What does Slap mean to you?

[dumbassgradstudent]

Dumbass sociology grad student here, with some dumbass questions, for a dumbass class project. In this class, we’re conducting ethnographies on virtual worlds. So I chose Slap. I’ve lurked and very occasionally posted here since 2013 (under another username), but I am still a big idiot. So, I’d appreciate anything you’d be willing to share about Slap, its community, its history, its sensibilities and ethics, and who you are within it/what it all means to you. I posted some specific questions…answer them, answer your own, kook me, whatever

1) Slap as a community has distinct tastes – I’m thinking Matt Militano in Vanish. Describe these tastes. Where do they come from? Why do you think some parts get celebrated more than others? And how/why do you think Slaps’ tastes differ from other skateboarding spaces you inhabit?

2) For the pals, how do you decide when to kook or gnar someone? Relatedly, what do users like Cheetahsheets or Tracer mean/do for the space? How about users like Monkey_McPott and GAY?

3) What is slap’s reputation in the skateboarding world more broadly? Why do you think it has this reputation? And what are the differences between Slap’s outside reputation and what Slap’s actual community actually is?

4)Does slap have political/ethical commitments/standards as a community? In what cases do they manifest themselves and how are they acted upon? Do you see slap as a possible vehicle for change within, and possibly outside of, skating? How?

5) How do you mediate your online slap presence and your offline life as a skater? Do you see them as one in the same? As separate? Why and how?

6) What keeps you coming back to slap and why?

[jgonzalez]

i'll bite. For higher education. Don't downplay yourself. Have some confidence lol
you a senior grad student? what school? whatever you wanna answer. zoom is gnarly.
you gonna post the paper? how many pages/citations necessary. chicago format?

1. I don't care for matt militano tbh sorry i'm sure he's cool af IRL, and fred gall is a little before my time. gall is cool though. what shapes our collective taste? shared morals. idk. most people here seem to care about the art(i think skating is an art), so don't wanna see some dildo changing things too much or some dude that's pretty goofy or gimmicky. we see thru that shit. someone that satisfies the connoisseur. not too much bullshit. someone that skates well. honors traditions, or brings something to the table but not too much - like Nava or Rieder. crazy styles but spicing/mixing it up.

2 to kook or gnar? I gnar whatever reaffirms my world view and makes me feel safe and comforted. jk i barely do both and only kook racist, homophobic, stuff that's incorrect etc. I gnar people that make me lol or are well written/informative. trolls and jokesters spice up this place. some dudes are solid and create content/hook it up. make this place feel personable. community.

3.  nerds. I'm an internet weirdo. I think the rep this place has is gossip mill and this place is trash but people love trash. chaos. but lots of good people here.

4. not sure how many dudes here are punX but for me skateboarding and punk go together. punk is sometimes progressive or at least critical of authority. punk and skating are pretty progressive, in my view.  I think people here are into not being a dick to others and not sucking and call people out that aren't chill. pretty welcoming here..sometimes. shit talk still happens. I think slap is down with progressive changes in skating/calling out pros and industry people that say weird shit like the lame insta pro posts thread.

5. separate. I'm not telling people i post on slap or am reading these rumors or geeking out on gear. I mean, i talk about skateboarding with people but I don't really do any slapping IRL.

6. I keep cumming back for skate news and skate gossip and jokes. i haven't read thrasher or any mag in years so this is my new mag. in a way. just subscribed to thrasher tho cause I wanna keep print alive lol. as much as actual industry/media people lament this place they cum here too.

[Tommy G]

I'm not really the best one to answer these since I'm a bit of a newer user, but I'll do it to help.

1) Slap as a community has distinct tastes – I’m thinking Matt Militano in Vanish. Describe these tastes. Where do they come from? Why do you think some parts get celebrated more than others? And how/why do you think Slaps’ tastes differ from other skateboarding spaces you inhabit?

People all have different tastes, but I feel like people on the Slap boards see skateboarding as an art form, and certain parts or videos can give them a type of feeling that others may not. I appreciate all kinds of styles and there are some skaters I prefer to watch compared to the rest and how they're edited. There are certainly people on Facebook and Instagram that I've talked with that have a similar taste, but there are also many that either don't look at the historical videos or pay attention to certain videos and I feel that people being updated and knowing the history of skateboarding on the message boards help to give a perspective on the art form that is skateboarding.

2) For the pals, how do you decide when to kook or gnar someone? Relatedly, what do users like Cheetahsheets or Tracer mean/do for the space? How about users like Monkey_McPott and GAY?

