Poll: should we let soletech die

[KDP]

And, I'll forever be disappointed with SoleTech relying on distribution companies outside of the US. Their use of distribution companies is a shortcut and one that backfired immensely in the Russian market a decade ago when Gosha Konyshev went from repping his Emerica sponsorship to riding for a different shoe company that actually put effort into understand the local market and didn't have to worry about the politics between the local distribution companies.

That's not entirely true. They are direct in several countries outside of the US.

Also, overheads for footwear are so much more expensive than hard goods. And then there is staff. And a place to work from.

If you are a small company, an office, employed staff and all the expenses which come with that just are so financially unviable. A distributor would be the only way to go.

Also, also...Russia. Even if a brand was direct - there are embargos in place. Or were. I believe they still are.
Ain't no one riding for a brand direct or otherwise when you simply cannot ship there with the current war going on.

They also try to act like they're DLX, but don't do any of the community support that DLX does. DLX not only makes a solid product, but they make a visible effort to support the local skate communities. SoleTech does neither.

...and DLX is entirely distributor model outside of North America.

[Mongo Lloyd]

I mean it Soletech dies it is by their own hands. The consumer isn’t obligated to purchase questionable designs with inferior quality.

It seems like Soletech companies have been tone deaf for some time now, and half baked reissues isn’t gonna cut it.

Create staples, keep the quality consistent, stop cutting corners and offer digestible colorways.

Shoe companies really used the popularity of the vulcanized shoe to bone the consumer with increasingly disposable trash.

[manysnakes]

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Soletech has a foot in the grave but the amount of people simping for the corporate shoe brands is exhausting. Yall are just as bad as the "only skate core brands" people. Buy what you want, but don't feel some strange need to justify it.

"their tech is better" skateboarding is legit almost technology-resistant. Are yall out there skating powell flight decks or Almost "Uber Pop" back in the day? Hell no, you're skating whatever your favorite cool boi brand is. I mentioned this in another thread but, why did thin vulcs thrive in the heyday of hucking? Because tech barely matters in skateboarding. The products are primarily bought by teenagers who couldn't give a shit if they blew mom and dad's money (I know I didn't back in the day). It is all marketing an image.

People will talk up these better materials and tech and completely ignore the fact that everyone gives vans a free pass when they've been making the same low to mid-quality shoes for 40 years. Why? Because people like their marketing and non-skaters will think you're cool when you wear them.

When was the last time Pierre even skated? Someone posts a video of him doing an impossible at 60 lol. Can't make this shit up.

I don't care if it's soletech but a market with only those big brands is like four different flavors of vanilla. I got into skateboarding when I was young because I didn't like traditional sports and skateboard-only brands were appealing. Yeah Nike sponsors Max Palmer but Nyjah and P Rod are the ones with shoes.

[close]

Nah, the jeans got tighter and the puffy shoes didn’t look right with them. Also, and just my theory, those tech shoes lasted longer than vulcs… what shoe company wouldn’t want kids to buy shoes more often than not…

And as far as sole tech, their time in skateboarding is pretty much over. What everyone knew what was going to happen once Nike came in the game happened…

Last time Soletech was on top was when they were sponsoring the top skateboarders… Arto on Etnies… Koston, Prod, and Ladd on Es… Reynolds on Emerica…

Nike, Adidas, and NB sponsor everyone now and kids wanna buy the shoes their favorite skater wears. Soletech doesn’t have any mega popular skaters modeling their shit that’s their problem.

[close]

I also don't feel like skateboarding shoe sales is even the main motivator behind these big companies coming into skateboarding. They're down to take a loss to have that "cool" rub off on their brand as long as skateboarding is in fashion.

I don't know whether or not they're losing money, but it is absolutely the case that Nike's second adventure into skating was explicitly done in order to boost their street credibility. They have been pretty upfront about this: Skaters are "cool" and obsessed with branding (see half of the threads on the main page). If they can get skaters to love their brand, then some of that clout will rub off onto Nike. I imagine that this worked beautifully.

[emotional_degloving]

When was the last time Pierre even skated? Someone posts a video of him doing an impossible at 60 lol. Can't make this shit up.

ok whatever big dick sorry I don't follow the president of soletech's insta

My point in saying that was "is this man in-touch with skating culture as it exists now, has he or his companies done anything relevant for the culture etc aside from leech off it". Skater-owned carries certain connotations- that they not only skate themselves but support the wider skating community and actually understanding it as it is today.

The soletech is legit, the michellin stuff is wicked but I guarantee this dude doesn't talk to his teams or designers.
The shoe quality is pretty much the same as Nike/Adidas/NB/Vans. Hell probably all made at the same damn factory for pennies.

[EdLawndale]

I love the design and feel of many eS shoes.

But what's up with the blatant outspoken transphobia -- and otherwise kooky shit -- I've seen on social media from some of the folks working behind the scenes at Sole Tech? In 2024? How old are these guys? And how come this isn't being addressed?

[Can he read]

I love the design and feel of many eS shoes.

But what's up with the blatant outspoken transphobia I've seen on social media from some of the folks working behind the scenes at Sole Tech? In 2024? How old are these guys? And how come this isn't being addressed?

I’ve never heard about any of that but please post any links or screenshots. Put that shit on blast and I’ll pass it on

[Mongo Lloyd]

I like to imagine the kid in the Reason is out there somewhere still following skateboarding, and getting the last laugh.

