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Skateboarding => Shoes & Gear => Topic started by: smokindawgshit on August 23, 2024, 02:07:56 PM
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I was wondering how the quality of product have evolved as time went on, like wheels trucks and decks.
Like what did a wheel in 1985 feel like compared to a wheel in 1995 or a wheel in 2005.
Kook me if you must just been curious about this for a minute. Especially interested in how bushing quality has been.
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The Independent stage 7’s I had in 1997 also had terrible axle slip, it the tracker b-52s I had took the cake because in those the axle could come out completely. It was just loose in those. Can’t remember if my 90s ventures slipped as well.
Kingpin clearance was worse back then mostly as well.
Bones changed the wheel game around 2000 with the stf’s. 95 an and 97a were a little more common in the 90s as well.
Bones Swiss were always great.
I would say decks broke much easier back in the day as well. Maybe the shapes and conclaves had something to do with it, but I could snap
Multiple decks tails off on the 7.5s of the day.
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I remember board snap on kicks/ tail
And venture kingpins snap. Saying that though, I loved my old featherlites and snap boards
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Kingpins use to snap all the time! It was such a regular occurrence. Thunder, venture, krux , destructo,silver, Indy, I broke em all. Then it sort of stopped happening. I haven’t broken a king pin since like 2012. I do wonder what changed.
Same with decks, they are better now, but there was no marketing. The standard deck just got better.
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80 wheels > everything (thanks to regulations).
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80 wheels > everything (thanks to regulations).
This cannot be overstated. Santa Cruz Speedwheels in particular were amazing in the mid to late 80s. 92s, 95s and 97s. My personal favs were OJ Freezstreets. Power sliding has not felt the same since. SC and SMA decks were also great quality and Indy stage 5s were superb.
In the BPSW era all product became very disposable, not least wheels.
As we bounced out of the BPSW era, in the mid-90s Spitfire wheels were pretty great until somewhere in the very early 2000s. Like Xen said, the story goes EPA regulations changed and wheel quality went to complete shit with flat spots a plenty.
This was until the advent of SPF/ STF and a lot later Formula Four.
I feel like we are now entering a new Golden Age of Urethane and I am glad to still be skateboarding through it.
However, I will never forget how great Speedwheels felt in my salad days.
Edit* Just listen to these 95as slide on curbs and in pools.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gHCIBvUuzY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gHCIBvUuzY)
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What were the regulations with wheels that made them worse?
Crazy to think we've basically had 3 skate generations since formula 4s came out. I remember pre formula 4 all wheels felt pretty much the same and would flatspot if you looked at them wrong.
As twist said kingpins used to break constantly. Venture and Indy (stage 9) baseplates in the 00s used to break constantly too. For maybe a year when they came out theeve were by far the best trucks then Indy went to stage ten and thunder made the 149 and I never went back. Interestingly looks like venture didnt change their baseplate design but I haven't heard of people breaking them nearly as much as back then.
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Wheels, I have to say Darkstar has to be mentioned, those were the first ones that I recall that didn't flatspot bad and were really hard, designed for sliding on ledges...they lead to the STF's, then the SPF's...F4's, then Dragon/X's.....
I have a set of ditch techs which are softer SPF's as well as some old stock OJ team riders from the early 90's, they both feel like shit....
The QC on trucks has gotten so much better, and there were so many brands too.
Boards...I'd say it's about what you expect, PS had the best stuff in the 80's, through the Giant years, and we've seen BBS more or less take over. I'd say Rodney moving shapes away from the football to the popsicle was a big deal too.....
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What were the regulations with wheels that made them worse?
That is the question.
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What were the regulations with wheels that made them worse?
That is the question.
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80 wheels > everything (thanks to regulations).
This cannot be overstated. Santa Cruz Speedwheels in particular were amazing in the mid to late 80s. 92s, 95s and 97s. My personal favs were OJ Freezstreets. Power sliding has not felt the same since. SC and SMA decks were also great quality and Indy stage 5s were superb.
In the BPSW era all product became very disposable, not least wheels.
As we bounced out of the BPSW era, in the mid-90s Spitfire wheels were pretty great until somewhere in the very early 2000s. Like Xen said, the story goes EPA regulations changed and wheel quality went to complete shit with flat spots a plenty.
This was until the advent of SPF/ STF and a lot later Formula Four.
I feel like we are now entering a new Golden Age of Urethane and I am glad to still be skateboarding through it.
However, I will never forget how great Speedwheels felt in my salad days.
Edit* Just listen to these 95as slide on curbs and in pools.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gHCIBvUuzY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gHCIBvUuzY)
Man, the sound of those wheels..you can just feel them...grippy, slidey, they just worked - clear disticntiones between 95/97/99 (100/101 weren't that popular at the advent of real street as they were just too hard). There was never a need for this wheel or that wheel, get the duro you like and go, no one gave a shit about shape either, flatspots would roll out super easy. They did cone/wear super fucking easy tho. Slime balls were king for so long...OJ Street razors...
As for EPA regs, this hit just about everything in the 80s, plastics esepcially, chemical mixtures and WASTE was the issue...of course something planetairly evil made skate wheels fucking amazing :P
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80 wheels > everything (thanks to regulations).
This cannot be overstated. Santa Cruz Speedwheels in particular were amazing in the mid to late 80s. 92s, 95s and 97s. My personal favs were OJ Freezstreets. Power sliding has not felt the same since. SC and SMA decks were also great quality and Indy stage 5s were superb.
In the BPSW era all product became very disposable, not least wheels.
As we bounced out of the BPSW era, in the mid-90s Spitfire wheels were pretty great until somewhere in the very early 2000s. Like Xen said, the story goes EPA regulations changed and wheel quality went to complete shit with flat spots a plenty.
This was until the advent of SPF/ STF and a lot later Formula Four.
I feel like we are now entering a new Golden Age of Urethane and I am glad to still be skateboarding through it.
However, I will never forget how great Speedwheels felt in my salad days.
Edit* Just listen to these 95as slide on curbs and in pools.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gHCIBvUuzY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gHCIBvUuzY)
Man, the sound of those wheels..you can just feel them...grippy, slidey, they just worked - clear disticntiones between 95/97/99 (100/101 weren't that popular at the advent of real street as they were just too hard). There was never a need for this wheel or that wheel, get the duro you like and go, no one gave a shit about shape either, flatspots would roll out super easy. They did cone/wear super fucking easy tho. Slime balls were king for so long...OJ Street razors...
As for EPA regs, this hit just about everything in the 80s, plastics esepcially, chemical mixtures and WASTE was the issue...of course something planetairly evil made skate wheels fucking amazing :P
I didn't live through the 80' era of wheels (born in '94) but I've been a gear nerd for as long as I can remember. A couple of years before the dragons came out I was hunting for a good ~95a wheel and found some NOS Street Razors. I want to say they were either 92 or 93a but even being roughly 25 years old the wheels slid great, held speed well and did the job.
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This discussion made me take my 60mm 95 a OJ combos out for a spin on my Natas with Stage 4s. These are reissue wheels but still felt pretty great.
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The luxury of being an adult with money to get whatever I want outweighs the kid who skated whatever he could get back then, but I also wonder how much harder (or easier) people went on their gear back then, be it pre teens, then teens, then early adult to now older adult life and skateboarding accordingly.
Boards lasted way longer in the 80s purely because most of us didn't do the sort of things we were trying in the 90s, but also because they were made better too. 90s boards were not something I really want to think about - some lasted, most didn't from what I recall. How long depended on what was tried, but learning flip tricks meant boards had a very limited life.
Trucks also had mixed quality, but I do think they still lasted longer than anything else, as was the way, kingpins and bushings problems aside, bushings just being way harder in general, or at least trucks just not having the same amount of ease of turn as modern trucks do now. Kingpins broke and were easily replaced as they were not pressed into the baseplate, just a hex head sitting in there. Don't recall a lot of issues with axle slip, but I know there were some.
Wheels were a funny one for me - often skating a set of wheels down to almost nothing and loving street stuff, then getting new wheels and skating parks and transition for a while a lot more because they were just too big to easily slide curbs like I did on the older way smaller wheels, so it cycled around a bit in the mid to late 90s. Never really recall flatspot issues, even though I know I did have some dramas now and then, but again I don't recall the good well known brand names until later in the 00s.
