Author Topic: Refugee crisis in Europe. (Read 66404 times)

Tufty · « **on:** October 31, 2015, 06:21:56 AM »

Biggest tragedy Europe has faced since WWII. The previous government of Greece built a wall between greek-turkish ground frontiers(EU funded of course) so that immigrants and refugees cant come in Greece and EU. This instead of intimidating desperate people led to the usage of more dangerous routes via the sea which are impossible to be guarded but are far more dangerous. Many Asians take on this trip without knowing how to swim. That is how desperate they are. The result is a big number of refugees end up dead and some of them are being washed up in the shores of greek islands.

Imperialist games of Europe and the US have created this situation and dont take responsibility because they are afraid that their piece of shit system cant handle the immigrants they created with their wars and their planted exploitative governments. Fuck them and their system. Refugees are the back ups we need to destroy their establishment. Open borders is the minimum we should demand.

A video locals made to show the daily situation in their small island.

Refugees dead 30/10/2015

the snake · « **Reply #1 on:** October 31, 2015, 06:33:06 AM »

couldn't watch it till the end, horrible

Monty Burns · « **Reply #2 on:** October 31, 2015, 07:26:52 AM »

If you are against the refuge situation you are branded a racist and islamophobe .

Heres the situation in sweden , medical healthcare is declining , people are over worked , under paid , Swedish students are getting worse and worse , teachers over worked and under paid . We have a higher unemployment rate , we have a shortage in living arrangements .
We have a increasing weird political situation where the far right ( borderline racist) being the third biggest party , maybe second biggest party now . And all sides seem to agree that integration of emigrants in sweden is not working at all

They are saying Sweden is getting almost 200 000 new refuges every year to sweden . Swedens fourth largest city is about 200 k . We are only about 8 or 9 million in sweden . And we are getting 200k new each year . These people need housing , they need food and money . And we need to integrate them , give them swedish lessons , Schooling and a job .

Afew days ago the Swedish Forigne minister was asking the other countries to help out with the refuge situation in sweden cause
we are heading to a collapse structural and financially

Sweden is a glass of water with which already has cracks in it , and is over full . And you want to add more water into it ?
More and more people are supporting our most Right / racist party . People are protesting . Some guys are even burning down
refuge centers. Theres been some incidences in sweden where at High school graduations .Swedish flags were banned cause they were
complaints that they were racist flags ...

Why isnt the neighbor Arab/ Muslim countries taking in these refugees Saudi Arabia is one of the richest coutnries in the world but they seem to say they dont want these refugees since the pose a threat to their country structure . What Asian countries are taking in refuges ? It really blows my mind that Arab / Muslim countries think its too dangerous for their countries economics and structure of politics to accept them , but europen countries should do it

Greece who was in tons of shit with their economy and finances finaly solved it with a new loan , just got hit weeks later with this refuge crises and got fucked over again .

This is some EU breaking up , whole countries getting fucked up situation . I dont really have solution for this beside the Arab / Muslim countries taking in them instead of us .

Alan · « **Reply #3 on:** October 31, 2015, 08:53:14 AM »

Hi, Monty,

Here's a map I found on Google which you might find useful re: neighbouring countries taking in refugees.

As you can see, the vast majority of the refugees have been taken in by them, and there are millions internally displaced. But yes, SA should take some in too, as should other Gulf states.

Here's another map showing how many people applied for asylum in Europe i nthe past 4 years. Sweden has the 2nd highest numbers in Europe, but nowhere near the 200k each year. Yes, the numbers are higher now, but again, not as high as you say.

Also, the US should take in most of the refugees, as it was their foreign policy (yet again) which caused much of what is happening. Europe is already facing the consequences of their complicity.

somethingmustbreaknow · « **Reply #4 on:** October 31, 2015, 10:24:27 AM »

why should saudi arabia take in any refugees? they dont have to and they are an totally autocratic country (-10 on polity IV) and take a shit on human rights and human rights conventions. i rather live in a liberal democracy that values human rights, fulfills the responsibilities coming alongside with it and protect people who had to flee from their country respectively the wars in their countries. assad should have been removed from office already four or five years ago as the arab spring started, to begin with.

