Changes under Trump 2.0

[Alan]

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I thought "stand back and stand by" was bad enough... the scariest part is that it is only day 1. If you read/watched his "Agenda 47," he's talking about internment camps for the homeless, "re-education" of people in higher education, and all sorts of other ill shit.

I know it is cliche to bring up 1984, but....

[close]

I'm a VA Federal psychologist and I woke up to an 8:00am meeting about all of our continuing education changing and not being able to use the language "DEI" in any of our meetings or trainings.

I also work for a state university. They were coming down hard on critical race theory during the last administration, but so far it's just threats.

[close]

I wonder if his executive order against DEI would affect state agencies. Since affirmative action ended years ago in California (except for disability or veteran status in government jobs), I don't know if this would even make any difference. He does want to target disabled people, though.

[close]

My understanding is states can still do whatever they want. There have been threats of withholding NIH funding, but there's just no way any federal agency is going to be able to enforce what is done at the campus level. I can see courses being re-named and some silly symbolic stuff, but that's all I've heard from the university. I remember 4 years of idle threats from 2016-2020, but nothing ever happened.

[close]

A lot of states and universities have already rolled over this past year or so.

https://www.highereddive.com/news/dei-eliminations-cuts-offices-colleges-texas-florida-kentucky-alabama/727414/

[close]

My university is in deep blue territory, so I think they'll find workarounds.

I've been in back-to-back meetings at my federal position all day and they're taking a hard line on this. We are required to stop all groups, mental health service, trainings, committees, advocacy, etc for anything remotely related to DEI. We had workarounds in 2016-2020, but they're coming down hard on any resistance.

Fingers crossed for you!

[EdLawndale]

Yeah, I think this a very different situation than 2016-2020 in terms of intent and follow-through by the regime in charge.

Very saddened we've found ourselves in this place, however we got here.

If we're lucky, we'll see similar in-fighting amongst Trump and his cabinet like the last term, ppl getting fired and talking shit in the media, etc. -- which would be good because it's a sign the administration is not getting enough momentum to move their agenda forward -- but it's not guaranteed.

I fear, this time, Trump is going to take a backseat, per se, and let the awful ppl he has appointed and will appoint (who will likely be as bad as him or worse) take the wheel.  Project 2025 and so forth. He has won the election, that's all he really needed to do...

[GnarAlarm]

A while back, i threw out a question along the lines of “other than vote, what do you do in support of your community, human rights, social justice, etc” and but a few people, including those who get on the high horse about voting or not voting for Harris, declined to share their experiences or vision regarding the exercise of such outside the voting booth.

Well, I'll field this as a "please vote Harris" person.
I always vote in every federal and local election no matter how small. 
I attend basically every protest or march in my city that aligns with my beliefs, and the occasional counter-protest (which, debatable how much difference those make but I get out of the house and do it).
A big personal one for me is every time there's a local election I read up on every judge up for election/re-election and blast everyone I know via text or email which judges are scumbags and which are worth re-electing. Same with Sheriff.
Shocking how many people leave those blank or pick randomly.
Most recently I volunteered for the Wick Thomas campaign in my district, Missouri's first transgender state legislator.
(They won!)
I've also attended several town halls and engagement events related to new skate parks in my city...

Having said all that, I don't condemn anyone who is less politically active.
To me, getting out and voting is the most important thing, nobody has to agree with me and I know many don't.
Any wars or genocides happening right now definitely aren't going to get any better with Trump in office, but a whole lot of other things are going to get a whole, whole, whole lot worse, probably including the wars and genocides.
If that was worth it for some people, that's their call and here we are. It wasn't worth it to me.

[S.]

