football anyone? as in soccer...

[Mooley]

Is Rooney physically incapable of jumping more than 6" high? Such good service out there and he was pathetic at getting on the end of it. But all fingers have to be pointed at Milner, terrible game.

Gerrard, however, is having one hell of a tournament.

[Matze]

ibrahimovic's goal was pretty neat. I'm kinda glad that ukraine is out of the tournament and even more glad that england is still in. hoping for some legendary match against germany

[weedpop]

Is Rooney physically incapable of jumping more than 6" high? Such good service out there and he was pathetic at getting on the end of it. But all fingers have to be pointed at Milner, terrible game.

Gerrard, however, is having one hell of a tournament.

I didn't think Gerrard was all that great in this game, however, in the first half his cross-field balls were literally the only way England were able to move the ball forward.

Rooney is short and didn't have a particularly good game either. England were really lucky to win this one and will need even more luck to go through against Italy.

Does Ukraine's no-goal provide more of an argument for goal-line technology or for offside replays? Hmmm..

[Alan]

The game is crying out for video technology.

Also, the commentator mentioned the ball swerving in the air a couple of times. I thought this was solved after the 2010 fiasco (or was it 2006/8)?

[thepman]

OMG Assistant Ref!  How utterly useless are you!?

The player was offside anyway so shouldn't have been a goal either way

[weedpop]

"Football is a game where one goal makes all the difference. we need goal line technology RIGHT NOW!"

"But what about the offside that didn't get called? Surely that would have unduly affected the game as well."

"OMG where will it end?! Video replay is too slow, we need to respect the referee's authority!" etc., etc.

In fantasy fag news, my Rancid Bonobos are in at 3rd in the SLAP league despite the fact that I am terrible at selecting the right players.

[cringe.]

Is Rooney physically incapable of jumping more than 6" high? Such good service out there and he was pathetic at getting on the end of it. But all fingers have to be pointed at Milner, terrible game.

Gerrard, however, is having one hell of a tournament.

literally, i'm personally bitter that rooney will probably get praised in headlines tomorrow when he deserves ignominy, and i wish milner didn't keep getting played he can do one too. kinda felt sorry for ukraine in this match, we didn't deserve to win....  ah well im happy. Gerrard's a top lad though

on a side note milner, rooney and carroll are really making us look like a country of neanderthal oafs interspersed with the occasional overdeveloped metrosexual scott parker-types

[Alan]

Shit, when Parker got that ball to the side of his head I thought they were going to bury him then and there.

[thepman]

Expand Quote

Is Rooney physically incapable of jumping more than 6" high? Such good service out there and he was pathetic at getting on the end of it. But all fingers have to be pointed at Milner, terrible game.

Gerrard, however, is having one hell of a tournament.

[close]

literally, i'm personally bitter that rooney will probably get praised in headlines tomorrow when he deserves ignominy, and i wish milner didn't keep getting played he can do one too. kinda felt sorry for ukraine in this match, we didn't deserve to win....  ah well im happy. Gerrard's a top lad though

on a side note milner, rooney and carroll are really making us look like a country of neanderthal oafs interspersed with the occasional overdeveloped metrosexual scott parker-types

Haha nah, Scott Parker looks like he's just stepped off a battlefield in World War 1 with that haircut

[weedpop]

Scott Parker plays like a badass so the fact that he is better looking than the entire Ireland squad combined is insignificant.

[chockfullofthat]

Expand Quote

OMG Assistant Ref!?  How utterly useless are you!?

[close]

The player was offside anyway so shouldn't have been a goal either way

I missed that.  I had a bad connection and it just cut right through what had happened, I only saw the clearance like 5 times.

[holden caulfield]

I thought you were an England fan? Shouldn't you be happy with the call?

France v Spain is going to be an amazing game, the two most technical sides facing off.

Sucks for Italy that they lost Chiellini...I could see that game going to penalties.

Also holy fuck @ Ibra's goal....

[pica]

lemme say one thing to all the video analysis - chip in the ball debate....

it should be possible to play soccer under the same conditions in all countries and places of the world, no matter if it's old trafford or timbuktu.
therefore it should stay the way it is.
also if the refs get technical assistance there won't pass much time and the players will ask for it as well. vibrating chips in your socks showing if you stand in the offside or not, headsets to communicate, you name it.

nahnah boy,the game is good as it is.

[chockfullofthat]

@ holden No.  I'm completely neutral for the Euros...I'm an American. 

@pica.  Not a fan of that argument.  All it takes is a quick look at the camera to spot offsides on the run back to the circle and goal line technology just must be brought in.  That's where I'd draw the line...no video review for fouls or penalties.

[pica]

i can see why people would like to have a goal line camera, but seriously if the players have no technical assistance why should the ref have?
and don't say for the money the teams loose.
the coaches would challenge anything the whole time, a game would go for at least 2,5 hours...
who needs this?
also you may not like to hear it, but i like how a ref ain't no robot and can fail from time to time, and i've learned to appreciate it if the ref does a good job.
still i question why the goal line ref is positioned on the same site of the field as the side line ref.... in my opinion it would make much more sense to replace him with another side line ref on the other side of the field. i'd make it one ref and 4 sideline assistants.
if you would have videomonitoring the whole interaction between players and the refs gets lost.
keep the game analog.
this is a good watch btw.