I still have some of the old parts, or even some old completes from various eras and some things still skate well, but other things leave me thinking "What were we doing?" or "How could we skate this stuff back then?" maybe more so with how tight the trucks were, or the concave or shape of boards, but also thinking that was 20+ years ago, 30+ for some things, even 40+ for a few things, so from that perspective, everything has come such a long way, it is hard to even contemplate going back to old product now for a lot of things.
Last thing, not part of the original question, but shoes also played a huge part of everything through that entire time. Some shoes over the years have been so thin and basically a rubber pad under foot and almost nothing more, whereas other shoes got so tech that they had almost nothing in common with original skateboard shoes, so depending on what era you were used to, some people swear by some shoes and others swear by a totally different type of shoe, eg Osiris D3 vs Vans Era vs Converse all star vs Airwalk 540 and on and on.
Sure could go on about it a lot more, but I will leave it at that, even though I feel like I haven't even scratched the surface with most of the products I had over the years, 80s, 90s, 00s, 10s, to current / last decade of gear.
I do like where we are now the most though, the variation and quality of product is the best it has ever been.
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The luxury of being an adult with money to get whatever I want outweighs the kid who skated whatever he could get back then, but I also wonder how much harder (or easier) people went on their gear back then, be it pre teens, then teens, then early adult to now older adult life and skateboarding accordingly.
Boards lasted way longer in the 80s purely because most of us didn't do the sort of things we were trying in the 90s, but also because they were made better too. 90s boards were not something I really want to think about - some lasted, most didn't from what I recall. How long depended on what was tried, but learning flip tricks meant boards had a very limited life.
Trucks also had mixed quality, but I do think they still lasted longer than anything else, as was the way, kingpins and bushings problems aside, bushings just being way harder in general, or at least trucks just not having the same amount of ease of turn as modern trucks do now. Kingpins broke and were easily replaced as they were not pressed into the baseplate, just a hex head sitting in there. Don't recall a lot of issues with axle slip, but I know there were some.
Wheels were a funny one for me - often skating a set of wheels down to almost nothing and loving street stuff, then getting new wheels and skating parks and transition for a while a lot more because they were just too big to easily slide curbs like I did on the older way smaller wheels, so it cycled around a bit in the mid to late 90s. Never really recall flatspot issues, even though I know I did have some dramas now and then, but again I don't recall the good well known brand names until later in the 00s.
I still have some of the old parts, or even some old completes from various eras and some things still skate well, but other things leave me thinking "What were we doing?" or "How could we skate this stuff back then?" maybe more so with how tight the trucks were, or the concave or shape of boards, but also thinking that was 20+ years ago, 30+ for some things, even 40+ for a few things, so from that perspective, everything has come such a long way, it is hard to even contemplate going back to old product now for a lot of things.
Last thing, not part of the original question, but shoes also played a huge part of everything through that entire time. Some shoes over the years have been so thin and basically a rubber pad under foot and almost nothing more, whereas other shoes got so tech that they had almost nothing in common with original skateboard shoes, so depending on what era you were used to, some people swear by some shoes and others swear by a totally different type of shoe, eg Osiris D3 vs Vans Era vs Converse all star vs Airwalk 540 and on and on.
Sure could go on about it a lot more, but I will leave it at that, even though I feel like I haven't even scratched the surface with most of the products I had over the years, 80s, 90s, 00s, 10s, to current / last decade of gear.
I do like where we are now the most though, the variation and quality of product is the best it has ever been.
How often did you slide your wheels down down to almost nothing? And how long did they last? Was there anything in the 80s or 90s that were like F4S?
Cany anyone speak on the quality of Bones and Spitfire on the time?
Seems like people like OJs back then. Did they flatspot? Did they slide well/easily? Did they chunk?
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There was a point where all the axles slipped so bad that tracker just made a truck with a free-floating axle. I was dumb enough to buy them, probably 92-93. I even bought the ones with E-clips instead of actual nuts to hold them on. Big pants small wheels wasn't the only dumb thing we were doing back then. ::)
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How often did you slide your wheels down down to almost nothing? And how long did they last? Was there anything in the 80s or 90s that were like F4S?
Cany anyone speak on the quality of Bones and Spitfire on the time?
Seems like people like OJs back then. Did they flatspot? Did they slide well/easily? Did they chunk?
The older (bigger and softer) wheels didn't seem to flatspot anywhere near as much as the newer (smaller and harder) wheels coming from the 80s to the 90s and 00s, so I guess something changed there, or just the fact that softer wheels are way less likely to flatspot on anything. Maybe even more so the newer tech tricks causing more issues, eg blunt and nose blunt slides seemed to always end up with some issues when getting them for anything more than a short distance.
As to how long they lasted, it was maybe a lot longer than now, but I think that also comes down to how much we skated and if or when we needed to replace wheels as a last resort, compared to now, wearing wheels down a couple of mm and swapping them out because I can, or because I have another half a dozen sets of the same ready to go whenever I feel like setting up new wheels. Back then, there were no spare sets and very limited anything else, at least for myself and friends who I skated with. We usually bought second hand or hand me downs from older skaters, so sometimes never even knew what brand or any other info, just that they were bigger than what we had on. I remember even skating a set that had solid flatspots just because they were bigger than what I had and they came from someone who we all looked up to, but maybe that was me being more young and foolish than anything else.
There were no wheels at all like current options back then, even though some did come and go, fancy superthane or other technologically advanced formulas or names, but really I keep thinking it was such a different market too, way less information about duro options, more about whatever was available at the time.
Spitfire was called other names like shitfire by some people because they said they sucked, but they still kept riding them. Bones was not really a thing, more so Powell as a brand and they really only made softer wheels for the longest time, or at least that is what comes to mind, but the smaller harder Powell wheels did skate well enough, but did still flatspot too coming out of the 90s with sets I picked up in more recent years of old stock.
OJs were big and soft, or at least some seemed more that way, just like Powell wheels, but I am sure there were smaller and harder sets going round - I just don't recall seeing any.
It really was such a whole different world, almost primitive in the technology and parts we had compared to now, but we made do and kept going, so thinking back, we really didn't know any different, so that whatever we got was it and we skated it til it was done, squeezed the last drop out of everything, so to speak.
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I still have a set of Trackers with the plastic baseplate and the axles are horribly uneven from slipping.
Being a kid with no money I tended to take it easy on my gear, if that was even possible.
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There was a point where all the axles slipped so bad that tracker just made a truck with a free-floating axle. I was dumb enough to buy them, probably 92-93. I even bought the ones with E-clips instead of actual nuts to hold them on. Big pants small wheels wasn't the only dumb thing we were doing back then. ::)
Indys were the worst, having to smack your truck every few mintues was fucking horrible. Trackers sucked and Gullwings were heavy (until the graphite ones, and the built in riser street shadows <- these kicked ass. Had that gullwing groove, a plastic/composite plate so it was light but the plates was also tall so no need for risers) and turned great: https://www.ebay.com/itm/395531673586?_nkw=Vintage+1980%E2%80%99s+Gullwing+Street+Shadow&itmmeta=01J66576JEQJTB56EFQN3TGD40&hash=item5c17865ff2:g:ULcAAOSw0lNmk6AT&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAABAHoV3kP08IDx%2BKZ9MfhVJKlALMx3G8dj%2Fg9miaTARwK18LXwyXOw%2B%2FWcC7MUNLMHO3kvSJOc%2B6G%2Fafotf1j65CKHl5UGQsuaEVZG551QJlfRTvx9joqmPzGEHw3F1ra9Nae%2F6eODGud7odrkofPT1g4cZy7ONemhuzq8Rgwyuj%2Be8gZjd3ZzdNChFqsvFRblMLXOf%2BRsTUgQBIicl9flYaxDjC%2BHpGmTWoS%2BW3AOCywcPrr76fDu2ftLuIBz7uqWk8erBhqA3YThYoxdkg%2FZBy5OdJBxLLrRV3cQqTEsEWuNLSbY04aUSMFR5VYEiR41Nks1%2FKH6%2FmesZMJJ5hDPWp8%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR6bpnMWxZA
You had Swiss (still pricey back then), NMB (shit) or GMNs (best aside from Swiss). Sealed Metal shields, you rode them until they fell off.
Grip was grip, didn't matter. No perforations, this grit, that grit it was chunky af too.
Bolts were long, pan head too (shudder) and broke all the damn time until Shorty's changed the game. Lots of copper colored bolts too early on.
Kingpins broke all the damn time too once we started jumping down shit. Grind clearance wasn't even a consideration, you didn't worry about it you just barged and ground that shit down.