[EdLawndale]

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I love the design and feel of many eS shoes.

But what's up with the blatant outspoken transphobia I've seen on social media from some of the folks working behind the scenes at Sole Tech? In 2024? How old are these guys? And how come this isn't being addressed?

[close]

I’ve never heard about any of that but please post any links or screenshots. Put that shit on blast and I’ll pass it on

For instance, as I understand it, this Leighton Dyer fellow is some kind of NZ-based "Global Art Director" at Sole Tech (and one of the co-founders of Muckmouth).

[MtnDoucheBag]

I don’t think you understand how the industry works, but that’s okay because I don’t either.

[TheLurper]

That's not entirely true. They are direct in several countries outside of the US.

Also, overheads for footwear are so much more expensive than hard goods. And then there is staff. And a place to work from.

If you are a small company, an office, employed staff and all the expenses which come with that just are so financially unviable. A distributor would be the only way to go.

Also, also...Russia. Even if a brand was direct - there are embargos in place. Or were. I believe they still are.
Ain't no one riding for a brand direct or otherwise when you simply cannot ship there with the current war going on.

1. Embargo. Sanctions Yes, this is why I mentioned a decade ago. Not present day.
2. Overhead higher, ok, profit is immensely higher as well. This is not a valid excuse for SoleTech.
3. Sole Tech is a small company. No. I'm not buying this with SoleTech. They were one of the biggest companies in skateboarding and, like DC had money to use to improve/manage their international distribution model. DC, Nike, Vans, etc. all sold directly to the Russian market. Sole Tech could have easily hired a local to manage distribution.
The only out I will give them was with the intense corruption of the Russian market/need for bribes, it might have been too much for them to handle. But this isn't an excuse for all other international markets.


And, what countries does SoleTech manage their distribution to? I'm 90% sure that they don't even manage their Canadian distribution, unless they got to the point where their sales are so low the distribution dropped them.

Your argument that the local distribution model is cheaper only furthers my point that SoleTech's cheapness, laziness, and short-sighted vision plays a role in their downfall.

...and DLX is entirely distributor model outside of North America.

This does not change the fact that SoleTech's support for the American skate scenes is much weaker than DLX. The point is very much, DLX with immensely lower profit margins makes a far more visible impact on the local skate scenes in America.

Sole Tech tried to float on the hollow image of "skater owned," without the skater owned company attribute that encourages them to place the scene above profit in some cases. Something, Sole Tech wasn't doing nearly as often as they needed to be: https://www.skateboarding.com/news/skateboarding-though-corporate-america-we-are-inefficient-and-proud

Edit: Corrected embargo to sanctions.

[SlapTM]

I don't know how to feel about soletech yanno. I like them but I also wish they'd get their shit together or liquidate already.
To preface, I have no nostalgia for the brands like a lot of people because I'm 20. I dunno where to start with my shitty essay so here goes.

Soletech need to get a grip or die already. I don't want em to die but it's fucking annoying. They don't know who they're marketing to anymore, aside from eS who have cornered the "30 to 55 year olds with cash to blow on expensive reissues for the hell of it".

Nowadays they fucking leech off their history and the "skater owned" status. When was the last time Pierre Andre got on a skateboard or Don Brown did something other than damage the brand? Jerry Hsu put it perfectly in his recent interview (can't remember which mag), it's a marketing term. They have business ghouls running the show, the types that do the Angela Merkel thing with their hands and talk about "synergy" and "solutions" and other buzzwords from that adult swim For-Profit Online University sketch. Nike and Adidas have more skaters running the show in their skate division than Soletech. New Balance Numeric have more claim to being skater-owned than fucking Soletech.
And with "skater owned" there's this certain aire to it, an expectation that "skater owned" means they support skaters- support their riders and support their community. Soletech doesn't do shit! They haven't for years! Everything they do for the "skate community" literally exists exclusively in California and even then in like the suburbs of Orange County, unless it's Go Skate day where they'll drop like a garish lookin shoe. I've been to many events in my city recently- the Adidas bench demos outside shops and like jams at the DIY in the summer. You know who's fucking put money towards that? Adidas, Nike, New Balance. Fucking hell at the DIY jam, Nike gave out like limited edition dunks to be raffled off to support the DIY. I think Dunks and the people who wear them are fucking lame as hell but the way they support shops with that shit is like a net positive. I think it creates imbalance in cities with multiple shops, but generally I think it's alright. You can call it leeching but who's actually putting the money in to help fund and cultivate these events. I imagine soletech TMs try to look after the skaters, I know EmericaTM/SlapTM tried hard but was over-worked, spread too thin and just generally fucked around by higher powers. Upper management doesn't give a shit. I don't expect Nike/Adidas upper management to give a shit either but they don't have to think about it- maybe because they're so massive they can just have a section of the company in skateboarding.

Last Resort is a legit skater owned and operated brand with less money, manpower and infestructure as Soletech, Nike, Adidas, New Balance, DC, but people bought that shit up and still love the shoes. I thought they were kinda shit but they're dedicated to actually giving back to skateboarding.