Tracer · « **Reply #5 on:** October 31, 2015, 10:58:24 AM »

Europe will eventually be totally Islamic. People just aren't having babies anymore, and Islams outfuck everyone on earth. You can't expect to keep your country by having 1.2 babies per 2 people.. it's going to happen so start breeding or stop complaining.

Monty Burns · « **Reply #6 on:** October 31, 2015, 11:48:56 AM »

Yo Alan !

So the map with Sweden in it says almost 65 thousand Syrian asylum seekers between april 2011 and june 2015 . We both know this number has gone way up in 2015 since the Syrian crisis has gone way way up . I mean if u put the numbers between 2001 and 2005 we would have almost no Syrian asylum seekers .

You also have to take in this is registered asylum seekers , most of the refuges havent even been registered or had the opportunity to seek asylum , they are just in the different countries . And its not only refuges from syria that sweden gets , its from all over the world . So the number is not really correct .

And I guess I formed it wrong or you misunderstood . Im not saying Sweden is the only country who is doing something , other countries are helping out . But from the size of sweden we are doing way too much and its fucking up sweden

Greece had 3000 daily arrivals a day . How are they supposed to deal with this ?

Im not gonna trust that Libya number , Libya isnt really even a country anymore its torn from a civil war and half the country is on the run itself

List of Muslim majority countries

https://nosharia.wordpress.com/list-of-muslim-majority-countries-with-sectstategovernment/

Why are not these countries taking in all the refuges ? Why are fellow muslim / arabic countries not taking in like minded people on the run ?

Tufty · « **Reply #7 on:** October 31, 2015, 12:42:18 PM »

Sweden's and whole Europe's infrastracture is declining because capitalists dont want to pay taxes. Immigrants and refugees are scapegoats. Immigrants and refuges dont want to come in Europe they want to stay at home. However we fuck up their countries with wars and planted corrupted governments that favour multinational corporations. We are responsible for this shitstorm and we should take rensponsibility. We should either stop Germany, US, France, UK and the whole NATO invading countries for capitalists' interests or accept anyone in our societies.

In Greece the situation is hell. There are no money or infrastructure to treat the refugees even for a few days until they continue their journey north. The whole thing is on the backs of volunteers from whole Europe and locals. EU is only giving money to make hot spots. This is the name of centers that will verify the identity of people to see who can seek asylum and who cant. This is bullshit as people are dying just to get to the hotspots and because there are people who dont have war in their countries but they are fleeing from planted dictatorships and extreme poverty.

Alan · « **Reply #8 on:** October 31, 2015, 12:51:17 PM »

Monty, I agree with you that numbers are higher now, but 200k a year to Sweden alone is an exaggeration.

Scroll right on the big picture and you'll see which countries took in how many refugees. You'll see that most of the Syrian refugees either stay in Syria or in neighbouring countries, which are all muslim. Again, who can blame those who have the means to get to Europe? Same goes for Iraqis or Afghanis.

I also don't believe that the refugees will be allowed to stay forever. The economic migrants definitely won't. But as I said, the West is simply reaping what it sowed.

Tracer · « **Reply #9 on:** October 31, 2015, 06:27:12 PM »

There's a rape epidemic in Sweden directly connected to the refugee crisis. These immigrants don't have ethics, you can't just teach them Swedish and suddenly adapt to European culture. No doubt the gov't knew this would happen.

Start having kids again Europe! Why are Euros so afraid to have 8-9 children and a big family? You love your culture so much right?