@hooman I don't actually fall into one of the categories you described, but I did not vote, because I do not make a practice of voting. Not saying I never will, but I never have. It isn't a protest, and it isn't out of apathy, and it isn't because I don't believe that some candidates are objectively better or worse than others. I follow politics and don't shy away from taking positions, voicing support or opposition. I feel strongly that politics are always the reflection of localized views and attitudes, regardless of their eventual reach or scope. As such, the energy I put into what could be called civic duty or public engagement is expended locally, through participation in communities I believe in, and through trying to live in a way that reflects my values as directly as possible.  I've been called naive and worse, but to me it's naive to see people pulling their hair out and still getting up everyday and contributing wholeheartedly to a system that can be lead by a Donald Trump. I don't see him as an aberration of the system, he's just a much clearer reminder than usual that our society is founded on principles of control, not ethics. A lot of people do work within the system in an ethical way, and I respect that, but they aren't the guiding principle and never will be.  I don't really do that much for other people, lots of people I have met do more, but I feel pretty okay about my general disposition towards my fellow humans and wouldn't feel any better in that regard if I participated in the electoral process. Nor do I believe that my participating in it would improve my quality of life or anyone else's to the extent that volunteering and living frugally do. Voting is a luxury, so is having all your material needs met and still  feeling that life is really bad, and I don't subscribe to either of these thing. Sorry for the ramble, felt like responding.

I figure the day someone I know asks me to vote for them, is the day I will vote. Till then, I'm not investing my political energy in the idea of delegated, corporate or administrative responsability.

I understand and I share all your ideas but one. Being a decent person and involved in your community is way more important than one individual vote. I agree. But why not also vote? How do you see a contradiction between voting and being locally active is beyond me. Plus: You don’t just vote for a person, but also for a party platform. Why not consider the policies and vote for what seems more reasonable to you?

[Mr. Kamikazi]

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A while back, i threw out a question along the lines of “other than vote, what do you do in support of your community, human rights, social justice, etc” and but a few people, including those who get on the high horse about voting or not voting for Harris, declined to share their experiences or vision regarding the exercise of such outside the voting booth.

[close]

Well, I'll field this as a "please vote Harris" person.
I always vote in every federal and local election no matter how small. 
I attend basically every protest or march in my city that aligns with my beliefs, and the occasional counter-protest (which, debatable how much difference those make but I get out of the house and do it).
A big personal one for me is every time there's a local election I read up on every judge up for election/re-election and blast everyone I know via text or email which judges are scumbags and which are worth re-electing. Same with Sheriff.
Shocking how many people leave those blank or pick randomly.
Most recently I volunteered for the Wick Thomas campaign in my district, Missouri's first transgender state legislator.
(They won!)
I've also attended several town halls and engagement events related to new skate parks in my city...

Having said all that, I don't condemn anyone who is less politically active.
To me, getting out and voting is the most important thing, nobody has to agree with me and I know many don't.
Any wars or genocides happening right now definitely aren't going to get any better with Trump in office, but a whole lot of other things are going to get a whole, whole, whole lot worse, probably including the wars and genocides.
If that was worth it for some people, that's their call and here we are. It wasn't worth it to me.

I truly commend you.

My wife and myself are social workers, along with the majority of my colleagues and people I hold dear in my life. We definitely stay active and try to engage in politically proactive stances and get involved when we can.

It undoubtedly is going to get worse, and my heart breaks for the majority of my clients who are marginalized kiddos, many of which belong to the LBGQT+ population & families that already have the odds stacked against them. More so, even those that come to see me who are stable in many areas of their life, but battle mental health will probably be affected by this. Simply put, continuing to voice the truth and stand up for those in any shape or form, no matter how small will always ties detriment and hatred to be halted, all of which I think is a win. A small win, nonetheless, but important.

Tomorrow at my school, a Trump supporter & staunch election denier who is currently a state representative will be in the building. I plan on being respectful, but absolutely refusing to engage with this individual and giving them any of my time. I also plan on letting those around me know this man’s views so they can be presented with an opportunity to make an informed choice. It’s really frightening, especially because our campus specifically works with anyone identifying as non-binary due to our diverse policies and just our skill set. I do not say that in any light to make us look like we are the reason they are successful, but I truly can say that we try to be a safe harbor for these kiddos.


Regardless, let’s all keep up the good fight and no matter how small, let people know they need to fix their hearts.

[TheLurper]

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"I just called the mother of Ross William Ulbricht to let her know that in honor of her and the Libertarian Movement, which supported me so strongly, it was my pleasure to have just signed a full and unconditional pardon of her son, Ross."
https://www.npr.org/2025/01/21/nx-s1-5270051/trump-pardons-dark-web-marketplace-creator-ross-ulbricht

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But isn’t that dude some kind of hero in the crypto, libertarian world? In the regards it makes sense he pardons him.

