Truck set-ups

[Xen]

Went back to my Thunder teams after skating Indys standards for awhile. My switch tricks just work so much better on Thunders, so I was thinking... Maybe I should get some Indy forged, or mids, so I get a lower height and quicker pop.
What you guys think? Its tough to go away from indys smooth grinding, and ofc that baseplate slide!

Only 1.5mm diff between the forged and standards, bigger difference in weight.

If you are trying to target Thunder height, you should look to Indy mids: standards=52mm or go Forged Mids for a lower truck = 50.5mm; both will still still heavier than Thunders.

[IpathCats]

Went back to my Thunder teams after skating Indys standards for awhile. My switch tricks just work so much better on Thunders, so I was thinking... Maybe I should get some Indy forged, or mids, so I get a lower height and quicker pop.
What you guys think? Its tough to go away from indys smooth grinding, and ofc that baseplate slide!

As someone who just switched from indy titanium 144s to thunder team hollow 148s, i can tell you my switch tricks deff work better on the thunders. the shorter WB on indys give you a lighter popfeel, but its more vague and less snappy than a thunder. they also turn better, so by nature they're less stable, which makes it a little harder to setup for flip tricks, especially when going fast compared to thunders.

The baseplate issue with the thunders is manageable for me. My fs noseslides have suffered the most since the switch. but im adapting, and they're getting better.

Long story short, if what you're worried about is flip tricks, i would stay on the thunders personally.

[Boog]

I'm riding Indy 144 standard hangers on forged hollow baseplates with bones hard bushings. I was on venture for a while but I think I have to just accept the fact that I'm an Indy guy. I just have more fun with my skating on them and they are more visually appealing to me.

[Vintagebody]

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Went back to my Thunder teams after skating Indys standards for awhile. My switch tricks just work so much better on Thunders, so I was thinking... Maybe I should get some Indy forged, or mids, so I get a lower height and quicker pop.
What you guys think? Its tough to go away from indys smooth grinding, and ofc that baseplate slide!

[close]

As someone who just switched from indy titanium 144s to thunder team hollow 148s, i can tell you my switch tricks deff work better on the thunders. the shorter WB on indys give you a lighter popfeel, but its more vague and less snappy than a thunder. they also turn better, so by nature they're less stable, which makes it a little harder to setup for flip tricks, especially when going fast compared to thunders.

The baseplate issue with the thunders is manageable for me. My fs noseslides have suffered the most since the switch. but im adapting, and they're getting better.

Long story short, if what you're worried about is flip tricks, i would stay on the thunders personally.

A lighter and lower indy should provide more snap tho? I was thinking about trying some indy titaniums too, bcuz they weight nearly the same as my Thunders, and are 1,5mm lower then indy std

[LebowskisRug]

I've had all of these and currently ride Indy Standards. I have liked all of them, but the mid is the most comparable to Thunders overall. Honestly the weight difference isn't noticeable to me. The kingpin bolt is quite heavy and kept coming loose on my so I switched. I'd say my preference in trucks is Indy Standard Hollow -> Indy Forged Hollow/Thunder Teams ->Indy Mid Hollow (not forged) -> Venture Cast -> Indy Forged Ti -> Thunder ti hollow lite.

It's hard to go on numbers alone honestly.

[IpathCats]

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Went back to my Thunder teams after skating Indys standards for awhile. My switch tricks just work so much better on Thunders, so I was thinking... Maybe I should get some Indy forged, or mids, so I get a lower height and quicker pop.
What you guys think? Its tough to go away from indys smooth grinding, and ofc that baseplate slide!

[close]

As someone who just switched from indy titanium 144s to thunder team hollow 148s, i can tell you my switch tricks deff work better on the thunders. the shorter WB on indys give you a lighter popfeel, but its more vague and less snappy than a thunder. they also turn better, so by nature they're less stable, which makes it a little harder to setup for flip tricks, especially when going fast compared to thunders.

The baseplate issue with the thunders is manageable for me. My fs noseslides have suffered the most since the switch. but im adapting, and they're getting better.