Sk.A.T.A.N · « **Reply #10 on:** October 31, 2015, 09:38:52 PM »

This theme was talked a lot on facebook and made me see the true colors of many people, people can be so selfish and hatefull, even when talking about strangers. There's a hate conspiracy against the refugees, lots of clips of people rioting, destroying things, rejecting food, but its all manipulated to create fear in the society, mainly by extreme right wing groups. I'm pro-refugee. People tend to forget we are talking about people, human beings like us and not about numbers. Frontiers are just an ilusion, and people value is equal for anyone from anywere. Nobody should be blamed for beying born in a shithole country. I just cant judge someone for searching a safe place with good conditions to live, and no Monty, other islamic countrys arent a good option. Sure there are some bad people coming in, but bad people exist everywere and we just cant negate help to them and forget they are people, and there's a lot of good people in there too (the biggest part). Their culture can be outdated and barbaric at times but education is the key, those children will be the tomorrow europeans, so teach them how to be civilized. I think they can be helpfull to europe if we knew how to deal with this crisis.

brycickle · « **Reply #11 on:** November 01, 2015, 04:39:10 AM »

Alan, I tried looking at your map, but I got to Benghazi, and I lost my fucking shit.

AnotherHardDayAtTheOffice · « **Reply #12 on:** November 01, 2015, 06:19:42 AM »

Quote from: Tracer on October 31, 2015, 10:58:24 AM

Europe will eventually be totally Islamic. People just aren't having babies anymore, and Islams outfuck everyone on earth. You can't expect to keep your country by having 1.2 babies per 2 people.. it's going to happen so start breeding or stop complaining.

Quote from: Tracer on October 31, 2015, 06:27:12 PM

There's a rape epidemic in Sweden directly connected to the refugee crisis. These immigrants don't have ethics, you can't just teach them Swedish and suddenly adapt to European culture. No doubt the gov't knew this would happen.

Start having kids again Europe! Why are Euros so afraid to have 8-9 children and a big family? You love your culture so much right?

It's insane how Islamophobic and racist your two posts are. European far right groups literally have the exact same claims.

Assumption 1) Islam is taking over Europe: I live in Germany. Germany is among the countries with the highest numbers of Muslims in the EU (similar to the UK, France, Belgium, the Netherlands, and Sweden). All these countries have had sizable Muslim communities for several decades now. They're also among the richest countries in Europe. Muslim immigration is a) nothing new and b) nothing these societies couldn't handle.
However, what we're talking about here is that Muslims make up about 5-10% of the whole country. Germany, for example, takes up about 1 million refugees this year. If all of them were Muslims (and they're not), that'd add an additional 1.5% to the Muslim population. Not exactly a takeover, is it?
Besides, Muslim communities are concentrated in urban areas. They're virtually non-existent in all of East Germany and rural areas even in the West. And, believe it or not, even Berlin or Frankfurt haven't introduced the Sharia. Because that's your claim, right? Muslim immigration = Europe becomes Islamist?
Even if birth rates are lower than 2, there's no sign that Germany (for example) will ever have a Muslim majority. There are zero influential political groups associated with Islam. Quite the opposite, sadly, Islamophobia is becoming stronger and more aggressive by the day.
And also, even though the majority of refugees are from Syria and Afghanistan, that totally doesn't mean they're Islamists. A lot of Syrian refugees aren't even Muslim. They're Kurdish, Yazidis, or even Christians. Let's not forget that they were socialized in a moderately Islamic state. Assad is a cynical and brutal dictator, but he isn't even Muslim and the state suppressed Islamic fundamentalism. And even those who are Muslim often fled, because they weren't ok with Islamic groups, such as Al-Nusra or ISIS. Those from Afghanistan often fled their country precisely because Taliban wanted to kill them for not being Muslim enough.
All in all, stating that Islam is (politically) taking over Europe is simply absurd. If it were an actual threat, I wouldn't ignore it. This is mainly right-wing paranoia, that's all.

Assumption 2) Refugees are rapists and criminals: This one's really popular among right-wing groups! It's so popular that the German police published crime rates stating that crime around asylum camps and shelters hasn't really increased compared to before. Furthermore, crime rates indicate that immigrants (as a general group) aren't more likely to be convicted. The police only publishes limited data, but the data we have doesn't indicate that crime has increased due to refugees.
What has increased though is the media coverage on crimes committed by refugees (and foreigners in general). Right-wing groups use every single local incident to warn against "criminal refugees" while ignoring the seriously concerning assaults ON refugees. People are beaten up on the streets for looking "different" and shelters are put on fire every week. A group of activists in my area (Dresden) has covered more than 30 violent incidents directed at refugees in the past 3 weeks.
I'm not sure about the situation in Sweden (but I'd be surprised if refugees were more violent)... I can only speak for Germany, because at least I know what I'm talking about here.

