The Indy Thread

[WideFeet]

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https://nhsskatedirect.com/products/stage-4-polished-skateboard-trucks-independent


Stage 4s are made with all modern materials and manufacturing processes - making them more durable and longer lasting than the originals or any imitation.

Never break, never bend.

[close]

Shots fired.

[close]

Oh so the inverted grind king pin didn't work out so now Indys ripping off Ace after they became one of the bigboys in the truck game.

Maybe they should have let Joey Tershay create a truck 15 years ago instead of playing catch-up.

Removing that Indy cross is admitting it was always racist

What a absolute joke of a company.

**In before ACE IS JUST A STAGE 5 INDY**

The new Louie Lopez truck come with an IKP, so I think are doing ok.

Also, the ACE truck is an Indy Stage 3, not Stage 5

[Mbrimson88]

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https://imgur.com/a/qIuisE5

[close]

Same thing happened to mine too. On 2 trucks.
I got a free TI pair for the first axle snap after 1 month, and another pair of forged hollows for the second TI snap after 6 months..
So now i have a pair of TI's and a pair of hollows laying arround. The shop just called their distribution and they send me new ones relatively fast..

So there is a known issue with a batch, or more than one batch of Ti axle Indy trucks from after 2020 manufacturing issues through to whenever and is still showing up in stock now (which may have been from back then, but who knows), with all of the broken ones being in that exact same situation, with every one I have seen or people who had them like that had a warranty claim and were provided with another replacement set of trucks, as almost all of them have still looked near new in terms of wear.

Sent you a message anyway.


Edit:

"Guaranteed for life" my ass. My axle broke in half and I emailed NHS and all they did was link me to their "warranty" website where it says skate gear is only under warranty for 120 days.

The "life" of a skateboard product is not to be confused with the "life" of a human or living thing, as the warranty for some things is only 30 days, or until a product is worn and well used.

That said, most places are pretty cool with something as long as there is not excessive wear, but for a company that seems to have had a lot of product faults and is bleeding funds on what could be said is the most expensive product in their range, I can see how they are becoming tighter on things like that.  In no way does that excuse them from the fact that your trucks look barely used, so should be covered under warranty, within a reasonable timeframe, not years and years down the track, but I know the shop being the first point of call could have helped with that and then dealt with NHS directly about the problem.

[Xen]

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https://nhsskatedirect.com/products/stage-4-polished-skateboard-trucks-independent


Stage 4s are made with all modern materials and manufacturing processes - making them more durable and longer lasting than the originals or any imitation.

Never break, never bend.

[close]

Shots fired.

[close]

Oh so the inverted grind king pin didn't work out so now Indys ripping off Ace after they became one of the bigboys in the truck game.

Maybe they should have let Joey Tershay create a truck 15 years ago instead of playing catch-up.

Removing that Indy cross is admitting it was always racist

What a absolute joke of a company.

**In before ACE IS JUST A STAGE 5 INDY**

[close]

The new Louie Lopez truck come with an IKP, so I think are doing ok.

Also, the ACE truck is an Indy Stage 3, not Stage 5

The exodus happened because of moving manufacturing to China (and who knows what else), but it was not due to the removal of the cross.

Do you still wear your fuck the rest shirts and sip that bud out of a built to grind koozie? How butt hurt can you be?

[yourbreakfsat]

How on earth is Indy reissuing their own design ripping off or stealing from Ace?

So much anger over something you aren't required to buy.

[elegant_fox]

The thing that keeps me from jumping to Ace is the 52-53mm wheel clearance compared to the Indy standard of 56mm. I run 56mm+ usually, so it's a deal breaker. Maybe it's not as pronounced a difference as it seems on paper, but it does keep me from picking up a set on a whim.

[BL0B]

How on earth is Indy reissuing their own design ripping off or stealing from Ace?

So much anger over something you aren't required to buy.

he's from the indy insta comment sections, forgive him.

[Lou Strux]

The thing that keeps me from jumping to Ace is the 52-53mm wheel clearance compared to the Indy standard of 56mm. I run 56mm+ usually, so it's a deal breaker. Maybe it's not as pronounced a difference as it seems on paper, but it does keep me from picking up a set on a whim.

I run 56mm on my Ace w/ minimal wheelbite. No threads showing, stock bushings, about 165 lbs, no riser pads.
The sweep on Ace is shalllower, (more in towards the center, rather than up towards the deck.) I think this accounts for some of the extra clearance.