Long story short, if what you're worried about is flip tricks, i would stay on the thunders personally.

[close]

A lighter and lower indy should provide more snap tho? I was thinking about trying some indy titaniums too, bcuz they weight nearly the same as my Thunders, and are 1,5mm lower then indy std

a lighter and lower indy will make your tail travel less before it hits the ground, with less effort. The snappiness comes from the thunders pushing your WB out more, effectively shortening your tail, and making it a bit more difficult to push your tail down, but that gives you a more drastic effect when it hits the ground.

Imagine how quick and easy it would be for your tail to hit the ground if your back truck was in the middle of the board, but it would do so with little effort, and wouldnt really snap that well.

It's all about finding what works for you. This is just my experience. If you feel like you're missing something from your thunders, go for it. I've tried plenty of shit.

[j....soy.....]

Thunders are just plain lighter and lower, so while it pushes the wheelbase out, it’s still less work than an Indy.  I also think the geo which is more stable, less turny makes a difference in the pop, especially when popping from the pockets….I noticed this with thunders and ventures….

[IpathCats]

Thunders are just plain lighter and lower, so while it pushes the wheelbase out, it’s still less work than an Indy.  I also think the geo which is more stable, less turny makes a difference in the pop, especially when popping from the pockets….I noticed this with thunders and ventures….

In my case of indy titanium vs team hollows, I think the weight is pretty similar, Indy's might even be lighter. 1.5mm height difference. Personally, I really notice the effects on wb since I'm tall and have long legs. I'm able to put my feet in much more natural positions for flip tricks now on the thunders, really enjoying them.

[yourbreakfsat]

Paul Schmitt and truck wheelbases

For #SkateScience Saturday I dig into your actual wheelbase with different truck brands.

Each brand designs there trucks differently and geometry is what’s discussed the most. When combined with how the baseplate is drilled creates your actual axel to axel center which is your wheelbase.
When you cross refence marketing of hanger or axel length with inches and millimeters it can all be confusing.

I made my Truck Design Wheelbase Variable Analization Jig and I took it to @Pacific_Drive yesterday and @SoulGrindSkateShop today to analyze trucks, both of these longstanding core #SkateShops are located in Pacific Beach

I have brass pins that are in line with the inside truck holes and place a pair of trucks on it.
I then take a caliper and zero it on the axel diameter and then measure from axel to axle on a new pair of trucks.

I found out the variables and share a number here for you. These are stock trucks with stock bushings and adjustment.
As you tighten your trucks the axel to axel distance will reduce a small amount. The height of the truck will also reduce as you tighten your trucks.

The trucks just like the #FindersOfFlat are part of the #TriangleOfLeverage that is a scientific way to compare the changes in your completely assembled #SkateBoard.

2.69” Ace Classic 44 @acetrucks
2.89” Krux Standard 8.5” @kruxtrucks
3.00” Indy 144 Hollow @independenttrucks
3.29” Classic 145 @thundertrucks
3.01” Tensor Mag Lite 5.75” @tensortrucks
3.32” Venture 5.2” Polished @venturetrucks

Add the wheelbase of your actual board to get you actual wheelbase.
For example, a board with a 14” Wheelbase with Aces would be 16.69” The same deck with Ventures would be 17.32”
This may seem small to you but this percentage of .0377% can make a big difference in how setup rides.

As you can see above changing from a Ace Classic to a venture will change your axel to axel wheelbase by .63”
As skaters we figure out what we like. Trying to share some #SkateScience to help you understand it better.

#LearnSomethingDaily
#NeverStopTeaching
#NeverStopLearning
#PaulSchmitt
#ProfessorSchmitt
#ProfessorPaulSchmitt
#SkateScienceSaturday

[tzhangdox]

Analization Jig

[LebowskisRug]

Man it's rough when you misspell your own hashtag and go to shops and measure trucks and don't pay attention to which baseplates you measure. How do I know this? Because I was in Pacific Drive on Friday and just checked out the truck case and all the Thunders were lights same with most of the Ventures thus forged plates.

