The Indy Thread

[rikki]

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Red aftermarket's have always been harder than the orange. I'd suggest sanding down the top of the orange stock a bit have you tried that? Most people I know that want Indy's looser just take off one or two washers. My friend uses the Bones top, no bottom and swears by it.

[close]

I did sand down some blues to match Thunder height when I hated the winter hardness.

But now back on Indy’s and I just used Ace IKP replace bushing top bushing since it’s low, and no sanding needed

Also, wanted to post that I tried the EXACT same bushing and washer setup in 149 and 144 just now. Both set to flush top of kingpin. The 144 is on a forged baseplate and 8.25 deck, while the 149 is on cast baseplate and 8.38 deck.

Wouldn’t you know it: the 149’s are looser and what I love, and the 144’s felt tight!

I give up. I even measured the heights of the kingpin from baseplate and they are almost the same (~1/4mm difference, barely the same), so it’s not that.

Maybe geometry between 144 and 149 is different? Could it be the extra leverage from the wider axle?

The width has probably something to do with it, yes.

But funnily enough, I've found my 149 cast Indys feel looser than the my 149 forged Indys, with both stock and replacement bushings. The former feel perfect for me with the blue aftermarkets, whereas the latter feel too tight with the exact same blues.

Go figure.

[SwitchBenihana]

The other thing you could do is Riptide cups.

Also, put lithium grease in the pivot cup and both sides of the bushings. I did that once to eliminate creaks but made my trucks feel dramatically looser.

[JM]

I just put wax on every surface the hangar nub, both sides of washers, the both sides of hangar that touches bushings, and bottom of nut. Basically everything. That takes away the squeak

Also. found a configuration on the 144 I like. This is madness I tell you. Madness!



*that’s an Ace IKP top bushing.

[JM]

But funnily enough, I've found my 149 cast Indys feel looser than the my 149 forged Indys, with both stock and replacement bushings. The former feel perfect for me with the blue aftermarkets, whereas the latter feel too tight with the exact same blues.

Go figure.

Yeah what the heck?

We need a real doctor of gear to get to the bottom of this.

Whooooo has a deep knowledge and documentation of gear around here. A PHD if you will… Pretty Hardcore (set of) Data

Hmmmmmmmm……..

[Fifty8mm]

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But funnily enough, I've found my 149 cast Indys feel looser than the my 149 forged Indys, with both stock and replacement bushings. The former feel perfect for me with the blue aftermarkets, whereas the latter feel too tight with the exact same blues.

Go figure.

[close]

Yeah what the heck?

We need a real doctor of gear to get to the bottom of this.

Whooooo has a deep knowledge and documentation of gear around here. A PHD if you will… Pretty Hardcore (set of) Data

Hmmmmmmmm……..

Ive had trucks, same model, with different kingpin size. Most recently had some ventures like that. A set had a slightly longer kingpin. I had a few stage vi indys with the same issue.

[Bongwater Mojito]

Incidentally, my trucks are squeaking again

Next steps:

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicone_grease (I'd suggest only a drop to pivot cup and maybe bit to pivot nub, wipe the excess once assembled back)
2. Go skate.

[Mbrimson88]

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But funnily enough, I've found my 149 cast Indys feel looser than the my 149 forged Indys, with both stock and replacement bushings. The former feel perfect for me with the blue aftermarkets, whereas the latter feel too tight with the exact same blues.

Go figure.

[close]

Yeah what the heck?

We need a real doctor of gear to get to the bottom of this.

Whooooo has a deep knowledge and documentation of gear around here. A PHD if you will… Pretty Hardcore (set of) Data

Hmmmmmmmm……..

There are definitely some weird things that just don't add up with a lot of products, even when swapping over everything and trying the same / different hangers, bushings, washers, even pivot cups, so I don't know what it could be, but I do think that the shape of the 144 hanger is different to the 139 and 149 in little ways, which could carry over to causing things to feel off, or at the very least, a bit weird.

All the other hangers seemed to have larger pivot nubs for starters, but the 144 pivot nub is smaller.

Also on average, the forged baseplates with hollow kingpins do have ever so slightly different angles and kingpin heights, even if it is a tiny bit, but it does add up.  I am not the only one who has said this before, maybe even being turned on to checking all the differences by a couple of other people saying the forged baseplates feel different when they skate them too, just like the Mid hanger feels different to the regular hangers, but that is another story entirely.

I try not to get that deep in all that stuff - I set up boards, skate them, change things if something is not working and fine tune every setup to be just right, which sometimes does involve switching bushings, washers, more this, a little less that, machining bushings, taking down kingpins and all the rest.

