Author Topic: Overpriced or underpriced?  (Read 9897 times)

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CHONGO

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Re: Overpriced or underpriced?
« Reply #30 on: October 20, 2020, 08:55:36 PM »
i dont think boards are over priced. But companies that charge 80$ for a hoodie..

Mbrimson88

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Re: Overpriced or underpriced?
« Reply #31 on: October 20, 2020, 09:22:39 PM »
i dont think boards are over priced. But companies that charge 80$ for a hoodie..

This could be a whole different thread hey?!?

Clothing can often be a different story though to hardgoods.  I definitely NEED a good quality deck, trucks, wheels, bearings, even good shoes, but I don't need the branded tshirt or hoodie (or socks, beanie, cap, flannel, spray jacket, etc) of those same hardgood brands.

Gildan or AAA or similar blank shirts are AU$5 or less, then once printed with a big name brand are AU$50 to $60, hoodies can be AU$20 to $30 and then retail for AU$100+ and it would be the same everywhere, but that is where the big name brand can make some money (and the retail shop can also make a lot of money) because people want to wear branded clothing don't they?

That is not to say that I don't have a ton of branded product of everything I mentioned above, being the sucker for nice things as I am, but it is definitely interesting on the NEED versus WANT scale, as well as how much they can push prices up and people will still buy the items regardless.


I talk too much about skateboards.  Sorry.

JB77

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Re: Overpriced or underpriced?
« Reply #32 on: October 21, 2020, 03:40:23 AM »
Right now decks on Tactics’ website range from about $35 to about $82.  That’s an average of $58.50. 

Those numbers include everything from shop decks to hand-screened reissues.  Of course, stock is limited right now, but I think those numbers would hold up to pre-pandemic times.

$58.50 doesn’t seem unreasonable to me.  I usually get waaay more than $60 bucks worth of fun out of a deck. 

I think the industry will have to start preparing their customers for rising prices in the future, though.  They will eventually need to start using more environmentally sustainable materials and that will, at least initially, cost more.

With the margins in hard goods the way they are, it seems that decks are loss-leaders for the companies to sling t-shirts and socks. 

Hyliannightmare

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Re: Overpriced or underpriced?
« Reply #33 on: October 21, 2020, 04:07:08 AM »
Those decks sizes are beautiful. All the sub 7.75s

Yessir. Decls should be like 50 a pop imo. But that's why I grew up skating blanks and shop decks. I suck and dont need to scratch up a nice deck skating. I just buy what I want to hang and skate blanks now in my 30's

NORTHBYMIDWEST

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Re: Overpriced or underpriced?
« Reply #34 on: October 21, 2020, 04:39:00 AM »
I'd pay $65 for a pro board with grip but if they go much above that I'm going back to skating blanks.

coldbrew

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Re: Overpriced or underpriced?
« Reply #35 on: October 21, 2020, 06:00:41 AM »
I'm amazed at how many people skate brand/pro boards. Maybe because my local has a quality shop deck but that's all I run and all I have run for years at this point.

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Re: Overpriced or underpriced?
« Reply #36 on: October 21, 2020, 06:28:00 AM »
I’ve been paying $65 for baker decks which I think is a little crazy, but that shape and bbs wood can’t be beat so I do it anyway..

BALARGUE

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Re: Overpriced or underpriced?
« Reply #37 on: October 21, 2020, 06:58:25 AM »
i just moved to france and decks are like ~55 euro for shop decks, ~65 for euro brands, 75–80 for american brands. i paid 75 for a creature 9” bc there weren’t any wide shop or euro decks.

i guess it depends where you landed
prices are slightly lower (recommended prices, prices you ll get in Paris but i know that in the south, shop owners / thiefs usually adds 5€ which is more consistent with your prices,)

45-50€ for shop decks
55-65€ for euro brands
70-75€ for us brands

free griptape

the 5€ COVID inflation on everything is spreading fast though... and prices will globally reach your prices list by the end of the year

Burton Ernie

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Re: Overpriced or underpriced?
« Reply #38 on: October 21, 2020, 07:47:03 AM »
You really can't compare hardgoods to softgoods at all. One is a utility/necessity and the other is a luxury/fashion category.

As far as deck margins, they may not be great, but how much should you expect to pay for a consumable product that lasts on average 1-2 months? Not to mention you could easily ruin a board in a week or less if you're going hard or unlucky. I think that will always keep the price of decks low.

