Author Topic: Truck set-ups  (Read 1221042 times)

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backinaction

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9510 on: December 15, 2020, 06:30:23 PM »
They’re 1.5mm lower and forged hollows are a decent amount lighter. I prefer them to standard Indy. Haven’t had the Ti ones yet

There are hollows with cast baseplates that are the standard 55mm tall, and then the hollow forged and Ti at 53.5


ballintoohard

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9511 on: December 15, 2020, 06:58:32 PM »
Edited to clarify that I mostly just like the lower height of forged plates.

Weezil

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9512 on: December 15, 2020, 11:42:12 PM »
a while back I got some forged hollow indy 159s to try out on curb boards. personally I don't think they're worth the extra money unless you hate how high the standards feel. board feels pretty much the same once you put it all together.

they feel weird in your hands, like the balance is off because of the forged plate, and I don't like the contrast to the hanger how it's all shiny and the hanger looks cast.

I'd get them if I skated smaller boards because I like the height of the standards for 149 and up, but at that point I could get aces or thunders and save 10 bucks. though I will say I like the designs thunder and indy do at the bottom of their forged plates, it's a nice touch.

sketchyrider

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9513 on: December 16, 2020, 07:23:12 AM »
i've had all four versions, just not the mids. i agree that they end up feeling mostly similar.

the hollows take away from some of that indy clunkiness. forged hollows are a tiny bit lower and lighter, but some of that feeling is negated since the forged baseplates set your wheelbase a little longer. titaniums are the lightest but most expensive for a small reduction in weight.

i do like the hollows on bigger boards with big wheels, especially if you toss risers on, it helps make the pop a little lighter. im also rocking forged titanium 159s on an 8.62" popsicle with 54mm conicals, it makes that board feel a little lighter.

the downside to hollow trucks: that lighter hangar is more responsive to your shifts in weight so they become a little twitchier. forged baseplates makes the board even more wheelbite prone, i didn't like forged hollow 169's they just seemed like wheelbite central.

i also think that the standards roll over crust and grind curbs/pool coping better. its probably because standard hangars have the most momentum from their weight, and not from the physics of vibrations being different through a hollow axle, but who knows? and finally i think *most* pros on indy just ride the standards or hollows, i know chris joslin had a pro model forged hollow though. i never hear about pros on the titaniums but who knows.

backinaction

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9514 on: December 16, 2020, 10:32:45 AM »
i never hear about pros on the titaniums but who knows.

I watched a number of the "My Indies" videos and most were on standards or hollows.  A couple of the old vert guys will skate Ti.  I believe Hawk said he would skate hollow forged or Ti, whichever Indy sent.  Cab just says Ti.

Both running Bones bushings with no bottom washer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDZVfqqlcPo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3Hz1V260nY

FrozenIndustries

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9515 on: December 16, 2020, 11:21:17 AM »
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I've only ridden standard Indys...
How are the hollows vs regular standard? This is my most curious choice
(Then .. the forged titanium  vs forged hollows?)
I think I am reading that correct, 4 versions? (Not interested in mids at all)
[close]

Certainly a difference in weight and height, but unless you are a very pedantic or extremely sensitive in your setups, they are not going to feel overly different.

That said, standards are 55mm tall on the cast baseplate, anything the forged baseplate are 53.5 mm tall, so a slight difference in height.

For weight, it is about the same as a few coins in your pocket between the various options, so if you definitely need lighter, it will make a difference, but if you don't really need lighter, then it is not going to make a big difference.

I know some people who can really tell with their setups, but there are also lots of others who are not really impacted by it, and depending on how much you want to spend or whatever is actually available, it is still very much up to the individual.

I have skated and had them all, but I keep going back to the simple standard polished as they just work really well for how I skate and what I like, definitely more so than the lower Stage 9 and 10, which I still have on older setups.