Personally the shoes from soletech fit me perfectly, I've got size 12 stompers, they have a wide fit and are generally very comfortable and skate fantastically stock. My favourite models are the Kingpin, Marana, Joslin, Accel OG & Slim, Silo, Omen and Spanky. Never had a bad experience with them. However, those are probably the least fucked looking Soletech shoes you can find, and "least fucked" is pushing it with the Accel OG's inflated ass (they fit my big feet fine but they look goofy on smaller feet). The tech in soletech is legit, Joslin/Marana is a mega shoe. But it's just all fucked because of bad colourways and rapidly inflating prices.

If corporate monopolies like Nike, Adidas, VF CORP aren't your friends, why the fuck is soletech? They're money grubbing ghouls as well, that's what they're all after.

Said this in the Skecks of Etnies thread, but lemme run Soletech. Select 7 slap members to become the Soletech 7 and shut down like the fucking 5 companies under the brand all fighting for scraps of money, bring it all in, unionize every worker at every level of production, do shit for skating instead of leeching. Get it all going.

A lot of good stuff in here. The thing is that there's just too many flaws at Sole Tech. For starters, you've got the older guys who are just out of touch. They're not in the van or hitting the streets with the youth anymore so they're out of touch versus guys like Dill/Reynolds, etc who are around the kids and seeing what's relevant and trending. Also, a lot of success from businesses comes from them paying the correct people to run the business and/or departments. When you've got an owner putting their input and worrying about day to day operations when they should be using their time to take on much more important tasks. Most of these brands peaked and blossomed when the control and power were given to the employees who were hired to do so.

From my personal experience throughout the years I’ve witness many brands lacking the will to change. During my days at Sole Tech, for years I tried to make changes and be creative with new ways of operations. The thing is with an older crowd, they're not too interested on trying to taking different or new approaches especially when it comes from someone almost half their age. What may have worked 20 years doesn't mean it will work today and adaptation is crucial to any brands survival. I can't even tell you how many times I tried to get everybody to sit down and have some hard but realistic in-depth conversations on what's working, what isn't and basically start from scratch with a new workflow. Five years there and no conversation was had. Same thing post-COVID when the signs of another recession was coming, I reached out numerous times to put a plan together to and discuss how to enter a recession as a business and no one wanted to talk about it. Even at the end, I was digging into the sales numbers and spent my holiday visiting family but in reality worked and spent the entire time putting together a plan to improve business on the sales side and then requested to meet to go over said plan to create a strategy and no response. Truth be told every time I would ask questions regarding any sort of sales data (just to find out what's working and what isn't when I'm being asked to come up with new strategies) sales employees would get extremely defensive and not want to answer any sort of questions or give numbers or want to discuss even when coming from a place to help versus a finger pointing situation. There were times we’d get sales results/data and rather than getting everyone to figure out how to improve, it was basically "okay see ya next season". Truth is that nobody wants to be held accountable to do the work. I've even told everybody myself that the brands and products are not trendy or "cool" and the second we admit that to ourselves and use that knowledge that to then create a strategy to make the brands more on trend. Unfortunately, when everyone refuses to realize that and continue to think they've created the best product in the world almost to the point where it seems the consumers are lucky to be able to buy their product, you're sort of already blowing it.

Lastly, the lack of strategy is probably these type of brand's weakest link. From heavily discounting shoes on their website to even on the marketing side, they have always chosen to cut corners. Sure, when these brands were all doing 8 figures annually a few decades ago, just a few percent being allocated to marketing was still in the million + dollar range. Fast forward 20 years and a few percent now means basically nothing for the entire marketing from team riders, tours, advertising, video projects, filmers/photographers, etc. No brand can survive this day and age with such little support for marketing when in skating, your marketing is just about everything. Of course designs and product play a heavy factor too but marketing is everything. Maybe too personal but I've always been very straight up and transparent with everyone on this board and I got tired of having to cut things every year and letting friends go. I was over it and I realized when you just keep cutting and cutting, you're just digging yourself into a much deeper hole that's going to be a lot harder to get out of. Anyways, we weren't given enough budget to even have a fighting chance so yeah for the last several years I offered to invest my own money into the brand to give us a chance to do the things a brand needs to do to not only stay afloat but also have a decent change on growing the brand. Year after year, budget after budget, I couldn't even get a simple response back (this goes back to the whole not wanting to change or adapt). Not saying anyone had to sell me some of the company (although it would be cool to be able to let employees eventually get some sort of equity and keep it in the hands of skateboarders), it could have been a loan for all I care as money doesn't mean much to me when I'm doing what I thoroughly love. I fully respect someone not wanting to open that door but to tell me we don't have the money for this and that and I am the only one trying to come up with other solutions even by putting my own money down, it just seems like these guys have too much of an ego to accept any help which at the end of the day is totally fine but if someone doesn't want to be helped then unfortunately there's not much you can do about it. Secondly, these brands have treated the ones who gave everything they had into it such as team managers, filmers, riders and just were never truly appreciated in my opinion. Even in my own personal experience, it's not entirely our fault the brands have lost millions year after year when the issues trickle down from the top and change is so negatively perceived. It doesn't matter who is in the TM or Brand Manager or shoe designer role if there's problems coming from above. That's why there has been so much employee turnaround the last 10 years and we all know the owner/executives aren't going to fire themselves so they use anyone else below as the scapegoat to save themselves and then repeat as things don't improve. So to the OP, I don't want any skater owned brand closing it's doors but if they do, it's because of their own poor decisions and actions that lead them there.

