Author Topic: A World Without CEOs  (Read 85648 times)

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Maple Syrup

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Re: A World Without CEOs
« Reply #270 on: February 17, 2007, 07:07:15 PM »
who read that

sebastian toombs

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Re: A World Without CEOs
« Reply #271 on: February 17, 2007, 07:27:37 PM »
the literate amongst us?


Lomaz

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Re: A World Without CEOs
« Reply #272 on: February 17, 2007, 09:07:58 PM »
I especially like headache's suggestion #3.  If you make a shapes that are still functional but different, that's something that a blank wouldn't be able to pull off cause you'd know it would be a rip off of a pros deck.  Rodney Mullen over the years basically changed the deck shape for it to become a freestyle board.  Now it's so generic and plain that's there's hardly and difference between any of the decks.

They also should think hard about their graphics.  All the one's on the wall nowadays are so unoriginal that some shop decks have better graphics.

CHIANG MAI

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Re: A World Without CEOs
« Reply #273 on: February 18, 2007, 01:38:14 AM »
maybe itll be a good thing if big board companys die out. and we'll be left with the companies who arent in it for the money, the cool companys that arent trying to brain wash little kids. the companys that cater to real skaters and not just kids who think smoking and drinking beer is cool because their favourite pros do it.
skateboard media is so embarassing right now, everything from transworld to the television commercials make me embarassed to be a skater. thats why for me i just pay attention to the local scenes whether it be toronto or chiang mai or kuala lumpur. skate shops, local rippers, local companys... etc. thats my vision of what real skatebaording is right now.

I taste blood

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Re: A World Without CEOs
« Reply #274 on: February 18, 2007, 08:31:02 AM »
Headache said some good stuff, but it seems that everyone else has just been bitchin and moaning like their friends at IASC.
I don't really get it, I read all of that crap in the IASC thing and it didn't seem directed at the kid buying a new board. I took as they were trying to inform shops that they're being duped by blank board manufacturers that don't skate or support skateboarding. It seemed really over the top, but these companies inspire us all in one way or another and just because we're not pro or don't run a company doesn't mean we should be bitter as those who are making a living from skateboarding.

If you hate them for that, don't buy their crap and tell your friends that you know a lot about the skateboard industry and they should trust you and not buy their crap either. Realistically though, it doesn't seem that any of the "Slap Pals" would ever buy pro boards anyway, so everyone's getting all psyched up to not buy even more. I guess the bright side is that the heads of all the companies get to read the other side, although Headache has been the only person with any real suggestion of a solution.

Grim's site is done well and he's obviously talented, but it's just as much of extreme propaganda as the IASC thing except the target isn't some unknown person, it's industry heads that people know a lot about. Propaganda is propaganda whether it's from a purist in Louisiana or an old freestyler, it just depends on what propaganda you want to buy into.

Let's use this energy to do something rad for skateboarding like; throw a local contest or skate jam, or start a non-profit organization to help underprivileged kids afford to skate. (I'm sure the enemies at IASC would donate product in order to look like they care.) Maybe even volunteer to teach a skate camp or class at a local park or parking lot where you can show beginners how to not push mongo.

Seems like this type of stuff would help skateboarding more than complaining about some rich dudes.

grimcity

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Re: A World Without CEOs
« Reply #275 on: February 18, 2007, 09:14:44 AM »
Headache said some good stuff, but it seems that everyone else has just been bitchin and moaning like their friends at IASC.
I don't really get it, I read all of that crap in the IASC thing and it didn't seem directed at the kid buying a new board. I took as they were trying to inform shops that they're being duped by blank board manufacturers that don't skate or support skateboarding. It seemed really over the top, but these companies inspire us all in one way or another and just because we're not pro or don't run a company doesn't mean we should be bitter as those who are making a living from skateboarding.
You're right, the IASC document wasn't targeted at your typical skateboarder... we weren't meant to see it. I know this for a fact. Some of it was over the top, which I think makes it worse... it's more proof that there's a wall of seperation between the industry and skateboarders.