If something doesn't work, I make it work, but I know I do have a few more "spare parts" lying around here than most people would too.

[Schinken]

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But funnily enough, I've found my 149 cast Indys feel looser than the my 149 forged Indys, with both stock and replacement bushings. The former feel perfect for me with the blue aftermarkets, whereas the latter feel too tight with the exact same blues.

Go figure.

[close]

Yeah what the heck?

We need a real doctor of gear to get to the bottom of this.

Whooooo has a deep knowledge and documentation of gear around here. A PHD if you will… Pretty Hardcore (set of) Data

Hmmmmmmmm……..

[close]

There are definitely some weird things that just don't add up with a lot of products, even when swapping over everything and trying the same / different hangers, bushings, washers, even pivot cups, so I don't know what it could be, but I do think that the shape of the 144 hanger is different to the 139 and 149 in little ways, which could carry over to causing things to feel off, or at the very least, a bit weird.

All the other hangers seemed to have larger pivot nubs for starters, but the 144 pivot nub is smaller.

Also on average, the forged baseplates with hollow kingpins do have ever so slightly different angles and kingpin heights, even if it is a tiny bit, but it does add up.  I am not the only one who has said this before, maybe even being turned on to checking all the differences by a couple of other people saying the forged baseplates feel different when they skate them too, just like the Mid hanger feels different to the regular hangers, but that is another story entirely.

I try not to get that deep in all that stuff - I set up boards, skate them, change things if something is not working and fine tune every setup to be just right, which sometimes does involve switching bushings, washers, more this, a little less that, machining bushings, taking down kingpins and all the rest.

If something doesn't work, I make it work, but I know I do have a few more "spare parts" lying around here than most people would too.

I'm pretty sure that the hollow kingpins are little bit shorter than the standard ones. Nut flush on forged is a little bit tighter than flush on standard kingpin. Additionally forged baseplate is a little bit smaller therefore you have a little less of a lever.

One other thing to consider is, you have to use the same deck to compare. Higher concave / wider deck increase the lever as well.

I'm quiet now...

[skateboarder4life]

switched to lurpiv trucks after exclusively using independent and honestly they felt perfect to me. would recommend them for anyone looking to switch.

[JM]

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But funnily enough, I've found my 149 cast Indys feel looser than the my 149 forged Indys, with both stock and replacement bushings. The former feel perfect for me with the blue aftermarkets, whereas the latter feel too tight with the exact same blues.

Go figure.

[close]

Yeah what the heck?

We need a real doctor of gear to get to the bottom of this.

Whooooo has a deep knowledge and documentation of gear around here. A PHD if you will… Pretty Hardcore (set of) Data

Hmmmmmmmm……..

[close]

There are definitely some weird things that just don't add up with a lot of products, even when swapping over everything and trying the same / different hangers, bushings, washers, even pivot cups, so I don't know what it could be, but I do think that the shape of the 144 hanger is different to the 139 and 149 in little ways, which could carry over to causing things to feel off, or at the very least, a bit weird.

All the other hangers seemed to have larger pivot nubs for starters, but the 144 pivot nub is smaller.

Also on average, the forged baseplates with hollow kingpins do have ever so slightly different angles and kingpin heights, even if it is a tiny bit, but it does add up.  I am not the only one who has said this before, maybe even being turned on to checking all the differences by a couple of other people saying the forged baseplates feel different when they skate them too, just like the Mid hanger feels different to the regular hangers, but that is another story entirely.

I try not to get that deep in all that stuff - I set up boards, skate them, change things if something is not working and fine tune every setup to be just right, which sometimes does involve switching bushings, washers, more this, a little less that, machining bushings, taking down kingpins and all the rest.

If something doesn't work, I make it work, but I know I do have a few more "spare parts" lying around here than most people would too.

[close]

I'm pretty sure that the hollow kingpins are little bit shorter than the standard ones. Nut flush on forged is a little bit tighter than flush on standard kingpin. Additionally forged baseplate is a little bit smaller therefore you have a little less of a lever.

One other thing to consider is, you have to use the same deck to compare. Higher concave / wider deck increase the lever as well.

I'm quiet now...

No don’t ever stop. This is what we came for.

And Brimson, yes! Was hoping you’d chime in. The part of the slightly different geometry makes sense on the 144. It could also be the slightly different kingpin height makes enough of a difference in feeling of tightness when the nut is flush on both instances of forged vs. cast.

I too love to set it and forget it. The last session I swapped out the bottom blue conical for a medium orange barrel I had in backup (that had a little wear but didn’t seem to be that much), and now they’re perfect enough to enjoy skating around.

