Truck set-ups

[Mbrimson88]

It seems like the two things a user could change which would effect how a truck skates would be the stack height of the lowest washer and bushings, along with bushing durometer. Unless I am conceiving of it all wrong, I don't see how a top washer would effect a truck's performance, except nominally with how it interacts with the bushing.

Some people say the top is very important and they can feel any difference with it, but I have been using lower top bushings (either cutting them down or using the stock Indy low tops) for almost 20 years or more, as well as having to do that in the 80s when your trucks wore down too much and that was the only way to make them last longer.

It definitely changes things having a different height with the bottom bushing assembly, which I have tried and not liked at all.  Leaving the bottom as it should be and having lower heads / top bushings, with lower kingpin nuts and cutting off the top of the kingpin makes it a much easier, longer lasting setup and I don't need to buy anything else (like inverted kingpin assemblies) or do much more than grind down the kingpin and away I go for the life of the truck.

I prefer a slightly harder set of bushings (92a) with low tops which make the truck still able to turn a whole lot but not being so sloppy / loose that it is unmanageable, but any bushings can be altered to fit any setup.

[manysnakes]

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Put Krepers in my 55 classics and 159s. Used JB weld, everything seems very solid.

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For people who do the Krux, Kreper, Grindking kingpin hack how does this affect the looseness of your trucks? How loose do you normally run your trucks?

Maybe a harder question to get an answer to, but is there a difference between the three options or is it just a matter of what you can get your hands on?

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I can't speak for Indys, but I did the Ace with the Krux kingpin and I can tell you that you better like loose trucks if you go this way. There are simply not enough threads on the kingpin to really squish down your bushings in a meaningful way. I've thought about threading the bolt deeper (which might cause it to fail), but I don't have the right die, so I'd have to borrow and buy one. Alternatively, I could buy a comically expensive titanium button-head Allen bolt of the appropriate thread pitch, but I just cannot justify spending another $30 on a pair of Ace trucks worn almost to the axle.

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I've logged about 5 and change hours on my Indys with Kreper pins and they have been staying where I adjusted them to just fine (easy to keep track of with the very cool and spooky graphic etched into the top). I need to take them out tomorrow to put some riptides pivot cups in, so when I do I will compare threading length on these versus a set of Krux DLKs I have. Pics to come.

I put a Kreper in my 55 classics as well, but I haven't been feeling them so they've just been sitting. That being said, Aces have some very tall bushings so they might make it  harder to get the kingpin into the unlock zone. So maybe some taller bushings and a lower top? The cavity on Ace classics is very small, though, so the KP might stick into the board.

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To be clear, there is absolutely no problem with the Krux kingpins in my Ace trucks coming loose or moving on their own in any way. I would recommend this mod to anyone who wants to do so and who likes their trucks loose. I merely did the mod because both of the factory kingpins rattled loose from the baseplate, and I figured that instead of complaining to Ace or using JB Weld to try and keep them in place, I would experiment with the Krux kingpin.

It is entirely possible that the threads run longer with the Kreper/GK kingpin, which would allow a better range of adjustment. I've been tempted by them on eBay, maybe I'll buy a pair and provide measurements for the curious. Even if it's too long, I have a workshop and it would be simple enough to cut it down to fit.

Again though, the real problem here is the same question - how much do I want to invest into a pair of 80% worn out Ace?

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Here is a Kreper/Krux comparison photo:



Krux has about 11mm of threading, Kreper has about 17mm. So it seems like you could make the Krepers much tighter if you wanted.

I ended up buying some Kreper pins from eBay. Haven’t set them up yet, but if you’re a weight weenie it’s worth noting that they are 36g per kingpin, while the Krux Downlow come in 28g with washer.

[logjammin]

I have some older "stage 2" Ace's that are very worn down and starting to slow down on grinds due to my kingpin catching. I ride stock Ace bushings but always go no top washer, as I would with any truck since I find it always limits the full potential of the turn. Therefore, I have to crank the kingpin nut down a few threads till it gets to the point where I can't spin my bottom bushing with my finger tips.