Again, not a Pal, but judging by how some users interact with others, I can see why they get kooked or gnar'd. I don't look at every board, but when I see a board started by lk130 I know what to expect and usually don't pay it any mind compared to something Monkey would start where he took his time and effort to interview a pro or someone in the industry and put something together. Someone like myself? I have pretty general knowledge, so I know my place on the boards.

3) What is slap’s reputation in the skateboarding world more broadly? Why do you think it has this reputation? And what are the differences between Slap’s outside reputation and what Slap’s actual community actually is?

I've seen it from both sides. I have a couple of friends on here that post occasionally and they like looking at some boards for skate stuff, but then I have friends that think it's a shithole. I think there are some good dudes on the boards, and reading their stories ranging from funny to downright heart wrenching, they're just normal people like anyone else. Pros and industry workers come and go to either talk shit with us or give some industry info which is cool.

4)Does slap have political/ethical commitments/standards as a community? In what cases do they manifest themselves and how are they acted upon? Do you see slap as a possible vehicle for change within, and possibly outside of, skating? How?

Slap is very left wing from what I've seen. Skateboarding is about freedom, expression, and inclusion, but it doesn't mean that the rest of the world is that way. I can't really say a lot about the standards, but I know if things get too heated the mods or admins take over. I don't know if I see Slap as a movement for change, but people take more accountability here despite their anonymity, but I've noticed that they are more inclusive about a lot of movements in skating whether it's girls or transgenders in skateboarding.

5) How do you mediate your online slap presence and your offline life as a skater? Do you see them as one in the same? As separate? Why and how?

I'm not extremely active on Slap, I post to whatever I feel like I could add to in a conversation. As a skateboarder, it's hard to express my passion of skateboarding to most people, even some of my closer friends, so I take it here.

6) What keeps you coming back to slap and why?

The stories, the shit talking, and the industry gossip are always good to get my mind off everything else in my life. I may not post a lot, but lurking the threads and seeing other people talk about skateboarding is just fun.

[TheLurper]

Remember your goal is not to ask your respondents your research questions but to ask your respondents questions that give you the data that you can analyze in order to allow you to come to a conclusion about your sample. Moreover, when doing interviews you want to get stories out of your respondents. Your goal is to see the world through the eyes of your sample (which you probably already can to some extent if you are a native as you claim) and then interpret it sociologically (if you are a native this is the hardest part... distancing yourself from the myths of your own culture sucks).

Question one looks like your research question, not necessarily an interview/survey question for your respondents. What might be the best way of measuring tastes within the SLAP community without directly asking us a question that has soc jargon in it? (How does Bourdieu do this in his studies? How did Bourdieu show the difference in taste among various classes/professions?)? Also, are we respondents or informants? (What is the difference between the two?)

Someone who makes me laugh gets a gnar. Anyone apologizing for Mikey Taylor gets a kook. Anyone pushing some far-right garbage gets an ignore.

I'm not certain what the outside world thinks of SLAP. Is there another way to ask this question that only asks your respondents questions that they can answer? (Should this be something you ask non-SLAP users and then ask us what it means to us?)

If you want to know what I believe others think about the forum... I think most view it is irrelevant. It isn't irrelevant to me. And, I think Carnie or whoever it was that tried to demonize SLAP in the past year, was completely off base. I'll share SLAP links to friends every now and again and they usually chuckle at whatever shit I'm sending them. Also, I caught one of the dudes at BTL in Toronto lurking SLAP last time I was there. I think the forum is irrelevant, but also more relevant than some dudes want to admit. I mean shit, look at 1010 and BeeBul. I don't think either one of them can pretend SLAP doesn't matter.

Question four sounds like your research question again. How can you reframe this for your respondents?

My personal beliefs are John Rawls was brilliant and his ideas would probably bring about the best society. I tried following Chomsky into anarchism, but that shit wouldn't work. It is the other side of the coin of right wing libertarianism, romantic but I don't think there is anyway it could ever work. As for SLAP's power, like anything else is plays a role in creating a discourse and a taken for granted way of seeing the world. Gramsci or Foucault are probably a pretty good people to lean on here.

Online/Offline... there have been studies on skaters and their online/offline lives and how they intertwine (I think there was one on Instagram recently and another on Skate Perception a few years ago)... my views and persona doesn't change between offline and online. The only difference is, even though my sentiment and statements are the same across both worlds and my Lurper alter-ego is pretty fucking obvious (one of my friends guessed it out of the blue when I was with Jenkem), only my closest friends know my SLAP name. I'm not rolling into the local shop showing people the shit I posted on SLAP, but I'll talk about having seen some crazy shit on SLAP or sometimes even forward threads to people I know if SLAP is talking about them or if SLAP is doing something awesome. (AND, I know dudes in my hometown scene are on SLAP, but I still don't know their SLAP names.)