It’s all for naught, though. My calf felt like it popped put of place, and it’s so sore I can’t walk on it. Did some research and almost 100% certain it’s “tennis leg”. Which is a tear of some kind to the calf muscles, and doesn’t require much force to do it.  It’s a very stupid injury, but can’t skate for another 6-8 weeks likely.

At least the trucks were dialed in before I got injured, so I won’t have to worry about it anymore.

[swongolianbbq]

Yesterday I was A to B-ing the same bushings on forged baseplates and standards, and it seemed like the threads go up higher on the forged ones, so nut flush felt a little looser on the forged. The standards I have, the kingpin threads end and then it's conical shaped for like 2mm after. So if I rean the nut at the same height relative to the actual end of the kingpin like i do on forged, the nut would probably fall off cause none of the nylon would be engaged. So on mine it seems like the kingpins are the same length overall but my standards have a couple less threads

[skater0000]

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Red aftermarket's have always been harder than the orange. I'd suggest sanding down the top of the orange stock a bit have you tried that? Most people I know that want Indy's looser just take off one or two washers. My friend uses the Bones top, no bottom and swears by it.

[close]

I did sand down some blues to match Thunder height when I hated the winter hardness.

But now back on Indy’s and I just used Ace IKP replace bushing top bushing since it’s low, and no sanding needed

Also, wanted to post that I tried the EXACT same bushing and washer setup in 149 and 144 just now. Both set to flush top of kingpin. The 144 is on a forged baseplate and 8.25 deck, while the 149 is on cast baseplate and 8.38 deck.

Wouldn’t you know it: the 149’s are looser and what I love, and the 144’s felt tight!

I give up. I even measured the heights of the kingpin from baseplate and they are almost the same (~1/4mm difference, barely the same), so it’s not that.

Maybe geometry between 144 and 149 is different? Could it be the extra leverage from the wider axle?

[close]

The width has probably something to do with it, yes.

But funnily enough, I've found my 149 cast Indys feel looser than the my 149 forged Indys, with both stock and replacement bushings. The former feel perfect for me with the blue aftermarkets, whereas the latter feel too tight with the exact same blues.

Go figure.

Maybe feels tighter because of the slight WB increase from cast to forged?

[Richard Skidder]

I rode a set of 149 forged hollows for a couple of years and they never felt right.
 I tried 144 standard when they first came out and something still felt off. I thought it was the weight and that I just needed to get used to it.
 Next up was 144 hollow cast, on 8.1ish it felt fine (not great but fine), on 8.25 it just felt really “tippy “ and unstable.
 I tried the 149 hollow hanger on the hollow cast baseplate and though it felt better it still just wasn’t it.
 After some back and forth with other brands and breaking them in I found that the 149 standard had the familiarity that I was missing.
 For some reason that size without any bells and whistles seemed to be the best iteration of that truck.

Noisy Pivot Cups:

I noticed when it’s cold outside the cups shrink more than the aluminum. It makes the cups themselves loose in the baseplate. Sometimes the squeak is coming from underneath the cup and it is squeaking against the cavity.

[logjammin]

159 standards you can definitely set em and forget em. best option for stage 11's imo. 151 if you're going stage 4. you can make those work from 8.25-9.5 boards with wheel widths and extra axle washers when applicable.

[Mbrimson88]

I rode a set of 149 forged hollows for a couple of years and they never felt right.
 I tried 144 standard when they first came out and something still felt off. I thought it was the weight and that I just needed to get used to it.
 Next up was 144 hollow cast, on 8.1ish it felt fine (not great but fine), on 8.25 it just felt really “tippy “ and unstable.
 I tried the 149 hollow hanger on the hollow cast baseplate and though it felt better it still just wasn’t it.
 After some back and forth with other brands and breaking them in I found that the 149 standard had the familiarity that I was missing.
 For some reason that size without any bells and whistles seemed to be the best iteration of that truck.

Noisy Pivot Cups:

I noticed when it’s cold outside the cups shrink more than the aluminum. It makes the cups themselves loose in the baseplate. Sometimes the squeak is coming from underneath the cup and it is squeaking against the cavity.

Funny you say that about the pivot cups shrinking - never really had pivot cups fall out or come out so easily on any older trucks of any brand, but the newer Indy trucks, if I take off the hanger and then turn the board over or just have the baseplates bouncing around, they lose pivot cups very easily, as per a few times I have had to go digging for them, or been surprised when I went to put the hanger back on and the pivot cup was not in there.

Just another one of those curious things with the current trucks I guess, which might also explain the "ding" noise when the board drops, almost like a blown pivot cup noise in other boards, but the pivot cups are still perfectly good.  Some people can't deal with that noise so they swap out pivot cups pretty quickly too, yet other newish sets don't seem to have the same problems.  I just don't know these days.