My question is, if I knocked out these kingpins with a hammer and vice grip, since my set up allows the nylock to catch a few threads in rather than just being flush, is it safe to leave them without the JB Weld and the nut won't like vibrate loose several threads up and then end up falling off? I know I'd have to remove the trucks to loosen/tighten but I'm not worried about that part, just want to know if they're safe to roll and grind on without my hanger falling off. Shalom

[FrozenIndustries]

I have some older "stage 2" Ace's that are very worn down and starting to slow down on grinds due to my kingpin catching. I ride stock Ace bushings but always go no top washer, as I would with any truck since I find it always limits the full potential of the turn. Therefore, I have to crank the kingpin nut down a few threads till it gets to the point where I can't spin my bottom bushing with my finger tips.

My question is, if I knocked out these kingpins with a hammer and vice grip, since my set up allows the nylock to catch a few threads in rather than just being flush, is it safe to leave them without the JB Weld and the nut won't like vibrate loose several threads up and then end up falling off? I know I'd have to remove the trucks to loosen/tighten but I'm not worried about that part, just want to know if they're safe to roll and grind on without my hanger falling off. Shalom

Is there a reason that you don't want to use JB Weld? Given the size of the cavity in Aces, I don't think that you would be able to tighten them at all without the nut being welded into place.

[logjammin]

Just time and laziness, I guess. I read you can wedge a flathead to hold the nut while you tighten the inverted kingpin, so if I have like 3-4 threads engaged with the nylock I'll know it's my desired looseness and can just mount them. But if the nut has the potential to come loose and fall off, I guess I'd bite the bullet and get the JB Weld. Thanks for your response, shalom

[FrozenIndustries]

Just time and laziness, I guess. I read you can wedge a flathead to hold the nut while you tighten the inverted kingpin, so if I have like 3-4 threads engaged with the nylock I'll know it's my desired looseness and can just mount them. But if the nut has the potential to come loose and fall off, I guess I'd bite the bullet and get the JB Weld. Thanks for your response, shalom

Worth mentioning that unless you're using risers that can accommodate it, you'll need to file down a little bit of the nut due to the cavity in the Aces being so shallow (I can post pics later). So it seems like it has the potential to rattle loose.

That all being said, the JB weld thing seems kind of weird and intimidating at first, but ended up being super easy. I did it at the end of my session one afternoon and they were ready to go by the next. You've probably seen this video, but:



Just mind what he says about leaving a couple threads exposed so you have some play when getting the IKP out the first time.

[manysnakes]

The video is decent, but a couple of things worth adding

1) Use a vise, if you can. Set the jaws an inch or so apart and hammer the kingpin out that way. Don't hammer on concrete, if you don't have to.
2) Use making tape to mask off the area around the hole for much easier clean-up.
3) Make sure you set the nut initially with the kingpin in, so that it's oriented the correct direction when you reassemble the truck. Leaving the kingpin in so far, with threads sticking out, seems like a bad idea, but maybe it works for some people. I leave it in a few MM and just run a tap through it when I'm done.
4) Shaving the bushing is completely unnecessary. The geometry is not affected by the orientation of the kingpin. I suppose you'll get additional clearance, but with the inverted kingpin, you're already going to be well below the axle, so must of us will have replaced our trucks before we're going to getting hung up (unless you just have crazy dip with your Smiths)

[FrozenIndustries]

The video is decent, but a couple of things worth adding

1) Use a vise, if you can. Set the jaws an inch or so apart and hammer the kingpin out that way. Don't hammer on concrete, if you don't have to.
2) Use making tape to mask off the area around the hole for much easier clean-up.
3) Make sure you set the nut initially with the kingpin in, so that it's oriented the correct direction when you reassemble the truck. Leaving the kingpin in so far, with threads sticking out, seems like a bad idea, but maybe it works for some people. I leave it in a few MM and just run a tap through it when I'm done.
4) Shaving the bushing is completely unnecessary. The geometry is not affected by the orientation of the kingpin. I suppose you'll get additional clearance, but you're going to be well below the axle, so must of us will had replaced our trucks before we're going to be hitting that kingpin (unless you just have crazy dip with your Smiths)

Yeah, don't shave the bushings. The dude even posted in the comments that he should have said that was just his preference.

