Have corpo shoe brands lost their edge now they dominate the industry?

[Sk.A.T.A.N]

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and I dont know the money they are paid but I'm sure its not under the law minimum wage, which is what people would get in Portugal too, the minimum. We just need to compare cost of living aswell, you can live with a lot less in vietnam than in europe, so what may sound bad its not so bad in the end, they spend a lot less in general (cheap food, rent...).

[close]

This is quite an oversimplification and makes it sound like they have it good, when the fact is that even if the working conditions may be better than 30 years ago, the workers are still being exploited. Why do you think they go on strike? Btw, can they afford to buy the product they're producing?

They probably cant, but you just need to put it in perspective, those brands are a rich thing in those countries, like an Mercedes is a rich car in Portugal and a common car in Germany... If I think that the minimum wage and cost of living should be balanced arround the world? I do, that just doesnt happen from night to day.
I just think its a hilarious argument to throw the "corporation have sweatshops and children wprking for them" in the corp vs skate-owned, like the skater owned brands are doing any better or improving anything, they most likelly pay their workers even worse because they dont have the resource to pay much.

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And you cant just start paying more to people out of nowhere, that causes economical instability and problems.

[close]

Hahaha, sorry, but this is a ridiculous argument. Like, Adidas or their contractors could well afford to pay their workers better, but they aren't because they care. "Economic instability" is code for lowered profits cause by raising wages, and we know corporations can't have that.

No, I'm not saying that they dont pay because they care, off course the margins are huge and they like it that way.
But its not like they can increase the salary from night to day, that impacts lots of stuff. What I meant with my statement is that after reading and seeing all that shit in the internet I was expecting some behemoth of a sweatshop with babies assembling shoes, and sincerelly after seeing with my eyes it didnt looked worse then when my parents were working in furniture factory in Portugal.
Sweatshops with inhumane conditions exist, thats for sure, thats why you can go to a Primark and you buy all those 15/20€ shoes, but I believe that big shoe corps like improved a lot their working conditions in the last 15 years or so... They have restrict rules about working conditions, they dont want any scandal to burn their image in the consumer view and I do believe that the factories working for them really obey those same rules.

[smellsdead]

wasnt there some sort of adidas college sports bribery scandal?
sounds legit

[pizzafliptofakie]

I used to care for the shoe industry. I only bought core brands. My feet hurt for years. Now I don't care and started wearing Nike. My feet are happier and they last longer. Stupid me.

I don't understand where this claim of a quality gap comes from, because I've skated various brands and to me that claim seems straight up false. Vans and Emerica are my go-to, but I've bit the bullet and had a few pairs of Adidas and even some Nikes given to me by friends and to me that difference is just complete hyperbole. Honestly, the Nikes hurt my feet more than anything. The Adidas were fine enough, but this idea that zero skateboard shoe companies make a quality product is complete bullshit.

[ImportantGuy]

Ever since I started wearing Adidas shoes and threads I can sw fs heel like Lucas and my heels never bruise.

[Atiba Applebum]

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Still amazing to me that both nike or adidas aren't making more original  pro models. Considering the size of the teams. It's mostly colorways and small mods of existing shoes? You have Prod Janoski and Koston on nike getting designs, Busenitz is a samba, Lucas a indoor super.

[close]

Sales driven and cost. Everyone wants what's been proven, seems like risk taking is at a minimum. Slap an embroidery on another old shoe and it's an easy sell. By sell I mean from company to retailer, kids in the streets decide from there. There are also expenses to new toolings and designs, royalties, etc so the companies need to weigh that vs the return on it. Because business.

[close]

Ok but when you generate 20 to 30billions a year, it might seem like you could afford a little risk. It's just disappointing to see legendary guys not getting proper pro shoes.

I’d say look at other sports.  Not that many basketball players get pro shoes, even less in other sports. 

In terms of Nike original pro models, I wouldn’t particularly say any of the 10 PRods were successful, the two Salazars or Project BA (though I liked them both), and Koston’s last one was a dud.  Janoski’s success likely cancelled out all these other factors

[j....soy.....]

