Spitfire formula four

[MC3]

People who ride and/or have tried lock-in fulls, what’s your experience like?

 I like how they look (especially those black Grimple ones) and I’m curious about the actual “lock” they advertise. I mainly ride conical fulls and I like radial fulls enough so I’m not worried about the width, tho they look crazy.

Also, is it weird to rotate these one they wear down?

[Mbrimson88]

People who ride and/or have tried lock-in fulls, what’s your experience like?

 I like how they look (especially those black Grimple ones) and I’m curious about the actual “lock” they advertise. I mainly ride conical fulls and I like radial fulls enough so I’m not worried about the width, tho they look crazy.

Also, is it weird to rotate these one they wear down?

Lock In wheels, or Lock In Full wheels, have a Conical shaped face on one side and a Tablet like face on the other and offset around 2 threads of an axle on the set I had, although I did machine down the Tablet face just to have them a bit more rounded after the initial half a dozen sessions, so it probably doesn't count a whole lot for reference here, but I felt like they skated better for me after the modification.

Any asymmetric wheel is going to be a bit funny to flip over, but I had skated them both ways from new - as expected, the Tablet side in was a little more grippy on some things, very few things besides one sharp angle ledge actually, when compared to skating them with the Conical side in.  No different on round rails, coping or other not so sharp edges like a slappy curb - for which others had a really good go testing them on the board I had set up for all to use.

From some post a while back, someone had skated the Conical side in when skating a round handrail and the Tablet side in when skating a ledge and skatepark, but I can't remember who or where I saw that, but remember it being funny as it seemed like it was in the same day.

Maybe like a Prof Schmitt talk on regular skateboard decks, having a different nose and tail means you have a multi tool, so you could say the same about the wheels in that regard - you have two options in the single set of wheels.


They are wide too, really wide, but if you are good with wide wheels, they are much the same overall with just a little bit of difference on the inside edge, compared to my similar sized Radial Full wheels.

If I do flip them over, it is going to be all of them the same way, so all with main graphic in, or all with main graphic out, not one this way and another that way, which to me would just be weird.

[Too Frank To Fred]

I'm not much of a ledge or rail person but do skate a lot of curbs and coping and lock ins helped but not so much I'd use them full time. Losing the ability to reverse wheels as they wear wasn't worth it to me. In saying that, as Brimmo said, there's no reason you can't reverse lock ins if you really want.

[Xen]

People who ride and/or have tried lock-in fulls, what’s your experience like?

 I like how they look (especially those black Grimple ones) and I’m curious about the actual “lock” they advertise. I mainly ride conical fulls and I like radial fulls enough so I’m not worried about the width, tho they look crazy.

Also, is it weird to rotate these one they wear down?

I've ridden lock-ins twice now as well as the Nano rats, they do actually work as advertised, but I feel they are a specific use case like ledges or mini ramp (maybe); for stuff like slappys, they work great if all you do is get on and grind, but if you are looking to combo (nose to crook to nose or some shit) they are not as easy to toss around like a V1 or classic.

FWIW my recent 101a lockins are night and day harder than my 101 spit classics; they're also whiter...for that reason I like them alot...my classics 101 52mm (greens) just feel slugging compared to the lockins. weird.

[Sedition]

Do wheels get harder with age? Why are bearings harder to get in/out on older wheels? I’ve •always• wondered this, but never had an answer/explanation as what causes that phenomenon. Someone educate me.

[Xen]

Do wheels get harder with age? Why are bearings harder to get in/out on older wheels? I’ve •always• wondered this, but never had an answer/explanation as what causes that phenomenon. Someone educate me.

Yeah, urethane gets harder as it ages (bushings too), I have no idea about the science but I'm going to guess they just dry out/lose whatever moisture content they have...like how some polyurethane coatings can get dry/brittle...how you store them (cool dry place vs outside), getting water in/on them (they are porous), UV exposure, and by just not using them.

