Author Topic: Bearings moving in the bearing seat  (Read 3335 times)

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sbr

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Bearings moving in the bearing seat
« on: January 29, 2023, 07:35:01 AM »
So I’ve seen mention of this in a few threads but no specific thread for it, so I figured I’d start one…

After decades of never once experiencing this, I’ve had about a year from hell with almost all wheel/bearing combinations I set up having the bearings creep around in the bearing seats to some extent. Sometimes making the spin suck, other times going crooked enough to fully bind up and have to be reseated (predominantly happening in my toe side front wheel, but has happened in others infrequently).

I’ve done multiple F4 99a cuts & sizes, Bones SPF 84b & 81b (happened worse to me in these), Speedlab 99a OJ og formula 99a and Elite 101a and have tried Bronson and Bones bearings with them (with and without tube spacers). The issue is far more consistent when running tube spacers, presumably because the core inconsistencies in the molds prevent the bearing from fully seating with them in (i.e. in a set of F4 56 classics, I had only 1 wheel able to fully seat bearings with the tube spacer. The other three you’d seat one side fully, flip it around to press the other bearing and spacer on and feel the already installed bearing push out of the seat). Also tried cleaning the seats and outsides of the races with isopropyl alcohol, which slowed the issue from happening, but it still happened.

If anyone has had this happen and found a solution, I’d love to hear it. If you’re also experiencing this with no fix, maybe we can complain to one another about how awful mfg quality is now and reminisce of the days where it was damn near impossible to pry bearings out of wheels…
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Mbrimson88

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Re: Bearings moving in the bearing seat
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2023, 05:34:17 PM »
.

I believe the best solution to wheels that have constant issues with bearing seating is getting the bearings (of any brand) that have the extended inner spacer part, like Race Reds.

People who have had wheel issues, including myself, have tried these and they work.

Sure most people associate them with longboarders or downhill speedsters, but you can still get affordable decent bearings that have the extra inner spacer, without having to spend huge amounts on super fancy ones and because everything lines up and is seated very solidly, I didn't have any other problems with the wheels having issues like I did before.

The Bones Race Reds bearings are probably the easiest to use as show and tell because they are not that expensive and usually available in a lot more places than some of the other extended race bearings.

You can tighten them right down or leave them with play, as I did because I am not fond of the dead sound and they still worked perfectly well without issues as per one or two wheels constantly having the bearings move in them and lock up with any normal skating that puts pressure on the wheel in a certain way.

Link for more info, etc.

https://bonesbearings.com/bones-reg-race-reds-reg-skateboard-bearings-8-pack


Specifically this image, even though it is not a conventional board, it still shows it all better than any other pic or diagram can.








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Re: Bearings moving in the bearing seat
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2023, 05:49:49 PM »
Im dealing with it rn but it only is a real problem after both wheels get around the curb and I get stuck. 5.8 is almost exactly the same size as the local TV and Peace curbs.

I ride spacers with just a click of wiggle. You can hear it but you can't see the wheel move.
I'm sure once dirt gets between there it's tight.  I ride extra washers on the outside of my wheels.
I think this might be a bad move. Might self loosen. There's considerable wear between the two washers and no extra threads showing. I could flip the nuts but I'll have to use new nuts next time I remove the wheels.

1 backwards threading = like 4 regular threading and if you don't do it perfectly it's super glue time.

So when I noticed they was unseated I loosened my nuts put the board on flat ground and stomped on the truck bolts to reseat the bearings. I learned that from my homies who long board. Works almost every time with a soft wheel. It'll get you though the session

 Rn I'm pulling everything apart and I'm going to swing the extra washers to the truck side and use different spacers. The ones that came with my Swiss Bearings is able to rattle between my bearings in my front two wheels. Probably because that's the trick that bites the curb.

If the Rat Bone 2 was a few mm wider I'm sure it would not grab the curb. The 56mm dF is wider I think. This wouldn't be an issue.

Dragons appear to have slightly less core material between the  the seats. Idk if this makes it easier to twist and unseat.

It's all good tho after I stomp that and stay away from front 50s.
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sbr

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Re: Bearings moving in the bearing seat
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2023, 05:44:04 AM »
.

I believe the best solution to wheels that have constant issues with bearing seating is getting the bearings (of any brand) that have the extended inner spacer part, like Race Reds.

People who have had wheel issues, including myself, have tried these and they work.

Sure most people associate them with longboarders or downhill speedsters, but you can still get affordable decent bearings that have the extra inner spacer, without having to spend huge amounts on super fancy ones and because everything lines up and is seated very solidly, I didn't have any other problems with the wheels having issues like I did before.

