Slap MessageBoards
Skateboarding => USELESS WOODEN TOY BANTER => Topic started by: yourbreakfsat on July 13, 2020, 06:36:26 PM
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https://www.sundayguardianlive.com/news/global-brands-employ-uyghur-muslims-forced-labour
New Delhi: The Chinese government is forcing thousands of its Uyghur Muslim citizens to work as “forced labour” in hundreds of factories across Chinese cities, according to a report published by an Australian think tank in March this year.
The report released by the Australian Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI) titled “Uyghurs for Sale” stated that big, well-known global companies in the field of clothing, technology and automotive sectors like Abercrombie & Fitch, Amazon, GAP, H&M, Nike, Jack & Jones, Sharp, Siemens, Skechers, ASUS, Apple, Samsung, Huawei, BMW, Volkswagen, Sony, Polo Ralph Lauren, Puma, Victoria’s Secret, Vivo, among others, are using Uyghur Muslims as “forced labour” in their factories in China.
According to the report, these minority labour forces in China are being supplied in a systematic way under the revived and exploitative government-led labour transfer scheme to Chinese factories outside the Xinjiang province in China where this community of Muslims live.
“The ASPI has identified 27 factories in nine Chinese provinces that are using Uyghur labour transferred from Xinjiang since 2017. Those factories claim to be part of the supply chain of 83 well-known global brands. Between 2017 and 2019, we estimate that at least 80,000 Uyghurs were transferred out of Xinjiang and assigned to factories through labour transfer programmes under a Central government policy known as ‘Xinjiang Aid’,” the report said.
The factories in which these Uyghur Muslims are made to work form a major chunk of the supply chain of these big brands. For example, in January 2020, around 600 ethnic minority workers from Xinjiang were employed at Qingdao Taekwang Shoes Co. Ltd, which makes shoes for the American company Nike. The workforce in this factory are mostly Uyghur women from Hotan and Kashgar towns in China, which are remote parts of southern Xinjiang that the Chinese government has described as “backward” and “disturbed by religious extremism”.
The report also mentions that it had investigated into the Haoyuanpeng Clothing Manufacturing Co. Ltd, which has a strategic partnership with global companies like the Italian-South Korean fashion label Fila, German sportswear companies Adidas and Puma and Nike for manufacturing clothes and found that it was part of the “Xinjiang Aid” and had been receiving “forced labour”.
https://www.aspi.org.au/report/uyghurs-sale
In January 2020, around 600 ethnic minority workers from Xinjiang were employed at Qingdao Taekwang Shoes Co. Ltd (青岛泰光制鞋有限公司).48 Taekwang’s primary customer is the American multinational company Nike Incorporated. The Xinjiang workers are mostly Uyghur women from Hotan and Kashgar prefectures, which are remote parts of southern Xinjiang that the Chinese government has described as ‘backward’ and ‘disturbed by religious extremism’.
At the factory, the Uyghur labourers make Nike shoes during the day. In the evening, they attend a night school where they study Mandarin, sing the Chinese national anthem and receive ‘vocational training’ and ‘patriotic education’. The curriculum closely mirrors that of Xinjiang’s ‘re-education camps’.
The sprawling Taekwang factory compound is located in Laixi City, to the north of Qingdao in China’s Shandong province, and is owned by the Taekwang Group, a South Korean chemical and textile conglomerate (chaebol). Taekwang’s Laixi factory is one of the largest manufacturers of shoes for Nike, producing more than seven million pairs for the American brand annually.
I only quoted specific parts that relate to corporations involved in skating. I advise reading the entirety of both articles as they go into more detail.
If this thread gets focused, Nike lawyers did it.
CONSOOOM NYJAH 2
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We should all be outraged. However, the western world's retail goods powerhouses and their reliance on slave labour and sweatshops has been out in the open for decades and it turns out, somehow, no one really cares. It's disgusting.
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Easy with the Sinophobia.
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That's nuts, try to buy local & smaller business. .HAVEN'T BOUGHT NEW NIKES IN YEARS. The last "new" shoe I bought was the Dc Legacy, and I am also riding the Figgy 2's right now. Cheap labor is definitely alot better than that forced slave labor extremist stuff
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Damn, respect. Sok, neither company’s made anything good recently imo.
