The Indy Thread

[Skatebrain]

Not sure why they wouldn’t throw an inverted kingpin in these.   An almost perfect truck, but you do get kingpin hang up on smiths particularity on skatepark ledges.   

[Teethcanbesexy]

I’d skate a forged hollow stage 4

[Obijuan91]

I’d skate a forged hollow stage 4

I think that’s what maurio McCoy skates

[Rick Trapasso]

Not sure why they wouldn’t throw an inverted kingpin in these.   An almost perfect truck, but you do get kingpin hang up on smiths particularity on skatepark ledges.   

Believe it or not, there is not a single trick done with an inverted kingpin that wasn't done first with a regular one. (Aside from coming loose on their own)

Just grind it down and use wax as our forefathers did.

It's that simple.

[tzhangdox]

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Not sure why they wouldn’t throw an inverted kingpin in these.   An almost perfect truck, but you do get kingpin hang up on smiths particularity on skatepark ledges.   

[close]

Believe it or not, there is not a single trick done with an inverted kingpin that wasn't done first with a regular one. (Aside from coming loose on their own)

Just grind it down and use wax as our forefathers did.

It's that simple.

You can make that argument anytime anybody wants to modify/improve a part of their setup.

The process of grinding the kingpin down is a pain in the ass. It also sucks if you need to adjust your trucks.

[Mbrimson88]

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Not sure why they wouldn’t throw an inverted kingpin in these.   An almost perfect truck, but you do get kingpin hang up on smiths particularity on skatepark ledges.   

[close]

Believe it or not, there is not a single trick done with an inverted kingpin that wasn't done first with a regular one. (Aside from coming loose on their own)

Just grind it down and use wax as our forefathers did.

It's that simple.

[close]

You can make that argument anytime anybody wants to modify/improve a part of their setup.

The process of grinding the kingpin down is a pain in the ass. It also sucks if you need to adjust your trucks.

I have definitely seen some horror trucks - had to get power tools out to even get the kingpin nut off, before doing anything else on some of them, or the person got the nut off and then couldn't get it back on no matter what they tried, especially on some well worn trucks, eg hangers close to axle, or even almost right through it.

Usually I can round off the kingpin head a little with an angle grinder and then use a rethreader on it to clean it up nicely so any nut will not get mashed when trying to get one on or off.  In this way, I started doing that to begin with on any new trucks, which seemed to help a whole lot, so I wouldn't need an inverted kingpin, but I guess it also depends on how much clearance you really want.

Some people like Reynolds get the kingpins taken down a couple of mm, while some others I have seen video of them angle grinding kingpins down when they keep getting caught on things, so I guess once you have the tools and the know how, it is not that big a deal.

Since trying the inverted kingpin baseplates and even making a couple of my own DIY Indy inverted kingpins, it really does give so much more clearance though, so I understand why some people like to go that way.

Even Lance Mountain doing just the inverted kingpin on the back truck as that is the one that got caught for him (resulting in a broken bone), which is fair enough given how he skates.

Each to their own in that regard.

[swongolianbbq]

I heard the aftermarket 6-hole baseplates have a longer kingpin

But I realized the cheaper option would be to just get the thinner version of the 3/8 24 kingpin nuts

Though I'm not super interested in loosening up that way after trying orange Indy bushings with the top ones cut down 2mm. All it did was make it less stable on center and didn't seem to change how deep I could turn, or how easy I could pinch.

Then I decided I was going to try 88 bottom / 92 top

Then I just said fuck it gave up on the madness, focus my energy elsewhere and just skate regular ass orange bushings, maybe try the aftermarket baseplates some time.

But for all the folks that make their indys looser by straight up just not running a washer or two, the thin 3/8 24 nuts are a good option

[Rick Trapasso]

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Not sure why they wouldn’t throw an inverted kingpin in these.   An almost perfect truck, but you do get kingpin hang up on smiths particularity on skatepark ledges.   