You are a complete fucking moron if you ever thought they had an "edge" and didn't realize the current state was coming. These are skate divisions of giant soulless corporations, not a crew of skaters who decided to start a brand to realize their vision for what skating should be. They do market research, figure out what image people want, and create that image. In the end, as much domination of the market as possible is and must be the final goal of any publicly traded corporation by law. They knew to tread lightly when they came in, appear to support the underground/overlooked heroes to hide their true intentions, knock out the competitors, and then become the large generic shoe monoliths they are in every other sport market. It was a strategy, not a change of heart. The only thing about skaters they care about are their wallets.
The fact that this very obvious approach to marketing fooled so many skateboarders depresses me. As a culture, we once were smarter than that.

They arguably had an edge when you compare them up against skate companies who at the time every kid and their mother were buying from skate shops at the mall.....skateboarding had already comodified and sold its style out to non skaters......you remember when you could look at a kids shoes and you knew he skated?  When that stopped....it was like the bees dying...and that's not on Nike...

[ImportantGuy]

Bart Simpson cutting off Jebediah Springfield's head had an edge. Wearing Nikes while most skaters still had DC, Emerica, Etnies etc. amounts to little more than a fashion choice.

[Manolo]

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Still amazing to me that both nike or adidas aren't making more original  pro models. Considering the size of the teams. It's mostly colorways and small mods of existing shoes? You have Prod Janoski and Koston on nike getting designs, Busenitz is a samba, Lucas a indoor super.

[close]

Sales driven and cost. Everyone wants what's been proven, seems like risk taking is at a minimum. Slap an embroidery on another old shoe and it's an easy sell. By sell I mean from company to retailer, kids in the streets decide from there. There are also expenses to new toolings and designs, royalties, etc so the companies need to weigh that vs the return on it. Because business.

[close]

Ok but when you generate 20 to 30billions a year, it might seem like you could afford a little risk. It's just disappointing to see legendary guys not getting proper pro shoes.

[close]

I’d say look at other sports.  Not that many basketball players get pro shoes, even less in other sports. 

In terms of Nike original pro models, I wouldn’t particularly say any of the 10 PRods were successful, the two Salazars or Project BA (though I liked them both), and Koston’s last one was a dud.  Janoski’s success likely cancelled out all these other factors

I get it but its sort of a tradition in skateboarding. And i agree if you're a struggling brand but it just sound cheap when you're a big corporation taking over skateboarding biggest names.

[paraquat]

Ishod should have 3-4 original pro models under his belt by now.

[Alan]

They probably cant, but you just need to put it in perspective, those brands are a rich thing in those countries, like an Mercedes is a rich car in Portugal and a common car in Germany... If I think that the minimum wage and cost of living should be balanced arround the world? I do, that just doesnt happen from night to day.

It doesn't because the corporations don't want it to happen.

I just think its a hilarious argument to throw the "corporation have sweatshops and children wprking for them" in the corp vs skate-owned, like the skater owned brands are doing any better or improving anything, they most likelly pay their workers even worse because they dont have the resource to pay much.

I agree completely!

No, I'm not saying that they dont pay because they care, off course the margins are huge and they like it that way.
But its not like they can increase the salary from night to day, that impacts lots of stuff.

Again, they could make it work, and relatively fast, if they wanted to. But capitalism isn't about that.

Sweatshops with inhumane conditions exist, thats for sure, thats why you can go to a Primark and you buy all those 15/20€ shoes, but I believe that big shoe corps like improved a lot their working conditions in the last 15 years or so... They have restrict rules about working conditions, they dont want any scandal to burn their image in the consumer view and I do believe that the factories working for them really obey those same rules.

They do business in Asia because of lower costs, but also because of looser regulations. The two are intertwined.

Also, the only way their image could be tarnished is if their factory burned down and killed a bunch of people, like the H&M one in Bangladesh. No one in the West gives a shit if the Vietnamese strike because of low wages or whatever, so it doesn't even make the news over here.