The Bones Race Reds bearings are probably the easiest to use as show and tell because they are not that expensive and usually available in a lot more places than some of the other extended race bearings.

You can tighten them right down or leave them with play, as I did because I am not fond of the dead sound and they still worked perfectly well without issues as per one or two wheels constantly having the bearings move in them and lock up with any normal skating that puts pressure on the wheel in a certain way.

Link for more info, etc.

https://bonesbearings.com/bones-reg-race-reds-reg-skateboard-bearings-8-pack


Specifically this image, even though it is not a conventional board, it still shows it all better than any other pic or diagram can.




Interesting... In theory, even in the case of the bearing not fully seating in the wheel, the extended inner race should keep the bearing sitting straight and avoid the wheel binding up fully (since it can't really go crooked in the seat)... This may be on the "to try" list now
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sbr

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Re: Bearings moving in the bearing seat
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2023, 05:50:36 AM »
Im dealing with it rn but it only is a real problem after both wheels get around the curb and I get stuck. 5.8 is almost exactly the same size as the local TV and Peace curbs.

I ride spacers with just a click of wiggle. You can hear it but you can't see the wheel move.
I'm sure once dirt gets between there it's tight.  I ride extra washers on the outside of my wheels.
I think this might be a bad move. Might self loosen. There's considerable wear between the two washers and no extra threads showing. I could flip the nuts but I'll have to use new nuts next time I remove the wheels.

1 backwards threading = like 4 regular threading and if you don't do it perfectly it's super glue time.

So when I noticed they was unseated I loosened my nuts put the board on flat ground and stomped on the truck bolts to reseat the bearings. I learned that from my homies who long board. Works almost every time with a soft wheel. It'll get you though the session

 Rn I'm pulling everything apart and I'm going to swing the extra washers to the truck side and use different spacers. The ones that came with my Swiss Bearings is able to rattle between my bearings in my front two wheels. Probably because that's the trick that bites the curb.

If the Rat Bone 2 was a few mm wider I'm sure it would not grab the curb. The 56mm dF is wider I think. This wouldn't be an issue.

Dragons appear to have slightly less core material between the  the seats. Idk if this makes it easier to twist and unseat.

It's all good tho after I stomp that and stay away from front 50s.

I've been using the shoe pressure to re-seat trick as long as this has been happening (normally a quick fix because it's almost always the outer facing bearing on the toe side front wheel), but this gets old quick after it happens a few times during a session. The bizarre issue is I was having the opposite issue with center spacers where rather than rattling around in the center of the wheel, it was just long enough to pop one of 2 bearings out a tiny bit from being fully seated against the core of the wheel when putting the other bearing in. This is a totally new issue for me and I got my hands on a set of NOS OJ's from when they were still made in the US so I'm going to see if that makes any bit of difference. If it's still happening, I think Mbrimson88's suggestion of extended race bearings is next to try.
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Re: Bearings moving in the bearing seat
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2023, 06:04:17 AM »
Didn’t have it with Bones 100s and Lil Smokies but have it with SF 52 Classics and it sucks. Changing bearings is not an option as I just shelled out major bucks for Quantum Fusions. Unnerving that in this day and age we are even faced with such issues. *old dude rant over*
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blahblah999

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Re: Bearings moving in the bearing seat
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2023, 06:07:08 AM »
Never had this happen but could see it happening. To me, longboard type bearings would be a band-aid fix. The real solution would be a set of wheels that are made to tighter tolerances.

The only wheels I've found that didn't have obvious runout and inaccurate bearing seats are wheels made by Creative Urethane (an OEM some brands use) that also had hard cores or some kind of dual duro construction. Also the only wheels where I could use high quality steel spacers and tighten down the wheel all the way without affecting spin.

BITD no one I knew used spacers because none of the bearings most skaters could afford came with them. If the wheels are poured inaccurately, it's probably best to ditch the spacers because they might cause a problem. I wouldn't use fancy bearings in those types of wheels either.

