The Last Good Movie You Saw?

[Kook Me Amadeus]

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just watched Kubrick's The Killing.   Whilst I enjoyed it, afterwards I wasn't quite sure I was called the killing.   It's about a heist and there are several incidental deaths (this movie influenced Reservoir Dogs amongst others), but not one that really merits having the film titled after it...

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Definitely a great film, just takes a little to get into it.  Tried to rewatch it a few times and it’s a slow burner.  Pretty much the granddaddy of all horsetrack heist films.  Saying nothing new here but Kubrick is such a chameleon, I think his versatility makes him the GOAT.

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But why is it called THE Killing?

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Is it a play on the double meaning of the word - the potential monetary payoff of the heist (“to make a killing”) versus the deadly cost associated with their crime?

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Hmmm I’d buy that, but also think it’s too cerebral to be right.   But I like it

A decent theory:

https://ashleyvaught.com/stanley-kubrick-the-killing-1956-misanthropy/amp/#The_Killing_of_Whom

[TheSickness]

Power of the Dog - took a shot on it on Netflix last night as I always like Jesse Plemons, and Bennedict Cumberbatch is usually money.   Ended up being super impressed, the cinematography was top notch, the settings and characters were all well done.  100% recommend.

[ToshiroTownune]

Had a double feature today of a 2010 doc called Reindeer Spotting about a crew of Finnish drug addicts addicted to subutex engaging in petty crime, shooting up, and traveling around Europe that ends up being unusually affecting, and then it's 2020 sequel Lost Boys about where they ended up that is one of the most intense, harrowing films I've seen in a long time. Think Gaspar Noé, David Lynch, and Only God Forgives with a noir mystery at the center. Shows a ton of drug use, some real sex, and apparently a lot of people that didn't know they were being filmed. Very questionable ethics, but unlike anything out there. Highly recommend seeking both out.

[Atiba Applebum]

ATHENA on Netflix.   La Haine + ‘71 + kinda The Raid

[ToshiroTownune]

ATHENA on Netflix.   La Haine + ‘71 + kinda The Raid

+ a heaping helping of Battle of Algiers. I don't think it ever matched that opening sequence, but what a way to start a film.

[jakeumms]

Sundance theater on Sunset was my shit pre-AMC (and for its briefer than expected life as an AMC). 

Ah OK. I looked this up on Gmaps when Atiba mentioned it because I had no idea it was an AMC and I couldn't picture the theater. I remember it as a Laemmle and vaguely remember it changing over to Sundance. What a slutty little multiscreen.

Regarding The Killing; Jim Thompson wrote the script and definitely used those types of double meanings so I always read it as KMA's interpretation. If you haven't read any of his books, they're early 20th century trash in the best sense and you will likely rip through them. Couple of great film adaptations with The Grifters and After Dark My Sweet and then some others that are a little more mid but also worth a look. I'm a big fan and I have never understood why Kubrick liked him so much. The seem to be on two different waves but it's hard to fuck with Paths of Glory.

[Kook Me Amadeus]

The omniscient narrator in Killing makes it feel sort of dated.  Kubrick definitely upped his voice over game from there on.

[Kook Me Amadeus]

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Sundance theater on Sunset was my shit pre-AMC (and for its briefer than expected life as an AMC). 

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Ah OK. I looked this up on Gmaps when Atiba mentioned it because I had no idea it was an AMC and I couldn't picture the theater. I remember it as a Laemmle and vaguely remember it changing over to Sundance. What a slutty little multiscreen.

   Well done.

[slimvanilla]

watched Eraserhead last night. what in the actual fuck

[Atiba Applebum]

Saw No Hard Feelings.  Just a nice good laugh in a movie theater like it should be.   Nothing complicated (also a Eastern Promises type scene if you need that to be a selling point)

[EdLawndale]

Where do you guys stand on Terrence Malick?

I think "Badlands" and "Days of Heaven" are masterpieces.

I remember being ho-hum on "Tree of Life" but it did win the Palme D'Or so I picked it up for a rewatch.

I also remember being bored out of mind by "The Thin Red Line" on DVD but I was probably too young at the time. Going to see it on the big screen so it's getting its real day in court.

Also, not Malick but I just bought "Beasts of No Nation" because I haven't seen it since its theatrical release but remember being really impressed by it and I love Cary Fukunaga, esp "Sin Nombre" and "True Detective" S1. Thought he did a good job with "No Time To Die" as well.

[Atiba Applebum]

Where do you guys stand on Terrence Malick?

I think "Badlands" and "Days of Heaven" are masterpieces.

I remember being ho-hum on "Tree of Life" but it did win the Palme D'Or so I picked it up for a rewatch.

I also remember being bored out of mind by "The Thin Red Line" on DVD but I was probably too young at the time. Going to see it on the big screen so it's getting its real day in court.