[devils acrobat]

Im not gonna do what everyone thinks im gonna do, and flip out, man.

Flipping in looks better 95.72% of the time anyway

[Ignatius J Reilly]

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I love the design and feel of many eS shoes.

But what's up with the blatant outspoken transphobia I've seen on social media from some of the folks working behind the scenes at Sole Tech? In 2024? How old are these guys? And how come this isn't being addressed?

[close]

I’ve never heard about any of that but please post any links or screenshots. Put that shit on blast and I’ll pass it on

[close]

For instance, as I understand it, this Leighton Dyer fellow is some kind of NZ-based "Global Art Director" at Sole Tech (and one of the co-founders of Muckmouth).

don brown's usually in the comments section of every transphobic meme you can find on IG, bet you a nollie tre flip over a hydrant he follows piss skate or some other right wing skater meme page

[Can he read]

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I love the design and feel of many eS shoes.

But what's up with the blatant outspoken transphobia I've seen on social media from some of the folks working behind the scenes at Sole Tech? In 2024? How old are these guys? And how come this isn't being addressed?

[close]

I’ve never heard about any of that but please post any links or screenshots. Put that shit on blast and I’ll pass it on

[close]

For instance, as I understand it, this Leighton Dyer fellow is some kind of NZ-based "Global Art Director" at Sole Tech (and one of the co-founders of Muckmouth).

[close]

don brown's usually in the comments section of every transphobic meme you can find on IG, bet you a nollie tre flip over a hydrant he follows piss skate or some other right wing skater meme page

I’ve unfollowed just about every skate meme page because for some reason they all seem to be on some weird right wing shit. Haven’t caught don brown in any comments but how is this not been put on blast yet? I’m still unclear what muckmouth even is, I follow though and thought it was just one dude so maybe I need to unfollow if their founder is a bigot.

[KDP]

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That's not entirely true. They are direct in several countries outside of the US.

Also, overheads for footwear are so much more expensive than hard goods. And then there is staff. And a place to work from.

If you are a small company, an office, employed staff and all the expenses which come with that just are so financially unviable. A distributor would be the only way to go.

Also, also...Russia. Even if a brand was direct - there are embargos in place. Or were. I believe they still are.
Ain't no one riding for a brand direct or otherwise when you simply cannot ship there with the current war going on.

[close]

1. Embargo. Yes, this is why I mentioned a decade ago. Not present day.
2. Overhead higher, ok, profit is immensely higher as well. This is not a valid excuse for SoleTech.
3. Sole Tech is a small company. No. I'm not buying this with SoleTech. They were one of the biggest companies in skateboarding and, like DC had money to use to improve/manage their international distribution model. DC, Nike, Vans, etc. all sold directly to the Russian market. Sole Tech could have easily hired a local to manage distribution.
The only out I will give them was with the intense corruption of the Russian market/need for bribes, it might have been too much for them to handle. But this isn't an excuse for all other international markets.


And, what countries does SoleTech manage their distribution to? I'm 90% sure that they don't even manage their Canadian distribution, unless they got to the point where their sales are so low the distribution dropped them.

Your argument that the local distribution model is cheaper only furthers my point that SoleTech's cheapness, laziness, and short-sighted vision plays a role in their downfall.

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...and DLX is entirely distributor model outside of North America.

[close]

This does not change the fact that SoleTech's support for the American skate scenes is much weaker than DLX. The point is very much, DLX with immensely lower profit margins makes a far more visible impact on the local skate scenes in America.

Sole Tech tried to float on the hollow image of "skater owned," without the skater owned company attribute that encourages them to place the scene above profit in some cases. Something, Sole Tech wasn't doing nearly as often as they needed to be: https://www.skateboarding.com/news/skateboarding-though-corporate-america-we-are-inefficient-and-proud

I don't think you understand costs of business.

I got offered a role at Converse in Europe about ten years ago. Turnover was next-level. And whilst going through their business, we discussed territories and even they operated through agencies rather than direct in every territory. In fact, IIRC there were very few direct territories. UK, France, Benelux and a couple of others. The majority was agencies.

...and granted, an agency is a step above a distributor but the point is that even a brand you'd deem as large as Converse operated in this same manner.

On DLX - during that time period you are harking back to (2004 to 2014), their support of non-American skater scenes was generally pish. They flowed a few people...thats it.
Pfanner was the first European to have a pro board on a DLX brand, I think. AH followed with some more.
2021...Harry Lintell - first European pro on Real ever.
2023...was Tom Knox the first Euro pro on Krooked? I feel like I am missing someone there.

DLX are the fucking shit. Love 'em and they have been kind enough to support me with product here and there, too - and they definitely have done and continue to do great things...but no one has a clean history. No one.You can throw size or profit margins or whatever else you like at it. But that isn't the whole story. The simplification you are working on isn't how the real world works.

What is with the link to a 20 year old article at the end there? A lot has changed since then. I don't understand the relevancy.

[Pooh Drunx]

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Im not gonna do what everyone thinks im gonna do, and flip out, man.

[close]

Flipping in looks better 95.72% of the time anyway

Flip in is better 99.99% of the time. (Dylans tailslide kickflip in GRAVIS vid being the .01%)

and i hope you got the movie reference... everyone was goin in on me for an almost identical topic last week.

[TheLurper]

I don't think you understand costs of business.