For the most part, all wheels sucked until the advent of 'street wheels' small at 55mm by yesteryear's standards (when most ran 60+) Mini cubics and shit all asymetrical too...ugh...it wasn't until Slimballs, Alva Rock IIs, Vision Blurrs and shit for symmetrical wheel, then the OG OG spits hit the scene ('87)...bet no one else remembers how they color coded their duros back then.
Bushings seemed to last (again, the regulations hit and they started splitting/crumbling).
Decks chipped waaaaaaay more and super easily...vert designs on street didn't take impact well.
Thank the maker for New Deal changing the game...shame the were reboot under dwindle and didn't make a full comeback.
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66mm 95a California Pro wheels
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There was a point where all the axles slipped so bad that tracker just made a truck with a free-floating axle. I was dumb enough to buy them, probably 92-93. I even bought the ones with E-clips instead of actual nuts to hold them on. Big pants small wheels wasn't the only dumb thing we were doing back then. ::)
I recall football shape and small wheels had us learning all kinds of flip tricks! Until the board snapped from any trick off the sidewalk
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Kingpins use to snap all the time! It was such a regular occurrence. Thunder, venture, krux , destructo,silver, Indy, I broke em all. Then it sort of stopped happening. I haven’t broken a king pin since like 2012. I do wonder what changed.
Rodney Mullen switched us over to grade 8 steel button head instead of grade 5 hex head when he designed the first Tensor truck.
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After wheels got so small that the axles stuck out, we spent half the '90s bashing trucks against the sidewalk. A friend of mine was almost arrested because the cop thought he was going on some sort of rampage (albeit, going ape shit on a very specific part of the skateboard). This must have looked strange to the general public, but trucks sure turned better when no one cared about kingpin clearance.
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Bump
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On kingpins, I also think how tightly they are set now ie. no vibration makes a huge difference and also possibly why some of the new inverted kp’s come loose…..
Axels still slip but I don’t think it’s like it used to be.
I recall delams a lot more, also you had so much shit on your board it rattled a lot.
Fully screened boards was better, and I like to think the bearings were better. That’s the only things I can think of….
Maybe stickers too….
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Maybe more fashion over function but in the 00s to maybe early 10s people really liked skinny wheels and wanted them especially hard. Core wheels too and I remember autobahn being pretty popular. Maybe the skinnyness +hardness of wheels contributed to how bad they seemed to flatspot in my memory.
People were also really obsessed with having very white wheels. People would keep wheels in the freezer to make them harder and out of sunlight to keep them from turning yellow.
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Maybe more fashion over function but in the 00s to maybe early 10s people really liked skinny wheels and wanted them especially hard. Core wheels too and I remember autobahn being pretty popular. Maybe the skinnyness +hardness of wheels contributed to how bad they seemed to flatspot in my memory.
People were also really obsessed with having very white wheels. People would keep wheels in the freezer to make them harder and out of sunlight to keep them from turning yellow.
I remember that ! I had some 48 element wheels graphic in so white shows only . Those were skinny as! And whiter than a mothafucka too
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Maybe more fashion over function but in the 00s to maybe early 10s people really liked skinny wheels and wanted them especially hard. Core wheels too and I remember autobahn being pretty popular. Maybe the skinnyness +hardness of wheels contributed to how bad they seemed to flatspot in my memory.
People were also really obsessed with having very white wheels. People would keep wheels in the freezer to make them harder and out of sunlight to keep them from turning yellow.
Surely on the east coast and Midwest it would be hard to run those types of wheels? I mean even in some spots of California it's hard to run anything smaller than like a 54 if you want speed and not have to push every 5 seconds. But I like big wheels, I skate 58mm conical full spitfires that I have dyed black and white in a swilrl pattern.
Also never understood the white wheels thing, always loved the color of the beige/brown color of wheels.
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On kingpins, I also think how tightly they are set now ie. no vibration makes a huge difference and also possibly why some of the new inverted kp’s come loose…..
Axels still slip but I don’t think it’s like it used to be.
I recall delams a lot more, also you had so much shit on your board it rattled a lot.
Fully screened boards was better, and I like to think the bearings were better. That’s the only things I can think of….
Maybe stickers too….
Are there any specific reasons you think bearings were better? I'm curious.
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Has anyone noticed that boards chip way less now than in the 2000s? Ive thought it could be because i skate less gaps these days, or the more full kicks, but i swear the wood/glue quality has improved. Could just be me though
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Only took 35 years for the industry to realize that inverted kingpins make sense. 25 more and we will have decks made of more quality materials than wood.
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I wonder what the shapes of the boards were like over the years.. For example, I have the impression that in the years 2005 to 2010 (my first years of skating), the boards looked like be much shorter in length and I have the impression that the wb 14 was much more present ? No ?
Today the standard is 14.25 and many more long boards than short boards.
Curious to know the main “fashionable” shape of each board through each year..
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Only took 35 years for the industry to realize that inverted kingpins make sense. 25 more and we will have decks made of more quality materials than wood.
I think the lowered KP makes more sense than inverting it. Sure, it makes it easier to lock feeble/smith out the gate, but so what? They still come loose as hell and are nowhere near the ability to hold in place the life of the truck like their non-inverted counterparts. To the wood comment, it would need to be equally sustainable.
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Kingpins use to snap all the time! It was such a regular occurrence. Thunder, venture, krux , destructo,silver, Indy, I broke em all. Then it sort of stopped happening. I haven’t broken a king pin since like 2012. I do wonder what changed.
Rodney Mullen switched us over to grade 8 steel button head instead of grade 5 hex head when he designed the first Tensor truck.
Interesting! Was this in an ad? Is there any documentation? ad, interview, etc. I believe that this would be true. I just hate that when there's a subtle industry change on the back end, there's never much of a record.
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Has anyone noticed that boards chip way less now than in the 2000s? Ive thought it could be because i skate less gaps these days, or the more full kicks, but i swear the wood/glue quality has improved. Could just be me though
I have noticed this about BBS and DSM manufactured boards but have also had oldschool type chipping from other manufacturers still in modern times.
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Kingpins use to snap all the time! It was such a regular occurrence. Thunder, venture, krux , destructo,silver, Indy, I broke em all. Then it sort of stopped happening. I haven’t broken a king pin since like 2012. I do wonder what changed.
Rodney Mullen switched us over to grade 8 steel button head instead of grade 5 hex head when he designed the first Tensor truck.
Interesting! Was this in an ad? Is there any documentation? ad, interview, etc. I believe that this would be true. I just hate that when there's a subtle industry change on the back end, there's never much of a record.
I have an ad burned into my brain about them using grade 8 kingpins in Tensors as a feature. They even showed you how to check the grade of the bolt by looking at the bolt head and looking at the lines.
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Maybe more fashion over function but in the 00s to maybe early 10s people really liked skinny wheels and wanted them especially hard. Core wheels too and I remember autobahn being pretty popular. Maybe the skinnyness +hardness of wheels contributed to how bad they seemed to flatspot in my memory.
People were also really obsessed with having very white wheels. People would keep wheels in the freezer to make them harder and out of sunlight to keep them from turning yellow.
Surely on the east coast and Midwest it would be hard to run those types of wheels? I mean even in some spots of California it's hard to run anything smaller than like a 54 if you want speed and not have to push every 5 seconds. But I like big wheels, I skate 58mm conical full spitfires that I have dyed black and white in a swilrl pattern.
Also never understood the white wheels thing, always loved the color of the beige/brown color of wheels.
You could still get the skinny wheels in big sizes and there was still stuff like spitfire classics and bigheads around. I guess people from those areas eventually won because I don't think spitfire even makes a thin wheel anymore.
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Kingpins use to snap all the time! It was such a regular occurrence. Thunder, venture, krux , destructo,silver, Indy, I broke em all. Then it sort of stopped happening. I haven’t broken a king pin since like 2012. I do wonder what changed.
Rodney Mullen switched us over to grade 8 steel button head instead of grade 5 hex head when he designed the first Tensor truck.
Interesting! Was this in an ad? Is there any documentation? ad, interview, etc. I believe that this would be true. I just hate that when there's a subtle industry change on the back end, there's never much of a record.
I have an ad burned into my brain about them using grade 8 kingpins in Tensors as a feature. They even showed you how to check the grade of the bolt by looking at the bolt head and looking at the lines.
Tensors may have been first but other brands also swapped and their shit still snapped. Maybe kingpins just snap less on 7.5 lows that are specifically made to not turn tho.
