Evolution of product Ex. Wheels Trucks Decks

[EDGEDLRD]

Only took 35 years for the industry to realize that inverted kingpins make sense. 25 more and we will have decks made of more quality materials than wood.

[FrenchSkater]

I wonder what the shapes of the boards were like over the years.. For example, I have the impression that in the years 2005 to 2010 (my first years of skating), the boards looked like be much shorter in length and I have the impression that the wb 14 was much more present ? No ?

Today the standard is 14.25 and many more long boards than short boards.

Curious to know the main “fashionable” shape of each board through each year..

[spacial_profiling]

Only took 35 years for the industry to realize that inverted kingpins make sense. 25 more and we will have decks made of more quality materials than wood.

I think the lowered KP makes more sense than inverting it. Sure, it makes it easier to lock feeble/smith out the gate, but so what? They still come loose as hell and are nowhere near the ability to hold in place the life of the truck like their non-inverted counterparts. To the wood comment, it would need to be equally sustainable.

[TwisT]

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Kingpins use to snap all the time! It was such a regular occurrence. Thunder, venture, krux , destructo,silver, Indy, I broke em all. Then it sort of stopped happening. I haven’t broken a king pin since like 2012. I do wonder what changed.

[close]

Rodney Mullen switched us over to grade 8 steel button head instead of grade 5 hex head when he designed the first Tensor truck.

Interesting! Was this in an ad? Is there any documentation? ad, interview, etc. I believe that this would be true. I just hate that when there's a subtle industry change on the back end, there's never much of a record.

[back smith]

Has anyone noticed that boards chip way less now than in the 2000s? Ive thought it could be because i skate less gaps these days, or the more full kicks, but i swear the wood/glue quality has improved.  Could just be me though

I have noticed this about BBS and DSM manufactured boards but have also had oldschool type chipping from other manufacturers still in modern times.

[Musicaldeath107]

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Kingpins use to snap all the time! It was such a regular occurrence. Thunder, venture, krux , destructo,silver, Indy, I broke em all. Then it sort of stopped happening. I haven’t broken a king pin since like 2012. I do wonder what changed.

[close]

Rodney Mullen switched us over to grade 8 steel button head instead of grade 5 hex head when he designed the first Tensor truck.

[close]

Interesting! Was this in an ad? Is there any documentation? ad, interview, etc. I believe that this would be true. I just hate that when there's a subtle industry change on the back end, there's never much of a record.

I have an ad burned into my brain about them using grade 8 kingpins in Tensors as a feature.  They even showed you how to check the grade of the bolt by looking at the bolt head and looking at the lines.

[Mean salto]

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Maybe more fashion over function but in the 00s to maybe early 10s people really liked skinny wheels and wanted them especially hard. Core wheels too and I remember autobahn being pretty popular. Maybe the skinnyness +hardness of wheels contributed to how bad they seemed to flatspot in my memory.

People were also really obsessed with having very white wheels. People would keep wheels in the freezer to make them harder and out of sunlight to keep them from turning yellow.

[close]

Surely on the east coast and Midwest it would be hard to run those types of wheels? I mean even in some spots of California it's hard to run anything smaller than like a 54 if you want speed and not have to push every 5 seconds. But I like big wheels, I skate 58mm conical full spitfires that I have dyed black and white in a swilrl pattern.

Also never understood the white wheels thing, always loved the color of the beige/brown color of wheels.

You could still get the skinny wheels in big sizes and there was still stuff like spitfire classics and bigheads around. I guess people from those areas eventually won because I don't think spitfire even makes a thin wheel anymore.

[Mean salto]

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Kingpins use to snap all the time! It was such a regular occurrence. Thunder, venture, krux , destructo,silver, Indy, I broke em all. Then it sort of stopped happening. I haven’t broken a king pin since like 2012. I do wonder what changed.

[close]

Rodney Mullen switched us over to grade 8 steel button head instead of grade 5 hex head when he designed the first Tensor truck.

[close]

Interesting! Was this in an ad? Is there any documentation? ad, interview, etc. I believe that this would be true. I just hate that when there's a subtle industry change on the back end, there's never much of a record.

[close]

I have an ad burned into my brain about them using grade 8 kingpins in Tensors as a feature.  They even showed you how to check the grade of the bolt by looking at the bolt head and looking at the lines.

