Author Topic: Truck set-ups  (Read 1220557 times)

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Urtripping

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9540 on: December 18, 2020, 12:10:48 PM »
Also sorry to everyone who just wants to learn more about skateboard truck set ups.
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ballintoohard

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9541 on: December 18, 2020, 12:31:20 PM »
I think there is a distinction here, which is what I've been unsuccessfully getting at. You're not wrong, but your average skater isn't articulating any of that. Many of the earlier arguments against Chindy's was that the QC was worse, when it was actually the same or better. Next, people were claiming about all the lost jobs, when they have no actual evidence that Ermico lost jobs or skaters were negatively impacted. It was the same types of arguments as when Nike and others entered the skate market, which have turned out to be erroneous. Lastly, I doubt many skaters are forgoing the other hundreds of products they buy yearly that are Chinese made or next day'd via Amazon. So it's sort of a complete red herring argument that people are using just to fit in.

Mbrimson88

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9542 on: December 18, 2020, 02:50:51 PM »
Did a simple test this morning as I have 2 decks with the same wheels and dimensions one with Indys and one with Venture High. I found a piece of chalk at a nearby basketball court and used a piece of string to make some circles of varying radii. I then started in the same spot with 2 pushes and just followed the circles. I was able to get the same exact performance from both trucks. The Ventures took slightly more pressure when the circle was tight. So they turn just fine.

Regardless of where they are made, I have found with almost all brands, it is all about the bushings and the clearance height for how much a truck is able to turn, as some do not have much natural clearance (wheelbite and stop without having risers or micro wheels) and others have stock bushings that would not allow the truck as full a turn as when softer (or lower tops as I do - cut down the top a mm) bushings are used.

The other side of it is finding a happy medium to suit the individuals needs too, eg not having trucks so loose that you cannot do normal tricks without causing wheelbite or wobbles, but not having them so tight that you cannot turn when you need to.

Most small kids or lighter skaters will have the same problem as big heavy guys, albeit at the opposite ends of the scale, so finding bushings that work for you will also make things a whole lot easier, if the stock bushings don't perform as needed.

It is fun for me messing around with all manner of brands and parts and a wide range of setups to see what works and what doesn't, but it can get very frustrating for a skater who doesn't have access to or know about options for their setup and is stuck trying to fix something that they don't know enough about and only have things like online help, but at least the Slap pals are able to help with opinions and product knowledge here too.

I talk too much about skateboards.  Sorry.

munchbox

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9543 on: December 18, 2020, 03:12:08 PM »
Expand Quote
Did a simple test this morning as I have 2 decks with the same wheels and dimensions one with Indys and one with Venture High. I found a piece of chalk at a nearby basketball court and used a piece of string to make some circles of varying radii. I then started in the same spot with 2 pushes and just followed the circles. I was able to get the same exact performance from both trucks. The Ventures took slightly more pressure when the circle was tight. So they turn just fine.
[close]

Regardless of where they are made, I have found with almost all brands, it is all about the bushings and the clearance height for how much a truck is able to turn, as some do not have much natural clearance (wheelbite and stop without having risers or micro wheels) and others have stock bushings that would not allow the truck as full a turn as when softer (or lower tops as I do - cut down the top a mm) bushings are used.

The other side of it is finding a happy medium to suit the individuals needs too, eg not having trucks so loose that you cannot do normal tricks without causing wheelbite or wobbles, but not having them so tight that you cannot turn when you need to.

Most small kids or lighter skaters will have the same problem as big heavy guys, albeit at the opposite ends of the scale, so finding bushings that work for you will also make things a whole lot easier, if the stock bushings don't perform as needed.

It is fun for me messing around with all manner of brands and parts and a wide range of setups to see what works and what doesn't, but it can get very frustrating for a skater who doesn't have access to or know about options for their setup and is stuck trying to fix something that they don't know enough about and only have things like online help, but at least the Slap pals are able to help with opinions and product knowledge here too.
ran all my ventures with ace bottoms and slightly shaved tops. bar the lows, they turn better than any stock indy ive rode
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ballintoohard

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9544 on: December 18, 2020, 04:15:03 PM »
Hmm Ace tall bottoms and low tops? I've got those around, might be time to fux with my shit.