I’ve learned films cinematographers cream their jeans over tend to be the most boring movies (Roger Deakins is the exception)

Lubecki’s cinematography/z-axis movements was novel in ToL (but I too feel the same as you) but I feel it’s  descended into parody.

Fascinating to know why someone who was so particular with what they did for decades all of a sudden felt the need to release a bunch of mediocre films (after ToL) on par with FF Coppola in the 90s and 00s

[EdLawndale]

Yeah, I haven't seen any Malick more recent than "Tree of Life".

I prefer Bob Richardson to Deakins. All of his work with Oliver Stone is top notch, imo. "Natural Born Killers" is another straight up masterpiece in my mind.

[ToshiroTownune]

I just bought "Beasts of No Nation" because I haven't seen it since its theatrical release but remember being really impressed by it and I love Cary Fukunaga, esp "Sin Nombre" and "True Detective" S1. Thought he did a good job with "No Time To Die" as well.

In addition to being super talented, Cary's also a sexual predator and plagiarist.

He shamelessly ripped off an Irish photographer for beasts
https://news.artnet.com/art-world/did-beasts-no-nation-director-rip-off-richard-mosse-361970

And he got me too'ed by skater Rachelle Vinberg, which lead to even more women coming forward about his overall bad behavior, sexual misconduct and grooming
https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-features/cary-fukunaga-no-time-to-die-1359656/

Actress Rachelle Vinberg claimed earlier this month in a lengthy Instagram story that she was diagnosed with PTSD from her friendship that eventually turned sexual with Fukunaga, whom she met in 2016 on a Samsung-commercial set the day after she turned 18. “I spent years being scared of him,” Vinberg wrote on Instagram. “Mans is a groomer and has been doing this shit for years. Beware women.”

He directed four episodes of an apple series coming out some time this year, but it'll be interesting to see if he gets more work now that people have gone on the record about him.

[Atiba Applebum]

I’m of two minds about referential and plagiarism.   I have ZERO issues with QT doing it because he recontextualizes references and it’s a product of his love and knowledge of film.   He’s like a hip hop producer in that way.       

Doing A to A references like that is preeeeetty suspect creatively.   It’s like Killing Joke/Come As You are Elastica/Three Girl Rhumba

[ToshiroTownune]

This was the money quote from the og photographer that for me definitely moves it from inspiration to theft

Imagery that I have been making in Congo since 2010 has been used in a derivative scene from the new film Beasts of No Nation. The film’s director, Cary Fukunaga, emailed me during production to—as he explained—“pick your brain” because “some of your work has struck our aesthetic appetite.” However, he has never cited my work as an influence and even gone out of his way to conceal his sources."

[PatrickSkateman]

Asteroid City.

It was a bit darker and more complex than the usual Wes Anderson film.

[Atiba Applebum]

This was the money quote from the og photographer that for me definitely moves it from inspiration to theft

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Imagery that I have been making in Congo since 2010 has been used in a derivative scene from the new film Beasts of No Nation. The film’s director, Cary Fukunaga, emailed me during production to—as he explained—“pick your brain” because “some of your work has struck our aesthetic appetite.” However, he has never cited my work as an influence and even gone out of his way to conceal his sources."

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I don’t know how you go out of your way to say you weren’t inspired by someone.  Movies don’t come with bibliographies.   If, say, I’m writing something and am having a scene referencing Ben Gazarra’s first scene in Road House, to what extent am I responsible for declaring that inspiration?    How often does the person with out any art history knowledge know how often Edward Hopper is replicated.    I think it’s not necessarily cool what CF did since it’s the same subject matter, but does it infringe upon the original artist’s ability to earn a living at all?   




But people said, ‘Oh, these young people are stealing your stuff.’ To Balzac. And Balzac said, ‘That's why I wrote it. I want them to take everything, whatever I have, they're welcome, these young authors. Take all you want. One, because it can't really come out like me because each one of them is an individual and it's going to come out like them, so they can't steal it. They can appropriate it, but it's going to come out through them. And number two, it gives me immortality, so whatever I do, if young people take it, are influenced by it, and so and so, it's great. Because that then makes me part of their work. And I go on.’

[EdLawndale]

This was the money quote from the og photographer that for me definitely moves it from inspiration to theft

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Imagery that I have been making in Congo since 2010 has been used in a derivative scene from the new film Beasts of No Nation. The film’s director, Cary Fukunaga, emailed me during production to—as he explained—“pick your brain” because “some of your work has struck our aesthetic appetite.” However, he has never cited my work as an influence and even gone out of his way to conceal his sources."

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The allegations regarding inappropriate interactions with women, I find concerning.

This, less so.