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Maybe more fashion over function but in the 00s to maybe early 10s people really liked skinny wheels and wanted them especially hard. Core wheels too and I remember autobahn being pretty popular. Maybe the skinnyness +hardness of wheels contributed to how bad they seemed to flatspot in my memory.
People were also really obsessed with having very white wheels. People would keep wheels in the freezer to make them harder and out of sunlight to keep them from turning yellow.
Surely on the east coast and Midwest it would be hard to run those types of wheels? I mean even in some spots of California it's hard to run anything smaller than like a 54 if you want speed and not have to push every 5 seconds. But I like big wheels, I skate 58mm conical full spitfires that I have dyed black and white in a swilrl pattern.
Also never understood the white wheels thing, always loved the color of the beige/brown color of wheels.
I think they had the classic slim for a Reynolds pro wheel like 10 years ago, and the radial slim (do they even make those anymore?)
What wheels has spitfire discontinued? I feel like I don't see tablets anymore. Come to think of it haven't heard anything about the lock ins for a minute.
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Maybe more fashion over function but in the 00s to maybe early 10s people really liked skinny wheels and wanted them especially hard. Core wheels too and I remember autobahn being pretty popular. Maybe the skinnyness +hardness of wheels contributed to how bad they seemed to flatspot in my memory.
People were also really obsessed with having very white wheels. People would keep wheels in the freezer to make them harder and out of sunlight to keep them from turning yellow.
Surely on the east coast and Midwest it would be hard to run those types of wheels? I mean even in some spots of California it's hard to run anything smaller than like a 54 if you want speed and not have to push every 5 seconds. But I like big wheels, I skate 58mm conical full spitfires that I have dyed black and white in a swilrl pattern.
Also never understood the white wheels thing, always loved the color of the beige/brown color of wheels.
What wheels has spitfire discontinued? I feel like I don't see tablets anymore. Come to think of it haven't heard anything about the lock ins for a minute.
You can check their current shapes on their site, as well as pretty much all options in size, measurements, etc.
Not all sizes are available, but at least it is good to look at and compare.
https://www.spitfirewheels.com/
https://www.spitfirewheels.com/wheel-shapes/
Same with Bones wheels, or OJ wheels too - always interesting checking their products, info, pics, etc.
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I remember board snap on kicks/ tail
And venture kingpins snap. Saying that though, I loved my old featherlites and snap boards
My Pudwill ventures have never snapped and I've beenk skating them consistently for nearly a decade. Then again I don't ollie, or flip my board. I actually don't know where it is.
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The old 80s urethane was killer
But they had to change it because of EPA regulations or something
Just now getting back into some really good formulas today
Kingpins used to break all the time
That could've partially been due to running super tight trucks and/or skating in cold weather
The aluminum on trucks used to be softer, so the grind felt real nice. But I would crack hangers in half, get axle slip, bend axles, etc
In '92 or so Skate Werks, Shorty's, etc started pushing counter-sunk bolts vs the truss-head bolts that were the standard previously
Also in '92 the bolt pattern shrunk for room for nose and tail slides
Not exactly sure when the nylon cages in bearings became standard
But moving on from the metal cages was good. Shit I had some purple FKD bearings back in the day that had metal cages, they were ass
I think hollow, forged, titanium, etc trucks aren't super necessary, but people like them. I definitely prefer standards for the feel and weight
The hollow-core, dual duro wheel crap never stuck
Slicks didn't really stick(lol) around but they're still available here and there
The axle clips instead of nuts definitely didn't stick
I think the best advancement by far, is the powell flight decks. It's fucking great knowing I'm not going to ever break my board on the session, and they don't feel like shit like the old "tech" boards felt (libtech, Santa cruz, etc)
So idk
The truck alloy is harder and stronger
The bearings are better
Wheels are finally good again
Not a whole lot you can do to a skateboard to make it "better" but I wholeheartedly fuck with flight decks, saves me money and saves the session
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I wonder what the shapes of the boards were like over the years.. For example, I have the impression that in the years 2005 to 2010 (my first years of skating), the boards looked like be much shorter in length and I have the impression that the wb 14 was much more present ? No ?
Today the standard is 14.25 and many more long boards than short boards.
Curious to know the main “fashionable” shape of each board through each year..
Board length is something overlooked in the "crazy how small boards were in the 90s" shop talk haha Lengths also got about an inch and a half shorter as well when widths dropped to 7.5. People only trip on the width. Can anyone share their exp? I didn't start skating till around 2000 and just have access to the internet for my 90s hot takes :-X :-X
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I wonder what the shapes of the boards were like over the years.. For example, I have the impression that in the years 2005 to 2010 (my first years of skating), the boards looked like be much shorter in length and I have the impression that the wb 14 was much more present ? No ?
Today the standard is 14.25 and many more long boards than short boards.
Curious to know the main “fashionable” shape of each board through each year..
Board length is something overlooked in the "crazy how small boards were in the 90s" shop talk haha Lengths also got about an inch and a half shorter as well when widths dropped to 7.5. People only trip on the width. Can anyone share their exp? I didn't start skating till around 2000 and just have access to the internet for my 90s hot takes :-X :-X
I think it was all relative to the board brands and what they were putting out.
A few examples, from boards I have from that time:
1. My 1992 The Firm board is about 9 at the widest point, 32 long with a 14.0 wheelbase.
2. A 1995 World Industries 7.6 with a 14.0 wb and 31.4 length, so very flat and kicks start half way from the bolts to the end of the board, which is weird.
3. A 1998 Real 8.25 with a 14.25 wb and 32 length, also very flat, way more normal kicks starting just nicely past the bolt holes.
Looking over catalogs of various big name boards at the time, things were a little more on the smaller board, shorter wheelbases and lengths, but some were still quite long too, eg a DLX catalog from 1995 / 1997 had a varied mix of different sizes and shapes.
https://archive.org/details/deluxe-distribution-1995
More of the well known catalogs like CCS had a bit more "middle of the road" type of board shapes, from the ones I saw, with boards mostly in the 7 range, rather than 8 and above, as a point of reference.
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Here’s some Think, Real, and Stereo boards from '93 all hovering around 31” There’s a Dan Drehobl there at 30” !!
https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgjcKZ2e3ZPByprZwosWnygi-gr_bNH0_Mtme47eMoy0JOjvPB_nYpckuFphKDPfIpzJoLDR2MH8gb2p21d5hKMP8Lseht2F7t3LZWEFY5X95lIvavmoz8yeWI9OfvIko2Q_mUXlyWsnAY/s1600/ccs199304.jpg
So maybe '93 is when boards were smallest? Based off some of those CCS catalogs. Here's another link I grabbed from another thread from '94 where the boards are mostly 31.5"
https://vertisdead.blogspot.com/2016/09/california-cheap-skates-1994.html?m=1
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Here’s some Think, Real, and Stereo boards from '93 all hovering around 31” There’s a Dan Drehobl there at 30” !!
https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgjcKZ2e3ZPByprZwosWnygi-gr_bNH0_Mtme47eMoy0JOjvPB_nYpckuFphKDPfIpzJoLDR2MH8gb2p21d5hKMP8Lseht2F7t3LZWEFY5X95lIvavmoz8yeWI9OfvIko2Q_mUXlyWsnAY/s1600/ccs199304.jpg
So maybe '93 is when boards were smallest? Based off some of those CCS catalogs. Here's another link I grabbed from another thread from '94 where the boards are mostly 31.5"
https://vertisdead.blogspot.com/2016/09/california-cheap-skates-1994.html?m=1
in the 94 catalog there's a 7.5 x 32 madcircle and a 7.38 x 32 new deal, i'd love to see a real photo of a board like that
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i am curious what was the first brand to do skateboard deck rails
I see Rib Bones by Powell Peralta is the early one that seems to have taken over the market etc.
maybe if i look back in old thrashers i can see the first ads when they came out
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i am curious what was the first brand to do skateboard deck rails
I see Rib Bones by Powell Peralta is the early one that seems to have taken over the market etc.
maybe if i look back in old thrashers i can see the first ads when they came out
Paul schmitt as far as I know
Their first model was wood
Then switched to polyethylene
Lots of people made their own wooden ones
People seem to have started using rails around like, '77
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My first rails were Schmitt Stix.
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This is the oldest photo I could find of anyone riding rails
https://skateboardinghalloffame.org/skateboarder-magazines-searchable/
go to January 1978, page 80
Jim Martino on a Z Flex board. Not sure if that is rails or that is part of the board?