[close]

Believe it or not, there is not a single trick done with an inverted kingpin that wasn't done first with a regular one. (Aside from coming loose on their own)

Just grind it down and use wax as our forefathers did.

It's that simple.

[close]

You can make that argument anytime anybody wants to modify/improve a part of their setup.

The process of grinding the kingpin down is a pain in the ass. It also sucks if you need to adjust your trucks.

I feel you. I just can't help but feel the recent Renaissance of the IKP is really being pushed for by people that would be better off just spending more time skating than thinking about their setup.

And I'm saying this as someone who has historically over thought his setup. I even went through an IKP phase with a krux pin on some ace classics a while back, just because I was having trouble smithing this concrete ledge. It slightly helped, but in the end just improving my technique and working my regular trucks in left me with a better smith on that ledge than the IKP aces I concocted.

Not to mention all the fussing with jb weld and self loosening and not being able to see how tight they were.


And to add to all of this (definitely rambling now), every pro I've ever wanted to skate like has gotten the full lifespan out of a truck despite a regular kingpin getting mangled, and been able to do any trick I could ever dream of doing. You just kinda tighten a bit as you go, after the break in period of course, and before the pin and nut have fused.

By all means, people should/can experiment with their setup, but sometimes I read things from others that make me think about the depths of my madness over the last 8 years or so and how I tried nearly every truck/board/wheel shape combo from 8.25 -8.6 and I just ended up skating 8.38 14.5wb dlx, 149 Indy standards, and 56mm f4 classics in the end.

The most vanilla ass setup.

Tinkering and experimenting can be fun, but for myself (and others from what I've read in the madness thread) it winds up being more of a point of stress rather than exploration and enjoyment. So if I'm trying to say anything it's that you should make sure worrying about your setup doesn't impact the enjoyment you get while skating. If tinkering with you setup, tread lightly and make sure you still enjoy your session.

Having a child has greatly shifted my perspective on how I engage with my more limited time on my skateboard lol.

End rant, sorry for that. <3

[Sedition]

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Not sure why they wouldn’t throw an inverted kingpin in these.   An almost perfect truck, but you do get kingpin hang up on smiths particularity on skatepark ledges.   

[close]

Believe it or not, there is not a single trick done with an inverted kingpin that wasn't done first with a regular one. (Aside from coming loose on their own)

Just grind it down and use wax as our forefathers did.

It's that simple.

[close]

You can make that argument anytime anybody wants to modify/improve a part of their setup.

The process of grinding the kingpin down is a pain in the ass. It also sucks if you need to adjust your trucks.

[close]

I feel you. I just can't help but feel the recent Renaissance of the IKP is really being pushed for by people that would be better off just spending more time skating than thinking about their setup.

And I'm saying this as someone who has historically over thought his setup. I even went through an IKP phase with a krux pin on some ace classics a while back, just because I was having trouble smithing this concrete ledge. It slightly helped, but in the end just improving my technique and working my regular trucks in left me with a better smith on that ledge than the IKP aces I concocted.

Not to mention all the fussing with jb weld and self loosening and not being able to see how tight they were.


And to add to all of this (definitely rambling now), every pro I've ever wanted to skate like has gotten the full lifespan out of a truck despite a regular kingpin getting mangled, and been able to do any trick I could ever dream of doing. You just kinda tighten a bit as you go, after the break in period of course, and before the pin and nut have fused.

By all means, people should/can experiment with their setup, but sometimes I read things from others that make me think about the depths of my madness over the last 8 years or so and how I tried nearly every truck/board/wheel shape combo from 8.25 -8.6 and I just ended up skating 8.38 14.5wb dlx, 149 Indy standards, and 56mm f4 classics in the end.

The most vanilla ass setup.

Tinkering and experimenting can be fun, but for myself (and others from what I've read in the madness thread) it winds up being more of a point of stress rather than exploration and enjoyment. So if I'm trying to say anything it's that you should make sure worrying about your setup doesn't impact the enjoyment you get while skating. If tinkering with you setup, tread lightly and make sure you still enjoy your session.