I sell boards and have kept my price at $45 since the beginning (about 5 years). I realize I could prob go up to $50 at least and still make sales. Some argue the smaller brands like mine are taking money out of pros pockets but I do it for the love of skateboarding and my local scene. I want to support the locals that I like and also contribute to the community with DIY spots, events, etc. Anybody that wants to start a board company to get rich is gonna have a bad time.

All that said, I don't think I'd pay more than $65 for a quality pro deck.

sbmfj

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Re: Overpriced or underpriced?
« Reply #39 on: October 21, 2020, 07:51:36 AM »
paid 80$ (CDN) for a local garage brand pro model (includes local sales tax and grip).
I probably paid around the same price 25 years ago at a shop, so inflation adjusted, prices gone down I guess...

But with some shop boards being pressed by the same manufactuere of abovbe mentioend garage brand, go for the shop deck I guess - its the same wood.

However, kinda nice to support a local brand, graphics are cool too.

JB77

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Re: Overpriced or underpriced?
« Reply #40 on: October 21, 2020, 09:43:06 AM »
You really can't compare hardgoods to softgoods at all. One is a utility/necessity and the other is a luxury/fashion category.

As far as deck margins, they may not be great, but how much should you expect to pay for a consumable product that lasts on average 1-2 months? Not to mention you could easily ruin a board in a week or less if you're going hard or unlucky. I think that will always keep the price of decks low.

I sell boards and have kept my price at $45 since the beginning (about 5 years). I realize I could prob go up to $50 at least and still make sales. Some argue the smaller brands like mine are taking money out of pros pockets but I do it for the love of skateboarding and my local scene. I want to support the locals that I like and also contribute to the community with DIY spots, events, etc. Anybody that wants to start a board company to get rich is gonna have a bad time.

All that said, I don't think I'd pay more than $65 for a quality pro deck.

I can’t understand the argument that independent board brands are taking money out of pro’s pockets. Like indy board companies don’t have any right to gain any share of the market or something?  Skateboarding has always had a strong DIY ethic and I think skateboard startups are rad.

eSK3

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Re: Overpriced or underpriced?
« Reply #41 on: October 21, 2020, 10:25:36 AM »
When I was a kid and moms bought my boards I had no concept of money. So I can’t speak on before.

As a grown man I feel boards are overpriced but I still support the stores and brands I like.

Crap

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Re: Overpriced or underpriced?
« Reply #42 on: October 21, 2020, 10:37:09 AM »
paid 80$ (CDN) for a local garage brand pro model (includes local sales tax and grip).
I probably paid around the same price 25 years ago at a shop, so inflation adjusted, prices gone down I guess...

But with some shop boards being pressed by the same manufactuere of abovbe mentioend garage brand, go for the shop deck I guess - its the same wood.

However, kinda nice to support a local brand, graphics are cool too.

Feel like it's often a whole different margin/structure on a 'garage' brand, and I probably wouldn't pay close to full price in most cases. They're not paying a team or any of the associated expenses with that (travel, videos, etc.), it may be coming from a second tier wood shop, and there's no cut going to the shop (if you buy it direct from the brand, as is often the case). I consider that stuff to be part of what I'm paying for when I pay full price for a board at a shop. I'd rather pay $95 and spread that money among an actual skate brand, a professional artist who was paid to make the graphic, a pro skater, an established wood shop, and my local skate shop; versus spend $80 and have it split between a rando Chinese factory and some guy who knows how to order boards.

Mileage may vary on all of that, obviously. If it's a small brand who does support a team, is using a good wood shop, and is selling it at a real skate shop; then I'm all for it - they should be charging as much as the big guys, and I'll pay it. It just feels like all that isn't the case a lot of the time.

Edit for the Americans: I'm talking Canadian dollars in the figures above.

FrozenIndustries

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Re: Overpriced or underpriced?
« Reply #43 on: October 21, 2020, 10:47:21 AM »
Had that Bo Turner slick. I thought it was so huge because it was 7.88" instead of 7.75". That was the first board I skated with Venture Lo and pretty much only rode those until 2012.

I can't stand when the industry throws one of their pity parties over people buying blanks, shop decks, or from small companies. Boards (by their very nature) will always have a shitty margin and acting like kids are doing something wrong buy trying to save money is just some manipulative bad-faith bullshit.

That being said, I just paid $70 (after sales tax) for a board the other day. I'm totally fine with paying a premium for a shape I like on good SC or Generator wood. I'll save money elsewhere, getting shoes from Nordstrom rack and all that. That being said, I'm older, financially stable, and skate 95% curbs so I realize I am in the minority.




Octobre Rouge.