Personally, I've always wondered where the urethane goes as it wears down...flakes? chips? Urethane skidmarks everywhere...smearing non-biodegradeable micro plastic over everything... =D

[Mbrimson88]

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Do wheels get harder with age? Why are bearings harder to get in/out on older wheels? I’ve •always• wondered this, but never had an answer/explanation as what causes that phenomenon. Someone educate me.

[close]

Yeah, urethane gets harder as it ages (bushings too), I have no idea about the science but I'm going to guess they just dry out/lose whatever moisture content they have...like how some polyurethane coatings can get dry/brittle...how you store them (cool dry place vs outside), getting water in/on them (they are porous), UV exposure, and by just not using them.

Personally, I've always wondered where the urethane goes as it wears down...flakes? chips? Urethane skidmarks everywhere...smearing non-biodegradeable micro plastic over everything... =D

Yes, urethane cures with age and never stops curing, so said someone in the field of polyurethane products when asked well before getting in to all the ins and outs of skateboard products.

As to the fact that old wheels are so much harder to get bearings out of than newer wheels (or into I guess too), wheels have a coating or are washed in a solution which keeps the wheels covered but with age this wears off or dissolves so using something to give a little coating on either bearings or wheels helps make bearings pop in and out again.  Up to you what you want to put in there, but a little drop of lube on the bearing rim and run it round the join between bearing and wheel, light squeeze of something wet or dry onto the wheel before bearing removal, even graphite powder and then work the bearing a little side to side and it comes out quite easily / pops in again like a new set of wheels.  Sure beats trying to just dry pry the bearings out of old wheels, which I have done way too many times over the years.

Re where does the urethane go?  I never really noticed anything much from regular wheels, but when seeing someone on one of those down hill boards going stupidly fast and sliding, they leave urethane tracks, in much the same way cars doing burnouts leave rubber on the ground.  That stuff can be picked up although it is in very small amounts, you can still make a small pile of it in the palm of your hand, so regular wheels leave urethane in much smaller quantities over time, but in the same way.

FWIW my recent 101a lockins are night and day harder than my 101 spit classics; they're also whiter...for that reason I like them alot...my classics 101 52mm (greens) just feel slugging compared to the lockins. weird.

I thought it was just me, but I noticed this set of Lock In Full wheels I have are way whiter and way more chirpy and slippery than almost anything else I have.  Another guy who got some of the same wheels from somewhere else also found them to be too slippery for him, but other sets of new wheels like Radial Full and different shapes are no where near as hard feeling as these Lock In Full wheels, so I was wondering if it might be a batch or the current wheels had some additional change or something.

Curious to say the least.

[144p]

I think that shapes like the classic they make more so the formula might be a little tougher to perfect. A smaller batch for one off’s or less popular shapes will probably be closer to the og formula.
It was explained to me like this.
Making 3 dozen cookies is easy, making 20 dozen it’s easy for the ingredients to be a little off potentially. So lock in full will probably feel different than classic sometimes.

[Xen]

Just for ref, here is what I'm seeing with the lockins of late:
https://www.slapmagazine.com/index.php?topic=68020.msg4167425#msg4167425

Keep in mind that the lockins were skated so they're dirty vs the clean classics.

I just assume that 52mm classics are just everywhere, lots of stock floating around so it's possible to get old stock; even with the new drops, wheels with new prints, you never know how long the wheel has been sitting (hell what about the liquid form of the thane, do they mix regularly or does it sit in drums?)...do they pour, cure, screen, wrap and ship or do they sit around for a while? This is why  I lean towards getting colored/swirled wheels, chances are they're a fresh drop (my pink og classics 99a felt loads better than regs 99a classics from a recent drop).

[BeachChicken]

I have noticed that the Spits I have bought in the last ~7-8 seem to chunk much faster. My 97's have a bunch of chunks already, my 99 Radials have a massive gash from a revert on pretty normal asphalt, and some 53 99 Classics have probably a dozen across all wheels. One of my friends has had a similar experience and I don't remember this really happening to any of my Spitfires.

[Too Frank To Fred]

Softer wheels are going to be more prone to getting torn up, sliced, and chunked than 99s. There's no perfect wheel. Give and take based on what you're prioritizing.