As for quality being better BITD, sometimes it was, sometimes it wasn't. Every brand of trucks seemed to get axle slip back in the 90s at one point and we were constantly banging our axles on the concrete while skating. Sometimes boards would suck also and lose pop (e.g. become "soggy") in less than 2 weeks. There was no consistency with certain board brands either back then.

sbr

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Re: Bearings moving in the bearing seat
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2023, 06:23:25 AM »
Didn’t have it with Bones 100s and Lil Smokies but have it with SF 52 Classics and it sucks. Changing bearings is not an option as I just shelled out major bucks for Quantum Fusions. Unnerving that in this day and age we are even faced with such issues. *old dude rant over*

So far I've tried (with and without tube spacers) Bones Swiss, Swiss Ceramics, Bronson Ceramics, Quantum Fusions, and now Bronson Raws (wanted to see if a coated outer race would grip any better in the bearing seat than a polished outer race) and it happened with all of them so I can't isolate it to being specifically bearing related. The suggestion to try Race Reds, however, is making a whole lot of sense to me since the races are extended on both sides of the bearing and this makes me feel like the bearings would not be able to go crooked enough to bind even if they do move a bit in the seat. Doesn't sound like a bad use of $30 if the new wheels I'm throwing on still have the issue.
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IpathCats

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Re: Bearings moving in the bearing seat
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2023, 06:28:29 AM »
Sounds to me like your axel(s) might be bent.

From my experiences this is usually what makes bearings back out of their seat this way.

Not to say there isnt any other possible reason for this, as my bearings have done this on straight axels once in a  blue moon.

But whenever it has KEPT happening consistently/frequently, a bent axel was the culprit. 

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Re: Bearings moving in the bearing seat
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2023, 06:36:14 AM »
Sounds to me like your axel(s) might be bent.

From my experiences this is usually what makes bearings back out of their seat this way.

Not to say there isnt any other possible reason for this, as my bearings have done this on straight axels once in a  blue moon.

But whenever it has KEPT happening consistently/frequently, a bent axel was the culprit.

This was one of my first theories, but I've had it happen on two sets of Indys, a set of Thunders, and Ace AF1's. I'm also just under 140lbs and pretty much only skate transition so I'm not taking on enough impact to bend my axles. The only thing that I can see causing it on my end is how I lock into grinds since I push all the way up against the wheel, but at the same time, I can't see that causing any more lateral impact than someone who does a ton of slappies.
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sbr

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Re: Bearings moving in the bearing seat
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2023, 06:38:53 AM »
Never had this happen but could see it happening. To me, longboard type bearings would be a band-aid fix. The real solution would be a set of wheels that are made to tighter tolerances.

The only wheels I've found that didn't have obvious runout and inaccurate bearing seats are wheels made by Creative Urethane (an OEM some brands use) that also had hard cores or some kind of dual duro construction. Also the only wheels where I could use high quality steel spacers and tighten down the wheel all the way without affecting spin.

BITD no one I knew used spacers because none of the bearings most skaters could afford came with them. If the wheels are poured inaccurately, it's probably best to ditch the spacers because they might cause a problem. I wouldn't use fancy bearings in those types of wheels either.

As for quality being better BITD, sometimes it was, sometimes it wasn't. Every brand of trucks seemed to get axle slip back in the 90s at one point and we were constantly banging our axles on the concrete while skating. Sometimes boards would suck also and lose pop (e.g. become "soggy") in less than 2 weeks. There was no consistency with certain board brands either back then.

I 100% feel you on the BITD issues of axle slip and inconsistent board quality, but I'm not talking that far back. It's been less than 10 years since OJ's last made wheels in the US and I'm pretty sure that is the same deal for Spitfire. This is an issue I've never experienced in decades of being on a board and all of a sudden it started consistently happening right about the time we started seeing mfg shortages due to the pandemic. Also, oddly enough... the last set of F4's I got were much more white than the normal beige color so I'm not sure if the formula changed any or if they switched factories or something.

If we're going way BITD... I remember going to remove a set of bearings from a well-worn set of Spitfire classics and having the bearing explode because the outer race cold welded itself to the wheel lol
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IpathCats

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Re: Bearings moving in the bearing seat
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2023, 06:40:52 AM »
Expand Quote
Sounds to me like your axel(s) might be bent.

From my experiences this is usually what makes bearings back out of their seat this way.

Not to say there isnt any other possible reason for this, as my bearings have done this on straight axels once in a  blue moon.

But whenever it has KEPT happening consistently/frequently, a bent axel was the culprit.
[close]

This was one of my first theories, but I've had it happen on two sets of Indys, a set of Thunders, and Ace AF1's. I'm also just under 140lbs and pretty much only skate transition so I'm not taking on enough impact to bend my axles. The only thing that I can see causing it on my end is how I lock into grinds since I push all the way up against the wheel, but at the same time, I can't see that causing any more lateral impact than someone who does a ton of slappies.

Ah, my bad, I skimmed the thread and didnt see that mentioned.

Wouldn't locking into grinds exert forces that would push the bearings inward towards the seat?