Assumption 3) Refugees will never be able to adapt to European culture: I'm teaching German to a group of Afghan, Iranian, and Syrian refugees right now. All of them only got here about 4 weeks ago and they already speak basic German. They're slowly finding their way around and start to understand the way things work here. They stated that the first few weeks have been tough for them, but they're understanding things little by little. All they have in common is that they learn German, start working, and live in peace. Some of them are really educated and some aren't. But they're all willing to earn a living in Germany. It won't be easy... in fact, it won't be easy at all... but it's there's a point in giving them an even harder time. That's just my personal experience and I'm sure there's also other cases. But it's still not like refugees are the mess racists make them to be. Not by a long shot.

What it all comes down to is that, in my opinion, this is less a refugee crisis than a right-wing crisis. As said, there's been an unfortunate racist backlash in recent months. Society is more polarized than ever. All this has little to do with the actual refugees that are coming to Europe/Germany. It's rather about the ideas people have of them. Fear of competition have brough out the worst (i.e., racist and nationalist) in people. It's really, really sad, especially here in Dresden, where PEGIDA ("Patriotic Europeans Against the Islamization of the Occident"... no shit!) brings ten thousands to the street every Monday. That's just one example of a right-wing Islamophobic movement. More exist all over Europe.

And you Tracer, spread the same bullshit here on Slap. Next time, make your homework first. Have you ever been here at all? It sounds like you don't know shit about European life and politics. Just online rumors. Not cool and edgy at all.

Tufty · « **Reply #13 on:** November 01, 2015, 07:38:09 AM »

Right wing propaganda is just a decoy from the real problem. Which is that the rich are fucking the whole world and that trickle down economics are a horrible lie that work for a minority of people.

Matze · « **Reply #14 on:** November 01, 2015, 09:57:52 AM »

I'm a social worker specialized in working with asylum seekers and refugees, so I'm confronted with the topic every damn day. And I'm a refugee myself (Alan, you are too, right?). I lived in a camp too. This does not prove that I'm right. But I take it very personal Tracer what you're saying. And I'll punch your teeth out of your face if I ever see you in person.

This is the fourth wave of refugee since 1945 in Germany. First the persons from Prussia and every other country that is considered eastern europe now. They were Germans, who flew to the west and were hated by the people who always lived there. Then we had the refugees from GDR, that had a hard time being accepted. Then we all the persons so from the communist countries, who had German roots and could not leave the country until late eighties. They have not been accepted as Germans for a long time. With the wars in ex-jugoslavia we had many refugees from this area. Many got send back after the war. Now it's the same. People have never been migrant friendly here, even if it's they're own people. It's insane. Blond, blue eyed, German, christian refugees had the same problems with integration, cause the society is just paranoid. If the persons now wouldn't be muslims we would still have the hate. My point is ... I don't have a point. Fuck you tracer.

Tracer · « **Reply #15 on:** November 01, 2015, 10:05:15 AM »

Anyone who would resort to violence over WORDS is very weak-minded. Parents shoulda taught you noises you make with your mouth are never worth fighting over

Europe will be Islamic someday, I didn't say it in a bad way you sensitive retards.

vegan*shawn · « **Reply #16 on:** November 01, 2015, 10:55:12 AM »

Tracer you are a fucking idiot, go play in traffic please!!

AnotherHardDayAtTheOffice · « **Reply #17 on:** November 01, 2015, 11:48:30 AM »

Quote from: Tracer on November 01, 2015, 10:05:15 AM

Anyone who would resort to violence over WORDS is very weak-minded. Parents shoulda taught you noises you make with your mouth are never worth fighting over

Europe will be Islamic someday, I didn't say it in a bad way you sensitive retards.

It's an incredibly sensitive debate, you dumb fuck. What did you expect?

Of course you insulted Muslim refugees. If you fail to understand that, you didn't get the whole debate and its different camps. Just as a little reminder:

Quote from: Tracer on October 31, 2015, 06:27:12 PM

There's a rape epidemic in Sweden directly connected to the refugee crisis. These immigrants don't have ethics, you can't just teach them Swedish and suddenly adapt to European culture. No doubt the gov't knew this would happen.

