Unpaid labour is slavery end of story. Even paid labour is slavery but not with today's standards. Refugees AND immigrants should get citizen status and pressure governments for the right to work a decent paid job along with unemployed locals. End of story

Tufty , you are so lost that its not even funny . Ive worked for free at a number of restaurants , its part of the culture . I was happy to work there and get experiance , and they were happy to get the extra help and a chef who wanted to learn , work hard , and experience things .

Paid labour is slavery ?  Are you comparing people who work for minimum wage to the african slaves who were SLAVES ( They had no choise ) And got raped , murderd , branded , bread ? .


And the highlighted part is just another statement why you are a super lost kid . What do you even do for a living ? what schooling did you have ? what do you work with ? You think countries have  high unemployment rates because governments just dont feel like
giving people jobs ?

I hope you run into a real freed slave from the Congo or something , somebody who lived with the threat of death if he didnt work hard enough , and hear you complaing about how you were a slave under minimum wage living in europe .

Hey Alan , this is the guy you tend to  agree with . A person who thinks working a regular job is slavery

Of Afghan decent but not a recent refugee. They were dating, she broke it off, started seeing someone else and he lost it. Nothing to do with the refugee situation. Check your facts, Monty.

I never said he was part of this recent refugee insurgence . I said He was part of the rising hate for refugees in a already Racist finland
Are you suggesting his rape and murder of a finish teen is helping the refugee situation ? if so Ill recheck my facts and make a reply

[Garth Marenghi]

Expand Quote

Of Afghan decent but not a recent refugee. They were dating, she broke it off, started seeing someone else and he lost it. Nothing to do with the refugee situation. Check your facts, Monty.

[close]

I never said he was part of this recent refugee insurgence . I said He was part of the rising hate for refugees in a already Racist finland
Are you suggesting his rape and murder of a finish teen is helping the refugee situation ? if so Ill recheck my facts and make a reply

Of course it isn't helping and I'm certainly not claiming otherwise. Still, it isn't as integral incident for the new surge of open racism in Finland as you're making it to be.

I understand personal bias and intuition can be misleading, considering we all tend to live in our own bubbles. It doesn't change the fact that you're consistently pulling stuff out of your arse, the aforementioned crime of passion being just another example of it.

[Monty Burns]

Expand Quote

Expand Quote

Of Afghan decent but not a recent refugee. They were dating, she broke it off, started seeing someone else and he lost it. Nothing to do with the refugee situation. Check your facts, Monty.

[close]

I never said he was part of this recent refugee insurgence . I said He was part of the rising hate for refugees in a already Racist finland
Are you suggesting his rape and murder of a finish teen is helping the refugee situation ? if so Ill recheck my facts and make a reply

[close]

Of course it isn't helping and I'm certainly not claiming otherwise. Still, it isn't as integral incident for the new surge of open racism in Finland as you're making it to be.

I understand personal bias and intuition can be misleading, considering we all tend to live in our own bubbles. It doesn't change the fact that you're consistently pulling stuff out of your arse, the aforementioned crime of passion being just another example of it.

Im not from Finland but I used to live in Finland afew years ago . Its one of the most openly racist places Ive seen . Im not calling all in Finland or everywhere in Finland racist . But I do believe most people who have stayed / lived in Finland would agree

Im not sure how you suggest we are ranking integral incidents in this crisis ?  You say you are not claimng that it hasnt had a huge impact too boost the hatred against refugees , but you also say its just a small insignificant incident ?

I dont really see your point here . First you say Im claiming this guy was part of the new refugees , which I didnt . And when I fire back you say Im right . But then you say Im pulling facts out of my ass again


And if you think Im pulling things out of my arse , please reference the cases and Ill counter argue them . If Im wrong Im wrong .

[Tufty]

Expand Quote

Unpaid labour is slavery end of story. Even paid labour is slavery but not with today's standards. Refugees AND immigrants should get citizen status and pressure governments for the right to work a decent paid job along with unemployed locals. End of story

[close]

Tufty , you are so lost that its not even funny . Ive worked for free at a number of restaurants , its part of the culture . I was happy to work there and get experiance , and they were happy to get the extra help and a chef who wanted to learn , work hard , and experience things .

 Its part of the nowadays stupidity and domination of corporations, that pushed down wages and skyrocketed unemployment or worse unpaid labour. The fact that people that work for free are as proud like you shows the mental degeneration of our generation. I can write a book about why internships and such bullshit are a bad thing.

Paid labour is slavery ?  Are you comparing people who work for minimum wage to the african slaves who were SLAVES ( They had no choise ) And got raped , murderd , branded , bread ? .

I dont see any differnce between slaves who work for food and housing from their masters and nowadays minimum wage people that barely get by to pay just for their debt,housing and food.  I wont get into why you are a slave even if you are paid good since you cant comprehend the basics.

And the highlighted part is just another statement why you are a super lost kid . What do you even do for a living ? what schooling did you have ? what do you work with ? You think countries have  high unemployment rates because governments just dont feel like
giving people jobs ?

I have studied electrical engineering and computer science which is 5 year program here. I am into electronics and I work mostly on embedded systems as a freelancer but I also tutor students at local university, mostly electronics and control theory. I think countries have high unemployment rates because unemployment is not their number one priority, but catering the markets and banks is that. Employment is a right on a socialist system but in a capitalist system its a commodity. Sometimes that commodity is useless to the buyer (but not to society) or has to be devalued to create more profit opportunities. And I have problem when people are seen as commodities.