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I'm pretty sure that the hollow kingpins are little bit shorter than the standard ones. Nut flush on forged is a little bit tighter than flush on standard kingpin. Additionally forged baseplate is a little bit smaller therefore you have a little less of a lever.

One other thing to consider is, you have to use the same deck to compare. Higher concave / wider deck increase the lever as well.

I'm quiet now...

[close]

No don’t ever stop. This is what we came for.

And Brimson, yes! Was hoping you’d chime in. The part of the slightly different geometry makes sense on the 144. It could also be the slightly different kingpin height makes enough of a difference in feeling of tightness when the nut is flush on both instances of forged vs. cast.

I too love to set it and forget it. The last session I swapped out the bottom blue conical for a medium orange barrel I had in backup (that had a little wear but didn’t seem to be that much), and now they’re perfect enough to enjoy skating around.

It’s all for naught, though. My calf felt like it popped put of place, and it’s so sore I can’t walk on it. Did some research and almost 100% certain it’s “tennis leg”. Which is a tear of some kind to the calf muscles, and doesn’t require much force to do it.  It’s a very stupid injury, but can’t skate for another 6-8 weeks likely.

At least the trucks were dialed in before I got injured, so I won’t have to worry about it anymore.

Yes - the more conversation the better I think too.

Sucks about getting injured, but at least working out what it was and setting up your board in a way you like it is the main thing.

I see some people go nuts trying to figure out what is going on with their setups sometimes - some things definitely are in the mind while others are absolutely the product, eg kingpins of different heights / not set into the baseplate completely, as per one set of other trucks I saw not too long ago (not Indy either), which was driving them crazy.

[FrenchSkater]

I finally went with a new set of Indy trucks (I skated Forged Hollows 139 for a long time) and decided to try the Indy Mids Forged Hollows 139. Riding 8 or 8.1 decks (depending on the shape and my mood), these trucks are clearly beneficial for setups in that width range. In terms of stability, they help a lot.

 There isn’t a big difference in weight, but I feel much more balanced on every landing and when setting up for certain tricks in switch (like switch flips, for example).

I’ve read a lot of negative reviews about these trucks, saying they tend to loosen up over time. Personally, that doesn’t bother me at all, i actually like the soft, loose feeling of the bushings, and I really dislike stiffness. The inverted kingpin isn’t an issue for me either, especially since I very rarely do grinds; my sessions are mostly focused on flatground, banks, and small gaps.

Of course, a lot of people would say, “Why not go with Thunder or Venture ? ” to get a lower or mid-height truck, but I just love the Indy feel too much. The Forged Hollows have been extremely rewarding for me and are among my favorite trucks, but I was looking for a bit more stability and quicker pop, so I wouldn’t have to put in as much effort with my smaller build and I got exactly that.

Small question: Since they’re considered a bit looser and turn differently than standard or Forged Indy trucks, would it be a bad idea to put some wax in the pivot cup to avoid that squeaking sound we all get with brand-new Indys ?

Feel free to share your thoughts on these trucks if you’ve ridden them for a while. (Not the standard Mids; only the Forged Mids. I’m also wondering whether their construction is actually different from one another.) A small personal thought, but I really hope to one day see Indy Mids with a standard kingpin. I also hope they’ll keep producing them.

[JM]

Yes - the more conversation the better I think too.

Sucks about getting injured, but at least working out what it was and setting up your board in a way you like it is the main thing.

I see some people go nuts trying to figure out what is going on with their setups sometimes - some things definitely are in the mind while others are absolutely the product, eg kingpins of different heights / not set into the baseplate completely, as per one set of other trucks I saw not too long ago (not Indy either), which was driving them crazy.

Thanks Dr.

[Mbrimson88]

I finally went with a new set of Indy trucks (I skated Forged Hollows 139 for a long time) and decided to try the Indy Mids Forged Hollows 139. Riding 8 or 8.1 decks (depending on the shape and my mood), these trucks are clearly beneficial for setups in that width range. In terms of stability, they help a lot.

 There isn’t a big difference in weight, but I feel much more balanced on every landing and when setting up for certain tricks in switch (like switch flips, for example).

I’ve read a lot of negative reviews about these trucks, saying they tend to loosen up over time. Personally, that doesn’t bother me at all, i actually like the soft, loose feeling of the bushings, and I really dislike stiffness. The inverted kingpin isn’t an issue for me either, especially since I very rarely do grinds; my sessions are mostly focused on flatground, banks, and small gaps.