Seems like it really didn't take off til 1979 at the earliest, and even then its pretty rare
https://skateboardinghalloffame.org/shof-2024/per-viking/
Per Viking, on the cover of skateboarder October 1979. I couldnt find any magazines to serach through, but i found some early 1979 ones and still dont see any ads for rails and i didnt see any more photos of any.
In the first thrasher 1981, they are already commonplace and everywhere. didnt see any ads for them still though.
i found lots of text citing there were wooden rails, just couldnt find any photos of them
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1990 slick bottom
1995 Santa Cruz nuwood
1998 libtech, aircraft, Lars Tetons, probably more
2000 bones hardcore bearings and stf
2001 Santa Cruz powerlite
2016 flight decks
2024 Dbx
Not sure about dates
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some other random stuff that comes to mind;
-What brand did the first concaved boards? was it world?
-Indy 1978, and then the Stage 7 which moved the holes to the new closer together configuration that we use now in 1993
-we know the first deck with a nose shaped like tail was Mike V barnyard, also Vision "Double Snub". were these twin kick as well I wonder?
-F4 ~2012 important to note
-bones swiss came out in 1981
-Bones STF wheels came out in 2005
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1990 slick bottom
1995 Santa Cruz nuwood
1998 libtech, aircraft, Lars Tetons, probably more
2000 bones hardcore bearings and stf
2001 Santa Cruz powerlite
2016 flight decks
2024 Dbx
Not sure about dates
I'm not even going to attempt to ballpark all the years.
bonite
mongoose, and some other brand did aluminium decks
Element/PSSTIX fiberlight
Habitat Hemplight
Watson/Tumyeto fiberlam
Birdhouse Black six
Revolution Rev deck, 100% carbon
Dwindles Amory ply. eternal life, and then impact
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some other random stuff that comes to mind;
-What brand did the first concaved boards? was it world?
-Indy 1978, and then the Stage 7 which moved the holes to the new closer together configuration that we use now in 1993
-we know the first deck with a nose shaped like tail was Mike V barnyard, also Vision "Double Snub". were these twin kick as well I wonder?
-F4 ~2012 important to note
-bones swiss came out in 1981
-Bones STF wheels came out in 2005
I’m not sure of any dates but there is no way World was the first to make concaved decks. Every pro style deck I had in the 80’s had some level of concave. I remember Santa Cruz “Cruise Missile II” concave or whatever they called it was incredible when I first got one of those.
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Yeah Santa Cruz "bevel" in '79 as far as I know, also the dogtown triplane in the same year
I heard the first people riding concave were the dogtown guys, using warped pieces of hardwood to make some boards
Chuck hultz's double vision board was modified to make the barnyard, vision was first technically. The snub version was smaller, and the barnyard doesn't have the full-length nose
Then the powell per welinder "Nordic sperm" 8.75 twin tail in 1990
This board is important too (1988)
(https://ids.si.edu/ids/deliveryService?id=NMAH-ET2014-41684&max_w=800)
Probably the first commercially produced with the upturned, longer nose
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-Indy 1978, and then the Stage 7 which moved the holes to the new closer together configuration that we use now in 1993
I think Venture were the first to actually have six hole baseplates, closely followed by other brands, but yes around 1993 is the first year more commonly credited with the change. When you think about it, Ermico was the place in SF where Indy, Thunder and Venture were all being made, so I think as soon as one truck brand got six hole baseplates, the others would follow soon enough.
Prior to that people were drilling in their boards and trucks from 1990 I think someone had said in an interview about it, when being able to slide on the ends of your board became very popular, but as with anything from way back then, I don't think there was any one specific person or place that it was happening first, but just more due to the evolution of skateboarding and people trying different tricks all over the place.
Always funny what AI searches come up with these days:
Independent Truck Co. is widely recognized as the company that popularized the standard 6-hole baseplate design.
While skaters were drilling custom holes in the late 1980s to prevent hardware damage, Independent cemented this design in the early 1990s (around 1992-1993) to allow for both "old school" and "new school" mounting patterns, a feature that persists in their 159, 169 and 215 models.
Key Details on the Development:
The Trendsetter: Venture Trucks is also cited in some historical accounts, with Greg Carroll claiming to have been the first to make the 6-hole change in 1992 to accommodate ledge skating and prevent hardware damage.
The Evolution: Independent moved to a 6-hole baseplate during their Stage VII (1993) era to reduce bolt wear.
Purpose: The 6-hole design was introduced to allow skaters to switch between old-school (further apart) and new-school (closer together) mounting patterns on their decks.
* I am sure there was a better one of different truck baseplates, but this is a good one too:
https://www.instagram.com/kristiansvitak/p/CztO3I1uZb9/
https://www.instagram.com/p/CztO3I1uZb9/?img_index=1
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I feel like mid 80s to 90 or so was a key period for equipment evolution.
As mentioned SC speedwheels were untouchable. To this day, I don't think we've had urethane as good.
Indy stage 5s. The first Indys with hollow hanger bodies (not axles).
Cruise missile I and II concaves are still a mind-melter to stand on.
Then slicks. Those early slicks were pretty great.
Bu 92 we were starting to go into equipment de-volution. Probably due to intentional cost-cutting measures. Shit was really disposable, while skateboarding was dead. Wheels went to crap. Small and flat spot prone. Decks mushed out and snapped easy with the mellower concaves and crappy wood. And trucks stayed bulky and heavy even with tiny decks and wheels. Venture featherlites were a notable and decent exception.
Wasn't until mid to late 90s that things shaped up again. And it look a long long time for wheels to get up to standard. Bones SPF/ STF led the way with urethane innovation. Old George is still killing it on that front. And I say that as a die hard Spitfire F4 rider....
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1990 slick bottom
1995 Santa Cruz nuwood
1998 libtech, aircraft, Lars Tetons, probably more
2000 bones hardcore bearings and stf
2001 Santa Cruz powerlite
2016 flight decks
2024 Dbx
Not sure about dates
I'm not even going to attempt to ballpark all the years.
bonite
mongoose, and some other brand did aluminium decks
Element/PSSTIX fiberlight
Habitat Hemplight
Watson/Tumyeto fiberlam
Birdhouse Black six
Revolution Rev deck, 100% carbon
Dwindles Amory ply. eternal life, and then impact
Early 90s Paul Schmitt worked with Kris markovich to make the modern molds for element decks. Not sure the name
2006 element helium
Kape recycled plastic decks
2000s Chapman boards with replaceable tops for razor tail and less chipping.
Flip new wave
Chocolate pop secret
Maybe I’m just writing gimmics now
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Oh!
I just remembered, small wood shop called legend that currently makes Hstreet and some of the everybody skates decks.
They make one with rails pressed into the wood
https://www.instagram.com/p/CC6Rs14FqGD/?img_index=1&igsh=cGJwNGY1bGZqODli
They also make one with extra ply in the tail so the last longer.
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I can't believe we are still trying to reinvent the wheel with decks. Seeing a featherlight deck my friend was skating I wasn't thrilled then and still not thrilled now. I think dwindle was the start and manufactures just keep throwing shit at the pot. Even when all the trucks started getting hollowed out. I remember thinking, what's next? The fuckin hardware? Welp, thanks ace! Ace probably wasn't the first but I remember googling it and ace popped up with the hollow hardware. Now with the crailtap pop secrets, and the basalt decks from deluxe. Gimmicks!
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-Indy 1978, and then the Stage 7 which moved the holes to the new closer together configuration that we use now in 1993
For sure Venture was the first in 92
Though I've seen some catalogs from late 92 where stage 6 indys started to be called 146 instead of 149, I think to allude to the 6-hole baseplates. And then they released the 8 inch indys(136) in 93. And yeah them all being made in the same place, for sure makes sense how fast the others would get it too. Venture had the first truck designed straight up for street skating as far as I know
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I wonder what the shapes of the boards were like over the years.. For example, I have the impression that in the years 2005 to 2010 (my first years of skating), the boards looked like be much shorter in length and I have the impression that the wb 14 was much more present ? No ?
Today the standard is 14.25 and many more long boards than short boards.
Curious to know the main “fashionable” shape of each board through each year..
Revisiting an old question that never got fully fleshed out.