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From what I read in perhaps a different article was that the Air Max shoes are what specifically made there. Not to give impunity to the SB line or anything
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US companies that conduct business with jurisdictions under human rights sanctions violate Office of Foreign Assets Control ("OFAC") regulations. The US Treasury Department just issued an advisory regarding the matter. The OFAC regulation not only applies to companies doing business directly but if any of the companies or its subsidiaries involved in the transaction have contact through their supply chains with the Xinjiang region that have used forced labor, they both would be in violation of Executive Order (E.O.) 13818. Meaning that if a skate shop stocked Nike's and not Nike directly but a separate company Nike bought materials was located in the Xinjiang region both the skate shop and Nike would have violated US sanctions law.
https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Programs/Documents/20200701_xinjiang_advisory.pdf
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There is no ethical consumption under capitalism. This doesn't exonerate people from spending their dollars thoughtfully, but it is important to remember.
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There is no ethical consumption under capitalism. This doesn't exonerate people from spending their dollars thoughtfully, but it is important to remember.
yeah. i could choose to be outraged at nike or adidas and copy paste one of those don't do it memes but then i'd realize i'd be doing that from a computer built off of other peoples suffering and i'd be a big giant doodoohead, wouldn't i
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Did you notice that it is the Chinese government that is forcing Uyghur Muslims to work?
Nike and Adidas get their product from there so that's how it's done.
Please don't think other skate brands aren't doing the same. Unfortunately they are small fish but they're swimming in the same waters.
Not happy. Don't spend money on Nike or Adidas.
In theory if they see drops in sales linked to this, they might move their operations. Not sure the Chinese government will change though and the basic economics of using slave labour over skilled labour is quite an attraction when you want to flood the markets with your products.
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Crazy times
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We should all be outraged. However, the western world's retail goods powerhouses and their reliance on slave labour and sweatshops has been out in the open for decades and it turns out, somehow, no one really cares. It's disgusting.
So I’m assuming you’ve never bought anything from any of the brands listed in the original post?
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There is no ethical consumption under capitalism. This doesn't exonerate people from spending their dollars thoughtfully, but it is important to remember.
yeah. i could choose to be outraged at nike or adidas and copy paste one of those don't do it memes but then i'd realize i'd be doing that from a computer built off of other peoples suffering and i'd be a big giant doodoohead, wouldn't i
If we all followed your logic nothing would ever change because something else bad exists so whats the point of changing anything? Stupid reductive kook.
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We should all be outraged. However, the western world's retail goods powerhouses and their reliance on slave labour and sweatshops has been out in the open for decades and it turns out, somehow, no one really cares. It's disgusting.
My entire point was that we've all known about depraved labour standards for decades, but tuck that knowledge away in our minds to some extent when we make purchasing decisions, myself included. It's a disgusting thing.
But while we're on the topic of assumptions, I'm going to assume that since you back war criminals you also back slave labour.
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We should all be outraged. However, the western world's retail goods powerhouses and their reliance on slave labour and sweatshops has been out in the open for decades and it turns out, somehow, no one really cares. It's disgusting.
My entire point was that we've all known about depraved labour standards for decades, but tuck that knowledge away in our minds to some extent when we make purchasing decisions, myself included. It's a disgusting thing.
But while we're on the topic of assumptions, I'm going to assume that since you back war criminals you also back slave labour.
Ofcourse, it makes the world go round.
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I wonder if Ishod will do the righteous thing and start blowing up his insta stories with this info :o
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Americans living in a country chock full of human rights violations and somehow still finding time to obsess over perceived Chinese injustice.
Wonder why? Who could this benefit?
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I'm a bit stupid when it comes to economics. And don't know where to begin learning. But is it even possible to have a product made that is 'affordable' to us without the use of some nasty underpaid labor being involved?
Not backing slave labor btw. We mostly grow up in a world where a large amount of goods in front of us are products of both land/environment and people being heavily exploited.
It makes me feel helpless and I have yet to come to a conclusion about how to tackle this.
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So does this mean we have to cancel everyone that rides for Nike/Adidas?
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I'm a bit stupid when it comes to economics. And don't know where to begin learning. But is it even possible to have a product made that is 'affordable' to us without the use of some nasty underpaid labor being involved?