Of course, a lot of people would say, “Why not go with Thunder or Venture ? ” to get a lower or mid-height truck, but I just love the Indy feel too much. The Forged Hollows have been extremely rewarding for me and are among my favorite trucks, but I was looking for a bit more stability and quicker pop, so I wouldn’t have to put in as much effort with my smaller build and I got exactly that.

Small question: Since they’re considered a bit looser and turn differently than standard or Forged Indy trucks, would it be a bad idea to put some wax in the pivot cup to avoid that squeaking sound we all get with brand-new Indys ?

Feel free to share your thoughts on these trucks if you’ve ridden them for a while. (Not the standard Mids; only the Forged Mids. I’m also wondering whether their construction is actually different from one another.) A small personal thought, but I really hope to one day see Indy Mids with a standard kingpin. I also hope they’ll keep producing them.

At one point Indy did make a low truck with a standard shape, normal kingpin and just lower top bushing, which was all good and well, but had minimal kingpin clearance so combining that with the increase in popularity of other types, they stopped making it for whatever reason.  Click on small pic for bigger image of that one.




The forged baseplate inverted kingpin mid that you just got is about the same height, not exactly the same, but I think it would fill that market space for people wanting a lower truck, which Indy didn't really have for quite a while.  It is still an Indy, so it will still turn more like a normal Indy than the other brands that had lower trucks for a while - Thunder and Venture in particular - but for what it is, I think it would work just fine and you don't really need to worry a whole lot about how a number of people broke the parts of the regular Mid when they first came out, or the kingpin loosening off by itself, which is going to happen to any inverted truck at some point, for some people - not for everyone, that is, as I still have a set or two from the first release of Indy Mid that people are still skating with no issues.  Seems it is only if you constantly change out bushings or are adjusting trucks, more than anything else.

Anyway, things like putting wax on the hanger nub is something that I either do whenever I change out bushings or if things start to squeak, maybe not something people need to do right away, but if it is bugging you, it should help there.

The set of Indy forged Mid I have (159s) works fine and there are no issues with the set I have, but I don't skate low boards much myself - was more just a test to see what they were like.  For anyone who does like the lower truck feel, they work fine and the inverted kingpin does give more clearance than a regular low truck in that regard too.

The other thing is compared to Thunder and Venture, the Indy has a shorter wheelbase, which makes things easier on the pop angle for me too, so if you were more used to Indy in that regard, riding Thunder or Venture can make things feel off, as I think I recall you saying about the set of Thunders you had.

[Mbrimson88]

.

I posted this in the Madness thread, but thought it should probably go here as well.

.

Indy bushings have definitely changed a lot over the years, both stock and aftermarket sets, but the main differences, as already noted, the older ones were both taller (especially the tops) and harder, their old catalogs still show this too.  I have some of each, but it is easier to just post images that are already online right now.

There have been three main variants of the aftermarket bushings that I know of, the first being the small clear bagged hang sell versions, which came in three options, red, orange and black, all conical shaped and so much harder than now.

* Just measured and the tops were almost 12 mm tall, bottoms 13 to 14 mm on some sets, but I used to cut the red tops down for Stage 9 trucks and they worked really well - still have some in trucks and on boards from that time.

Red 92 duro (not so soft but softened up nicely over time)
Orange 94 duro (fairly hard and remained hard)
Black 96 duro (rock hard and never really broke in)




Then there were the white boxes, which were way more "normal" but some sets still had taller tops, maybe old stock, others pretty much similar to what they are now, which might have been the revised sizing.  They also included the low bushing line - just a lower top bushing, same bottom bushing, also in three options, red, orange and black.  Some packaging had the red as 90 and others as 92, some had orange as 92 and others as 94 and the black ones were still 96 from what I can recall and what I have here.

Red 90 / 92 (a fair bit softer than what they were before)
Orange 92 / 94
Black 96 (still rock hard)




Lastly the newer clear plastic containers, five bushing options, same as they are now, also still had the low top option for a while, conical in red, orange, blue and black, cylinder in all - white 78, red 88, orange 90, blue 92, black 94, yellow 96.  All of these bushing options were way softer than any of the older ones, with a few funny things, like the red ones being a more solid feel but still squashed down a lot, the orange feeling more soft than the red and softer than the stock orange and a few other things.

The newer bushings felt like the break in time was way less and I could have a set running really well after one session on mini ramp, compared to maybe a few sessions on older bushings.  They also seem like they hold up really well overall, minimal issues with them blowing out or any other problems, although I have seen almost every brand of bushing destroyed at some point, but maybe more so the tops being cut from the washer than anything else.


As to the exact timeline of them, I don't know right now, but I thought I had noted it down somewhere at some point, but I had the old clear bag through stage 9 so up until maybe 2009 / 2010, then maybe the white box from stage 10 through 11 and then the expanded options in the clear plastic boxes from around 2015 or so.

