The griffin has a thicker midsole, or had, it's not that thick anymore, and a thin flat eva insole which is glued in, but easy to rip out. I pretty much only skate shoes with that outsole, vincents/new mj/fura, and the griffin is my go to shoe, and I usually skate them with the 7 mm flat kingfoam ones becuase it makes the shoe fit super snug, but the orthotics work good as well.