Not backing slave labor btw. We mostly grow up in a world where a large amount of goods in front of us are products of both land/environment and people being heavily exploited.
It makes me feel helpless and I have yet to come to a conclusion about how to tackle this.
It was, from post-war until the flight overseas for higher profits. All skate stuff, Nike’s included were US made until the late 80’s.
Remember seeing ‘Union-made’ on labels? That was a selling point-it meant the workers got a decent wage, and presumably made their stuff with pride.
What we have not is not some inescapable law of nature, it was designed like this by humans, to profit (a small minority of) humans, and it can be improved on by humans.
So does this mean we have to cancel everyone that rides for Nike/Adidas?
No. We go to the root, and cancel capitalism
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There is no ethical consumption under capitalism. This doesn't exonerate people from spending their dollars thoughtfully, but it is important to remember.
I recently was talking about this with a good friend; recently with all of the tragedies going on, my wife and I revisited where we will be spending our money etc, all of which revolves around completely eliminating business that carry Trump products and/or support him through donations, and spending money on products that are available on a smaller, local level. Nixing businesses that are not supportive of the Black community and LBGQT has also been a move we have made as we had to make some changes.
I have also been huge on making sure I do not buy products that have been tested on animals as well. I am far from perfect as I love dress shoes, etc, and many of those are made from leather/suede, so I am looking to steer away from that.
The key word as mentioned above is spend your money thoughtfully.
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Pretty sure a company like Patagonia has a good ethical record.
Yes, their clothes are expensive however they are also built to last.
Longevity is another thing to think about.
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People bring up the abhorrent realities of shoe manufacturing, but I seldom see a suggested remedy that accompanies it. What do we as consumers do to change this? Do we exclusively buy New Balances made in the US/ UK? Do we pony up several hundred/ thousand dollars and buy high fashion shoes hand made in Italy/ Paris? It’s always a slippery slope once we start talking about how we’d go about fixing this sort of thing, but if anyone has any practical solutions I’d be more than willing to listen...
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People bring up the abhorrent realities of shoe manufacturing, but I seldom see a suggested remedy that accompanies it. What do we as consumers do to change this? Do we exclusively buy New Balances made in the US/ UK? Do we pony up several hundred/ thousand dollars and buy high fashion shoes hand made in Italy/ Paris? It’s always a slippery slope once we start talking about how we’d go about fixing this sort of thing, but if anyone has any practical solutions I’d be more than willing to listen...
Yes.
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There is no ethical consumption under capitalism. This doesn't exonerate people from spending their dollars thoughtfully, but it is important to remember.
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(https://imageshack.com/i/poaLS2xRj)
Consolidated was -always- right about this.
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I'm a bit stupid when it comes to economics. And don't know where to begin learning. But is it even possible to have a product made that is 'affordable' to us without the use of some nasty underpaid labor being involved?
Not backing slave labor btw. We mostly grow up in a world where a large amount of goods in front of us are products of both land/environment and people being heavily exploited.
It makes me feel helpless and I have yet to come to a conclusion about how to tackle this.
I recommend selling all of your possessions then buy a chainsaw, basic non powered hand tools, fishing rod, tackle, solar set up, male and female buffalo. Move to the Midwest buy property that contains trees, cut down the trees to build a cabin. Then start breeding buffalos they will provide everything you need to survive. Reference Native American culture pre white man. I actually think you will reach a point in creating the best buffalo skin macasins the world has ever seen! If your not a great woodworker a teepee would suffice
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Hasn't this been pretty common knowledge for a while already? Sucks, but won't change as long as it's legal to import stuff from these countries. Smaller brands aren't any better either
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I'm a bit stupid when it comes to economics. And don't know where to begin learning. But is it even possible to have a product made that is 'affordable' to us without the use of some nasty underpaid labor being involved?
Not backing slave labor btw. We mostly grow up in a world where a large amount of goods in front of us are products of both land/environment and people being heavily exploited.
It makes me feel helpless and I have yet to come to a conclusion about how to tackle this.
Pontus Alv's new shoe company, Last Resort AB, seems to be combating this issue somewhat. Obviously it will be skater owned and I think the shoes will be manufactured in Portugal. I'm no expert but from my understanding Portugal's shoe manufacturing industry has been on the rise lately.