Beeker

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9545 on: December 18, 2020, 04:30:49 PM »
Hmm Ace tall bottoms and low tops? I've got those around, might be time to fux with my shit.

yer life about to change

sketchyrider

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9546 on: December 18, 2020, 04:31:00 PM »
all that talk about hollow vs standard or whatever had me switch some trucks around. had to put the standards on the shaped curb setup. hollows went to the egg, since the tail is so short. truck madness can fuck those mounting holes up.

for what its worth, i lined up titaniums with the hollows and the forged plates don't extend your wheelbase a whole eighth of an inch at all, at least mine didn't.



Nicki

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9547 on: December 18, 2020, 09:47:21 PM »
Also sorry to everyone who just wants to learn more about skateboard truck set ups.

All good, amazed you spent your time on that illogical rant. So, localism is neocon? Offshoring to save costs is anti-xenophobic? What a dumpster fire.

I believe this is the correct response their confused shitstorm.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YpuRcmPnSTM

Anyway, it’d at leat be good if manufacturers were honest about where things are made. The baseplates used to say USA, now just blank. Sometimes made in China is hidden on a tag or sticker, or not at all. Weak sauce. Respect to Mullen for atleast openly saying and showing dwindle in China saying that they can save costs on production so they can use individual presses and keep price low. Same with PS, they moved to Mexico because ProfSmitt said they’d go out of biz if they hadn’t. And they print it on the board. No hiding.

It’s not complicated - The companies have two choices, put up price or reduce production costs by reducing labour costs. They can’t reduce labour costs locally because it would be illegal, so they move labour to a country that those wages aren’t illegal. Ok. So why hide the fact? Just be honest ffs.

Or even better, do both - like bones. If you can’t afford/don’t want to pay for bearings made in Switzerland, you can buy Reds made in China. Good deal, no sneaky bullshit.

Ok, enough. I’m currently riding titanium 145 hangers on the OG/Team baseplates (USA), bones yellow, washer top and bottom to correct for thunders. Love it.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2020, 10:05:16 PM by Nicki »

j....soy.....

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9548 on: December 18, 2020, 10:17:13 PM »
Pretty sure Powell intended on making the minilogo truck in the US but saw the cost so they canned it and eventually made it off shore as a price point.....

If the factories are set up right, there's no reason they can't make good trucks in China.  It's not that high end.....

Urtripping

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9549 on: December 19, 2020, 08:32:16 AM »
Quote
All good, amazed you spent your time on that illogical rant. So, localism is neocon? Offshoring to save costs is anti-xenophobic? What a dumpster fire.

I didn't say either of those things so why are you quoting me?


Quote
It’s not complicated - The companies have two choices, put up price or reduce production costs by reducing labour costs. They can’t reduce labour costs locally because it would be illegal, so they move labour to a country that those wages aren’t illegal. Ok. So why hide the fact? Just be honest ffs.

Everyone seemed to understand those two choices, we were just making cases for/against choosing to manufacture in China. Some of us here are opposed to Chinese manufacturing and our reasons had nothing to do at all with product quality. Others were making the case that Chinese manufacturing is not stuck in the past and has developed beyond criminally low wages and the use of child labor, which is true in many cases. We also knew that most companies are aware of the negative connotation attached to "Made in China," so it's pretty obvious why they wouldn't be using it as a selling point in the US where the "they took our jobs" crowd has a strong grip on politics. If you want companies to "be honest," then I wish you luck.

Just because you didn't understand what was being said doesn't mean it didn't make sense. I believe this is the correct response your confused shitstorm.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YpuRcmPnSTM


Quote
Ok, enough. I’m currently riding titanium 145 hangers on the OG/Team baseplates (USA), bones yellow, washer top and bottom to correct for thunders. Love it.