With light trucks I think the lighter pop feel pretty much always comes from the height and not the weight. Not that I am good enough to be publicly posting such a claim, but I also think that forged plates feel yucky and am seeking validation on that opinion.

hillbilly shifty

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9516 on: December 16, 2020, 01:51:24 PM »
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Anyone know where I can buy some inverted kingpins?
[close]

These are affordable, same format as the Grind King kingpins. Wider, lower head, no need for a top bushing cup.

https://www.sk8ratz.com/sure-grip-classic-kingpin-3-8-allen-head-kingpin-sold-individually/
[close]

Those look good. I'll try them maybe in a year after my venture/krux mods are shredded. I like them, just have a feeling im gonna destroy my washer eventuallly.
[close]

They're for rollerskates, different threads (I know because I have them) so you'll need a different nut than the standard kingpin nuts.
[close]

Oh dang. It's a course thread instead of the standard skate fine thread? That sucks, didn't know. My bad for spreading the word on the imperfect product. It's not a deal breaker if you do the JB Weld conversion (just buy a course version of the nut at a hardware store), but won't work on the new Indy Mid baseplates. Thanks for the firsthand info Xen!

this is a good option. bought a set a few years back. seems like they have a ginormous stockpile.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Kreper-Grind-King-kingpin-old-school-vintage-skateboard-independent-w-Allen-Key/253447181873?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D225074%26meid%3Db6f242589f8b4e5ba4dfb0df35fc721e%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D7%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D233600719566%26itm%3D253447181873%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Acdfca4a7-39cc-11eb-8d8e-2a4720bf77c5%7Cparentrq%3A457f3e561760a4b4d310304bfff476c2%7Ciid%3A1


Ok

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9517 on: December 16, 2020, 02:29:19 PM »
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I've only ridden standard Indys...
How are the hollows vs regular standard? This is my most curious choice
(Then .. the forged titanium  vs forged hollows?)
I think I am reading that correct, 4 versions? (Not interested in mids at all)
[close]

Certainly a difference in weight and height, but unless you are a very pedantic or extremely sensitive in your setups, they are not going to feel overly different.

That said, standards are 55mm tall on the cast baseplate, anything the forged baseplate are 53.5 mm tall, so a slight difference in height.

For weight, it is about the same as a few coins in your pocket between the various options, so if you definitely need lighter, it will make a difference, but if you don't really need lighter, then it is not going to make a big difference.

I know some people who can really tell with their setups, but there are also lots of others who are not really impacted by it, and depending on how much you want to spend or whatever is actually available, it is still very much up to the individual.

I have skated and had them all, but I keep going back to the simple standard polished as they just work really well for how I skate and what I like, definitely more so than the lower Stage 9 and 10, which I still have on older setups.
[close]

With light trucks I think the lighter pop feel pretty much always comes from the height and not the weight. Not that I am good enough to be publicly posting such a claim, but I also think that forged plates feel yucky and am seeking validation on that opinion.


You feel that way because forged plates do feel yucky.
I like lighter shit on boards that are too big for me, but if it’s ‘my size’ I don’t need lighter shit, and then why am I riding some big board if I need e’rything super light? Makes no sense. (I mean I’ve tried it, light parts on a big setup, just never sticks as the one). The lighter trucks do feel weirder on chunkier grinding surfaces.

ok boomer

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9518 on: December 16, 2020, 02:50:16 PM »
I have these moments where I want to try new stuff but I get very little free time to skate so I'm also wary of trying something that I don't like with this little spare time.

Urtripping

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9519 on: December 16, 2020, 04:25:29 PM »
My thunders are a little fucked right now, but it's kinda perfect.

I ride bones hardcore bushings and shave them down so that the front truck wiggles and the back is just tight enough not to. The front kingpin nut is like fused to the kingpin in the perfect spot and never comes loose. Dreading the day when I'll have to replace the pivot cup or something and ruin the balance.

I do have to hand tighten the rear one though, and skating home one day I ollied a manhole and the rear truck exploded and shit went everywhere. Was unable to recover the top bushing so I threw in a stock one after I hiked it to my apartment. Been running it since the summer and it actually feels great.

Also I've been riding 149's on 8-8.125's for a year or so after sizing down and even though I'm used to it now, I'm wondering if I'm fucking myself up by not switching to 147's.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2020, 05:20:44 PM by Urtripping »
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Mbrimson88

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9520 on: December 16, 2020, 05:22:18 PM »
I have these moments where I want to try new stuff but I get very little free time to skate so I'm also wary of trying something that I don't like with this little spare time.
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[close]

I do find it rather interesting though that some people (not just the shop guy trying to upsell) really talk up the absolute top end trucks like they are going to change your life, but at the end of the day, they are still going to make you skate the same.