Beyond that, I think there are very few people that would argue that generic blanks only benefit the blank manufacturers and the shops to some degree... but my main beef is that there are those in the industry who don't differentiate between blanks, shop decks, and city-wide regional brands. Once a core shop or regional crew makes a board (many times using the same channels and wood shops that the big boys use) then the argument is moot. Yes, pros inspire some people to skate, but not like a core shop or local crew. It's all local. I didn't get inspired to skate in 1985 because of Christian Hosoi, I got inspired to skate because of neighborhood kids that were riding shitty K Mart boards. I skated for a year before I even knew there were professional skateboarders.

As it stands, if anyone's bitter at pros, that's their business. Personally, I'm bitter at an industry that forgot it's roots. All skate scenes are local... as cliche' as an example as this might be, just look at Dogtown and Z... that's regional, that's shop. I'm stoked that skateboarding has blown up, but I refuse to have an industry make an attempt at talking shit about me behind my back.

Quote
If you hate them for that, don't buy their crap and tell your friends that you know a lot about the skateboard industry and they should trust you and not buy their crap either. Realistically though, it doesn't seem that any of the "Slap Pals" would ever buy pro boards anyway, so everyone's getting all psyched up to not buy even more. I guess the bright side is that the heads of all the companies get to read the other side, although Headache has been the only person with any real suggestion of a solution.
I'm pretty sure that plenty of Pals are riding pro boards. I never made any attempts to tell anyone they shouldn't continue to do so. I'm strictly calling out what I (and many others) see as bullshit.

Quote
Grim's site is done well and he's obviously talented, but it's just as much of extreme propaganda as the IASC thing except the target isn't some unknown person, it's industry heads that people know a lot about. Propaganda is propaganda whether it's from a purist in Louisiana or an old freestyler, it just depends on what propaganda you want to buy into.
I call it a response, but if you want to call it propaganda, feel free to do so. It is what it is to whoever looks at it.

Quote
Let's use this energy to do something rad for skateboarding like; throw a local contest or skate jam, or start a non-profit organization to help underprivileged kids afford to skate. (I'm sure the enemies at IASC would donate product in order to look like they care.) Maybe even volunteer to teach a skate camp or class at a local park or parking lot where you can show beginners how to not push mongo.
I can only speak for my scene and say that we do all of the above. The shop I volunteer geek-stuff for is responsible for all of the legwork involved with getting Louisiana's only proper public concrete skatepark (not counting the Shreveport plaza, because that place sucks dick and did more to hurt skating there than it did to help), our shop runs a used board program, where me and all of the locals give over our used equipment so kids with no money can get wheels, decks, and trucks for free, and I'm a member of the Skatepark Association of Baton Rouge, where we fought and won the fight for legislation that took liability away from government entities in the case of skateboard-related injuries that might take place on government property designed for skaters to roll on. I really don't think my situation is unique, either.

PS
The shop I support isn't even affected by this debate. No blanks (with the exception of Powell mini logos) and every brand in house is backed 100% by the owner.

Quote
Seems like this type of stuff would help skateboarding more than complaining about some rich dudes.
I guess we'll find out soon enough.

suckafoo

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Re: A World Without CEOs
« Reply #276 on: February 18, 2007, 09:25:24 AM »
I have no problem buying a pro board at all. I usually ride shop boards though, and I do understand the IASC villifying blanks. What I don't agree with is a bunch of millionaires villifying shops for selling shop boards and blanks, which provide a far greater margin opportunity than a pro board does. The fact is, all the people in that book built themmselves some real cushy lifestyles when skateboarding blew up in 2001-2002, and they want to continue to live those lifestyles. I have no problem with those guys making money at all, I will not fault them for being savvy buisnessmen, but almost all of these guys are doing is taking from skateboarding....not giving back. These brands are selling short the amount of influence that local shops have....the skateboarding business is run on emotion.....shops drive the brands that they want to drive. If a bunch of kids at a shop are into 5boro, then the shop is going to sell shit-tons of 5boro. If a bunch of shop kids think Jamie Thomas is a kook, then they won't be selling any Zero.

I actually think this might really backfire on these brands that are in the "Under Fire" book. There are plenty of pissed-off shop owners out there who don't want to read about a bunch of whiny millionaires.
Well I believe in the devil....and nothing scares me more than Keyser Soze.

