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Skateboarding => USELESS WOODEN TOY BANTER => Topic started by: JB77 on October 20, 2020, 12:18:31 PM
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Deck prices have remained more or less unaffected by inflation over the last 20 years. So, are they currently underpriced? Or, were they overpriced 20 years ago?
What’s the most you’d be willing to pay for a basic, 7-ply maple deck? $60? $65? $70?
Here’s a page out of the 1999 1997 CCS catalogue...
EDIT: My mistake. This is from the 1997 catalogue. Sorry!
(https://i.postimg.cc/ydW7V8V7/B7-EAEBDD-E5-D0-42-DE-8222-FA60-A7-ECBB1-E.jpg)
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i had that Josh Beagle yuck face. got it on CCS and had it shipped to the hotel my family was staying at on vacation in Huntington Beach. This was 1997 though so this date might be wrong, or they kept it in the line for awhile. I only remember because UPS was on strike.
But back to the topic at hand, honestly i think boards are underpriced now leaving less margins overal
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They cost that much back in 1986 too.
My question is on hoodies. How do they go from like 39.99 and being thicc, to being thin t-shirts and around 65.99
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Decks are underpriced but I’m not complaining
Soft goods from skate brands are wayyyy overpriced
Ask any shop owner what makes them any money at all and they will confirm this
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I don't think they're underpriced per se. Back in the 80s you had boards made in America and silkscreened by hand. Now they're mass produced in Mexico or China, and graphics are heat transferred. Boards back then were also bigger, and used more material, and you didn't buy one every 2 weeks (more like one every, 3-6 months, or even once a year).
How much do they actually cost to make now vs how much they sell for?
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My core local has already started doing this. Standard 7 ply Real / Anti Hero / Black Label or similar for $60-65 (with grip). Shop decks / Mini Logo for $45.
We also have a Tactics in town that is about $10 cheaper per deck - with better selection.
So, where do you buy? How much is it worth to support the local?
and you didn't buy one every 2 weeks (more like one every, 3-6 months, or even once a year).
Around 91-92 I was buying one every 4-6 weeks in the skate season because I would snap them. Boards are better quality now.
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Those decks sizes are beautiful. All the sub 7.75s
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Where I am pro decks/brand decks are 75-90 bucks (CDN), shop decks 50-55 bucks (pretty decent wood too, prefer the shapes as well).
Im getting shop decks from my local 100% of the time. Ive ridden pro decks for the first time in a decade this year cuz COVID fucked with the shop deck manufacturing.
I struggle to see why I should spend the same amount of money on shoes as I do a deck, shoes feel harder to make with more expensive materials but maybe im ignorant
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that Alien Workshop Believe Slick deck was my first board, but I believe it was from CCS in like 96 or 97
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Out of curiosity - I looked up what some other online shops are charging these days. Looks like Real boards are for $64 at CCS, making them $1 cheaper at my local:
https://shop.ccs.com/skateboards/skateboard-decks/real
$66 for DogTown that are $60 at my local.
https://shop.ccs.com/skateboards/skateboard-decks/dogtown
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Where I am pro decks/brand decks are 75-90 bucks (CDN), shop decks 50-55 bucks (pretty decent wood too, prefer the shapes as well).
Im getting shop decks from my local 100% of the time. Ive ridden pro decks for the first time in a decade this year cuz COVID fucked with the shop deck manufacturing.
I struggle to see why I should spend the same amount of money on shoes as I do a deck, shoes feel harder to make with more expensive materials but maybe im ignorant
Feel like they went from $80-85 to $90-100 at most Canadian shops this spring, and I'm fine with it. I can afford the extra few bucks, and with so many new people taking up skating during COVID; this was probably the right time to reset the price scale a little. Someone who never walked into a skate shop before May doesn't know or care that a deck is $10 more than it used to be, and still considers skating a pretty cheap hobby compared to most others (i.e. video games, golf, cycling, etc.). Boards still flew off the shelves all summer, and I'm glad the shops got to take in some extra money from it.
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i had that Josh Beagle yuck face. got it on CCS and had it shipped to the hotel my family was staying at on vacation in Huntington Beach. This was 1997 though so this date might be wrong, or they kept it in the line for awhile. I only remember because UPS was on strike.
But back to the topic at hand, honestly i think boards are underpriced now leaving less margins overal
You’re totally right, this is from 1997, not ‘99. My mistake. Original post edited. Thanks!
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Thanks for posting that era and that Workshop page, those we the days.
My nostalgia sense is tingling.
I have no problem with them following inflation. If its a brand I back, I don't mind paying $80 with grip.
As we know the margins are pretty small on hardgoods generally speaking.
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board prices have been climbing for years.
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Have you seen what Powell decks are going for on their website? They are $80-$93. I get they are the Flight Deck or whatever... but for a Powell... that’s a lot to ask.
https://powell-peralta.com/skateboard-decks
Also I wish I could find that Mantis Workshop deck... was my first. Feeling all kind of feels with that.
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Powell decks are pretty good quality, Flight or not. They just aren't as "cool" as they were back in the day.
I'd buy the shit out of their stuff if they did classic graphics on popsicles.
Or if they did the 1991-1993 reissues
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I'd buy the shit out of their stuff if they did classic graphics on popsicles.
They do - they just have shit for stock right now. They make both Ripper and Skull and Sword decks in 8.0, 8.25, 8.5 and I believe 8.75. Different colors each size and season, but they have been in the catalog pretty regularly for years.
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0013/8795/4221/products/YellowGreenSkullSword_500x500.jpg)
Their non-flight stuff is priced inline with everyone else, if not a bit cheaper.
They aren't "cool" these days, but I really like them. I picked a couple last year (8.0 and 8.5) and didn't initially like them because the kicks are so mellow - but skating side by side with other boards I had built up I realized I was landing more tricks on the flatter boards. If someone in town had an 8.5 Powell in stock I would buy it today.
https://powell-peralta.com/powell-peralta-ripper-skateboard-deck-aqua-shape-243-8-25-x-31-95
https://powell-peralta.com/powell-peralta-skull-and-sword-skateboard-deck-turquoise-243-k20-8-25-x-31-95
https://lbskate.com/products/powell-peralta-skull-and-sword-yellow-green-244-k20-8-5-skateboard-deck?variant=36278525001884&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&gclid=CjwKCAjwlbr8BRA0EiwAnt4MTq9aIpiSdZ0HVvhpIlNPsW-9HXKIApKsPnpwFMtQj0B3PRqxq8LkExoCAdsQAvD_BwE
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When I started skating again in 94 (just 6 months off), I got a 7.5 Powell board that was the toughest board I ever had. I've randomly bought them here and there since. Not in a long time though... but boards sadly last me forever now. Frankie Hill did a few reissues (egg shapes!) a few years ago but they were $125 / signed etc. I wanted to skate one of those bad boys
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i just moved to france and decks are like ~55 euro for shop decks, ~65 for euro brands, 75–80 for american brands. i paid 75 for a creature 9” bc there weren’t any wide shop or euro decks.
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I paid $65 for a Polar deck the other day. I'd pay that much for boards from brands that I like.
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I'd buy the shit out of their stuff if they did classic graphics on popsicles.
They do - they just have shit for stock right now. They make both Ripper and Skull and Sword decks in 8.0, 8.25, 8.5 and I believe 8.75. Different colors each size and season, but they have been in the catalog pretty regularly for years.
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0013/8795/4221/products/YellowGreenSkullSword_500x500.jpg)
Their non-flight stuff is priced inline with everyone else, if not a bit cheaper.
They aren't "cool" these days, but I really like them. I picked a couple last year (8.0 and 8.5) and didn't initially like them because the kicks are so mellow - but skating side by side with other boards I had built up I realized I was landing more tricks on the flatter boards. If someone in town had an 8.5 Powell in stock I would buy it today.
https://powell-peralta.com/powell-peralta-ripper-skateboard-deck-aqua-shape-243-8-25-x-31-95
https://powell-peralta.com/powell-peralta-skull-and-sword-skateboard-deck-turquoise-243-k20-8-25-x-31-95
https://lbskate.com/products/powell-peralta-skull-and-sword-yellow-green-244-k20-8-5-skateboard-deck?variant=36278525001884&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&gclid=CjwKCAjwlbr8BRA0EiwAnt4MTq9aIpiSdZ0HVvhpIlNPsW-9HXKIApKsPnpwFMtQj0B3PRqxq8LkExoCAdsQAvD_BwE
Those are sick. They did the classic Kevin Harris Mountie graphic on a popsicle for a while, too.
I love Skate One’s quality control, overall. They’re really consistent. When I was a kid Powell Peralta was king of the mountain, so I’ll always have a soft spot for that company.
Plus, it’s cool that George Powell is still innovating deck technology. I wonder if the margins are better or worse for Flight decks vs traditional maple?
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It’s funny how alien has not changed their graphics but are still considered cool.
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$110+ just for a deck in Australia.