To me it is more a bit of the feeling of new trucks (which you can always just go scratch up on a curb first if you are so against the new truck feel), but a lot of the feeling of new bushings.  If you get the bushings right then the trucks will feel great, but if they are not feeling how you are used to them, then things are going to suffer as a result.

I talk too much about skateboards.  Sorry.

FrozenIndustries

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9521 on: December 17, 2020, 05:44:40 AM »
I have these moments where I want to try new stuff but I get very little free time to skate so I'm also wary of trying something that I don't like with this little spare time.

Trying new stuff is overrated, and very rarely does it improve the experience of skateboarding. You'll have like 1 good honeymoon session and thats it.

I'm one to talk, but I am also not wrong.

ok boomer

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9522 on: December 17, 2020, 06:50:36 AM »
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I have these moments where I want to try new stuff but I get very little free time to skate so I'm also wary of trying something that I don't like with this little spare time.
[close]

Trying new stuff is overrated, and very rarely does it improve the experience of skateboarding. You'll have like 1 good honeymoon session and thats it.

I'm one to talk, but I am also not wrong.

I basically like 3 setups:
7.5-7.75 with Indy 129s
smaller egg/football with 139s
7.5 with Venture 5.0 lo's

If you cannot tell, I am stuck in 3 eras of skateboarding: 1998, 1992 and 1996. Or you could say: Timecode, Questionable and Mouse. I am a prisoner of nostalgia.

Ok

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9523 on: December 17, 2020, 06:52:04 AM »
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I have these moments where I want to try new stuff but I get very little free time to skate so I'm also wary of trying something that I don't like with this little spare time.
[close]

Trying new stuff is overrated, and very rarely does it improve the experience of skateboarding. You'll have like 1 good honeymoon session and thats it.

I'm one to talk, but I am also not wrong.
[close]

I basically like 3 setups:
7.5-7.75 with Indy 129s
smaller egg/football with 139s
7.5 with Venture 5.0 lo's

If you cannot tell, I am stuck in 3 eras of skateboarding: 1998, 1992 and 1996. Or you could say: Timecode, Questionable and Mouse. I am a prisoner of nostalgia.

I see no problems

Mbrimson88

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9524 on: December 17, 2020, 06:58:13 PM »
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I have these moments where I want to try new stuff but I get very little free time to skate so I'm also wary of trying something that I don't like with this little spare time.
[close]

Trying new stuff is overrated, and very rarely does it improve the experience of skateboarding. You'll have like 1 good honeymoon session and thats it.

I'm one to talk, but I am also not wrong.
[close]

I basically like 3 setups:
7.5-7.75 with Indy 129s
smaller egg/football with 139s
7.5 with Venture 5.0 lo's

If you cannot tell, I am stuck in 3 eras of skateboarding: 1998, 1992 and 1996. Or you could say: Timecode, Questionable and Mouse. I am a prisoner of nostalgia.

That is what I love about skateboarding.

There is no right or wrong setup to have, as it is all relative to how you skate and what you want to do on your board.

I talk too much about skateboards.  Sorry.

Nicki

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9525 on: December 17, 2020, 11:57:12 PM »
Quick question, are Thunders also made in China now? I ride Thunders and thought the OG baseplates (on the trucks they’re calling Team now) were made in US. However, when i went to the shop to buy some reg 161 for cruiser, I saw the stamp “USA Made” wasn’t there anymore, replaced by thunder logo. Checking the other size Team baseplates, they too no longer had USA made. I figured the lights baseplates were China but this came as a shock.

Say it aint so!

Mbrimson88

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9526 on: December 18, 2020, 01:02:02 AM »
Quick question, are Thunders also made in China now? I ride Thunders and thought the OG baseplates (on the trucks they’re calling Team now) were made in US. However, when i went to the shop to buy some reg 161 for cruiser, I saw the stamp “USA Made” wasn’t there anymore, replaced by thunder logo. Checking the other size Team baseplates, they too no longer had USA made. I figured the lights baseplates were China but this came as a shock.

Say it aint so!

Some brands or parts are made in Mexico now, others in China, but very little actually comes from manufacturing within the US.  Seems like it is a bit of a hush hush situation, but someone might give you the correct answer.

I talk too much about skateboards.  Sorry.