Having a child has greatly shifted my perspective on how I engage with my more limited time on my skateboard lol.

End rant, sorry for that. <3

10000% agree.

And, you should repost this in the Madness thread.

[SwitchBenihana]

Is IKP necessary? No. If it doesn't slip is it improvement over standard? There is zero argument for "no". Did we need all the advancements in shoe technology? No, people skated just fine, but it's obviously massive improvement. Same with wheel formulas. The innovation is creating better products like Dragon/x formula/soft slider and interesting shapes that lots of people love.

Personally speaking this is such an easy thing to get right. Plenty of applications have a bolt under compression that doesn't back out. I like that this is pushing companies to think more critically about their truck designs. IKP is more useful than the next Indy clone for people who want to just make it a point that they don't ride Indy. I'd like to see companies make these improvements to their existing trucks because there is zero downside if they do it right. Ace did it right their first try, other companies have been mostly lazy about QA.

[rikki]

Just wanted to butt in to remind y'all that Indy Standard 149's are the bee's fucking knees. Was on a random stint on Thunder Team 148's for a while and boy did I feel like coming home yesterday when I swapped my Indys back on. Feeling that mojo again.

[swongolianbbq]

Just wanted to butt in to remind y'all that Indy Standard 149's are the bee's fucking knees. Was on a random stint on Thunder Team 148's for a while and boy did I feel like coming home yesterday when I swapped my Indys back on. Feeling that mojo again.

Standard 149s are the best truck of all time

[Slave IV]

Is IKP necessary? No. If it doesn't slip is it improvement over standard? There is zero argument for "no". Did we need all the advancements in shoe technology? No, people skated just fine, but it's obviously massive improvement. Same with wheel formulas. The innovation is creating better products like Dragon/x formula/soft slider and interesting shapes that lots of people love.

Personally speaking this is such an easy thing to get right. Plenty of applications have a bolt under compression that doesn't back out. I like that this is pushing companies to think more critically about their truck designs. IKP is more useful than the next Indy clone for people who want to just make it a point that they don't ride Indy. I'd like to see companies make these improvements to their existing trucks because there is zero downside if they do it right. Ace did it right their first try, other companies have been mostly lazy about QA.

I've never bothered for IKP but I'd try the Ace version if I ever wanted to since they seem to have solved the loosening issue, but it's probably too early to say. They may also have a solution to giving you a reference of tightness with the clicking but not sure how practical it is. To that point, I'd say the there is an argument for "No" for people who do want a visual reference to how much their trucks are tightened. To me, my trucks are the right tightness when they feel right but I don't like threads showing and I don't want to manually grind anything other than actually doing grind tricks.

[hiljentaa]

But for all the folks that make their indys looser by straight up just not running a washer or two, the thin 3/8 24 nuts are a good option

Damn, I didn't know those existed. Where did you find them?

[FrAnKenFrEd]

Is IKP necessary? No. If it doesn't slip is it improvement over standard? There is zero argument for "no". Did we need all the advancements in shoe technology? No, people skated just fine, but it's obviously massive improvement. Same with wheel formulas. The innovation is creating better products like Dragon/x formula/soft slider and interesting shapes that lots of people love.

Personally speaking this is such an easy thing to get right. Plenty of applications have a bolt under compression that doesn't back out. I like that this is pushing companies to think more critically about their truck designs. IKP is more useful than the next Indy clone for people who want to just make it a point that they don't ride Indy. I'd like to see companies make these improvements to their existing trucks because there is zero downside if they do it right. Ace did it right their first try, other companies have been mostly lazy about QA.

Even good IKP set ups can limit/ change the turn or feel or a trucks a bit. Its pretty negligible but its perceptible.