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Re: Overpriced or underpriced?
« Reply #44 on: October 21, 2020, 11:10:27 AM »
Wow, I bought that AWS clone technology two years ago for 30€.

augustmoon

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Re: Overpriced or underpriced?
« Reply #45 on: October 21, 2020, 11:22:23 AM »
Can anyone accurately say what the actual cost of manufacturing a deck in China/Mexico and getting it to you local shop is?  The argument is kind of pointless until we can determine that. 

I dont know too many other sports where the main instrument of that sport is as disposable as skateboarding.  Wouldn’t making boards that last longer and out of more sustainable materials hurt the industry as much as cheap blanks and shop boards?
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Burton Ernie

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Re: Overpriced or underpriced?
« Reply #46 on: October 21, 2020, 11:22:46 AM »

If it's a small brand who does support a team, is using a good wood shop, and is selling it at a real skate shop; then I'm all for it - they should be charging as much as the big guys, and I'll pay it. It just feels like all that isn't the case a lot of the time.


To clarify, I do support a team, use a good wood shop (mfg in Mexico) and at least 60% of my sales are to the only local Skateshop in OKC. Also I occasionally use profits from our sales to help fund local DIY pours when I can afford it.

bradtheraddad

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Re: Overpriced or underpriced?
« Reply #47 on: October 21, 2020, 11:23:52 AM »
I'm happy with $55 FA/Hockey decks & $2 grip all day. If my local has any FA/Hockey wood in stock, I'll go there and pay extra bc I know it's an investment into skateboarding's longevity in my community.

I've always been intent on buying a pro's deck bc I know the $1-2 will go DIRECTLY to the pro (right?). I presume, if I buy, say, a Toy Machine "monster" deck, I presume that money goes to the company & team in general and helps pay for ads, videos, tours, etc. but...are any of the riders seeing that money as well or ONLY board royalties if I purchase the board with their name on it?

Just curious about that since I'm not in the industry and not sure how exactly the sales made off of team or logo decks get dispersed.

coldbrew

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Re: Overpriced or underpriced?
« Reply #48 on: October 21, 2020, 12:20:34 PM »
Expand Quote
I'm amazed at how many people skate brand/pro boards. Maybe because my local has a quality shop deck but that's all I run and all I have run for years at this point.
[close]
My local shop decks lose all pop within a week. And they seem to chip like no other. I’d rather buy one flight/vx board that’ll last me a few months rather than buying blanks over and over that snap within a week or two.

That's a super bummer. I won't take mine for granted at all then.

fs180

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Re: Overpriced or underpriced?
« Reply #49 on: October 21, 2020, 12:23:23 PM »
id only skate blanks if the blanks were the same boards as fa, habitat and every other good wood using board company , but most of the time those blanks are the same wood as enjoy boards some horrible china shit without any real concave.

might only be the placebo effect, but paying slightly more makes me less paranoid about my setup. its like a small garantie that tells me if i fuck up a trick its probably not my setup but me.

in europe board prices range from shop boards 45 euros / 55 dollars to european brands and some american companys like tom yeto 55 euros - 60 euros / 65 - 70 dollars, dwindle at like 65 euros / 75 dollars but also baker and fa boards for about 75 euros/ 85 dollars.

think it always has been this way, but baker boards have never been this expensive. probably since they moved from blitz.

moonordie

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Re: Overpriced or underpriced?
« Reply #50 on: October 21, 2020, 12:26:20 PM »
For those who matter regarding outside US down here, in Chile, it was pretty much the same thing. Boards had always the same price. For local brands, and by local I mean from within the country, the usual price was 25.000 clp and for US boards like 40.000 clp. On these last 2 years prices went up for local boards for 30.000 clp and US boards starting at 45.000 clp up to 70.000 for FA/Hockey which are the most expensive ones. All those boards come with free shitty generic grip which is pretty much useless so you have to throw in some 5.000 for some classic Mob if you're lucky.
Bare in mind that the minimum wage in here is like 320.000 clp
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forgive me if i somehow missed it, but could someone help me with just how flat the flat as fuck decks really are?
[close]

As Fuck.

x

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Re: Overpriced or underpriced?
« Reply #51 on: October 21, 2020, 02:14:17 PM »
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Those decks sizes are beautiful. All the sub 7.75s
[close]

Yessir. Decls should be like 50 a pop imo. But that's why I grew up skating blanks and shop decks. I suck and dont need to scratch up a nice deck skating. I just buy what I want to hang and skate blanks now in my 30's

Where do you buy your blanks from? I'm currently looking for the best options for purchasing blanks.

celery man

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Re: Overpriced or underpriced?
« Reply #52 on: October 21, 2020, 02:28:43 PM »
Those decks sizes are beautiful. All the sub 7.75s
can't even imagine what a 7.38 must feel like

funny how so many are 7.88, like you can see the transition slowly as people wanna move away from 7 and 3/4s but don't wanna fully commit to an 8.0 yet.