This I can get down with. Thunders and bones bushings are a perfect combination. I prefer the hard ones over the medium ones though.
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ballintoohard

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9550 on: December 19, 2020, 12:40:51 PM »
To me the xenophbia comes from assuming that all Chinese labor is sweatshops or substandard. It shows a very shallow understanding of Chinese technology and skilled manufacturing as well as developments in labor standards in some industries over the past 2 decades. As someone that had a career analyzing Asian labor economics, these arguments are the same ones being put forth in social science journals by those that also write for the Heritage foundation and universally act as if everywhere but the West has abysmal labor and safety practices. Many, many places do, but skilled manufacturing often does not. The issue I have is ignorant skaters waxing on about topics like this when they likely haven't read the news in their adult life let alone have any idea what factory is being used or where.

Also, local labor can often be very inefficient and doesn't always translate to local economic benefits versus allocating resources towards other sectors such as service or even subsets of skilled labor. Pouring trucks in SF has little impact on the economy versus say, being an electrician or before COVID, working in the service sector. "Close to home" is an antiquated argument especially if you take into account things such as the carbon impact of sourcing and shipping materials.

At the end of the day there are no real arguments for or where trucks sh0uld be made. Skaters need to stop parroting this bullshit and just say they're stoked off Bobby's part and wanna try Ventures.

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9551 on: December 19, 2020, 12:53:49 PM »
Um Ballintoohard is a fucking dork. Thats all i got to say about that

ballintoohard

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9552 on: December 19, 2020, 01:00:06 PM »
shit at least i own it

Ok

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9553 on: December 19, 2020, 01:04:00 PM »
I am not parroting shit. Wanting stuff to be made closer to where I am has a host of benefits, as some have pointed out succinctly in this thread. You, ballin, seem to be arguing with some points that folks are not making here, and those arguments you make, have some truth to them: there can be some ugly xenophobic/maga bullshit with made in the USA championing. I haven’t seen that expressed recently in this thread, if at all. The ‘Chindy’s’ thing sounds medium sus for sure, although I tend to feel like Indy gives me maga vibes on the regular. I personally don’t buy stuff on Amazon, at this point in my life, and hope to be able to keep it that way. There are many items that are not available to be purchased closer to where I live and that is generally not a good thing for the planet, or people near me. I don’t think ermico gives so many jobs that it totally changes the local economy, but some better than none. Your choice to include Nike as a positive example of overseas labor is so fucking stupid and ill timed with their recent lobbying to protect their horrifying use of forced labor.
You bring up some points, but if anyone is ‘parroting’ anything it’s you with your grab bag of buzzwords and straw man bullshit. Skateboarding is still able to be influenced by its customers, unlike a lot of other areas of our lives, so to me, purchasing stuff from the local shop, and trying to buy stuff made closer does make some sense, and it is worth it for me to vote with my dollars.
I’ll stay supporting local shit that matters to me, you can keep amassing skate products from Amazon. Like a turd.

ballintoohard

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9554 on: December 19, 2020, 02:25:44 PM »
No one has pointed out that metal goods and local foundry work has any inherent benefits. You cannot treat all labor and all goods equally. It's bullshit at best.

munchbox

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9555 on: December 19, 2020, 03:08:33 PM »
can yall do this in your pm's please
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ballintoohard

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9556 on: December 19, 2020, 04:21:56 PM »
I'm cool with letting it die. I think Indy's are still good trucks and the move doesn't matter.

Nicki

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9557 on: December 19, 2020, 10:59:23 PM »
All good, amazed you spent your time[responding to that other guy’s] illogical rant. So, localism is neocon? Offshoring to save costs is anti-xenophobic? What a dumpster fire [from that other guy].

“I didn't say either of those things so why are you quoting me?”


Well that went horribly wrong! I was trying to agree with you and support your considered responses, but somehow managed to insult you. My bad. I was obviously too drunk and not lucid enough to get my point across. Luckily OK has done it for me. I back this 100%.