Pardons are fundamentally at odds with how our country is supposed to be run and were a weird thing for the founders to give presidents, but we can make a case for them when they are done as societal perceptions of crime changes or when people are victims of injustice, but pardons for votes crosses an obviously line. "If everyone in a militia votes for me, I'll pardon Tim McVeigh for OKCity Bombing" is obviously wrong and anti-American. We have laws against buying votes and this seems very similar.

On top of going to city council meetings and meeting with city employees on occasion, I'll donate to a few causes I care about, and I read legitimate news sources and filter that through all the books I had to read to collect my silly degrees. But, voting remains important to me, because 1) it plays a small part in deciding who is in charge 2) who is in charge can affect me dramatically. Returning to the days where only a few people had a voice in society does not strike me as a step forward.

@Cuban_Lynx I'm sorry you and the people you work with have to deal with this nonsense. It is amazing how much vitriol the GOP has for women and trans people. I'm pretty certain trans individuals make up .4% of population, it seems that the fear and hatred is overblown. Also, I'm curious to see how everyone in your institution with write emails without the use of any pronouns.

[Plan9Customs]

A while back, i threw out a question along the lines of “other than vote, what do you do in support of your community, human rights, social justice, etc” and but a few people, including those who get on the high horse about voting or not voting for Harris, declined to share their experiences or vision regarding the exercise of such outside the voting booth.

As a go vote advocate, I despise Harris based on the fact she was a prosecuting attorney. Despite that fact ,I voted for her based on the fact that if a Nazi enabler got into office again, you can’t realistically try to force change since you’re going to be fighting fascists/racists in the streets and administration and you won’t have time to try and change anything dealing with that constantly.
Marginalized groups of all cloths are going to be endangered and their blood will be spilled by the ones who have been emboldened by this ‘conservative’ movement.
 That is the simple fact why wouldn’t sit this out. Did I really feel my vote would make a difference or either party actually gave a shit about us? No. One just was willfully pushing a white nationalist revolution. I can’t in good conscience help that even by sitting it out.
Now, who’s going to buy Tik Tok and complete the social media brainwashing process? tRump? Musk? Bezos? Zuckerberg? Or will it be one of the white nationalist cronies? They proved it’s definitely an effective tool in steering the mindless herds.


I’ll just add articles if/when any are pertinent. Not political discussion.

[EdLawndale]

One should live his or her life as a decent person. But when a presidential election has the role of supposed leader of the free world potentially being handed of to an emerging dictatorship, you must vote for the lesser of the two evils. Period.

[Cuban_Lynx]

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"I just called the mother of Ross William Ulbricht to let her know that in honor of her and the Libertarian Movement, which supported me so strongly, it was my pleasure to have just signed a full and unconditional pardon of her son, Ross."
https://www.npr.org/2025/01/21/nx-s1-5270051/trump-pardons-dark-web-marketplace-creator-ross-ulbricht

[close]

But isn’t that dude some kind of hero in the crypto, libertarian world? In the regards it makes sense he pardons him.

[close]

@Cuban_Lynx I'm sorry you and the people you work with have to deal with this nonsense. It is amazing how much vitriol the GOP has for women and trans people. I'm pretty certain trans individuals make up .4% of population, it seems that the fear and hatred is overblown. Also, I'm curious to see how everyone in your institution with write emails without the use of any pronouns.

You just can’t have your preferred pronouns in Teams or your signature line anymore. Trans employees/veterans also have to go by their birth gender. What’s worse is we got an email from the new director saying we can face “adverse consequences” if we don’t rat out people for breaking this EO.

[h00man]

A while back, i threw out a question along the lines of “other than vote, what do you do in support of your community, human rights, social justice, etc” and but a few people, including those who get on the high horse about voting or not voting for Harris, declined to share their experiences or vision regarding the exercise of such outside the voting booth.

Can you explain how supporting my community will keep literal nazis out of the white house?