In early and mid '80s, decks had huge wheelbases. 15" to 16.25". Viewed in the context of history, this isn't too surprising. Vert was the main game, and, well, you want a bigger, more stable wheelbase for vert. The per se "street" deck wasn't really it's own distinct thing yet, and all of the "street" boards that did exist were based-off vert boards. For example, the first Vision Mark Gonzales deck had a 16.25" wb. Early Natas decks had a 15.5" wb. And I can't stress this one enough, NO ONE considered wheelbase as "thing" back then.
Someone already posted it, but it also can't be stressed how much of a game changer that Chris Miller deck was. And it's kind of wild to think a vert skater came-up with an innovation that would have more impact in the streets (e.g. an up-turned nose--Oddly, Rodney was kind of tuned-in to this already, but he didn't run with it. He often did tricks off the nose of his freestyle board (e.g. board backwards), because he realized the tail (when acting as the "nose") could be used as a "hook" to help get more board control and lift). People FREAKED when they first saw that Chris Miller deck, because it was it look SO WEIRD. But then they skated it, and the light went on.
I can't remember when, but very late 80s / very early 90s is when double-drilled decks started coming out (e.g. so you could make longer/shorter nose/wheelbase). I think this was originally just so people could have a longer nose, but a by-product of this, was that wheelbase started to become part of the collective consciousness, because people realized when they set a board to a "bigger nose," that it became easier for other things. Why? Shorter wheelbase. During this period, things were all over the place with wheelbase lengths.
Late 1992 into early 1993 is when everything dramatically changed. Wheelbases around then went down to 14" (with some at like 13.75, too), and hovered there for quite awhile. I should also mention tail nose/tail lengths were shorter during this period, too. The average tail length was like 6", with some being like 5.8, too. I think, historically, this makes some sense. Boards were super flat and low to the ground. If you have a very low, flat board, and long tail, you're going to have a serious pop problem. So, lengths of kicks were shorter to compensate for this. I was doing a lot b/s tailslides then, and I hated the shorter tails, because I wanted more tail to slide on. I was also working at a shop then, and I refused to ride any deck that had a tail under 6"...I distinctly remember measuring the tail of every board I got to assure it was at least 6" long...and sometimes it wasn't easy to find one (I was riding a lot of Alien decks then). Eventually, when wheels started getting bigger again, tails also started getting longer (again), too. It's worth pointing out that with shorter wheelbases, and shorter kicks, the overall lengths of the decks were much shorter, too.
In terms of popular "shapes" through the years, a great way to see this, is too look at www.Artofskateboarding.com. Do a board/price search based off a given pro (that has been around for awhile), and you can see how their deck shapes evolved with time. Caballero and Mike V. are actually two really good ones to use, because they have both been around forever, and you can really see the evolution of deck shapes in one place/person, from 1980 to the present.
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I feel like mid 80s to 90 or so was a key period for equipment evolution.
As mentioned SC speedwheels were untouchable. To this day, I don't think we've had urethane as good.
NHS must still have the formula, maybe its too expensive to be worth making?
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My personal favs were OJ Freezstreets.
I have a set. 57mm/92a.
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My personal favs were OJ Freezstreets.
I have a set. 57mm/92a.
Amazing. I think we may have discussed this before.... ::) 95a was my preferred duro back then. Freezstreets and Teamriders.
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My personal favs were OJ Freezstreets.
I have a set. 57mm/92a.
Amazing. I think we may have discussed this before.... ::) 95a was my preferred duro back then. Freezstreets and Teamriders.
That is exactly why I still have these. I ended up with a set of 95a, and never looked back on the 92s...but never gave them away / threw them out, etc. I have them set-up on this. Stage 5 Indys, too. I occasionally ride it, but mostly it just sits in the corner and looks pretty.
And when I do ride it, I quickly stop, because it's horrible, and I'm duly astonished at the things people were able to do on boards like this.
(https://i.ibb.co/vvTZHfst/IMG-3316.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/jvp9GRP3/IMG-3317.jpg)
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So sick.
Do you roll around on those at all?
Loved the Street razors also.
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So sick.
Do you roll around on those at all?
Loved the Street razors also.
See my post above. I edited/updated it with that info right as you were posting this.
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i have skated a lot of powerll peralta re-issue boards from the 80s and most of them are completely flat, so that was why i wasn't sure when the concaved boards started happening, or at least to the extent we have now. it seems like they started with just a very minimal concave and they slowly started getting crazier and crazier, to the point somewhere we wanted to start going flatter again. it does make sense with how we have made the adjustments with our kicks over the years.
the chris miller schmitt stix - this is the first acutal pronounced nose that is more like 3-4" instead of like .5" ? lol
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i have skated a lot of powerll peralta re-issue boards from the 80s and most of them are completely flat, so that was why i wasn't sure when the concaved boards started happening, or at least to the extent we have now. it seems like they started with just a very minimal concave and they slowly started getting crazier and crazier, to the point somewhere we wanted to start going flatter again. it does make sense with how we have made the adjustments with our kicks over the years.
the chris miller schmitt stix - this is the first acutal pronounced nose that is more like 3-4" instead of like .5" ? lol
So, here is some super nerd tech shit I've always want to go real deep on, but never have. That said, I've done some cursory "research" on this. I have a theory that "pop angle" on boards has actually not changed much over the decades, but just the way that we get there has.
First, what I mean by "pop angle" is roughly the angle a board is at when the tail makes contact with the ground.
In the 80s, boards were super flat. They were also really tall. 1/2" risers, and big-ass wheels.
Early 90s, boards were also really flat, and very close to the ground...with shorter tails.
Now, we have mid-sized trucks, wheels, and kicks.
My theory is that the "pop angle" on all of these is actually pretty close to each other. I could be totally wrong, but...
The Chris Miller...I found that quote I was thinking about, it was an interview with the Ride Channel.
“My Schmitt board was famous for being the first board with an upturned nose that was long. It started that trend towards modern boards. I can't take credit for it. It was going to happen whether Schmitt did it or someone else. But the other side is that Schmitt did do it first. He came to me and said, “I have an idea for your new shape,” and it was about the mold and all that. At first, I didn’t like it aesthetically, but I was the first person to do backside lipslides on vert and I went from a G&S board with basically no nose—think about coming in from a backside lipslide, where you need a little nose to bring yourself in—to the Schmitt shape, and it was a game-changer for me. I loved that board, and we're only talking four or five inches of nose. If you look at it now, it's a tiny little nose, but then it was crazy-looking.”
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Goddamn I love this thread and Sedition is right on the money.
Also that exact guerrero is my favorite powell board by far
I was gonna come back to say the miller board was for coming back in from disasters and lipslides but they beat me to it.
Didn't he also found adio and expedition one?
That pic I posted earlier is from the Smithsonian.
I'm gonna build up one of those light blue guerrero sword boards with pizza tape, truss head bolts, 3/8" cell blocks, stage fours, rat bones, GMN bearings, and a dead Kennedys sticker! Maybe I'll paint pen something on the grip too, perhaps "if Stuart could talk, what would he say?"
Could do reissue speed wheels instead of rat bones too
Might also put a Vandals sticker on there.
Anarchy Burger!!!
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so it wasnt even meant to pop off of, really just to keep your foot better on, and lift you back in on the ramp. pretty genius actually.
i can see mullen was already doing nollie tricks in 1986 but the nose on that board looks pretty flat. the chris miller board didnt come out til 1988. it also looks quite flat but not competely. there is a top view of it on the smithsonian site.
So that barnyard board was sort of the first board to combine everything together. Was that a twin nose board technically i wonder?
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so it wasnt even meant to pop off of, really just to keep your foot better on, and lift you back in on the ramp. pretty genius actually.
i can see mullen was already doing nollie tricks in 1986 but the nose on that board looks pretty flat. the chris miller board didnt come out til 1988. it also looks quite flat but not competely. there is a top view of it on the smithsonian site.
So that barnyard board was sort of the first board to combine everything together. Was that a twin nose board technically i wonder?
There was actually a Vision doiuble-tail before both, but world was NOT ready for it yet.
Barnyard was not a twin. Nose was a bit shorter than tail.
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Loving this thread.
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In 1990-91 this was my deck shape.
https://selectskateshop.com/products/schmitt-stix-chris-miller-owlcat-mini-deck-9-5x30?srsltid=AfmBOorBssL3FEF3nOAMl7lmF7epifVCauUOel9C6FY5eOwajNiH1u4y
Learned nocomply and Ollie north on this shape.
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so it wasnt even meant to pop off of, really just to keep your foot better on, and lift you back in on the ramp. pretty genius actually.
i can see mullen was already doing nollie tricks in 1986 but the nose on that board looks pretty flat. the chris miller board didnt come out til 1988. it also looks quite flat but not competely. there is a top view of it on the smithsonian site.
