"The Real McCain"

[imfed]

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/21470

I read this article about a month ago and found it to be one of the most informative and refreshing pieces on either candidate.  If you read nothing else at least to skip to the part where he makes and offensive remark to his wife. 

[Prison Wallet]

[sebastian toombs]

[BabyKillaSeason]

fuck that guy.

[spungo]

Where's Alaska to defend this old fart?

[Dr Newton]

The real Barack Obama supports killing LIVING babies.

My stance on abortion is not conservative by any means, but these are babies that have actually been born here:



Note: I couldn't find the actual YouTube speech, but here is commentary on it.

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

The real Barack Obama supports killing LIVING babies.

My stance on abortion is not conservative by any means, but these are babies that have actually been born here:



Note: I couldn't find the actual YouTube speech, but here is commentary on it.

1. Abortion is a wedge issue that is incredibly unimportant compared to other bread and butter issues we face this election such as the health care, energy, and economic crises.
2. Sean Hannity talking to Ann Coulter about it? Get the fuck out of here. The two most obnoxious right wing exagerators on the planet. Coulter isn't even allowed on most shows anymore because she is so dogshit crazy.
3. He's too pro-choice for you? You call yourself a libertarian? pussy.

[spungo]

The gipper is right.  Dr. Newton is a stinking pussy.

[Dr Newton]

Expand Quote

The real Barack Obama supports killing LIVING babies.

My stance on abortion is not conservative by any means, but these are babies that have actually been born here:



Note: I couldn't find the actual YouTube speech, but here is commentary on it.

[close]

1. Abortion is a wedge issue that is incredibly unimportant compared to other bread and butter issues we face this election such as the health care, energy, and economic crises.
2. Sean Hannity talking to Ann Coulter about it? Get the fuck out of here. The two most obnoxious right wing exagerators on the planet. Coulter isn't even allowed on most shows anymore because she is so dogshit crazy.
3. He's too pro-choice for you? You call yourself a libertarian? pussy.

1. So the fact that John McCain has a temper is not a wedge issue, but something of major importance?
2. Find the goddamn speech for yourself then. Like I said, it's somewhere in depths of YouTube.
3. Fuck you. These are not embryos. They are living, breathing, out of the womb children. Allowing them to be killed is absolutely against everything any libertarians stand for. I believe people have rights. I believe abortion should remain legal. Killing children that have already been born is not an abortion. Most Americans agree with that stance -- that is why Barack Obama felt the need to lie about his stance on it in both the state legislature and in the Senate.

[Dr Newton]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chicago/chi-zorn_21aug21,0,6556075.column

Here is a link from that bastion of conservative propaganda, the Chicago Tribune. Note that Barack Obama is in charge of writing the neutrality language for the bill to prevent it from harming regular old abortion rights. So he does that without any objections, and then votes against his own bill. Amazing.

I mean, honestly. I had no idea that people actually thought this was acceptable. I don't care where you stand on abortion, killing a baby once it's been born is just appalling. Even Ted Kennedy, John Kerry, and Hillary Clinton do not have a position this extreme.

[grimcity]

Doc?

[Wizard Fuck]

I was talking to this guy yesterday, and he said that Obama is a communist because Russians used liberal as a term to describe communism and all of this crazy shit.
The guy was a complete nut case. He said they should allow all decent people, to kill up to 2 indecent people a week. He said he's had in his mind who he wants to kill for years now. He also supports Bush/Cheney....thinks they are great leaders if that tells you anything.
/rant.

[beeda weeda]

Doc?

wait until that ginger blows his load in some drunk fat girl , and 3 weeks later she gives him that call, his view will change.

[Al Bania]

He said they should allow all decent people, to kill up to 2 indecent people a week.

sounds like might he be onto something there

[grimcity]

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Doc?

[close]

wait until that ginger blows his load in some drunk fat girl , and 3 weeks later she gives him that call, his view will change.

I'm pretty sure he'll get a job on Fox as a political analyst before he ever gets a chance to spread his red, pasty seed.

...then he'll be buying abortions for all of his right wing groupies.

[Prison Wallet]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chicago/chi-zorn_21aug21,0,6556075.column

Here is a link from that bastion of conservative propaganda, the Chicago Tribune. Note that Barack Obama is in charge of writing the neutrality language for the bill to prevent it from harming regular old abortion rights. So he does that without any objections, and then votes against his own bill. Amazing.

I mean, honestly. I had no idea that people actually thought this was acceptable. I don't care where you stand on abortion, killing a baby once it's been born is just appalling. Even Ted Kennedy, John Kerry, and Hillary Clinton do not have a position this extreme.

Here's a little free advice Newt: if you want to be taken seriously don't link Hannity/Coulter commentary to make your point. But I can see why you would; your talk of his "extreme" position and "killing a child once its born" is the same slanted rhetoric the far right spews,  so its seems you buy in.

I read the Chicago Tribune article and it was clear that bill was politically charged; he was smart not to sign it. It brought into question state rights and the legality of abortion within 5 weeks of conception.

"Killing a child once its born is appalling..." You think? You're just a bastion of insight.

You're too uninformed on the issue to have meaningful debate with if that's what you think this is about. Killing a child once its born is murder. Period. This isn't about doctors killing an unwanted child after it's born, its about the level of care the provide and when. Its a really complex issue your pea brain isn't developed enough to handle.

My wife's a pediatrician and her best friend is an OBGYN, so that's my point of reference just to make things clear. As far as my understanding goes all talk of "infanticide" centers around children born with conditions such trizomy (sp?) 18, a fatal genetic disorder. What level of care and at what expense do you provide care for a child that is going to die, and live a painful existence in the meantime? Or how about children born with a brainstem, but no brain, that can actively breath and have a heartbeat? Do the parents deserve a say in their level of care or is it left to the courts?  

[sebastian toombs]

there arent enough hours in the day for kooking fig newton...

[Nihilist]

[Dr Newton]

Expand Quote

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chicago/chi-zorn_21aug21,0,6556075.column

Here is a link from that bastion of conservative propaganda, the Chicago Tribune. Note that Barack Obama is in charge of writing the neutrality language for the bill to prevent it from harming regular old abortion rights. So he does that without any objections, and then votes against his own bill. Amazing.

I mean, honestly. I had no idea that people actually thought this was acceptable. I don't care where you stand on abortion, killing a baby once it's been born is just appalling. Even Ted Kennedy, John Kerry, and Hillary Clinton do not have a position this extreme.

[close]

Here's a little free advice Newt: if you want to be taken seriously don't link Hannity/Coulter commentary to make your point. But I can see why you would; your talk of his "extreme" position and "killing a child once its born" is the same slanted rhetoric the far right spews,  so its seems you buy in.

I read the Chicago Tribune article and it was clear that bill was politically charged; he was smart not to sign it. It brought into question state rights and the legality of abortion within 5 weeks of conception.

"Killing a child once its born is appalling..." You think? You're just a bastion of insight.

You're too uninformed on the issue to have meaningful debate with if that's what you think this is about. Killing a child once its born is murder. Period. This isn't about doctors killing an unwanted child after it's born, its about the level of care the provide and when. Its a really complex issue your pea brain isn't developed enough to handle.

My wife's a pediatrician and her best friend is an OBGYN, so that's my point of reference just to make things clear. As far as my understanding goes all talk of "infanticide" centers around children born with conditions such trizomy (sp?) 18, a fatal genetic disorder. What level of care and at what expense do you provide care for a child that is going to die, and live a painful existence in the meantime? Or how about children born with a brainstem, but no brain, that can actively breath and have a heartbeat? Do the parents deserve a say in their level of care or is it left to the courts?   

LOL. Your wife's community college degree doesn't make her an expert on the subject. "Oh, we don't want to murder them once they're born. We just want to stuff them into a broom closet and wait for them to die." With this rationale, it would be okay to lock a nine year old in a closet and just leave him there until he starved to death. There is nothing complex about it, and a government school teacher who probably doesn't even make $40,000 in an entire year is going to tell me it's "too complex."

[grimcity]

A preemptive ad hominem attack, at least one strawman argument (maybe two?), and dismissing  jesco's wife's profession.

C'mon dude, you can do better.