6)I lived in the middle of fucking nowhere for a few years for work. It was 80 miles to the nearest decent skate shop and decent park. Life there was hell and the dudes in the local scene and I tried to get along but we didn't click. They didn't really pay attention to the industry, videos, and hadn't really traveled. It was a form of skateboarding I didn't really understand or feel comfortable in. We were friendly, we cheered each other when we landed tricks, and all that, but it ended at "good kickflip" or "good luck at work tomorrow." We tried to be friends, we get along, but its not like we are going sit around watching videos together (we can't if they don't give a shit about the videos). SLAP was a virtual connection to a scene that was similar to what I was used to. It feels the same as lurking at the local shop all day long. Not that everyone here fully knows what is going on, but neither do those of us who spent years sitting around a local shop.

[Sila]

6. I keep returning becauase the range of different personalities is interesting and wild. I can come through and kick it with a bunch of weirdos who are obsessive over more than skating but we're still glued together by the magnetism of skateboarding. It's a great place to have a laugh. I don't hang out with the homies in big groups anymore so I guess this place has become a substitute for that.

[Freelancevagrant]

Man, this is fucking awesome. Keep up the great work.

1) Slap as a community has distinct tastes – I’m thinking Matt Militano in Vanish. Describe these tastes. Where do they come from? Why do you think some parts get celebrated more than others? And how/why do you think Slaps’ tastes differ from other skateboarding spaces you inhabit?

Slap is a microcosm of skateboarding. you will have dudes defending && tooth and nail as the greatest of all time and other people thinking he is some weird helmet wearing savant. Both are subjectively true to the poster, but ultimately it’s always going to be the intangible aspects of a part or a skater that will win most people over. Plus spot selection and trick selection have a lot to do with it. Look no further than Tom Knox. I bought two pairs of that mother fuckers shoes after that Atlantic drift part.

2) For the pals, how do you decide when to kook or gnar someone? Relatedly, what do users like Cheetahsheets or Tracer mean/do for the space? How about users like Monkey_McPott and GAY?

Not a pal, but if I was it would be pretty simple. If something is funny as hell, or just fucking cool, I would gnar. If something is garbage, xenophobic, homophobic, transphobic, sexist, or racist, I’d kook that shit. I will say with 100% certainty that monkey and GAY are a huge part of this community and help to make it a community. They post hella insightful shit and help make slap an actual tangible community.

3) What is slap’s reputation in the skateboarding world more broadly? Why do you think it has this reputation? And what are the differences between Slap’s outside reputation and what Slap’s actual community actually is?

People think slap is mos eisley of skateboarding. I would assume because it was one of the first place people could actually bring levity to skateboarding and show the warts and all side of skateboarding, not just the glamour. To me, slap is home. I don’t have any social media, and I never will.  But I will always have a slap account because of the people on here, 95% of the usual posters on here are great folks and I will defend that for as long as that’s the case.

4)Does slap have political/ethical commitments/standards as a community? In what cases do they manifest themselves and how are they acted upon? Do you see slap as a possible vehicle for change within, and possibly outside of, skating? How?

I think there’s a slight divide among the political spectrum which in turn leads it to its ethical standards. That being said, it doesn’t go further right than moderately conservative but has a fairly large leftist contingent. These views are manifested when we see people within skateboarding doing or saying reactionary shit. As previously mentioned all that reactionary or bigoted shit can get stamped out pretty quickly, on here at least. It’s hard to imagine slap being a vessel for change, but could definitely serve as a catalyst.

5) How do you mediate your online slap presence and your offline life as a skater? Do you see them as one in the same? As separate? Why and how?

For the most part, if I’m fucking around on my phone I always have one tab open and check slap pretty regularly. I see them as one in the same, as you get older and lose friends it’s hard to stay in contact and just bullshit with people who skate. That’s what’s great about slap, it has a vibe of being like a bunch of dudes taking a break from the sesh. It can get occasionally bloated or distracted, but always comes back to being a place where skaters can talk about skating.

6) What keeps you coming back to slap and why?
The people and the posts. Like I said as a skater, my favorite people are skaters, so it’s really nice to be able to have that connection. My wife would be happy if I didn’t spend so much time on slap, but that’s on her. Plus seeing fs180 come on and just lose his shit is so funny.

[Sila]

Plus seeing fs180 come on and just lose his shit is so funny.

Damn I thought I was the only the one that liked his posts for how funny they can be. High energy madness.

[DarthDingusMaximus]

1. Matt whatever his name is  not my type of personality. I’m more of a Pete Romandetta, or Frank Gerwer zaniness.

For me and how SLAP exists outside the other space? I know it’s not but those who utilize this message board are of three types either Tracer level of angry bitterness, Monkey Mcpott informative and good with conducting interviews, or you’re here to either contribute and be a part of the greater good.

