Dear fourstar...

[Paul Cicero]

^ Agree! ^ ... Also, I don't even think it's about right or wrong, it's about respect. I'm sure Guy was well taken care of, his choice to leave was based on greed. And yes, I am aware that he's at the back end of his career bla bla, IMO it's even more reason to stay loyal to the people that have had your back since day one.

[phillip dominguez]

You need to think, if this is true, how did they then manage to keep the rest of the team, which is no small team of no names by any means, on apparently what seems to be good terms? Are the rest of the riders all still happy to stay and get fucked over while Howard and Carroll become multi squazzilionaires?
I have come up watching skating for the past 30 years and seen lots of changes. Howard and Carroll are the good guys in my opinion , even if they use shitty chinese wood at the moment.
Its also my opinion that Kookston got in Marianos ear, turning him to the dark side and I don't just mean Nike.
Koston and Mariano are two of my favourite skaters, but times have changed. They aren't the same skaters anymore and I am pretty sure that while they may sell a  couple of boards at whatever new venture they choose to pursue, leaving Crailtap entirely probably wasn't the right thing to do.
Who knows though? I could be completely wrong... I have been before.

 


[/quote]

Supposedly Crailtap owed a lot of their riders back pay and assured them when the Altamont deal went through they'd all be taken care of.  Koston and Mariano are supposed to be part owners of Fourstar, kind of like Rudy and Mariano were supposed to be for Royal.  Although I have no fucking clue who makes Royal their preferred truck to ride, but to each their own.  Deal goes through, no back pay paid.  Mariano goes in tells them I want to quit Lakai to ride for Nike, obviously for the money, still want to ride for Girl, Fourstar, and Royal.  Crailtap tells him you quit one you quit them all.  Yeah he did it for money, I never said he didn't.  Im sure Nike offered him way fucking more than Lakai could pay.  Based off what's been put out lately Kostons supposed reason for getting a lawyer was for money owed to him, and that's when the "short changing" came out.  As far as the rest of the team, and them getting paid, the back payment to them probably wouldn't have been as much as a supposed co owner in a brand. Bird and Johnston also dipped from them after the Altamont deal went through which seemed strange, but let's just chalk that up to them going for the big shoe cash.  This is just what I heard lately and everyone knows Crailtap has been in financial trouble for a while now.  Maybe someday they'll shed light on it all, or maybe not.  Who knows maybe it was all started over a supposed wheel invoice discrepancy like what got the ball rolling to start Girl. 

[arcam]

Here's my take.
Koston and Mariano founded Fourstar but never invested any capital.the Altamont deal happened and they expected a pay day..yet they never invested any capital..got sour,left

[andocom]

Surely all these guys had lawyers looking over these deals if they had skin in the game. If you are talking to private equity without experts checking every aspect thats a recipe for disaster. Those guys do these deals for a living and aren't running charities.

[Paul Cicero]

You need to think, if this is true, how did they then manage to keep the rest of the team, which is no small team of no names by any means, on apparently what seems to be good terms? Are the rest of the riders all still happy to stay and get fucked over while Howard and Carroll become multi squazzilionaires?
I have come up watching skating for the past 30 years and seen lots of changes. Howard and Carroll are the good guys in my opinion , even if they use shitty chinese wood at the moment.
Its also my opinion that Kookston got in Marianos ear, turning him to the dark side and I don't just mean Nike.
Koston and Mariano are two of my favourite skaters, but times have changed. They aren't the same skaters anymore and I am pretty sure that while they may sell a  couple of boards at whatever new venture they choose to pursue, leaving Crailtap entirely probably wasn't the right thing to do.
Who knows though? I could be completely wrong... I have been before.