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Re: Bearings moving in the bearing seat
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2023, 06:49:45 AM »
Happens to me when I do a lot of slappies. My guess, for at least my issue, is the way I slam into the curbs causing some crazy torque and the bearings slide out. Usually tighten the bearings back into place and it doesn't happen again for a while. I too thought it was a particular set of wheels but it's happened over a few different shapes and duro's
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Re: Bearings moving in the bearing seat
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2023, 06:55:06 AM »


I 100% feel you on the BITD issues of axle slip and inconsistent board quality, but I'm not talking that far back. It's been less than 10 years since OJ's last made wheels in the US and I'm pretty sure that is the same deal for Spitfire. This is an issue I've never experienced in decades of being on a board and all of a sudden it started consistently happening right about the time we started seeing mfg shortages due to the pandemic. Also, oddly enough... the last set of F4's I got were much more white than the normal beige color so I'm not sure if the formula changed any or if they switched factories or something.

If we're going way BITD... I remember going to remove a set of bearings from a well-worn set of Spitfire classics and having the bearing explode because the outer race cold welded itself to the wheel lol

The USA made Spitfires I last bought (over 10 years ago) were horrible quality in terms of runout and bearing seat accuracy. Urethane was okay. I don't know where they are making them now, but wouldn't be buying another set anyway.

Didn't care about wheel accuracy BITD, nor did anyone I know care that much about flat spotting or chipping which was common. Nowadays if I am paying $40+ for a set of wheels they should be made properly.

Re: manufacturing QC during the pandemic, a lot of industries were impacted. I've seen bad quality from all sorts of things. No qualms about returning stuff either. Might be hard to return a set of wheels though.

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Re: Bearings moving in the bearing seat
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2023, 06:56:48 AM »
Expand Quote
Sounds to me like your axel(s) might be bent.

From my experiences this is usually what makes bearings back out of their seat this way.

Not to say there isnt any other possible reason for this, as my bearings have done this on straight axels once in a  blue moon.

But whenever it has KEPT happening consistently/frequently, a bent axel was the culprit.
[close]

This was one of my first theories, but I've had it happen on two sets of Indys, a set of Thunders, and Ace AF1's. I'm also just under 140lbs and pretty much only skate transition so I'm not taking on enough impact to bend my axles. The only thing that I can see causing it on my end is how I lock into grinds since I push all the way up against the wheel, but at the same time, I can't see that causing any more lateral impact than someone who does a ton of slappies.

It should be easy enough to check for bent axles if you take the wheel off and square up an accurate ruler or level or something. It should be obvious that way. I would be shocked if you are bending axles at 140lbs though.

sbr

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Re: Bearings moving in the bearing seat
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2023, 07:00:46 AM »

Ah, my bad, I skimmed the thread and didnt see that mentioned.

Wouldn't locking into grinds exert forces that would push the bearings inward towards the seat?

Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Sounds to me like your axel(s) might be bent.

From my experiences this is usually what makes bearings back out of their seat this way.

Not to say there isnt any other possible reason for this, as my bearings have done this on straight axels once in a  blue moon.

But whenever it has KEPT happening consistently/frequently, a bent axel was the culprit.
[close]

This was one of my first theories, but I've had it happen on two sets of Indys, a set of Thunders, and Ace AF1's. I'm also just under 140lbs and pretty much only skate transition so I'm not taking on enough impact to bend my axles. The only thing that I can see causing it on my end is how I lock into grinds since I push all the way up against the wheel, but at the same time, I can't see that causing any more lateral impact than someone who does a ton of slappies.
[close]

Ah, my bad, I skimmed the thread and didnt see that mentioned.

Wouldn't locking into grinds exert forces that would push the bearings inward towards the seat?

Most times yes, but the biggest cause of the wheel binding up is if my front toe side wheel touches the deck during feebles / feeble fakies. I also had it happen when I bailed a few slide & rolls on Saturday from the board knocking the wheel on the way into the bowl.

Also, going back to the mfg inconsistencies mentioned previously, here is the 58 F4 Classics I have on my board and the 56 F4 Classics my son has on his board. This is the first time I've had a set of F4's look white and not tan/beige (it's way more apparent in natural light). Maybe a change in formula or shopping factories around has changed how strict they are on QC or what they consider acceptable mfg tolerances?

My skating has not changed much at all over the past decade, and with the issue happening over the past 1-2 years I feel like something had to have changed that is mfg related to amplify this. Stoked I'm not the only one that it's happening to because it makes me feel like less of a head case hahaha

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Re: Bearings moving in the bearing seat
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2023, 07:21:59 AM »
I've got a couch or loveseat crail board with a set of zealous ceramics and mIndys. Sounds dead as hell but rides fast and everything is flush with one washer.