2. Who to kook or gnar? Well if you’re not being a dickhead or a oblivious kook. I usually Gnar people.

3) What is slap’s reputation in the skateboarding world more broadly?
Cannot really speak on this question as it’s been a few years since I was working in a shop.

Why do you think it has this reputation? And what are the differences between Slap’s outside reputation and what Slap’s actual community actually is?

I’ve seen the positive and negative affects of it’s slandering on some what reputable shop’s and or outright obliterate a kook Nazi shop like Two Felons.

In a lot of circumstances having this quality control on who to support and who to call bullshit on should be taken a bit more seriously. I know for myself I’m glad to support a shop outside my area but in NO WAY SUPPORTING A KOOK SHOP.

Slap’ outside reputation versus what it really I’ve gotten heckled on here beforehand and it felt like the cool kids club if you don’t know you’ll never know buttttttt having taken a step back and just watched instead it has gotten better and a bit more inclusive where we aren’t cutting each other down more like a few friend’s saying that’s dumb or something witty that’s not going to hurt each other’s feelings.

4. Does slap have political/ethical commitments/standards as a community? In what cases do they manifest themselves and how are they acted upon? Do you see slap as a possible vehicle for change within, and possibly outside of, skating? How?

These questions are quite poignant and almost intrusive, great thread btw.

I’ve always seen it as a bipartisanship between racist kooks or somewhat left leaning attitudes, would they or should they have a political opinion?

 Naww I think politics has been waaay too hot for causing divisive problems within our scene. Which leads me to my next opinion, when and where is the bullshit stop?! Class war they want you and I to not agree with a lot of thing’s happening right now.

Do I think it could be a vehicle for change in some instances yes it can be by putting your heart on your sleeve and be the change to other’s. You see something wrong call it out someone having a hard time be that person to help them get through this.

5. How do you mediate your online slap presence and your offline life as a skater? Do you see them as one in the same? As separate? Why and how?

I’ve got enough issues as it is with my mental illness that what you see and meet IRL is what you get. No bullshit but a good person who only has your best interest at heart when it’s necessary.

6) What keeps you coming back to slap and why? Well I for one love being that thorn in anyone’s side for good or bad and absolutely insanely stupid and annoying babblings I AM THAT PERSON ON A SOAPBOX SPEAKING TRUTHS THAT MOST PEOPLE DON’T OR WONT WANT TO HEAR.

[mushroom slice]

1.my favorite skater is Matt Beach, slap rarely brings him up but I doubt he’s skating. Anyways I like the whatever section the most. Things that made me laugh is always good for a few laughs.
I enjoy the art section but I don’t post in there anymore, used too years ago in another account but I think that ship has sailed.
2. I’m not a pal but if I was I wouldn’t kook or gnar.
3. I don’t know what slaps reputation is in skateboarding. I know lotsa people lurk and lotsa people think it’s filled with negativity but they still lurk to see if their names come up.  My feelings for slap are mixed. I know the guy that made the angel logo and used to skate with him once in a while before he moved to another state so when I think of slap i usually picture that logo and I usually think about him and hope he’s well. Hi mat if you are lurking ! For the most part I like this place if I stay off the main page where people seem to bicker.
4. There will always  be trolls on the internet.
5. Well.... I have a normal name and I’m not a piece of pizza with mushrooms on it. The rest of the stuff I post is pretty much exactly how Iam in real life. I’m not the sharpest person out there but I don’t want to be mean to strangers I disagree with on the internet. I try to keep it kind. We all have our own crazy lives.
6.I fell in love with skateboarding 32 years ago. I dunno what else to say. I like to see new skate forage and slap seems like a better  filter then Instagram is at this point.  Also I enjoy the insights of certain slap people and almost feel like I know them and they seem cool.

[pugmaster]

S... is for how you look at me.
L... is for everyone I see.
A... is very, very, extraordinary.
P... is even more than anyone than you adore

[Nosferatu]

Slap means never having to say you’re sorry.

[dumbassgradstudent]

Firstly, I want to thank you all for the really thoughtful responses. This is already more than I could’ve asked for. I appreciate you guys opening up and am really glad that some of you seemed to appreciate the thread as well. You all brought up some interesting things I wanted to follow up on for anyone who is willing to elaborate. IusedToSkateMore, Tommy G, Sila, FreelanceVagrant, TheLurper all expressed a deep sense of at-homeness and comfort in the community slap provides, be it through laughs, gossip, or conversations totally unrelated to skating. Tell me more about this home. And do you feel it is something to be preserved protected? Why and how? Taking a page from TheLurper’s recommendations, I would love to get a feel for how you personally experience Slap as a home to be preserved and protected, perhaps through specific stories if you can provide them. Do you have any specific moments of particular beauty, camaraderie, and/or support that were facilitated because of the space/community Slap provides? What about instances where Slap was “threatened” in some way (TheLurper mentions Carnie demonizing Slap, for example)? How did Slap collectively respond?