[Atiba Applebum]

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Still amazing to me that both nike or adidas aren't making more original  pro models. Considering the size of the teams. It's mostly colorways and small mods of existing shoes? You have Prod Janoski and Koston on nike getting designs, Busenitz is a samba, Lucas a indoor super.

[close]

Sales driven and cost. Everyone wants what's been proven, seems like risk taking is at a minimum. Slap an embroidery on another old shoe and it's an easy sell. By sell I mean from company to retailer, kids in the streets decide from there. There are also expenses to new toolings and designs, royalties, etc so the companies need to weigh that vs the return on it. Because business.

[close]

Ok but when you generate 20 to 30billions a year, it might seem like you could afford a little risk. It's just disappointing to see legendary guys not getting proper pro shoes.

[close]

I’d say look at other sports.  Not that many basketball players get pro shoes, even less in other sports. 

In terms of Nike original pro models, I wouldn’t particularly say any of the 10 PRods were successful, the two Salazars or Project BA (though I liked them both), and Koston’s last one was a dud.  Janoski’s success likely cancelled out all these other factors

[close]

I get it but its sort of a tradition in skateboarding. And i agree if you're a struggling brand but it just sound cheap when you're a big corporation taking over skateboarding biggest names.

Nike kinda make up for it by giving ams colorway and letting their riders have the first colorways of new models, but I totally agree that it’d be awesome to see these companies give some of their riders actual shoes. 

It kind of seems pro models have died out across the industry and colorways have become the norm.  If I remember right, Evan fuckin Hernandez had a Pro Model during the 00s when tons of riders were getting vans pro shoes while Dan Lutheran should be getting a shoe by now but is just getting his stylings.  The last big pro shoe to come out lately that I can recall is Reynolds, but Reynolds shoes just different versions of the original. 

[poowizard]

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I used to care for the shoe industry. I only bought core brands. My feet hurt for years. Now I don't care and started wearing Nike. My feet are happier and they last longer. Stupid me.

[close]

I don't understand where this claim of a quality gap comes from, because I've skated various brands and to me that claim seems straight up false. Vans and Emerica are my go-to, but I've bit the bullet and had a few pairs of Adidas and even some Nikes given to me by friends and to me that difference is just complete hyperbole. Honestly, the Nikes hurt my feet more than anything. The Adidas were fine enough, but this idea that zero skateboard shoe companies make a quality product is complete bullshit.

Well, we all have different feet I suppose, and we probably skate differently. My comfort level has improved. My shoes last longer. I would buy them again. I have given the "core" industry thousands and thousands of dollars through my skateshop, but no more. *** just another pawn here

[bad joke]

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I used to care for the shoe industry. I only bought core brands. My feet hurt for years. Now I don't care and started wearing Nike. My feet are happier and they last longer. Stupid me.

[close]

I don't understand where this claim of a quality gap comes from, because I've skated various brands and to me that claim seems straight up false. Vans and Emerica are my go-to, but I've bit the bullet and had a few pairs of Adidas and even some Nikes given to me by friends and to me that difference is just complete hyperbole. Honestly, the Nikes hurt my feet more than anything. The Adidas were fine enough, but this idea that zero skateboard shoe companies make a quality product is complete bullshit.

[close]

Well, we all have different feet I suppose, and we probably skate differently. My comfort level has improved. My shoes last longer. I would buy them again. I have given the "core" industry thousands and thousands of dollars through my skateshop, but no more. *** just another coprophilic pawn here

[pizzafliptofakie]

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I used to care for the shoe industry. I only bought core brands. My feet hurt for years. Now I don't care and started wearing Nike. My feet are happier and they last longer. Stupid me.

[close]

I don't understand where this claim of a quality gap comes from, because I've skated various brands and to me that claim seems straight up false. Vans and Emerica are my go-to, but I've bit the bullet and had a few pairs of Adidas and even some Nikes given to me by friends and to me that difference is just complete hyperbole. Honestly, the Nikes hurt my feet more than anything. The Adidas were fine enough, but this idea that zero skateboard shoe companies make a quality product is complete bullshit.