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I'm a cheap ass the only way I'm paying full price for a deck is if its a wall hanger, why pay $70+ for a deck when you can go to skate America and get 3 pro decks for $100?
Also, I dont have a local shop so its online or nothing for me
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Why can’t mark sucui be into economics and not reading?
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Something to consider too is now boards are made in Mexico...I suspect less labour intensive as well.... If there weren't so many companies, the existing ones would sell more boards.....no doubt about it though, margins are thin....
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way too many bullshit Alien boards/graphics for my taste
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Boards are underpriced in the US... But this is benefit of fucking over american workers and sending the board manufacturing to Mexico and China.
They are insanely overpriced in Russia and in comparison to the USA they're overpriced in Canada and Europe.
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$110+ just for a deck in Australia.
And it is only going higher with the low AU dollar compared to the US, some wholesale prices now over $75 just the deck, plus shipping, which is going to be hard to justify.
Those new FA and Hockey decks were AU$159 from OCD shop in the last lot that came out, and all sold out too.
At one point I seem to recall all pro decks were all around $150 but I cannot exactly remember when, 2000 give or take a few years? I was riding lots of blanks and seconds and getting by, but things got pretty costly, then the AU dollar went back above the US dollar and many people were enjoying getting lots for half the prices from US shops.
China made blanks still wholesale for $25 to $30 so retail for AU$50 to AU$60 but often don't last more than a session or two under heavy skating.
I would rather the good quality decks than the cheap quick fix, but that is just me.
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I’d be willing to pay $70 for a pro board with grip
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i dont think boards are over priced. But companies that charge 80$ for a hoodie..
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i dont think boards are over priced. But companies that charge 80$ for a hoodie..
This could be a whole different thread hey?!?
Clothing can often be a different story though to hardgoods. I definitely NEED a good quality deck, trucks, wheels, bearings, even good shoes, but I don't need the branded tshirt or hoodie (or socks, beanie, cap, flannel, spray jacket, etc) of those same hardgood brands.
Gildan or AAA or similar blank shirts are AU$5 or less, then once printed with a big name brand are AU$50 to $60, hoodies can be AU$20 to $30 and then retail for AU$100+ and it would be the same everywhere, but that is where the big name brand can make some money (and the retail shop can also make a lot of money) because people want to wear branded clothing don't they?
That is not to say that I don't have a ton of branded product of everything I mentioned above, being the sucker for nice things as I am, but it is definitely interesting on the NEED versus WANT scale, as well as how much they can push prices up and people will still buy the items regardless.
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Right now decks on Tactics’ website range from about $35 to about $82. That’s an average of $58.50.
Those numbers include everything from shop decks to hand-screened reissues. Of course, stock is limited right now, but I think those numbers would hold up to pre-pandemic times.
$58.50 doesn’t seem unreasonable to me. I usually get waaay more than $60 bucks worth of fun out of a deck.
I think the industry will have to start preparing their customers for rising prices in the future, though. They will eventually need to start using more environmentally sustainable materials and that will, at least initially, cost more.
With the margins in hard goods the way they are, it seems that decks are loss-leaders for the companies to sling t-shirts and socks.
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Those decks sizes are beautiful. All the sub 7.75s
Yessir. Decls should be like 50 a pop imo. But that's why I grew up skating blanks and shop decks. I suck and dont need to scratch up a nice deck skating. I just buy what I want to hang and skate blanks now in my 30's
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I'd pay $65 for a pro board with grip but if they go much above that I'm going back to skating blanks.
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I'm amazed at how many people skate brand/pro boards. Maybe because my local has a quality shop deck but that's all I run and all I have run for years at this point.
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I’ve been paying $65 for baker decks which I think is a little crazy, but that shape and bbs wood can’t be beat so I do it anyway..
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i just moved to france and decks are like ~55 euro for shop decks, ~65 for euro brands, 75–80 for american brands. i paid 75 for a creature 9” bc there weren’t any wide shop or euro decks.
i guess it depends where you landed
prices are slightly lower (recommended prices, prices you ll get in Paris but i know that in the south, shop owners / thiefs usually adds 5€ which is more consistent with your prices,)
45-50€ for shop decks
55-65€ for euro brands
70-75€ for us brands
free griptape
the 5€ COVID inflation on everything is spreading fast though... and prices will globally reach your prices list by the end of the year
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You really can't compare hardgoods to softgoods at all. One is a utility/necessity and the other is a luxury/fashion category.
As far as deck margins, they may not be great, but how much should you expect to pay for a consumable product that lasts on average 1-2 months? Not to mention you could easily ruin a board in a week or less if you're going hard or unlucky. I think that will always keep the price of decks low.
I sell boards and have kept my price at $45 since the beginning (about 5 years). I realize I could prob go up to $50 at least and still make sales. Some argue the smaller brands like mine are taking money out of pros pockets but I do it for the love of skateboarding and my local scene. I want to support the locals that I like and also contribute to the community with DIY spots, events, etc. Anybody that wants to start a board company to get rich is gonna have a bad time.
All that said, I don't think I'd pay more than $65 for a quality pro deck.
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paid 80$ (CDN) for a local garage brand pro model (includes local sales tax and grip).
I probably paid around the same price 25 years ago at a shop, so inflation adjusted, prices gone down I guess...
But with some shop boards being pressed by the same manufactuere of abovbe mentioend garage brand, go for the shop deck I guess - its the same wood.
However, kinda nice to support a local brand, graphics are cool too.
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You really can't compare hardgoods to softgoods at all. One is a utility/necessity and the other is a luxury/fashion category.
As far as deck margins, they may not be great, but how much should you expect to pay for a consumable product that lasts on average 1-2 months? Not to mention you could easily ruin a board in a week or less if you're going hard or unlucky. I think that will always keep the price of decks low.
I sell boards and have kept my price at $45 since the beginning (about 5 years). I realize I could prob go up to $50 at least and still make sales. Some argue the smaller brands like mine are taking money out of pros pockets but I do it for the love of skateboarding and my local scene. I want to support the locals that I like and also contribute to the community with DIY spots, events, etc. Anybody that wants to start a board company to get rich is gonna have a bad time.
All that said, I don't think I'd pay more than $65 for a quality pro deck.
I can’t understand the argument that independent board brands are taking money out of pro’s pockets. Like indy board companies don’t have any right to gain any share of the market or something? Skateboarding has always had a strong DIY ethic and I think skateboard startups are rad.
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When I was a kid and moms bought my boards I had no concept of money. So I can’t speak on before.
As a grown man I feel boards are overpriced but I still support the stores and brands I like.
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paid 80$ (CDN) for a local garage brand pro model (includes local sales tax and grip).
I probably paid around the same price 25 years ago at a shop, so inflation adjusted, prices gone down I guess...
But with some shop boards being pressed by the same manufactuere of abovbe mentioend garage brand, go for the shop deck I guess - its the same wood.
However, kinda nice to support a local brand, graphics are cool too.
Feel like it's often a whole different margin/structure on a 'garage' brand, and I probably wouldn't pay close to full price in most cases. They're not paying a team or any of the associated expenses with that (travel, videos, etc.), it may be coming from a second tier wood shop, and there's no cut going to the shop (if you buy it direct from the brand, as is often the case). I consider that stuff to be part of what I'm paying for when I pay full price for a board at a shop. I'd rather pay $95 and spread that money among an actual skate brand, a professional artist who was paid to make the graphic, a pro skater, an established wood shop, and my local skate shop; versus spend $80 and have it split between a rando Chinese factory and some guy who knows how to order boards.
Mileage may vary on all of that, obviously. If it's a small brand who does support a team, is using a good wood shop, and is selling it at a real skate shop; then I'm all for it - they should be charging as much as the big guys, and I'll pay it. It just feels like all that isn't the case a lot of the time.
Edit for the Americans: I'm talking Canadian dollars in the figures above.
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Had that Bo Turner slick. I thought it was so huge because it was 7.88" instead of 7.75". That was the first board I skated with Venture Lo and pretty much only rode those until 2012.
I can't stand when the industry throws one of their pity parties over people buying blanks, shop decks, or from small companies. Boards (by their very nature) will always have a shitty margin and acting like kids are doing something wrong buy trying to save money is just some manipulative bad-faith bullshit.
That being said, I just paid $70 (after sales tax) for a board the other day. I'm totally fine with paying a premium for a shape I like on good SC or Generator wood. I'll save money elsewhere, getting shoes from Nordstrom rack and all that. That being said, I'm older, financially stable, and skate 95% curbs so I realize I am in the minority.
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Wow, I bought that AWS clone technology two years ago for 30€.
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Can anyone accurately say what the actual cost of manufacturing a deck in China/Mexico and getting it to you local shop is? The argument is kind of pointless until we can determine that.
I dont know too many other sports where the main instrument of that sport is as disposable as skateboarding. Wouldn’t making boards that last longer and out of more sustainable materials hurt the industry as much as cheap blanks and shop boards?