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Re: Bearings moving in the bearing seat
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2023, 08:17:45 AM »
I may be wrong about this but, FWIW, I believe the F4s are still poured right here in SF.
Can somebody w/ the inside scoop fill me in on what’s doing over at Pointech, if those aren’t F4s I see them making in there whenever I stroll on by on lunch break?
‘Cause they seem to be busy doing SOMETHING in there.

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Re: Bearings moving in the bearing seat
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2023, 05:37:18 PM »
A lot of the F4s coming through the shop lately say “Made in Mexico” on the tiny barcode sticker.

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Re: Bearings moving in the bearing seat
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2023, 05:43:41 PM »
Every set  of F4s I have had in the last few years has been made in Mexico. And every set has been great.

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Re: Bearings moving in the bearing seat
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2023, 06:10:54 PM »
Expand Quote
Im dealing with it rn but it only is a real problem after both wheels get around the curb and I get stuck. 5.8 is almost exactly the same size as the local TV and Peace curbs.

I ride spacers with just a click of wiggle. You can hear it but you can't see the wheel move.
I'm sure once dirt gets between there it's tight.  I ride extra washers on the outside of my wheels.
I think this might be a bad move. Might self loosen. There's considerable wear between the two washers and no extra threads showing. I could flip the nuts but I'll have to use new nuts next time I remove the wheels.

1 backwards threading = like 4 regular threading and if you don't do it perfectly it's super glue time.

So when I noticed they was unseated I loosened my nuts put the board on flat ground and stomped on the truck bolts to reseat the bearings. I learned that from my homies who long board. Works almost every time with a soft wheel. It'll get you though the session

 Rn I'm pulling everything apart and I'm going to swing the extra washers to the truck side and use different spacers. The ones that came with my Swiss Bearings is able to rattle between my bearings in my front two wheels. Probably because that's the trick that bites the curb.

If the Rat Bone 2 was a few mm wider I'm sure it would not grab the curb. The 56mm dF is wider I think. This wouldn't be an issue.

Dragons appear to have slightly less core material between the  the seats. Idk if this makes it easier to twist and unseat.

It's all good tho after I stomp that and stay away from front 50s.
[close]

I've been using the shoe pressure to re-seat trick as long as this has been happening (normally a quick fix because it's almost always the outer facing bearing on the toe side front wheel), but this gets old quick after it happens a few times during a session. The bizarre issue is I was having the opposite issue with center spacers where rather than rattling around in the center of the wheel, it was just long enough to pop one of 2 bearings out a tiny bit from being fully seated against the core of the wheel when putting the other bearing in. This is a totally new issue for me and I got my hands on a set of NOS OJ's from when they were still made in the US so I'm going to see if that makes any bit of difference. If it's still happening, I think Mbrimson88's suggestion of extended race bearings is next to try.

"Racing" bearings maybe not these Bones ones have one ball less in the race. This reduces friction but also reduces strength.


Next bearings I cop are going to be quantum ceramics. Promised them I would when they first started I would cop when my last set of bones are done. The white shields have melted several have broken off. I got those ones in 2016.
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Re: Bearings moving in the bearing seat
« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2023, 12:40:37 PM »
@Mbrimson88 when you install those race reds, do you not have the issue that sbr mentioned of having the first-installed bearing push out a bit when you install the second one?  (i.e., do the lengths of the two built-in inside race spacers added together equal a shorter total length than the length of a regular spacer?)

(The few times I have tried spacers, I have usually had that issue where the first bearing installed gets pushed out a bit when I install the second, so I gave up on spacers.)

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Re: Bearings moving in the bearing seat
« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2023, 02:19:52 PM »
@Mbrimson88 when you install those race reds, do you not have the issue that sbr mentioned of having the first-installed bearing push out a bit when you install the second one?  (i.e., do the lengths of the two built-in inside race spacers added together equal a shorter total length than the length of a regular spacer?)

(The few times I have tried spacers, I have usually had that issue where the first bearing installed gets pushed out a bit when I install the second, so I gave up on spacers.)

The Race Reds I ordered came in today and this happened. I went out and skated my quarter for a bit and these moved in the seats more than anything I've tried thus far.