Relatedly, it feels like Slap takes seriously preserving and uplifting whatever the moving target of “true” or “pure” skateboarding is. Like @El Fapintor describes, dishing out truths that most people don’t want to hear. Or like @jgonzalez explains, wanting to see skating that honors tradition, or spices things up, but not too much. Do you feel Slap serves a gatekeeper role in terms of skate culture? How so? Can you tell me about moments where it was particularly contentious as to whether something fell inside or outside of what Slap felt was “core” or “true” to skating (the Olympics is an obvious example…Freelancevagrant mentions &&, which is a fantastic more subtle example)? How do you guys experience these moments of contention as they unfold? In what ways are your personal opinions shaped by Slap’s collective opinion, and vice-versa?

This leads to one last question. Slap has managed to endure as a rich community in spite of the more general dissolution of online forums in favor of other forms of social media like instagram. Why and how do you feel slap's endurance happened? I’d love to hear from those of you who have been here since the 00’s or early 2010’s. How did you experience this transition? Did you notice the people who composed Slap change? What about the atmosphere of slap from say, 2006 compared to 2013 compared to 2020? I’d also love to hear from anyone who joined post-social media boom. What brought you here? And what was your first encounter with Slap like?

Actually one last question. Legendary threads…like “what’s going on at Bam’s” or TK’s thread…I honestly can’t think of any specific questions about them. I just feel they are important to the space. So tell me about some iconic threads if you can, and a bit about why you feel they became iconic.

and since jgonzalez asked, I’m a phd student in sociology at a university in a big midwestern city. I do not think I am going to post the paper lol. Its already vulnerable enough asking you all questions. Though if someone really wants to see it, I suppose you could pm me. But keep your expectations low, this is just a paper for class after all. No page or citation limitation. It works under a sort of rough assumption that you know what’s good enough and what is lazy. Not Chicago format, we use ASA format, which is the standard across sociology generally. And TheLurper, I loved your post dude. You’re right, my questions are far from ideal. They were rather cobbled together as my school work tends to be these days (I blame covid, and my indelible laziness). Sounds like you are familiar with the social sciences and social theory yourself. Bourdieu would be a great lens, Gramsci or Foucault would be too. Tbh I haven’t thought that far ahead (see my indelible laziness). But I very well may take you up on your suggestions, and the fact that they came from an informant/respondent/interlocutor/a Lurper makes it all the better. And lastly thanks for the kind words of encouragement that a number of you voiced! I wasn’t sure how my initial post would be received, so the support means a lot

[TheLurper]

Good luck with the paper. Send us a PM letting us know you finished it.

And, if you read Snyder's book on skateboarding, read it critically. A good number of people gave him pretty critical reviews. Yochim's book is a million times better. 

[IusedToSkateMore]

Saying "I'm vulnerable enough asking you all questions" as a reason to not openly share the work is weak and typical of traditional academic research as it is low stakes and uninvolved, benefiting the outside researcher with little apparent concern for the trust, generosity, and vulnerability of community stakeholders.

SLAP=PALS=SLAP

I'm going to add that this poster reached to me via PM to further express feeling uncomfortable in the role of the researcher/academic, and apologized for taking that role. For what it's worth, I think it's admirable and a show of humility aligned with academic/personal integrity. Keep it up!

[dumbassgradstudent]

I absolutely agree. It is typical of academic research, and it is a problem. And I'm glad you called me out for it. I didn't mean to bum you out, and I'm sorry if I did. if you want to read the paper, feel free to pm me. I will send it to you when it is done.

[Tommy G]

I can't really answer a lot related to the second round of questions, but I'll answer the one about the TK thread since I constantly see his posts and the slap updates. Bam and TK were both sensations at one point in time. Terry has a very outspoken personality and is open about his experiences growing up in his situation. We've all seen the videos, testimonials, and his motivational speaking to other people. I remember seeing the video where he quit Baker and it blew my mind, and I think that's when Slap stepped in. A couple of years later, it happened again, and you at this point you could obviously see something wasn't right with Terry. He definitely wasn't a top tier skater, but with his known personality and then figuring out there are mental issues, I guess something just sparked with the thread. He became a living meme with his Shalom post and his quality of skating and deteriorating mental health. It's amazing and sad to see what he's become and the thread has brought it to light.