Nicki

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9527 on: December 18, 2020, 01:38:23 AM »
Expand Quote
Quick question, are Thunders also made in China now? I ride Thunders and thought the OG baseplates (on the trucks they’re calling Team now) were made in US. However, when i went to the shop to buy some reg 161 for cruiser, I saw the stamp “USA Made” wasn’t there anymore, replaced by thunder logo. Checking the other size Team baseplates, they too no longer had USA made. I figured the lights baseplates were China but this came as a shock.

Say it aint so!
[close]

Some brands or parts are made in Mexico now, others in China, but very little actually comes from manufacturing within the US.  Seems like it is a bit of a hush hush situation, but someone might give you the correct answer.

It certainly seems like that’s the case. In the past, I’ve always seen the US made trucks as premium (Thunder, Venture, Indy), to the China made Tensor etc and companies that used to be US made (Destructo, Krux, even Orion). But if it’s all China now then there’s no more taking the high ground, kinda levels the playing field, when everyone’s just doing it on the cheap (...probably Uyghurs...). And definitely hush, hush which makes it seem a bit dodgy and underhanded. End of an era.

ballintoohard

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9528 on: December 18, 2020, 08:09:04 AM »
How have skaters not realized that the anti China talk is:

1. Bullshit. Chinese manufacturing at scale is often as high or higher quality than American. Many high end composite and metal parts are made in China in other industries.
2. Protectionist MAGA rhetoric. Literally the same shit Trump and his supporters say.

My Chinese Indys ride the same as my American ones and there is no difference in quality. I get it if people are mad that NHS moved production away from Ermico and stopped supporting a foundry that has a history in skating, but it said foundry can’t meet production targets at a competitive cost there is a point where it doesn’t make sense to use them.

ballintoohard

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9529 on: December 18, 2020, 08:12:18 AM »
Did a simple test this morning as I have 2 decks with the same wheels and dimensions one with Indys and one with Venture High. I found a piece of chalk at a nearby basketball court and used a piece of string to make some circles of varying radii. I then started in the same spot with 2 pushes and just followed the circles. I was able to get the same exact performance from both trucks. The Ventures took slightly more pressure when the circle was tight. So they turn just fine.

Urtripping

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9530 on: December 18, 2020, 08:49:06 AM »
Did a simple test this morning as I have 2 decks with the same wheels and dimensions one with Indys and one with Venture High. I found a piece of chalk at a nearby basketball court and used a piece of string to make some circles of varying radii. I then started in the same spot with 2 pushes and just followed the circles. I was able to get the same exact performance from both trucks. The Ventures took slightly more pressure when the circle was tight. So they turn just fine.

Gonna need a formal report including the metrics you used to measure performance and will also need data from multiple tests to consider this claim conclusive.
I saw your mommy and your mommy's dead


Ok

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9531 on: December 18, 2020, 08:51:54 AM »
How have skaters not realized that the anti China talk is:

1. Bullshit. Chinese manufacturing at scale is often as high or higher quality than American. Many high end composite and metal parts are made in China in other industries.
2. Protectionist MAGA rhetoric. Literally the same shit Trump and his supporters say.

My Chinese Indys ride the same as my American ones and there is no difference in quality. I get it if people are mad that NHS moved production away from Ermico and stopped supporting a foundry that has a history in skating, but it said foundry can’t meet production targets at a competitive cost there is a point where it doesn’t make sense to use them.


Bullshit, to your bullshit.

I’d prefer, to the point of paying significantly more, things to be manufactured closer to me, for a many reasons, including: jobs for people closer to me, less shipping stuff around the world, hopefully better protections for the workers, hopefully better protections for the environment.

Didn’t know you were a fucking stockholder in all major truck brands. Why the fuck do you care about their profits so much?

I buy trucks made in China. But I’d prefer to buy trucks made in the USA.

Urtripping

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9532 on: December 18, 2020, 09:02:14 AM »
Expand Quote
How have skaters not realized that the anti China talk is:

1. Bullshit. Chinese manufacturing at scale is often as high or higher quality than American. Many high end composite and metal parts are made in China in other industries.
2. Protectionist MAGA rhetoric. Literally the same shit Trump and his supporters say.

My Chinese Indys ride the same as my American ones and there is no difference in quality. I get it if people are mad that NHS moved production away from Ermico and stopped supporting a foundry that has a history in skating, but it said foundry can’t meet production targets at a competitive cost there is a point where it doesn’t make sense to use them.
[close]


Bullshit, to your bullshit.