I got offered a role at Converse in Europe about ten years ago. Turnover was next-level. And whilst going through their business, we discussed territories and even they operated through agencies rather than direct in every territory. In fact, IIRC there were very few direct territories. UK, France, Benelux and a couple of others. The majority was agencies.

...and granted, an agency is a step above a distributor but the point is that even a brand you'd deem as large as Converse operated in this same manner.

On DLX - during that time period you are harking back to (2004 to 2014), their support of non-American skater scenes was generally pish. They flowed a few people...thats it.
Pfanner was the first European to have a pro board on a DLX brand, I think. AH followed with some more.
2021...Harry Lintell - first European pro on Real ever.
2023...was Tom Knox the first Euro pro on Krooked? I feel like I am missing someone there.

DLX are the fucking shit. Love 'em and they have been kind enough to support me with product here and there, too - and they definitely have done and continue to do great things...but no one has a clean history. No one.You can throw size or profit margins or whatever else you like at it. But that isn't the whole story. The simplification you are working on isn't how the real world works.

What is with the link to a 20 year old article at the end there? A lot has changed since then. I don't understand the relevancy.

I love the ad hominen.

Me: "DC, Vans, Nike, and so on directly interacted with the Russian market [by-passing the distributors and all the problems associated with distribution companies"
You Response A: "You don't understand cost of business (despite seeing others do their jobs correctly and you pretending the distribution company doesn't cost money to run and increase costs for the consumer).

I love the Converse example too:
Me: Me: "DC, Vans, Nike, and so on directly interacted with the Russian market [by-passing the distributors and all the problems associated with distribution companies"
You: Converse doesn't directly interact with all markets, but they did interact with some markets directly.

Ok, this doesn't undo my point either. You're saying they still interacted directly with some markets. I imagine when making this decision to be lazy or to directly do so it is based on population, avg income of the potential customers, cultural prominence (i.e. the Russian market is not only its own cultural world, but prior to the war, strongly influenced other Russian speaking countries culture and trends), and a host of other variables.

My example of SoleTech ignoring Russia a country with 140 million people that had cultural influence over many of its neighbors is not Estonia with a population of less than 1.5 million or what tiny Euro nation we want to reference. The Russian skate scene was pretty amazing 2012 and SoleTech had no idea what was going on and no understanding of the entire Eastern European/Eur-Asian region.


Me: DLX has visible support of the American local scenes.
You: DLX in Europe.

Ok.

SoleTech failed on multiple fronts. They failed internationally and they failed their American consumers as well. It was a company that was "skater owned" but didn't operate as a skater owned company should. They lived on their legacy, they didn't interact with their American customers, they didn't understand their American customers, and they did the same thing abroad, despite being one of the wealthiest skate companies of the early 2000s. They had every opportunity to do more, but they didn't.

They sold price point trash, they had their own infighting within the company, they didn't support local scenes in America the way DLX does, and they didn't support international scenes the way Nike, Vans, and DC did.

Sole Tech faced problems when Nike started eating their lunch, but Nike was only able to each their lunch cause they weren't even paying attention.


Finally, I'm sorry you don't understand the relevancy of the characteristics of a skater owned company and what the scene expects them to do. These are broad and general characteristics and expectations within the culture, not something that goes out of fashion. Do you think there is no meaning in anything written before 2020? Should we throw away all social science and history because it is too old? All the insights on consumer behaviors or social-pychology developed in 1920, 1950, 1980, and 2000 should be thrown away?

[KDP]

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I don't think you understand costs of business.

I got offered a role at Converse in Europe about ten years ago. Turnover was next-level. And whilst going through their business, we discussed territories and even they operated through agencies rather than direct in every territory. In fact, IIRC there were very few direct territories. UK, France, Benelux and a couple of others. The majority was agencies.

...and granted, an agency is a step above a distributor but the point is that even a brand you'd deem as large as Converse operated in this same manner.

On DLX - during that time period you are harking back to (2004 to 2014), their support of non-American skater scenes was generally pish. They flowed a few people...thats it.
Pfanner was the first European to have a pro board on a DLX brand, I think. AH followed with some more.
2021...Harry Lintell - first European pro on Real ever.
2023...was Tom Knox the first Euro pro on Krooked? I feel like I am missing someone there.

DLX are the fucking shit. Love 'em and they have been kind enough to support me with product here and there, too - and they definitely have done and continue to do great things...but no one has a clean history. No one.You can throw size or profit margins or whatever else you like at it. But that isn't the whole story. The simplification you are working on isn't how the real world works.

What is with the link to a 20 year old article at the end there? A lot has changed since then. I don't understand the relevancy.

[close]

I love the ad hominen.

Me: "DC, Vans, Nike, and so on directly interacted with the Russian market [by-passing the distributors and all the problems associated with distribution companies"
You Response A: "You don't understand cost of business (despite seeing others do their jobs correctly and you pretending the distribution company doesn't cost money to run and increase costs for the consumer).

I love the Converse example too:
Me: Me: "DC, Vans, Nike, and so on directly interacted with the Russian market [by-passing the distributors and all the problems associated with distribution companies"
You: Converse doesn't directly interact with all markets, but they did interact with some markets directly.