I'm back to running my Bronson Ceramics without the tube spacer so the bearings fully seat in the wheel and hopefully the issue stays to a minimum.
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Re: Bearings moving in the bearing seat
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2023, 03:57:39 PM »
Dang, I feel bad for this poor homey. Any/all combos of bearing & wheel, spacers or otherwise (you HAVE tried running NO spacers, riiiiiight?!?) yield the same results.
I’m no Shredlock Holmes over here, but I’m gonna guess that, while a very real issue, the fact that it re-occurs for you, regardless of wheels/bearings used, speaks to a need to adjust your current technique, as NO gear can presently withstand your considerable gnar.
You’re gonna have to talk to silhouette for tips on technique though, on account of I have only ever experienced this ish with soft-ass cruiser wheels & have no advice to impart as a result.
Good luck on your quest, brave knight.

I wanna play you in a game of SKATE for the right to continue talking shit on me.  You think you got me?

Mbrimson88

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Re: Bearings moving in the bearing seat
« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2023, 05:34:02 PM »
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@Mbrimson88 when you install those race reds, do you not have the issue that sbr mentioned of having the first-installed bearing push out a bit when you install the second one?  (i.e., do the lengths of the two built-in inside race spacers added together equal a shorter total length than the length of a regular spacer?)

(The few times I have tried spacers, I have usually had that issue where the first bearing installed gets pushed out a bit when I install the second, so I gave up on spacers.)
[close]

The Race Reds I ordered came in today and this happened. I went out and skated my quarter for a bit and these moved in the seats more than anything I've tried thus far.

I'm back to running my Bronson Ceramics without the tube spacer so the bearings fully seat in the wheel and hopefully the issue stays to a minimum.


Wow.

That is so weird.

I would say definitely the wheels, but without seeing them in person, or checking things I would not know.


As to the extended bearings, I dug out a board with them on and tried a few different sets of wheels on them last night at the indoor park and on a couple of sets, they pushed each other a touch, but on the wheels I had the issues with originally, they sat fairly well.

All the wheels still skated fine, no issues, no movement and the bearings still spun well, even on hard sideways push tricks and they were the wheels that the normal bearings had issues in previously.

The wheels that had issues I did have the nut tightened down with no play, but on all the other wheels, I left a bit as I usually would.


So I am curious:

- which wheels are you running?

- how hard or easy was it to push the bearings into the wheels?  I usually just put two bearings face up on a truck axle and push them on like that.

- was it only on certain tricks, certain wheel or all wheels?

- did you have some play, or tighten them down so there was no play?

I talk too much about skateboards.  Sorry.

Mbrimson88

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Re: Bearings moving in the bearing seat
« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2023, 05:42:26 PM »
So I’ve seen mention of this in a few threads but no specific thread for it, so I figured I’d start one…

After decades of never once experiencing this, I’ve had about a year from hell with almost all wheel/bearing combinations I set up having the bearings creep around in the bearing seats to some extent. Sometimes making the spin suck, other times going crooked enough to fully bind up and have to be reseated (predominantly happening in my toe side front wheel, but has happened in others infrequently).

I’ve done multiple F4 99a cuts & sizes, Bones SPF 84b & 81b (happened worse to me in these), Speedlab 99a OJ og formula 99a and Elite 101a and have tried Bronson and Bones bearings with them (with and without tube spacers). The issue is far more consistent when running tube spacers, presumably because the core inconsistencies in the molds prevent the bearing from fully seating with them in (i.e. in a set of F4 56 classics, I had only 1 wheel able to fully seat bearings with the tube spacer. The other three you’d seat one side fully, flip it around to press the other bearing and spacer on and feel the already installed bearing push out of the seat). Also tried cleaning the seats and outsides of the races with isopropyl alcohol, which slowed the issue from happening, but it still happened.

If anyone has had this happen and found a solution, I’d love to hear it. If you’re also experiencing this with no fix, maybe we can complain to one another about how awful mfg quality is now and reminisce of the days where it was damn near impossible to pry bearings out of wheels…


Most times yes, but the biggest cause of the wheel binding up is if my front toe side wheel touches the deck during feebles / feeble fakies. I also had it happen when I bailed a few slide & rolls on Saturday from the board knocking the wheel on the way into the bowl.

Also, going back to the mfg inconsistencies mentioned previously, here is the 58 F4 Classics I have on my board and the 56 F4 Classics my son has on his board. This is the first time I've had a set of F4's look white and not tan/beige (it's way more apparent in natural light). Maybe a change in formula or shopping factories around has changed how strict they are on QC or what they consider acceptable mfg tolerances?

My skating has not changed much at all over the past decade, and with the issue happening over the past 1-2 years I feel like something had to have changed that is mfg related to amplify this. Stoked I'm not the only one that it's happening to because it makes me feel like less of a head case hahaha





Also just checking if you skate the other board from that pic does the same thing happen?