[IpathCats]

How on earth is Indy reissuing their own design ripping off or stealing from Ace?

So much anger over something you aren't required to buy.

Ding ding ding, we have a winner

[manysnakes]

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https://nhsskatedirect.com/products/stage-4-polished-skateboard-trucks-independent


Stage 4s are made with all modern materials and manufacturing processes - making them more durable and longer lasting than the originals or any imitation.

Never break, never bend.

[close]

Shots fired.

[close]

Oh so the inverted grind king pin didn't work out so now Indys ripping off Ace after they became one of the bigboys in the truck game.

Maybe they should have let Joey Tershay create a truck 15 years ago instead of playing catch-up.

Removing that Indy cross is admitting it was always racist

What a absolute joke of a company.

**In before ACE IS JUST A STAGE 5 INDY**

[close]

lol, that indy bringing a truck back into rotation got your butt all hurt like that, sorry dude.

[close]

Who are these for?

I actually do wonder this. I think Indy might be misunderstanding the success of Ace as pent up demand for their old trucks instead of just a general lack of interest in Independent.

[Xen]

ACE offered a solution to something that was missing. Sure, it was based of Stage III indys...because it turned better than stage X/XI or whatever was the stage when ACE came out.

I'm all for a faster turning Indy but not with shitass grind clearance, same old heft, and seemingly 'incompatible' with other indy products: Bushings/Plates); I'm not biting as they are not offering me anything I can't get from ACE...not if they were offering a hollow option, maybe.

[BL0B]

i'm totally trying them, but i'll try just about anything, once.

[Roisto]

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The thing that keeps me from jumping to Ace is the 52-53mm wheel clearance compared to the Indy standard of 56mm. I run 56mm+ usually, so it's a deal breaker. Maybe it's not as pronounced a difference as it seems on paper, but it does keep me from picking up a set on a whim.

[close]

I run 56mm on my Ace w/ minimal wheelbite. No threads showing, stock bushings, about 165 lbs, no riser pads.
The sweep on Ace is shalllower, (more in towards the center, rather than up towards the deck.) I think this accounts for some of the extra clearance.

Exactly. Indys wheelbite sooner & easier than Aces do despite Aces being lower.

[IpathCats]

ACE offered a solution to something that was missing. Sure, it was based of Stage III indys...because it turned better than stage X/XI or whatever was the stage when ACE came out.

I'm all for a faster turning Indy but not with shitass grind clearance, same old heft, and seemingly 'incompatible' with other indy products: Bushings/Plates); I'm not biting as they are not offering me anything I can't get from ACE...not if they were offering a hollow option, maybe.

You know that shit will come out during the holidays.

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https://nhsskatedirect.com/products/stage-4-polished-skateboard-trucks-independent


Stage 4s are made with all modern materials and manufacturing processes - making them more durable and longer lasting than the originals or any imitation.

Never break, never bend.

[close]

Shots fired.

[close]

Oh so the inverted grind king pin didn't work out so now Indys ripping off Ace after they became one of the bigboys in the truck game.

Maybe they should have let Joey Tershay create a truck 15 years ago instead of playing catch-up.

Removing that Indy cross is admitting it was always racist

What a absolute joke of a company.

**In before ACE IS JUST A STAGE 5 INDY**

[close]

lol, that indy bringing a truck back into rotation got your butt all hurt like that, sorry dude.

[close]

Who are these for?

[close]

I actually do wonder this. I think Indy might be misunderstanding the success of Ace as pent up demand for their old trucks instead of just a general lack of interest in Independent.

Sure there are some people that will never ride indys again, but there are just as many people (probably way more honestly) that never stopped riding them or would consider riding them now that theyve abandoned the cross logo.

And just judging by people's tendencies on the shoes and gear side of SLAP, I would also guss that many people will just try them out of curiosity. Independent is the biggest truck brand after all, and people are interested in their products. I think I would actually be MORE curious to ride these if I had swapped to aces "permanently". Personally I always run aces with risers so 55mm height seems better, and I would be curious to see how similar the aces actually were to old Indys since I never rode them. I started skating around 99-2000

[Amoreone82]

Based on the fact that the new Indy 215s are stage 4s that I've been riding for 10 months now, their bushings are fully compatible with the ACE AF1 bushings and its a good thing. Compared to the ACE, the new stage 4 turns better with less chance of wheelbite due to increased height of indys.
The only thing I don't like about the new indy stage 4 is the too soft bushings and small kinpin clearance, which is generally solved by grinding the top bushing and kingpin down to stage 11 size without noticeble effort to turning abbilities.
My experience said what stage4 hanger is fully compatible with IKP indy baseplate, only reason if its not compatible with old stage 11 baseplates is a shorter kingpin on old plates.

[Sedition]

Exactly. Indys wheelbite sooner & easier than Aces do despite Aces being lower.

This was not my experience with Ace trucks.

[IpathCats]

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Exactly. Indys wheelbite sooner & easier than Aces do despite Aces being lower.

[close]

This was not my experience with Ace trucks.

I think there might be kind of a breakpoint with wheel size where aces actually bite less due to their geo.

aces have a deeper turn, whereas indys will pinch sooner, when considering the full range of articulation.

However, since indys are taller they have more initial room before biting/pinching.


Wheel width and shape is also very important when considering this.

[Sedition]

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Exactly. Indys wheelbite sooner & easier than Aces do despite Aces being lower.

[close]

This was not my experience with Ace trucks.

[close]

I think there might be kind of a breakpoint with wheel size where aces actually bite less due to their geo.

aces have a deeper turn, whereas indys will pinch sooner, when considering the full range of articulation.

However, since indys are taller they have more initial room before biting/pinching.


Wheel width and shape is also very important when considering this.

FWIW: I ride forged (less clearance than standard Indys) and 53mm Classics. Wheel bite was a problem for me with Aces.

[IpathCats]

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Exactly. Indys wheelbite sooner & easier than Aces do despite Aces being lower.

[close]

This was not my experience with Ace trucks.

[close]

I think there might be kind of a breakpoint with wheel size where aces actually bite less due to their geo.

aces have a deeper turn, whereas indys will pinch sooner, when considering the full range of articulation.

However, since indys are taller they have more initial room before biting/pinching.


Wheel width and shape is also very important when considering this.

[close]

FWIW: I ride forged (less clearance than standard Indys) and 53mm Classics. Wheel bite was a problem for me with Aces.

forged is still 1.5mm taller than ACE iirc.

generally speaking, aces just turn more. 2 threads showing on indy is WAY tighter than 2 threads showing on ACE. So that might be a factor too.

[Sedition]

forged is still 1.5mm taller than ACE iirc.

On their web site, Ace now claims their trucks are 53mm tall. For awhile Ace seemed to proudly state that their trucks were 52mm, “which is becoming the industry standard.” Then they quietly went up to 53mm. So, either the 52mm listing was incorrect, or they changed things w/o highlighting it.

They recently also removed the “Yes, Ace trucks are made in China” part from their site’s FAQ section.

[Nacho Maildrop]

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Exactly. Indys wheelbite sooner & easier than Aces do despite Aces being lower.

[close]

This was not my experience with Ace trucks.

[close]

I think there might be kind of a breakpoint with wheel size where aces actually bite less due to their geo.

aces have a deeper turn, whereas indys will pinch sooner, when considering the full range of articulation.

However, since indys are taller they have more initial room before biting/pinching.


Wheel width and shape is also very important when considering this.

[close]

FWIW: I ride forged (less clearance than standard Indys) and 53mm Classics. Wheel bite was a problem for me with Aces.

[close]

forged is still 1.5mm taller than ACE iirc.

generally speaking, aces just turn more. 2 threads showing on indy is WAY tighter than 2 threads showing on ACE. So that might be a factor too.

Aces have a straighter kingpin angle, so when they turn the rotation distance (around the kingpin) before they bite is longer. They also have a taller, harder top bushing than Indy so the return to center has more force. So depending on the circumstances, they can definitely bite less than Indy while still being lower.

Not trying to dispute Sedition, there are a bunch of other factors at play. Ace classics biting less for me might be due to the fact that I am old and uncoordinated, so the lower hight and stronger snap back keeps me balanced more. For someone lighter and skating different terrain, the extra distance of the Indy might be what it takes. IDK.

That being said, the soft AF-1 pivot cups are wheelbite hell for me and I can't ride them.

[Diamond_Dallas_Pudge]

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forged is still 1.5mm taller than ACE iirc.

[close]

On their web site, Ace now claims their trucks are 53mm tall. For awhile Ace seemed to proudly state that their trucks were 52mm, “which is becoming the industry standard.” Then they quietly went up to 53mm. So, either the 52mm listing was incorrect, or they changed things w/o highlighting it.