I think more than anything, they were just easier to get than most others but I have picked up a lot more of the old bushing packs from shops closing and "found stock" that have been sold off every now and then.

[JM]

.

I posted this in the Madness thread, but thought it should probably go here as well.

.

Indy bushings have definitely changed a lot over the years, both stock and aftermarket sets, but the main differences, as already noted, the older ones were both taller (especially the tops) and harder, their old catalogs still show this too.  I have some of each, but it is easier to just post images that are already online right now.

There have been three main variants of the aftermarket bushings that I know of, the first being the small clear bagged hang sell versions, which came in three options, red, orange and black, all conical shaped and so much harder than now.

* Just measured and the tops were almost 12 mm tall, bottoms 13 to 14 mm on some sets, but I used to cut the red tops down for Stage 9 trucks and they worked really well - still have some in trucks and on boards from that time.

Red 92 duro (not so soft but softened up nicely over time)
Orange 94 duro (fairly hard and remained hard)
Black 96 duro (rock hard and never really broke in)




Then there were the white boxes, which were way more "normal" but some sets still had taller tops, maybe old stock, others pretty much similar to what they are now, which might have been the revised sizing.  They also included the low bushing line - just a lower top bushing, same bottom bushing, also in three options, red, orange and black.  Some packaging had the red as 90 and others as 92, some had orange as 92 and others as 94 and the black ones were still 96 from what I can recall and what I have here.

Red 90 / 92 (a fair bit softer than what they were before)
Orange 92 / 94
Black 96 (still rock hard)




Lastly the newer clear plastic containers, five bushing options, same as they are now, also still had the low top option for a while, conical in red, orange, blue and black, cylinder in all - white 78, red 88, orange 90, blue 92, black 94, yellow 96.  All of these bushing options were way softer than any of the older ones, with a few funny things, like the red ones being a more solid feel but still squashed down a lot, the orange feeling more soft than the red and softer than the stock orange and a few other things.

The newer bushings felt like the break in time was way less and I could have a set running really well after one session on mini ramp, compared to maybe a few sessions on older bushings.  They also seem like they hold up really well overall, minimal issues with them blowing out or any other problems, although I have seen almost every brand of bushing destroyed at some point, but maybe more so the tops being cut from the washer than anything else.


As to the exact timeline of them, I don't know right now, but I thought I had noted it down somewhere at some point, but I had the old clear bag through stage 9 so up until maybe 2009 / 2010, then maybe the white box from stage 10 through 11 and then the expanded options in the clear plastic boxes from around 2015 or so.

I think more than anything, they were just easier to get than most others but I have picked up a lot more of the old bushing packs from shops closing and "found stock" that have been sold off every now and then.

thank ye, kindly.

What was funny is that I was reading all this and didn't look at the poster, thinking "wow this person knows a lot".   Then I saw it was you and it all made sense

I think my bushing woes are due to me tightening the nut flush, since standard Indy's had like the nylon "just" engaged, so the kingpin sat maybe a mm below the top of the nut.   That sounds about right, right?

[Mbrimson88]

I think my bushing woes are due to me tightening the nut flush, since standard Indy's had like the nylon "just" engaged, so the kingpin sat maybe a mm below the top of the nut.   That sounds about right, right?

It was a funny thing too, going back over different eras of stock bushings, which were also taller to start with, then lower tops on the Stage 11s, but still a more solid material, bright orange, often took a bit to break in and even then were a bit hit and miss.  Then when things went completely to China, the bushings changed again, a more translucent looking orange, very much feeling softer, but broke in way better and firmed up nicely for the most part.

As to where the kingpin nut sat, I know the old ones had to be skated first then changed out second, as they had to compress to fit in well and also as said, it was near impossible to get the kingpin nut back on fresh unskated Indy trucks back in the old days.

Maybe the kingpin nut actually sits a bit lower these days, maybe due to the bushings being a bit lower so the rattle gun that puts them on still goes about the same force.  I know when I put on fresh new low head bushings, I see a lot of kingpin and sometimes think "Are these too low?" but at first, especially to break them in nicely, I have the kingpin nut just nicely on and then tighten down as needed once they start to get responsive.

Normal other aftermarket bushings, or even swapping in or out regular stock bushings also seem about the same, eg put them in, tighten kingpin nut down to pretty much on the kingpin around flush, then adjust as needed.


I guess everyone is different in that regard, but I think I find now I am used to getting the kingpin nuts down a little more, then taking some of the kingpin off if I need to, depending on what I am skating.  The ones from @swongolianbbq  in the Madness thread look pretty much where mine often end up, even  just taking off the front edge of the exposed kingpin is all that is needed, but usually for the look, I would take off the top, just to keep it even.