So that barnyard board was sort of the first board to combine everything together. Was that a twin nose board technically i wonder?
If you go and watch old contest videos up to about 85/86 you’ll see when people did disaster type tricks they’d grab their tail and lift back in in the pig era.
Just going to drop this in here as well since I’m not sure what Miller deck you guys are talking about but Blockhead had the streetstyle in 86 that had a pretty big nose(may have been double drilled but not sure and not going digging right now) but, it was a street deck so only about 9” wide so vert guys weren’t into that at all then.
*EDIT*
Blockhead streetstyle was made in 85 and had a 4” nose and not double drilled
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If you go and watch old contest videos up to about 85/86 you’ll see when people did disaster type tricks they’d grab their tail and lift back in in the pig era.
Also one of the reasons "lappers" existed.
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Correct.
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I feel the urge to drop this photo right here,
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgSwAXMge8HuF-FY-HXnST-XDE-KMryaqCO3iBWPaMf5HYAbz4Tb4_66YMT9zHO5QrmVRYZvbhHOPe-RTgBldUe3HIPKiKip6uZ6Mk4D_ErEtW64oF9f1rBMZDXPzjcFH6YQbHmmoDnGmG9/s1600/neilnosechrome.jpg)
How fucking great is this to look at now?
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I wonder was the first one to make the nose actually longer than the tail?
In 1990 Fall CCS catalogue, it looks like all the boards still have a shorter nose than tail.
But in the 1990 Winter Catalogue there may be one board at least that has a longer nose than tail:
https://archive.org/details/ccs-1990-winter/page/n3/mode/2up
There is Jeff Kendall board on page 6 that looks like the nose is longer than the tail.
The following page has the "Double Vision" deck - likely the first twin kick board ever as you guys were saying. Looks almost exactly like Andy Anderson's board.
In 1991 there is also a "Jinx" double kick, not sure if also twin kick dimensions.
In Summer 1991 catalogue of CCS, pretty much all the boards switched from longer nose than tail.
This is a cool board i never knew about:
https://www.juliensauctions.com/en/items/2050741/tony-hawk-1991-powell-peralta-pictograph-skateboard-deck
This is almost like a Hockey Board
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I've seen that Tony hawk one before, pretty cool
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Expand Quote
I feel like mid 80s to 90 or so was a key period for equipment evolution.
As mentioned SC speedwheels were untouchable. To this day, I don't think we've had urethane as good.
NHS must still have the formula, maybe its too expensive to be worth making?
Or is it the EPA regulations? They cannot manufacture them like they used to?
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I wonder was the first one to make the nose actually longer than the tail?
In 1990 Fall CCS catalogue, it looks like all the boards still have a shorter nose than tail.
But in the 1990 Winter Catalogue there may be one board at least that has a longer nose than tail:
https://archive.org/details/ccs-1990-winter/page/n3/mode/2up
There is Jeff Kendall board on page 6 that looks like the nose is longer than the tail.
The following page has the "Double Vision" deck - likely the first twin kick board ever as you guys were saying. Looks almost exactly like Andy Anderson's board.
In 1991 there is also a "Jinx" double kick, not sure if also twin kick dimensions.
In Summer 1991 catalogue of CCS, pretty much all the boards switched from longer nose than tail.
This is a cool board i never knew about:
https://www.juliensauctions.com/en/items/2050741/tony-hawk-1991-powell-peralta-pictograph-skateboard-deck
This is almost like a Hockey Board
Not sure who actually produced the first board with longer nose than tail, but Mark Gonzales might have played a role. I read somewhere that he had drilled the front truck holes back on the board that he rode in the Honolulu mini-ramp contest in '89. In the footage you can get a glimps of the length of the nose. Way longer than on most other boards.
https://www.thrashermagazine.com/articles/videos/classics-gonz-s-hawaii-contest-run/#more-videos (https://www.thrashermagazine.com/articles/videos/classics-gonz-s-hawaii-contest-run/#more-videos)
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Expand Quote
I wonder was the first one to make the nose actually longer than the tail?
In 1990 Fall CCS catalogue, it looks like all the boards still have a shorter nose than tail.
But in the 1990 Winter Catalogue there may be one board at least that has a longer nose than tail:
https://archive.org/details/ccs-1990-winter/page/n3/mode/2up
There is Jeff Kendall board on page 6 that looks like the nose is longer than the tail.
The following page has the "Double Vision" deck - likely the first twin kick board ever as you guys were saying. Looks almost exactly like Andy Anderson's board.
In 1991 there is also a "Jinx" double kick, not sure if also twin kick dimensions.
In Summer 1991 catalogue of CCS, pretty much all the boards switched from longer nose than tail.
This is a cool board i never knew about:
https://www.juliensauctions.com/en/items/2050741/tony-hawk-1991-powell-peralta-pictograph-skateboard-deck
This is almost like a Hockey Board
Not sure who actually produced the first board with longer nose than tail, but Mark Gonzales might have played a role. I read somewhere that he had drilled the front truck holes back on the board that he rode in the Honolulu mini-ramp contest in '89. In the footage you can get a glimps of the length of the nose. Way longer than on most other boards.
https://www.thrashermagazine.com/articles/videos/classics-gonz-s-hawaii-contest-run/#more-videos (https://www.thrashermagazine.com/articles/videos/classics-gonz-s-hawaii-contest-run/#more-videos)
I was so jealous my friend copped this before me. We had a rule, no two of the same decks in the posse.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRIhyYfqPp7-ulJbcF2s5ULhPn1_kB6SbZr9w&s)
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Here’s some Think, Real, and Stereo boards from '93 all hovering around 31” There’s a Dan Drehobl there at 30” !!
https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgjcKZ2e3ZPByprZwosWnygi-gr_bNH0_Mtme47eMoy0JOjvPB_nYpckuFphKDPfIpzJoLDR2MH8gb2p21d5hKMP8Lseht2F7t3LZWEFY5X95lIvavmoz8yeWI9OfvIko2Q_mUXlyWsnAY/s1600/ccs199304.jpg
So maybe '93 is when boards were smallest? Based off some of those CCS catalogs. Here's another link I grabbed from another thread from '94 where the boards are mostly 31.5"
https://vertisdead.blogspot.com/2016/09/california-cheap-skates-1994.html?m=1
These are incredible. I think the best skating I've ever done in my life was on 7.62s now that I think about it. The 7.75 was my old reliable for ages but that was later on. A Neighborhood at 7.38x30.88 how lengthy, Sonic 7.25x30.75, a CCS 7.31x30.25, Foundation board at a slightly wider (supposedly) 7.38x30.25 and another at a whopping 7.25x30.25!
I would enthusiastically set up all of those right now! I certainly remember the sub 7.5 Alien boards, I had several. I also remember them snapping. The 7.62 all the way up to 7.75 was perfect for me. Well back then anyway. At some point in my life my bag of flip tricks sprung a leak.
A 7.3 sounds so interesting. A gateway drug to freestyle boards? Oh god. Instead of the old guy skating transition and curbs am I going to be in the parking lot corner doing rail stands?
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Expand Quote
Here’s some Think, Real, and Stereo boards from '93 all hovering around 31” There’s a Dan Drehobl there at 30” !!
https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgjcKZ2e3ZPByprZwosWnygi-gr_bNH0_Mtme47eMoy0JOjvPB_nYpckuFphKDPfIpzJoLDR2MH8gb2p21d5hKMP8Lseht2F7t3LZWEFY5X95lIvavmoz8yeWI9OfvIko2Q_mUXlyWsnAY/s1600/ccs199304.jpg
So maybe '93 is when boards were smallest? Based off some of those CCS catalogs. Here's another link I grabbed from another thread from '94 where the boards are mostly 31.5"
https://vertisdead.blogspot.com/2016/09/california-cheap-skates-1994.html?m=1
These are incredible. I think the best skating I've ever done in my life was on 7.62s now that I think about it. The 7.75 was my old reliable for ages but that was later on. A Neighborhood at 7.38x30.88 how lengthy, Sonic 7.25x30.75, a CCS 7.31x30.25, Foundation board at a slightly wider (supposedly) 7.38x30.25 and another at a whopping 7.25x30.25!
I would enthusiastically set up all of those right now! I certainly remember the sub 7.5 Alien boards, I had several. I also remember them snapping. The 7.62 all the way up to 7.75 was perfect for me. Well back then anyway. At some point in my life my bag of flip tricks sprung a leak.