[Prison Wallet]

Do you need me to define "pediatrician" you little weasel? There's a little "MD" at the end of her name that you can't get at a community college. And while you're at it I'm not a government school teacher, unless you're talking about the state university I teach a class for.

You're knowledge base is sooooo off if you think withdrawing care from a child with trizomy 18 is the same as "locking a 9 year old in a closet." Are you saying parents who have an infant with a fatal condition don't have the right to take that child home, nurture and love it in that environment until it dies? They can't build memories of their child in that environment? You think the state should force families to build a life around the hospital, bankrupting them for futile treatments, to extend the child's life a few months?

You're a bigger idiot than I thought if you think this issue isn't complex.

[Dr Newton]

A preemptive ad hominem attack, at least one strawman argument (maybe two?), and dismissing  jesco's wife's profession.

C'mon dude, you can do better.

There is no logical argument going on. The major point of his post is that this issue is "too complex" for me to grasp. He then goes on to mention his wife's profession, as if it matters. My family has a pediatrician and a nurse in it too, but citing them as experts on this issue not a valid argument.

[grimcity]

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A preemptive ad hominem attack, at least one strawman argument (maybe two?), and dismissing  jesco's wife's profession.

C'mon dude, you can do better.

[close]

What cold hard facts should

Should what?

[Dr Newton]

Expand Quote

Expand Quote

A preemptive ad hominem attack, at least one strawman argument (maybe two?), and dismissing  jesco's wife's profession.

C'mon dude, you can do better.

[close]

What cold hard facts should

[close]

Should what?

I misclicked and sent the post too fast. Sorry.

[Dr Newton]

Do you need me to define "pediatrician" you little weasel? There's a little "MD" at the end of her name that you can't get at a community college. And while you're at it I'm not a government school teacher, unless you're talking about the state university I teach a class for.

You're knowledge base is sooooo off if you think withdrawing care from a child with trizomy 18 is the same as "locking a 9 year old in a closet." Are you saying parents who have an infant with a fatal condition don't have the right to take that child home, nurture and love it in that environment until it dies? They can't build memories of their child in that environment? You think the state should force families to build a life around the hospital, bankrupting them for futile treatments, to extend the child's life a few months?

You're a bigger idiot than I thought if you think this issue isn't complex.

It doesn't require the child to have a fatal condition. It's for failed abortions where the child is born alive. Where did that even come from? What are you and your oh-so-educated wife even talking about?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Born-Alive_Infants_Protection_Act

It extended legal protection to an infant born alive after a failed attempt at induced abortion.

"Sending the parents into bankruptcy"? In most states it's legal to give up your child to the state as soon as you have it, making the state responsible for the costs. In any case, it doesn't really matter. If you cause a wreck, you're responsible for paying for the injuries to any victims of your horrible driving. If you cause a child to be born, why should you not be responsible for the costs incurred?

[Prison Wallet]

Expand Quote

A preemptive ad hominem attack, at least one strawman argument (maybe two?), and dismissing  jesco's wife's profession.

C'mon dude, you can do better.

[close]

There is no logical argument going on. The major point of his post is that this issue is "too complex" for me to grasp. He then goes on to mention his wife's profession, as if it matters. My family has a pediatrician and a nurse in it too, but citing them as experts on this issue not a valid argument.

The reference to my wife and her friend was to frame where my knowledge base is coming from, it wasn't an argument. I've engaged in long discussions with them about these issues and they are experts. My wife delivers and provides care to the children we're discussing.

And the reason I think this issue is too complex for you as because to you it's black and white. You think not providing all treatments possible is the same as "locking a child in a closet and starving them." What if the prognosis of the treatment is incredibly poor but extremely expensive? The question becomes "how poor?" and "how expensive?" Those are legitimate conversations that have to take place. Your position is the government should step in and force hospitals to provide those treatments.

Here's little example for your dumb ass, since I know you need concrete examples... You have a child with Trisomy 18 and the doctors give him 2 months to live, tops. With intensive, constant medical treatments you can extend his life a month or two at the cost of hundreds of thousands of dollars. Wouldn't you want a choice, whether it be take him home and let him die a natural death or provide those treatments?

[Dr Newton]

Expand Quote

Expand Quote

A preemptive ad hominem attack, at least one strawman argument (maybe two?), and dismissing  jesco's wife's profession.

C'mon dude, you can do better.

[close]

There is no logical argument going on. The major point of his post is that this issue is "too complex" for me to grasp. He then goes on to mention his wife's profession, as if it matters. My family has a pediatrician and a nurse in it too, but citing them as experts on this issue not a valid argument.

[close]

The reference to my wife and her friend was to frame where my knowledge base is coming from, it wasn't an argument. I've engaged in long discussions with them about these issues and they are experts. My wife delivers and provides care to the children we're discussing.

And the reason I think this issue is too complex for you as because to you it's black and white. You think not providing all treatments possible is the same as "locking a child in a closet and starving them." What if the prognosis of the treatment is incredibly poor but extremely expensive? The question becomes "how poor?" and "how expensive?" Those are legitimate conversations that have to take place. Your position is the government should step in and force hospitals to provide those treatments.

Here's little example for your dumb ass, since I know you need concrete examples... You have a child with Trisomy 18 and the doctors give him 2 months to live, tops. With intensive, constant medical treatments you can extend his life a month or two at the cost of hundreds of thousands of dollars. Wouldn't you want a choice, whether it be take him home and let him die a natural death or provide those treatments?

Hey shithead, I would want the child to receive the standard amount of care that any other child with Trisomy 18 is born with. Stop bringing up irrelevant medical issues. What to do with children with fatal illnesses is a completely separate discussion. A fatal illness is not a prerequisite for a child to survive a botched abortion.

What government "college" is it that allows a person who is not capable of producing a valid argument to teach a class? And what class is it that you are teaching exactly? I would like a number figure on the number of minds that you are screwing up. There are many posters here that I disagree with and still have some respect for -- The Gipper, grimcity, and even Vegan as much as I love to give him hell. One poster that I have absolutely no respect for is you. I genuinely believe that you are a stupid person.

[Prison Wallet]

You got me... The right to life debate and legislation has no medical repercussions. And there's no connection between the legislation as it pertains to botched abortions and other birth complications, regarding required vs. elective care.

See that's the complexity I'm talking about. It takes a certain level or sophistication to draw links within a certain field.

And I teach Ed Psych.

[Sony MDR V2 headphones]

Doc?

   videos like this make me wonder if youtube should've ever been created in the first place. just because you can face a camera and talk shit, does not give you legitimacy to do so. i remember i was in gatlinburg tn and on the street signs there were stickers that read "myspace.com/cokehascancer" and i thought what came first? the myspace, or the theory that coke has cancer.

   the internet is an extremely useful tool, but goddamn, the user friendly websites and self-filmed rant videos on a massive fucking exposure level almost outweigh the free skate-videos and music downloads. watch the rest of his videos, or chris crocker's, or the 1,000's of other people who think that anyone gives a fuck about what they have to say. these idiots should be ip banned from the internet.

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

Newton- to have a third trimester abortion, the only kind in which a baby would possibly survive, requires major problems with the baby from the get-go in order for the operation to be performed. People don't just get third trimester abortions for the hell of it.

But that doesn't even matter. Like I said,
its a wedge issue
and won't effect a single person here. But it sure gets people arguing, and maybe can get people to vote against him, even though this doesn't mean shit. It's not like if Obama became president he would go on a rampage skinning babies and throwing them at walls.

McCaIn's temper is a HUGE issue that DOES effect us. As commander-in-chief, with the ability to attack whoever the hell he wants, and his finger on the button, his temper could be bad for us all. The ability to work with the other branches of congress and foreign leaders  is at stake as well. Its called diplomacy and hotheads suck at it.  Don't tell me that a person with a job as important as President doesn't need to be level headed.

Oh, and don't talk shit on somebody for making $40k as an educator. It's easy to live off of and you don't have to hate yourself for doing it. How much do you make a year as a conman giving stupid kids bullshit skate lessons? Oh, I forgot, mommy and daddy still feed you. Any independent person has a leg up on a person who depends on others. Don't give me any excuses about how you are still young, there are self-made millionaires at your age, loser. Predictions of your own future greatness don't count either. Anybody can talk about bigger plans.