[swongolianbbq]

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But for all the folks that make their indys looser by straight up just not running a washer or two, the thin 3/8 24 nuts are a good option

[close]

Damn, I didn't know those existed. Where did you find them?

I thought about the nuts that come with Shorty's 7/8" bolts, and I googled "thin 3/8 24 nuts" and there were a bunch of options. Might be at a local hardware store too

[DarkPools]

Wanna know the easiest solution to this IKP discussion??

Just be bad at skating and never learn how to Smith so you don't have to worry about kingpin hangups hahah

Yes, I'm coping because I don't know how to do smith grinds, only occasional stalls on curbs/quarters 

[tzhangdox]

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Not sure why they wouldn’t throw an inverted kingpin in these.   An almost perfect truck, but you do get kingpin hang up on smiths particularity on skatepark ledges.   

[close]

Believe it or not, there is not a single trick done with an inverted kingpin that wasn't done first with a regular one. (Aside from coming loose on their own)

Just grind it down and use wax as our forefathers did.

It's that simple.

[close]

You can make that argument anytime anybody wants to modify/improve a part of their setup.

The process of grinding the kingpin down is a pain in the ass. It also sucks if you need to adjust your trucks.

[close]

I feel you. I just can't help but feel the recent Renaissance of the IKP is really being pushed for by people that would be better off just spending more time skating than thinking about their setup.

And I'm saying this as someone who has historically over thought his setup. I even went through an IKP phase with a krux pin on some ace classics a while back, just because I was having trouble smithing this concrete ledge. It slightly helped, but in the end just improving my technique and working my regular trucks in left me with a better smith on that ledge than the IKP aces I concocted.

Not to mention all the fussing with jb weld and self loosening and not being able to see how tight they were.


And to add to all of this (definitely rambling now), every pro I've ever wanted to skate like has gotten the full lifespan out of a truck despite a regular kingpin getting mangled, and been able to do any trick I could ever dream of doing. You just kinda tighten a bit as you go, after the break in period of course, and before the pin and nut have fused.

By all means, people should/can experiment with their setup, but sometimes I read things from others that make me think about the depths of my madness over the last 8 years or so and how I tried nearly every truck/board/wheel shape combo from 8.25 -8.6 and I just ended up skating 8.38 14.5wb dlx, 149 Indy standards, and 56mm f4 classics in the end.

The most vanilla ass setup.

Tinkering and experimenting can be fun, but for myself (and others from what I've read in the madness thread) it winds up being more of a point of stress rather than exploration and enjoyment. So if I'm trying to say anything it's that you should make sure worrying about your setup doesn't impact the enjoyment you get while skating. If tinkering with you setup, tread lightly and make sure you still enjoy your session.

Having a child has greatly shifted my perspective on how I engage with my more limited time on my skateboard lol.

End rant, sorry for that. <3

Yeah all fair. I do see people sometimes go the ikp route when their skating doesn't necessarily need it. Seen people do the craziest diy inverted kingpin jobs, then I look at their footage and there is zero sign of any smith/feeble dippage that requires nearly that amount of clearance.

Even as someone who loves to do various smith grinds, I personally try to avoid most ikp trucks just due to the quality control issues. Never had a set that didn't go to shit. Plus I like ventures and they come with plenty of clearance out the gate.

I do hear the ace ikp tech is pretty good, but aces aren't my truck. Thunder is going to drop the T2 with the ace ikp tech soon (I believe ace licensed it to them), that sounds pretty cool.

But yeah, despite seeing people go way overboard with ikp mods and not even skating ikps my self, I still disagree with the premise that IKPs are universally not worth it.

Despite the issues that come with most ikps, more of a demand for them will push the technology to improve. As we've seen with the ace ikps, which seem to solve most of the traditional ikp issues.

Also, even if you technically can do smiths on trucks that have bad clearance, its objectively worse. I have a lot of friends that have ridden thunders, venture lows, lurpivs etc and they all have to go through the annoying process of grinding down their kingpin before they can properly dip their grinds.