I'm a big fan of these new 97s but I can tell they are not going to replace 99s for me. 99s are still faster and more durable.

[Fifty8mm]

I bought a set of 99a f4 50mm classics and they feel much different than my older sets of 99a f4. They almost feel plastic like. Like bones 83b.

I usually am fine with 99a on rougher asphalt but these rattle like a mf. Other than that they're good but not what im used to.

[BeachChicken]

Softer wheels are going to be more prone to getting torn up, sliced, and chunked than 99s. There's no perfect wheel. Give and take based on what you're prioritizing.

I'm a big fan of these new 97s but I can tell they are not going to replace 99s for me. 99s are still faster and more durable.

Most of my chunked wheels are newer 99s, but none of the older 99s I have in my bin have comparable chunks. Given the comments above about color and feel there might have been some sort of change that led to this.

[Too Frank To Fred]

I bought a set of 99a f4 50mm classics and they feel much different than my older sets of 99a f4. They almost feel plastic like. Like bones 83b.

I usually am fine with 99a on rougher asphalt but these rattle like a mf. Other than that they're good but not what im used to.

How 'broken in' are they? I feel F4s don't start feeling right until you get them roughed up a little.

Also potato brown is what you want.

[Fifty8mm]

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I bought a set of 99a f4 50mm classics and they feel much different than my older sets of 99a f4. They almost feel plastic like. Like bones 83b.

I usually am fine with 99a on rougher asphalt but these rattle like a mf. Other than that they're good but not what im used to.

[close]

How 'broken in' are they? I feel F4s don't start feeling right until you get them roughed up a little.

Also potato brown is what you want.

Theyre probably  1mm or 2 mm worn already. Just weird. Also the lil smokies feel the same. They both feel harder and rattle more than my 101 f4 tablets.

If anything I'll just buy the regular formula big heads. Favorite shape.

[Xen]

I bought a set of 99a f4 50mm classics and they feel much different than my older sets of 99a f4. They almost feel plastic like. Like bones 83b.

I usually am fine with 99a on rougher asphalt but these rattle like a mf. Other than that they're good but not what im used to.

Are these from a specific drop or are they just 50mm classics? What you have sounds like what I want Where did you get them?

[Mbrimson88]

I think that shapes like the classic they make more so the formula might be a little tougher to perfect. A smaller batch for one off’s or less popular shapes will probably be closer to the og formula.
It was explained to me like this.
Making 3 dozen cookies is easy, making 20 dozen it’s easy for the ingredients to be a little off potentially. So lock in full will probably feel different than classic sometimes.

Thank you for that info.

It definitely makes sense there too, the cookie analogy is a good one.

[Fifty8mm]

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I bought a set of 99a f4 50mm classics and they feel much different than my older sets of 99a f4. They almost feel plastic like. Like bones 83b.

I usually am fine with 99a on rougher asphalt but these rattle like a mf. Other than that they're good but not what im used to.

[close]

Are these from a specific drop or are they just 50mm classics? What you have sounds like what I want Where did you get them?

Regular f4 classics. I got them a couple of months ago but the lil smokies 99a 50mm classics feel the same. Plasticky.

[rawbertson.]

I noticed my shop in Canada got 97a Radial Fulls. Im assuming these are the old formula, right? I dont see anything indicating these are soft slider / reformulated. Just looks like old stock.

[BeachChicken]

There is a green/white 97a sticker that specifies it is the new formula.

[Xen]

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I bought a set of 99a f4 50mm classics and they feel much different than my older sets of 99a f4. They almost feel plastic like. Like bones 83b.

I usually am fine with 99a on rougher asphalt but these rattle like a mf. Other than that they're good but not what im used to.

[close]

Are these from a specific drop or are they just 50mm classics? What you have sounds like what I want Where did you get them?

[close]

Regular f4 classics. I got them a couple of months ago but the lil smokies 99a 50mm classics feel the same. Plasticky.