[logjammin]

Damn, judging by that video the nut and kingpin stick out a lot on the bottom of Ace plates. This sucks, might have to go back to Indy just for the IKP baseplates. With hangers ground down as much as mine, I really hang up on grinds. Thanks again for the responses guys, shalom

[manysnakes]

Damn, judging by that video the nut and kingpin stick out a lot on the bottom of Ace plates. This sucks, might have to go back to Indy just for the IKP baseplates. With hangers ground down as much as mine, I really hang up on grinds. Thanks again for the responses guys, shalom

I don't know what hardware that guy used, but I've used the stock nut that came with the Krux kingpin, and it sticks out like ~1mm at most. It would be easy enough to file it down, but since it's just sitting against a wooden skateboard deck, which will be easily as safely deformed by the nuts, I don't bother. Since I expect that Krux is just using off-the-shelf nuts, I imagine that any random 3/8 x 24tpi nut from the hardware store would behave the same way.

[Damoforce]

Does anyone know the height of Tensor Mag Light Lows. The Regular are 55mm just wondering what the lows are.

I think they may work on steeper decks?

[logjammin]

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Damn, judging by that video the nut and kingpin stick out a lot on the bottom of Ace plates. This sucks, might have to go back to Indy just for the IKP baseplates. With hangers ground down as much as mine, I really hang up on grinds. Thanks again for the responses guys, shalom

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I don't know what hardware that guy used, but I've used the stock nut that came with the Krux kingpin, and it sticks out like ~1mm at most. It would be easy enough to file it down, but since it's just sitting against a wooden skateboard deck, which will be easily as safely deformed by the nuts, I don't bother. Since I expect that Krux is just using off-the-shelf nuts, I imagine that any random 3/8 x 24tpi nut from the hardware store would behave the same way.

Dude I actually realized I have some modus risers, and although they stick out a little bit, they have a hole cut out where the kingpin is, so I can run em without the nut digging into the board. I'll try to post pics of it all finished, shalom

[cosmicgypsies]

It seems like the two things a user could change which would effect how a truck skates would be the stack height of the lowest washer and bushings, along with bushing durometer. Unless I am conceiving of it all wrong, I don't see how a top washer would effect a truck's performance, except nominally with how it interacts with the bushing.

i'm no engineer or truck mad scientist, this info was passed on to me by a fellow slap pal with an engineering background, but i can only back it up with my anecdotal experiences.

lets say you have a truck with the regular cone styled washers. if you look on the inside of the hangar around where the washer sits, you'll notice scratches/gouge marks from the washer itself. the info i was told is that this pinch from the washer can exert extra force on kingpins, eventually leading them to snap, plus the coned edge of the washer can dig into the top bushing and fuck it up (check the venture thread for posts on this). however in my experience it also feels like the larger washer restricts the range of movement, as it will pinch/hit the hanger if you turn too deep. ofcourse you can still turn but there's definitely some restriction imo.

again, purely anecdotal evidence but i swapped the regular venture top washer with a flat bones washer and i was definitely able to run them looser/carve better.

[Mbrimson88]

Yes definitely.

I recall some older Indy trucks just didn't work and only turned so far with the washers that were on it when it came to my attention, with very clear metal marks on either side of the bushing area.

Swapped out the really big top metal washer for a smaller one and the trucks turned so much better.

I have also seen some people mistakenly put the bottom washer on top and caused similar issues.


As long as there is still enough bushing to hold the washers off the hanger, there will not be any issues with turning, even if it is cut right down or has compressed almost to nothing, which I have on some of my older boards.

Those bones washers, small, flat and very thin definitely make things different too, as do other flat washers you can get from a hardware store.

[Xen]

Setup my new 149 tit indys...one axle was machined weird (or not enough), it was difficult  to get the wheels on (one more than the other), but not so bad I thought it to be a major issue, and once on, wheel is so difficult to get off the bearing will stay the axle when I yank the wheel off and it's impossible to get the bearing off...I've tried everything, started to bang off the bearing to no use, so now I've got a bronson ceramic stuck mid axle on a truck I can't fucking use, fucking livid right now.

Newer China-indys, no cross and 149 under the hanger.