Tensors may have been first but other brands also swapped and their shit still snapped. Maybe kingpins just snap less on 7.5 lows that are specifically made to not turn tho.

[smokindawgshit]

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Maybe more fashion over function but in the 00s to maybe early 10s people really liked skinny wheels and wanted them especially hard. Core wheels too and I remember autobahn being pretty popular. Maybe the skinnyness +hardness of wheels contributed to how bad they seemed to flatspot in my memory.

People were also really obsessed with having very white wheels. People would keep wheels in the freezer to make them harder and out of sunlight to keep them from turning yellow.

[close]

Surely on the east coast and Midwest it would be hard to run those types of wheels? I mean even in some spots of California it's hard to run anything smaller than like a 54 if you want speed and not have to push every 5 seconds. But I like big wheels, I skate 58mm conical full spitfires that I have dyed black and white in a swilrl pattern.

Also never understood the white wheels thing, always loved the color of the beige/brown color of wheels.

[close]

You could still get the skinny wheels in big sizes and there was still stuff like spitfire classics and bigheads around. I guess people from those areas eventually won because I don't think spitfire even makes a thin wheel anymore.

I think they had the classic slim for a Reynolds pro wheel like 10 years ago, and the radial slim (do they even make those anymore?)

What wheels has spitfire discontinued? I feel like I don't see tablets anymore. Come to think of it haven't heard anything about the lock ins for a minute.

[Mbrimson88]

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Maybe more fashion over function but in the 00s to maybe early 10s people really liked skinny wheels and wanted them especially hard. Core wheels too and I remember autobahn being pretty popular. Maybe the skinnyness +hardness of wheels contributed to how bad they seemed to flatspot in my memory.

People were also really obsessed with having very white wheels. People would keep wheels in the freezer to make them harder and out of sunlight to keep them from turning yellow.

[close]

Surely on the east coast and Midwest it would be hard to run those types of wheels? I mean even in some spots of California it's hard to run anything smaller than like a 54 if you want speed and not have to push every 5 seconds. But I like big wheels, I skate 58mm conical full spitfires that I have dyed black and white in a swilrl pattern.

Also never understood the white wheels thing, always loved the color of the beige/brown color of wheels.

[close]

You could still get the skinny wheels in big sizes and there was still stuff like spitfire classics and bigheads around. I guess people from those areas eventually won because I don't think spitfire even makes a thin wheel anymore.

[close]

I think they had the classic slim for a Reynolds pro wheel like 10 years ago, and the radial slim (do they even make those anymore?)

What wheels has spitfire discontinued? I feel like I don't see tablets anymore. Come to think of it haven't heard anything about the lock ins for a minute.

You can check their current shapes on their site, as well as pretty much all options in size, measurements, etc.

Not all sizes are available, but at least it is good to look at and compare.


https://www.spitfirewheels.com/

https://www.spitfirewheels.com/wheel-shapes/


Same with Bones wheels, or OJ wheels too - always interesting checking their products, info, pics, etc.

[RealPudhead420]

I remember board snap on kicks/ tail
And venture kingpins snap. Saying that though,  I loved my old featherlites and snap boards

My Pudwill ventures have never snapped and I've beenk skating them consistently for nearly a decade. Then again I don't ollie, or flip my board. I actually don't know where it is.

[swongolianbbq]

The old 80s urethane was killer
But they had to change it because of EPA regulations or something
Just now getting back into some really good formulas today

Kingpins used to break all the time
That could've partially been due to running super tight trucks and/or skating in cold weather

The aluminum on trucks used to be softer, so the grind felt real nice. But I would crack hangers in half, get axle slip, bend axles, etc

In '92 or so Skate Werks, Shorty's, etc started pushing counter-sunk bolts vs the truss-head bolts that were the standard previously

Also in '92 the bolt pattern shrunk for room for nose and tail slides

Not exactly sure when the nylon cages in bearings became standard
But moving on from the metal cages was good. Shit I had some purple FKD bearings back in the day that had metal cages, they were ass

I think hollow, forged, titanium, etc trucks aren't super necessary, but people like them. I definitely prefer standards for the feel and weight