I’d prefer, to the point of paying significantly more, things to be manufactured closer to me, for a many reasons, including: jobs for people closer to me, less shipping stuff around the world, hopefully better protections for the workers, hopefully better protections for the environment.

Didn’t know you were a fucking stockholder in all major truck brands. Why the fuck do you care about their profits so much?

I buy trucks made in China. But I’d prefer to buy trucks made in the USA.

Agreed. The race to the bottom is real and bipartisan. Ideally under our current economic system, all countries should have robust means of production that is ethical and profitable.

There is a reason it's been historically cheaper to manufacture in China, and it has less to do with quality of product and more to do with the quality of worker's lives.

Edit: and, of course, looser environmental protections.
I saw your mommy and your mommy's dead


Frank and Fred

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9533 on: December 18, 2020, 09:37:11 AM »

2. Protectionist MAGA rhetoric. Literally the same shit Trump and his supporters say.



Made in USA is also something that has been championed by unions, leftist and environmentalists for decades. C'mon, you are not that uneducated.

ballintoohard

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9534 on: December 18, 2020, 10:10:29 AM »
Expand Quote
How have skaters not realized that the anti China talk is:

1. Bullshit. Chinese manufacturing at scale is often as high or higher quality than American. Many high end composite and metal parts are made in China in other industries.
2. Protectionist MAGA rhetoric. Literally the same shit Trump and his supporters say.

My Chinese Indys ride the same as my American ones and there is no difference in quality. I get it if people are mad that NHS moved production away from Ermico and stopped supporting a foundry that has a history in skating, but it said foundry can’t meet production targets at a competitive cost there is a point where it doesn’t make sense to use them.
[close]


Bullshit, to your bullshit.

I’d prefer, to the point of paying significantly more, things to be manufactured closer to me, for a many reasons, including: jobs for people closer to me, less shipping stuff around the world, hopefully better protections for the workers, hopefully better protections for the environment.

Didn’t know you were a fucking stockholder in all major truck brands. Why the fuck do you care about their profits so much?

I buy trucks made in China. But I’d prefer to buy trucks made in the USA.

Again, all neo-con myths. Goods being produced closer doesn’t mean more or better jobs depending on the labor structure nearby and the wages and specialization required for such jobs. Ermico isn’t employing hundreds of specialized workers and its extremely unlikely they have any impact on local employment or local economy. They’re just a foundry that has been used for a while and likely just employ whatever union workers need a gig.

I don’t care about their profits more about the myths that any of this really matters. I more have an issue with skaters, who claim to be about generally libertarian, anarchist, or leftist principles being a giant oxymoron by adopting conservative talking points about things like trucks just so they sound more core.

Ok

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9535 on: December 18, 2020, 10:33:56 AM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
How have skaters not realized that the anti China talk is:

1. Bullshit. Chinese manufacturing at scale is often as high or higher quality than American. Many high end composite and metal parts are made in China in other industries.
2. Protectionist MAGA rhetoric. Literally the same shit Trump and his supporters say.

My Chinese Indys ride the same as my American ones and there is no difference in quality. I get it if people are mad that NHS moved production away from Ermico and stopped supporting a foundry that has a history in skating, but it said foundry can’t meet production targets at a competitive cost there is a point where it doesn’t make sense to use them.
[close]


Bullshit, to your bullshit.

I’d prefer, to the point of paying significantly more, things to be manufactured closer to me, for a many reasons, including: jobs for people closer to me, less shipping stuff around the world, hopefully better protections for the workers, hopefully better protections for the environment.

Didn’t know you were a fucking stockholder in all major truck brands. Why the fuck do you care about their profits so much?

I buy trucks made in China. But I’d prefer to buy trucks made in the USA.
[close]

Again, all neo-con myths. Goods being produced closer doesn’t mean more or better jobs depending on the labor structure nearby and the wages and specialization required for such jobs. Ermico isn’t employing hundreds of specialized workers and its extremely unlikely they have any impact on local employment or local economy. They’re just a foundry that has been used for a while and likely just employ whatever union workers need a gig.