Mike V's 8.25 dominates today, who woudda guessed it. I started on a 7.6 and at the time it felt like the most normal board in the world, I'm sure now it'd feel tiny.

pointandclick

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Re: Overpriced or underpriced?
« Reply #53 on: October 21, 2020, 02:41:13 PM »
boards cost 15-25$ more for shops to buy now in canada. decks were 80$ for the last 22 years. so things had to go up, or shops would close.

Mbrimson88

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Re: Overpriced or underpriced?
« Reply #54 on: October 21, 2020, 06:00:49 PM »
Expand Quote

If it's a small brand who does support a team, is using a good wood shop, and is selling it at a real skate shop; then I'm all for it - they should be charging as much as the big guys, and I'll pay it. It just feels like all that isn't the case a lot of the time.

[close]

To clarify, I do support a team, use a good wood shop (mfg in Mexico) and at least 60% of my sales are to the only local Skateshop in OKC. Also I occasionally use profits from our sales to help fund local DIY pours when I can afford it.

You seem like you are doing it the right way, which is awesome.

There are many others who think they can make money or have dreams of bigtime by starting their own brand, whether they "do it for the kids" or "no one seemed to be supporting their local scene" or whatever, but have no idea, get cheap wood, have terrible graphics, wonder why no one like shops or legit dudes want their product and then go slinging it to kids or people who don't know any better at local skate parks or where ever they can, which then gives the DIY skate brand a bad name, as well as reducing sales of established board brands and takes money away from the shops, which is in turn hurting the industry.  * Not preaching, just telling it how it is.

That is just my observations from 30+ years in and around skate industry, working in shops and helping run events, and most of these new startups are here today then gone tomorrow. I do this for the love of skateboarding, not to make money, but I guess it is different when people need to prove themselves or whatever.

I have had arguments with people about it, but at the end of the day, I will buy and ride what I want to and the next guy can do the same, but as soon as someone starts telling me I should support their local brand, if I don't think it is good, I will say so.

The hardest thing too is if a kid only has limited funds, of course this seems like a great price to get a brand new deck (which for him might last just the same as a pro board at twice the price from the skate shop) and so that is often the market that "Mr DIY new brand" will hit.

That probably sounds like a whole lot of crazy, but the main thing I like is the big established brands rely on high quality product and reputation, so this combined with a good returns policy is the main reason I will always favour them, eg Deluxe brands of wood and the BBS woodshop supplied other pro brands if I cannot get DLX wood in the size and shape I want, which works best for me.  It is the shape and the concave I want first and foremost, of which I know I can always get from DLX, and in the event of an issue, warranty and board replacement was completed without a fuss.

Any good brand should be the same way, and any good skate shop should be able to facilitate that too, as well as have somewhere you can stand on a deck before you buy it.

I talk too much about skateboards.  Sorry.

Mbrimson88

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Re: Overpriced or underpriced?
« Reply #55 on: October 21, 2020, 06:13:21 PM »
Can anyone accurately say what the actual cost of manufacturing a deck in China/Mexico and getting it to you local shop is?  The argument is kind of pointless until we can determine that. 

I dont know too many other sports where the main instrument of that sport is as disposable as skateboarding.  Wouldn’t making boards that last longer and out of more sustainable materials hurt the industry as much as cheap blanks and shop boards?

If you work backwards, it might show you approximately how much they can cost, but not exactly because that is one of the secrets of the industry as well.

So you have the retail shop, who would like to make a decent margin (some mark up 100% but most are less) who gets from the wholesale distributor in the country.

The wholesale distributor needs to make margin too, when they get it from the brand company.

The brand company gets the product made to specifications and requirements from the manufacturer or woodshop.

The woodshop is the primary source, who determines the price, so if each board goes up $1 then that could easily be $10 or more at the retail shop end.

Eg woodshop $8 to $10, brand company $16 to $20, wholesale distributor $30 to $40 and then retail shop $60 to $80


The model might have one less step in country, or may even have another step if it goes through another set of hands for a different country too.

Anyone with more correct information, please let me know, as I am happy to be corrected.

I talk too much about skateboards.  Sorry.

Genericwhitemale

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Re: Overpriced or underpriced?
« Reply #56 on: October 21, 2020, 06:33:57 PM »
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Where I am pro decks/brand decks are 75-90 bucks (CDN), shop decks 50-55 bucks (pretty decent wood too, prefer the shapes as well).