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Re: A World Without CEOs
« Reply #277 on: February 18, 2007, 09:59:25 AM »
i ride shop boards because they give them to me, if dwindle or blitz wants to start giving me boards then ill stop riding the shop boards. until then, you can all eat a dick, but not mine. i need it.
               DGK
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grimcity

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Re: A World Without CEOs
« Reply #278 on: February 18, 2007, 10:28:23 AM »
Two Site Updates:
1. I just republished (and published for the first time) a series of essays from a guy named Bud Stratford. From what I understand, a lot of people in the industry see him as a kook, but I personally think he says a lot of interesting things. It's a series of long, informally written reads, but I think a lot of it is solid because so much of it was written before this shit came to a head.
I made the essays available here:
http://www.aworldwithoutceos.com/BudStratford/

2. I just pointed out something that I personally feel is bullshit, called "Transworld Skateboarding vs Transworld Biz." This is a perfect example of the industry saying one thing to skaters and another thing to retailers... and it must be noted that Transworld's involvment in this is deep. As well as being the publisher of both the over the counter TWS and behind-the-counter "Under Fire," they're also "Associate Members" of the IASC. To me, this sums up one of the biggest problems in the world of skaters vs. industry... they think we're stupid.
http://www.aworldwithoutceos.com/TransVsItself/



sebastian toombs

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Re: A World Without CEOs
« Reply #279 on: February 18, 2007, 10:57:55 AM »
just read all his stuff; that bud stratford fellow is pretty clear and to-the-point...   i can see why no mag would want to publish any of his stuff!

and about the magazines...   none of them exist to provide any kind of critical (let alone objective) news or ideas about skateboarding.  tws biz comes closest, but it is 'objective' only in the way the business, real estate, or 'autos' section of your daily newspaper are (or cosmopolitan, etc): they exist to valorize, validate, and support the existing way things are done.  with TWS being an associate member of the IASC cartel, there is no way they will ever take any perspective other than that of the industry insider.   shop talk, tradeshow gossip, and message boards like this are the only way to get critical information about skateboarding.


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Re: A World Without CEOs
« Reply #280 on: February 18, 2007, 12:18:03 PM »
i'm almost done reading all of his essays, but i just wanted to add this: isn't it ironic that up until now, the companies have been ever so proud on the fact that they started listening to their pro skater for produtc feedback? you get advice from people who get the stuff for free and don't care at all if the products lasts a bit longer (one good example - suede shoe - easyto break in, but wear down in a day)...

take for example zero: 2-3 years ago, thomas said he used around 10 decks per month... in 2006 sandoval said he goes trough 30-35 decks per month <- the product is that much better i guess (or has the braincell minimum fallen deeper than ever, and the stair count gone out of hand)...back to reading

MAGIK INC GROUPIE

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Re: A World Without CEOs
« Reply #281 on: February 18, 2007, 12:33:11 PM »
can someone breakdown headache's post in like 2-3 sentences. I'm interested in hearing but wanna skate today.


Here's a start...

Does it really matter where your board is coming from if quality isn't comprimised???
I can think of a whole lot of stuff that I own that isn't from America. Why would I let this
effect me? Are the guys saying to buy usa only driving around in Chevy's and domestics?
Why all of a sudden is buying goods made abroad so bad?

golgo13

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Re: A World Without CEOs
« Reply #282 on: February 18, 2007, 03:04:19 PM »
When someone finally gets it right it wont matter, because everyone will start using it. right now id say most china boards are subpar, but a few are pretty close.

256 Ply

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Re: A World Without CEOs
« Reply #283 on: February 18, 2007, 04:40:29 PM »
It's a faustian bargian. Most products made in China get knocked off by the same factory using what's called a third shift. So expect to see same  decks flood the market (i.e. not counterfeit). This hurts the brands, shops, and pros.

256 Ply

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Re: A World Without CEOs
« Reply #284 on: February 18, 2007, 04:51:10 PM »
Transworld biz is more interesting to read than every skate mag out today. Sure, it's business oriented, but they usually have some different viewpoints within an article showing both sides. Go back to the April 1998 issue, it had "Blank Future?" on the cover discussing the exact same issue that's being brought up once again. Skateboarding really is cyclical...

somekid

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Re: A World Without CEOs
« Reply #285 on: February 18, 2007, 04:52:53 PM »
can someone breakdown headache's post in like 2-3 sentences. I'm interested in hearing but wanna skate today.


Here's a start...