[botefdunn]

Slap has managed to endure as a rich community in spite of the more general dissolution of online forums in favor of other forms of social media like instagram. Why and how do you feel slap's endurance happened?

As the McLuhan saying goes, the medium is the message.
In the past couple decades the internet has gone from being a somewhat marginal space to fully embodying popular culture. Recent expressions of online culture such as current social media are inherently part of mainstream popular culture, in a way that skateboarding, its roots and mythos firmly ensconced as "outsider" or even anti-establishment, can only inhabit somewhat paradoxically.
Earlier forms of digital communication not born of mainstream preoccupations do not, as mediums, inherently communicate the message of mainstream culture (i.e. forums such as this one were mostly invented as a means of  communicating specific and esoteric interests, rather than to sell ad space or act as stages on which to perform social or political positions.)
In short, a medium such as this forum, which communicates a shared interest among a specific community is still somewhat relevant to the nature of skateboarding. People whose interests are more inline with the prerogatives of mainstream culture (e.g. foodies) readily gravitate towards whatever medium is provided by the market, since their main objective isn't to communicate with one another, but rather to participate in wider culture. Or maybe not.

[matty_c]

Man you just did his assignment for him!

[johnes]

2. Pretty much the only time I use/remember the existence of the kook/knar feature is when i see someone else bring it up/ seeing people complaining about their rep and are upset about being kook’d.

[dumbassgradstudent]

Man you just did his assignment for him!

no kidding. Thanks botefdunn and all of you have posted. I appreciate you guys

[pugmaster]

Qual methods class?

[botefdunn]

Good luck with the paper. Send us a PM letting us know you finished it.

And, if you read Snyder's book on skateboarding, read it critically. A good number of people gave him pretty critical reviews. Yochim's book is a million times better.

Thanks for the heads up, I hadn't heard of Skatelife. I find the methodology and many of the conclusions pretty dubious but it was an interesting and valuable (to me) read nonetheless.

[TheLurper]

Expand Quote

Good luck with the paper. Send us a PM letting us know you finished it.

And, if you read Snyder's book on skateboarding, read it critically. A good number of people gave him pretty critical reviews. Yochim's book is a million times better.

[close]

Thanks for the heads up, I hadn't heard of Skatelife. I find the methodology and many of the conclusions pretty dubious but it was an interesting and valuable (to me) read nonetheless.

What conclusions were suspect for you?

I don't remember any details from the book, but I thought she did a pretty good job.

[Banned from the room]

Slap is the ultimate NA meeting. Just us talking shop talk and whatever.

[botefdunn]

Expand Quote

Expand Quote

Good luck with the paper. Send us a PM letting us know you finished it.

And, if you read Snyder's book on skateboarding, read it critically. A good number of people gave him pretty critical reviews. Yochim's book is a million times better.

[close]

Thanks for the heads up, I hadn't heard of Skatelife. I find the methodology and many of the conclusions pretty dubious but it was an interesting and valuable (to me) read nonetheless.

[close]

What conclusions were suspect for you?

I don't remember any details from the book, but I thought she did a pretty good job.

sorry for this short answer, not much time to type but def a conversation I would have and like to hear your take. Some of what I disagree with his probably not particular to her argument but just part of a wider academic/sociological perspective. For instance, part of her argument is based on the idea that "physicality is a masculine trait" (her words), and well I understand this to be a widely held view of gender, it's not one I share or care to perpetuate. In terms of her take, she views skateboarding as escapism, and while I do agree that it can be that, I think it's also a creative, political, and conscious act for many, myself included. She justifies characterizing it as just a veiled form of mainstream white masculinity, by pointing out that it has contains no institutional critique: I hear this argument made again and again, unsurprisingly always by people working within institutions or institutional frameworks. I very much appreciate what academics do, and what institutional frameworks make possible, but they also make it basically impossible to allow for or acknowledge forms of cultural production that challenge expertise as an institutional characteristic. Not trying to get jargonny here, I just haven't explained this much, hope you know what I mean. It's quite clear that her values are weighed heavily on the side of the socially normative, The amount of time she spends talking about skateboarding in terms of money and celbrity/pop culture far outweigh the minimal consideration she gives to what she calls "niche" skateboard media and the other forces generated within it, for example the geographic mobility it seems to provide to a large section of skaters (not just pros). Her sample group is also entirely comprised of people she met via a flyer she made and posted at a skate shop. She uses this sample to justify saying there is a lack of ethnic diversity, which seems like a stretch. But I really liked seeing the fairly rigorous academic approach.