 

Supposedly Crailtap owed a lot of their riders back pay and assured them when the Altamont deal went through they'd all be taken care of.  Koston and Mariano are supposed to be part owners of Fourstar, kind of like Rudy and Mariano were supposed to be for Royal.  Although I have no fucking clue who makes Royal their preferred truck to ride, but to each their own.  Deal goes through, no back pay paid.  Mariano goes in tells them I want to quit Lakai to ride for Nike, obviously for the money, still want to ride for Girl, Fourstar, and Royal.  Crailtap tells him you quit one you quit them all.  Yeah he did it for money, I never said he didn't.  Im sure Nike offered him way fucking more than Lakai could pay.  Based off what's been put out lately Kostons supposed reason for getting a lawyer was for money owed to him, and that's when the "short changing" came out.  As far as the rest of the team, and them getting paid, the back payment to them probably wouldn't have been as much as a supposed co owner in a brand. Bird and Johnston also dipped from them after the Altamont deal went through which seemed strange, but let's just chalk that up to them going for the big shoe cash.  This is just what I heard lately and everyone knows Crailtap has been in financial trouble for a while now.  Maybe someday they'll shed light on it all, or maybe not.  Who knows maybe it was all started over a supposed wheel invoice discrepancy like what got the ball rolling to start Girl.  
[/quote]

.......

I think you're really over thinking this. Guy's greedy and Koston's just a tool.

[MexicanSpaniard]

Expand Quote

You need to think, if this is true, how did they then manage to keep the rest of the team, which is no small team of no names by any means, on apparently what seems to be good terms? Are the rest of the riders all still happy to stay and get fucked over while Howard and Carroll become multi squazzilionaires?
I have come up watching skating for the past 30 years and seen lots of changes. Howard and Carroll are the good guys in my opinion , even if they use shitty chinese wood at the moment.
Its also my opinion that Kookston got in Marianos ear, turning him to the dark side and I don't just mean Nike.
Koston and Mariano are two of my favourite skaters, but times have changed. They aren't the same skaters anymore and I am pretty sure that while they may sell a  couple of boards at whatever new venture they choose to pursue, leaving Crailtap entirely probably wasn't the right thing to do.
Who knows though? I could be completely wrong... I have been before.

 

[close]

Supposedly Crailtap owed a lot of their riders back pay and assured them when the Altamont deal went through they'd all be taken care of.  Koston and Mariano are supposed to be part owners of Fourstar, kind of like Rudy and Mariano were supposed to be for Royal.  Although I have no fucking clue who makes Royal their preferred truck to ride, but to each their own.  Deal goes through, no back pay paid.  Mariano goes in tells them I want to quit Lakai to ride for Nike, obviously for the money, still want to ride for Girl, Fourstar, and Royal.  Crailtap tells him you quit one you quit them all.  Yeah he did it for money, I never said he didn't.  Im sure Nike offered him way fucking more than Lakai could pay.  Based off what's been put out lately Kostons supposed reason for getting a lawyer was for money owed to him, and that's when the "short changing" came out.  As far as the rest of the team, and them getting paid, the back payment to them probably wouldn't have been as much as a supposed co owner in a brand. Bird and Johnston also dipped from them after the Altamont deal went through which seemed strange, but let's just chalk that up to them going for the big shoe cash.  This is just what I heard lately and everyone knows Crailtap has been in financial trouble for a while now.  Maybe someday they'll shed light on it all, or maybe not.  Who knows maybe it was all started over a supposed wheel invoice discrepancy like what got the ball rolling to start Girl.  

.......

I think you're really over thinking this. Guy's greedy and Koston's just a tool.
[/quote]
 are you saying there's a couple of douches on nike?

[Paul Cicero]

Expand Quote

Expand Quote

You need to think, if this is true, how did they then manage to keep the rest of the team, which is no small team of no names by any means, on apparently what seems to be good terms? Are the rest of the riders all still happy to stay and get fucked over while Howard and Carroll become multi squazzilionaires?
I have come up watching skating for the past 30 years and seen lots of changes. Howard and Carroll are the good guys in my opinion , even if they use shitty chinese wood at the moment.
Its also my opinion that Kookston got in Marianos ear, turning him to the dark side and I don't just mean Nike.
Koston and Mariano are two of my favourite skaters, but times have changed. They aren't the same skaters anymore and I am pretty sure that while they may sell a � couple of boards at whatever new venture they choose to pursue, leaving Crailtap entirely probably wasn't the right thing to do.
Who knows though? I could be completely wrong... I have been before.

 

[close]

Supposedly Crailtap owed a lot of their riders back pay and assured them when the Altamont deal went through they'd all be taken care of. � Koston and Mariano are supposed to be part owners of Fourstar, kind of like Rudy and Mariano were supposed to be for Royal. � Although I have no fucking clue who makes Royal their preferred truck to ride, but to each their own. � Deal goes through, no back pay paid. � Mariano goes in tells them I want to quit Lakai to ride for Nike, obviously for the money, still want to ride for Girl, Fourstar, and Royal. � Crailtap tells him you quit one you quit them all. � Yeah he did it for money, I never said he didn't. � Im sure Nike offered him way fucking more than Lakai could pay. � Based off what's been put out lately Kostons supposed reason for getting a lawyer was for money owed to him, and that's when the "short changing" came out. � As far as the rest of the team, and them getting paid, the back payment to them probably wouldn't have been as much as a supposed co owner in a brand. Bird and Johnston also dipped from them after the Altamont deal went through which seemed strange, but let's just chalk that up to them going for the big shoe cash. � This is just what I heard lately and everyone knows Crailtap has been in financial trouble for a while now. � Maybe someday they'll shed light on it all, or maybe not. � Who knows maybe it was all started over a supposed wheel invoice discrepancy like what got the ball rolling to start Girl. � 

[close]

.......

I think you're really over thinking this. Guy's greedy and Koston's just a tool.

are you saying there's a couple of douches on nike?

[/quote]

More than a few Mr Spaniard. I get guys like Luan, Shane etc, people with no real ties to a brand, but Guy was part of the mold, he really spat in his friends faces by bailing IMO. Again, yeah, he's at the end of his career bla bla bla, even more reason to stay loyal to your mates.

[Plop]

http://theridechannel.com/features/2016/02/eric-koston-interview-2016

Some talk at the end about this whole thing

[pencil]

I just wanted to throw out there about the whole "you quit one you quit them all"

why is biebel still on when he quit lakai for diamond?

[Cosme]

It was a big con to get rid of both of them.

[busted-knee]

I just wanted to throw out there about the whole "you quit one you quit them all"

why is biebel still on when he quit lakai for diamond?

Perhaps they weren't offering Biebel another contract/shoe?

[frontsideindy]

pointing fingers on people is real stupid - nobody know facts.
if you run a company you need to make decisions, every decision has a consequence.
I am pretty sure there is a reason for the breakup, and its part of the contract not
to talk about.

If i have a contract with a representative, and he have also a contract with a smaler and different company
i have no problem with it- but if he start a relationship with a company like me - that would to
be against my interest so i woud not allow to do that.
So if i had a passage in my contract with my agents/ representatives to have a voice for
new contracts -  Nike will have that to.
We know Howard / Carroll didn't ask the Team (Mariano / Koston) about the Altamonte deal. (the don't need to!)
But i am pretty sure Nike was not happy about the change at Kostons Board Sponsor - because now it was
not a small company anymore - now there is an cooperate Investor with also investment in Lakai and Huf Shoes.
behind Crailtap.

But Koston wound never point a finger on his main sponsor (Nike) that they told him to break up with Girl.
(that would be pretty negativ communication, and Koston is paid for positive marketing.)
And Howard and Carroll in my point of view know that if they got a big investor in the boat they can't
keep Koston because of his contract with Nike. But they need the cash and don't give a fuck.

Mariano and his case of friendship and loyalty.
If you help a friend who have a big drug and lifestyle problem - you do it because you love that person,
not because you except getting back loyality and promotion for your company for the rest of you live.

They help Mariano out of the dark, and i am sure Mariano was thankful for that.
After he was back in business both parties have earned good money together.

But if you have a friend who works for your small company since years, have done a proper job all the time -
and at the end of his carrier he got a pretty good retirement offer from a major company  - i would
be happy for my friend.

About Nike - they have such a big team right now - the first years in skateboarding the look for the underground stars,
then they start to get the big names, next step ist to be more selective and get the big names 100% from
head to toe on nike. How much is 4Star oder AJC paying to Nyjah or Mariano for a clothing deal?
i don't know - i just know its nothing for a exclusive deal for Nike - if they got a new rider today they
want to have full control of product placement - not only the shoe and the sticker - also shirt/jacket whole fucking apparel.

someone ask in a another thread what we will remember in Skateboarding 2015 - at least Nike change skateboarding
business side -its not needed to have a board sponsor anymore - its all about the shoe deal - if you are on nike you
can handprint your boards out of your garage and sell it over the internet - Koston and Mariano should do that
rent a garage and and met once a week to spray /scratch / fingerprint/ sign or what ever boards and sell them
directly via webshop - they would do more cash then with any board sponsor today.
And nike bring skateboarding to olympics and get hours of cheap endorsed marketing.
till the first olympics any skateboarder with a chance on a podium is on nike.

[Robert Baratheon]

Just what I'd heard about the situation lately, he's a social media kook, but apparently Koston got a lawyer who went through Crailtaps books and found out Howard and Carroll were still getting theirs while shorting everyone else.  Just the latest rumor on the situation which has been going around. 

When Koston left Lakai, this was part of the reason. But it was Podium (DVS) that was the guilty party, not Crailtap.

Unless something new has happened...

[Eric ricks]

Koston tried to fuck carrolls lady, but he was fully flaccid.

It lead to a fistfist in which koston demanded carrolls wallet, but carroll quickly disabled him with multiple scarf knots.

Guy felt for koston since he boinked another mans wife and that man killed himself.

Crailtap is fine, but danny way has a brick for vov

[unsuperfilmer]

Grammatical and spelling errors aside frontsideindy has a good point

[frontsideindy]

Grammatical and spelling errors aside frontsideindy has a good point

thank you - this happens if you learn english through NWA records and Thrasher magazine.

[asakusa75]

Koston tried to fuck carrolls lady, but he was fully flaccid.

It lead to a fistfist in which koston demanded carrolls wallet, but carroll quickly disabled him with multiple scarf knots.

Guy felt for koston since he boinked another mans wife and that man killed himself.

Crailtap is fine, but danny way has a brick for vov

Second post I read today, Eric Ricks coming out swinging. Jesus fucking christ. I need another coffee before I get into shit like this...

[frontsideindy]

Expand Quote

Koston tried to fuck carrolls lady, but he was fully flaccid.

It lead to a fistfist in which koston demanded carrolls wallet, but carroll quickly disabled him with multiple scarf knots.

Guy felt for koston since he boinked another mans wife and that man killed himself.

Crailtap is fine, but danny way has a brick for vov

[close]

Second post I read today, Eric Ricks coming out swinging. Jesus fucking christ. I need another coffee before I get into shit like this...

Ohhh the Justin Pierce rumor again - for sure if a drughead died because of his own suicide in a hotel room in vegas,
the guilty party is his wife and another drug head.

because of people like you to be a judge should be a profession.

[Dad you're embarrassing me]

pointing fingers on people is real stupid - nobody know facts.
if you run a company you need to make decisions, every decision has a consequence.
I am pretty sure there is a reason for the breakup, and its part of the contract not
to talk about.

If i have a contract with a representative, and he have also a contract with a smaler and different company
i have no problem with it- but if he start a relationship with a company like me - that would to
be against my interest so i woud not allow to do that.
So if i had a passage in my contract with my agents/ representatives to have a voice for
new contracts -  Nike will have that to.
We know Howard / Carroll didn't ask the Team (Mariano / Koston) about the Altamonte deal. (the don't need to!)
But i am pretty sure Nike was not happy about the change at Kostons Board Sponsor - because now it was
not a small company anymore - now there is an cooperate Investor with also investment in Lakai and Huf Shoes.
behind Crailtap.