Does it really matter where your board is coming from if quality isn't comprimised???
I can think of a whole lot of stuff that I own that isn't from America. Why would I let this
effect me? Are the guys saying to buy usa only driving around in Chevy's and domestics?
Why all of a sudden is buying goods made abroad so bad?

for kids with no hope of going pro, but still possessing a deep love/dedication for skating, a warehouse/factory/etc. job in the industry is a way to stay connected to skateboarding through their early adult years... as production moves overseas, these jobs dry up. first it was trucks and t's, then it was wheels, and now its boards. its a "last straw" kinda scenario, i think.

not everyone can work as a photog/filmer/writer, so to a lot of kids stuck in nebraska, counting the days till they graduate and move out of mo' basement, a grunt job in the industry looks pretty good. (the fact that they'll have to try to live in southern california on a 10 dollar an hour job notwithstanding)

suckafoo

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Re: A World Without CEOs
« Reply #286 on: February 18, 2007, 07:37:33 PM »
Speaking of the IASC....while were on the topic (I suppose it IS the topic). From the "greed-and-controlling-magazines" department...a well-placed little birdie told me that the IASC had the NERVE to go to The Skateboard Mag and just about DEMAND free advertising. Can you believe these motherfuckers? It's a good thing TSM told them to go piss up a pole. Here is a start-up magazine who is trying like a motherfucker to not accept any 'outside the industry' advertising, and the IASC (lets call them the Billionaire Boys Club) has the nerve to ask for free advertising.

The more I hear, the angrier I get....
Well I believe in the devil....and nothing scares me more than Keyser Soze.

DrNewton

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Re: A World Without CEOs
« Reply #287 on: February 18, 2007, 08:09:52 PM »
Speaking of the IASC....while were on the topic (I suppose it IS the topic). From the "greed-and-controlling-magazines" department...a well-placed little birdie told me that the IASC had the NERVE to go to The Skateboard Mag and just about DEMAND free advertising. Can you believe these motherfuckers? It's a good thing TSM told them to go piss up a pole. Here is a start-up magazine who is trying like a motherfucker to not accept any 'outside the industry' advertising, and the IASC (lets call them the Billionaire Boys Club) has the nerve to ask for free advertising.

The more I hear, the angrier I get....

Imagine the Big Brother articles if it were still around today.
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Re: A World Without CEOs
« Reply #288 on: February 18, 2007, 08:37:41 PM »
That's odd, because The Skateboard Mag is one of their members:
http://skateboardiasc.org/membership.asp

grimcity

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Re: A World Without CEOs
« Reply #289 on: February 18, 2007, 08:57:25 PM »
That's odd, because The Skateboard Mag is one of their members:
http://skateboardiasc.org/membership.asp
The strangest thing on that page is the "Lifestyle Members" section... I mean, the fact that the section exists at all. I'm pretty sure it makes the baby Jesus cry.

Lifestyle, fah shu.

sebastian toombs

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Re: A World Without CEOs
« Reply #290 on: February 18, 2007, 09:17:47 PM »
i dont see highspeed anywhere...

suckafoo

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Re: A World Without CEOs
« Reply #291 on: February 18, 2007, 09:37:48 PM »
That's odd, because The Skateboard Mag is one of their members:
http://skateboardiasc.org/membership.asp

If you review the list, it is full of contradictions....Powell is on there, and they probably haven't sold a board that WASN"T blank in a minute.
Well I believe in the devil....and nothing scares me more than Keyser Soze.

golgo13

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Re: A World Without CEOs
« Reply #292 on: February 18, 2007, 09:48:33 PM »
i dont see highspeed anywhere...
or girl/chocolate

somekid

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Re: A World Without CEOs
« Reply #293 on: February 18, 2007, 10:26:58 PM »
Expand Quote
i dont see highspeed anywhere...
[close]
or girl/chocolate
probably cause they knew what a shitstorm this whole thing would cause, and (smartly) are gonna sit this one out.

I taste blood

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Re: A World Without CEOs
« Reply #294 on: February 19, 2007, 02:23:58 AM »
Grim, rest assured, that my reply was not intended to call you out, it was merely to state that your site by definition is propaganda (similar yet with a different objective to IASC) and to try and encourage some that may not be as involved as yourself. I think it's rad your so passionate about your local scene and although you may not care about pros, I like to see busenitz or whoever tearing it up in the vids, it gets me psyched to skate, so I want to support that...even if it's only to buy a video or a magazine.