Thnx! Just ordered some 50mmm lil'smokies, here's hoping they aren't gummy!

[Sedition]

Thanks for the info about wheels getting harder over time. Would be really interesting to get a durometer test over awhile to see just how harder they get.

Also, the tip about getting bearings in/out of older wheels?! My god. I've been skating for how long, and I never once thought of doing that!?! Mind-blown. Much thanks. Total game changer. 

[Daydream]

Anyone have 93a for sale? Curious to try, figured maybe some tried and swapped out by now

[Xen]

Anyone have 93a for sale? Curious to try, figured maybe some tried and swapped out by now

DM me!

[Too Frank To Fred]

Took the reformulated 97s for spin at a slippery indoor bowl this morning and they did great. Seems like they slide on the rough stuff and grip on ice smooth slippery surfaces. Im also taking back my initial comments about durability. While they seemed to wear a little fast after the first week or two, now they are fully broken in, they are holding up great. A few slices here and there and they picked up a piece of metal I had to dig out but no performance concerns. Pretty magic 'all-rounder' wheel. My 93s remain unused on the book shelf.

[Too Frank To Fred]

Thanks for the info about wheels getting harder over time. Would be really interesting to get a durometer test over awhile to see just how harder they get.

Mu suspicion is the hardening is pretty marginal. I've had wheels in boxes for years before using them and they seemed very similar to fresher F4s. I should really keep them in the sun to bake those potatoes closer to a natural urethane yellowy brown.

[BeachChicken]

If anyone needs any 53 Classic 93s DM me I won't need mine either

[Mbrimson88]

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Thanks for the info about wheels getting harder over time. Would be really interesting to get a durometer test over awhile to see just how harder they get.

[close]

Mu suspicion is the hardening is pretty marginal. I've had wheels in boxes for years before using them and they seemed very similar to fresher F4s. I should really keep them in the sun to bake those potatoes closer to a natural urethane yellowy brown.

Agreed too.

Brand new in shrink wrap and still in the box / cupboard / tucked away usually seem to be pretty constant with minimal change.

Used and or opened sets that are on display colour and darken a lot more and often sound way more chirpy, even higher pitched than regular or new wheels, some more so than others, but I have a number of Formula Four Classics in 56 and 58 mm that seemed to get used a few times and then left, these ones with the old blue / red graphics like they used to have before they went to the swirl on the newer Classics, that are very much potato / onions and they sound and feel way harder when rolling, but not slippery, which is good.

I machined down a set of quite old yellowed 58 mm wheels to 53 not too long ago and although they lightened up as I went down, they still felt harder and were like glass riding on one of our usual parks - stupidly smooth feeling, which some people couldn't believe when I passed the board around for others I skate with to have a go and feel what they were like.

[nurkdurk]

Took the reformulated 97s for spin at a slippery indoor bowl this morning and they did great. Seems like they slide on the rough stuff and grip on ice smooth slippery surfaces.

Sick, I was worried they might slide too much on skatelite and be sketch.

I threw a set of new 97 57mm radials on the transition set up and got a short session at the crusty local bowl yesterday. They were faster than my 99 og classics were. I could easily carry enough speed to get on the coping in the deepest vert portions and in general I didn't have to pump as hard. Same bearings, classics were worn from 56 down to about 54 though.
The new 97s had bark that I miss with the 93s. Honestly think they're louder than my 99 f4s in a slide.

[Fifty8mm]

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I bought a set of 99a f4 50mm classics and they feel much different than my older sets of 99a f4. They almost feel plastic like. Like bones 83b.

I usually am fine with 99a on rougher asphalt but these rattle like a mf. Other than that they're good but not what im used to.

[close]

Are these from a specific drop or are they just 50mm classics? What you have sounds like what I want Where did you get them?

[close]

Regular f4 classics. I got them a couple of months ago but the lil smokies 99a 50mm classics feel the same. Plasticky.

[close]

Thnx! Just ordered some 50mmm lil'smokies, here's hoping they aren't gummy!

If they don't feel like i described, hit me up. I'll sent my lil smokies your way.