Skateboarder Vs. Stand Your Ground Laws

[BALARGUE]

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civilians owning guns will never make sense

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here we go--this shit kills me and i don't want to send this thread any further off in this tangential direction, but fuck you.

"civilians owning guns will never make sense"? so, just the state with all of its increasingly militarized police forces and government agencies throughout this country should be armed? right...how white of you.

hey, the IRS is hiring, maybe you should apply...87,000 new "agents" and providing them with tactical training and everything. they've purchased nearly 5000 guns and over $700,000 in ammunition in the past year alone...you sound perfect for the job...

sorry i couldn't hold myself back. i actually have no interest in debating this topic either.
I wrote it and/or you read it the wrong way. so be it but you didn't need to go for the throat

[Deputy Wendell]

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civilians owning guns will never make sense

[close]

here we go--this shit kills me and i don't want to send this thread any further off in this tangential direction, but fuck you.

"civilians owning guns will never make sense"? so, just the state with all of its increasingly militarized police forces and government agencies throughout this country should be armed? right...how white of you.

hey, the IRS is hiring, maybe you should apply...87,000 new "agents" and providing them with tactical training and everything. they've purchased nearly 5000 guns and over $700,000 in ammunition in the past year alone...you sound perfect for the job...

[close]

sorry i couldn't hold myself back. i actually have no interest in debating this topic either.
I wrote it and/or you read it the wrong way. so be it but you didn't need to go for the throat

hey, @BALARGUE -- i don't take down posts, but after posting that i realized how belligerent it sounds--i apologize for coming at you like that.

i'm sincerely troubled by where this country is--and is heading--and i realize that at times it's making me a mean old fuck...i'm working on it...

[mj23]

so, do you feel safer knowing everyone likely is armed?

Fuck no.

[TastyBurrito]

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so, do you feel safer knowing everyone likely is armed?

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Fuck no.

I feel this way about the "good guy with a gun" mentality. Sure, someone with a gun could be there, but do they have the training to assess the danger? Or will they just whip out a gun and start firing with no concern for the stray bullets?

Like the UPS incident where police were so gung-ho about being in a cowboy style shoot out there were callously taking cover behind cars with people still in it and ended up killing the hostage. Gun nuts outnumber responsible gun owners and those gun nuts are obsessed with being in a western style gun battle.

Also, personally, as a person of color, I wouldn't whip out a gun and start firing back because the fear of cops finally coming in and not knowing the situation and firing on the first colored person they see. Reminds me of the bouncer in Illinois who disarmed a violent person and when the cops came, and while people were yelling he was the security and wearing clothing labeled "security," the police fired on him with no hesitation, killing him.

[Abyss1]

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so, do you feel safer knowing everyone likely is armed?

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Fuck no.

For real its like saying do you feel safer with more cops in your neighborhood (as a person of color also fuck no)

[I_Respect_Wood]

 I´m very shock on how the dude skating didn´t care or got scared by this guy holding a gun and aproaching to him, like is a everyday normal thing. United States is a crazy place.

[$$LESH]

I´m very shock on how the dude skating didn´t care or got scared by this guy holding a gun and aproaching to him, like is a everyday normal thing. United States is a crazy place.

for what it’s worth, he’s from florida.

[I_Respect_Wood]

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I´m very shock on how the dude skating didn´t care or got scared by this guy holding a gun and aproaching to him, like is a everyday normal thing. United States is a crazy place.

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for what it’s worth, he’s from florida.

LOL

[Gene_Harrogate]

Tesla guy looked like a clumsy oaf trying to get that gun prepared. Should never be allowed to own a gun

Reminds me of the McCloskeys

[Brad Wesley]

here we go--this shit kills me and i don't want to send this thread any further off in this tangential direction, but fuck you.

"civilians owning guns will never make sense"? so, just the state with all of its increasingly militarized police forces and government agencies throughout this country should be armed? right...how white of you.

hey, the IRS is hiring, maybe you should apply...87,000 new "agents" and providing them with tactical training and everything. they've purchased nearly 5000 guns and over $700,000 in ammunition in the past year alone...you sound perfect for the job...