Regarding all of this business crap, I'm sure all of this negative press for the IASC members will cause everyone to question their future involvement with the organization. So, it will probably dissolve for the most part and everyone can try to get back to the way things "used to be".

It's just so complicated, because there are rad things about every company out there, big or small, whether it be the riders, the artist or the dudes that work in the warehouse. Yet, everything seems to just get all lumped together. Politics suck, but they seem to exist in any thriving industry.

Most likely the companies that actually care for skateboarding will support the shops and carry on and the companies that are in it strictly for the money will be exposed and suffer accordingly.

...and the message board hate will continue to thrive.


I taste blood

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Re: A World Without CEOs
« Reply #295 on: February 19, 2007, 02:32:27 AM »
Oh and Grim, I know you're sharp, but here's the definition of "propaganda" for your convenience.

Propaganda [prop-uh-gan-duh] –noun
1. information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc.

2. the deliberate spreading of such information, rumors, etc.

Provided by Dictionary.com
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

Sleazy

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Re: A World Without CEOs
« Reply #296 on: February 19, 2007, 04:26:35 AM »
It is propaganda but I wouldn't call it extreme unless you are saying that because you like wack slang. Couldn't really tell what you were doing with all the rads floating around in your post.

If you industry faggots aren't willing to talk too Grim's main point about selling to chain stores at a lower price and it's affect on core shops, that we actually care about, then get fucked with these conversational PR  post (aka propaganda). Sadly, the average age on the board here is much higher than 12 and you guys aren't fooling anyone with that shit.

grimcity

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Re: A World Without CEOs
« Reply #297 on: February 19, 2007, 04:47:12 AM »
Grim, rest assured, that my reply was not intended to call you out, it was merely to state that your site by definition is propaganda (similar yet with a different objective to IASC) and to try and encourage some that may not be as involved as yourself. I think it's rad your so passionate about your local scene and although you may not care about pros, I like to see busenitz or whoever tearing it up in the vids, it gets me psyched to skate, so I want to support that...even if it's only to buy a video or a magazine.
I just think that "propaganda," in its common use, holds a negative and kind of ominous connotation. And though I know it's not the case each and every time, I usually imagine that the people spreading propaganda  have something to gain from it. Either way, it's all good.

Also, I never said that I don't "care" about pros... like I said on the main page of the site, I'm stoked on them. That doesn't mean I agree with the executives in the industry. I am getting a bit jaded at some of the pros though, as they're looking more and more like puppets these days. From the leaked document:
Quote
Have 12 top pro’s standing in row with blindfolds on simulating them on death row and the last days of pro skateboarding (jt)
Top pro skateboarder quoting “you don’t have to buy mine, just buy somebody’s” (rh)
It's not the pros I have a beef with... it's the money-hungry industry that seems to have lost touch with the average skater.

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Re: A World Without CEOs
« Reply #298 on: February 19, 2007, 05:56:09 AM »
It's not the pros I have a beef with... it's the money-hungry industry that seems to have lost touch with the average skater.

Exactly and everytime one of you faggots come on here to try and defend your position, it just makes it worst. You guys don't care about the Pro's, they are an expendible, marketing resource to you guys and honeslty most of you wouldn't know good skating if you saw it.

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Re: A World Without CEOs
« Reply #299 on: February 19, 2007, 07:41:59 AM »
Expand Quote
i dont see highspeed anywhere...
[close]
or girl/chocolate

This might have been posted before...a response to the dwindle ad from lakai

http://www.lakai.com/06/index.php

Quote
2/05/2007

Uhhhhh, appreciate the mention here guys, but for real, you might want to rethink this strategy just a little bit--right idea, wrong approach. Maybe try looking at it in broader terms for a second. Like, say you're one of the many car consumers that's recently decided on buying a hybrid vehicle because $400 a month in gas was starting to get old. Shortly after, you start seeing ads by a slumping car manufacturer named GM that say "Every time you don't purchase an SUV from General Motors you are saying I donate to the Nazi regime." Doesn't exactly inspire you to run out and pick up a new Escalade now, does it? Look, GM lost $12 billion last year and they have thus far managed to avoid calling people that buy Prius' communists (at least not in print), so it seems like you might be able to do a little better than this as well. If not, please kindly omit us next time. Thanks.