I hope you run into a real freed slave from the Congo or something , somebody who lived with the threat of death if he didnt work hard enough , and hear you complaing about how you were a slave under minimum wage living in europe .

 The bullshit argument that there are people living worse lives than ours doesnt mean a thing. Actually this statement allows unfinished revolutions and favors the conservatives that are creeping to bring slavery in forms that go unoticed by disillusioned and uneducated people with handful degrees(who are the majority in West) that cant tell when they are being fucked over.


 

[Alan]

Yeah, unpaid work is slavery. It amazes me that some people who are affected by this think it's "part of the culture," but I guess it just goes to show how deep-seated inequality is in our society. Accepting it, for whatever reason, is one thing, but when you think that it is normal, then you have a problem. Tufty already mentioned unpaid internships, and that was my first association as well.

Imagine if all the workers during the industrial revolution were like Monty, e.g. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
We'd all still be going to work after the 2nd or 3rd grade and dying from TB at 18.

[Garth Marenghi]

Expand Quote

Expand Quote

Expand Quote

Of Afghan decent but not a recent refugee. They were dating, she broke it off, started seeing someone else and he lost it. Nothing to do with the refugee situation. Check your facts, Monty.

[close]

I never said he was part of this recent refugee insurgence . I said He was part of the rising hate for refugees in a already Racist finland
Are you suggesting his rape and murder of a finish teen is helping the refugee situation ? if so Ill recheck my facts and make a reply

[close]

Of course it isn't helping and I'm certainly not claiming otherwise. Still, it isn't as integral incident for the new surge of open racism in Finland as you're making it to be.

I understand personal bias and intuition can be misleading, considering we all tend to live in our own bubbles. It doesn't change the fact that you're consistently pulling stuff out of your arse, the aforementioned crime of passion being just another example of it.

[close]

Im not from Finland but I used to live in Finland afew years ago . Its one of the most openly racist places Ive seen . Im not calling all in Finland or everywhere in Finland racist . But I do believe most people who have stayed / lived in Finland would agree

Im not sure how you suggest we are ranking integral incidents in this crisis ?  You say you are not claimng that it hasnt had a huge impact too boost the hatred against refugees , but you also say its just a small insignificant incident ?

I dont really see your point here . First you say Im claiming this guy was part of the new refugees , which I didnt . And when I fire back you say Im right . But then you say Im pulling facts out of my ass again


And if you think Im pulling things out of my arse , please reference the cases and Ill counter argue them . If Im wrong Im wrong .

Saying an incident isn't as integral as you're claiming it to be (assuming that's the reason why you brought it up in the first place?) and agreeing on the matter being hurtful aren't two mutually exclusive things. Requesting you to check the facts was in reference to the link you posted. The article gives the impression that the murder happened in conjunction with the other recent refugee related incidents. Apologies for being so cryptic.

On the other hand there's a few pages of misconstrued information you've been posting that has already been questioned to no avail. No point rehashing it.

I take it you've read the latest news about Sweden prevailing after all:

http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/man-gor-sin-plikt-och-da-far-man-sina-rattigheter-1/
http://www.thelocal.se/20151215/swedish-pm-confident-of-refugee-integration

Rest assured, the crisis will even more likely not affect your personal life whatsoever.

[Esquivel]

There's a rape epidemic in Sweden directly connected to the refugee crisis. These immigrants don't have ethics, you can't just teach them Swedish and suddenly adapt to European culture. No doubt the gov't knew this would happen.

Start having kids again Europe! Why are Euros so afraid to have 8-9 children and a big family? You love your culture so much right?

you either are real fucking regular or just taking the piss

[Esquivel]

Pointing out the truth isn't being insulting or racist. It's not called a "crisis" because the refugees are bringing flowers and plans to build houses for their families.. It's a problem when they kidnap innocent people, rob and gang rape young girls to death. Canada takes more % of immigrants than anyone, but they are smart about it and don't let 200 000 Syrians in per year, that is recipe for disaster, as anyone with common sense knows.

little ignorant piece of shit. the more posts of yours i read the more frustrated i get. its people like you that cause the majority of problems in the whole world. people like you become the next man to decide to bomb whichever little country in the other side of the earth just for some gallons of gas. instead of talking bs on the internet have you considered educating yourself (and mainly your soul) and thinking for solutions other than fearmongering? how about some of the weapons factories that supply everyone with weapons shut down so there are no more guns to fight with? how about the major canadian energy groups stop invading small countries like Greece, Venezuela and Peru to rob them from vital resources such as water and oil (and some non-vital such as gold - with harsh environmental consequences)? I would prefer all the emploees of the above mentioned businesses to lose their fucking jobs than to ever hear of a single bombing in Asia again. How about you chill on being brainwashed by tv for a while and watch some indy documentary on what the fuck is actually happening and WHY it is happening?
Stop suggesting crap like europeans should give more births because Europe is already overpopulated and more births would definitely make things worse. its not a matter of Europe structurally surviving but more like "how are we going to feed all these people" and "how are we going to stop all this bombing in Asia"