Not being able to smith properly out the gate and then later dealing with a mangled regular kingpin are both annoying, but fixable problems that shouldn't HAVE to exist.

[SwitchBenihana]

Expand Quote

Is IKP necessary? No. If it doesn't slip is it improvement over standard? There is zero argument for "no". Did we need all the advancements in shoe technology? No, people skated just fine, but it's obviously massive improvement. Same with wheel formulas. The innovation is creating better products like Dragon/x formula/soft slider and interesting shapes that lots of people love.

Personally speaking this is such an easy thing to get right. Plenty of applications have a bolt under compression that doesn't back out. I like that this is pushing companies to think more critically about their truck designs. IKP is more useful than the next Indy clone for people who want to just make it a point that they don't ride Indy. I'd like to see companies make these improvements to their existing trucks because there is zero downside if they do it right. Ace did it right their first try, other companies have been mostly lazy about QA.

[close]

Even good IKP set ups can limit/ change the turn or feel or a trucks a bit. Its pretty negligible but its perceptible.

If the bushings and washers are the same there is absolutely no way this is possible. Probably stems from most people who DIY IKP also being into micromanaging bushings and washers as well. A bushing will deform the same with either kingpin as long as the kingpin is set in place and doesn't move in any way.

I have the AF1 IKP and they turn exactly the same as normal AF1.

[swongolianbbq]

On Kevin baekkel's "my indys" he's got 159 titanium hangers on cast hollow baseplates on an 8.6

Idk how dressen skates those white Indy bushings that's rad

[Spacecase]

Forgot I had these lying around. Found it interesting that they have the iron cross on the bottom but not on the front.

[FrAnKenFrEd]

there is absolutely no way this is possible.

I have the AF1 IKP and they turn exactly the same as normal AF1.

So do I and they turn slightly different with IKPs IMO. Same bushings. Your experience obviously differs. good for you. but, yes it is indeed "possible."

As for smiths. I actually lost them for a bit on IKPs... Something about the KP helped me lock in... Thankfully got them back and now they do grind better....

[Rick Trapasso]

Wanna know the easiest solution to this IKP discussion??

Just be bad at skating and never learn how to Smith so you don't have to worry about kingpin hangups hahah

Yes, I'm coping because I don't know how to do smith grinds, only occasional stalls on curbs/quarters 

Peak enlightenment right here.

@tzhangdox I didn't wanna quote both our long ass posts again and clog the thread, but I read your reply and those are all valid assertions. It has been a pleasure discussing these incredibly niche nuances with you my friend.

[logjammin]

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there is absolutely no way this is possible.

I have the AF1 IKP and they turn exactly the same as normal AF1.

[close]

So do I and they turn slightly different with IKPs IMO. Same bushings. Your experience obviously differs. good for you. but, yes it is indeed "possible."

As for smiths. I actually lost them for a bit on IKPs... Something about the KP helped me lock in... Thankfully got them back and now they do grind better....

I absolutely agree that it's noticeable. trucks like ace's, indy 215's/stage 4's come with tall top bushings compared to every other truck on the market and go figure...they turn more than the rest. more bushing=more turn. replace the top bushings on those examples with ones significantly shorter and the turn becomes floppy and wheelbites quicker.

ace standard height top bushings have a perfect taper and run excellent without a top washer, so you can equal the height of a different truck's total top bushing+washer height by just running the ace tops. I bet if you did it with the T2's while keeping the bottoms stock, you'd more than likely feel the turn improve.

[Mbrimson88]

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But for all the folks that make their indys looser by straight up just not running a washer or two, the thin 3/8 24 nuts are a good option

[close]

Damn, I didn't know those existed. Where did you find them?

[close]

I thought about the nuts that come with Shorty's 7/8" bolts, and I googled "thin 3/8 24 nuts" and there were a bunch of options. Might be at a local hardware store too

*** Edit - Adding this - I would be stoked to find some even lower profile nuts around, but after looking I just couldn't see or find any that were worth getting for the price and size.