Tracer · « **Reply #18 on:** November 01, 2015, 12:06:19 PM »

Pointing out the truth isn't being insulting or racist. It's not called a "crisis" because the refugees are bringing flowers and plans to build houses for their families.. It's a problem when they kidnap innocent people, rob and gang rape young girls to death. Canada takes more % of immigrants than anyone, but they are smart about it and don't let 200 000 Syrians in per year, that is recipe for disaster, as anyone with common sense knows.

Alan · « **Reply #19 on:** November 01, 2015, 12:34:20 PM »

Matze, I'm not, but I know why you think I am, hahaha!

Anyway, why don't you guys have Tracer on ignore? Everyone knows he's a troll...

Tracer · « **Reply #20 on:** November 01, 2015, 12:43:26 PM »

Quote from: Alan on November 01, 2015, 12:34:20 PM

Matze, I'm not, but I know why you think I am, hahaha!

Anyway, why don't you guys have Tracer on ignore? Everyone knows he's a troll...

so ironic, that's how europe is dealing with the crisis!

Monty Burns · « **Reply #21 on:** November 01, 2015, 12:47:25 PM »

Ill try to adress as many of you guys possible here

First of all tracer and tufty , if you cant add something interesting to this convo , then just dont post here at all . Tracer is just posting bullshit , and tufty is on some kind of its the USA and capitalists fult , but the EUs fult , but still its the EUs fult .

First SKATAN . Ill post up some quotes

Quote

true colors of many people, people can be so selfish and hateful, even when talking about strangers.

Quote

people tend to forget we are talking about people, human beings like us and not about numbers

Heres the truth , people dont give a shit . If your mother or father , brother , girlfriend was a refuge . You would let them into your apartment or house right away . How many of these refuges are you willing to move into your house ?

I mean these are human beings . small children with no mom or dad . Surly you could take in 2 or 3 children ? even with a pretty bad job you could take them in and have friends and family help with food and baby sitting . In countries with good governments like Sweden denmark , norway you could technically adopt 3 kids , and get aid to take care of them . Id prob say 99% of people in these countries will not take in a family or 2 , or adopt any kids at all . Because deep down people dont give a shit

You think syria has the only refuges ? its been going on for ages , Theres alot of wars in Africa how many of those kids are getting taken care of ? how many of those are we going to take in ?

It is exactly about numbers , Sweden could take in all of the refuges of the world , just bring them all over . And in less then 2 months sweden would be a refuge country , it would be bankrupt and a shit country . I mean the main reason people want to come to sweden is cause its a good country . While we have complaints and we wish it could be better , it is all in all a good country . But the more and more people we take in its getting worse and worse . We dont have the resources , the jobs , the hospital spots , the education to even just take care of the swedes . how are we gonna take care of all the refuges ?

I used the example of a overfull glass before , think of it as a boat in the ocean instead then . 100 people in the water and you have space for 20 more on the boat , sure you could rescue all 100 of them , but the boat would sink and you will all die . now what do you do save the 20 ? or take on everybody ?

Alan

Quote

I also don't believe that the refugees will be allowed to stay forever. The economic migrants definitely won't. But as I said, the West is simply reaping what it sowed.

How do you know who is who of the refuges ? or even what country most of them come from . They dont have the EU passports with numbers , digital photo and fingerprints . Ive seen some of the photos in media where they have their IDs and passports . Its basicly a
typed piece of paper with a photo stapled on . A bigger question is how many of these are former soldiers ? radicals ? ISIS or Al Quaida ?