They apparently have better craftsmanship and working conditions than their Asian counterparts right now. They still basically get paid the federal minimum but I guess that's better than literal slave labor.
Like I said I'm no expert but Portugal manufacturing seems like a much better option right now. Last Resort is supposed to be coming soon so we'll have to see how affordable they are but Pontus has said that they would be. I'm hoping the shoes are good and affordable because even small skater owned brands like State are made in china because they feel they have to in order to compete.
Edit: Never mind Last Resort are made in Vietnam.... God damn it Pontus.
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People bring up the abhorrent realities of shoe manufacturing, but I seldom see a suggested remedy that accompanies it. What do we as consumers do to change this? Do we exclusively buy New Balances made in the US/ UK? Do we pony up several hundred/ thousand dollars and buy high fashion shoes hand made in Italy/ Paris? It’s always a slippery slope once we start talking about how we’d go about fixing this sort of thing, but if anyone has any practical solutions I’d be more than willing to listen...
Yes.
Really interested: Are NB Numerics produced in England or the US? Apparently New Balance also started producing some of its stuff in China, but I don't know which part of their product line.
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Does anyone know if Soletech uses slave labor?
All I know is that they’re made in Nam
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People bring up the abhorrent realities of shoe manufacturing, but I seldom see a suggested remedy that accompanies it. What do we as consumers do to change this? Do we exclusively buy New Balances made in the US/ UK? Do we pony up several hundred/ thousand dollars and buy high fashion shoes hand made in Italy/ Paris? It’s always a slippery slope once we start talking about how we’d go about fixing this sort of thing, but if anyone has any practical solutions I’d be more than willing to listen...
Yes.
Really interested: Are NB Numerics produced in England or the US? Apparently New Balance also started producing some of its stuff in China, but I don't know which part of their product line.
Nb# are made in China. Every pair I have skated have a made in China patch inside. Maybe some of their other shoe lines are made in the US/UK though.
Do any skate shoe companies use ethically sourced labor?
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For the Culture.
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Johan gives some LA slut cum dumpsters herpes and it goes 30pages I’m guessing this one will stop at about 5pages.
Hits too close to home and will ruin your life if you accept everything you own that is electronic or made of cotton was made by slaves.
These are the big brands being called out. Chances are that even if a company gets products that aren’t supplied from this region ,China and the distribution are lying to them.
Everything you own is made by slaves in China. There is more slavery now than any other time in the world.
The amount of environmental damage done at these plants is also insane, they literally dump toxic black dye straight into rivers that people drink out of down stream.
It’s chill we are all fucked.
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There is no ethical consumption under capitalism. This doesn't exonerate people from spending their dollars thoughtfully, but it is important to remember.
This is so true....there really isnt anyway around it unfortunately unless your amish or some shit
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People bring up the abhorrent realities of shoe manufacturing, but I seldom see a suggested remedy that accompanies it. What do we as consumers do to change this? Do we exclusively buy New Balances made in the US/ UK? Do we pony up several hundred/ thousand dollars and buy high fashion shoes hand made in Italy/ Paris? It’s always a slippery slope once we start talking about how we’d go about fixing this sort of thing, but if anyone has any practical solutions I’d be more than willing to listen...
Yes.
Really interested: Are NB Numerics produced in England or the US? Apparently New Balance also started producing some of its stuff in China, but I don't know which part of their product line.
Do any skate shoe companies use ethically sourced labor?
I just checked several pairs of NB and they all say made in Indonesia.
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Does anyone know if Soletech uses slave labor?
All I know is that they’re made in Nam
Vietnam's labor laws are downright disgusting. While they don't have out-and-out slavery, Vietnam does have "forced" overtime. Essentially the employees are forced to work extra hours with no extra pay.
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I'm a bit stupid when it comes to economics. And don't know where to begin learning. But is it even possible to have a product made that is 'affordable' to us without the use of some nasty underpaid labor being involved?
Not backing slave labor btw. We mostly grow up in a world where a large amount of goods in front of us are products of both land/environment and people being heavily exploited.
It makes me feel helpless and I have yet to come to a conclusion about how to tackle this.
Pontus Alv's new shoe company, Last Resort AB, seems to be combating this issue somewhat. Obviously it will be skater owned and I think the shoes will be manufactured in Portugal. I'm no expert but from my understanding Portugal's shoe manufacturing industry has been on the rise lately.