The hollow-core, dual duro wheel crap never stuck

Slicks didn't really stick(lol) around  but they're still available here and there

The axle clips instead of nuts definitely didn't stick

I think the best advancement by far, is the powell flight decks. It's fucking great knowing I'm not going to ever break my board on the session, and they don't feel like shit like the old "tech" boards felt (libtech, Santa cruz, etc)


So idk

The truck alloy is harder and stronger
The bearings are better
Wheels are finally good again

Not a whole lot you can do to a skateboard to make it "better" but I wholeheartedly fuck with flight decks, saves me money and saves the session

[codswallop]

I wonder what the shapes of the boards were like over the years.. For example, I have the impression that in the years 2005 to 2010 (my first years of skating), the boards looked like be much shorter in length and I have the impression that the wb 14 was much more present ? No ?

Today the standard is 14.25 and many more long boards than short boards.

Curious to know the main “fashionable” shape of each board through each year..

Board length is something overlooked in the "crazy how small boards were in the 90s" shop talk haha Lengths also got about an inch and a half shorter as well when widths dropped to 7.5. People only trip on the width. Can anyone share their exp? I didn't start skating till around 2000 and just have access to the internet for my 90s hot takes   

[Mbrimson88]

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I wonder what the shapes of the boards were like over the years.. For example, I have the impression that in the years 2005 to 2010 (my first years of skating), the boards looked like be much shorter in length and I have the impression that the wb 14 was much more present ? No ?

Today the standard is 14.25 and many more long boards than short boards.

Curious to know the main “fashionable” shape of each board through each year..

[close]

Board length is something overlooked in the "crazy how small boards were in the 90s" shop talk haha Lengths also got about an inch and a half shorter as well when widths dropped to 7.5. People only trip on the width. Can anyone share their exp? I didn't start skating till around 2000 and just have access to the internet for my 90s hot takes   

I think it was all relative to the board brands and what they were putting out.

A few examples, from boards I have from that time:

1. My 1992 The Firm board is about 9 at the widest point, 32 long with a 14.0 wheelbase.

2.  A 1995 World Industries 7.6 with a 14.0 wb and 31.4 length, so very flat and kicks start half way from the bolts to the end of the board, which is weird.

3. A 1998 Real 8.25 with a 14.25 wb and 32 length, also very flat, way more normal kicks starting just nicely past the bolt holes.


Looking over catalogs of various big name boards at the time, things were a little more on the smaller board, shorter wheelbases and lengths, but some were still quite long too, eg a DLX catalog from 1995 / 1997 had a varied mix of different sizes and shapes.

https://archive.org/details/deluxe-distribution-1995


More of the well known catalogs like CCS had a bit more "middle of the road" type of board shapes, from the ones I saw, with boards mostly in the 7 range, rather than 8 and above, as a point of reference.

[codswallop]

Here’s some Think, Real, and Stereo boards from '93 all hovering around 31” There’s a Dan Drehobl there at 30” !!

https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgjcKZ2e3ZPByprZwosWnygi-gr_bNH0_Mtme47eMoy0JOjvPB_nYpckuFphKDPfIpzJoLDR2MH8gb2p21d5hKMP8Lseht2F7t3LZWEFY5X95lIvavmoz8yeWI9OfvIko2Q_mUXlyWsnAY/s1600/ccs199304.jpg

So maybe '93 is when boards were smallest? Based off some of those CCS catalogs. Here's another link I grabbed from another thread from '94 where the boards are mostly 31.5"

https://vertisdead.blogspot.com/2016/09/california-cheap-skates-1994.html?m=1

[roba]

Here’s some Think, Real, and Stereo boards from '93 all hovering around 31” There’s a Dan Drehobl there at 30” !!

https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgjcKZ2e3ZPByprZwosWnygi-gr_bNH0_Mtme47eMoy0JOjvPB_nYpckuFphKDPfIpzJoLDR2MH8gb2p21d5hKMP8Lseht2F7t3LZWEFY5X95lIvavmoz8yeWI9OfvIko2Q_mUXlyWsnAY/s1600/ccs199304.jpg

So maybe '93 is when boards were smallest? Based off some of those CCS catalogs. Here's another link I grabbed from another thread from '94 where the boards are mostly 31.5"

https://vertisdead.blogspot.com/2016/09/california-cheap-skates-1994.html?m=1

in the 94 catalog there's a 7.5 x 32 madcircle and a 7.38 x 32 new deal, i'd love to see a real photo of a board like that

[rawbertson.]

i am curious what was the first brand to do skateboard deck rails
I see Rib Bones by Powell Peralta is the early one that seems to have taken over the market etc.
maybe if i look back in old thrashers i can see the first ads when they came out

[swongolianbbq]

i am curious what was the first brand to do skateboard deck rails
I see Rib Bones by Powell Peralta is the early one that seems to have taken over the market etc.
maybe if i look back in old thrashers i can see the first ads when they came out

Paul schmitt as far as I know

Their first model was wood

Then switched to polyethylene

Lots of people made their own wooden ones

People seem to have started using rails around like, '77

[Slave IV]

My first rails were Schmitt Stix.

[rawbertson.]

This is the oldest photo I could find of anyone riding rails

https://skateboardinghalloffame.org/skateboarder-magazines-searchable/

go to January 1978, page 80
Jim Martino on a Z Flex board. Not sure if that is rails or that is part of the board?

Seems like it really didn't take off til 1979 at the earliest, and even then its pretty rare

https://skateboardinghalloffame.org/shof-2024/per-viking/
Per Viking, on the cover of skateboarder October 1979. I couldnt find any magazines to serach through, but i found some early 1979 ones and still dont see any ads for rails and i didnt see any more photos of any.

In the first thrasher 1981, they are already commonplace and everywhere. didnt see any ads for them still though.

i found lots of text citing there were wooden rails, just couldnt find any photos of them

[theloniousmonk]

1990 slick bottom
1995 Santa Cruz nuwood
1998 libtech, aircraft, Lars Tetons, probably more
2000 bones hardcore bearings and stf
2001 Santa Cruz powerlite
2016 flight decks
2024 Dbx

Not sure about dates

[rawbertson.]

some other random stuff that comes to mind;
-What brand did the first concaved boards? was it world?
-Indy 1978, and then the Stage 7 which moved the holes to the new closer together configuration that we use now in 1993
-we know the first deck with a nose shaped like tail was Mike V barnyard, also Vision "Double Snub". were these twin kick as well I wonder?
-F4 ~2012 important to note
-bones swiss came out in 1981
-Bones STF wheels came out in 2005

[TwisT]

1990 slick bottom
1995 Santa Cruz nuwood
1998 libtech, aircraft, Lars Tetons, probably more
2000 bones hardcore bearings and stf
2001 Santa Cruz powerlite
2016 flight decks
2024 Dbx

Not sure about dates

I'm not even going to attempt to ballpark all the years.

bonite
mongoose, and some other brand did aluminium decks
Element/PSSTIX fiberlight
Habitat Hemplight
Watson/Tumyeto fiberlam
Birdhouse Black six
Revolution Rev deck, 100% carbon
Dwindles Amory ply. eternal life, and then impact

[Slave IV]

some other random stuff that comes to mind;
-What brand did the first concaved boards? was it world?
-Indy 1978, and then the Stage 7 which moved the holes to the new closer together configuration that we use now in 1993
-we know the first deck with a nose shaped like tail was Mike V barnyard, also Vision "Double Snub". were these twin kick as well I wonder?
-F4 ~2012 important to note
-bones swiss came out in 1981
-Bones STF wheels came out in 2005

I’m not sure of any dates but there is no way World was the first to make concaved decks. Every pro style deck I had in the 80’s had some level of concave. I remember Santa Cruz “Cruise Missile II” concave or whatever they called it was incredible when I first got one of those.

[swongolianbbq]

Yeah Santa Cruz "bevel" in '79 as far as I know, also the dogtown triplane in the same year

I heard the first people riding concave were the dogtown guys, using warped pieces of hardwood to make some boards

Chuck hultz's double vision board was modified to make the barnyard, vision was first technically. The snub version was smaller, and the barnyard doesn't have the full-length nose

Then the powell per welinder "Nordic sperm" 8.75 twin tail in 1990

This board is important too (1988)



Probably the first commercially produced with the upturned, longer nose

[Mbrimson88]

-Indy 1978, and then the Stage 7 which moved the holes to the new closer together configuration that we use now in 1993

I think Venture were the first to actually have six hole baseplates, closely followed by other brands, but yes around 1993 is the first year more commonly credited with the change.  When you think about it, Ermico was the place in SF where Indy, Thunder and Venture were all being made, so I think as soon as one truck brand got six hole baseplates, the others would follow soon enough.

Prior to that people were drilling in their boards and trucks from 1990 I think someone had said in an interview about it, when being able to slide on the ends of your board became very popular, but as with anything from way back then, I don't think there was any one specific person or place that it was happening first, but just more due to the evolution of skateboarding and people trying different tricks all over the place.


Always funny what AI searches come up with these days:


Independent Truck Co. is widely recognized as the company that popularized the standard 6-hole baseplate design.

While skaters were drilling custom holes in the late 1980s to prevent hardware damage, Independent cemented this design in the early 1990s (around 1992-1993) to allow for both "old school" and "new school" mounting patterns, a feature that persists in their 159, 169 and 215 models.

Key Details on the Development:

The Trendsetter: Venture Trucks is also cited in some historical accounts, with Greg Carroll claiming to have been the first to make the 6-hole change in 1992 to accommodate ledge skating and prevent hardware damage.

The Evolution: Independent moved to a 6-hole baseplate during their Stage VII (1993) era to reduce bolt wear.

Purpose: The 6-hole design was introduced to allow skaters to switch between old-school (further apart) and new-school (closer together) mounting patterns on their decks.


* I am sure there was a better one of different truck baseplates, but this is a good one too:


https://www.instagram.com/kristiansvitak/p/CztO3I1uZb9/

[The Huffer]

I feel like mid 80s to 90 or so was a key period for equipment evolution.

As mentioned SC speedwheels were untouchable. To this day, I don't think we've had urethane as good.
Indy stage 5s. The first Indys with hollow hanger bodies (not axles).
Cruise missile I and II concaves are still a mind-melter to stand on.
Then slicks. Those early slicks were pretty great.

Bu 92 we were starting to go into equipment de-volution. Probably due to intentional cost-cutting measures. Shit was really disposable, while skateboarding was dead. Wheels went to crap. Small and flat spot prone. Decks mushed out and snapped easy with the mellower concaves and crappy wood. And trucks stayed bulky and heavy even with tiny decks and wheels. Venture featherlites were a notable and decent exception.

Wasn't until mid to late 90s that things shaped up again. And it look a long long time for wheels to get up to standard. Bones SPF/ STF led the way with urethane innovation. Old George is still killing it on that front. And I say that as a die hard Spitfire  F4 rider....

[theloniousmonk]

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1990 slick bottom
1995 Santa Cruz nuwood
1998 libtech, aircraft, Lars Tetons, probably more
2000 bones hardcore bearings and stf
2001 Santa Cruz powerlite
2016 flight decks
2024 Dbx

Not sure about dates

[close]

I'm not even going to attempt to ballpark all the years.

bonite
mongoose, and some other brand did aluminium decks
Element/PSSTIX fiberlight
Habitat Hemplight
Watson/Tumyeto fiberlam
Birdhouse Black six
Revolution Rev deck, 100% carbon
Dwindles Amory ply. eternal life, and then impact

Early 90s Paul Schmitt worked with Kris markovich to make the modern molds for element decks. Not sure the name
2006 element helium
Kape recycled plastic decks
2000s Chapman boards with replaceable tops for razor tail and less chipping.
Flip new wave
Chocolate pop secret



Maybe I’m just writing gimmics now

[TwisT]

Oh!

I just remembered, small wood shop called legend that currently makes Hstreet and some of the everybody skates decks.

They make one with rails pressed into the wood

They also make one with extra ply in the tail so the last longer.

[marcusbutler]

I can't believe we are still trying to reinvent the wheel with decks. Seeing a featherlight deck my friend was skating I wasn't thrilled then and still not thrilled now. I think dwindle was the start and manufactures just keep throwing shit at the pot. Even when all the trucks started getting hollowed out. I remember thinking, what's next? The fuckin hardware? Welp, thanks ace! Ace probably wasn't the first but I remember googling it and ace popped up with the hollow hardware. Now with the crailtap pop secrets, and the basalt decks from deluxe. Gimmicks!