And people we are gonna send back , how much are we spending on them ? taking them in , shelter , medical care ,food , and then let them stay one or two years , and then send them back

AnotherHardDayAtTheOffi

Situation in sweden is abit the same , there is a rise in muslim population , But the left / liberal is saying its not that big . And then you have the right saying its over the top and that they all commit crimes . I would say the truth is abit between

Growing up in highschool we used to have muslim gangs of 10 people from the "tough" schools with bigger immigration students , go to other schools and rob the swedish kids . These swedish kids will no doubt be hating on immigrants . Now I mean its just one thing . We have also had honor killings . Educated muslim girls growing up in sweden , being killed by their fathers and brothers for becoming too swedish and getting jobs . or boyfriends they dont agree with . And we have had some gang rapes by immigrants

Now these are all isolated events , and ofcourse not all emigrants or muslims do stuff like this . Many people come over and respect the law and traditons in sweden . But its like the news and media . Nobody is reporting on how everything is fine . No media is reporting today no muslim killed anybody . Its always about the bad stuff people do . Our third biggest (maybe second now ) politcal party
in sweden right now is Anti refuge , anti immigration , and pretty anti Muslim . That says something about how swedes feel about this whole thing .

Matze , I dont envy your job at all , its hard as shit and prob just a shit rollercoaster on your emotions , keep your head up stay strong .

Alan · « **Reply #22 on:** November 01, 2015, 01:05:04 PM »

Monty, it sounds like you're parroting the typical bs from European tabloids and their online commenters.

Example:

Quote

You would let them into your apartment or house right away . How many of these refuges are you willing to move into your house ?

This is the dumbest comment of them all, and it gets spouted a lot on the internet. I am for free education, does that mean I have to teach kids in my house? I am for free medical insurance, do I need to treat people in my house? No, I am paying taxes so that these services are available to all, and it's the government's responsibility to provide them.

And btw, Tufty is right, but you'd rather put the blame on the refugees, as if they're mindless drones, who are very sneakily dying by the thousands and spending their life savings so that the soft Europeans will take pity on the survivors and allow them to stay in their 5 star camps.

AnotherHardDayAtTheOffice · « **Reply #23 on:** November 01, 2015, 01:24:16 PM »

Quote from: Tracer on November 01, 2015, 12:06:19 PM

Pointing out the truth isn't being insulting or racist. It's not called a "crisis" because the refugees are bringing flowers and plans to build houses for their families.. It's a problem when they kidnap innocent people, rob and gang rape young girls to death. Canada takes more % of immigrants than anyone, but they are smart about it and don't let 200 000 Syrians in per year, that is recipe for disaster, as anyone with common sense knows.

Haha, if you think that's the truth, you're racist. That's the thing about racists... they're not aware of their prejudice and paranoia. Just like stupid people... are they aware of their own stupidity? No, that's part of what being stupid means. And you see... with racists it's pretty much the same thing. Of course, they think they're right. Why would someone proclaim something they know is wrong?

Besides, nobody claims to be racist. That's why the phrase "I'm not a racist, but..." is so infamous.

PS: Fuck you.

Monty Burns · « **Reply #24 on:** November 01, 2015, 02:05:50 PM »

Quote from: Alan on November 01, 2015, 01:05:04 PM

Monty, it sounds like you're parroting the typical bs from European tabloids and their online commenters.

Example:
Quote
Expand Quote
You would let them into your apartment or house right away . How many of these refuges are you willing to move into your house ?
[close]

This is the dumbest comment of them all, and it gets spouted a lot on the internet. I am for free education, does that mean I have to teach kids in my house? I am for free medical insurance, do I need to treat people in my house? No, I am paying taxes so that these services are available to all, and it's the government's responsibility to provide them.

Sure , you pay taxes for all of those things , but what do we do when theres not enough money ? . Biggest problem with taking all these refugees in are housing . We currently have a buss in sweden with 50 something refugese refusing to leave the buss that drove them to their temperary housing cause they dont feel its safe . The compaints was there was no wifi , no close shops , not in a big city and there might be wild life around like Moose . In a situation like this one could say if you really cared about these people let them move into your apartment since the government doesnt have the resources to put them else ware

Please give me a solution to taking in all these people ? higher taxes ? building more schools , more housing ? more hospitals ? create more jobs for teachers and doctors ? . We cant even do that when we have no refugees to help

If a lady gets shot in the street , 2 para medics bring her up to your house and say they need to treat her here and now . Do you refuse cause while you are for free health care you want your goverment to handle it , you pay them for it . Or do you let them treat her . I mean shes not gonna stay there for ever