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If it's a small brand who does support a team, is using a good wood shop, and is selling it at a real skate shop; then I'm all for it - they should be charging as much as the big guys, and I'll pay it. It just feels like all that isn't the case a lot of the time.
To clarify, I do support a team, use a good wood shop (mfg in Mexico) and at least 60% of my sales are to the only local Skateshop in OKC. Also I occasionally use profits from our sales to help fund local DIY pours when I can afford it.
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I'm happy with $55 FA/Hockey decks & $2 grip all day. If my local has any FA/Hockey wood in stock, I'll go there and pay extra bc I know it's an investment into skateboarding's longevity in my community.
I've always been intent on buying a pro's deck bc I know the $1-2 will go DIRECTLY to the pro (right?). I presume, if I buy, say, a Toy Machine "monster" deck, I presume that money goes to the company & team in general and helps pay for ads, videos, tours, etc. but...are any of the riders seeing that money as well or ONLY board royalties if I purchase the board with their name on it?
Just curious about that since I'm not in the industry and not sure how exactly the sales made off of team or logo decks get dispersed.
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I'm amazed at how many people skate brand/pro boards. Maybe because my local has a quality shop deck but that's all I run and all I have run for years at this point.
That's a super bummer. I won't take mine for granted at all then.
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id only skate blanks if the blanks were the same boards as fa, habitat and every other good wood using board company , but most of the time those blanks are the same wood as enjoy boards some horrible china shit without any real concave.
might only be the placebo effect, but paying slightly more makes me less paranoid about my setup. its like a small garantie that tells me if i fuck up a trick its probably not my setup but me.
in europe board prices range from shop boards 45 euros / 55 dollars to european brands and some american companys like tom yeto 55 euros - 60 euros / 65 - 70 dollars, dwindle at like 65 euros / 75 dollars but also baker and fa boards for about 75 euros/ 85 dollars.
think it always has been this way, but baker boards have never been this expensive. probably since they moved from blitz.
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For those who matter regarding outside US down here, in Chile, it was pretty much the same thing. Boards had always the same price. For local brands, and by local I mean from within the country, the usual price was 25.000 clp and for US boards like 40.000 clp. On these last 2 years prices went up for local boards for 30.000 clp and US boards starting at 45.000 clp up to 70.000 for FA/Hockey which are the most expensive ones. All those boards come with free shitty generic grip which is pretty much useless so you have to throw in some 5.000 for some classic Mob if you're lucky.
Bare in mind that the minimum wage in here is like 320.000 clp
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Those decks sizes are beautiful. All the sub 7.75s
Yessir. Decls should be like 50 a pop imo. But that's why I grew up skating blanks and shop decks. I suck and dont need to scratch up a nice deck skating. I just buy what I want to hang and skate blanks now in my 30's
Where do you buy your blanks from? I'm currently looking for the best options for purchasing blanks.
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Those decks sizes are beautiful. All the sub 7.75s
can't even imagine what a 7.38 must feel like
funny how so many are 7.88, like you can see the transition slowly as people wanna move away from 7 and 3/4s but don't wanna fully commit to an 8.0 yet.
Mike V's 8.25 dominates today, who woudda guessed it. I started on a 7.6 and at the time it felt like the most normal board in the world, I'm sure now it'd feel tiny.
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boards cost 15-25$ more for shops to buy now in canada. decks were 80$ for the last 22 years. so things had to go up, or shops would close.
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If it's a small brand who does support a team, is using a good wood shop, and is selling it at a real skate shop; then I'm all for it - they should be charging as much as the big guys, and I'll pay it. It just feels like all that isn't the case a lot of the time.
To clarify, I do support a team, use a good wood shop (mfg in Mexico) and at least 60% of my sales are to the only local Skateshop in OKC. Also I occasionally use profits from our sales to help fund local DIY pours when I can afford it.
You seem like you are doing it the right way, which is awesome.
There are many others who think they can make money or have dreams of bigtime by starting their own brand, whether they "do it for the kids" or "no one seemed to be supporting their local scene" or whatever, but have no idea, get cheap wood, have terrible graphics, wonder why no one like shops or legit dudes want their product and then go slinging it to kids or people who don't know any better at local skate parks or where ever they can, which then gives the DIY skate brand a bad name, as well as reducing sales of established board brands and takes money away from the shops, which is in turn hurting the industry. * Not preaching, just telling it how it is.
That is just my observations from 30+ years in and around skate industry, working in shops and helping run events, and most of these new startups are here today then gone tomorrow. I do this for the love of skateboarding, not to make money, but I guess it is different when people need to prove themselves or whatever.
I have had arguments with people about it, but at the end of the day, I will buy and ride what I want to and the next guy can do the same, but as soon as someone starts telling me I should support their local brand, if I don't think it is good, I will say so.
The hardest thing too is if a kid only has limited funds, of course this seems like a great price to get a brand new deck (which for him might last just the same as a pro board at twice the price from the skate shop) and so that is often the market that "Mr DIY new brand" will hit.
That probably sounds like a whole lot of crazy, but the main thing I like is the big established brands rely on high quality product and reputation, so this combined with a good returns policy is the main reason I will always favour them, eg Deluxe brands of wood and the BBS woodshop supplied other pro brands if I cannot get DLX wood in the size and shape I want, which works best for me. It is the shape and the concave I want first and foremost, of which I know I can always get from DLX, and in the event of an issue, warranty and board replacement was completed without a fuss.
Any good brand should be the same way, and any good skate shop should be able to facilitate that too, as well as have somewhere you can stand on a deck before you buy it.
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Can anyone accurately say what the actual cost of manufacturing a deck in China/Mexico and getting it to you local shop is? The argument is kind of pointless until we can determine that.
I dont know too many other sports where the main instrument of that sport is as disposable as skateboarding. Wouldn’t making boards that last longer and out of more sustainable materials hurt the industry as much as cheap blanks and shop boards?
If you work backwards, it might show you approximately how much they can cost, but not exactly because that is one of the secrets of the industry as well.
So you have the retail shop, who would like to make a decent margin (some mark up 100% but most are less) who gets from the wholesale distributor in the country.
The wholesale distributor needs to make margin too, when they get it from the brand company.
The brand company gets the product made to specifications and requirements from the manufacturer or woodshop.
The woodshop is the primary source, who determines the price, so if each board goes up $1 then that could easily be $10 or more at the retail shop end.
Eg woodshop $8 to $10, brand company $16 to $20, wholesale distributor $30 to $40 and then retail shop $60 to $80
The model might have one less step in country, or may even have another step if it goes through another set of hands for a different country too.
Anyone with more correct information, please let me know, as I am happy to be corrected.
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Where I am pro decks/brand decks are 75-90 bucks (CDN), shop decks 50-55 bucks (pretty decent wood too, prefer the shapes as well).
Im getting shop decks from my local 100% of the time. Ive ridden pro decks for the first time in a decade this year cuz COVID fucked with the shop deck manufacturing.
I struggle to see why I should spend the same amount of money on shoes as I do a deck, shoes feel harder to make with more expensive materials but maybe im ignorant
Feel like they went from $80-85 to $90-100 at most Canadian shops this spring, and I'm fine with it. I can afford the extra few bucks, and with so many new people taking up skating during COVID; this was probably the right time to reset the price scale a little. Someone who never walked into a skate shop before May doesn't know or care that a deck is $10 more than it used to be, and still considers skating a pretty cheap hobby compared to most others (i.e. video games, golf, cycling, etc.). Boards still flew off the shelves all summer, and I'm glad the shops got to take in some extra money from it.
Canada sucks! XD XD XD XD XD
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I had a couple quasi's that I paid about $60 for and they seemed to fall apart pretty easily. I'd gladly pay $70-75 for a consistently high quality, american made deck using good canadian maple. I doubt that's feasible though.
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Australia is total insanity. I don't know what the fuck's up with people who buy pro boards here. I have plenty of mates who pay $120 for a deck. $140 is not unheard of. It's disturbing. I ride the chinese shopboards for between $40 and $60 bucks.
They're cheaper, stronger and I skate just fine compared to the fools riding boards worth twice as much as mine. I guess it's a bummer to no support such and such skate company, but I think local shops and being able to afford and enjoy riding a skateboard is more important than any of those companies.
I think people are kidding if the weight difference between these shop boards and "pro" boards have an effect on their skateboarding.
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Can anyone accurately say what the actual cost of manufacturing a deck in China/Mexico and getting it to you local shop is? The argument is kind of pointless until we can determine that.
I dont know too many other sports where the main instrument of that sport is as disposable as skateboarding. Wouldn’t making boards that last longer and out of more sustainable materials hurt the industry as much as cheap blanks and shop boards?
If you work backwards, it might show you approximately how much they can cost, but not exactly because that is one of the secrets of the industry as well.
So you have the retail shop, who would like to make a decent margin (some mark up 100% but most are less) who gets from the wholesale distributor in the country.
The wholesale distributor needs to make margin too, when they get it from the brand company.
The brand company gets the product made to specifications and requirements from the manufacturer or woodshop.