[Alan]

it should be possible to play soccer under the same conditions in all countries and places of the world, no matter if it's old trafford or timbuktu.
therefore it should stay the way it is.

But they're not, though, are they? Playing conditions are much better in Europe just from of all the money being thrown at the clubs. It should be in FIFA/UEFA's interest that the game is as fair as possible, so they should fund the technology (and it's availability).
Also, it has been mentioned in other debates that perhaps both teams could use the technology only a limited amount of times, like it's done in tennis.

[chockfullofthat]

i can see why people would like to have a goal line camera, but seriously if the players have no technical assistance why should the ref have?
and don't say for the money the teams loose.
the coaches would challenge anything the whole time, a game would go for at least 2,5 hours...
who needs this?
also you may not like to hear it, but i like how a ref ain't no robot and can fail from time to time, and i've learned to appreciate it if the ref does a good job.
still i question why the goal line ref is positioned on the same site of the field as the side line ref.... in my opinion it would make much more sense to replace him with another side line ref on the other side of the field. i'd make it one ref and 4 sideline assistants.

You've watched football...you know just how little time it takes to spot an offside goal.  Saying the game would last 2.5 hours is insane.  Instead of surrounding the field with referees, just keep 1 on the field, the 2 linesman, the fourth official, and one dude who can check a close goal.  If it's too close to tell, it's a goal.  Easy.  I don't think the coaches should be involved at all.  No "challenges" of whatever.

[pica]

Expand Quote

it should be possible to play soccer under the same conditions in all countries and places of the world, no matter if it's old trafford or timbuktu.
therefore it should stay the way it is.

[close]

But they're not, though, are they? Playing conditions are much better in Europe just from of all the money being thrown at the clubs. It should be in FIFA/UEFA's interest that the game is as fair as possible, so they should fund the technology (and it's availability).
Also, it has been mentioned in other debates that perhaps both teams could use the technology only a limited amount of times, like it's done in tennis.

i'd be totally down for 11 refs.
but seriously i just enjoy the remaining risk of referees mistakes.
it's the drama the game needs and it's a part that keeps it interesting and entertaining.
i'm always bummed that there are no wrong referee decisions and players blacking out, spitting  even having a small brawl from time to time when playing PES 2011.

of course training and field conditions, are better in europe but the game itself is the same all over the world.

 i think you're just bummed cause croatia would have done better with an offside camera. on the other hand i'm just happy that my england bet worked out.
by the way when will you have your furious return to vienna alan?
i'll discuss this with you during a cold brew at heldenplatz some time...

[holden caulfield]

Nahhh Pica im gunna have to side with the other guys. Im all for refs with their own personalities and what not, and I even enjoy controversial calls etc, but I do believe technology should be introduced for just those 2 things, offsides, and goals. there is simply too much money, and too much at stake, to rely exclusively on refs on such matters.

your argument about how it should be the same game all over the world is just wrong. losing a friendly match in some random league is not at all the same thing as losing it on a stage like the Euros. There is simply too much at stake.

also your argument that it would slow the game down is also weak. it would literally take 5 seconds to check. it's like how the NFl introduced that new rule last season in which every single td is now automatically reviewed upstairs. It hasnt actually slowed the game down at all. Most of the tds are obvious and you cant even tell they were reviewed because they do it so fast.

[Alan]

I can see that it wouldn't be fair for the 3rd world countries, but the shitty reffing needs to stop. I'm totally pro video technology because bad decisions usually end up hurting the weaker teams. As I said, let FIFA pay for it, fuck em, they can afford it.

Yeah, one of my dream scenarios is an exciting game, at least 3 goals and then a massive brawl 10 minutes from time with 6 red cards, then having the ones who weren't sent off finish the match.

I don't know when I'll be coming back, probably around xmas. But if you come down here the couch is yours!

[Alan]

there is simply too much money, and too much at stake, to rely exclusively on refs on such matters.

Seriously, fuck the money, fuck the champions league, and fuck the capitalist bludgeoning of the sport. This is about fairness, and everyone has the right to equal reffing. It's up to the governing bodies to provide for this.

[weedpop]

Saying that football should be exactly the same across all leagues and levels is stupid, because it's not - unless you want to start a charity to provide every under-financed pub team with a $50,000 real grass pitch and all the latest equipment. Just because the technology isn't currently practical for lower/less monied leagues, doesn't mean that it shouldn't be applied in the interest of fairness in the leagues that can actually afford it. And yes, FIFA should do whatever they can to make it available to other countries/associations as well.

Generally I just get frustrated by the drama created by shitty refereeing, not excited by it, and either way, the entertainment of fans is less important than fairness for the people who are most invested in it i.e. players and teams.