I am not parroting shit. Wanting stuff to be made closer to where I am has a host of benefits, as some have pointed out succinctly in this thread. You, ballin, seem to be arguing with some points that folks are not making here, and those arguments you make, have some truth to them: there can be some ugly xenophobic/maga bullshit with made in the USA championing. I haven’t seen that expressed recently in this thread, if at all. The ‘Chindy’s’ thing sounds medium sus for sure, although I tend to feel like Indy gives me maga vibes on the regular. I personally don’t buy stuff on Amazon, at this point in my life, and hope to be able to keep it that way. There are many items that are not available to be purchased closer to where I live and that is generally not a good thing for the planet, or people near me. I don’t think ermico gives so many jobs that it totally changes the local economy, but some better than none. Your choice to include Nike as a positive example of overseas labor is so fucking stupid and ill timed with their recent lobbying to protect their horrifying use of forced labor.
You bring up some points, but if anyone is ‘parroting’ anything it’s you with your grab bag of buzzwords and straw man bullshit. Skateboarding is still able to be influenced by its customers, unlike a lot of other areas of our lives, so to me, purchasing stuff from the local shop, and trying to buy stuff made closer does make some sense, and it is worth it for me to vote with my dollars.
I’ll stay supporting local shit that matters to me, you can keep amassing skate products from Amazon. Like a turd.


I really don’t think it’s too much to ask to know where things are made. That’s what started this conversation, and still no clear answer if any Thunder (or Venture) are still US made.

Anyway, this has inspired my latest truck project is resurrecting some (USA made) mid90s trucks I found in the back of the shed, just need new kingpins, bushings, cup etc.
Guess what brand. Here’s a clue - “Name this roster” - Koston, Penny, Kalis, Markovich, Kareem.

« Last Edit: December 19, 2020, 11:20:02 PM by Nicki »

Urtripping

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9558 on: December 20, 2020, 05:53:03 AM »
Quote
Anyway, this has inspired my latest truck project is resurrecting some (USA made) mid90s trucks I found in the back of the shed, just need new kingpins, bushings, cup etc.
Guess what brand. Here’s a clue - “Name this roster” - Koston, Penny, Kalis, Markovich, Kareem.

All good, and I'm too young to remember what trucks these guys would have all been riding when they were in the same team, but didn't Kalis used to ride Orion trucks?
I saw your mommy and your mommy's dead


Nicki

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9559 on: December 20, 2020, 06:49:39 AM »
Quote
Expand Quote
Anyway, this has inspired my latest truck project is resurrecting some (USA made) mid90s trucks I found in the back of the shed, just need new kingpins, bushings, cup etc.
Guess what brand. Here’s a clue - “Name this roster” - Koston, Penny, Kalis, Markovich, Kareem.
[close]

All good, and I'm too young to remember what trucks these guys would have all been riding when they were in the same team, but didn't Kalis used to ride Orion trucks?

That’s the one - Dyrdek’s Orion Trucks!
Pure nostalgia.

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ballintoohard

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9560 on: December 20, 2020, 06:55:10 AM »
I had Orion’s, thought they were a lighter Indy. Looking at them now they look a lot like a Stage 11. Don’t remember them being bad either just not very popular. Think I got them on a Kalis AWS and rode them on an A-Team and a Bill Pepper Element that had the most insane concave I’ve ever seen to this day.

j....soy.....

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9561 on: December 20, 2020, 08:27:50 AM »
I think Orion was a tracker rebrand......

Nicki

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9562 on: December 20, 2020, 09:26:49 AM »
I think Orion was a tracker rebrand......

Really? I remember that Orion and Destructo were the first I saw with just the new school pattern, while Thunder/Venture/Indy were still running 6 holes. Destructos were way better made (if Orion was copying Indy, then Destructo copied Thunders) and were definitely the better of the two. I’m looking at them both now (both US made) and the Orion look really rough next to the Destructos. The best thing Orion had going was their team, otherwise pretty ordinary to be honest (and terrible bushings), but still a cool thing.

So you’re saying that Tracker bankrolled it/was the manufacturer? If that’s true that would be an interesting twist for sure.

Found this article on Dyrdek - https://foundr.com/brand-building-rob-dyrdek-machine.

The first business of his own was called Orion Trucks, offering a line of the T-shaped metal parts that attach the wheels to the underside of a skateboard.

Dyrdek created the concept, outlined the product idea, found a manufacturer, hand-sketched the logo and built the entire brand. He also pulled together his “dream team” of fellow professional skateboarders to serve as brand ambassadors and investors.