[close]

Well, we all have different feet I suppose, and we probably skate differently. My comfort level has improved. My shoes last longer. I would buy them again. I have given the "core" industry thousands and thousands of dollars through my skateshop, but no more. *** just another pawn here

I mean, I get having preferences and you can like what you like, but this weird justification that there's such a huge difference in quality is just beyond me. Even a lame company like Osiris probably has a couple decent shoes to skate outside of their mall models. A lot of the people I have this conversation with in person say the same thing, yet they haven't bought a "core" brand in years.

[colt cannon lunchbox]

I love reading all of this and it makes me think about New Balance Numeric. Are they doing the exact same thing Nike did in the early to mid 2000s? Sponsoring Levi Brown, Marius, and PJ?  Will they plan to expand to the same amount where every second kid who is half decent at skating is Nike flow?

I'm only asking because I for one wouldn't buy Nike, Adidas or Converse, but am a fan of new balance sneakers (one of the few companies still making shoes ethically in the USA) and I've been told that they aren't on the stock market (don't quote me).

For now I'll just keep buying lakai. The staple is a really underrated shoe.

[ImportantGuy]

I love reading all of this and it makes me think about New Balance Numeric. Are they doing the exact same thing Nike did in the early to mid 2000s? Sponsoring Levi Brown, Marius, and PJ?  Will they plan to expand to the same amount where every second kid who is half decent at skating is Nike flow?

I'm only asking because I for one wouldn't buy Nike, Adidas or Converse, but am a fan of new balance sneakers (one of the few companies still making shoes ethically in the USA) and I've been told that they aren't on the stock market (don't quote me).

For now I'll just keep buying lakai. The staple is a really underrated shoe.

Dude the black Staple with gum sole was so sick! I think Lakai is the only ''core'' company to have made shoes as nice looking as the bigger players. Definitely the brand I've worn the most through the years.

[j....soy.....]

Did Rick and Mke buy back Lakai? 

The moment the shoe wall was more important than the board wall....skating was in trouble....

[REGS]

Did Rick and Mke buy back Lakai? 

Does anyone know the full story here? There's very little info available from what I can tell.

Lakai is under HUF, which is under Altamont Capital...

Did Rick, Mike & co ever sell 100% of the company? I was under the impression that Altamont invested in Crail, then dropped Girl & Chocolate but kept Lakai and moved it under HUF (same CEO, offices?, etc). I am not a business person so I'll admit this does confuse me, I'd love to know if someone had the info. 

[Chuck Gender]

...but am a fan of new balance sneakers (one of the few companies still making shoes ethically in the USA) and I've been told that they aren't on the stock market

I am not sure that the Numeric skate line of their shoe segment is actually produced in the States.




 

[patrick c.]

I am not sure that the Numeric skate line of their shoe segment is actually produced in the States. 

They aren't.

[colt cannon lunchbox]

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I am not sure that the Numeric skate line of their shoe segment is actually produced in the States. 

[close]

They aren't.

I realise that, as a made in USA skate shoe would cost about $300 AUD (this is what I pay for the sneakers) and not many skaters would pay this as the shoes will only last a few weeks. I believe though their effort to at least keep some of the production in the US makes them a more ethical company than the other non skater-owned options on the market.

[poowizard]

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I used to care for the shoe industry. I only bought core brands. My feet hurt for years. Now I don't care and started wearing Nike. My feet are happier and they last longer. Stupid me.

[close]

I don't understand where this claim of a quality gap comes from, because I've skated various brands and to me that claim seems straight up false. Vans and Emerica are my go-to, but I've bit the bullet and had a few pairs of Adidas and even some Nikes given to me by friends and to me that difference is just complete hyperbole. Honestly, the Nikes hurt my feet more than anything. The Adidas were fine enough, but this idea that zero skateboard shoe companies make a quality product is complete bullshit.