Shortys deck bolt nuts are the jam nuts, or at least that is what they are called when I go to order some from nuts and bolts wholesalers.

The axle and kingpin nuts are also the same jam nuts too, so what we get now is the thinner ones.  The other originals are actually twice as tall and totally not suitable for modern skateboards, even though the older skateboards or even some really cheap ones came with the taller / standard hardware on them back in the day.

That said, there has been a few companies that have put out ultra slim or low profile nuts which are definitely lower than some other ones, which I recall some people getting on here before too, maybe titanium, maybe not, but I seem to recall them being about $20 a set and quite difficult to get, as well as being super expensive.

Of course look into it and see if there are any other low profile nuts around, but it is much the same as deck bolts - there are the regular ones and the low profile ones, of which most people will use or see both, but when it comes to truck axles or kingpins, we only ever use the low profile ones as a common thing, as far as I am aware.


In saying that I have seen some others that are way thinner, but they don't have nyloc to keep the nuts on, so I guess you could use Loctite or something with them, but otherwise there just didn't seem to be a good simple solution that is widely available, when I had a good look for anything in the UNF 3/8" nut option.

Pic example of thinner ones with no nyloc:





This is a regular nut height, for all of them, the 3/8", 5/16" and 3/16" for comparison:

[swongolianbbq]

Sheeeit, yeah those ones in my photo probably aren't much thinner than stock ones at all..

I used to have the Acer titanium ones and those were for sure thinner.

I've seen the old standard sized axle nuts on vintage indys before, they also had hella wide axle washers

[Mbrimson88]

Sheeeit, yeah those ones in my photo probably aren't much thinner than stock ones at all..

I used to have the Acer titanium ones and those were for sure thinner.

I've seen the old standard sized axle nuts on vintage indys before, they also had hella wide axle washers

Acer - that was the brand.

Yes, I put an edit in there, to see if anyone else had anything  - didn't want to sound like I was just shutting down the conversation, but any which way, it is a funny thing.

Maybe there is a market for it, maybe the cost is just not worth it, I really don't know.

[swongolianbbq]

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Sheeeit, yeah those ones in my photo probably aren't much thinner than stock ones at all..

I used to have the Acer titanium ones and those were for sure thinner.

I've seen the old standard sized axle nuts on vintage indys before, they also had hella wide axle washers

[close]

Acer - that was the brand.

Yes, I put an edit in there, to see if anyone else had anything  - didn't want to sound like I was just shutting down the conversation, but any which way, it is a funny thing.

Maybe there is a market for it, maybe the cost is just not worth it, I really don't know.

I think in my pic, that particular nut is more rounded off on the top vs my stock Indy ones which made it look thinner. It might be, but a negligible amount. Alas they are both jam nuts

I remember I didn't really like the nylon on those Acer nuts, it didn't grip as tight and wasn't as durable

[Nap]

What happened to the aftermarket bushings? They are much harder than they used to be. Even the 78a ones are harder than the orange stock bushings.

[Mbrimson88]

What happened to the aftermarket bushings? They are much harder than they used to be. Even the 78a ones are harder than the orange stock bushings.

I am curious to hear more, as all the packs I have - lots for the shop - have always been as expected, with the white 78s so crazily soft.

Where did you get them?

How long have they been there?


Neither of these things should matter, because I have had some for years (pre 2020) and they are still the same, but maybe some new new ones are different now?


* The white ones could somehow have been swapped out from someone else, eg Slappy bushings, Ace bushings, Pig bushings all white as well and come in much harder duro options, not to mention even the stock white Indy ones that come on special trucks.  Pics would help a bit too, I think.


https://nhsskatedirect.com/products/genuine-parts-standard-cylinder-78a-cushions-super-soft-white-independent?variant=40118126444701