Reynolds in Adidas, Feelings?

[ttching!]

The skate industry is starting to remind me of this Hieronymus Bosch painting from ca 1500

[fulltechnicalskizzy]

Ok Ted

[new_york_shitty]

It's pretty fascinating that it 'took this long' for skate shoe companies to fold.
In the 90s I remember buying almost any new brand I was remotely excited about, mostly to try new things the same way I used to pick different boards on the wall. This may be anecdotal, but I feel like back then if you saw a kid with skate shoes shoes you were just hyped to see ollie marks and less judgmental about the brand. But, then I watch videos about the clicks at Embarcardero or whatever and realize it was probably just the Southern California group of friends I had.

duffs, etnies, airwalk, 88s, circa, emerica, evol, axion, kastel, globe, lakai etc.

In retrospect, they were mostly cheaply made, either uncomfortable or so overblown with padding that it made board feel impossible. Nostalgia aside, they were really horrible shoes.

Although it's a sad state that giant corporations have planted their flag, it's undeniable that they are a FAR superior product.

[Paul Cicero]

It's pretty fascinating that it 'took this long' for skate shoe companies to fold.
In the 90s I remember buying almost any new brand I was remotely excited about, mostly to try new things the same way I used to pick different boards on the wall. This may be anecdotal, but I feel like back then if you saw a kid with skate shoes shoes you were just hyped to see ollie marks and less judgmental about the brand. But, then I watch videos about the clicks at Embarcardero or whatever and realize it was probably just the Southern California group of friends I had.

duffs, etnies, airwalk, 88s, circa, emerica, evol, axion, kastel, globe, lakai etc.

In retrospect, they were mostly cheaply made, either uncomfortable or so overblown with padding that it made board feel impossible. Nostalgia aside, they were really horrible shoes.

Although it's a sad state that giant corporations have planted their flag, it's undeniable that they are a FAR superior product.

They really are not, you just repeat that bullshit to justify being a sheep wearing Blazers or Chuck Taylors.

If Reynolds does leave Emerica and Sole Tech folds we are honestly staring down the barrel of having 3 or 4 brands to choose from for skate shoes. Does that no piss anyone else off?

Does it not piss you off that you won’t be able to support brands that put money back into the culture? (Stay Flared tour, wild in the streets) Instead all our money is going to go into the pockets of a bunch of business men who couldn’t give a fuck about skateboarding at the end of the day and have successfully infiltrated a counter culture that was doing just fine before them.

I've said this before, but it honestly blows my mind that people here love skating enough to discuss every tiny detail about it with strangers on the internet, but not enough to give their dollar to companies that have more interest in skateboarding than just taking customers money.

[bawtawd5]

Emerica just ain't cool no more. Consumers ain't got no love or philosophical thoughts when its time to spend money.

[pizzafliptofakie]

Although it's a sad state that giant corporations have planted their flag, it's undeniable that they are a FAR superior product.

This gets posted in pretty much every single thread about this topic and it's such hot garbage.


As I mentioned earlier, Emerica is my favorite shoe brand, but I've tried other brands including the big corporate ones. Yeah, most of them were fine. Some I'd even call great. But for the life of me I can't figure out where this otherworldly gap in quality lies that people keep bringing up. Yes, I understand that preferences differ and in turn performance will differ, but every time people bring this up as some kind of universal truth I feel like I'm just talking to a wall. And this isn't exclusive to the Internet, because 99% of the people who tell me this in person EXCLUSIVELY skate Nike/Adidas. The other 1%, frankly, don't skate enough to even wear through their shoes. Where is this "undeniable fact" coming from?


Honestly, if people just straight up admitted they go for those shoes because they're "cool" I would concede, but it really bums me out that people shrug off these companies going under because they make an inferior product because I just don't feel like that's true. If I were asked to rank the shoes I've skated in the past few years in a top 5 or something, I dunno how many pairs of Adidas would make the list. Although I've skated several I just can't honestly say they were THAT much better than a lot of other shoes I had. And yes, I know that's subjective, but I refuse to believe that I am the only one with this experience and every single skateboarder is just seeing something that I'm not.

[Francis Xavier]

Expand Quote

It's pretty fascinating that it 'took this long' for skate shoe companies to fold.
In the 90s I remember buying almost any new brand I was remotely excited about, mostly to try new things the same way I used to pick different boards on the wall. This may be anecdotal, but I feel like back then if you saw a kid with skate shoes shoes you were just hyped to see ollie marks and less judgmental about the brand. But, then I watch videos about the clicks at Embarcardero or whatever and realize it was probably just the Southern California group of friends I had.

duffs, etnies, airwalk, 88s, circa, emerica, evol, axion, kastel, globe, lakai etc.

In retrospect, they were mostly cheaply made, either uncomfortable or so overblown with padding that it made board feel impossible. Nostalgia aside, they were really horrible shoes.

Although it's a sad state that giant corporations have planted their flag, it's undeniable that they are a FAR superior product.

[close]

They really are not, you just repeat that bullshit to justify being a sheep wearing Blazers or Chuck Taylors.

If Reynolds does leave Emerica and Sole Tech folds we are honestly staring down the barrel of having 3 or 4 brands to choose from for skate shoes. Does that no piss anyone else off?

Does it not piss you off that you won’t be able to support brands that put money back into the culture? (Stay Flared tour, wild in the streets) Instead all our money is going to go into the pockets of a bunch of business men who couldn’t give a fuck about skateboarding at the end of the day and have successfully infiltrated a counter culture that was doing just fine before them.

I've said this before, but it honestly blows my mind that people here love skating enough to discuss every tiny detail about it with strangers on the internet, but not enough to give their dollar to companies that have more interest in skateboarding than just taking customers money.

I sort of miss the shoe racks looking like a board wall. Quality in a shoe only becomes an issue when you start buying your own gear. In the end it's all on how you skate and how much you skate that determines a shoe's lifespan,not what logo is on the side.

[Level 80 Undead Warlock]

Remember when there were no skate shoe companies? Then a couple of wack ass freestylers guilted everyone in to buying their shitty shoes.  Skate what you like, but don't think for a second Soletech gives a shit about anything but the money.

[Francis Xavier]

Remember when there were no skate shoe companies? Then a couple of wack ass freestylers guilted everyone in to buying their shitty shoes.  Skate what you like, but don't think for a second Soletech ANY SHOE COMPANY gives a shit about anything but the money.

[chipped tail]

what consumer knows the real intentions or contentions of big corporations. what do you define as putting money back into skateboarding because it seems like there are many ways that could be perceived. counter culture? do you think you are unique and edgy and part of a counter culture because you skate? it was on Nikelodeon in the 90s and been mainstream ever since. doing fine? in what sense was the culture doing fine, and should everyone have the same level of contentment at all times. did skaters invent shoes or did they adapt an already existing product to fit their needs? terrrible example but; suppose skaters invent skate pants. should we then expect every skater to only support skate pants brands, and not expect dickies and levis to get in the skate pant game (i know that already happened). shoes are a cross over product, they are not specific to skateboarding, everyone on the planet wears them with or without skateboarding.

nike cares about profits, nike gets profits from skateboarding, so nike cares about skateboarding.

the tread wore bald on my emericas in less than a month. my blazers, that are super cool by the way, lasted me over 3 months and counting. thats the quality gap.

im all over the place here and i need time to reflect

[Ernest Borgnine]

Remember when there were no skate shoe companies? Then a couple of wack ass freestylers guilted everyone in to buying their shitty shoes.  Skate what you like, but don't think for a second Soletech gives a shit about anything but the money.

I started skateboarding in 88, so I'm too young to recall a time before Vans and Airwalk. 

[DaSk8D00D]

Expand Quote

Remember when there were no skate shoe companies? Then a couple of wack ass freestylers guilted everyone in to buying their shitty shoes.  Skate what you like, but don't think for a second Soletech gives a shit about anything but the money.

[close]

I started skateboarding in 88, so I'm too young to recall a time before Vans and Airwalk. 

Vans isnt a specialized skate company though, they're basically Nike for people who dont like sports

[chipped tail]

vans started by makes boat shoes and deck shoes.

[Paul Cicero]

Remember when there were no skate shoe companies? Then a couple of wack ass freestylers guilted everyone in to buying their shitty shoes.  Skate what you like, but don't think for a second Soletech gives a shit about anything but the money.

If that was truly the case why would they do a tour with Lakai? They did that to make money yes, but also to get kids to support skate companies in general.

Do you think Nike and Adidas would team up to promote each other? Hell no, why? Beacause their one and only priority is making profit from skateboarding.

[heckler]

It's funny, because everyone who claims that "skater"-owned shoes are great seems to be vehemently against buying from "corporate" shoe brands, but they also know inherently know that their Emericas skate better than a pair of Blazers or a Busenitz? Can someone enlighten me on how you can comment on a brand's product without using it first?

[Paul Cicero]

It's funny, because everyone who claims that "skater"-owned shoes are great seems to be vehemently against buying from "corporate" shoe brands, but they also know inherently know that their Emericas skate better than a pair of Blazers or a Busenitz? Can someone enlighten me on how you can comment on a brand's product without using it first?

In my case, heckler I have been given a pair of Busenitz and a pair of Janoskis. The Busenitz were like wearing high heels with wax rubbed into the sole, by far the most slippery shoes i've ever worn. The Janoskis skated exactly the same as any shoe I've ever purchased from Lakai or Emerica. Not better, not worse.

Personaly, I've never said that Emericas "skate better" I've only ever said that the argument that Adidas, Nike etc are of a higher quality is bullshit.

[new_york_shitty]

Expand Quote

Although it's a sad state that giant corporations have planted their flag, it's undeniable that they are a FAR superior product.

[close]

This gets posted in pretty much every single thread about this topic and it's such hot garbage.


As I mentioned earlier, Emerica is my favorite shoe brand, but I've tried other brands including the big corporate ones. Yeah, most of them were fine. Some I'd even call great. But for the life of me I can't figure out where this otherworldly gap in quality lies that people keep bringing up. Yes, I understand that preferences differ and in turn performance will differ, but every time people bring this up as some kind of universal truth I feel like I'm just talking to a wall. And this isn't exclusive to the Internet, because 99% of the people who tell me this in person EXCLUSIVELY skate Nike/Adidas. The other 1%, frankly, don't skate enough to even wear through their shoes. Where is this "undeniable fact" coming from?


Honestly, if people just straight up admitted they go for those shoes because they're "cool" I would concede, but it really bums me out that people shrug off these companies going under because they make an inferior product because I just don't feel like that's true. If I were asked to rank the shoes I've skated in the past few years in a top 5 or something, I dunno how many pairs of Adidas would make the list. Although I've skated several I just can't honestly say they were THAT much better than a lot of other shoes I had. And yes, I know that's subjective, but I refuse to believe that I am the only one with this experience and every single skateboarder is just seeing something that I'm not.

I wasn't making a 'cool' argument, so not sure how or why you went off the rails there. 

They have billions to invest in their company's research and development and outside of the occasional gimmick, they are far more comfortable and durable. are there one-off examples of this not being the case, sure.

If you hate nike, cool, whatever, but they are putting tons of money back into skateboarding because it is profitable for them to do so. that intention alone may bug you, but they are doing it nonetheless because it has a traceable return of investment.

 whatever the objective, in NYC alone for example, they have helped renovate LES, they built two temporary skate parks here in NYC for go skate day events, they built a temporary skate park for Brian Anderson at Tompkins for his Project BA shoe release, last winter they built a temporary indoor skate park for their riders called The Garage in Williamsburg, etc etc.


also they are investing in the industries top riders and by default that is putting money back into the scene. many skaters now are compensated more so than previous generations which is by itself something to think about.

[planman]

*mentions Nike/Adidas/Cons/NB in a thread once*
SLAP:

[Level 80 Undead Warlock]

Expand Quote

Remember when there were no skate shoe companies? Then a couple of wack ass freestylers guilted everyone in to buying their shitty shoes.  Skate what you like, but don't think for a second Soletech gives a shit about anything but the money.

[close]

If that was truly the case why would they do a tour with Lakai? They did that to make money yes, but also to get kids to support skate companies in general.

Do you think Nike and Adidas would team up to promote each other? Hell no, why? Beacause their one and only priority is making profit from skateboarding.

To make more money. This isn't hard. It isn't about saving the culture, or else why would etnies be all over the mall and have a dirtbike team.  Why would es drop their ENTIRE TEAM? They're selling you an idea, guilting you in to being loyal.

[Paul Cicero]

Expand Quote

Expand Quote

Remember when there were no skate shoe companies? Then a couple of wack ass freestylers guilted everyone in to buying their shitty shoes.  Skate what you like, but don't think for a second Soletech gives a shit about anything but the money.

[close]

If that was truly the case why would they do a tour with Lakai? They did that to make money yes, but also to get kids to support skate companies in general.

Do you think Nike and Adidas would team up to promote each other? Hell no, why? Beacause their one and only priority is making profit from skateboarding.

[close]

To make more money. This isn't hard. It isn't about saving the culture, or else why would etnies be all over the mall and have a dirtbike team.  Why would es drop their ENTIRE TEAM? They're selling you an idea, guilting you in to being loyal.

I know this isn't hard. Again, if the were only interested in the dollar, why would they help each other?

[pizzafliptofakie]

It's funny, because everyone who claims that "skater"-owned shoes are great seems to be vehemently against buying from "corporate" shoe brands, but they also know inherently know that their Emericas skate better than a pair of Blazers or a Busenitz? Can someone enlighten me on how you can comment on a brand's product without using it first?

This is exactly what I asked earlier, but reversed. I have skated Nikes and Adidas, and I can reasonably compare them to other smaller companies for better AND worse. I know my experience isn't universal, but you guys are acting as if we're comparing NASA rockets to baking soda and vinegar volcanoes.

Expand Quote

Expand Quote

Although it's a sad state that giant corporations have planted their flag, it's undeniable that they are a FAR superior product.

[close]

This gets posted in pretty much every single thread about this topic and it's such hot garbage.


As I mentioned earlier, Emerica is my favorite shoe brand, but I've tried other brands including the big corporate ones. Yeah, most of them were fine. Some I'd even call great. But for the life of me I can't figure out where this otherworldly gap in quality lies that people keep bringing up. Yes, I understand that preferences differ and in turn performance will differ, but every time people bring this up as some kind of universal truth I feel like I'm just talking to a wall. And this isn't exclusive to the Internet, because 99% of the people who tell me this in person EXCLUSIVELY skate Nike/Adidas. The other 1%, frankly, don't skate enough to even wear through their shoes. Where is this "undeniable fact" coming from?


Honestly, if people just straight up admitted they go for those shoes because they're "cool" I would concede, but it really bums me out that people shrug off these companies going under because they make an inferior product because I just don't feel like that's true. If I were asked to rank the shoes I've skated in the past few years in a top 5 or something, I dunno how many pairs of Adidas would make the list. Although I've skated several I just can't honestly say they were THAT much better than a lot of other shoes I had. And yes, I know that's subjective, but I refuse to believe that I am the only one with this experience and every single skateboarder is just seeing something that I'm not.

[close]

I wasn't making a 'cool' argument, so not sure how or why you went off the rails there. 

They have billions to invest in their company's research and development and outside of the occasional gimmick, they are far more comfortable and durable. are there one-off examples of this not being the case, sure.

If you hate nike, cool, whatever, but they are putting tons of money back into skateboarding because it is profitable for them to do so. that intention alone may bug you, but they are doing it nonetheless because it has a traceable return of investment.

 whatever the objective, in NYC alone for example, they have helped renovate LES, they built two temporary skate parks here in NYC for go skate day events, they built a temporary skate park for Brian Anderson at Tompkins for his Project BA shoe release, last winter they built a temporary indoor skate park for their riders called The Garage in Williamsburg, etc etc.


also they are investing in the industries top riders and by default that is putting money back into the scene. many skaters now are compensated more so than previous generations which is by itself something to think about.

My tangent was more of a general take on your argument that gets pressed every single time this thread happens. I know you weren't making a "cool" argument, but I am.




I'm not denying that there are benefits to bigger brands. I'm not even denying that these brands make a solid product. I just get frustrated when I see the notion that supporting smaller companies makes you a sucker and that there's this astronomical difference in quality that you're crazy if you don't see. I know my take isn't universal, but I refuse to believe that I'm alone in saying that I've had equally great AND shitty shoes from corporate brands and smaller brands alike.

[Level 80 Undead Warlock]

Expand Quote

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Remember when there were no skate shoe companies? Then a couple of wack ass freestylers guilted everyone in to buying their shitty shoes.  Skate what you like, but don't think for a second Soletech gives a shit about anything but the money.

[close]

If that was truly the case why would they do a tour with Lakai? They did that to make money yes, but also to get kids to support skate companies in general.

Do you think Nike and Adidas would team up to promote each other? Hell no, why? Beacause their one and only priority is making profit from skateboarding.

[close]

To make more money. This isn't hard. It isn't about saving the culture, or else why would etnies be all over the mall and have a dirtbike team.  Why would es drop their ENTIRE TEAM? They're selling you an idea, guilting you in to being loyal.

[close]

I know this isn't hard. Again, if the were only interested in the dollar, why would they help each other?

Their survival is dependent on each other, probably. Split the gas cost? Hell, idk. They care about skateboarding, but so does kelly bird, rattray, cairo, and all the other dudes that work at Nike and Adidas.

[pizzafliptofakie]

Expand Quote

Expand Quote

Remember when there were no skate shoe companies? Then a couple of wack ass freestylers guilted everyone in to buying their shitty shoes.  Skate what you like, but don't think for a second Soletech gives a shit about anything but the money.

[close]

If that was truly the case why would they do a tour with Lakai? They did that to make money yes, but also to get kids to support skate companies in general.

Do you think Nike and Adidas would team up to promote each other? Hell no, why? Beacause their one and only priority is making profit from skateboarding.

[close]

To make more money. This isn't hard. It isn't about saving the culture, or else why would etnies be all over the mall and have a dirtbike team.  Why would es drop their ENTIRE TEAM? They're selling you an idea, guilting you in to being loyal.

It's weird to me how a company trying to adapt or explore other avenues to survive in a tough market is so heavily frowned upon, but then a larger company sucking EVERY AVENUE dry is brushed off. Why does Nike get a pass for being sold in mall/chain stores but every other company doing it is wack? I can't find Etnies at Wal-Mart, but I bet I could find some Swooshes around.

[Budgie Lasek]

The "superior quality" argument is definitely hugely exaggerated, and mostly a lot of hot air. Particularly amusing is when people use Janoskis as their example of this massive quality advantage - compared to what? A fucking Vox Hoffart shoe? Lol.

And dudes, arguing about which company has the more heartless capitalist agenda is stupid - business is business. But that being said, it's probably a bit naive to assume companies like Nike etc really care as much about skateboarding culture as brands like Lakai and Soletech which were born from skateboarding itself.

I'd love to see an alternate universe experiment in which all corpo shoe brands only offered comparable salaries and packages to prospective riders, and then see who switches.

[Level 80 Undead Warlock]

Expand Quote

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Remember when there were no skate shoe companies? Then a couple of wack ass freestylers guilted everyone in to buying their shitty shoes.  Skate what you like, but don't think for a second Soletech gives a shit about anything but the money.

[close]

If that was truly the case why would they do a tour with Lakai? They did that to make money yes, but also to get kids to support skate companies in general.

Do you think Nike and Adidas would team up to promote each other? Hell no, why? Beacause their one and only priority is making profit from skateboarding.

[close]

To make more money. This isn't hard. It isn't about saving the culture, or else why would etnies be all over the mall and have a dirtbike team.  Why would es drop their ENTIRE TEAM? They're selling you an idea, guilting you in to being loyal.

[close]

It's weird to me how a company trying to adapt or explore other avenues to survive in a tough market is so heavily frowned upon, but then a larger company sucking EVERY AVENUE dry is brushed off. Why does Nike get a pass for being sold in mall/chain stores but every other company doing it is wack? I can't find Etnies at Wal-Mart, but I bet I could find some Swooshes around.

Because of the narrative. Nike isn't guilting me in to a purchasing because I owe it to skateboarding. 

[fangen]

The quality argument is exactly this.....

"These $20 vulc deklines I got off the sale shelf at a skateshop are not nearly as good as the $90 Janoski's/prods I picked up at zoomies..."

Type of dudes that buy canvas Vans then have the nerve to complain that they wore quick and they were too grippy, like that isn't the exact reason they've been sought after since vag was hairy.

[Paul Cicero]

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Remember when there were no skate shoe companies? Then a couple of wack ass freestylers guilted everyone in to buying their shitty shoes.  Skate what you like, but don't think for a second Soletech gives a shit about anything but the money.

[close]

If that was truly the case why would they do a tour with Lakai? They did that to make money yes, but also to get kids to support skate companies in general.

Do you think Nike and Adidas would team up to promote each other? Hell no, why? Beacause their one and only priority is making profit from skateboarding.

[close]

To make more money. This isn't hard. It isn't about saving the culture, or else why would etnies be all over the mall and have a dirtbike team.  Why would es drop their ENTIRE TEAM? They're selling you an idea, guilting you in to being loyal.

[close]

It's weird to me how a company trying to adapt or explore other avenues to survive in a tough market is so heavily frowned upon, but then a larger company sucking EVERY AVENUE dry is brushed off. Why does Nike get a pass for being sold in mall/chain stores but every other company doing it is wack? I can't find Etnies at Wal-Mart, but I bet I could find some Swooshes around.

[close]

Because of the narrative. Nike isn't guilting me in to a purchasing because I owe it to skateboarding.

You should want to support these brands and the diversity they offer. Can you honestly sit there and say you are ok with only have 2 or 3 shoe brands to choose from? That is the reality that’s fast approaching.

[fulltechnicalskizzy]

Can you honestly sit there and say you are ok with only have 2 or 3 shoe brands to choose from?

[pizzafliptofakie]

Expand Quote

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Expand Quote

Expand Quote

Remember when there were no skate shoe companies? Then a couple of wack ass freestylers guilted everyone in to buying their shitty shoes.  Skate what you like, but don't think for a second Soletech gives a shit about anything but the money.

[close]

If that was truly the case why would they do a tour with Lakai? They did that to make money yes, but also to get kids to support skate companies in general.

Do you think Nike and Adidas would team up to promote each other? Hell no, why? Beacause their one and only priority is making profit from skateboarding.

[close]

To make more money. This isn't hard. It isn't about saving the culture, or else why would etnies be all over the mall and have a dirtbike team.  Why would es drop their ENTIRE TEAM? They're selling you an idea, guilting you in to being loyal.

[close]

It's weird to me how a company trying to adapt or explore other avenues to survive in a tough market is so heavily frowned upon, but then a larger company sucking EVERY AVENUE dry is brushed off. Why does Nike get a pass for being sold in mall/chain stores but every other company doing it is wack? I can't find Etnies at Wal-Mart, but I bet I could find some Swooshes around.

[close]

Because of the narrative. Nike isn't guilting me in to a purchasing because I owe it to skateboarding.

They don't need to guilt you because they are doing more than fine, which makes it extra weird that they cater to the chain stores, right? I'm speaking of course based on the logic that catering to these places is a bad thing, because it apparently is for everybody except the one company that has no real need to do that. I get what you're saying, but don't you think it's a little weird to get mad at companies for adapting to a changing market but ignore the companies that are igniting these changes in the first place?

[GAY]

Expand Quote

Remember when there were no skate shoe companies? Then a couple of wack ass freestylers guilted everyone in to buying their shitty shoes.  Skate what you like, but don't think for a second Soletech gives a shit about anything but the money.

[close]

I started skateboarding in 88, so I'm too young to recall a time before Vans and Airwalk.

You really DO radiate like it was 88.