I don’t care about their profits more about the myths that any of this really matters. I more have an issue with skaters, who claim to be about generally libertarian, anarchist, or leftist principles being a giant oxymoron by adopting conservative talking points about things like trucks just so they sound more core.


lol. Sound more core.





babywantsbluevelvet

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9536 on: December 18, 2020, 10:41:50 AM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
How have skaters not realized that the anti China talk is:

1. Bullshit. Chinese manufacturing at scale is often as high or higher quality than American. Many high end composite and metal parts are made in China in other industries.
2. Protectionist MAGA rhetoric. Literally the same shit Trump and his supporters say.

My Chinese Indys ride the same as my American ones and there is no difference in quality. I get it if people are mad that NHS moved production away from Ermico and stopped supporting a foundry that has a history in skating, but it said foundry can’t meet production targets at a competitive cost there is a point where it doesn’t make sense to use them.
[close]


Bullshit, to your bullshit.

I’d prefer, to the point of paying significantly more, things to be manufactured closer to me, for a many reasons, including: jobs for people closer to me, less shipping stuff around the world, hopefully better protections for the workers, hopefully better protections for the environment.

Didn’t know you were a fucking stockholder in all major truck brands. Why the fuck do you care about their profits so much?

I buy trucks made in China. But I’d prefer to buy trucks made in the USA.
[close]

Again, all neo-con myths. Goods being produced closer doesn’t mean more or better jobs depending on the labor structure nearby and the wages and specialization required for such jobs. Ermico isn’t employing hundreds of specialized workers and its extremely unlikely they have any impact on local employment or local economy. They’re just a foundry that has been used for a while and likely just employ whatever union workers need a gig.

I don’t care about their profits more about the myths that any of this really matters. I more have an issue with skaters, who claim to be about generally libertarian, anarchist, or leftist principles being a giant oxymoron by adopting conservative talking points about things like trucks just so they sound more core.

Do you know what neocon means?

Urtripping

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9537 on: December 18, 2020, 10:49:35 AM »
It is not a myth that American companies manufacture product in other countries to save money at the expense of people's lives and the environment. If regulations in China were closer to other developed nations, everyone would probably be riding American made trucks.

It is bigger than skateboarding so I have no idea how supporting American made products can be "core." It has been a bipartisan working class belief for decades.

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ballintoohard

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9538 on: December 18, 2020, 11:20:17 AM »
Interestingly there are certain industries that operate just as cleanly in China and other developing countries. It’s not 1:1. Composites are often made in China and Taiwan because there is much tighter quality controls and lower cost of making molds. The industry itself looks almost no different than it does here, and there is often more R&D money pouring in. Assuming things are universally barbaric is again, xenophobic.

And yes I know what neo con means and I classify this talking point as neo con because it first became popular in the early 1970s when manufacturing in begin to move East and picked up steam in the 80’s when economists and security scholars begin to weave social, moral, and other arguments to protectionism when they lacked the data to make typical arguments.

Urtripping

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9539 on: December 18, 2020, 12:07:27 PM »
Interestingly there are certain industries that operate just as cleanly in China and other developing countries. It’s not 1:1. Composites are often made in China and Taiwan because there is much tighter quality controls and lower cost of making molds. The industry itself looks almost no different than it does here, and there is often more R&D money pouring in. Assuming things are universally barbaric is again, xenophobic.

And yes I know what neo con means and I classify this talking point as neo con because it first became popular in the early 1970s when manufacturing in begin to move East and picked up steam in the 80’s when economists and security scholars begin to weave social, moral, and other arguments to protectionism when they lacked the data to make typical arguments.

I don't think it's xenophobic to recognize that american companies exploited the fact that China had an abundance of low wage workers and permissive regulations when moving into the global economy in the late 70's and 80's and through the years as it has developed. This is a fact, and it's how economies have historically developed. I'm not blaming China for this or hating them for it, if anything I resent the US and other major western countries for exploiting this development so hard.

Wages have risen specifically in China, and in 2020 it's manufacturing sector is obviously more complex than just sweatshops pumping toxins into the ocean. But it is a gigantic country and doesn't adhere to minimum wage laws or child labor laws everywhere.

Also, as China is still a manufacturing based economy, they will continue to pollute more than other nations and have looser environmental regulations and noncompliance with them just like the US did when it was a manufacturing based economy.
I saw your mommy and your mommy's dead