The 87,000 figure is a shifting estimate of the number of positions the IRS wants to fill - most of which are clerical/support/IT desk jobs that they lost to budget cuts and people retiring. "87,000 armed enforcement agents" is another right wing fiction designed to scare aging white suburbanites.

civilians owning guns will never make sense

Civilians owning guns sometimes makes sense.

[TwisT]

just to update the original story,

https://ktar.com/story/5205864/gilbert-police-seize-gun-seen-in-viral-video-of-man-confronting-skateboarder/

Dude had nothing to do with the property what so ever, literally just some random asshole on a power/ego trip.

[Theme For A Jackal]

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civilians owning guns will never make sense

[close]

here we go--this shit kills me and i don't want to send this thread any further off in this tangential direction, but fuck you.

"civilians owning guns will never make sense"? so, just the state with all of its increasingly militarized police forces and government agencies throughout this country should be armed? right...how white of you.

hey, the IRS is hiring, maybe you should apply...87,000 new "agents" and providing them with tactical training and everything. they've purchased nearly 5000 guns and over $700,000 in ammunition in the past year alone...you sound perfect for the job...

[close]

sorry i couldn't hold myself back. i actually have no interest in debating this topic either.
I wrote it and/or you read it the wrong way. so be it but you didn't need to go for the throat

[close]

hey, @BALARGUE -- i don't take down posts, but after posting that i realized how belligerent it sounds--i apologize for coming at you like that.

i'm sincerely troubled by where this country is--and is heading--and i realize that at times it's making me a mean old fuck...i'm working on it...

I get what you’re saying but do you really think you and your AR are going to fight back waves of organized government agents? In whatever Waco-esque hypothetical scenario you’ve got playing in your mind you’re already fucked when they decide you’re a problem

[fulfillthedream]

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Canadian here. I have fired two guns in my life. At a range, with my mom for her birthday and a shotgun in an old quarry way up north. Not a gun guy at all.
My question is. Do Americans constantly think about the possibility of somebody else having a gun in every single confrontation or disagreement in public?
I feel like it would always be on my mind.

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I don't honk at people in traffic anymore. Too many people in Houston get shot for that.
I occasionally will, but only if its in traffic with other people around and they aren't driving a vehicle with gun nut stickers all over or something.

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grew up down there with a dad who had an itchy horn finger, was absolutely insane with it. went back to visit recently and not a single beep. and it's not like he's gotten more chill about driving in houston, it's definitely the threat of getting shot. it's wild down there now

unrelated to the thread but i heard a lot of car break ins in texas - the first thing thieves look for is guns that are in the glove  compartment

https://www.kens5.com/article/news/local/hundreds-of-guns-stolen-from-vehicles-in-san-antonio-this-year-police-say/273-11c17ac6-38cb-437d-8d9e-04d7b655af5d

[Maurice46]

just to update the original story,

https://ktar.com/story/5205864/gilbert-police-seize-gun-seen-in-viral-video-of-man-confronting-skateboarder/

Dude had nothing to do with the property what so ever, literally just some random asshole on a power/ego trip.

Also, another thing to note, the guy was not arrested. The police just confiscated his gun. A dude did something similar, in Florida of course (See below), but brandished an assault style rifle and the cops didn't arrest either. Even with video evidence (white) gun owners are deferred to in SYG law states. 

https://www.cltampa.com/news/video-shows-tampa-bay-man-pulling-an-ar-style-gun-on-black-landscapers-13761432

[Deputy Wendell]

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civilians owning guns will never make sense

[close]

here we go--this shit kills me and i don't want to send this thread any further off in this tangential direction, but fuck you.

"civilians owning guns will never make sense"? so, just the state with all of its increasingly militarized police forces and government agencies throughout this country should be armed? right...how white of you.

hey, the IRS is hiring, maybe you should apply...87,000 new "agents" and providing them with tactical training and everything. they've purchased nearly 5000 guns and over $700,000 in ammunition in the past year alone...you sound perfect for the job...