[goodatmeth]

Paul Schmitt is such a confusing character to me. Is he smart? Is he really stupid?
He's definitely really really bad at spelling. But also where did he get this "percentage of .0377%" from?
Seems like he's bad with numbers too.
Hope he's at least doing well on the analization

[Plan9Customs]

Finders of flat…

[LebowskisRug]

The real question is does he even skate?

[rocklobster]

Analization Jig

Thunder Classic 145, does he mean 147? At this stage I think Slap has done a better job of cataloging truck WB adjustments, sorted by brand / size / standard / hollow etc.

[Mbrimson88]

Thunder Classic 145, does he mean 147? At this stage I think Slap has done a better job of cataloging truck WB adjustments, sorted by brand / size / standard / hollow etc.

I guess it depends on brand, or how much the terminology is mixed up, eg:

Classic = Team edition = Standard
 (Ace)       (Thunder)        (Indy)

I would be more surprised that anyone usually has any Thunder 145 (7.62) or 143 (7.125) in stock, but I guess even the kids ride 8+ board sizes here in AU and a shop that caters for everyone would have all sizes in USA.

https://www.thundertrucks.com/sizing/

[Frank and Fred]

Honestly, there is a nerdy  neurotic compulsion here on SLAP that leads  me  to trust this thread more than Paul Schmitt.

[Ok]

Honestly, there is a nerdy  neurotic compulsion here on SLAP that leads  me  to trust this thread more than Paul Schmitt.

I love his contributions, passion.

I’ve posted about this before, but in my opinion, when he’s spewing this information, it feels like he throws out tidbits of information, and then leeeeaps to other tangentially connected information quickly, and then again, in a way that I feel like I’m being hustled. Or to say it another way, when I was a young waiter and didn’t know much about wine, someone would ask questions about a bottle and I would blurt out everything I’d ever heard about the winery, wine making process…just on and on, dancing around and just saying stuff hoping we could just move on.

So yeah, I totally trust a group of internet nerds more on measuring something.
What I hope for when listing to Schmitt is little bits of information to understand more about: (I apologize) board-fit. He seems incapable, and/or unwilling to spit it all out in a way I’m able to follow.

[Mbrimson88]

The real question is does he even skate?

I had to go looking and did find a few interesting things.

SCHMITT STIX team video 1987 Skateboarding

A video on youtube from 1987 was definitely not worth posting here, mainly just having fun on a 6 ft backyard mini ramp with a few team riders, but I could definitely see why a couple of those guys had their names on boards, like Lucero and Nolder,  among others.

A few other pics and things here and there, I guess this one being maybe the most interesting interview and pic:

https://juicemagazine.com/home/paul-schmitt/

https://juicemagazine.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/schmitt1-2.jpg


Apart from that, I can appreciate the interest (and the boards back around 2000 era) but don't go too deep with anything from him.

I think everything else has been covered by other people here anyway.

[manysnakes]

The real question is does he even skate?

He definitely does and is “old guy-good”. He used to post photos and videos, but fell and broke a bone (maybe his hip?) and I haven’t seen anything since then.

[manysnakes]

Paul Schmitt is such a confusing character to me. Is he smart? Is he really stupid?
He's definitely really really bad at spelling. But also where did he get this "percentage of .0377%" from?
Seems like he's bad with numbers too.
Hope he's at least doing well on the analization

I *think* he’s trying to describe the difference in offset between two trucks, but without some kind of baseline, it’s more or less useless.

[intendedreceivers]

Expand Quote

Paul Schmitt is such a confusing character to me. Is he smart? Is he really stupid?
He's definitely really really bad at spelling. But also where did he get this "percentage of .0377%" from?
Seems like he's bad with numbers too.
Hope he's at least doing well on the analization

[close]

I *think* he’s trying to describe the difference in offset between two trucks, but without some kind of baseline, it’s more or less useless.

Yeah. He divided his measured difference in wheelbase by the original wheelbase itself (.63/16.69), which is .0377, but he forgot to move the decimal point, so It’s actually 3.77%.