Pretty much every other sport has brought in video replay in the last few years without "ruining" anything or extending games beyond the limits of watchability. Even if you reviewed every goal for offside/"did it cross the line?" it would still take less time than it usually does to celebrate the goal in the first place. I do think it should just be for goals though - or MAYBE one or two "challenges" for plays that are wrongly called offside, with the team that lost possession getting a free kick from the position that the pass was made from.

[pica]

i enjoy the mistakes for the fact that it's one of the last analog games in an over-technologized world.
i love this game because it has so many unpredictable components, that all sum up to make every single game of soccer different from another.

all the hidden spitting at each other, the insulting, the hidden fouls nobody sees...the brawls, the offside goal that wasn't one, the given goal that was offside all the wembley goals scored in the history of soccer... it's what keeps it epic.
at least for me.

and for another matter a lot of players would have to admit that they've played pretty bad without any refs to blame.

and besides that "keeping the game the same in all leagues and countries" ain't my very own arguement, some FIFA official said it on TV a few weeks ago.
before that i never thought about it that way, but i can see his point.
if a big team gets their potential goal video checked, how can you simple refuse this to a small league?
soccer is played by the FIFA rules in almost all countries and leagues in the world.
THE SAME RULES.
 if it's about fairness, why should any team or league be privileged then by getting video replay or a chipped ball?
simple because they can afford it?
"this might have been a goal, hard to say if you would play in the premier league you could have it video checked, but you ain't. so by my decision i'm giving it/ain't giving it - sorry".
that's even more unfair.
sooner or later your local pub team will put his money into video technology instead of youth programs, simple for the fact that "the others/the pros" have it.
to me that sounds more unfair than teams loosing games due to human failures or mistinterpretations of game situations.
fuck money that's no arguement, not at all.
and besides that all in all the refs did an excellent job for most of the part during this euro so far.

i'm taking it one step further: videotechnology would do to soccer what the berrics did to skateboarding. weaking it.
  
it's the same as it is in life, you have to live with wrong decisions.
but so does everybody from time to time, and that's what i call fair.

[weedpop]

if a big team gets their potential goal video checked, how can you simple refuse this to a small league?
soccer is played by the FIFA rules in almost all countries and leagues in the world.
THE SAME RULES.
 if it's about fairness, why should any team or league be privileged then by getting video replay or a chipped ball?
simple because they can afford it?
"this might have been a goal, hard to say if you would play in the premier league you could have it video checked, but you ain't. so by my decision i'm giving it/ain't giving it - sorry".
that's even more unfair.

Most of what you said makes no sense, so I'm just going to address this.

This would not be "refusing" technology to small leagues. FIFA should help them to pay for it if possible and try to get the cost down as much as they can, but even if they can't afford it or  can't make it work for infrastructure reasons, they are not being "refused" the advantage of technology.

None of the rules in question (offside, what constitutes a goal) would be changed by this technology, just applied more effectively. Everyone would still be playing by essentially THE SAME RULES.

In this case "fairness" means the extent to which the rules are properly applied in a freely agreed upon competition between two teams. If the technology was applied in one league and not the other, it would still increase fairness overall if you view each missed call across all leagues as "-1 fairness". Teams from different leagues competing against each other (eg. champion's league) would have the same amount of access to the technology within the game in question, so their would be no imbalance there. More correct calls in premiere league games would not make incorrect calls made in, say, the Turkish league any more "unfair". They would just seem worse in comparison.

The only problems for me are whether it could be evenly used in international qualifiers and infrastructure problems that might make it hard for newly promoted teams or teams with crappy stadiums to install the technology.

[chockfullofthat]

Raining goals in Gdasnk.  That Greek goal really killed my point tally.

[weedpop]

^^ Same here. I had Neur and Hummels starting thinking this would be a clean sheet for Germany. Should have picked Lahm I guess.

[Mooley]

I made a bunch of impulse decisions after the group stage thinking I was going to take some time later to refine things a bit. I didn't end up doing that, and ended up with Nani and two players that didn't even start up front. I'm pretty much fucked for this round.

Game today was entertaining as fuck though. Reus hammering that volley in off the bar when he could have passed it into the net made my day.

[weedpop]

Germany are looking even more scary after this match. They completely changed out their "1st choice" front 3, brought in klose, reus and schuerrle and still looked brilliant and cohesive going forward. I honestly think that they could have kept Greece from scoring if they hadn't gotten complacent at the beginning of the second half. They have more squad depth than Spain and a better, more effective system (at least at the moment); the only player they couldn't easily replace is Ozil, I think.

I really hope we get to see them against Spain. I'd like to see to what extent the Spanish possession game can stifle their play, and how effective they can be on the counter. They look like the best team in the tournament without question right now, though.

[Matze]

goetze will be as good as oezil in the near future.

game was fun. I still can't believe that the germans can play in such a beautiful way. this genaration has something different.

[pica]

france did it like forrest.... NOT REALLY TRYIN, and that for almost the entire game.