Wondering if truck, wheel, bearing combo or something else, but as per your list of wheels tried here, that is pretty much all brands worth a mention in the wheel category, but swapping in or out one thing at a time, or if whatever you are doing does or doesn't happen on the other board may be a start.

The board your son has compared to your board, as well as when did you get the current trucks you are riding and did it start before or after you had those too?

It might be a stretch to make him skate your wheels and bearings on his board, but it would be interesting to try those on a different set of trucks and see if something changed there too.

Stranger things have happened, but I wouldn't be tossing the Race Reds quite so soon as you did the Swiss or those wheels, as per your sale thread.


* For what it is worth, I picked up a set of the Classic 58mm Formula Four wheels and they were a lighter colour than the others I have, but I just put that down to a newer batch and they skate fine on two boards I have set up, as well as for the person who I traded them with - they just wanted wider wheels.

I talk too much about skateboards.  Sorry.

sbr

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Re: Bearings moving in the bearing seat
« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2023, 01:17:44 PM »
1] Which wheels are you running?: Currently, OJ Elite Hardline 99a 56's with Bronson Ceramics (no center spacers). When I put the bearings in I had that "pop one in, go to put the other on with a spacer and the already seated bearing pops out" issue so I ditched the spacers to let the bearings fully seat to the core of the wheel.

But the issue has happened with:
  • Spitfire F4 Classic 99a 58's
  • Spitfire F4 Classic 99a 56's
  • Spitfire F4 Classic 99a 55's
  • Spitfire F4 Conical Full 99a 58's
  • Spitfire F4 Conical Full 99a 54's
  • Bones SPF 84b 58's
  • Bones SPF 81b 58's
  • Speedlab Slappy Hour 99a 58's
  • OJ Original Formula Hardline 99a 55's
  • OJ Original Formula Mini Combo 99a 56's
  • Bones Swiss
  • Bones Swiss Ceramics
  • Bronson Raws
  • Bronson Ceramics

So I can tell you for sure it's not isolated to a specific brand (It's me, hi... I'm the problem, it's me...)

2] How hard or easy was it to push the bearings into the wheels?: Not any more or less difficult than it's ever been, aside from the Bones SPF's which sucked to press bearings into. I've put them on as I always have - bearing on the truck, press it in, 2nd bearing down with tube spacer facing up, and press that one in. I also used a bearing press to try and get proper alignment, but it made absolutely no difference.

3] Was it only on certain tricks, certain wheel, or all wheels?: The issue mostly manifests itself on the front toe side wheel when doing feebles on transition (when the wheel hits the deck on an angle) in all of the wheels. In the Hardline 55's I did have it happen slightly in one of my rear wheels, but it didn't go crooked enough to bind the wheel up (the slight slack in the wheel just disappeared).

4] Did you have some play, or tighten them down so there was no play?: I've never run 0 play in a wheel aside from testing the Race Reds which I tried with slight play and no play. The rest have had slight wiggle room but not a whole lot of slop (with and without tube spacers)

5] Also just checking if you skate the other board from that pic does the same thing happen?: It's a 7.75" mini shape so the leverage point is different, but the issue has happened on my sons board when he skate it (surprise, with feebles) but after I took the tube spacers out of his wheels (Thunders / Bones Swiss / Spitfire F4 Classic 99A 56) which allowed the bearings to fully seat in the wheels and the issue has pretty much gone away for him.

6] Wondering if truck, wheel, bearing combo or something else, but as per your list of wheels tried here, that is pretty much all brands worth a mention in the wheel category, but swapping in or out one thing at a time, or if whatever you are doing does or doesn't happen on the other board may be a start: So this has happened on Aces, Thunders and Indys... BUT I have only tried the no spacer setup on Aces thus far...

7] The board your son has compared to your board, as well as when did you get the current trucks you are riding and did it start before or after you had those too?: It's been a consistent issue across pretty much everything I've had over the past 1 1/2 - 2 years

8] It might be a stretch to make him skate your wheels and bearings on his board, but it would be interesting to try those on a different set of trucks and see if something changed there too: Since the issue has happened for him as well, I don't think swapping wheels will change the result. I'm going to be setting up Stage 4's soon and I'm hoping those with no spacer will make some kind of difference.