I'm not familiar with Mosse's work and can't remember this scene in "BONN". I saw the screenshots and they do look very similar (mainly young African men brandishing firearms with backgrounds of red leaves), probably more so than other situations of "borrowing" that at least change some elements of the image.

That said, Mosse didn't pursue litigation. Would a shout out in the "Special Thanks To" section of the credits have sufficed? What did Mosse expect when he engaged in a conversation with Fukunaga, entertaining his clear inquiry? Why give out the recipe for the red leaf special sauce without some sort of agreement in place ensuring acknowledgment? That's weird to me, but I'm paranoid in general.

I guess there could be, like, a cultural appropriation aspect to it if the original photographer was the same skin color as the subjects in question, giving him arguably more inherent ownership of the imagery...but I just looked Mosse up and he's whiter than snow.

Stuff like this kind of reminds me of Tupac bragging about being the one to give Biggie advice to rap for the ladies instead of doing "Party & Bullshit" records, but then when Biggie follows the advice and is successful at it, Tupac gets mad.

[ToshiroTownune]

Haha. Oh man, I was not expecting a reference to Ben Gazarra in Roadhouse. I had an ex who turned me onto the film and she always called him "JCPenney Man." Fingers crossed we'll get some naked tai chi and throat ripping in the upcoming remake.

As far as going out of his way to not cite the inspiration for the images, I was interpreting his quote as being that whenever Fukunaga was asked about his influences for the film, he never mentioned Robert Moses. Not sure exactly what he meant by concealing sources, but there's a number of ways Fukunaga could have given Moses credit. By theft, I was thinking about it in terms of Fukunaga essentially recreating multiple images and the email proved that it wasn't just a case of like minds handling similar subject material.

Ed, is there a level of concerning that would make you not watch someone's work? I'm not saying you should, but in the case of Rachelle, she had posted texts from Fukunaga supporting her claims, so it's not just allegations.

[Useless Wooden Bench]

Where do you guys stand on Terrence Malick?

I think "Badlands" and "Days of Heaven" are masterpieces.

I remember being ho-hum on "Tree of Life" but it did win the Palme D'Or so I picked it up for a rewatch.

I also remember being bored out of mind by "The Thin Red Line" on DVD but I was probably too young at the time. Going to see it on the big screen so it's getting its real day in court.

Also, not Malick but I just bought "Beasts of No Nation" because I haven't seen it since its theatrical release but remember being really impressed by it and I love Cary Fukunaga, esp "Sin Nombre" and "True Detective" S1. Thought he did a good job with "No Time To Die" as well.

I thought 2019's A Hidden Life was his best film in many many years, if you're in the mood for Malick.

[Atiba Applebum]

Haha. Oh man, I was not expecting a reference to Ben Gazarra in Roadhouse. I had an ex who turned me onto the film and she always called him "JCPenney Man." Fingers crossed we'll get some naked tai chi and throat ripping in the upcoming remake.

As far as going out of his way to not cite the inspiration for the images, I was interpreting his quote as being that whenever Fukunaga was asked about his influences for the film, he never mentioned Robert Moses. Not sure exactly what he meant by concealing sources, but there's a number of ways Fukunaga could have given Moses credit. By theft, I was thinking about it in terms of Fukunaga essentially recreating multiple images and the email proved that it wasn't just a case of like minds handling similar subject material.

Ed, is there a level of concerning that would make you not watch someone's work? I'm not saying you should, but in the case of Rachelle, she had posted texts from Fukunaga supporting her claims, so it's not just allegations.

What were the texts?   He is no doubt an asshole, creep, gross piece of shit, but after reading that article, it didn’t seem like he did anything illegal.   You asked @EdLawndale , but that is my barrier.  Hard to get anything done if you discount everyone who’s sucks on a personal level.   

[Kook Me Amadeus]

Somehow totally missed that Cary Fukunaga abuse story.  What a fucking creep.  Nothing technically illegal in his treatment of women from the article, but just such a gross misuse of power - it makes me not want to support his work.  It’s some Hitchcock level abuse, and I haven’t figured out how to separate art from artist fully when the person in question is still alive.

[ToshiroTownune]

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Haha. Oh man, I was not expecting a reference to Ben Gazarra in Roadhouse. I had an ex who turned me onto the film and she always called him "JCPenney Man." Fingers crossed we'll get some naked tai chi and throat ripping in the upcoming remake.

As far as going out of his way to not cite the inspiration for the images, I was interpreting his quote as being that whenever Fukunaga was asked about his influences for the film, he never mentioned Robert Moses. Not sure exactly what he meant by concealing sources, but there's a number of ways Fukunaga could have given Moses credit. By theft, I was thinking about it in terms of Fukunaga essentially recreating multiple images and the email proved that it wasn't just a case of like minds handling similar subject material.