They recently also removed the “Yes, Ace trucks are made in China” part from their site’s FAQ section.

ACE classics are 52mm tall

ACE AF1 are 53mm tall

It's almost like they are two completely different trucks.

[IpathCats]

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forged is still 1.5mm taller than ACE iirc.

[close]

On their web site, Ace now claims their trucks are 53mm tall. For awhile Ace seemed to proudly state that their trucks were 52mm, “which is becoming the industry standard.” Then they quietly went up to 53mm. So, either the 52mm listing was incorrect, or they changed things w/o highlighting it.

They recently also removed the “Yes, Ace trucks are made in China” part from their site’s FAQ section.

Knowing ACE, it was probably just incorrect lol

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Exactly. Indys wheelbite sooner & easier than Aces do despite Aces being lower.

[close]

This was not my experience with Ace trucks.

[close]

I think there might be kind of a breakpoint with wheel size where aces actually bite less due to their geo.

aces have a deeper turn, whereas indys will pinch sooner, when considering the full range of articulation.

However, since indys are taller they have more initial room before biting/pinching.


Wheel width and shape is also very important when considering this.

[close]

FWIW: I ride forged (less clearance than standard Indys) and 53mm Classics. Wheel bite was a problem for me with Aces.

[close]

forged is still 1.5mm taller than ACE iirc.

generally speaking, aces just turn more. 2 threads showing on indy is WAY tighter than 2 threads showing on ACE. So that might be a factor too.

[close]

Aces have a straighter kingpin angle, so when they turn the rotation distance (around the kingpin) before they bite is longer. They also have a taller, harder top bushing than Indy so the return to center has more force. So depending on the circumstances, they can definitely bite less than Indy while still being lower.

Not trying to dispute Sedition, there are a bunch of other factors at play. Ace classics biting less for me might be due to the fact that I am old and uncoordinated, so the lower hight and stronger snap back keeps me balanced more. For someone lighter and skating different terrain, the extra distance of the Indy might be what it takes. IDK.

That being said, the soft AF-1 pivot cups are wheelbite hell for me and I can't ride them.

great explanation, gnar'd

[Sedition]

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Exactly. Indys wheelbite sooner & easier than Aces do despite Aces being lower.

[close]

This was not my experience with Ace trucks.

[close]

I think there might be kind of a breakpoint with wheel size where aces actually bite less due to their geo.

aces have a deeper turn, whereas indys will pinch sooner, when considering the full range of articulation.

However, since indys are taller they have more initial room before biting/pinching.


Wheel width and shape is also very important when considering this.

[close]

FWIW: I ride forged (less clearance than standard Indys) and 53mm Classics. Wheel bite was a problem for me with Aces.

[close]

forged is still 1.5mm taller than ACE iirc.

generally speaking, aces just turn more. 2 threads showing on indy is WAY tighter than 2 threads showing on ACE. So that might be a factor too.

[close]

Aces have a straighter kingpin angle, so when they turn the rotation distance (around the kingpin) before they bite is longer. They also have a taller, harder top bushing than Indy so the return to center has more force. So depending on the circumstances, they can definitely bite less than Indy while still being lower.

Not trying to dispute Sedition, there are a bunch of other factors at play. Ace classics biting less for me might be due to the fact that I am old and uncoordinated, so the lower hight and stronger snap back keeps me balanced more. For someone lighter and skating different terrain, the extra distance of the Indy might be what it takes. IDK.

That being said, the soft AF-1 pivot cups are wheelbite hell for me and I can't ride them.

AF-1 were what I had wheel bite problems with, too.

[backinaction]

AF-1 were what I had wheel bite problems with, too.

I have one line at my local park with a front 180 bowl transfer that I've been doing for years - mostly on Indy forged 149/159s.  I had three bad bails on AF1 55s and 54 conicals where I had wheelbite on my tail heel side wheel that pitched me back/head first to the bottom.  I'm 50 and don't feel like experimenting to find out how to not get the wheelbite on the AF1s.  I just want to not get hurt.    I have a setup with forged Thunder 149s and 54mm V1 Bones that I have been skating lately and have zero issues with them. 

[Nacho Maildrop]

Yeah, at 200lbs those AF-1 pivot cups are just too soft. Anyway, didn't mean to derail. Ace low bushings (the old ones, haven't tried the AF low) are amazing in Indys.

[Lou Strux]

Wondering why Indy went with the sizing they chose for the “new” Stage 4s. The OG 4s came in 159, 169 & 215.
Obvs, those sizes are on the larger end of the contemporary truck width spectrum, but why not make 139s & 149s instead of the in-between 136 & 146 sizes?
Were these in development so far back that they were trying to play catch-up w/ Ace by releasing similar sizes to the Ace Classic dims, or… ?
Also, can’t help but thinking the Stage 4 is a curious choice of a truck to release. IIRC, the Ace geometry is based of a Stage 3, so why not jump on THAT train, unless they’re trying to offer the final, most refined version of their “single wing” hanger design?
Further, the Stage 4 was a fairly short lived design, with an original release date (according to Indy) of March, ‘86. It was soon eclipsed by the “Hollow Body” Stage 5, which was released (again, according to Indy) in October of that same year (1986).
Why come they choose such a short lived design to highlight?
Or… maybe it’s precisely BECAUSE they were so short lived that they selected that model to reissue?
Whole lotta questions here, I know.
Thought I’d give y’all something to mull over today while at you toil away at work.

[Frank and Fred]

I've had the same thoughts Lou. I would assume a Stage 3 or 5 would be the way to go. The Hollow Body Stage 5s were so sick when they came out. Who knows perhaps b/c 4s were the last before the hollow body?

I personally like some of the sizing. Its cool the axles are in-between the stage 11 sizes (on most). I like that the 149 is essentially split into two trucks an 8 3/8" and 8 5'8", but again you're right I don't think Stage 4s were sized that way.

Also, I wish they were made at Ermico. And I pray they won't have classic axle slip as well as classic geo.

[Sedition]

Wondering why Indy went with the sizing they chose for the “new” Stage 4s. The OG 4s came in 159, 169 & 215.
Obvs, those sizes are on the larger end of the contemporary truck width spectrum, but why not make 139s & 149s instead of the in-between 136 & 146 sizes?
Were these in development so far back that they were trying to play catch-up w/ Ace by releasing similar sizes to the Ace Classic dims, or… ?
Also, can’t help but thinking the Stage 4 is a curious choice of a truck to release. IIRC, the Ace geometry is based of a Stage 3, so why not jump on THAT train, unless they’re trying to offer the final, most refined version of their “single wing” hanger design?
Further, the Stage 4 was a fairly short lived design, with an original release date (according to Indy) of March, ‘86. It was soon eclipsed by the “Hollow Body” Stage 5, which was released (again, according to Indy) in October of that same year (1986).
Why come they choose such a short lived design to highlight?
Or… maybe it’s precisely BECAUSE they were so short lived that they selected that model to reissue?
Whole lotta questions here, I know.
Thought I’d give y’all something to mull over today while at you toil away at work.

A lot of really valid questions here. But playing catch-up with Ace…the company that took 10+ years to figure out standard sizes for trucks, that rest of the world figured out in the Bronze Age?

[Xen]

Based on the fact that the new Indy 215s are stage 4s that I've been riding for 10 months now, their bushings are fully compatible with the ACE AF1 bushings and its a good thing. Compared to the ACE, the new stage 4 turns better with less chance of wheelbite due to increased height of indys.

But are they?

Listed under/as Stage XI, yet: Independent Trucks 215s feature a retro Stage IV style single wing hanger design

https://nhsskatedirect.com/products/stage-11-215-polished-skateboard-trucks-independent?variant=40118119596189

I don't even think NHS knows anymore. Like the mids, they're just franken'trucking us.

[backinaction]

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Based on the fact that the new Indy 215s are stage 4s that I've been riding for 10 months now, their bushings are fully compatible with the ACE AF1 bushings and its a good thing. Compared to the ACE, the new stage 4 turns better with less chance of wheelbite due to increased height of indys.

[close]

But are they?

Listed under/as Stage XI, yet: Independent Trucks 215s feature a retro Stage IV style single wing hanger design

https://nhsskatedirect.com/products/stage-11-215-polished-skateboard-trucks-independent?variant=40118119596189

I don't even think NHS knows anymore. Like the mids, they're just franken'trucking us.

What I heard (and it may be bullshit) is that the 215 molds broke when they moved to China and they had to re-tool.   At that time they modified them somewhat to the Stage XI geometry.  I don't skate 215s and don't pay that much attention to them, so I have no idea if this is true.