[dirtjers]

I know we've discussed the weird pivot cup / pivot stem / pivot cavity play in Independents over the last few years in this thread.

I've been suffering through this on 149s, and consensus is that 144s are bad too. The stem moves around in the cup, if you put enough force the cup moves around in the cavity, and the roadside bushing always looks like it's sitting "off center" with more space to one side. To be totally fair I'm not even sure if this messes with performance for real but it drives me insane and I'm constantly moving it back in between tricks. 

I thought this was just all Indy's, but have you guys checked out 139? Snug and perfect.

Was looking at a friend's board and couldn't believe it, figured it was maybe just a "good set." Went to the shop, and each set of 139s looked great. Top bushing looked totally centered and filled the whole space, pivot area seemed good.

I grabbed a set since I've gone down to 8.25 over the last year, and I'd ideally LOVE to be able to get down to 8.1 eventually.

Do we think it's just certain hanger molds? Maybe the 149, and they based the 144 off that? Super weird.

[JM]

I know we've discussed the weird pivot cup / pivot stem / pivot cavity play in Independents over the last few years in this thread.

I've been suffering through this on 149s, and consensus is that 144s are bad too. The stem moves around in the cup, if you put enough force the cup moves around in the cavity, and the roadside bushing always looks like it's sitting "off center" with more space to one side. To be totally fair I'm not even sure if this messes with performance for real but it drives me insane and I'm constantly moving it back in between tricks. 

I thought this was just all Indy's, but have you guys checked out 139? Snug and perfect.

Was looking at a friend's board and couldn't believe it, figured it was maybe just a "good set." Went to the shop, and each set of 139s looked great. Top bushing looked totally centered and filled the whole space, pivot area seemed good.

I grabbed a set since I've gone down to 8.25 over the last year, and I'd ideally LOVE to be able to get down to 8.1 eventually.

Do we think it's just certain hanger molds? Maybe the 149, and they based the 144 off that? Super weird.

Doesn’t answer your question… but I put Ace pivot cup in my 144’s and the wobble is gone. Bugged the heck out of me, too.

Also, it’s better when the trucks are not loose. (flush should be fine after using the Ace Cup)

[Mbrimson88]

I know we've discussed the weird pivot cup / pivot stem / pivot cavity play in Independents over the last few years in this thread.

I've been suffering through this on 149s, and consensus is that 144s are bad too. The stem moves around in the cup, if you put enough force the cup moves around in the cavity, and the roadside bushing always looks like it's sitting "off center" with more space to one side. To be totally fair I'm not even sure if this messes with performance for real but it drives me insane and I'm constantly moving it back in between tricks. 

I thought this was just all Indy's, but have you guys checked out 139? Snug and perfect.

Was looking at a friend's board and couldn't believe it, figured it was maybe just a "good set." Went to the shop, and each set of 139s looked great. Top bushing looked totally centered and filled the whole space, pivot area seemed good.

I grabbed a set since I've gone down to 8.25 over the last year, and I'd ideally LOVE to be able to get down to 8.1 eventually.

Do we think it's just certain hanger molds? Maybe the 149, and they based the 144 off that? Super weird.

I have just been going through a lot of old boards and doing a bit of mix and match between hangers, baseplates and so on.

More than anything I think it is the different pivot cups that are doing this, so as it was before, things worked with that hanger and baseplate with that pivot cup.  Then when I did a bit of changing round hangers, some were too loose and some were too tight in the pivot point, so I also moved the pivot cups with them and things seemed to work on those setups. 

That was for a lot of older trucks, so yes pre 2020 or even some pre USA on the baseplate change, but I think it could also be applied to current and new trucks in some ways too.

From that, if I put in a thicker set of pivot cups in to any baseplate that the hanger was loose (most new trucks these days), everything works as it should, no hanger movement, but I guess it is just finding some pivot cups that actually are thicker and hold up well.


As to the bushings moving, is it both or just bottom, or top or what?  I know some I had seen had moved a bit, as the hanger seemed to have a wider yoke and bushing seat than others, but I also wonder if it is because the bushings are waxed / lubed / have something on them that makes them slip around a lot more.  This happened when I was changing over some other things and they would not stop squeaking, so after trying different things just to stop the noise, then I also noticed that the bushings were slip sliding all over the place and didn't stay seated well.  I ended up just cleaning them off and wiping them down and it seemed to work better, but it was a weird one, as I know some others do this to help get a softer bushing feeling in their trucks.