[close]

sorry i couldn't hold myself back. i actually have no interest in debating this topic either.
I wrote it and/or you read it the wrong way. so be it but you didn't need to go for the throat

[close]

hey, @BALARGUE -- i don't take down posts, but after posting that i realized how belligerent it sounds--i apologize for coming at you like that.

i'm sincerely troubled by where this country is--and is heading--and i realize that at times it's making me a mean old fuck...i'm working on it...

[close]

I get what you’re saying but do you really think you and your AR are going to fight back waves of organized government agents? In whatever Waco-esque hypothetical scenario you’ve got playing in your mind you’re already fucked when they decide you’re a problem

do you get what i'm saying? cool, that makes me feel better.

i've never owned an AR in my life, and i just shot one for the first time this summer.

sorry that i have faith in the people around me to act collectively "when they decide [we're] a problem." perhaps this is the result of being fortunate--as i am--to be part of a solid network of excellent and dependable family, friends, and neighbors. you've clearly decided that you'll just let them roll right over you, so good luck with that too...

[cky enthusiast]

[Maurice46]

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civilians owning guns will never make sense

[close]

here we go--this shit kills me and i don't want to send this thread any further off in this tangential direction, but fuck you.

"civilians owning guns will never make sense"? so, just the state with all of its increasingly militarized police forces and government agencies throughout this country should be armed? right...how white of you.

hey, the IRS is hiring, maybe you should apply...87,000 new "agents" and providing them with tactical training and everything. they've purchased nearly 5000 guns and over $700,000 in ammunition in the past year alone...you sound perfect for the job...

[close]

sorry i couldn't hold myself back. i actually have no interest in debating this topic either.
I wrote it and/or you read it the wrong way. so be it but you didn't need to go for the throat

[close]

hey, @BALARGUE -- i don't take down posts, but after posting that i realized how belligerent it sounds--i apologize for coming at you like that.

i'm sincerely troubled by where this country is--and is heading--and i realize that at times it's making me a mean old fuck...i'm working on it...

[close]

I get what you’re saying but do you really think you and your AR are going to fight back waves of organized government agents? In whatever Waco-esque hypothetical scenario you’ve got playing in your mind you’re already fucked when they decide you’re a problem

You are correct. Not only that, beyond the reality of monopoly of force that the US government has, the truth is that the expansion of the IRS is not some ominous "they are coming for us" scenario and is largely bringing staff numbers back up to what they were a decade ago and expanding support in areas like corporate tax fraud, customer service, and IT/cybercrime. Moreover, 87,000 new hires over 10 years ( a portion of which will replace outgoing retirees) plus the current 80k staff is 170K total. That would be for a country of 148 million individual tax payers, roughly 1 per 1000. That's not even taking into account all of the other dimensions of tax collection work that has nothing to do with individual filers. By comparison, Deloitte, the largest corporate accounting firm has 335k employees. The plans for this expansion are freely available for anyone who is serious about understanding what's going on (see below). Now of course some people won't believe any of this no matter what so there is that.

https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/136/The-American-Families-Plan-Tax-Compliance-Agenda.pdf

 

[Sloppy Krooks]

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civilians owning guns will never make sense

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here we go--this shit kills me and i don't want to send this thread any further off in this tangential direction, but fuck you.

"civilians owning guns will never make sense"? so, just the state with all of its increasingly militarized police forces and government agencies throughout this country should be armed? right...how white of you.

hey, the IRS is hiring, maybe you should apply...87,000 new "agents" and providing them with tactical training and everything. they've purchased nearly 5000 guns and over $700,000 in ammunition in the past year alone...you sound perfect for the job...

I get what both of you are saying. But i think the BALARGUE is talking about what kind of society gets to the point where civilians having guns makes sense. The US is a total freak in this sense, with a national mythology that glorifies violence as a way to deal with problems. It infects not just the general society on the gun issue, but informs the government in how to deal with its own population.

Yes, i get that the US has an internal arms race against itself, where because some people have guns everyone has to have them. No one wins that. I think that is what doesn’t make sense’..