If some refugese need a place to stay for awhile , maybe afew months . Do you let them ? I mean they need a place to stay and its not forever

Who are you guys blaming for the war ? was Assad set up as ruler of Syria by US or EU ? . Isnt the current war in syria and Iraq betwen 2 muslim sects ? the sunni and shia ? . Sweden is a neutral country , we had peace keeping missions in Afghanistan , We havent had anything to do with Syria or Iraq , In fact we didnt support the Iraq war , yet we take in refugees from all these countries

I know its known now that Bush and Blair set this whole thing up . I think Bush , blair and cheney should be in some war trail . But are you guys sure Iraq / Afghanistan were better off with the Taliban and Husein and his sons ?

Ill admit Im not the smartest guy , Im a high school drop out and theres alot of shit I dont get . Id just try to remind you guys again that this is just my opinion . Im not trying to insult or call you guys names and shit . So lets try to keep it civil and have a calm discussion about this

weedpop · « **Reply #25 on:** November 01, 2015, 02:17:19 PM »

Monty Burns is an excellent example of someone who doesn't take the time to actually learn about and understand issues yet still feels justified in having strong opinions about them.

Turtle Boy · « **Reply #26 on:** November 01, 2015, 02:30:43 PM »

Quote from: Tufty on October 31, 2015, 12:42:18 PM

Sweden's and whole Europe's infrastracture is declining because capitalists dont want to pay taxes. Immigrants and refugees are scapegoats. Immigrants and refuges dont want to come in Europe they want to stay at home.

This.

CigaretteBeer · « **Reply #27 on:** November 01, 2015, 03:03:08 PM »

Tufty · « **Reply #28 on:** November 01, 2015, 06:02:07 PM »

Quote from: Monty Burns on November 01, 2015, 02:05:50 PM

Quote from: Alan on November 01, 2015, 01:05:04 PM
Expand Quote
Monty, it sounds like you're parroting the typical bs from European tabloids and their online commenters.

Example:
Quote
Expand Quote
You would let them into your apartment or house right away . How many of these refuges are you willing to move into your house ?
[close]

This is the dumbest comment of them all, and it gets spouted a lot on the internet. I am for free education, does that mean I have to teach kids in my house? I am for free medical insurance, do I need to treat people in my house? No, I am paying taxes so that these services are available to all, and it's the government's responsibility to provide them.

[close]

Sure , you pay taxes for all of those things , but what do we do when theres not enough money ? . Biggest problem with taking all these refugees in are housing . We currently have a buss in sweden with 50 something refugese refusing to leave the buss that drove them to their temperary housing cause they dont feel its safe . The compaints was there was no wifi , no close shops , not in a big city and there might be wild life around like Moose . In a situation like this one could say if you really cared about these people let them move into your apartment since the government doesnt have the resources to put them else ware

Please give me a solution to taking in all these people ? higher taxes ? building more schools , more housing ? more hospitals ? create more jobs for teachers and doctors ? . We cant even do that when we have no refugees to help

If a lady gets shot in the street , 2 para medics bring her up to your house and say they need to treat her here and now . Do you refuse cause while you are for free health care you want your goverment to handle it , you pay them for it . Or do you let them treat her . I mean shes not gonna stay there for ever

If some refugese need a place to stay for awhile , maybe afew months . Do you let them ? I mean they need a place to stay and its not forever

Who are you guys blaming for the war ? was Assad set up as ruler of Syria by US or EU ? . Isnt the current war in syria and Iraq betwen 2 muslim sects ? the sunni and shia ? . Sweden is a neutral country , we had peace keeping missions in Afghanistan , We havent had anything to do with Syria or Iraq , In fact we didnt support the Iraq war , yet we take in refugees from all these countries

I know its known now that Bush and Blair set this whole thing up . I think Bush , blair and cheney should be in some war trail . But are you guys sure Iraq / Afghanistan were better off with the Taliban and Husein and his sons ?