But Koston wound never point a finger on his main sponsor (Nike) that they told him to break up with Girl.
(that would be pretty negativ communication, and Koston is paid for positive marketing.)
And Howard and Carroll in my point of view know that if they got a big investor in the boat they can't
keep Koston because of his contract with Nike. But they need the cash and don't give a fuck.

Mariano and his case of friendship and loyalty.
If you help a friend who have a big drug and lifestyle problem - you do it because you love that person,
not because you except getting back loyality and promotion for your company for the rest of you live.

They help Mariano out of the dark, and i am sure Mariano was thankful for that.
After he was back in business both parties have earned good money together.

But if you have a friend who works for your small company since years, have done a proper job all the time -
and at the end of his carrier he got a pretty good retirement offer from a major company  - i would
be happy for my friend.

About Nike - they have such a big team right now - the first years in skateboarding the look for the underground stars,
then they start to get the big names, next step ist to be more selective and get the big names 100% from
head to toe on nike. How much is 4Star oder AJC paying to Nyjah or Mariano for a clothing deal?
i don't know - i just know its nothing for a exclusive deal for Nike - if they got a new rider today they
want to have full control of product placement - not only the shoe and the sticker - also shirt/jacket whole fucking apparel.

someone ask in a another thread what we will remember in Skateboarding 2015 - at least Nike change skateboarding
business side -its not needed to have a board sponsor anymore - its all about the shoe deal - if you are on nike you
can handprint your boards out of your garage and sell it over the internet - Koston and Mariano should do that
rent a garage and and met once a week to spray /scratch / fingerprint/ sign or what ever boards and sell them
directly via webshop - they would do more cash then with any board sponsor today.
And nike bring skateboarding to olympics and get hours of cheap endorsed marketing.
till the first olympics any skateboarder with a chance on a podium is on nike.

That's a whole lotta fingers getting pointed

[frontsideindy]

Expand Quote

pointing fingers on people is real stupid - nobody know facts.
if you run a company you need to make decisions, every decision has a consequence.
I am pretty sure there is a reason for the breakup, and its part of the contract not
to talk about.

If i have a contract with a representative, and he have also a contract with a smaler and different company
i have no problem with it- but if he start a relationship with a company like me - that would to
be against my interest so i woud not allow to do that.
So if i had a passage in my contract with my agents/ representatives to have a voice for
new contracts -  Nike will have that to.
We know Howard / Carroll didn't ask the Team (Mariano / Koston) about the Altamonte deal. (the don't need to!)
But i am pretty sure Nike was not happy about the change at Kostons Board Sponsor - because now it was
not a small company anymore - now there is an cooperate Investor with also investment in Lakai and Huf Shoes.
behind Crailtap.

But Koston wound never point a finger on his main sponsor (Nike) that they told him to break up with Girl.
(that would be pretty negativ communication, and Koston is paid for positive marketing.)
And Howard and Carroll in my point of view know that if they got a big investor in the boat they can't
keep Koston because of his contract with Nike. But they need the cash and don't give a fuck.

Mariano and his case of friendship and loyalty.
If you help a friend who have a big drug and lifestyle problem - you do it because you love that person,
not because you except getting back loyality and promotion for your company for the rest of you live.

They help Mariano out of the dark, and i am sure Mariano was thankful for that.
After he was back in business both parties have earned good money together.

But if you have a friend who works for your small company since years, have done a proper job all the time -
and at the end of his carrier he got a pretty good retirement offer from a major company  - i would
be happy for my friend.

About Nike - they have such a big team right now - the first years in skateboarding the look for the underground stars,
then they start to get the big names, next step ist to be more selective and get the big names 100% from
head to toe on nike. How much is 4Star oder AJC paying to Nyjah or Mariano for a clothing deal?
i don't know - i just know its nothing for a exclusive deal for Nike - if they got a new rider today they
want to have full control of product placement - not only the shoe and the sticker - also shirt/jacket whole fucking apparel.

someone ask in a another thread what we will remember in Skateboarding 2015 - at least Nike change skateboarding
business side -its not needed to have a board sponsor anymore - its all about the shoe deal - if you are on nike you
can handprint your boards out of your garage and sell it over the internet - Koston and Mariano should do that
rent a garage and and met once a week to spray /scratch / fingerprint/ sign or what ever boards and sell them
directly via webshop - they would do more cash then with any board sponsor today.
And nike bring skateboarding to olympics and get hours of cheap endorsed marketing.
till the first olympics any skateboarder with a chance on a podium is on nike.

[close]

That's a whole lotta fingers getting pointed

if you got it like that -  i am sorry - i was not clear enough.

i dont know if you read all the text before there where complains about the moral aspect and giving the guilt to all of them Mariano,
Koston, Howard and Carroll.

When Mariano comes in to tell Rick and Mike he realizes he only has a limited number of years left, and he wants to leave Lakai for Nike, plus they owe him back royalties/pay , however he still wants to ride for you, Girl, and Royal, and they tell him if he leaves one he leaves them all, tell Rick and Mike they fucked up and have become the reason they supposedly left Rocco all those years ago.

They owe him royalties? Where did you get that from? Guy left Rick and Mike for money, and money only. It's been beat to death, but IMO he spat in their faces by bailing on the very people that had his back when he was ghost from skating... Kook away.

Suppose if I hadn't been getting paid at my job, and found out the owners had been paying themselves their "corporate" salaries in addition to their board sales while claiming they couldn't pay anyone what they owed them I'd leave for a steady check as well.

I have come up watching skating for the past 30 years and seen lots of changes. Howard and Carroll are the good guys in my opinion , even if they use shitty chinese wood at the moment.
Its also my opinion that Kookston got in Marianos ear, turning him to the dark side and I don't just mean Nike.

And yes, I am aware that he's at the back end of his career bla bla, IMO it's even more reason to stay loyal to the people that have had your back since day one.

i just try to explain in my general thinking of business that for that break up there is no moral error needed, all this people are in relationships with major companys - having contracts with mayor company means you have also accepted parts of the contract which cut, restrict and control you.
so maybe they had no other possibility then to go separate ways.

i had a really good contract with a company - but after i break up that job i was blocked to work for 2 years in the same industry sector - so i need to change the industry sector for my next job. A lot of my old colleagues didn't understand my behavior - but i was not allowed to speak freely about that paragraph in the contract. (because they also pay me for that.)

on the other side i had really good relationships with agents, but i need to stop the cooperation because the structure we work together with had changed. it was not my fault - it was not the fault of my agent. The owner of my company changed - and the owner of one of his brands changed - so it was not possible to keep up the business relations ship - but if i am in town - we still meet each other - talk about the good time we had- and keep the job job and have a beer together. 

Hopefully its for Koston, Mariano, Howard and Carroll the same. No drama - just the fucking side of business in Skating.
And as a pro you are not necessarily paid for your skating - your are only paid for endorsed marketing.
same get it down by throwing themselves down the house, other people dot it just with personality.

[Robert Baratheon]

Is there anything to the alleged owed back pay stuff? (from Crailtap, not Podium)

I don't think there is anything wrong with the 4 owners taking a higher pay. They took the risk in 93. But if they aren't paying payroll/royatlies, then that could lead to animosity. Who knows? I still think people are confusing the Lakai/Podium issues with Crailtap.

As far as Fourstar and Royal are concerned. Maybe they were just the brand managers with extra sales incentive bonuses tied in. But no sellable shares. I thought that Koston had dropped Fourstar due to Nike long before he left Girl.

In the end it's hard to do business with friends. All good things come to an end eventually