[JRF]

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To the Canadians that wonder about America’s gun violence should look at there own backyard “Toronto gun violence” is up there with Chicago nowadays.

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This is not even remotely true. Just a complete falsehood, based on a reading of newspaper headlines. Chicago had nearly 800% the number of homicides in 2021 as did Toronto. All of Canada had fewer homicides than Chicago did in 2021.

Read this awhile ago, might not be topping, but maybe catching up?

https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/warmington-move-over-chicago-gun-violence-in-toronto-is-catching-up/wcm/fbf86e9d-bca1-4a4c-8cf7-e2640cf0e325/amp/

So maybe it’s an over hyped statistic/news headline..But there’s been mass shootings all around the world and not every corner of America is gun happy. But no one will ever beat Chicago I guess. If you look at gun laws in Chicago it’s obvious that gun laws/restrictions don’t do dick to decrease gun violence


That being said, do you think that Gabriel Wortman was less of a threat than Payton Gendron?

[manysnakes]

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civilians owning guns will never make sense

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hey, the IRS is hiring, maybe you should apply...87,000 new "agents" and providing them with tactical training and everything. they've purchased nearly 5000 guns and over $700,000 in ammunition in the past year alone...you sound perfect for the job...

lmao come the fuck on, man. It's a budget for the potential hire of 87,000 IRS agents, an agency which has been understaffed for more than a decade and is supposed to lose 54,000 "agents" to retirement over the next ten years. How many tax collectors do you think a country of 335,000,000 people should have?

[JRF]

civilians owning guns will never make sense

Pretty sure the waffen SS had the same sentiment

[JRF]

Take what I’m saying with a grain of salt, I don’t really give two shits about guns really. I think there’s a lot of stupid idiots that own guns and there’s plenty of responsible gun owners too, most likely. The world would be a better place if guns were never invented, but unfortunately, that’s not the world we live in.

[JRF]

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To the Canadians that wonder about America’s gun violence should look at there own backyard “Toronto gun violence” is up there with Chicago nowadays. Regardless, I agree about how fucked up these idiots are pointing guns at people and shooting into cars due to road rage, it’s fucked up.. I’m not a huge gun advocate(I did have my 2A rights reinstated with the expungement of my two non-violent felony convictions) but I still know that one of the biggest rules of gun safety is “never point a gun at something or someone you are not ready to completely destroy”.

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https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=3510007101

Homicides   Number of homicide victims
Geography   2017   2018   2019   2020   2021
Number
Canada (map)   667   662   689   759   788
Toronto, Ontario5 (map)   93   145   130   105   117
https://graphics.suntimes.com/homicides/
794 victims were killed in Chicago in 2021.

Chicago’s population 2022- almost 9 million

Toronto’s population 2022- 6 million.

So yes, you’re definitely right, Toronto dosent hold a candle to chicago’s gun violence..

Statistics say’s that I should definitely retract that statement for sure..

[UselessAsshole]

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To the Canadians that wonder about America’s gun violence should look at there own backyard “Toronto gun violence” is up there with Chicago nowadays. Regardless, I agree about how fucked up these idiots are pointing guns at people and shooting into cars due to road rage, it’s fucked up.. I’m not a huge gun advocate(I did have my 2A rights reinstated with the expungement of my two non-violent felony convictions) but I still know that one of the biggest rules of gun safety is “never point a gun at something or someone you are not ready to completely destroy”.

[close]

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=3510007101

Homicides   Number of homicide victims
Geography   2017   2018   2019   2020   2021
Number
Canada (map)   667   662   689   759   788
Toronto, Ontario5 (map)   93   145   130   105   117
https://graphics.suntimes.com/homicides/
794 victims were killed in Chicago in 2021.

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Chicago’s population 2022- almost 9 million

Toronto’s population 2022- 6 million.

So yes, you’re definitely right, Toronto dosent hold a candle to chicago’s gun violence..

Statistics say’s that I should definitely retract that statement for sure..

I think that's the population of the entire Chicagoland (metropolitan) area. Pretty sure Chicago itself has less than or around 3 million.