[close]

Well, we all have different feet I suppose, and we probably skate differently. My comfort level has improved. My shoes last longer. I would buy them again. I have given the "core" industry thousands and thousands of dollars through my skateshop, but no more. *** just another pawn here

[close]

I mean, I get having preferences and you can like what you like, but this weird justification that there's such a huge difference in quality is just beyond me. Even a lame company like Osiris probably has a couple decent shoes to skate outside of their mall models. A lot of the people I have this conversation with in person say the same thing, yet they haven't bought a "core" brand in years.

Well, what I'm saying is that I have skated countless pairs of Lakais, Fallens, Ipath, Supra and Vox toward their ends, and all in all, one pair of leather Bruins got me convinced. Now I'm trying some Numerics.

Maybe you should step beyond trying a used pair from a homie. Buy one that you think looks good to skate in and you may see. Maybe you'll see not.

[pizzafliptofakie]

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I used to care for the shoe industry. I only bought core brands. My feet hurt for years. Now I don't care and started wearing Nike. My feet are happier and they last longer. Stupid me.

[close]

I don't understand where this claim of a quality gap comes from, because I've skated various brands and to me that claim seems straight up false. Vans and Emerica are my go-to, but I've bit the bullet and had a few pairs of Adidas and even some Nikes given to me by friends and to me that difference is just complete hyperbole. Honestly, the Nikes hurt my feet more than anything. The Adidas were fine enough, but this idea that zero skateboard shoe companies make a quality product is complete bullshit.

[close]

Well, we all have different feet I suppose, and we probably skate differently. My comfort level has improved. My shoes last longer. I would buy them again. I have given the "core" industry thousands and thousands of dollars through my skateshop, but no more. *** just another pawn here

[close]

I mean, I get having preferences and you can like what you like, but this weird justification that there's such a huge difference in quality is just beyond me. Even a lame company like Osiris probably has a couple decent shoes to skate outside of their mall models. A lot of the people I have this conversation with in person say the same thing, yet they haven't bought a "core" brand in years.

[close]

Well, what I'm saying is that I have skated countless pairs of Lakais, Fallens, Ipath, Supra and Vox toward their ends, and all in all, one pair of leather Bruins got me convinced. Now I'm trying some Numerics.

Maybe you should step beyond trying a used pair from a homie. Buy one that you think looks good to skate in and you may see. Maybe you'll see not.

I've had like 2-3 pair of Adidas. They were good shoes and I would skate them again, but it certainly wasn't night and day.

[poowizard]

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I used to care for the shoe industry. I only bought core brands. My feet hurt for years. Now I don't care and started wearing Nike. My feet are happier and they last longer. Stupid me.

[close]

I don't understand where this claim of a quality gap comes from, because I've skated various brands and to me that claim seems straight up false. Vans and Emerica are my go-to, but I've bit the bullet and had a few pairs of Adidas and even some Nikes given to me by friends and to me that difference is just complete hyperbole. Honestly, the Nikes hurt my feet more than anything. The Adidas were fine enough, but this idea that zero skateboard shoe companies make a quality product is complete bullshit.

[close]

Well, we all have different feet I suppose, and we probably skate differently. My comfort level has improved. My shoes last longer. I would buy them again. I have given the "core" industry thousands and thousands of dollars through my skateshop, but no more. *** just another pawn here

[close]

I mean, I get having preferences and you can like what you like, but this weird justification that there's such a huge difference in quality is just beyond me. Even a lame company like Osiris probably has a couple decent shoes to skate outside of their mall models. A lot of the people I have this conversation with in person say the same thing, yet they haven't bought a "core" brand in years.

[close]

Well, what I'm saying is that I have skated countless pairs of Lakais, Fallens, Ipath, Supra and Vox toward their ends, and all in all, one pair of leather Bruins got me convinced. Now I'm trying some Numerics.

Maybe you should step beyond trying a used pair from a homie. Buy one that you think looks good to skate in and you may see. Maybe you'll see not.

[close]

I've had like 2-3 pair of Adidas. They were good shoes and I would skate them again, but it certainly wasn't night and day.

Word. I haven't tried out adidas yet. Something has always held me back. You try nike, I'll try adidas, and we can revisit this topic! Cheers.

[Chavo]

Edgy: