Should brands stop selling direct to consumer?

[artskool]

I own a small brand that lives partly in independent brick and mortar shops, and we would not be in business at all if we didn't start selling direct. We don't even sell to my local shop because they have a history of not paying their bills. I'd 100% just sell to awesome indy shops if it was possible, but its not.

[chrisskates808]

That one is a really tricky question. I’d prefer to buy from local shops to support them. At the same time, I would buy straight from the company sometimes if my local shop doesn’t have it.

[chrisskates808]

Majority of the time, the local shop I go to has a lot of things that I want.

[Lenny the Fatface]

Anyone who says “well my local shop is this” or “that dude who owns my local is a this or that” can shut the fuck up. There are a TON of fucking local shops all over the country. Ever try calling one or checking a website to a local shop that isnt your local? I literally buy stuff from shops around the country. So maybe we need to push to support skate shops and not just your “local” skate shop.

No offense, but I find that logic weak.

The whole point of buying from a local skateshop is either for convenience (you just cracked a deck and need another one ASAP) or to support your skate scene. They're supposed to host events/contests, chip in on the DIY park, and connect the local talent to some sponsors if they're interested.

If I'm buying shit from another state, might as well buy from skatewarehouse as they probably have a better infrastructure to handle online orders. If I'm buying shit from skatewarehouse then fuck it, I might as well buy it directly from Quasiskateboards.com.

[MusclesMarinara]

I always try to support my local shop and if I can't I try to support a skate shop with a webstore. Buying direct from the company, big box skate websites is always my last resort. Now I don't frown on shopping from the big web stores at all. I've gotten some solid deals on gear I'd otherwise never be able get at my local. But other times my local just doesn't have what I need or prefer and I'm not gonna buy something that doesn't fit my preference just because it's my local shop.

[Ok]

Expand Quote

Anyone who says “well my local shop is this” or “that dude who owns my local is a this or that” can shut the fuck up. There are a TON of fucking local shops all over the country. Ever try calling one or checking a website to a local shop that isnt your local? I literally buy stuff from shops around the country. So maybe we need to push to support skate shops and not just your “local” skate shop.

[close]

No offense, but I find that logic weak.

The whole point of buying from a local skateshop is either for convenience (you just cracked a deck and need another one ASAP) or to support your skate scene. They're supposed to host events/contests, chip in on the DIY park, and connect the local talent to some sponsors if they're interested.

If I'm buying shit from another state, might as well buy from skatewarehouse as they probably have a better infrastructure to handle online orders. If I'm buying shit from skatewarehouse then fuck it, I might as well buy it directly from Quasiskateboards.com.

I don’t think anything should (nor could it possibly) be regulated in a way where one had to purchase from a single channel.

Buying from an actual shop, even if it’s a state away, is completely different than buying from amazon: it supports cool shit.


I bought a board direct from Scram. No one had it local (at that time). They charged significantly more to buy direct (the packaging was so amazing I didn’t skate/set up the board for months, beyond dope, well worth the cost), than it would have cost to buy from the shop. I thought that was a cool gesture on scram’s part to try and funnel business to the shops.


Buy boards (stuff) whenever. If you don’t like skate shops, don’t support them.

The rest of us that do, could possibly go back to being the antagonistic assholes that skating might be missing and just focus other people’s boards. But. It’d be hard to know who.....certain griptapes could be profiled. Primitive boards often sold direct.....tensors.
Plus I’d have to skate around other people.
And get strong enough to focus other people’s boards.

[Sona]

Can only speak from a Canadian perspective but here the biggest problem for me is shop websites usually don't reflect what they actually have in stock.

[essal]

it's really understandable why brands sell direct to consumer.
selling it directly to timmy for $50 gives them basically free profits compared to selling the same board to a shop for less, so that the shop can sell it for $50. you can sell DTC goods at 75% of retail prices at no loss.

in skateboarding the community aspect is so important, so these brands shouldn't do DTC in areas where they have shops. they are basically shitting on their own feet and making dumbass timmy grow up without a local shop. shops shouldn't sell product from brands that do DTC either, but i can understand that shops are forced to sell bullshit brands to timmy to stay alive.

[MisterX]

I have worked for 3 local skateshops, and have now working in the design sector of the industry for the better part of 10 years, which has allowed me to experience sides.

I am all for supporting local shops, and do when I can, but if they do not stock the size/shape/color of a product I tend to go DTC.  In my experience  this is a result of small shops not being able to support all SKUs being offered by each brand they carry.  Some shops do a great job of curating product, but for example a brand like Palace sells hardgoods and apparel.  A shop that can sell $60 boards might not carry their $250 jackets, etc.  When I worked at shops I always did my best to special order items when possible, but some shops are getting stock through distribution companies which also might not have the full line.  Also if someone is supporting a local shop online, special orders may not be possible. 

Brands are also obligated to make minimums with factories, which can result in a liability of on hand product after pre-lining to shops/reps/distributors.  As stated by a couple others some smaller shops have harder times paying invoices on time as well (something I have dealt with first hand). This is why a lot of brands sell to Zumiez/CCS/etc. because this is an avenue for larger quantities which helps eat up the minimum, and invoicing is more stable (although margins and terms may not be as favorable).  I think a lot of brands are starting to realize that DTC can help alleviate that need to work with big box retailers and that DTC orders allow money to go back to the brand versus going into the pockets of the Mall stores.

I have generally always thought of malls stores as kooky and have not really had a problem with them, because they're carrying a lot of price point products and products marketed towards the casual crowd.  Maybe a kid gets his first setup from Zumiez, and goes to the park and is slowly exposed to the culture of skateboarding and the local shop scene.  My fist board was a Variflex from a tractor store, but after being educated by the older guys I went to our local shop and picked out my first real complete for my birthday.  I think most of us started on "Wal-Mart Specials" so if a kid goes to a mall and is supporting an actual skate brand kooky or not, at least they might enjoy themselves and not ride a soggy plastic wheeled monstrosity like I had to.

I think both shops and DTC can coexist, and it's always cool for brands to support and partner with shops to give them SMU styles, or collaborate which gives the customer a reason to come in and support both the shop and brand.

[Spacetravelisboring]

I own a small brand that lives partly in independent brick and mortar shops, and we would not be in business at all if we didn't start selling direct. We don't even sell to my local shop because they have a history of not paying their bills. I'd 100% just sell to awesome indy shops if it was possible, but its not.

Are you from Alberta?

[GardenSkater77]

If brands were undercutting shops on their website then it’s a problem. For instance, ScumCo and DOA sell boards for $50-$55 + $5 for grip + shipping + tax. If Seasons or Labor cannot compete with that its time to close up shop.

Also, I’m assuming these brands sell direct to shops so shops can probably make more selling these brands.

If I owned an independent shop I would make sure that any board I bought was not selling for less from the manufacture than I was comfortable selling for and if I was being actively undercut I wouldn’t buy from them anymore.

I think a good shop accepts that a brand should have more than one channel.

[Uncle Poseur]

Expand Quote

I own a small brand that lives partly in independent brick and mortar shops, and we would not be in business at all if we didn't start selling direct. We don't even sell to my local shop because they have a history of not paying their bills. I'd 100% just sell to awesome indy shops if it was possible, but its not.

[close]

) /thread

[Lukabrazi]

I like Quasi's model, they get all their product for most recent releases into shops first, shops have the first go at selling that gear, for what seems like a week or so before Quasi drops the stuff onto their own site.

Bronze56k seems to do the opposite of that , where they release a line of gear on their site, and then that next week it seems like the shops start to get their orders in .

[too fakie]

it's really understandable why brands sell direct to consumer.
selling it directly to timmy for $50 gives them basically free profitscompared to selling the same board to a shop for less, so that the shop can sell it for $50. you can sell DTC goods at 75% of retail prices at no loss.

in skateboarding the community aspect is so important, so these brands shouldn't do DTC in areas where they have shops. they are basically shitting on their own feet and making dumbass timmy grow up without a local shop. shops shouldn't sell product from brands that do DTC either, but i can understand that shops are forced to sell bullshit brands to timmy to stay alive.

The margin is better, but it is definitely not a “free” profit. The benefit to brands for selling to wholesalers is that they supply the product and the wholesaler worries about selling it. When a brand takes on the task of selling the product directly, they have to set up and pay for whatever E-commerce platform they use plus web ads to drive sales. Someone on here may work in E-comm and have more insight on exactly what those costs look like. Again, the margins are good and make it ultimately worth it in the long run, but it does take money to establish your DTC business. 

My wife and I both work for brands that do all 3 - wholesale, retail, and E-commerce. Both brands make a ton of money in the wholesale side (mine makes about 75% in wholesale), but both are still pouring tons of resources into growing DTC.

Why? Control. You can’t always be subject to your wholesaler’s business decisions (closing doors, cutting buys, filing bankruptcy, etc).

[TheLurper]

No, the free market keeps prices low and competition high.  Regulation only fucks things up.

First, it seems many "skaters" fail to see the indirect benefit in supporting the local shop. (Obviously not all local shops are worth supporting, but it seems most cities have one legit shop.) Not that my local shop always gets it right, but they've done amazing things to make the scene better. Reducing a shop to simply a place where goods are purchased misses a big part of the picture. The buying and selling of goods of almost incidental to the shop's real impact on the local scene.

On top of being a place to buy goods, shops act as a space to hang out (make friends, discussion of ideas, etc.), it is a place of "education" for younger skaters (the local shop is a way better place to learn about skateboarding than Aaron Kyro's latest "Will Xenu's spaceship skate?" video), the shop is a promotional platform for local skaters (shop TM's often act as agents for local flow skaters), the shop is an easy resource for the local governments to reach out to for assistance/advice, and so on. The shop's value is only partial found in its ability to sell product.



Second, the stupidity in the quoted statement is best seen in the fact that it has no relation to the past 40 years. (Not to mention Adam Smith our free market hero was fighting against mercantilism, which every libertarian seems to forget as the catch phrases are more fun than the actual theory).

In the post-Reagan "de-regulation" era we've only seen wealth continue to concentrate. This is within individuals and within most sectors of the economy. Hell, from 1996 to 2012 we saw most areas of the economy become more concentrated not more competitive. 

Third, the quoted "logic" believes that the magic fairy's "invisible hand" will create and maintain competition forgets that money is a form of power that can allow a powerful individual or institution to manipulate and bastardize the market. If I am Microsoft or Home Depot or some other huge company am I really going to just watch the market change because " free choice"? No, I'm going to buy out my competition, I'm going to pay them not to produce, I'm going to hire market researchers to manipulate the public, and so on. I'm going to do everything I can to cling on to power.

A local shop is so much more than just a place to buy a board. Brands play a role as well, but it is kind of like the local gov vs the federal gov. It is sometimes easier to see the fed gov because it is so big and powerful, but the local gov is the one that has the biggest affect on our day to day lives. It is easy to see how Sorry impacted the skate scene as a whole, but difficult to see how important all the little things the local shop did to make and maintain our local scenes.

[pdknox]

smart brands do this in order to survive.

my local fired all the staff and replaced them with vending machines filled with product.

ha.

[sfa]

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Anyone who says “well my local shop is this” or “that dude who owns my local is a this or that” can shut the fuck up. There are a TON of fucking local shops all over the country. Ever try calling one or checking a website to a local shop that isnt your local? I literally buy stuff from shops around the country. So maybe we need to push to support skate shops and not just your “local” skate shop.

[close]

Best post on this topic, thank you for keeping skating good in your country.  I do the same

Was gonna post pretty much this, happy to see some people on here with brains that work.

There are a TON of amazing skate shops around the country run by really fucking rad people. You can mail order from them just as easily as mail ordering from the brand.

Stronger skate shops means stronger brands.

[johnes]

I don’t think people should be chastised or made
to feel guilty for choosing to not buy from an independently owned skateshop. There are far worse things in the world than not buying from your local and choosing to buy direct.

Expand Quote

Skate shops are of great benefit to skateboarding but if they all were gone, skateboarding would continue and people would find another place to hang out.
I support direct to consumer. I support skate shops.

But I think lots of people overstate the benefits of skate shops especially here in the future, 2019/2020 where everything is online now. Skate shops aren’t needed as much.

[close]

I almost feel like the skatepark has turned into the hangout spot for the new generation of kids ready. Ya people won’t learn as much about the history of skating or be able to get a sponsor like from the park but idk just kinda seems like the direction it’s headed

Good point, yeah the skatepark basically is the hangout now that most towns have one.

[fulltechnicalskizzy]

My local shop is right next to Auntie Anne’s Pretzels 

[Putaslocas]

How the fuck do people plan on supporting skate shops when they can barely pay their rent at this moment? People are legit going broke and were supposed to think about non essential shit? Lol ass backwards.

[Mr. Stinky]

How the fuck do people plan on supporting skate shops when they can barely pay their rent at this moment? People are legit going broke and were supposed to think about non essential shit? Lol ass backwards.

Lots of people might still want to skate while going broke.

[arrbee]

I like Quasi's model, they get all their product for most recent releases into shops first, shops have the first go at selling that gear, for what seems like a week or so before Quasi drops the stuff onto their own site.

Bronze56k seems to do the opposite of that , where they release a line of gear on their site, and then that next week it seems like the shops start to get their orders in .

This is why I fuck with Quasi. It's a nice balance.

How the fuck do people plan on supporting skate shops when they can barely pay their rent at this moment? People are legit going broke and were supposed to think about non essential shit? Lol ass backwards.

Most sound logic would tell me that if you can't pay your rent you shouldn't be buying skate shit. Now, yes people are going broke, no one in here is saying buy boards over paying rent. What we are saying is, if you are in a position to be buying skate shit, buy it from a skateshop versus the brands website.

[gsosa]

Expand Quote

How the fuck do people plan on supporting skate shops when they can barely pay their rent at this moment? People are legit going broke and were supposed to think about non essential shit? Lol ass backwards.

[close]

Lots of people might still want to skate while going broke.

If they are going broke I'm guessing copping the newest Formula 4s or Acid Ply Quasi deck is not at the top of their priorities, and they can probably skate with the shit they have now.

I feel (as it has been said before) that the best way  for shops is to do both. Keep the core shop where people can go hang out, support local shit, do premieres etc. and also sell online, that way you can reach customers who are farther away or completely on the other side of the country, or even in another country

[sfa]

How the fuck do people plan on supporting skate shops when they can barely pay their rent at this moment? People are legit going broke and were supposed to think about non essential shit? Lol ass backwards.

and we're back to people without brains....

[Mr. Stinky]

Expand Quote

Expand Quote

How the fuck do people plan on supporting skate shops when they can barely pay their rent at this moment? People are legit going broke and were supposed to think about non essential shit? Lol ass backwards.

[close]

Lots of people might still want to skate while going broke.

[close]

If they are going broke I'm guessing copping the newest Formula 4s or Acid Ply Quasi deck is not at the top of their priorities, and they can probably skate with the shit they have now.

Maybe, maybe not, but no one should honestly care either way since this thread isn't about peoples priorities during difficult times; it's about local shops vs DTC, and the truth is that even broke bastards should either support their local or somewhere else's.

[SatanicPanic]

No, the free market keeps prices low and competition high.  Regulation only fucks things up.

That’s not regulation it would be businesses deciding to act a certain way on their own

[secondhandstoke]

Expand Quote

No, the free market keeps prices low and competition high.  Regulation only fucks things up.

[close]

That’s not regulation it would be businesses deciding to act a certain way on their own

skate businesses should be regulated so they don't go out of business

[Reed Richards]

Here's another thing I thought of.  On their own website, some brands let you pick the size of your board no matter the graphic.  For example, you might see a deck in a shop with a graphic you like, but it's 8.25 and you prefer 8.  If you buy direct to consumer, you can get it in an 8.  Obviously not everyone does this, but it's a cool feature that usually happens only with DTC.

[legion]

what if your local shop was ran by two fat Nazis? Wouldn’t it be better to just buy directly from the brand and not give those Nazis any money? I think so.

The brand sells to two fat nazis. Double profit for them so the nazis get nothing?


Bored of your main account?

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[Tear Up a Trick]

I feel like this debate will be settled around the same time as the Israeli / Palestinian debate is settled on the Whatever forum.