[silhouette]

1/ Fred Gall aside I don't think that's the reality, I think SLAP is a conglomerate of different profiles with the only common denominator being a passionate skateboarder and thus, depending on their respective generations and upbringings (e.g.. things as simple as growing around this or that type of spot, in this or that climate), every individual has different taste. If you lurk deep enough, you'll realize that below the surface people actually disagree on skateboarders and videos all the time - interestingly, maybe with more insecurities when it comes to the ones that are current due to what I assume is fear of group rejection (whereas having 'sharp' takes on the past and acknowledged feels safer) which I always thought was a bit funny, but that's anecdotal and common human behavior that's not exclusive to the place (and so is the occasional groupthink).

2/ I almost exclusively gnar and most of the time it's either posts that managed to crack me up, or informative posts from which I can tell the poster actually speaks of experience and isn't just making shit up to sound cool. I only kook blatantly intolerant or purely toxic ad hominem posts with zero justification. Apparent contradictions or nonsense fly because we're all flawed individuals always in the process of learning more, so replying instead of scoring seems more constructive to me. I come on here to exchange (mostly) skate talk, so I don't really understand not bringing anything to the table to a discussion on a message board and instead just hitting a button to alter fictional points, it's like coming to a meeting with your voice and then never using it, just mumbling under your breath whenever something shakes your little world view - when you could be expanding it all the while contributing. In a way, caring about rep is a sign that you either really need a new hobby, or are worried for the online credibility of whichever company secretly feeds you and pathetically wish you could control other people's discussions instead of addressing reality.

3/ I view it as a place where skaters come sometimes to fuck around, often to be honest; as such, it also indirectly doubles up as indirect customer service where people exchange their opinions on industry-related topics - such as product quality or marketing (if not downright ethical) choices - which may or may not coincide with what said industry would like to be on display on the Internet, you know, that virtual shop window thing or isn't it. It is the sum of lifelong skateboarders from the world over's criticism more or less in real time and as such, I don't give a shit about its reputation, it's just what it is and up to the companies whether or not they accept reality, and particularly the aspect of it where they have zero control over skateboarding itself, only over as much of its facade as they can buy. If the boards died, the same people would probably set up their own and run them even more independently anyway. Such use of the place is completely natural and as much as some people would like to put it on SLAP as a ghostly collective, I don't think it's the skateboarders who are trying to push pensée unique - they're too busy just pushing (and then coming on here when physically tired).

4/ It's not just a SLAP thing, it's not even just a skateboarding thing but both skateboarding and SLAP can be pretty straightforward at reminding you the only basic standard: don't be an asshole. Change within and outside of skating happens all the time and is led by such people, and some of them just so happen to use SLAP sometimes.

5/ I go on here when I can't skate. I don't think of myself as a SLAP user or as a skateboarder; I just like to skate and occasionally exchange with people sharing that common interest, if only to discover how many ways there can be to interpret the same thing.

6/ The aforementioned exchange with people just as passionate about skateboarding as I am with a variety of profiles.

Re: Foucault, you might appreciate this: https://liveskateboardmedia.com/en/article/flanantopias

[SneakySecrets]

1.  Because we’re all super cool, smarter than everybody else and really handsome.  We have great taste.  Duh.

2.  Anyone that makes me literally laugh out loud or posts something legitimately helpful/kind/interesting: gnar.  Unfunny asshole comments, anything that Richard Head or straight post: kook.

3.  Perception: That we’re a bunch of grumpy old fucks that don’t skate. Reality: We’re a bunch of grumpy old fucks that occasionally try to skate.

4.  “Snitches get stitches.”  Yes.

5.  In real life I’ll pretend to be impressed when people do gross boneless variations, body varials and/or hippie jumps.  My “online slap presence” doesn’t need to carry that burden.

6.  ok boomer’s signatures.  Mid day j.o.

[TheLurper]

sorry for this short answer, not much time to type but def a conversation I would have and like to hear your take. Some of what I disagree with his probably not particular to her argument but just part of a wider academic/sociological perspective. For instance, part of her argument is based on the idea that "physicality is a masculine trait" (her words), and well I understand this to be a widely held view of gender, it's not one I share or care to perpetuate.

In terms of her take, she views skateboarding as escapism, and while I do agree that it can be that, I think it's also a creative, political, and conscious act for many, myself included. She justifies characterizing it as just a veiled form of mainstream white masculinity, by pointing out that it has contains no institutional critique: I hear this argument made again and again, unsurprisingly always by people working within institutions or institutional frameworks.