Im getting shop decks from my local 100% of the time. Ive ridden pro decks for the first time in a decade this year cuz COVID fucked with the shop deck manufacturing.

I struggle to see why I should spend the same amount of money on shoes as I do a deck, shoes feel harder to make with more expensive materials but maybe im ignorant
[close]

Feel like they went from $80-85 to $90-100 at most Canadian shops this spring, and I'm fine with it. I can afford the extra few bucks, and with so many new people taking up skating during COVID; this was probably the right time to reset the price scale a little. Someone who never walked into a skate shop before May doesn't know or care that a deck is $10 more than it used to be, and still considers skating a pretty cheap hobby compared to most others (i.e. video games, golf, cycling, etc.). Boards still flew off the shelves all summer, and I'm glad the shops got to take in some extra money from it.


Canada sucks! XD XD XD XD XD

IpathCats

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Re: Overpriced or underpriced?
« Reply #57 on: October 21, 2020, 06:51:27 PM »
I had a couple quasi's that I paid about $60 for and they seemed to fall apart pretty easily. I'd gladly pay $70-75 for a consistently high quality, american made deck using good canadian maple. I doubt that's feasible though.

bob george

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Re: Overpriced or underpriced?
« Reply #58 on: October 21, 2020, 07:10:50 PM »
Australia is total insanity. I don't know what the fuck's up with people who buy pro boards here. I have plenty of mates who pay $120 for a deck. $140 is not unheard of. It's disturbing. I ride the chinese shopboards for between $40 and $60 bucks.

They're cheaper, stronger and I skate just fine compared to the fools riding boards worth twice as much as mine. I guess it's a bummer to no support such and such skate company, but I think local shops and being able to afford and enjoy riding a skateboard is more important than any of those companies.

I think people are kidding if the weight difference between these shop boards and "pro" boards have an effect on their skateboarding.
that skinny motherfucker with the high voice

rocklobster

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Re: Overpriced or underpriced?
« Reply #59 on: October 21, 2020, 07:56:14 PM »
Expand Quote
Can anyone accurately say what the actual cost of manufacturing a deck in China/Mexico and getting it to you local shop is?  The argument is kind of pointless until we can determine that. 

I dont know too many other sports where the main instrument of that sport is as disposable as skateboarding.  Wouldn’t making boards that last longer and out of more sustainable materials hurt the industry as much as cheap blanks and shop boards?
[close]

If you work backwards, it might show you approximately how much they can cost, but not exactly because that is one of the secrets of the industry as well.

So you have the retail shop, who would like to make a decent margin (some mark up 100% but most are less) who gets from the wholesale distributor in the country.

The wholesale distributor needs to make margin too, when they get it from the brand company.

The brand company gets the product made to specifications and requirements from the manufacturer or woodshop.

The woodshop is the primary source, who determines the price, so if each board goes up $1 then that could easily be $10 or more at the retail shop end.

Eg woodshop $8 to $10, brand company $16 to $20, wholesale distributor $30 to $40 and then retail shop $60 to $80


The model might have one less step in country, or may even have another step if it goes through another set of hands for a different country too.

Anyone with more correct information, please let me know, as I am happy to be corrected.

Your math is pretty spot on. You can do a run of boards off Alibaba for $8 a board, maybe $10 with a graphic on there. MOQ is pretty manageable too at 100 boards, shipping would probably add $3-5 a board depending on location. But you are paying for lower tier stuff, equivalent to the recent run of Tum Yeto boards that came out of China.

I won't knock China's manufacturing prowess, they are experts at scaling production and reducing costs, quality be damned. Their local factories who make local boards aren't 1/2 bad but you can't expect the same quality given the price. I have a board from a China woodshop sitting on my rack and while it look good it is definitely lighter than a US deck with far less concave. The only woodshop I would trust with consistency is DSM since they have been doing it for 15 years and supplying to the Dwindle companies.

While it may be a dream for some to run their own board company with their own logos, stockpiling boards is freezes up your capital that could be used for other parts of your business (opportunity costs). When you factor in marketing the boards, storage, dealing with customer enquires, the margins aren't great and you may be better off doing wheels, bearings or bolts which are much lower cost, lower risk and higher margin.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 11:41:59 PM by rocklobster »
Venture Truck Height:

5.0 & 5.2 LO
STANDARD - 1.88” - 47.75mm
FORGED - 1.85”- 46.99mm

5.0 ,5.2, 5.6, 5.8 & 6.1 HI
STANDARD - 2.09” - 53.09mm
FORGED - 2.04” - 51.82m