Through a partnership with a manufacturer in San Diego, Dyrdek officially launched Orion Trucks. And he did all of this for 0.5 percent of every sale. Although the payout wasn’t ideal, it was Dyrdek’s first tangible experience with creating something of his own, with the help of some fruitful relationships, of course.

“It was kind of my first step in soup-to-nuts brand building,” he recalls, “but it was the clear lack of financial understanding of business that led to me doing a percentage-of-sales deal, which didn’t give me much more than a royalty for all that hard work.”

Over the next few years, as the skateboarding industry overall experienced a dip, the already niche market became increasingly small, and the business opportunity ran its course. He walked away with a valuable lesson.

“There was no major opportunity . You’re selling a niche product to a niche market that’s already highly competitive, with no innovation or differentiation in the product,” Dyrdek says. “At the end of the day, really great ambassadors and high-level marketing can’t necessarily sell a product that isn’t innovative in the space.”

ok boomer

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9563 on: December 20, 2020, 06:38:26 PM »
Anyone ride Thunder 145s? I ride smaller boards, only rode 145s back in 2005 or something like that. Are these low, high or both?
« Last Edit: December 20, 2020, 06:48:19 PM by ok boomer »

LewFarrell

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9564 on: December 20, 2020, 09:00:18 PM »
Anyone ride Thunder 145s? I ride smaller boards, only rode 145s back in 2005 or something like that. Are these low, high or both?

They are low for sure. Team (cast) models are ~49mm, Lights (forged) are ~48mm.

Nicki

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9565 on: December 20, 2020, 09:03:51 PM »
Anyone ride Thunder 145s? I ride smaller boards, only rode 145s back in 2005 or something like that. Are these low, high or both?

Thunder calls them Hi’s, but really they are mids. Thunder doesn’t make lows (anymore).

Yep. I rode 145 back in the 90s, went up to 147 for a while, but then back on 145 - less weight, quicker flip, it works for me. Even if i’m riding an 8, I’ll just put in extra speed rings rather than size up. The 145 and 147 are the same baseplates, the hangers are interchangeable for 145/147, and same trucks height - 49mm with the light baseplates, 50mm with the OG/Team.

https://www.thundertrucks.com/sizing/


I’m currently riding titanium 145 hangers on the OG/Team baseplates (USA), bones yellow, washer top and bottom to correct for thunders. Love it.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2020, 09:14:11 PM by Nicki »

ok boomer

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9566 on: December 21, 2020, 05:50:42 AM »
Cool thanks. I thought I read no more lows . I think the ones I had in 06 were low but it doesn't sound much different

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9567 on: December 21, 2020, 07:08:06 PM »
I remember someone was looking for Krux DLK kingpins, saw SW has em now:

https://www.skatewarehouse.com/Krux_Downlow_Replacement_King_Pins/descpage-KXRKP.html

Also, I bought some Tensor ATG MagLights and they showed up. Hoping to setup a new board and test em out a bit tomorrow.

ballintoohard

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9568 on: December 21, 2020, 07:14:10 PM »
Got some Indy aftermarket bushings for my new Indy's.  Took the stock bushings off and they are identical to the replacements. Also, while the hangers were off I went to my closet and pulled out my aftermarket Indy pivot cups. These usually look less shiny/cleaner molding and the new ones are a match as well. So, that has improve with Indy from the move.

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Re: Truck set-ups
« Reply #9569 on: December 21, 2020, 09:27:31 PM »
Got some Indy aftermarket bushings for my new Indy's.  Took the stock bushings off and they are identical to the replacements. Also, while the hangers were off I went to my closet and pulled out my aftermarket Indy pivot cups. These usually look less shiny/cleaner molding and the new ones are a match as well. So, that has improve with Indy from the move.

The aftermarket Indy bushings might look the same but perform differently to the stock bushings, unless they have changed the stock ones since the last lot I got.  Orange in the stock are supposed to be 90 duro, but often harden up considerably, but the aftermarket orange also at 90 tend to start off a bit harder and soften up over time.  Weird but that is what I found.

I talk too much about skateboards.  Sorry.