[Frank]

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civilians owning guns will never make sense

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Pretty sure the waffen SS had the same sentiment

the nazis loosened the strict gun control  laws of the weimar republic

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_gun_control_argument

[nonickname]

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To the Canadians that wonder about America’s gun violence should look at there own backyard “Toronto gun violence” is up there with Chicago nowadays. Regardless, I agree about how fucked up these idiots are pointing guns at people and shooting into cars due to road rage, it’s fucked up.. I’m not a huge gun advocate(I did have my 2A rights reinstated with the expungement of my two non-violent felony convictions) but I still know that one of the biggest rules of gun safety is “never point a gun at something or someone you are not ready to completely destroy”.

[close]

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=3510007101

Homicides   Number of homicide victims
Geography   2017   2018   2019   2020   2021
Number
Canada (map)   667   662   689   759   788
Toronto, Ontario5 (map)   93   145   130   105   117
https://graphics.suntimes.com/homicides/
794 victims were killed in Chicago in 2021.

[close]

Chicago’s population 2022- almost 9 million

Toronto’s population 2022- 6 million.

So yes, you’re definitely right, Toronto dosent hold a candle to chicago’s gun violence..

Statistics say’s that I should definitely retract that statement for sure..

[close]

I think that's the population of the entire Chicagoland (metropolitan) area. Pretty sure Chicago itself has less than or around 3 million.

Same deal for Toronto. The city is 2.97 million - but the GTA is 6 million (includes Mississauga, Brampton, Vaughn, Pickering etc - it's a huge area).

[JRF]

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civilians owning guns will never make sense

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Pretty sure the waffen SS had the same sentiment

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the nazis loosened the strict gun control  laws of the weimar republic

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_gun_control_argument

I’m sure that there’s an argument for this, but, im not going to take a Wikipedia page asa concrete fact. Just

[Salad farmer]

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civilians owning guns will never make sense

[close]

Pretty sure the waffen SS had the same sentiment

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the nazis loosened the strict gun control  laws of the weimar republic

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_gun_control_argument

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I’m sure that there’s an argument for this, but, im not going to take a Wikipedia page asa concrete fact. Just

https://scholarship.law.columbia.edu/faculty_scholarship/1327/
Click download and you can read the paper.

[JRF]

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civilians owning guns will never make sense

[close]

Pretty sure the waffen SS had the same sentiment

[close]

the nazis loosened the strict gun control  laws of the weimar republic

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_gun_control_argument

[close]

I’m sure that there’s an argument for this, but, im not going to take a Wikipedia page asa concrete fact. Just

[close]

https://scholarship.law.columbia.edu/faculty_scholarship/1327/
Click download and you can read the paper.

Thanks for the link, I’ll definitely read it. I think it’s definitely an interesting topic for sure

[Frank]

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civilians owning guns will never make sense

[close]

Pretty sure the waffen SS had the same sentiment

[close]

the nazis loosened the strict gun control  laws of the weimar republic

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_gun_control_argument

[close]

I’m sure that there’s an argument for this, but, im not going to take a Wikipedia page asa concrete fact. Just

this is not a conspiracy theory tho. you do know the nazis didn't come to power by a coup detat? they didnt need guns for that. they were voted in, elevated by their centrist major partner.

you can trust me cause i am german and i live here and we learn extensively about this time period of course. what source would be legit to you? i picked the wiki page to keep it short.

do you think a few jews and antifascists with a few domestic shotguns and rifles could have stopped the nazi regime? dude fucking two thirds of germany's was just hardcore into racism and fascism, it's not something that could have gone either just because a few marginalized and threatened arm themselves.

and even the most famous german resistance group the white rose was merely doing some diy counterpropaganda. at that point, lots of germans still also had guns. open carrying was more or less legal until world war 1. during the weimar republic everyone got to keep their guns, too, so there were plenty around. it's not like germans didnt have access to them. we are still one of the most armed countries in europe. we have more guns in private hands than switzerland, where everyone who served the military gets to keep their rifle after iirc.