Ok, this doesn't undo my point either. You're saying they still interacted directly with some markets. I imagine when making this decision to be lazy or to directly do so it is based on population, avg income of the potential customers, cultural prominence (i.e. the Russian market is not only its own cultural world, but prior to the war, strongly influenced other Russian speaking countries culture and trends), and a host of other variables.

My example of SoleTech ignoring Russia a country with 140 million people that had cultural influence over many of its neighbors is not Estonia with a population of less than 1.5 million or what tiny Euro nation we want to reference. The Russian skate scene was pretty amazing 2012 and SoleTech had no idea what was going on and no understanding of the entire Eastern European/Eur-Asian region.


Me: DLX has visible support of the American local scenes.
You: DLX in Europe.

Ok.

SoleTech failed on multiple fronts. They failed internationally and they failed their American consumers as well. It was a company that was "skater owned" but didn't operate as a skater owned company should. They lived on their legacy, they didn't interact with their American customers, they didn't understand their American customers, and they did the same thing abroad, despite being one of the wealthiest skate companies of the early 2000s. They had every opportunity to do more, but they didn't.

They sold price point trash, they had their own infighting within the company, they didn't support local scenes in America the way DLX does, and they didn't support international scenes the way Nike, Vans, and DC did.

Sole Tech faced problems when Nike started eating their lunch, but Nike was only able to each their lunch cause they weren't even paying attention.


Finally, I'm sorry you don't understand the relevancy of the characteristics of a skater owned company and what the scene expects them to do. These are broad and general characteristics and expectations within the culture, not something that goes out of fashion. Do you think there is no meaning in anything written before 2020? Should we throw away all social science and history because it is too old? All the insights on consumer behaviors or social-pychology developed in 1920, 1950, 1980, and 2000 should be thrown away?

Ok. You are really coming at me like I'm some kid who needs educating and that is never going to work.

Yeah, my post called you out on stuff. But there was reasoning behind it. It wasn't putting you down personally.

Comparing DLX to Soletech was off because as I demonstrated; both brands have holes in their history.
etnies used to run those EuroCup contests but you overlook that. Those contests were my first reasons to travel and obviously by name you can tell it was non-American in the execution.
eS had possibly the first global team outside of Flip in the Menikmati era.

Your comments just seem to be really oversimplified taking into account points which confirm arguments and ignoring those which don't.
Converse weren't direct in all markets because it was no financially viable to operate in that way. Much like Sole Tech. Or DLX. Or a shit ton of brands.
Correct me if I am wrong, but are you saying that all skater owned brands should operate directly regardless of whether they can afford to?
With the greatest of respect, I feel like the direct/distributor thing is being blamed for something which happened in your scene, but it is an over simplification.

My old employer sold fairly well in Russia. 140m people sure. And snow. Yay. We sold snowboard outerwear. But its not like there are 140 million people buying it. A couple of thousand a year. That was it.

The skate stuff was a struggle, but we sold a bit. The snow stuff kept the skate flow crew going there...Without that, there would have been no skate team flow. It's 140 million people but the UK population was lest than half of that and did more then five times the turnover. It operated back then under EU laws, so rollout of business structure was simple copy and paste  from existing models with lots of EU support...which is quite different from operating in Russia.

Population doesn't mean much if business or culture don't enable western brands to do well. See also: China.

You are right on bribes...We even tried running an event there. Shipped all of our shit and then got told it's 10,000 euros for an event licence. Obviously some sketchy bribe, but it meant we cancelled the event and got refunds for our flights. We lost thousands of euros of event kit we shipped in the process.
That loss would cripple some businesses so they just don't take the risk.

And this is what I mean about the understanding of business. Granted, my understanding is limited. But I have some experience there and am just trying to share it with you so you can maybe see a different picture.

[DarkPools]

It's kinda laughable how a few questionable models (design and quality) from Soletech because they experimented (we don't see the big brands experimenting nearly as much) has jaded so many of you into holding a wrong opinion that ALL Soletech shoes are trash.

Marana
Joslin
MC Rap
KSL G6
Figgy G6
Wino G6 Slip
Wini Slip Cup
Tom Penny 2
Silo SC
Quattro
Swift 1.5
Accel Slim Plus
Muska
Creager

All of these are far from hideous in design and are on par with quality or skirt close to it from the big brands. If y'all wanna shit on Soletech for calling then trash, I'll correct and call you out each time on here, because it's simply not true. Some exceptions exist with bad models/bad runs, etc. Same applies to big brands. QC from Soletech is solid when it comes to OKing shoes to shop shelves.

If you shit on it because you don't like their designs (not your preference) and are uninspired by their marketing/sponsor/art direction of the brand, I can support that. That's valid.

I say this because many of these people critical of Soletech are hypocrites when it comes to non Soletech brands they're not fond of. They don't keep that same standard/energy when it's other brands.

[thehogsniper]

Everyday is DarkPools discusses Soletech day!

[DarkPools]

Everyday is DarkPools discusses Soletech day!

So be it, if there are threads on here discussing it and I feel compelled to post.

Perhaps I do talk too much about it, but whatever I'm unapologetic with who/what I love/enjoy in this life

[Mongo Lloyd]

Some of these posts are larger than the Mahabharata.

[Yonnycage]

I'm down. Let's also replace it with 3 more worthless d-tier boutique brands that charge 80$ a pair

[thehogsniper]

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Everyday is DarkPools discusses Soletech day!