However, that number is pretty useless for comparison purposes because, like you said, it *only* applies to a baseline combo of an Ace truck on a board drilled to 14 in. Percentages are bogus in measurements like these. Too much complexity and too many variables.

[manysnakes]

Expand Quote

Expand Quote

Paul Schmitt is such a confusing character to me. Is he smart? Is he really stupid?
He's definitely really really bad at spelling. But also where did he get this "percentage of .0377%" from?
Seems like he's bad with numbers too.
Hope he's at least doing well on the analization

[close]

I *think* he’s trying to describe the difference in offset between two trucks, but without some kind of baseline, it’s more or less useless.

[close]

Yeah. He divided his measured difference in wheelbase by the original wheelbase itself (.63/16.69), which is .0377, but he forgot to move the decimal point, so It’s actually 3.77%.

However, that number is pretty useless for comparison purposes because, like you said, it *only* applies to a baseline combo of an Ace truck on a board drilled to 14 in. Percentages are bogus in measurements like these. Too much complexity and too many variables.

Yeah, there's no baseline here. I don't have any good ideas myself, but I would be curious to know if any of the engineers, machinists or even hobbyists here have a better suggestion for some type of jig with a standardized baseline.

[manysnakes]

What’s the recommended non-JB Weld epoxy (two-part or otherwise) for adhering the nut of your kingpin to the baseplate? I've had JB twice fail on me, and I know someone here said they had a better adhesive.

[Xen]

Goes through that whole process and doesn't measure Thunders?

The real question is does he even skate?

'yeeew'

[PuffinMuffin]

What’s the recommended non-JB Weld epoxy (two-part or otherwise) for adhering the nut of your kingpin to the baseplate? I've had JB twice fail on me, and I know someone here said they had a better adhesive.

Devcon plastic steel epoxy is the only adhesive that hasn't failed on me. I roughed the application area up with a file, then cleaned it thoroughly. I feel like epoxies work much better in a square recessed area than in a circular one (like stage 10 Indy's).

[dirtjers]

Currently running Venture 5.8’s totally stock. Was thinking of doing the Bones top washers for some extra surf, since I have some laying around anyway.

This leads me to my question: Is this healthier or gnarlier for the top bushing?

Did a quick search and found varying opinions throughout the last year or so, but wasn’t sure what the consensus was.

My conventional wisdom says the stock too washer would be more damaging because it can cut into the bushing- but who knows.

[Xen]

Fresh Thunder TI 149s
Flat sleeved washers
NGF 95a low top (feels much softer tho)
Venom 86a bottom (sanded down about 1mm)

Been riding various 148/161 Thunders of late, cast/forged, ollies are good, balance point good, wheebite is shit (148s on 8.3s).

Bushing-wise after playing with indy/nfg conicals and stock, I took my own advice and slapped in the Venom 86a bottom bushing and they're as good as I remember; easily the next best thing to stock if you want something a little softer with waaaaaaay more rebound - coming off the NFG bottoms it's night and day. With the better rebound and sleeved washers I get out of wheelbite territory much faster, even on forged plates.

I threw in the low nfg top, doesn't seem to make a different other than it being low so I can actually get the pin to catch the nylock and have it turn better than stock (too tight using stockheight, nut flush). But honestly any lower top would work just fine.

[Boog]

Currently running Venture 5.8’s totally stock. Was thinking of doing the Bones top washers for some extra surf, since I have some laying around anyway.

This leads me to my question: Is this healthier or gnarlier for the top bushing?

Did a quick search and found varying opinions throughout the last year or so, but wasn’t sure what the consensus was.

My conventional wisdom says the stock too washer would be more damaging because it can cut into the bushing- but who knows.

The bigger question is do you want to sacrifice better rebound for more turn? Because in my experience with venture if I run a flat top washer I get better turn but the bounce back to center is not as good.

[LebowskisRug]

I have a weird rattle/creaking coming from the front truck of my Indy Hollows. I took the truck apart and it's not the kingpin and the pivot cup seems fine. I waxed the bottom of the bottom washer but it still sounds kind of like a metallic rattle when I land anything or a creak when I turn. I don't ride my trucks very loose. Any ideas?