Leaving it as is (yes those are hammer to truck rage marks (bearing still spins).

[moonordie]

Setup my new 149 tit indys...one axle was machined weird (or not enough), it was difficult  to get the wheels on (one more than the other), but not so bad I thought it to be a major issue, and once on, wheel is so difficult to get off the bearing will stay the axle when I yank the wheel off and it's impossible to get the bearing off...I've tried everything, started to bang off the bearing to no use, so now I've got a bronson ceramic stuck mid axle on a truck I can't fucking use, fucking livid right now.

Newer China-indys, no cross and 149 under the hanger.

Bad luck
I have the same ones and they're great. As soon I return back home I'll get some Films 5.5, i want a little magic carpet.

[Xen]

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Setup my new 149 tit indys...one axle was machined weird (or not enough), it was difficult  to get the wheels on (one more than the other), but not so bad I thought it to be a major issue, and once on, wheel is so difficult to get off the bearing will stay the axle when I yank the wheel off and it's impossible to get the bearing off...I've tried everything, started to bang off the bearing to no use, so now I've got a bronson ceramic stuck mid axle on a truck I can't fucking use, fucking livid right now.

Newer China-indys, no cross and 149 under the hanger.

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Bad luck

Indeed.

Bunk set of ACE AF1s...Bunk set of Indy TI...I should jsut fucking ride thunder or go back to tensor

Super bummed as I was setting it up to skate, sort of ruined the mood. Reached out to NHS, they're going to sort me out with replacements; I'd be fine with just a new hanger and one bearing :{

Was planning on fulltime switch to indy 149s starting this weekend, now I have to default to something else...

[fs1/2cab]

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Setup my new 149 tit indys...one axle was machined weird (or not enough), it was difficult  to get the wheels on (one more than the other), but not so bad I thought it to be a major issue, and once on, wheel is so difficult to get off the bearing will stay the axle when I yank the wheel off and it's impossible to get the bearing off...I've tried everything, started to bang off the bearing to no use, so now I've got a bronson ceramic stuck mid axle on a truck I can't fucking use, fucking livid right now.

Newer China-indys, no cross and 149 under the hanger.

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Bad luck

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Indeed. Super bummed as I was setting it up to skate, sort of ruined the mood. Reached out to NHS, they're going to sort me out; I'd be fine with just a new hanger and one bearing :{

Was planning on fulltime switch to indy 149s starting this weekend, now I have to default to something else...

Woah that is such a bummer mate and would ruin my mood too. I had that once happen with old Thunder's. Can you push the bearing toward the hangar again or is it stuck there? If you can push the bearing back a bit you can use a metal file on the axle. Or maybe the bearing itself is causing the problem and you can file something off?

[Frank and Fred]

Are truck companies using slightly thicker axles? This might make sense for bearing efficiency but it could also have caused Xen's problem. I believe Ace were advertising doing this at one point and I had a stubborn bearing stuck on an Ace axle but I got it loose, thankfully.

[manysnakes]

Setup my new 149 tit indys...one axle was machined weird (or not enough), it was difficult  to get the wheels on (one more than the other), but not so bad I thought it to be a major issue, and once on, wheel is so difficult to get off the bearing will stay the axle when I yank the wheel off and it's impossible to get the bearing off...I've tried everything, started to bang off the bearing to no use, so now I've got a bronson ceramic stuck mid axle on a truck I can't fucking use, fucking livid right now.

Newer China-indys, no cross and 149 under the hanger.

Leaving it as is (yes those are hammer to truck rage marks (bearing still spins).

If you have access to an automotive bearing puller, I expect you could remove that ceramic bearing without damage.

[Xen]

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Setup my new 149 tit indys...one axle was machined weird (or not enough), it was difficult  to get the wheels on (one more than the other), but not so bad I thought it to be a major issue, and once on, wheel is so difficult to get off the bearing will stay the axle when I yank the wheel off and it's impossible to get the bearing off...I've tried everything, started to bang off the bearing to no use, so now I've got a bronson ceramic stuck mid axle on a truck I can't fucking use, fucking livid right now.

Newer China-indys, no cross and 149 under the hanger.