[close]

So be it, if there are threads on here discussing it and I feel compelled to post.

Perhaps I do talk too much about it, but whatever I'm unapologetic with who/what I love/enjoy in this life

I get that, but this is the way the industry works. Companies fuck up, people complain, products get sold or don't. It's not some personal thing. No need to an emotional stake in companies.

[c-dock]

Unfortunately no "Fred Gall" option in the poll

And nah I don't wanna see them go away, they just need to shift their focus

Stop relying on 90's nostalgia with eS, drop the green filter rail chomping stoner rock shtick with Emerica, and as for Etnies just listen to Ben De Gros

[bartlaser]

Maybe soletech needs a sugar daddy.

Or find kore buyers for each brand.  Sell 'es to The Muska.  Sell Emerica to Ellington.  Sell etnies to Shecks.

Turn it into a co-op and sell exclusively at farmers markets.

[WashingtonNECKTIE]

Maybe soletech needs a sugar daddy.

Or find kore buyers for each brand.  Sell 'es to The Muska.  Sell Emerica to Ellington.  Sell etnies to Shecks.

Turn it into a co-op and sell exclusively at farmers markets.

or travelling skate-shoe salesmen?

[Haze]

Soletech, I got you right here, look:

Dead emerica and introduce,

Kik~Flippy’s®️!

an && company

[JM]

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I don't know how to feel about soletech yanno. I like them but I also wish they'd get their shit together or liquidate already.
To preface, I have no nostalgia for the brands like a lot of people because I'm 20. I dunno where to start with my shitty essay so here goes.

Soletech need to get a grip or die already. I don't want em to die but it's fucking annoying. They don't know who they're marketing to anymore, aside from eS who have cornered the "30 to 55 year olds with cash to blow on expensive reissues for the hell of it".

Nowadays they fucking leech off their history and the "skater owned" status. When was the last time Pierre Andre got on a skateboard or Don Brown did something other than damage the brand? Jerry Hsu put it perfectly in his recent interview (can't remember which mag), it's a marketing term. They have business ghouls running the show, the types that do the Angela Merkel thing with their hands and talk about "synergy" and "solutions" and other buzzwords from that adult swim For-Profit Online University sketch. Nike and Adidas have more skaters running the show in their skate division than Soletech. New Balance Numeric have more claim to being skater-owned than fucking Soletech.
And with "skater owned" there's this certain aire to it, an expectation that "skater owned" means they support skaters- support their riders and support their community. Soletech doesn't do shit! They haven't for years! Everything they do for the "skate community" literally exists exclusively in California and even then in like the suburbs of Orange County, unless it's Go Skate day where they'll drop like a garish lookin shoe. I've been to many events in my city recently- the Adidas bench demos outside shops and like jams at the DIY in the summer. You know who's fucking put money towards that? Adidas, Nike, New Balance. Fucking hell at the DIY jam, Nike gave out like limited edition dunks to be raffled off to support the DIY. I think Dunks and the people who wear them are fucking lame as hell but the way they support shops with that shit is like a net positive. I think it creates imbalance in cities with multiple shops, but generally I think it's alright. You can call it leeching but who's actually putting the money in to help fund and cultivate these events. I imagine soletech TMs try to look after the skaters, I know EmericaTM/SlapTM tried hard but was over-worked, spread too thin and just generally fucked around by higher powers. Upper management doesn't give a shit. I don't expect Nike/Adidas upper management to give a shit either but they don't have to think about it- maybe because they're so massive they can just have a section of the company in skateboarding.

Last Resort is a legit skater owned and operated brand with less money, manpower and infestructure as Soletech, Nike, Adidas, New Balance, DC, but people bought that shit up and still love the shoes. I thought they were kinda shit but they're dedicated to actually giving back to skateboarding.

Personally the shoes from soletech fit me perfectly, I've got size 12 stompers, they have a wide fit and are generally very comfortable and skate fantastically stock. My favourite models are the Kingpin, Marana, Joslin, Accel OG & Slim, Silo, Omen and Spanky. Never had a bad experience with them. However, those are probably the least fucked looking Soletech shoes you can find, and "least fucked" is pushing it with the Accel OG's inflated ass (they fit my big feet fine but they look goofy on smaller feet). The tech in soletech is legit, Joslin/Marana is a mega shoe. But it's just all fucked because of bad colourways and rapidly inflating prices.

If corporate monopolies like Nike, Adidas, VF CORP aren't your friends, why the fuck is soletech? They're money grubbing ghouls as well, that's what they're all after.

Said this in the Skecks of Etnies thread, but lemme run Soletech. Select 7 slap members to become the Soletech 7 and shut down like the fucking 5 companies under the brand all fighting for scraps of money, bring it all in, unionize every worker at every level of production, do shit for skating instead of leeching. Get it all going.

[close]

A lot of good stuff in here. The thing is that there's just too many flaws at Sole Tech. For starters, you've got the older guys who are just out of touch. They're not in the van or hitting the streets with the youth anymore so they're out of touch versus guys like Dill/Reynolds, etc who are around the kids and seeing what's relevant and trending. Also, a lot of success from businesses comes from them paying the correct people to run the business and/or departments. When you've got an owner putting their input and worrying about day to day operations when they should be using their time to take on much more important tasks. Most of these brands peaked and blossomed when the control and power were given to the employees who were hired to do so.