[botefdunn]

I feel bad writing so much, I feel like its irritating, but i want to specify a couple things. First, I have argued long and hard with any trumpeledytes, whenever I've had the opportunity, even today, trying to have a genuine conversation and maybe help people see the folly of supporting someone who is clearly bad for everyone. He is clearly a terrible person to work with or for, or have in a position of responsibility. Or have anything to do with, as far I can tell.
Secondly, if you are someone who votes, the only real choice seemed to be Harris (i don't know if there were lesser known candidates early on?) and I am not a crazy person suggesting she was anywhere near as harmful as trump. It made sense to me that people wanted her to win and voted for her.
@S. I don' see voting and community work as mutually exclusive at all. There are people who vote who also do way more than I do to be political in their communitiea and daily lives. As you said, you don't just vote for a person, but a party or platform, and that is in fact one of the reasons I'm not interested in participating in that process. As I mentioned, I could see myself voting for a person I know, but I believe party politics are fundamentally undemocratic. I believe in people working together to figure things out for the betterment of everyone involved, and I think that takes constant reassing and adjustment. Party politics is a system of coalitions that inevitably prioritizes beating the competition, rather than working together as a group, Essentially, it foments nationalism. There are lots of ways I choose the lesser of evils to make my life easier, but I try not to do this more than necessary, and I believe that there are better forms of organization that are only possible if you move away from the partisan, party system.

[The real veganshawn]

I've got a little extra money at the moment, and am considering getting a few decks in case this tariff thing explodes. Anyone else done this?

I have enough decks, wheels, trucks and shoes to kake it though a couple years

[The real veganshawn]

A while back, i threw out a question along the lines of “other than vote, what do you do in support of your community, human rights, social justice, etc” and but a few people, including those who get on the high horse about voting or not voting for Harris, declined to share their experiences or vision regarding the exercise of such outside the voting booth.

Best things you can do are food sharing, start a community garden, supply sharing etc... at this point voting is a moot point, my state (Ohio) is so rigged a progressive candidate can't win let alone a centrist.

[h00man]

what I'm trying to get at is that if you're voting D but not actively engaging in the social justice and community building actions that so-called liberal ideals are supposed to espouse, you're part of the problem.

okay so if I actively engage the social justice community, volunteer my time to help those in need, how does that keep Nazis out of the White House?

If you're not actively engaging to dismantle oppressive systems in your community and at large, you're more of part of the problem than people who didn't vote for Harris. You want to talk about Nazi's in the white house but make your good living from the same capitalist teat funding both sides of the government, you're definitely more of a part of the problem than someone who didn't vote Kamala. you wanna make a fat wage in tech or something AI adjacent, at this point, you might as well be in bed with them.

So basically you're saying we shouldn't vote at all because it's enabling oppressive systems?

there were users on this forum telling a Palestinian American to buck up and vote D after they explained conversations he and his wife had about watching children that could well have been theirs being blown to bits. that was one of the most repugnant, heart breaking, and out of touch things I've encountered on 20+ years of slap messageboarding.

Trump is removing sanctions on Israel?

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/donald-trump-israel-settlers-west-bank-sanctions-lifted-violence-rcna188503

I'm not even saying "fuck you" to anyone here. Yeah, fuck you to the Nazi's, for sure. Rather, wake up and smell the fucking coffee or maté or whatever you need to put in your gullet to get thinking because it's time to start reflecting on what got us here in the first place.

So.... you offered nothing as to how we can keep literal Nazis out of the White House....

You're basically saying no one should vote because it just keeps feeding the machine...?

Volunteering and engaging our local communities does not keep bad people out of power. Voting does. Does it suck? Yeah. Fuck our voting system. But you need to wake up and smell the coffee and realize that it's what we got and we have to deal with it.

I want to make it clear that I agree with everyone saying Harris was NOT the best choice. I also think Dems are idiots that cling on to power, just like Republicans. You CANNOT tell me, that Harris and Trump are two sides of the same coin. Only a fool would believe that.

[Too Frank To Fred]

So basically you're saying we shouldn't vote at all because it's enabling oppressive systems?

There's a good case for that. Voting just might inhibit real change.

The narrow choice. The inability to move beyond the two party system. To imagine a better socioeconomic arrangement. All are crushed by the illusion of the vote.

American 'democracy' is bit like Žižek said about Capitalism, "Its easier to envision the end of the world than the end of capitalism."

Personally, I won't judge either way. But if you do vote, do it with no illusion and don't just vote. I'd say a meaningful conversation with someone with different ideas/ identity to you is more worthwhile... but I'm a hippy who wears black...

[GnarAlarm]

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So basically you're saying we shouldn't vote at all because it's enabling oppressive systems?

[close]

There's a good case for that. Voting just might inhibit real change.