The woodshop is the primary source, who determines the price, so if each board goes up $1 then that could easily be $10 or more at the retail shop end.
Eg woodshop $8 to $10, brand company $16 to $20, wholesale distributor $30 to $40 and then retail shop $60 to $80
The model might have one less step in country, or may even have another step if it goes through another set of hands for a different country too.
Anyone with more correct information, please let me know, as I am happy to be corrected.
Your math is pretty spot on. You can do a run of boards off Alibaba for $8 a board, maybe $10 with a graphic on there. MOQ is pretty manageable too at 100 boards, shipping would probably add $3-5 a board depending on location. But you are paying for lower tier stuff, equivalent to the recent run of Tum Yeto boards that came out of China.
I won't knock China's manufacturing prowess, they are experts at scaling production and reducing costs, quality be damned. Their local factories who make local boards aren't 1/2 bad but you can't expect the same quality given the price. I have a board from a China woodshop sitting on my rack and while it look good it is definitely lighter than a US deck with far less concave. The only woodshop I would trust with consistency is DSM since they have been doing it for 15 years and supplying to the Dwindle companies.
While it may be a dream for some to run their own board company with their own logos, stockpiling boards is freezes up your capital that could be used for other parts of your business (opportunity costs). When you factor in marketing the boards, storage, dealing with customer enquires, the margins aren't great and you may be better off doing wheels, bearings or bolts which are much lower cost, lower risk and higher margin.
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Can anyone accurately say what the actual cost of manufacturing a deck in China/Mexico and getting it to you local shop is? The argument is kind of pointless until we can determine that.
I dont know too many other sports where the main instrument of that sport is as disposable as skateboarding. Wouldn’t making boards that last longer and out of more sustainable materials hurt the industry as much as cheap blanks and shop boards?
If you work backwards, it might show you approximately how much they can cost, but not exactly because that is one of the secrets of the industry as well.
So you have the retail shop, who would like to make a decent margin (some mark up 100% but most are less) who gets from the wholesale distributor in the country.
The wholesale distributor needs to make margin too, when they get it from the brand company.
The brand company gets the product made to specifications and requirements from the manufacturer or woodshop.
The woodshop is the primary source, who determines the price, so if each board goes up $1 then that could easily be $10 or more at the retail shop end.
Eg woodshop $8 to $10, brand company $16 to $20, wholesale distributor $30 to $40 and then retail shop $60 to $80
The model might have one less step in country, or may even have another step if it goes through another set of hands for a different country too.
Anyone with more correct information, please let me know, as I am happy to be corrected.
I think in one of the 9clubs, Torey pudwill was talking about eastern not wanting to pay more than $18 for his Thank you boards, and Pudwill said he was making $2 per deck. So that would mean that he was paying $16 per deck. It might have been different numbers I am not going to listen to that one again. Keep in mind those are heat transferred probably on both sides with shrink wrap and probably a sticker or something, not just a blank. Also, being dsm, they had to be shipped to him from China, which was probably a part of the $16 cost. When I owned a shop from 2003-2009 I would pay $30-$38 wholesale for decks from the distributor and sell them Retail for $50-$60.
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I don't think they're underpriced per se. Back in the 80s you had boards made in America and silkscreened by hand. Now they're mass produced in Mexico or China, and graphics are heat transferred. Boards back then were also bigger, and used more material, and you didn't buy one every 2 weeks (more like one every, 3-6 months, or even once a year).
this
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I think in one of the 9clubs, Torey pudwill was talking about eastern not wanting to pay more than $18 for his Thank you boards, and Pudwill said he was making $2 per deck. So that would mean that he was paying $16 per deck. It might have been different numbers I am not going to listen to that one again. Keep in mind those are heat transferred probably on both sides with shrink wrap and probably a sticker or something, not just a blank. Also, being dsm, they had to be shipped to him from China, which was probably a part of the $16 cost. When I owned a shop from 2003-2009 I would pay $30-$38 wholesale for decks from the distributor and sell them Retail for $50-$60.
I am in Australia so it is somewhat different here, but keep hearing shops in the USA make very little on pro decks. Is it because there is a set RRP or "expected price" or too much competition or something else I don't know about?
When wholesale prices go up a few dollars here, retail shops who are only about the money will jump AU$10 quite easily, but some of the core shops seem to wear the cost and still have most pro decks at about the same prices, or some will even have overall lower prices just to try to get more business.
In saying that too, most of the core shops I know will give significant discounts to regular customers, so margins go down further at the shop end if they mostly have regulars only.
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I don't think they're underpriced per se. Back in the 80s you had boards made in America and silkscreened by hand. Now they're mass produced in Mexico or China, and graphics are heat transferred. Boards back then were also bigger, and used more material, and you didn't buy one every 2 weeks (more like one every, 3-6 months, or even once a year).
this
Yeah, I think there’s something to this. Maybe they were priced fairly then and they’re priced fairly now? Possible. Sure does seem like they used to last a lot longer, though. Wonder how much that has to do with glues and pressing techniques used back in the 80’s?
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Yeah, I think there’s something to this. Maybe they were priced fairly then and they’re priced fairly now? Possible. Sure does seem like they used to last a lot longer, though. Wonder how much that has to do with glues and pressing techniques used back in the 80’s?
I forget where I saw it but there was an amazing piece written about this, with both the average cost and the average lifespan of a skateboard deck at various points in history.
The 80s were all about the graphic for most skaters, who by todays standards were very minimally skilled. We skated mostly ramps and some street, but didn't really do any tricks that would break a board, and anyone who could flip their board was the local hero. Five stairs doesn't seem like much nowdays, but it was the most I ever did, and I recall looking down an eight stair which was huge back then and seeing pro dudes walk away from it too. Boards would often be passed down from others, and some I had went through a few sets of hands before mine, but we could still see the graphic and shape, even if the tail was half what it was when new and those things would last years.
The early to mid 90s were the worst, with quality of boards really being at the lowest point while prices were still quite high and I know a lot of us were breaking boards on flat ground flip tricks way too often. As things went on, boards seemed to get stronger and people were starting to do bigger things, so it was a fairly even but still relatively short lifespan of a deck. Kids coming up were getting much better and the difference between the average pro and the average local hero could be fairly close in some instances, but the main and well known pros were still always miles ahead.
Bring about the current period (and could almost include the last twenty years) and kids are still able to make boards last, but the average pro will set up a new board every other session and a lot of demos would see boards broken here and there if they didn't land what they wanted, but other pros could make a deck last a month or more and still pass it on to others without it really losing pop or getting flexed out, as per a few I have had given to me and passed on to others over the years.
If anything, skateboarding has become a much more diverse spread of companies, woodshops, brands, with so many more blank or generic products, more shops and associated persons, compared to previous eras, with so many people still looking to make the same profit but at lower overheads, eg moving production to other countries and other things like automated machines to do the work.
The split / difference between high end branded product and generic blanks has never been so great and only looks to increase as time goes on, but it seems there will always be a market for both and then a lot in between as well.
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It’s funny how alien has not changed their graphics but are still considered cool.
You don't get out much do you
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I don't think they're underpriced per se. Back in the 80s you had boards made in America and silkscreened by hand. Now they're mass produced in Mexico or China, and graphics are heat transferred. Boards back then were also bigger, and used more material, and you didn't buy one every 2 weeks (more like one every, 3-6 months, or even once a year).
This is a great point that I hadn't thought of before. I was thinking of a skate deck in 2020 as the same product as a skate deck in the 80's, but it really isn't. Makes me wonder what the profit margin was in the past versus what it is now. Most mass produced consumer products have undergone big changes in manufacturing in the last ~30 years. In some cases the product is better, and in some it is worse; but in almost all cases, the product is now more expensive. The point of the cheaper manufacturing - whether it improved the end product or not - was to lower the production cost and increase the margin. I wonder if skate companies today are making more or less profit (both overall and on a per-unit basis) than they were in the past.
There's so many more factors to consider that make this hard to figure out:
- how did the market change with the influx of 8 million new board brands? Does a brand like Baker or Primitive sell more boards in 2020 than Powell or Santa Cruz did in the 80's?
- how many total boards are being made/sold? Even with more brands diluting the market; it's a bigger market. There are more skate shops, immense growth in skateboarding outside the U.S., likely more people skating in the U.S., and those people are going through boards faster. Does that offset the market dilution from all the new brands?
- how did the changing pro skater pay scale change this? Think about how much money guys like Hosoi used to make from their board sponsors, versus now where top pro skaters make so much more from shoe and energy drink sponsors that they don't really need the board cheque, which they all say is no longer a big part of their income. It's not uncommon for established pros to go months with no board sponsor (Evan Smith) or start their own small board brand that probably doesn't make much money (Rowley, MJ).
- how much have the rising costs of materials (wood, glue, manufacturing equipment) offset the cost savings from outsourcing production and heat transfer graphics?
- have the prices stayed down because no one is really trying to profit from board sales anymore? I remember someone saying that the margins are so bad on hardgoods that a skate shop is really just a shoe store that has skateboards in it. Are board brands really just t-shirt/hoodie brands that also make skateboards? Think about Polar for example - I bet they make more profit from selling $100 worth of jeans (aka one pair) than $500 worth of boards (aka 10 boards), but the boards are essential to marketing the jeans.
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You can get top quality, made in USA boards made for under $20/printed. A shop like Orchard has shop boards for $45 gripped, with good graphics. They get a good margin, and people get a good value. This is always going to be a baseline holding down prices of pro boards for a lot, if not most, shops.
Pro boards are underpriced if you expect the rider/brand/distributer/shop to make a reasonable profit. Pro boards are overpriced if you look at them primarily in terms of bang for the buck.
Obviously marketing, stoke factor, etc. are a major part about how people perceive value, but really the distribution model has the biggest impact on pricing.
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paid 80$ (CDN) for a local garage brand pro model (includes local sales tax and grip).
I probably paid around the same price 25 years ago at a shop, so inflation adjusted, prices gone down I guess...
But with some shop boards being pressed by the same manufactuere of abovbe mentioend garage brand, go for the shop deck I guess - its the same wood.
However, kinda nice to support a local brand, graphics are cool too.
Feel like it's often a whole different margin/structure on a 'garage' brand, and I probably wouldn't pay close to full price in most cases. They're not paying a team or any of the associated expenses with that (travel, videos, etc.), it may be coming from a second tier wood shop, and there's no cut going to the shop (if you buy it direct from the brand, as is often the case). I consider that stuff to be part of what I'm paying for when I pay full price for a board at a shop. I'd rather pay $95 and spread that money among an actual skate brand, a professional artist who was paid to make the graphic, a pro skater, an established wood shop, and my local skate shop; versus spend $80 and have it split between a rando Chinese factory and some guy who knows how to order boards.
Mileage may vary on all of that, obviously. If it's a small brand who does support a team, is using a good wood shop, and is selling it at a real skate shop; then I'm all for it - they should be charging as much as the big guys, and I'll pay it. It just feels like all that isn't the case a lot of the time.
Edit for the Americans: I'm talking Canadian dollars in the figures above.
I hear ya, makes sense. Essentiqally, bought it cause Im used ot the shape / mold / concave. Ive gotten really used to them (Control press from Quebec Canada). Normally score for 40$, but the supply dried up (buy from the homies). Bought from the shop, so at least shops making a few bucks. Its a pro model - so hopefully the rider gets a few bucks as well.
But very hard for me to justify paying more than 80$ for a board, regardless of brand etc..It just gets too pricey. Next spring, gonne find either garage brand / or shop boards that are pressed by Control, and buy like 5-6 at once for the summer.
But yea, aint cheap up in the great white north.
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Looks like Vice actually did a story on this in 2018...
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vice.com/amp/en/article/a34ede/why-have-skateboards-cost-dollar50-for-30-years
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paid 80$ (CDN) for a local garage brand pro model (includes local sales tax and grip).
I probably paid around the same price 25 years ago at a shop, so inflation adjusted, prices gone down I guess...
But with some shop boards being pressed by the same manufactuere of abovbe mentioend garage brand, go for the shop deck I guess - its the same wood.
However, kinda nice to support a local brand, graphics are cool too.
Feel like it's often a whole different margin/structure on a 'garage' brand, and I probably wouldn't pay close to full price in most cases. They're not paying a team or any of the associated expenses with that (travel, videos, etc.), it may be coming from a second tier wood shop, and there's no cut going to the shop (if you buy it direct from the brand, as is often the case). I consider that stuff to be part of what I'm paying for when I pay full price for a board at a shop. I'd rather pay $95 and spread that money among an actual skate brand, a professional artist who was paid to make the graphic, a pro skater, an established wood shop, and my local skate shop; versus spend $80 and have it split between a rando Chinese factory and some guy who knows how to order boards.
Mileage may vary on all of that, obviously. If it's a small brand who does support a team, is using a good wood shop, and is selling it at a real skate shop; then I'm all for it - they should be charging as much as the big guys, and I'll pay it. It just feels like all that isn't the case a lot of the time.
Edit for the Americans: I'm talking Canadian dollars in the figures above.
I hear ya, makes sense. Essentiqally, bought it cause Im used ot the shape / mold / concave. Ive gotten really used to them (Control press from Quebec Canada). Normally score for 40$, but the supply dried up (buy from the homies). Bought from the shop, so at least shops making a few bucks. Its a pro model - so hopefully the rider gets a few bucks as well.
But very hard for me to justify paying more than 80$ for a board, regardless of brand etc..It just gets too pricey. Next spring, gonne find either garage brand / or shop boards that are pressed by Control, and buy like 5-6 at once for the summer.
But yea, aint cheap up in the great white north.
Are you friends with Bob or Doug McKenzie? If so I would like to invite you to come down to the states. My first tape is “the great white north” performed by Bob and Doug. I’m a huge fan of your country and the many talented comedians, skaters, musicians and all around good people!
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Your math is pretty spot on.
Looks like Vice actually did a story on this in 2018...
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vice.com/amp/en/article/a34ede/why-have-skateboards-cost-dollar50-for-30-years
JB77 - thanks that is a good one!!!
https://www.vice.com/en/article/a34ede/why-have-skateboards-cost-dollar50-for-30-years
“BBS started producing in 1996 in the US, and we made a deck for around $12.50. We would ship it off to somebody that would silkscreen a graphic on, and it might bring the cost up to $18. It was a real artistic, painstaking process that cost quite a bit of money to produce. We would sell that to a brand like Expedition or Arcade. They would get a deck with graphic for $18, and they would sell it to a distributor for $27, the distributor would sell to retail for $30–35, and it would sell for $50. There were a lot of hands that things went through.”
A few key changes in how boards are manufactured actually lowered wholesale costs. First, heat transfer images brought the cost of silkscreening closer to $1 per board. “When you take away a few dollars, by the time you send it through everybody’s hands and they have to make their margins, it helps out quite a bit. That saves a couple years of inflation right there.”
The other big savings came in the early 2000s, when manufacturers began making boards in China or, in BBS’s case, Mexico. “We took our average labor cost at the time from $13 an hour in the US to down to $4 an hour. We were able to drop the price of our decks from $12.50 to $10.”
And lots more info in the article, so worth reading it.
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shit is extremely expensive in poland. a pro board is about 300pln retail (over 75 bucks), a polish brand board is about 200 (a little over $50) and you can get blanks for 120-150pln (30-40 bucks). it doesn't seem all that expensive, but people here earn a lot less than pretty much everywhere else. if you earn $1000 a month here you're living good; if you earn $2000 a month you're living like a king. now let's say you're buying a deck a month and a pair of shoes a month earning the average polish salary which is about 3000pln ($750, which is enough to live off of alone). a board is 250pln, shoes are 300pln, so you're spending about 20% of your monthly income on skateboarding. that's why i usually skate blanks and second hand shelltoes. for comparison, when i was starting skating 10 years ago pro usa decks were about 200pln (so 50 bucks) and you could get a polish board for 100pln (25 bucks), but i've heard from older skaters that back in the late 90s/early 2000s skate shit cost pretty much as much as it costs now while people earned significantly less money on average than they do today
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shit is extremely expensive in poland...
Yeah crazy! Are there many shops or much selection or are you fairly limited to whatever you can get your hands on?
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I don't think they're underpriced per se. Back in the 80s you had boards made in America and silkscreened by hand. Now they're mass produced in Mexico or China, and graphics are heat transferred. Boards back then were also bigger, and used more material, and you didn't buy one every 2 weeks (more like one every, 3-6 months, or even once a year).
This is a great point that I hadn't thought of before. I was thinking of a skate deck in 2020 as the same product as a skate deck in the 80's, but it really isn't. Makes me wonder what the profit margin was in the past versus what it is now. Most mass produced consumer products have undergone big changes in manufacturing in the last ~30 years. In some cases the product is better, and in some it is worse; but in almost all cases, the product is now more expensive. The point of the cheaper manufacturing - whether it improved the end product or not - was to lower the production cost and increase the margin. I wonder if skate companies today are making more or less profit (both overall and on a per-unit basis) than they were in the past.
There's so many more factors to consider that make this hard to figure out:
- how did the market change with the influx of 8 million new board brands? Does a brand like Baker or Primitive sell more boards in 2020 than Powell or Santa Cruz did in the 80's?
- how many total boards are being made/sold? Even with more brands diluting the market; it's a bigger market. There are more skate shops, immense growth in skateboarding outside the U.S., likely more people skating in the U.S., and those people are going through boards faster. Does that offset the market dilution from all the new brands?
- how did the changing pro skater pay scale change this? Think about how much money guys like Hosoi used to make from their board sponsors, versus now where top pro skaters make so much more from shoe and energy drink sponsors that they don't really need the board cheque, which they all say is no longer a big part of their income. It's not uncommon for established pros to go months with no board sponsor (Evan Smith) or start their own small board brand that probably doesn't make much money (Rowley, MJ).