Ill admit Im not the smartest guy , Im a high school drop out and theres alot of shit I dont get . Id just try to remind you guys again that this is just my opinion . Im not trying to insult or call you guys names and shit . So lets try to keep it civil and have a calm discussion about this

Greece is famous for being in deep shit since 2009. Yet you know something that they dont say at your news? Greece has more billioners and richer billioners than those it had 6 years ago. My family lost 40% of their income during those years so that the billioners can keep on profiting. Kids at schools are hungry. Infrastructure is rotting. Desperate people are commiting suicide. Unemployment is at 27% while youth unemployment is at 50%. And now they let immigrants and refugees dieing in our shores and seas.

Everyone that says that there are no money should be ashamed. There are money in the hands of greedy sociopath assholes, who dont give a fuck about human life. Refugees, immigrants, locals have all right to work, housing and decent living.

Tracer · « **Reply #29 on:** November 01, 2015, 07:37:59 PM »

Quote from: Tufty on November 01, 2015, 06:02:07 PM

Quote from: Monty Burns on November 01, 2015, 02:05:50 PM
Expand Quote
Quote from: Alan on November 01, 2015, 01:05:04 PM
Expand Quote
Monty, it sounds like you're parroting the typical bs from European tabloids and their online commenters.

Example:
Quote
Expand Quote
You would let them into your apartment or house right away . How many of these refuges are you willing to move into your house ?
[close]

This is the dumbest comment of them all, and it gets spouted a lot on the internet. I am for free education, does that mean I have to teach kids in my house? I am for free medical insurance, do I need to treat people in my house? No, I am paying taxes so that these services are available to all, and it's the government's responsibility to provide them.

[close]

Sure , you pay taxes for all of those things , but what do we do when theres not enough money ? . Biggest problem with taking all these refugees in are housing . We currently have a buss in sweden with 50 something refugese refusing to leave the buss that drove them to their temperary housing cause they dont feel its safe . The compaints was there was no wifi , no close shops , not in a big city and there might be wild life around like Moose . In a situation like this one could say if you really cared about these people let them move into your apartment since the government doesnt have the resources to put them else ware

Please give me a solution to taking in all these people ? higher taxes ? building more schools , more housing ? more hospitals ? create more jobs for teachers and doctors ? . We cant even do that when we have no refugees to help

If a lady gets shot in the street , 2 para medics bring her up to your house and say they need to treat her here and now . Do you refuse cause while you are for free health care you want your goverment to handle it , you pay them for it . Or do you let them treat her . I mean shes not gonna stay there for ever

If some refugese need a place to stay for awhile , maybe afew months . Do you let them ? I mean they need a place to stay and its not forever

Who are you guys blaming for the war ? was Assad set up as ruler of Syria by US or EU ? . Isnt the current war in syria and Iraq betwen 2 muslim sects ? the sunni and shia ? . Sweden is a neutral country , we had peace keeping missions in Afghanistan , We havent had anything to do with Syria or Iraq , In fact we didnt support the Iraq war , yet we take in refugees from all these countries

I know its known now that Bush and Blair set this whole thing up . I think Bush , blair and cheney should be in some war trail . But are you guys sure Iraq / Afghanistan were better off with the Taliban and Husein and his sons ?

Ill admit Im not the smartest guy , Im a high school drop out and theres alot of shit I dont get . Id just try to remind you guys again that this is just my opinion . Im not trying to insult or call you guys names and shit . So lets try to keep it civil and have a calm discussion about this
[close]

Greece is famous for being in deep shit since 2009. Yet you know something that they dont say at your news? Greece has more billioners and richer billioners than those it had 6 years ago. My family lost 40% of their income during those years so that the billioners can keep on profiting. Kids at schools are hungry. Infrastructure is rotting. Desperate people are commiting suicide. Unemployment is at 27% while youth unemployment is at 50%. And now they let immigrants and refugees dieing in our shores and seas.

Everyone that says that there are no money should be ashamed. There are money in the hands of greedy sociopath assholes, who dont give a fuck about human life. Refugees, immigrants, locals have all right to work, housing and decent living.

Greeks don't work. They sit around, smoke and drink cold coffee all day. Can you blame them though? They have the entire world wanting a piece of them