The narrow choice. The inability to move beyond the two party system. To imagine a better socioeconomic arrangement. All are crushed by the illusion of the vote.

The fascists will always make it to polls on election day.
It'd just turn into a one party system.

[Colin Robinson]

“Don’t vote” is the stupidest fucking response ever, fuck off

[Too Frank To Fred]

Well, we need to do more to eradicate that system of belief in the first place, find common ground across the working class (which there is a lot of) and offer alternatives. The real work is not done at the polls.

[Too Frank To Fred]

“Don’t vote” is the stupidest fucking response ever, fuck off

I prefer, "Don't just vote." But telling people who are disillusioned with the system to 'fuck off' is also rather.... stupid...

[GnarAlarm]

Well, we need to do more to eradicate that system of belief in the first place, find common ground across the working class (which there is a lot of) and offer alternatives. The real work is not done at the polls.

Whew, unifying the American working class would possibly be the most herculean feat in all of human history.
Half (maybe more than half) of the working class are rabidly anti-union, consistently vote to slash taxes for billionaires, and blame all their problems on sliiiiightly poorer working class people (and all minorities regardless of income).

[Atiba Applebum]

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Well, we need to do more to eradicate that system of belief in the first place, find common ground across the working class (which there is a lot of) and offer alternatives. The real work is not done at the polls.

[close]

Whew, unifying the American working class would possibly be the most herculean feat in all of human history.
Half (maybe more than half) of the working class are rabidly anti-union, consistently vote to slash taxes for billionaires, and blame all their problems on sliiiiightly poorer working class people (and all minorities regardless of income).

Democrats haven’t won the white vote since 1964.  Nothing significant about that date

[Too Frank To Fred]

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Well, we need to do more to eradicate that system of belief in the first place, find common ground across the working class (which there is a lot of) and offer alternatives. The real work is not done at the polls.

[close]

Whew, unifying the American working class would possibly be the most herculean feat in all of human history.
Half (maybe more than half) of the working class are rabidly anti-union, consistently vote to slash taxes for billionaires, and blame all their problems on sliiiiightly poorer working class people (and all minorities regardless of income).

Yep.

[EdLawndale]

Right. The facists know that an athelete can train and practice and condition all day, morning, noon and night (community outreach, etc.)...but if you don't show up for game time (voting), you lose. Plain and simple.

The impact of all that effort you put in extracurricularly, all that momentum you gained, it's all extremely diminished (and then some).  And that's what matters. It's tactics. You put in the ground work mainly so that people show up and vote; that's one of the primary end goals.

I like you, Too Frank To Fred, but that is an odd take. That's just like cutting of your nose to spite your face. A person basically not doing his or her part to prevent pretty much the worst people from coming and passing legislation that will affect in a negative manner the people of this country -- especially the already marginalized folks who spend their life fighting an uphill battle -- for years upon years to come.

A protest vote because of Kamala's stance on the Israel/Palestine conflict? Donald Trump and his cronies don't give a fuck about the ppl in Palestine.

At least if some nujob is gung-ho about stopping abortion, like that is their main goal in life, but they don't really agree with rest of the right-wing agenda, I can kind of understand that person voting Red because the current admisitration is doing all they can to outlaw abortion.

But it's painfully obvious that life for those in Palestine will be no better under Trump's watch.  I literally see convoys of cars around here in L.A. driving around simultaneously flying Trump and Israel flags. He does not give a fuck. He actively hates ppl who have brown skin. Why would someone who could vote against that, not vote against that?

[EdLawndale]

My personal opinion is that you should start incorporating the idea of looking at it as a showdown because these showdowns literally happen every 2 to 4 years.

And they decide who has the power to pass legislation.

They're demolishing things that we just take as givens. I just watched a video where Republicans are saying that, under Trump, they are going to pass legislation to get rid of U.S. birthright citizenship. That is insane and they can only do this because they won elections.

And, yes, I do blame anyone who has seen Donald Trump voice his disgusting opinions and desires, and then not actively vote against him.  That's just me.

[botefdunn]

@h00man you said


"
So basically you're saying we shouldn't vote at all because it's enabling oppressive systems?"

I know you werent responding direct to me, but wanted to say that personally, this is not my opinion. Actions people take in the name of equality and trying make things better for evwryone and not just themselves, I respect, and that includes voting, even if i dont do it. Diversity of tactics.