- how much have the rising costs of materials (wood, glue, manufacturing equipment) offset the cost savings from outsourcing production and heat transfer graphics?
- have the prices stayed down because no one is really trying to profit from board sales anymore? I remember someone saying that the margins are so bad on hardgoods that a skate shop is really just a shoe store that has skateboards in it. Are board brands really just t-shirt/hoodie brands that also make skateboards? Think about Polar for example - I bet they make more profit from selling $100 worth of jeans (aka one pair) than $500 worth of boards (aka 10 boards), but the boards are essential to marketing the jeans.
This is true. Back then there were about five-ten real board brands with about five pros each and a few ams. There were some tiny brands, but they didn't really count for anything except fun. Rocco came through and fucked everything up with the huge super teams. Very entertaining to watch, but not great for the industry. Now board sponsors don't really matter. Shoes, clothes, soda, energy drinks, yoga pants, whatever.
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Just to put a few things into perspective. Baker logo boards are now $42 for a shop. Dwindle brands are that much and then go up from there for pro boards. You might be able to get that down if you are buying a dozen or more direct from them.
But remember, the shop also has to pay to have the boards shipped to them. When shipping in bulk it’s still about $3-$4 per board shipping.
A sheet of Jessup is now costing most shops about $3-$3.50 shipped to their door.
In a lot of retail set ups, you should be asking $95 for a board with grip.
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A friend and I started a board company in 2012 and it lasted about 5 years. We were getting our boards screened at BBS and Generator. At least at the time the were pressed and screen in the US and had a made in the USA stamp on them. It cost us $17 per 4 color screened board. We sold them to shops for $27 and the shops would sell the for $55.
It was fun and would pay for the next round but not lucrative in anyway. I think they are a little underpriced. I think $70 would be a good spot for USA made boards but that’s getting expensive for kids getting into skating so as a skater I like that they are under priced. As someone who tried to do a brand, I did not like that they were underpriced.
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is there like 0 woodshops in europe? doesn't really makes sense to me that decks costs $80 in poland.
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A friend and I started a board company in 2012 and it lasted about 5 years. We were getting our boards screened at BBS and Generator. At least at the time the were pressed and screen in the US and had a made in the USA stamp on them. It cost us $17 per 4 color screened board. We sold them to shops for $27 and the shops would sell the for $55.
It was fun and would pay for the next round but not lucrative in anyway. I think they are a little underpriced. I think $70 would be a good spot for USA made boards but that’s getting expensive for kids getting into skating so as a skater I like that they are under priced. As someone who tried to do a brand, I did not like that they were underpriced.
This is great “real world”, first hand info. Thanks for sharing.
I’m glad big brands like Anti-Hero and Krooked continental to offer price point decks for those just getting into skating or who don’t have $50-$60 buck to shell out each time they need to replace their gear.
Do you feel like there was a big difference in those sort of budget decks and the ones you were buying wholesale?
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A friend and I started a board company in 2012 and it lasted about 5 years. We were getting our boards screened at BBS and Generator. At least at the time the were pressed and screen in the US and had a made in the USA stamp on them. It cost us $17 per 4 color screened board. We sold them to shops for $27 and the shops would sell the for $55.
It was fun and would pay for the next round but not lucrative in anyway. I think they are a little underpriced. I think $70 would be a good spot for USA made boards but that’s getting expensive for kids getting into skating so as a skater I like that they are under priced. As someone who tried to do a brand, I did not like that they were underpriced.
This is great “real world”, first hand info. Thanks for sharing.
I’m glad big brands like Anti-Hero and Krooked continental to offer price point decks for those just getting into skating or who don’t have $50-$60 buck to shell out each time they need to replace their gear.
Do you feel like there was a big difference in those sort of budget decks and the ones you were buying wholesale?
I’ve only skated one of the Real budget boards around 2010 and it felt almost indistinguishable from what we were using. I think a lot of those boards cut cost by reducing colors and printing rather than cutting corners on wood. At least that’s my take with the DLXSF budget stuff. I think putting the graphics on the board is really the most expensive part of the process.
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A friend and I started a board company in 2012 and it lasted about 5 years. We were getting our boards screened at BBS and Generator. At least at the time the were pressed and screen in the US and had a made in the USA stamp on them. It cost us $17 per 4 color screened board. We sold them to shops for $27 and the shops would sell the for $55.
It was fun and would pay for the next round but not lucrative in anyway. I think they are a little underpriced. I think $70 would be a good spot for USA made boards but that’s getting expensive for kids getting into skating so as a skater I like that they are under priced. As someone who tried to do a brand, I did not like that they were underpriced.
Are you counting that as $17 to your door? Or are you not counting shipping and set up fees? A four color deck will run you well over $100 for the set up.
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A friend and I started a board company in 2012 and it lasted about 5 years. We were getting our boards screened at BBS and Generator. At least at the time the were pressed and screen in the US and had a made in the USA stamp on them. It cost us $17 per 4 color screened board. We sold them to shops for $27 and the shops would sell the for $55.
It was fun and would pay for the next round but not lucrative in anyway. I think they are a little underpriced. I think $70 would be a good spot for USA made boards but that’s getting expensive for kids getting into skating so as a skater I like that they are under priced. As someone who tried to do a brand, I did not like that they were underpriced.
Are you counting that as $17 to your door? Or are you not counting shipping and set up fees? A four color deck will run you well over $100 for the set up.
$17 did not include setting up the screens but did include shipping for a round of decks. I forget how much a new screen was but it was something like $50-$100 at the time for a set of screens for a graphic. We would do a few hundred of each graphic. We would use the same screens to do different sizes and colors of the same graphic so the setup fee didn’t really feel like too heavy of an expense. This is probably outdated now though.
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is there like 0 woodshops in europe? doesn't really makes sense to me that decks costs $80 in poland.
The main one is HLC in Spain (presses boards for JART, SOUR, some american brands for european market : SK8MAFIA, PLANB, SOVRN, FLIP and then some).
there are others but with way lower capacity.
I think MDCN in Germany is importing chinese wood and print stuff on it.
I am not surprised by 80$ in Poland, considering US brands boards were at 70€ in France for instance.
Covid makes them 75 / 80 € now
BAKER / DEATHWISH for some reason will be sold at 85-90€ by now. It doesn't make any sense compared to other brands from the same woodshop
There's a scammer on the "distribution line" for Baker Boys landing in France...
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A friend and I started a board company in 2012 and it lasted about 5 years. We were getting our boards screened at BBS and Generator. At least at the time the were pressed and screen in the US and had a made in the USA stamp on them. It cost us $17 per 4 color screened board. We sold them to shops for $27 and the shops would sell the for $55.
It was fun and would pay for the next round but not lucrative in anyway. I think they are a little underpriced. I think $70 would be a good spot for USA made boards but that’s getting expensive for kids getting into skating so as a skater I like that they are under priced. As someone who tried to do a brand, I did not like that they were underpriced.
This is great “real world”, first hand info. Thanks for sharing.
I’m glad big brands like Anti-Hero and Krooked continental to offer price point decks for those just getting into skating or who don’t have $50-$60 buck to shell out each time they need to replace their gear.
Do you feel like there was a big difference in those sort of budget decks and the ones you were buying wholesale?
I’ve only skated one of the Real budget boards around 2010 and it felt almost indistinguishable from what we were using. I think a lot of those boards cut cost by reducing colors and printing rather than cutting corners on wood. At least that’s my take with the DLXSF budget stuff. I think putting the graphics on the board is really the most expensive part of the process.
Current Real budget boards are named Renewal Series
Made of recycled wood, made in mexico. 60€ (instead of 70€)
At first i thought it only had to do with: no stickers, basic prints, no colored plys...
Wood is different, i don't know how different but the feedback on these is pretty good (there are some from Antihero and Krooked at the same price tag, same wood i guess).
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Current Real budget boards are named Renewal Series
Made of recycled wood, made in mexico. 60€ (instead of 70€)
At first i thought it only had to do with: no stickers, basic prints, no colored plys...
Wood is different, i don't know how different but the feedback on these is pretty good (there are some from Antihero and Krooked at the same price tag, same wood i guess).
For people who don't break boards, the pricepoint DLX decks will still be awesome, but for the heavy footers or the bad landers, these can last less than one session and I had recommended people I know who are like that to NOT get them when I was in the shop. I have not broken any and think they are still good boards, but I can definitely feel the flex in them compared to pro wood and some I had are a bit flatter too. I ride and have mostly the 8.5 versions.
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Do you feel like there was a big difference in those sort of budget decks and the ones you were buying wholesale?
The bigger name brands all have very specific wood lots, maybe even dedicated presses or different processes, but the smaller brands can still get the decent wood and good shapes for the most part, it seems.
One woodshop has thousands of shape options which can be a bit too much, especially if the new board brand guys are not that knowledgeable, but there are generic sizes and shapes for the medium market.
The Generator wood that a few local companies had used here before covid was good but definitely did not hold up the same as DLX wood.
Edit / Added: *** I know they come out of the same woodshop, but some feel better than others ***
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Those decks sizes are beautiful. All the sub 7.75s
Back when an 8.25 popsicle was considered massive lol.
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Checked out the new Kader panther deck only to realise it had a 90€ pricetag. Like come on, that’s ridiculous when baker also skips one step by having its own distro.
I just hope HLC starts making better boards shape/wood wise or another euro factory pops up and im never buying US boards again.
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The price change has been slowly happening already for sure. 54.99 or 59.99 for a deck without grip is prey standard on most shops online stores. Once you buy grip that puts it in the $70ish dollars range. I've seen some of the cool guy brands (FA/hockey) going for 64.99 without grip. I've seen what people in other countries are part for decks, and that's just outrageous. Idk the different currency values and how that plays into things, but I would like to see skateboards within a reasonable price range for most parents to consider buying them for their children. If skateboard manufacturing was more localized, and local brands employed people and provided value to a community, I think people would be more willing to pay a little more. But that's just me trying to have an idealistic view of capitalism. I wouldn't mind paying $75-$80 for a locally made quality skateboard, preferably with grip.
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Prices have been higher, but I’m cool with that.
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$110+ just for a deck in Australia.
And it is only going higher with the low AU dollar compared to the US, some wholesale prices now over $75 just the deck, plus shipping, which is going to be hard to justify.
Those new FA and Hockey decks were AU$159 from OCD shop in the last lot that came out, and all sold out too.
At one point I seem to recall all pro decks were all around $150 but I cannot exactly remember when, 2000 give or take a few years? I was riding lots of blanks and seconds and getting by, but things got pretty costly, then the AU dollar went back above the US dollar and many people were enjoying getting lots for half the prices from US shops.
China made blanks still wholesale for $25 to $30 so retail for AU$50 to AU$60 but often don't last more than a session or two under heavy skating.
I would rather the good quality decks than the cheap quick fix, but that is just me.
Better off spending another $20 or so and skating Globe Resin 7 boards instead of blanks or cheap shop boards.
Yeah I think I remember paying $140 for pro Alien Workshop boards around 2001-2002 but it didn't last long for me or my buddies being unemployed teens.
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$110+ just for a deck in Australia.
And it is only going higher with the low AU dollar compared to the US, some wholesale prices now over $75 just the deck, plus shipping, which is going to be hard to justify.
Those new FA and Hockey decks were AU$159 from OCD shop in the last lot that came out, and all sold out too.
At one point I seem to recall all pro decks were all around $150 but I cannot exactly remember when, 2000 give or take a few years? I was riding lots of blanks and seconds and getting by, but things got pretty costly, then the AU dollar went back above the US dollar and many people were enjoying getting lots for half the prices from US shops.
China made blanks still wholesale for $25 to $30 so retail for AU$50 to AU$60 but often don't last more than a session or two under heavy skating.
I would rather the good quality decks than the cheap quick fix, but that is just me.
Better off spending another $20 or so and skating Globe Resin 7 boards instead of blanks or cheap shop boards.
Yeah I think I remember paying $140 for pro Alien Workshop boards around 2001-2002 but it didn't last long for me or my buddies being unemployed teens.
I had that dipped ave deck I know what you’re talking about, yep close to 140 at st skate supply
Mother threw out my fuct polo club jumper that I also got from there
Just go through mates that use bbs, hit me up if you need
These days you gotta do what’s best for you ay
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Last generator board I bought was 80 Euros which is insane, the only alternative in Europe is HLC and all decks I tried were awful.
Crail and Dwindle boards are around 60 Euros and seems a better option than Any Jart board even if they're 10 euros less.
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I would gladly pay $70. I am glad prices are rising. It seems like Skateshops and board companies are just breaking even or doing it for the love, which is dumb. it'd be cool if the actual think we skate, the deck, could generate a little profit, instead of everyone having to do some Sci-Fi Fantasy $120 hoodie style "drop", selling dunks to people that don't actually skate, or weed socks on the side to turn a profit.
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Overpriced exactly why I skate blanks if I can buy them in bulk even better
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Vice frames the question oddly. The price of boards should be decreasing not increasing.
It's unclear whether the price bumps of 2020 were due to fundamental costs increasing (wood prices, logistics, etc) or the retailers just all jumped at an opportunity to raise prices. I heard from a not totally unreliable source that the temporary board shortage and subsequent price increase was not actually because of wood shortage or manufacturing capacity but due to a shortage of heat transfer film? wonder if anyone else heard that
anywhere outside the USA the wild costs of skate equipment are mainly due to tariffs.
I am pretty sure the shortage was an effect of rising demand and delayed production as everyone and their mom seemed to have picked up skateboarding during the first lockdown when all manufacturers had closed their facilities.
In the UK/Europe prices were not like that until last year though. There had been a slight increase in some brands prices after FA introduced a higher price tag. During the last 12 months there have been two 5GBP increases among all prices for decks. The only ones to stay the same are HLC decks
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$110+ just for a deck in Australia.
And it is only going higher with the low AU dollar compared to the US, some wholesale prices now over $75 just the deck, plus shipping, which is going to be hard to justify.
Those new FA and Hockey decks were AU$159 from OCD shop in the last lot that came out, and all sold out too.
At one point I seem to recall all pro decks were all around $150 but I cannot exactly remember when, 2000 give or take a few years? I was riding lots of blanks and seconds and getting by, but things got pretty costly, then the AU dollar went back above the US dollar and many people were enjoying getting lots for half the prices from US shops.
China made blanks still wholesale for $25 to $30 so retail for AU$50 to AU$60 but often don't last more than a session or two under heavy skating.
I would rather the good quality decks than the cheap quick fix, but that is just me.
Better off spending another $20 or so and skating Globe Resin 7 boards instead of blanks or cheap shop boards.
Yeah I think I remember paying $140 for pro Alien Workshop boards around 2001-2002 but it didn't last long for me or my buddies being unemployed teens.
I have to strongly disagree with the china made blanks only lasting a session or two. They are all I have ridden {australian shop boards/blanks - which are all the same china blanks} since 2o11. I guess I have the fact that I'm light on my side maybe...but I skate just as hard/harder than most people I know and the boards are absolutely fine. I've never understood anyone talking shit about the weight of shopboards {which I have heard A LOT} or whatever else their problem is and needing to spend double what I do to skate no better/no easier than I do. It's simply untrue. I know lots of guys that skate shopboards that rip and aren't replacing their boards that quickly at all. It's a topic that absolutely confuses me. I think people just like to have brands under their feet - which is fine, but I feel no allegiance to any board brand. What is a quality deck? What does that mean? To me it's a board that operates as I expect a skateboard to and doesn't break. Maybe it does all come down to me being a light-framed dude that has never really snapped boards {have snapped certainly less than 1o boards in my 25 years of skating} - I think I weigh 65kg. But then I would think the supposed extra weight of these shop boards would make it hard for me to skate them - which it is not at all. Have never had one delaminate or any other weirdness either. Not trying to argue at all - just expressing my confusion. Could you tell me what's wrong with these boards @Mbrimson88
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It’s funny how alien has not changed their graphics but are still considered cool.
Limitless by design i guess
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That board I was talking about was in 2003 I don’t know if y’all millionaires or just sponsored but yeah I can’t afford that shit
Not that I even break boards last one I broke was focus but yeah, soo much money spent in past
They owe
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Skateboarding is an expensive activity, specially because is practiced by kids who depend on their parents, unless they are really good and are lucky to be sponsored, but that's rare.
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$110+ just for a deck in Australia.
And it is only going higher with the low AU dollar compared to the US, some wholesale prices now over $75 just the deck, plus shipping, which is going to be hard to justify.
Those new FA and Hockey decks were AU$159 from OCD shop in the last lot that came out, and all sold out too.
At one point I seem to recall all pro decks were all around $150 but I cannot exactly remember when, 2000 give or take a few years? I was riding lots of blanks and seconds and getting by, but things got pretty costly, then the AU dollar went back above the US dollar and many people were enjoying getting lots for half the prices from US shops.
China made blanks still wholesale for $25 to $30 so retail for AU$50 to AU$60 but often don't last more than a session or two under heavy skating.
I would rather the good quality decks than the cheap quick fix, but that is just me.
Better off spending another $20 or so and skating Globe Resin 7 boards instead of blanks or cheap shop boards.
Yeah I think I remember paying $140 for pro Alien Workshop boards around 2001-2002 but it didn't last long for me or my buddies being unemployed teens.
I have to strongly disagree with the china made blanks only lasting a session or two. They are all I have ridden {australian shop boards/blanks - which are all the same china blanks} since 2o11. I guess I have the fact that I'm light on my side maybe...but I skate just as hard/harder than most people I know and the boards are absolutely fine. I've never understood anyone talking shit about the weight of shopboards {which I have heard A LOT} or whatever else their problem is and needing to spend double what I do to skate no better/no easier than I do. It's simply untrue. I know lots of guys that skate shopboards that rip and aren't replacing their boards that quickly at all. It's a topic that absolutely confuses me. I think people just like to have brands under their feet - which is fine, but I feel no allegiance to any board brand. What is a quality deck? What does that mean? To me it's a board that operates as I expect a skateboard to and doesn't break. Maybe it does all come down to me being a light-framed dude that has never really snapped boards {have snapped certainly less than 1o boards in my 25 years of skating} - I think I weigh 65kg. But then I would think the supposed extra weight of these shop boards would make it hard for me to skate them - which it is not at all. Have never had one delaminate or any other weirdness either. Not trying to argue at all - just expressing my confusion. Could you tell me what's wrong with these boards @Mbrimson88
Ok, so I heavily revised what I had been about to post, sent you a DM instead, given you are here in AU as well and know what we are talking about, but this is a simple version for all.
The issue I have with those blanks is NOT where they are made, but down to concave and kicks - I just cannot ride them, as they are too steep for my old busted ankles, so I ride BBS boards, usually with mellow concave, which are exactly the size, shape, concave and kicks I am comfortable with. As I don't break boards, I can afford whatever I want and it will last a decent amount of time, so I am happy to pay whatever is needed to get this. There are lots of people in the same category as me, who don't like the size, the shape, the weight or whatever, so will not ride those decks.
Others I skate with who do demolish whatever boards they ride within a few sessions, sometimes even a few hours, only buy these as they don't care so much if they break a $30 deck rather than a $60 or $100+ going by RRP more so than wholesale prices. It is interesting to note that these blanks last on average half the time that other pro boards have for them, but that is their own issue, not mine.
The only other thing to note is that everyone is different, so how one person skates and how they land or what they do can be completely different to others, but in general, many people who have skated these boards find them to be more of a last resort or a go to if they cannot get whatever else they want, or just need something cheap to get them through. I let people make up their own minds about whatever boards they buy, but it is very interesting hearing the general conversation round what they like to skate and what they find breaks more easily.
If I was breaking boards, I would definitely think twice about what I bought or had to spend and certainly could not afford to be skating at all like some others do, when they are breaking so many decks so frequently.
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Look I’m old and I don’t ollie down anything I can’t ollie up and even with those ones that cost 50 at city beach I would take ages to break one even years ago when I skated more often
Maybe these guys are jumping down proper hectic shit, there are guys that just go through boards and will just huck themselves until they land it, the board breaks, or they do
I don’t know and I don’t know enough about it to properly articulate myself but it’s something to do with concaves and or the glue they spec with polar
The cheap ones are fucking fine but that bbs shit is unreal hey
Fucking good boards man
Or maybe I’m just some old cunt I honestly don’t know just my two cents
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Deck prices have remained more or less unaffected by inflation over the last 20 years. So, are they currently underpriced? Or, were they overpriced 20 years ago?
What’s the most you’d be willing to pay for a basic, 7-ply maple deck? $60? $65? $70?
Here’s a page out of the 1999 1997 CCS catalogue...
EDIT: My mistake. This is from the 1997 catalogue. Sorry!
(https://i.postimg.cc/ydW7V8V7/B7-EAEBDD-E5-D0-42-DE-8222-FA60-A7-ECBB1-E.jpg)
everything is being overpriced now. the cost to make the board is still the same. i only buy dwindle bargain decks for $35 and might splurge on a wide boi shaped board which i have to pay full price which i dont mind for artwork from FOS love the art on all heroin decks and try to buy guest artwork by him. girl/chocolate is at least keeping their decks at $55 when all other brands have tried jumping up to $65
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Weird one is passport in Aus. They were the cheapest for years usually $100 and some places would do 20% off for over $200 so I'd normally get two for $80 each.
Now passports are $120
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Deck prices have remained more or less unaffected by inflation over the last 20 years. So, are they currently underpriced? Or, were they overpriced 20 years ago?
What’s the most you’d be willing to pay for a basic, 7-ply maple deck? $60? $65? $70?
Here’s a page out of the 1999 1997 CCS catalogue...
EDIT: My mistake. This is from the 1997 catalogue. Sorry!
(https://i.postimg.cc/ydW7V8V7/B7-EAEBDD-E5-D0-42-DE-8222-FA60-A7-ECBB1-E.jpg)
That Workshop Matrix deck was my first board. However, I never knew it was a slick. I'm shocked. It feels like when you think you are one nationality all your life then find out your ancestors are from a totally other part of the world.
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Skateboarding is an expensive activity, specially because is practiced by kids who depend on their parents, unless they are really good and are lucky to be sponsored, but that's rare.
Skateboarding is not expensive at all as a hobby/sport when you're an adult. I have friends into golf, boating, modifying cars, gambling, wine, getting divorced, etc. Those are expensive hobbies.
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Weird one is passport in Aus. They were the cheapest for years usually $100 and some places would do 20% off for over $200 so I'd normally get two for $80 each.
Now passports are $120
Kind of fucked that I can pay way less in the states to get one of your Ozzy company's boards than you do in your inverted land. Last Passport I added to the pile, maybe two months ago, was a sale board and I think I paid $45 US (free shipping because I got another board at the same time). You guys should riot.
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Weird one is passport in Aus. They were the cheapest for years usually $100 and some places would do 20% off for over $200 so I'd normally get two for $80 each.
Now passports are $120
Kind of fucked that I can pay way less in the states to get one of your Ozzy company's boards than you do in your inverted land. Last Passport I added to the pile, maybe two months ago, was a sale board and I think I paid $45 US (free shipping because I got another board at the same time). You guys should riot.
Also interesting to note that Passport might have originated in brand here, but have always used BBS wood (made in Mexico), which is still cheaper to get into the USA compared to shipping it half way round the world to here in AU.
If you look well enough, you can still get boards for under AU$100 easily enough with discount codes or other means, but the RRP of anything like pro wood is well up into the higher $$ nowdays, no matter where the brand started.
There are other Aussie brands on cheap wood that are in shops for the same price, that I would never touch, purely based on the board quality / woodshop they came from, but that is another thing entirely.
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That board I was talking about was in 2003 I don’t know if y’all millionaires or just sponsored but yeah I can’t afford that shit
Not that I even break boards last one I broke was focus but yeah, soo much money spent in past
They owe
I’m not a millionaire but I buy way more boards than I need, usually from people that are hooked up but in conclusion THEY OWE!! Gnarred
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Weird one is passport in Aus. They were the cheapest for years usually $100 and some places would do 20% off for over $200 so I'd normally get two for $80 each.
Now passports are $120
Kind of fucked that I can pay way less in the states to get one of your Ozzy company's boards than you do in your inverted land. Last Passport I added to the pile, maybe two months ago, was a sale board and I think I paid $45 US (free shipping because I got another board at the same time). You guys should riot.
Also interesting to note that Passport might have originated in brand here, but have always used BBS wood (made in Mexico), which is still cheaper to get into the USA compared to shipping it half way round the world to here in AU.
If you look well enough, you can still get boards for under AU$100 easily enough with discount codes or other means, but the RRP of anything like pro wood is well up into the higher $$ nowdays, no matter where the brand started.
There are other Aussie brands on cheap wood that are in shops for the same price, that I would never touch, purely based on the board quality / woodshop they came from, but that is another thing entirely.
I wasn't really trying to complain just pointing out how prices change around.
Ten years ago I didn't get why people bought janoskis you could get two pairs of vans for the same price. Now nikes are way cheaper than vans.
Around 2012-2015 DC's were cheaper in Aus than in the US.
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Weird one is passport in Aus. They were the cheapest for years usually $100 and some places would do 20% off for over $200 so I'd normally get two for $80 each.
Now passports are $120
Kind of fucked that I can pay way less in the states to get one of your Ozzy company's boards than you do in your inverted land. Last Passport I added to the pile, maybe two months ago, was a sale board and I think I paid $45 US (free shipping because I got another board at the same time). You guys should riot.
Also interesting to note that Passport might have originated in brand here, but have always used BBS wood (made in Mexico), which is still cheaper to get into the USA compared to shipping it half way round the world to here in AU.
If you look well enough, you can still get boards for under AU$100 easily enough with discount codes or other means, but the RRP of anything like pro wood is well up into the higher $$ nowdays, no matter where the brand started.
There are other Aussie brands on cheap wood that are in shops for the same price, that I would never touch, purely based on the board quality / woodshop they came from, but that is another thing entirely.
I wasn't really trying to complain just pointing out how prices change around.
Ten years ago I didn't get why people bought janoskis you could get two pairs of vans for the same price. Now nikes are way cheaper than vans.
Around 2012-2015 DC's were cheaper in Aus than in the US.
Yeah I understand what you were saying, and never thought you were trying to complain so all good there.
Sent you a message anyway - easier to give you some info on local discounts, etc.