I very much appreciate what academics do, and what institutional frameworks make possible, but they also make it basically impossible to allow for or acknowledge forms of cultural production that challenge expertise as an institutional characteristic. Not trying to get jargonny here, I just haven't explained this much, hope you know what I mean. It's quite clear that her values are weighed heavily on the side of the socially normative, The amount of time she spends talking about skateboarding in terms of money and celbrity/pop culture far outweigh the minimal consideration she gives to what she calls "niche" skateboard media and the other forces generated within it, for example the geographic mobility it seems to provide to a large section of skaters (not just pros). Her sample group is also entirely comprised of people she met via a flyer she made and posted at a skate shop. She uses this sample to justify saying there is a lack of ethnic diversity, which seems like a stretch. But I really liked seeing the fairly rigorous academic approach.

As for physicality being a masculine trait... I think it is interesting how gender studies allow us to see that gender is fluid, but then refers back gender in terms of these traditional definitions of masculine and fem. I think your critique makes a lot of sense, but I also don't know how the field gets away from this... maybe a whole new vocab is necessary? I don't know too much about gender so I really don't know. Maybe it is just a contradiction that needs to exist for the sake of simplicity? No clue what the right answer here is.

I go back and forth on skateboarding being a broad institutional critique. I like how Howell framed it:

"But I also believe that there’s something very classist and ageist about this criticism. After all, skateboarding is a culture of young people who don’t yet have the benefits of experience, or education. My parents aren’t college-educated, and nor were the parents of the other kids I grew up around. Sophisticated political consciousness at a young age is almost exclusively a privilege of the affluent. For the rest of us, however, skateboarding is very serious-a way of life. It allows you to assert that you’re not going to walk around as a poster child for MTV, and best of all it allows you to have an incredible amount fun while doing it."

But, I also think that this might be Howell placing his understanding and performance of skateboarding on to the broader community. I wrestle with having to admit that, while framed well, his understanding is too romantic. I think some of us have this political notions, but I can think of most of the dudes I sat around the shop bullshitting with or the dudes who I sat at the park bullshitting with and politics / economics weren't the most exciting topic for them. Maybe we were fighting back by pissing off the owners of property, their security guards, and by appropriating spaces in the city, but maybe this romantic performance of skateboarding is something I wanted to be there and not necessarily something that is there? Most of the dudes I know were pretty happy with the status quo as long as they could skate and use property that wasn't theirs. And, I know a lot of skate dudes who are "liberal" but can't see past the notion of individual agency and fail to ever see how power flows through skateboarding or society.

And, I don't necessarily disagree with the escapism idea. BUT, one thing I get frustrated with in all subcultural studies, is this focus on hedonism for those in subcultures. I'm not sure I fully buy the notion that the middle-class abstains from hedonism (this whole marshmallow bullshit) and the subculture people are different. I think middle/upper class kids might be just as, if not more, hedonistic, but the bar is lower for extreme success when someone has a huge advantage in their starting point in life.

Finally, I thought he sample came from her friends and didn't she date/marry a skate dude? And, I think the racial/ethnic diversity of skateboarding is under estimated, but outside of SF, LA, NYC, etc., I also think it is hard to deny that skateboarding is primarily composed of white skaters and our myth of inclusiveness is often just that, a myth. Same goes for class. We aren't as open as we like to pretend even if there are a few counter-examples here and there. (That being said, I think we are a lot better than a lot of traditional sports.)

[botefdunn]

Thanks for that Lurper, lots of food for thought. couple things. Where's that Howell quote from? very ironic, because his poetics of insecurity was the first place I witnessed the kowtow to institutional definition, don't have the exact quote but he said something about skateboarders lacking political courage, something to that effect. Maybe tenue has given him courage, or just the changing academic landscape, it's becoming more and more academically legit so his audience doesn't need to be mollified in the same way. I do love Ocean's work and everything he's done for skating but that always stuck in the ol' craw. Um, yes most skaters are white but I believe that even looked at historically if you contrast the makeup of skating with wider north american society, you'll find a greater mixing of peoples than is present in other places, such as most working environments, residential neighbourhoods, schools, sports, etc. My point is for sure not that skating is perfect, only that it is progressive and willfully accomodating and open than most other communities or groups in the society in which it findfs itself. So yes, skating in Yochim's Michigan town is probably predominantly white: but if it is less segregated than other cross sections of her community and espouses a philosophy of openness and acceptance based on common interest, it seems misleading to characterizing based on a quality that is less inherent to it than it probably is to Yochim's own University department. Even in this day and age, I see less cultural and ethnic diversity in most humanities departments than I do in skateboarding. And this despite the heavy "institutional critique" of this fact. It's a big topic and I'm out past curfew, see you later fellow skate nerds!

[Banned from the room]

I'm looking for inspiring content today.

I'm painting all death and suicide stuff in black and grey.

It kinda sucks