[skateordie]

While people are blaming theoretical protest non-voters, I haven't once heard anyone talk about the demographic shifts that occurred in this last election cycle. Here's a piece, it's NPR, but worth looking at

https://www.npr.org/2024/11/22/nx-s1-5199119/2024-election-exit-polls-demographics-black-latino-voters.

I'm not a statistician but the argument being presented, that this administration is the fault of those who may have, in other times voted D, but chose to cast no vote this round, may be disqualified by the numbers showing the D's failure to both maintain and gain voters, much of those being what some call "minority voters."

Why aren't y'all openly casting blame on black men, latinx, asian american, and arab american voters for leaving the Democratic party; for what some might say is "voting against their own/best interests"? What I'm seeing here on slap is that rather than being the fault of the party, the fucking capitalist class with a D on their name tags, who NEVER vote against their own IMMEDIATE interests, who have refused to run a popular candidate in 3 election cycles, the current administration is the fault of citizenry who may or may have not voted D because they felt disenfranchised and lied to.

@EdLawndale

We do such things because we're in it every single day, not because we're training for a big showdown. We do them because we are decent human beings who know that the support systems outside our control are designed to fail. We see these things not as "extracurricular," but as important aspects of our daily existence.

i asked these two hispanic dudes (young 20s) from harlem that i worked with at an old job about the word "latinx". they said the only ppl that say that are white kids from the suburbs and white-washed hispanic kids.

[h00man]

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Why aren't y'all openly casting blame on black men, latinx, asian american, and arab american voters for leaving the Democratic party; for what some might say is "voting against their own/best interests"?

[close]

You want us to single out minorities and POC's who voted Trump?

No.

[close]

you've already singled out arab americans who didn't vote for Kamala, what's the difference?

Excuse me? When did I say that?

if you're refering to this:

If you protest voted or sat out of this election year because "Harris is a war monger",


How does that single out Arab Americans? I didn't know only Arab Americans protest voted or sat out....

[Dwyck]

Remember, if you voted Trump, fuck you.

If you protest voted or sat out of this election year because "Harris is a war monger", fuck you even more.

Fuck. YOU.

this is a pigheaded, principle lacking take

[EdLawndale]

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While people are blaming theoretical protest non-voters, I haven't once heard anyone talk about the demographic shifts that occurred in this last election cycle. Here's a piece, it's NPR, but worth looking at

https://www.npr.org/2024/11/22/nx-s1-5199119/2024-election-exit-polls-demographics-black-latino-voters.

I'm not a statistician but the argument being presented, that this administration is the fault of those who may have, in other times voted D, but chose to cast no vote this round, may be disqualified by the numbers showing the D's failure to both maintain and gain voters, much of those being what some call "minority voters."

Why aren't y'all openly casting blame on black men, latinx, asian american, and arab american voters for leaving the Democratic party; for what some might say is "voting against their own/best interests"? What I'm seeing here on slap is that rather than being the fault of the party, the fucking capitalist class with a D on their name tags, who NEVER vote against their own IMMEDIATE interests, who have refused to run a popular candidate in 3 election cycles, the current administration is the fault of citizenry who may or may have not voted D because they felt disenfranchised and lied to.

@EdLawndale

We do such things because we're in it every single day, not because we're training for a big showdown. We do them because we are decent human beings who know that the support systems outside our control are designed to fail. We see these things not as "extracurricular," but as important aspects of our daily existence.

[close]

i asked these two hispanic dudes (young 20s) from harlem that i worked with at an old job about the word "latinx". they said the only ppl that say that are white kids from the suburbs and white-washed hispanic kids.

Cool story, bro.

...And?

What other life-changing pearls of wisdom did these world-weary twenty-something Harlemites impart upon you?

[Too Frank To Fred]

I like you, Too Frank To Fred, but that is an odd take. That's just like cutting of your nose to spite your face. A person basically not doing his or her part to prevent pretty much the worst people from coming and passing legislation that will affect in a negative manner the people of this country -- especially the already marginalized folks who spend their life fighting an uphill battle -- for years upon years to come.

I realize I may have come across as somewhat self-contradictory. To be clear, I voted. My point is, I understand the reasons people abstain and I can also see the logic that voting is an endorsement of a broken system.

Ultimately, I encourage everyone to use all the tools they are comfortable with...