The one curious thing I noticed when throwing the Elites on was the AF1's have more threads than the Thunders do and the threads appear to be a slightly smaller outer diameter than the axle itself. Even if you ditch the tube spacer and speed washers you're not getting the center race of the bearing to have enough contact on the axle itself to prevent it from having a free wobble, which I assume is contributing to the issue (impact on the wheel from it hitting pushes unevenly on the center race and causes the outer bearing to go crooked). This is something I didn't even have register to me as potentially being part of the issue, so we'll see once I get the Stage 4's if it makes any bit of difference.
Small man, big board...
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Mbrimson88

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Re: Bearings moving in the bearing seat
« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2023, 02:59:43 PM »

The one curious thing I noticed when throwing the Elites on was the AF1's have more threads than the Thunders do and the threads appear to be a slightly smaller outer diameter than the axle itself. Even if you ditch the tube spacer and speed washers you're not getting the center race of the bearing to have enough contact on the axle itself to prevent it from having a free wobble, which I assume is contributing to the issue (impact on the wheel from it hitting pushes unevenly on the center race and causes the outer bearing to go crooked). This is something I didn't even have register to me as potentially being part of the issue, so we'll see once I get the Stage 4's if it makes any bit of difference.




Thanks for the detailed info - it sure is one of those funny ones, to happen to so many setup options, but as you came to the conclusion in the last paragraph, I am wondering if Ace "quality control" had something to do with it, not wholely the issue, but at least contributing to it in some way.

That was the thought I had earlier, but I didn't want to say it straight away, as well as not having your setup to look at or skate, so I didn't know all the facts and was limited by my own experiences and what I read for this one.

I used to push one back wheel out on a set in question on smith grinds on ramps, due to the angle and the pressure, so if I didn't do that trick, I would have fewer issues, but every run I would have to pop the wheel back on to the bearing correctly, if a smith was done in the run.  Not being about to stop doing smith grinds, so I tried the same as race reds (different brand) and it stopped the issue, but my board did have a little of the "dead" sound from having that one axle nut tightened down, but I left all the others with some play.

When I switched out those wheels, I didn't have the same issue, but that was my experience there.  I since put those same bearings in cruiser wheels that are softer with no core, and they have stopped the same thing happening when I use that board, hard sharp curvy turns would usually result in the bearings moving in the wheels, which now hold fast, again with all four tightened right down, but I am not worried if there is a little lateral movement as everything stays where it should be and the bearings spin freely.

I know that doesn't help this situation, but that is in detail pretty much my own experience with similar things.  Others I have known to have wheels with bearing seats widening out, so the bearings pretty much fall out of the wheels usually result in those guys just stop skating those wheels, or have tried various bearings until something fits, even to the point of putting something in the wheel to try to gap up the difference, but I think that is not a good solution.

Wheels being urethane will bend and stretch even more, or reshape / misshape easily.


Also to mention here, there had been issues with some Spitfire wheels where their core was not made correctly, so one bearing might not seat fully, but the wheels I saw that had this issue were few and far between and I could not get bearings into the one wheel in question to full get it on the truck normally, so this is almost completely ruled out, even though I could see mention of quality control issues for some things like this being brought up.

The list of the big wheel brands all having the issue made me think of other factors, trucks maybe, or whatever, but any which way it sure is annoying to have that happen.

Not to ask too much, but is it possible to set up or have filmed a feeble or trick in question that you think is causing the issue?  I don't care how good, how big, how well done it is - just want to see it, more because I am so curious, but also this sort of thing is very interesting to me in terms of knowing what and all that.





I talk too much about skateboards.  Sorry.

Mbrimson88

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Re: Bearings moving in the bearing seat
« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2023, 08:22:46 PM »
.

I also meant to ask earlier, where are you in the world, a hot climate, or average?

Do you do anything to the wheels, drop lube in them before putting in bearings or anything else too?

One guy who used to always put a dab of grease round the inside of each wheel would have way more issues with the bearings slipping out, compared to others who just jammed them in there, but realistically the bearings should have a little coating to get new bearings into new wheels, only needing a tiny bit of lube or something if bearings just don't go in easily.


I talk too much about skateboards.  Sorry.

bombsaway86

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Re: Bearings moving in the bearing seat
« Reply #29 on: February 02, 2023, 09:28:58 PM »
I’ve commented on this issue in other threads. This has been happening to me for years even after replacing wheels, bearings, and trucks. I’ve noticed it happens more frequently when it’s hotter outside or when I’m hauling ass (skating bowls). It happens a lot less when it’s cold out or if I skate mini ramp (skating a lot slower). When skating bowls, it happens every run. On mini ramp it will happen once or twice in an hour long session.

Removing spacers helps reduce the occurrence, but it still happens. Wheels with cores also help a lot too. Too bad I prefer Spitfires and have convinced myself that I need to use spacers because they came with the bearings.