A 7.3 sounds so interesting. A gateway drug to freestyle boards? Oh god. Instead of the old guy skating transition and curbs am I going to be in the parking lot corner doing rail stands?
A funny thing with smaller boards, but a friend is on a mission to set up the ultimate small board, not the Skate Mafia type of tiny board, but an actual normal board, just the smallest he can find.
I have an old AH 7.3 set up on Thunder 143 with some 48 mm wheels that has been an experimental board, but I have a few others on the way, another new AH 7.3 eagle and a couple of Real True Mid Ovals in 7.5 and 7.75 to test too.
All three of those options are in the very small board size range, all under 30" long, with dimensions to match. Might be a bit too small for most people, but it will be fun setting them up and seeing how they go.
Some other people looking for smaller boards find it quite difficult these days to get much of anything under 8" let alone 7.5" shapes in regular supplies.
* Almost forgot to say that when they skate the smaller boards, they can do almost anything very easily, compared to a bigger board of current times. That was one distinct benefit of the smaller and lighter boards, even if they did seem to break so much more easily back in the day.
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not certain, but as to the question of the first board with a nose longer than tail i believe it was a new deal templeton. one of few upsides of being a skateboarding fossil is eitnessing so much of this change first hand. i remember holding that first double vision and having a sense of the possibilities it opened, but, also having no interest in riding one. think story is chuck holtz is credited for making that mold and that rocco later bribed someone to liberate the mold from vision to use at world.
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I wonder was the first one to make the nose actually longer than the tail?
In 1990 Fall CCS catalogue, it looks like all the boards still have a shorter nose than tail.
But in the 1990 Winter Catalogue there may be one board at least that has a longer nose than tail:
https://archive.org/details/ccs-1990-winter/page/n3/mode/2up
There is Jeff Kendall board on page 6 that looks like the nose is longer than the tail.
The following page has the "Double Vision" deck - likely the first twin kick board ever as you guys were saying. Looks almost exactly like Andy Anderson's board.
In 1991 there is also a "Jinx" double kick, not sure if also twin kick dimensions.
In Summer 1991 catalogue of CCS, pretty much all the boards switched from longer nose than tail.
This is a cool board i never knew about:
https://www.juliensauctions.com/en/items/2050741/tony-hawk-1991-powell-peralta-pictograph-skateboard-deck
This is almost like a Hockey Board
Awh distribution used to have open houses every spring and they had palettes of that Tony hawk board and also a Frankie hill Powell board with Van Gogh,s cut off ear and the Edward munch scream painting top graphic for like $30. This was around 2004. Also old Powell wheels like cross bones etc for cheap. Was pretty cool and my friend got a few of them. I didn’t as I was buying for a shop and no way you are moving Powell shit in 2004
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not certain, but as to the question of the first board with a nose longer than tail i believe it was a new deal templeton. one of few upsides of being a skateboarding fossil is eitnessing so much of this change first hand. i remember holding that first double vision and having a sense of the possibilities it opened, but, also having no interest in riding one. think story is chuck holtz is credited for making that mold and that rocco later bribed someone to liberate the mold from vision to use at world.
Pretty sure you’re right about Templton have the first longer nose than tail(could be remembering wrong though), but you’re correct about Hultz doing the mold and Rocco having it stolen. I saw an interview where he was talking about that a while back.
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Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Here’s some Think, Real, and Stereo boards from '93 all hovering around 31” There’s a Dan Drehobl there at 30” !!
https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgjcKZ2e3ZPByprZwosWnygi-gr_bNH0_Mtme47eMoy0JOjvPB_nYpckuFphKDPfIpzJoLDR2MH8gb2p21d5hKMP8Lseht2F7t3LZWEFY5X95lIvavmoz8yeWI9OfvIko2Q_mUXlyWsnAY/s1600/ccs199304.jpg
So maybe '93 is when boards were smallest? Based off some of those CCS catalogs. Here's another link I grabbed from another thread from '94 where the boards are mostly 31.5"
https://vertisdead.blogspot.com/2016/09/california-cheap-skates-1994.html?m=1
These are incredible. I think the best skating I've ever done in my life was on 7.62s now that I think about it. The 7.75 was my old reliable for ages but that was later on. A Neighborhood at 7.38x30.88 how lengthy, Sonic 7.25x30.75, a CCS 7.31x30.25, Foundation board at a slightly wider (supposedly) 7.38x30.25 and another at a whopping 7.25x30.25!
I would enthusiastically set up all of those right now! I certainly remember the sub 7.5 Alien boards, I had several. I also remember them snapping. The 7.62 all the way up to 7.75 was perfect for me. Well back then anyway. At some point in my life my bag of flip tricks sprung a leak.
A 7.3 sounds so interesting. A gateway drug to freestyle boards? Oh god. Instead of the old guy skating transition and curbs am I going to be in the parking lot corner doing rail stands?
A funny thing with smaller boards, but a friend is on a mission to set up the ultimate small board, not the Skate Mafia type of tiny board, but an actual normal board, just the smallest he can find.
I have an old AH 7.3 set up on Thunder 143 with some 48 mm wheels that has been an experimental board, but I have a few others on the way, another new AH 7.3 eagle and a couple of Real True Mid Ovals in 7.5 and 7.75 to test too.
All three of those options are in the very small board size range, all under 30" long, with dimensions to match. Might be a bit too small for most people, but it will be fun setting them up and seeing how they go.
Some other people looking for smaller boards find it quite difficult these days to get much of anything under 8" let alone 7.5" shapes in regular supplies.
* Almost forgot to say that when they skate the smaller boards, they can do almost anything very easily, compared to a bigger board of current times. That was one distinct benefit of the smaller and lighter boards, even if they did seem to break so much more easily back in the day.
Hell yeah. I was tired of lugging my Orange Eagle up 5 flights of stairs at work so couple years ago I got one of these and set it up as a cruiser on Thunder 145s with a set of OG Cadillac/Road Rider-style reissues (56mm/78A). Super fun, exhilaratingly scary when you hit a patch of rough ground at high speed. I also put Lil’ Smokies 48mm Tablets on it when I bring it out for the kids to ride at family barbecues.
Mine still has a little life in it (these are both old photos), but I noticed that sometime in the past year they took about an inch off the length and wheelbase. It’s now 28.5/11.9 instead of the old 29.3/12.9, so I imagine it’s going to be a pretty wild ride when I have to finally replace it.
(https://i.ibb.co/CKVhDCM3/IMG-9061.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CKVhDCM3)(https://i.ibb.co/QjcPsvsV/69385246596-7324-B951-DABE-42-ED-AB06-1-D3-C55836-A84.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QjcPsvsV)
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Hell yeah. I was tired of lugging my Orange Eagle up 5 flights of stairs at work so couple years ago I got one of these and set it up as a cruiser on Thunder 145s with a set of OG Cadillac/Road Rider-style reissues (56mm/78A). Super fun, exhilaratingly scary when you hit a patch of rough ground at high speed. I also put Lil’ Smokies 48mm Tablets on it when I bring it out for the kids to ride at family barbecues.
Mine still has a little life in it (these are both old photos), but I noticed that sometime in the past year they took about an inch off the length and wheelbase. It’s now 28.5/11.9 instead of the old 29.3/12.9, so I imagine it’s going to be a pretty wild ride when I have to finally replace it.
(https://i.ibb.co/CKVhDCM3/IMG-9061.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CKVhDCM3)(https://i.ibb.co/QjcPsvsV/69385246596-7324-B951-DABE-42-ED-AB06-1-D3-C55836-A84.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QjcPsvsV)
So good!!!
I did notice the older one I have is the 29 with 12.9 wb so it will be interesting what he thinks of the newer smaller size.
I can take some comparison pics once they get here too, but I have a feeling the 7.3 is just a little too small, but can still be lots of fun, maybe in much the same way the Zip Zinger was for a lot of people when it came out, with the Zig Zagger being a bit more "normal" in shape and size / dimensions. I have the Zagger, but not the Zinger. Or the Zogger, but that is a different story entirely.
The funny thing with board evolution too, some boards just got more narrow, eg 7.5 x 32 with a regular wheelbase, but others scaled down completely, if not in mold, at least in the overall dimensions, so 7.5 x 31 with 14 or less wb.
Should have these small boards mid week and go from there, with the assessment and setups on some small trucks I have had no other use for until now.