* I was mainly changing out 149s and a couple of sets of 144 and 159s, but the issue seems to be on all new trucks no matter what size, but maybe more so on the 144s, from what I have seen.

** One other thing that I did find that seemed to work a bit better to keeping the hanger seated is having a slightly lower /squashed down bottom bushing, so either sanding it a bit on grip tape or tightening the truck down a bit more, things seemed to fit a bit better.  When swapping out bushings or running trucks a bit more on the loose side, I think the hanger didn't sit as low and then had more play in the pivot point area, but I hadn't really explored that a lot with my own setups to see if this was the case.

Doesn’t answer your question… but I put Ace pivot cup in my 144’s and the wobble is gone. Bugged the heck out of me, too.

Also, it’s better when the trucks are not loose. (flush should be fine after using the Ace Cup)

Re better when the trucks are not loose...

Ha yes, this is exactly what I was thinking re last added bit - also only saw your post after I posted mine, but I think we are both on the same page there.

[JM]

Naaaah. I’m in freshman lit 101, and you’re publishing papers on parabolic equations parametrically aligning theorems on the topic of fifth dimension mechanical engineering in the quantum realm.

[Mbrimson88]

Naaaah. I’m in freshman lit 101, and you’re publishing papers on parabolic equations parametrically aligning theorems on the topic of fifth dimension mechanical engineering in the quantum realm.

Ha, sure, but sometimes I think I have maxxed out the word limit for the rest of the month in one day.

I guess as long as someone finds it worthwhile, then I am happy to spend as long as I do on these things, but I think it also helps me sometimes to get it all down here, besides just having all this stuff sitting around after checking it, measuring it, skating it, etc.

Got a few more experiments I have been thinking of, especially after the skate session today, where I had a good chat to a few other like minded people, so I will be busy modifying some more gear - Indy trucks in particular - to see how they work out.

It should be worth the fun once I am done with it, even if all one of the things I am trying is moving the trucks in a few mm each by redrilling the bolt holes, to make them line up more with the T-II truck bolt holes, as that really seemed to work well on pretty much every board I have skated them on so far.

[swongolianbbq]

So I tried some different configurations with my old baseplates where I cut the kingpins down about 1/8", and I think I'm just gonna keep rocking with the regular ol kingpins and not bother with the angle grinder anymore. I can't get it *exactly* how I'd like, and I like the option of being able to run them as loose as possible if I want to.

My solution is to just hide a bones flat washer underneath the Indy top washer if I need them tighter and don't want a bunch of kingpin sticking out. Non-permanent and invisible.

 I do remember a clip of T-funk from a while back where he was running the black bushings, and I know Reynolds fucks with them but not always... I think he might be like me in the way that anything other than orange just looks wrong... Like when I tried radials and conicals and was just like, who's board is this. Daddy needs classics.

I got the homies board to where he wants it with Indy black cylinders and that secret bones washer thing. 1-1.5 complete turns after flush, doesn't look crazy at all, feels the same as the way he used to have it which was with completely destroyed stock bushings and an ass load of threads showing.

Throughout messing with our trucks I realized some stuff that might help heavier riders

Ace bottom washers curl up and have a deeper cup to em that I think really helps keep everything together, and a flat top washer can prevent the top bushing squeezing out and getting stuck on the top washer, it just squeezes around and there's nothing to catch on. I think this is why the top bushing on AF1s is narrower at the top than all the other bushings, and the washer isn't deep and sharp.

The funny thing with Indy is that I like the aftermarket top washers and the stock bottom washers. But with my two most recent sets of indys, the stock top washers were just like the aftermarket ones(good) and the bottom ones were the same as usual but less sharp. Hopefully that's the new normal thing, cause it's great. The bottom washers that come with the aftermarket cylinder bushings are too narrow and shallow, and the stock top washers were usually too deep and sharp

[Hqjdncm]

Setup my Indy’s on Christmas, swapped the front to back about a month in, and just hit axle on my back truck. Gonna keep skating them for a couple more weeks before I setup a new board

[Buppo]

I had to peek into your post history to see the slappy warmup,  you might be grinding more then I'm riding.
 Indys last me like 3 years. Bravo.

Setup my Indy’s on Christmas, swapped the front to back about a month in, and just hit axle on my back truck. Gonna keep skating them for a couple more weeks before I setup a new board

[swongolianbbq]

I want to experiment with these combos, for science

Forged baseplates
Stg 4 146 hangers
Stg 4 bottom bushing
Stg 11 top bushing

Standard stg 11 baseplates
Titanium 149 hangers
Stg 11 bottom bushing
Bones top bushing

Forged stg 11 baseplates
Standard stg 11 144 hangers
Stg 11 bottom bushing
Bones top bushing