They apparently have better craftsmanship and working conditions than their Asian counterparts right now. They still basically get paid the federal minimum but I guess that's better than literal slave labor.
Like I said I'm no expert but Portugal manufacturing seems like a much better option right now. Last Resort is supposed to be coming soon so we'll have to see how affordable they are but Pontus has said that they would be. I'm hoping the shoes are good and affordable because even small skater owned brands like State are made in china because they feel they have to in order to compete.
Edit: Never mind Last Resort are made in Vietnam.... God damn it Pontus.
Definitely how he planned to "bring the price down" for the skate shoes from the get go, unfortunately. Knowing that a lot of fast fashion houses have operated out of places like Portugal and Turkey for a long time doesn't sit well with me knowing that it's probably not too far off conditions elsewhere for these workers.
I'll bet that Last Resort AB will still cost a pretty penny everywhere.
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Johan gives some LA slut cum dumpsters herpes and it goes 30pages I’m guessing this one will stop at about 5pages.
Hits too close to home and will ruin your life if you accept everything you own that is electronic or made of cotton was made by slaves.
These are the big brands being called out. Chances are that even if a company gets products that aren’t supplied from this region ,China and the distribution are lying to them.
Everything you own is made by slaves in China. There is more slavery now than any other time in the world.
The amount of environmental damage done at these plants is also insane, they literally dump toxic black dye straight into rivers that people drink out of down stream.
It’s chill we are all fucked.
It's easy to make claims against some idiot allegedly spreading some disease; It's much more difficult to look in the mirror and accept that the things we like (shoes, decks, et al.,) are made by child/slave labor.
The divisive crap that is created in this country is meant to obfuscate that real atrocities that are happening in the world. If we really got serious about making societal change, we'd have to burn down all the things we like.
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Johan gives some LA slut cum dumpsters herpes and it goes 30pages I’m guessing this one will stop at about 5pages.
Hits too close to home and will ruin your life if you accept everything you own that is electronic or made of cotton was made by slaves.
These are the big brands being called out. Chances are that even if a company gets products that aren’t supplied from this region ,China and the distribution are lying to them.
Everything you own is made by slaves in China. There is more slavery now than any other time in the world.
The amount of environmental damage done at these plants is also insane, they literally dump toxic black dye straight into rivers that people drink out of down stream.
It’s chill we are all fucked.
It's easy to make claims against some idiot allegedly spreading some disease; It's much more difficult to look in the mirror and accept that the things we like (shoes, decks, et al.,) are made by child/slave labor.
The divisive crap that is created in this country is meant to obfuscate that real atrocities that are happening in the world. If we really got serious about making societal change, we'd have to burn down all the things we like.
I don’t think we need to burn down everything we like. But it will change drastically, in ways we can only start to imagine.
But what’s the alternative? Slightly ‘less’ slavery? Only a ‘slightly longer’ time till the climate burns us?
Let’s reimagine this society as something rational, and work towards it.
I tried to make a thread dedicated just to imagining what a post-capitalist skate scene would look like, but certain people wanted to focus on the details of the economics rather than the thought experiment.
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I’m curious, I know Vans has a factory in CA. But do they also have factories in China?
I’d assume most of their materials come from China as well.
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Americans living in a country chock full of human rights violations and somehow still finding time to obsess over perceived Chinese injustice.
Wonder why? Who could this benefit?
The world does not revolve around America.
As fucked up America is with societal issues, the systematic human rights violations that people who practice Falun Gong, the Uyghur people, Tibetans and more minority groups within China face is horrendous. Kidnapping, organ harvesting, slave labor and sex trafficking, as much as people like to call red herring on those who focus on issues outside of America, remember the world does not focus solely on you guys.
My heart goes for the victims of injustices in America, but I know more people from Hong Kong, Taiwan (RoC) and India, and the shit China has been getting away with against these countries, and also against minority groups within their country, for the past few decades is horrendous.
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Americans living in a country chock full of human rights violations and somehow still finding time to obsess over perceived Chinese injustice.
Wonder why? Who could this benefit?
The world does not revolve around America.