Ed, is there a level of concerning that would make you not watch someone's work? I'm not saying you should, but in the case of Rachelle, she had posted texts from Fukunaga supporting her claims, so it's not just allegations.

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What were the texts?   He is no doubt an asshole, creep, gross piece of shit, but after reading that article, it didn’t seem like he did anything illegal.   You asked @EdLawndale , but that is my barrier.  Hard to get anything done if you discount everyone who’s sucks on a personal level.

It was Fukunaga acknowledging how he had treated her, apologizing, and asking for forgiveness, if I'm remembering correctly. It looks like she has since taken them down, but multiple exes of Fukunaga's (including Margaret Qualley), liked the posts, seemingly affirming the accusations. Based on the quotes from the articles I'd argue his conduct on set could definitely meet the legal definition of sexual harassment/workplace harassment. His behavior seems very similar to Joss Whedon, whose career has been completely nuked. The difference though is Joss had held himself up as this feminist super ally and has acknowledged and apologized, while Fukunaga has vaguely worded statements from his lawyer.

How do we all feel about Polanski? I still love and watch Chinatown, but we know for a fact he drugged and anally raped a 13-year-old. I'm generally fine with watching and listening to stuff made by horrible people and separating the art from the artist, but I will go out of my way to pirate it if they're still around so they don't get any payment.

[Atiba Applebum]

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Haha. Oh man, I was not expecting a reference to Ben Gazarra in Roadhouse. I had an ex who turned me onto the film and she always called him "JCPenney Man." Fingers crossed we'll get some naked tai chi and throat ripping in the upcoming remake.

As far as going out of his way to not cite the inspiration for the images, I was interpreting his quote as being that whenever Fukunaga was asked about his influences for the film, he never mentioned Robert Moses. Not sure exactly what he meant by concealing sources, but there's a number of ways Fukunaga could have given Moses credit. By theft, I was thinking about it in terms of Fukunaga essentially recreating multiple images and the email proved that it wasn't just a case of like minds handling similar subject material.

Ed, is there a level of concerning that would make you not watch someone's work? I'm not saying you should, but in the case of Rachelle, she had posted texts from Fukunaga supporting her claims, so it's not just allegations.

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What were the texts?   He is no doubt an asshole, creep, gross piece of shit, but after reading that article, it didn’t seem like he did anything illegal.   You asked @EdLawndale , but that is my barrier.  Hard to get anything done if you discount everyone who’s sucks on a personal level.

[close]

It was Fukunaga acknowledging how he had treated her, apologizing, and asking for forgiveness, if I'm remembering correctly. It looks like she has since taken them down, but multiple exes of Fukunaga's (including Margaret Qualley), liked the posts, seemingly affirming the accusations. Based on the quotes from the articles I'd argue his conduct on set could definitely meet the legal definition of sexual harassment/workplace harassment. His behavior seems very similar to Joss Whedon, whose career has been completely nuked. The difference though is Joss had held himself up as this feminist super ally and has acknowledged and apologized, while Fukunaga has vaguely worded statements from his lawyer.

How do we all feel about Polanski? I still love and watch Chinatown, but we know for a fact he drugged and anally raped a 13-year-old. I'm generally fine with watching and listening to stuff made by horrible people and separating the art from the artist, but I will go out of my way to pirate it if they're still around so they don't get any payment.

In the article Cary championed himself as well.    He basically got Kenny AnderSONned

[Kook Me Amadeus]

Gnarly topic.  It’s good anything can be discussed here but this isn’t my favorite subject to be honest.  It feels like there are no winners, and while I find it interesting and important to look at without censure, it makes me feel like a hyprocrite for enjoying Chinatown, and other films with questionable creators.  I feel like it’s complicated who really authored those films and who exactly they belong to - it’s certainly a matter of opinion.

I like how this thread mainly discusses movies people are into/not into… it’s got me more stoked on films than I have been in a while.  I really appreciate all of you guys and your passion for cinema.

[EdLawndale]

Glad you are here.

[jakeumms]

Yeah this has turned into one of my favorite threads even if I can barely keep up with new release recs. I'm totally OK with it being my personal electronic press kit.

[jamersonbass]

This might be kind of a reach, but if there are any fans of We're Still Here (recent-ish 70's style ghost story), I've got some news for you.

Brooklyn 45 is like a greatest hits from that movie.  It's like some producers watched We're Still Here, and told Ted Geoghegan that they would fund a new film if he emphasized certain aspects from his previous film.  Larry Fessenden kills it so hard.  Great social commentary through the lens of post WW2 Park Slope.  It's also basically set in one room too, and they pull it off really well.  4 Stars from churrboi.

[Kook Me Amadeus]

Asteroid City.

It was a bit darker and more complex than the usual Wes Anderson film.

Thought it was amazing.  Need to see it again now.