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Bad luck

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Indeed. Super bummed as I was setting it up to skate, sort of ruined the mood. Reached out to NHS, they're going to sort me out; I'd be fine with just a new hanger and one bearing :{

Was planning on fulltime switch to indy 149s starting this weekend, now I have to default to something else...

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Woah that is such a bummer mate and would ruin my mood too. I had that once happen with old Thunder's. Can you push the bearing toward the hangar again or is it stuck there? If you can push the bearing back a bit you can use a metal file on the axle. Or maybe the bearing itself is causing the problem and you can file something off?

It's pretty much stuck right in the damn middle of the hanger...bearing is fine as I was riding them on my 159s - pretty sure I'm going to bork the bronson in getting it off (you're only as fast as your slowest bearing right?)...and even then, it's a titanium axle, not sure how much me filing is going to do..it sort of looks like it's bulging a bit (hence the tight fit)

[Firebert]

I have a set of Titanium 144s that have that same problem to a lesser extent. One of the axles is a tight fit, preventing side to side play, but not bad enough to where it pulls the bearing out of the wheel. That's insane - maybe has something to do with titanium...

[Goggzy60]

I normally ride indys but just got a set of Destructo’s for free. Has anyone skated these recently? Are they any good? I have mostly been skating ledges recently coming back from some serious injuries so makes most sense to try them now.

[bbk]

I skated the d1 mids, mag baseplate with hollow kingpin and superlites, cast plate with hollow kingpin, and I loved them. Got axle slip on both sets, but they were great 'til then.

[moonordie]

I have a set of Titanium 144s that have that same problem to a lesser extent. One of the axles is a tight fit, preventing side to side play, but not bad enough to where it pulls the bearing out of the wheel. That's insane - maybe has something to do with titanium...

Now I feel so lucky regarding my Ti149

[Goggzy60]

I skated the d1 mids, mag baseplate with hollow kingpin and superlites, cast plate with hollow kingpin, and I loved them. Got axle slip on both sets, but they were great 'til then.

Thanks for the info I’ll set these up and try get some axel slip on them, I have only got axel slip on indys once usually skate indys for 2 years before needing to change.

[Xen]

I have a set of Titanium 144s that have that same problem to a lesser extent. One of the axles is a tight fit, preventing side to side play, but not bad enough to where it pulls the bearing out of the wheel. That's insane - maybe has something to do with titanium...

I have a set of Titanium 144s that have that same problem to a lesser extent. One of the axles is a tight fit, preventing side to side play, but not bad enough to where it pulls the bearing out of the wheel. That's insane - maybe has something to do with titanium...

My set of 144s is totally fine :\

[Vitriol]

Setup my new 149 tit indys...one axle was machined weird (or not enough), it was difficult  to get the wheels on (one more than the other), but not so bad I thought it to be a major issue, and once on, wheel is so difficult to get off the bearing will stay the axle when I yank the wheel off and it's impossible to get the bearing off...I've tried everything, started to bang off the bearing to no use, so now I've got a bronson ceramic stuck mid axle on a truck I can't fucking use, fucking livid right now.

Newer China-indys, no cross and 149 under the hanger.

Leaving it as is (yes those are hammer to truck rage marks (bearing still spins).

You could try dis to generate more force

[moonordie]

^ best instructions ever

[logjammin]

So I went out and bought the same gorilla glue clear epoxy as the guy in that YouTube video and did it just like him, I poured way too much in there and it gooped all over my baseplate and I had to wipe it a lot. I didn't think to get all up in the threads with a q-tip to wipe away any epoxy before it hardened, but I did a decent job with just a paper towel. Good thing I had nitrile gloves that shit was a toxic mess. I have a strong feeling I fucked up and it's gonna harden and I won't be able loosen or tighten the inverted kingpin because the threads will be bonded. I suck at anything remotely handy.

I tried to wiggle the stock ace kingpins before I hammered them out to see if they were loose at all, they weren't. But I noticed one baseplate I can wiggle the inverted kingpin back and forth quite a bit, while the other one only slightly. Does anyone know if the hole is going to keep widening causing the kingpin to have even more wobble? I guess that's why they put the shaft nut in those Indy baseplates shalom