As fucked up America is with societal issues, the systematic human rights violations that people who practice Falun Gong, the Uyghur people, Tibetans and more minority groups within China face is horrendous. Kidnapping, organ harvesting, slave labor and sex trafficking, as much as people like to call red herring on those who focus on issues outside of America, remember the world does not focus solely on you guys.
My heart goes for the victims of injustices in America, but I know more people from Hong Kong, Taiwan (RoC) and India, and the shit China has been getting away with against these countries, and also against minority groups within their country, for the past few decades is horrendous.
I had to write an article for a news outlet pertaining to the atrocities committed against the folks who practice Falun Gong, they were unreal. Glad to see someone else is familiar with everything going on abroad, I don’t think most Americans have a clue about things that go on outside of the States if US interests aren’t involved. I know things aren’t awesome for everyone in the US, but they’re unfathomably worse for regular ppl who live in the areas you mentioned. Their government/ private enterprise relations are basically a recipe for human rights violations that would have Americans violently rioting if it happened stateside. Things would remain relatively unchanged in those countries if the US pulled their business interests out of these countries, and there’s little we can do to make things better there.
Not that I’m excusing companies trying to remain competitive by outsourcing labor from workforce’s who are subject to these abhorrent conditions, I’m just saying I see where the problem lies and it’s greater than us. Widespread onsumer culture would practically disappear overnight if China, Taiwan, Indonesia, etc. had a western style revolution that prioritized individual liberties.
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Americans living in a country chock full of human rights violations and somehow still finding time to obsess over perceived Chinese injustice.
Wonder why? Who could this benefit?
The world does not revolve around America.
As fucked up America is with societal issues, the systematic human rights violations that people who practice Falun Gong, the Uyghur people, Tibetans and more minority groups within China face is horrendous. Kidnapping, organ harvesting, slave labor and sex trafficking, as much as people like to call red herring on those who focus on issues outside of America, remember the world does not focus solely on you guys.
My heart goes for the victims of injustices in America, but I know more people from Hong Kong, Taiwan (RoC) and India, and the shit China has been getting away with against these countries, and also against minority groups within their country, for the past few decades is horrendous.
The human rights concern trolling in the west is largely due to the perceived Chinese threat to US capital/hegemony.
The fact that the world does not revolve around America, and it’s allies, is at the heart of the issue.
My point is not that China or any other country is beyond criticism, but that the US has no position of moral high ground to indict China from.
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Widespread onsumer culture would practically disappear overnight if China, Taiwan, Indonesia, etc. had a western style revolution that prioritized individual liberties.
LOL
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Everyone writing this off should be ashamed. “Duh it would be hippocritcal if me to be mad duh, because my computer is uh made in China”
This is pretty transparent. China allows and provides slaves to make products for large companies. We can make a difference if we start small and stop supporting this. The only thing that resembles capitalism in this scenario is that money is exchanged for goods. I don’t care where you land on the political spectrum. You should be outraged and angry at this.
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I’m curious, I know Vans has a factory in CA. But do they also have factories in China?
I’d assume most of their materials come from China as well.
US environmental laws especially in ca are stringent. The process of cooking the rubber to vulcanize it isn’t allowed. Same goes with producing the styrofoam used in the center of surf boards. Everything made with those processes has been done out of the US for quite some time.
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People bring up the abhorrent realities of shoe manufacturing, but I seldom see a suggested remedy that accompanies it. What do we as consumers do to change this? Do we exclusively buy New Balances made in the US/ UK? Do we pony up several hundred/ thousand dollars and buy high fashion shoes hand made in Italy/ Paris? It’s always a slippery slope once we start talking about how we’d go about fixing this sort of thing, but if anyone has any practical solutions I’d be more than willing to listen...
Yes.
Really interested: Are NB Numerics produced in England or the US? Apparently New Balance also started producing some of its stuff in China, but I don't know which part of their product line.
Do any skate shoe companies use ethically sourced labor?
Shit. I definitely want to vote with my money, so I'm hoping Polar's new shoe company is gonna be good. They should be out in september, produced in Portugal – hopefully not by a chinese colony, that is what China does lately, just producing in foreign countries, under shit conditions with cheap chinese labor so they can tag the products "Made in Italy", for example.
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Americans living in a country chock full of human rights violations and somehow still finding time to obsess over perceived Chinese injustice.
Wonder why? