Author Topic: Photo timing for flip tricks in the 90s/00s compared to today  (Read 3176 times)

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disgruntledMTAEmployee

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Photo timing for flip tricks in the 90s/00s compared to today
« on: August 01, 2023, 08:33:57 PM »
Alright so this has been bugging me for a while

Photos of say a kickflip in the 90s/00s. I'd say the majority of them from memory have the board more or less sideways (primo-ish, griptape showing if the photographer can see the skaters face). not fully flipped or caught yet. feet not touching the board. Similarly, a 3 flip photo from the same era would say, on a front-on photo (photographer directly in the path of the skater's direction) would show the griptape. Not fully caught yet, still has roughly 90 degrees of shuv rotation to go, feet not touching the board.

Photo of a kickflip today: fully caught, back foot definitely on the board, front foot sometimes not, sometimes the photo looks like an ollie or ollie north til you read the caption. for a 3 flip, front foot definitely on the board, board almost or already fully rotated, and sometimes you think it's a pop shuv.

So did the skaters focus more on catching their tricks higher, flipping faster, or did the photogs start shooting later? or a little bit of all three or more?

Is my memory right or am i fuckin fried. can old heads in here confirm? am i making any sense? if not what's the best kind of cheese to put on a chik fila sandwich? if i am, let's give this phenomenon a name.

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Re: Photo timing for flip tricks in the 90s/00s compared to today
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2023, 05:10:04 AM »
I've had that conversation with other people before so no, you're not tripping. Until the mid 90's the status quo on flip trick photos was they had to show the flip and so more often than not timing of the photo was pre-catch if not mid-flip. Then after a while people realized maybe there only was this much to the flipping of the board and so it had to be all about the pose, as more skaters in general started popping and catching their tricks the game became more about the shapes you could get with them, no longer so much about technically landing stuff which was closer to BPSW mentality, itself heavily rooted in freestyle heritage. And the more and better 'style' photos would come out, the less acceptable it became for most to take half flip photos seriously in comparison, because those either looked like a completely different activity now or something a random pedestrian with no to surface level grasp on skateboarding would have shot.

Personally I have love for both approaches and I actually don't think mid flip photos means one is excluding style (at all), just like a lot of 'caught' photos exist that really are generic and procedural as fuck with the skater deliberately trying to look like every other skater out there already doing the same thing. So I think it doesn't matter the timings and trends, a good photo is a good photo and style is style, you never doubt it when you do see it. But it's a cool discussion topic, just one it would be easy to write literal essays about, studying the development over time is interesting and tied to more layers of justification than might first meet the eye if one's going to deconstruct it.

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Re: Photo timing for flip tricks in the 90s/00s compared to today
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2023, 05:59:49 AM »
I like hem with board in a good primo position

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Re: Photo timing for flip tricks in the 90s/00s compared to today
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2023, 06:42:14 AM »
Perhaps newer photographers and veterans chose to shift their focus on the catch as a way to mix it up from the "middle" of the trick. Perhaps to make it look like they landed the trick or to experiment with shapes like previously mentioned.

I believe there's room for both. I enjoy both, but prefer the "middle" of a trick where you can 50/50 tell what the trick is. The flip on kickflip or treflip look better when it's shot in the flipping part compared to the catching part. There's enough action to catch your attention, but not too much to not know what's going on.  Spin/flip tricks that are "harder", i.e. more flips/spins need to be captured at their apex or just before rather than on the catch after. The catch after tells less of a story to me, as it could be any trick. Dissenters may argue that the ambiguity of catch photos adds mystery, but I disagree. It's generic because it could be any trick, rather than show you an actual glimpse of what the trick might be.

Some tre flips or hard flips can look like different tricks "mid flip" in a photo that invites intrigue. Whereas, a catch photo for those is bland and predictable.  "Skater landed date trick" rather than "Skater landed hardflip" because the latter gives your mind crumbs to piece the story together.
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Re: Photo timing for flip tricks in the 90s/00s compared to today
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2023, 07:11:48 AM »
I think there is something intrinsically wild about a flip trick caught so early the feet already are reaching for the board (ideally) before the apex and sometimes that's before the board is completely done flipping, then resulting in the 'primo' poses. But it's one of those moments that are cool to capture especially because they were never planned nor rehearsed and so they sublime the subject's honest talent, but you tend to lose all of that as soon as the process is rehearsed and automated as a conscious part of the performance. What's most interesting is when an outsider can sense the honesty in a photo and whether it's inherently cool or a masquerade as soon as they catch a simple glimpse of it. For instance you could show a Jake Rupp or Huf or Kenny Reed or Puleo, Quim, Paulo, Donger, Gonz, Matt Field photo to literally anyone and they would just get it with no room left for doubt regarding what they're seeing and at the same time, a lot to imagine. I feel like those are the photos people can relate to and most everything else is a commercial replica.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2023, 07:35:13 AM by silhouette »

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Re: Photo timing for flip tricks in the 90s/00s compared to today
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2023, 09:19:48 AM »
As someone who got their photographic start shooting skating, I’d love to chime in on this one. I’ve definitely noticed the trend OP is describing, but if I could ramble a little…

I feel like the JOB of a skateboard photo is to tell the story of the trick. I should, assuming I have a basic understanding of skating, be able to look at a skate photo and interpret what’s happening. Think basic fisheye from the bottom of the set kind of photo: you’ve got the run up in one corner, the landing typically in the opposite corner, and the action in the middle. There’s a clear story there. In that functional sense, the timing of the flip trick only matters if it makes it harder to tell what’s happening (like when your local journalist or aspiring art student snaps a skate photo before someone has even finished popping and flicking a trick).

The magic of a REALLY good skate photo comes from nailing your timing (and lighting, but that’s a whole other topic). To some degree you can have rules for timing to consistently get something decent, like waiting till a skater drops their arms back to their sides after they pop, but they won’t always work. I don’t think there’s one right way to do it, but as the photographer you should definitely try to be intentional about it, since it’s going to make a difference in the feel of the photograph.

 I think the “messier” kind of shots we’re talking about where the board is much more mid-flip, are at least a little bit a response to how much innovation was going on at the time. New tricks and technical innovation demand photos that demonstrate how new and innovative those tricks are. The way the board is flipping is important visual information to some 10 year old who has only seen photos or maybe watched a few skate videos at their buddy’s house.

Fast forward 30 years and countless videos later, we can all fill in the blanks on a kickflip, 360 flip, etc, since we’ve seen them on video hundreds if not thousands of times, probably in slow motion at 4k60 at this point. The mystery isn’t there to the same degree, so it might be that the photographer isn’t as tempted to focus on it. I’d argue you don’t see sequences as often these days for a similar reason.

A flip trick, shot just as it is reaching its peak, just before or at the beginning of the catch, might be a more subtle way of telling us how the board is flipping, and gives the photographer a chance to focus on showing pop, distance, speed, and style in a different way. If we understand it’s a 360 flip any way, showing us a different kind of timing is a nice way to fill in more info and experiment.

 Neither is inherently better or worse, they just direct the viewer’s attention differently and can be more, or less, successful depending on what/who you want to capture.

TLDR: both are cool. If you’re the photographer, think about what’s cool about the trick/skater you’re shooting and how your timing can help show that off.



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Re: Photo timing for flip tricks in the 90s/00s compared to today
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2023, 09:42:58 AM »
I don't see the point of showing a flip trick that looks like an ollie or pop shove.
This is perfect timing,

Maybe photographers do it less because shooting a bit too late does not look bad, unlike too early, like this one,

I thought it was a kickflip at first glance.

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Re: Photo timing for flip tricks in the 90s/00s compared to today
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2023, 09:59:10 AM »
I actually was thinking about this the other night while watching a video part trying to see what the trick would look like as a photo. Couldn’t for the life of me get myself to decide whether it should be right before the catch or as soon as the board was caught.

Ricky Vaughn

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Re: Photo timing for flip tricks in the 90s/00s compared to today
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2023, 12:32:27 PM »
90’s skate photos > now
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Re: Photo timing for flip tricks in the 90s/00s compared to today
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2023, 04:18:37 PM »
As someone who got their photographic start shooting skating, I’d love to chime in on this one. I’ve definitely noticed the trend OP is describing, but if I could ramble a little…

I feel like the JOB of a skateboard photo is to tell the story of the trick. I should, assuming I have a basic understanding of skating, be able to look at a skate photo and interpret what’s happening. Think basic fisheye from the bottom of the set kind of photo: you’ve got the run up in one corner, the landing typically in the opposite corner, and the action in the middle. There’s a clear story there. In that functional sense, the timing of the flip trick only matters if it makes it harder to tell what’s happening (like when your local journalist or aspiring art student snaps a skate photo before someone has even finished popping and flicking a trick).

The magic of a REALLY good skate photo comes from nailing your timing (and lighting, but that’s a whole other topic). To some degree you can have rules for timing to consistently get something decent, like waiting till a skater drops their arms back to their sides after they pop, but they won’t always work. I don’t think there’s one right way to do it, but as the photographer you should definitely try to be intentional about it, since it’s going to make a difference in the feel of the photograph.

 I think the “messier” kind of shots we’re talking about where the board is much more mid-flip, are at least a little bit a response to how much innovation was going on at the time. New tricks and technical innovation demand photos that demonstrate how new and innovative those tricks are. The way the board is flipping is important visual information to some 10 year old who has only seen photos or maybe watched a few skate videos at their buddy’s house.

Fast forward 30 years and countless videos later, we can all fill in the blanks on a kickflip, 360 flip, etc, since we’ve seen them on video hundreds if not thousands of times, probably in slow motion at 4k60 at this point. The mystery isn’t there to the same degree, so it might be that the photographer isn’t as tempted to focus on it. I’d argue you don’t see sequences as often these days for a similar reason.

A flip trick, shot just as it is reaching its peak, just before or at the beginning of the catch, might be a more subtle way of telling us how the board is flipping, and gives the photographer a chance to focus on showing pop, distance, speed, and style in a different way. If we understand it’s a 360 flip any way, showing us a different kind of timing is a nice way to fill in more info and experiment.

 Neither is inherently better or worse, they just direct the viewer’s attention differently and can be more, or less, successful depending on what/who you want to capture.

TLDR: both are cool. If you’re the photographer, think about what’s cool about the trick/skater you’re shooting and how your timing can help show that off.
great post, and your point about innovation makes a lot of sense.

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Re: Photo timing for flip tricks in the 90s/00s compared to today
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2023, 04:35:32 PM »
Always like these 2 from 93/94.



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Re: Photo timing for flip tricks in the 90s/00s compared to today
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2023, 02:22:57 PM »

Maybe photographers do it less because shooting a bit too late does not look bad, unlike too early, like this one,

I thought it was a kickflip at first glance.

I dont understand how that 360 flip would complete the rotation - how does the nose (at the back in the photo) not clip the trash can? Maybe its the angle but my brain isn't understanding the flip...

Probably speaks to it being a confusing and not great photo.
Wow sorry, didn't realise I was dealing with a sick cunt here

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Re: Photo timing for flip tricks in the 90s/00s compared to today
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2023, 04:42:15 PM »
I dont understand how that 360 flip would complete the rotation - how does the nose (at the back in the photo) not clip the trash can? Maybe its the angle but my brain isn't understanding the flip...

Probably speaks to it being a confusing and not great photo.
Can at least confirm he made it. Clip is in Round 2, Blind section.

Only tidbit I might add is the 'modern' style of flip trick photos wouldn't work in the 90s. The catch usually wasn't peak height, as it is today.

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Re: Photo timing for flip tricks in the 90s/00s compared to today
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2023, 04:52:51 PM »
As a photog I will say the catch is just easier to time overall. And it almost gives you an extra split second of error time. Getting that magic of a flip trick mid flip and still looking good is harder to achieve.

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Re: Photo timing for flip tricks in the 90s/00s compared to today
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2024, 01:35:07 AM »
Expand Quote

Maybe photographers do it less because shooting a bit too late does not look bad, unlike too early, like this one,

I thought it was a kickflip at first glance.
[close]

I dont understand how that 360 flip would complete the rotation - how does the nose (at the back in the photo) not clip the trash can? Maybe its the angle but my brain isn't understanding the flip...

Probably speaks to it being a confusing and not great photo.


For me it is exactly the other way around. I love that photo because of the confusion it adds – considering only makes get published.

The evolution theory of @bigmike makes sense, but aesthetically i still prefer the 90s street skating photography.

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Re: Photo timing for flip tricks in the 90s/00s compared to today
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2024, 02:10:20 AM »
Press the shutter when knees are bent.
Worked like a charm when you had those crappy 35mm P&S cameras.
Expand Quote
forgive me if i somehow missed it, but could someone help me with just how flat the flat as fuck decks really are?
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Re: Photo timing for flip tricks in the 90s/00s compared to today
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2024, 03:09:11 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote

Maybe photographers do it less because shooting a bit too late does not look bad, unlike too early, like this one,

I thought it was a kickflip at first glance.
[close]

I dont understand how that 360 flip would complete the rotation - how does the nose (at the back in the photo) not clip the trash can? Maybe its the angle but my brain isn't understanding the flip...

Probably speaks to it being a confusing and not great photo.
[close]


For me it is exactly the other way around. I love that photo because of the confusion it adds – considering only makes get published.

The evolution theory of @bigmike makes sense, but aesthetically i still prefer the 90s street skating photography.

I agree. I love photos where I can’t quite tell what’s going on. This particular photo might not be the best example but I don’t think it’s a bad photo either. I love photos where I’m using my imagination. There’s been many photos over the years that I loved more than the actual clip. Big thanks to all the past and present photographers out there.

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Re: Photo timing for flip tricks in the 90s/00s compared to today
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2024, 04:22:33 AM »
If you told me that on average, skaters flip their board faster these days, I would totally believe you.

I feel like in the 90’s, you saw the “slow flip” way more often - especially on bigger stuff. Now everyone has a quick flick and catch.

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Re: Photo timing for flip tricks in the 90s/00s compared to today
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2024, 07:17:22 AM »
If you told me that on average, skaters flip their board faster these days, I would totally believe you.

I feel like in the 90’s, you saw the “slow flip” way more often - especially on bigger stuff. Now everyone has a quick flick and catch.

If someone wants to explain that this owes to moving from VHS to digital formats, I would also believe that.
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Re: Photo timing for flip tricks in the 90s/00s compared to today
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2024, 08:13:46 AM »
i think the switch from analog to digital and the instant gratification that came along with it (along with the popularity boom in skateboarding around the same time) made photography way more accessible and flattened distinct styles and approaches since photographers no longer needed to pull from a handful of shots and could see and manipulate their results in real time

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Re: Photo timing for flip tricks in the 90s/00s compared to today
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2024, 01:20:07 AM »
We need more examples from past and present, guys, keep posting photos

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Re: Photo timing for flip tricks in the 90s/00s compared to today
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2024, 01:19:04 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote

Maybe photographers do it less because shooting a bit too late does not look bad, unlike too early, like this one,

I thought it was a kickflip at first glance.
[close]

I dont understand how that 360 flip would complete the rotation - how does the nose (at the back in the photo) not clip the trash can? Maybe its the angle but my brain isn't understanding the flip...

Probably speaks to it being a confusing and not great photo.
[close]


For me it is exactly the other way around. I love that photo because of the confusion it adds – considering only makes get published.

The evolution theory of @bigmike makes sense, but aesthetically i still prefer the 90s street skating photography.
[close]

I agree. I love photos where I can’t quite tell what’s going on. This particular photo might not be the best example but I don’t think it’s a bad photo either. I love photos where I’m using my imagination. There’s been many photos over the years that I loved more than the actual clip. Big thanks to all the past and present photographers out there.

i imagine this photo is probably the actual make so they just went with it for whatever reason. but the thing about photos is you can just get the 1 make on video then you can get like 10-20 close ones, not a single one even rolling away, and you mihgt get a way better photo on one of those attempts... and thats probably 95% what gets used

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Re: Photo timing for flip tricks in the 90s/00s compared to today
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2024, 01:23:08 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote

Maybe photographers do it less because shooting a bit too late does not look bad, unlike too early, like this one,

I thought it was a kickflip at first glance.
[close]

I dont understand how that 360 flip would complete the rotation - how does the nose (at the back in the photo) not clip the trash can? Maybe its the angle but my brain isn't understanding the flip...

Probably speaks to it being a confusing and not great photo.
[close]


For me it is exactly the other way around. I love that photo because of the confusion it adds – considering only makes get published.

The evolution theory of @bigmike makes sense, but aesthetically i still prefer the 90s street skating photography.
[close]

I agree. I love photos where I can’t quite tell what’s going on. This particular photo might not be the best example but I don’t think it’s a bad photo either. I love photos where I’m using my imagination. There’s been many photos over the years that I loved more than the actual clip. Big thanks to all the past and present photographers out there.

Such a sick photo. It reminds me of those early Jason Lee 360 flip images that were so difficult to comprehend as a kid. For a second I couldn’t remember if this was the infamous photo that Kosick took while he was eating a cheeseburger but then I remembered that it was a long lens sequence of a backside kickflip he shot from across the street.

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Re: Photo timing for flip tricks in the 90s/00s compared to today
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2024, 10:46:23 AM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote

Maybe photographers do it less because shooting a bit too late does not look bad, unlike too early, like this one,

I thought it was a kickflip at first glance.
[close]

I dont understand how that 360 flip would complete the rotation - how does the nose (at the back in the photo) not clip the trash can? Maybe its the angle but my brain isn't understanding the flip...

Probably speaks to it being a confusing and not great photo.
[close]


For me it is exactly the other way around. I love that photo because of the confusion it adds – considering only makes get published.

The evolution theory of @bigmike makes sense, but aesthetically i still prefer the 90s street skating photography.
[close]

I agree. I love photos where I can’t quite tell what’s going on. This particular photo might not be the best example but I don’t think it’s a bad photo either. I love photos where I’m using my imagination. There’s been many photos over the years that I loved more than the actual clip. Big thanks to all the past and present photographers out there.
[close]

i imagine this photo is probably the actual make so they just went with it for whatever reason. but the thing about photos is you can just get the 1 make on video then you can get like 10-20 close ones, not a single one even rolling away, and you mihgt get a way better photo on one of those attempts... and thats probably 95% what gets used

I have no qualms with a different photo as the make as long as there was a make at some point.

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Re: Photo timing for flip tricks in the 90s/00s compared to today
« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2024, 07:33:14 PM »



Holy flashback, wow. I remember the caption said how they'd wedged the buttons on the water fountains down or taped them or something. Hell of a pic.
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Re: Photo timing for flip tricks in the 90s/00s compared to today
« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2024, 07:42:33 PM »
I wish there was more Gideon Choi footage.
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Expand Quote
Expand Quote

Maybe photographers do it less because shooting a bit too late does not look bad, unlike too early, like this one,

I thought it was a kickflip at first glance.
[close]

I dont understand how that 360 flip would complete the rotation - how does the nose (at the back in the photo) not clip the trash can? Maybe its the angle but my brain isn't understanding the flip...

Probably speaks to it being a confusing and not great photo.
[close]


For me it is exactly the other way around. I love that photo because of the confusion it adds – considering only makes get published.

The evolution theory of @bigmike makes sense, but aesthetically i still prefer the 90s street skating photography.

That is a clean looking shoe as well.