From my personal experience throughout the years I’ve witness many brands lacking the will to change. During my days at Sole Tech, for years I tried to make changes and be creative with new ways of operations. The thing is with an older crowd, they're not too interested on trying to taking different or new approaches especially when it comes from someone almost half their age. What may have worked 20 years doesn't mean it will work today and adaptation is crucial to any brands survival. I can't even tell you how many times I tried to get everybody to sit down and have some hard but realistic in-depth conversations on what's working, what isn't and basically start from scratch with a new workflow. Five years there and no conversation was had. Same thing post-COVID when the signs of another recession was coming, I reached out numerous times to put a plan together to and discuss how to enter a recession as a business and no one wanted to talk about it. Even at the end, I was digging into the sales numbers and spent my holiday visiting family but in reality worked and spent the entire time putting together a plan to improve business on the sales side and then requested to meet to go over said plan to create a strategy and no response. Truth be told every time I would ask questions regarding any sort of sales data (just to find out what's working and what isn't when I'm being asked to come up with new strategies) sales employees would get extremely defensive and not want to answer any sort of questions or give numbers or want to discuss even when coming from a place to help versus a finger pointing situation. There were times we’d get sales results/data and rather than getting everyone to figure out how to improve, it was basically "okay see ya next season". Truth is that nobody wants to be held accountable to do the work. I've even told everybody myself that the brands and products are not trendy or "cool" and the second we admit that to ourselves and use that knowledge that to then create a strategy to make the brands more on trend. Unfortunately, when everyone refuses to realize that and continue to think they've created the best product in the world almost to the point where it seems the consumers are lucky to be able to buy their product, you're sort of already blowing it.

Lastly, the lack of strategy is probably these type of brand's weakest link. From heavily discounting shoes on their website to even on the marketing side, they have always chosen to cut corners. Sure, when these brands were all doing 8 figures annually a few decades ago, just a few percent being allocated to marketing was still in the million + dollar range. Fast forward 20 years and a few percent now means basically nothing for the entire marketing from team riders, tours, advertising, video projects, filmers/photographers, etc. No brand can survive this day and age with such little support for marketing when in skating, your marketing is just about everything. Of course designs and product play a heavy factor too but marketing is everything. Maybe too personal but I've always been very straight up and transparent with everyone on this board and I got tired of having to cut things every year and letting friends go. I was over it and I realized when you just keep cutting and cutting, you're just digging yourself into a much deeper hole that's going to be a lot harder to get out of. Anyways, we weren't given enough budget to even have a fighting chance so yeah for the last several years I offered to invest my own money into the brand to give us a chance to do the things a brand needs to do to not only stay afloat but also have a decent change on growing the brand. Year after year, budget after budget, I couldn't even get a simple response back (this goes back to the whole not wanting to change or adapt). Not saying anyone had to sell me some of the company (although it would be cool to be able to let employees eventually get some sort of equity and keep it in the hands of skateboarders), it could have been a loan for all I care as money doesn't mean much to me when I'm doing what I thoroughly love. I fully respect someone not wanting to open that door but to tell me we don't have the money for this and that and I am the only one trying to come up with other solutions even by putting my own money down, it just seems like these guys have too much of an ego to accept any help which at the end of the day is totally fine but if someone doesn't want to be helped then unfortunately there's not much you can do about it. Secondly, these brands have treated the ones who gave everything they had into it such as team managers, filmers, riders and just were never truly appreciated in my opinion. Even in my own personal experience, it's not entirely our fault the brands have lost millions year after year when the issues trickle down from the top and change is so negatively perceived. It doesn't matter who is in the TM or Brand Manager or shoe designer role if there's problems coming from above. That's why there has been so much employee turnaround the last 10 years and we all know the owner/executives aren't going to fire themselves so they use anyone else below as the scapegoat to save themselves and then repeat as things don't improve. So to the OP, I don't want any skater owned brand closing it's doors but if they do, it's because of their own poor decisions and actions that lead them there.

OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG you’re back!

And you changed your name! You earned it happy you changed it! It looks good on yah.

Now I have to read this long ass response

[Pooh Drunx]

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Unfortunately no "Fred Gall" option in the poll

[close]

And nah I don't wanna see them go away, they just need to shift their focus

Stop relying on 90's nostalgia with eS, drop the green filter rail chomping stoner rock shtick with Emerica, and as for Etnies just listen to Ben De Gros

What should they do? make basketball shoes and soccer shoes? Nikes most sucessful shoe in skating (janoski) resembles an emerica/vans more than anything.

all of soletech is basically staying in their lane and doing the shit they are supposed to be doing. Surely people have been asking for the muskas reissue since fulfill the dream. eS is supposed to stop making accels because..... they remind you of the 90s....

What about nike dunks or blazers or cortez? what about vans eras and old skools?

what about any adidas (they literally are all the exact same shoe every time)

i dont see how emerica making wino slips and eS making accels is any different. If anything, nike making a janoski was them trying to find a way to make a product that extremely jaded and picky skatrers would like so they mocked it off vans/emericas.....

Again, dont understand why everyone wants to dislike soletech for just making skate shoes for skaters. but Nike has been making dunks since 1985 and just adding a colorway every now and again and everyone comps outside of Black Sheep or No Comply for a day to get them... They are literally basketball shoes......

Its weird and i just dont get it...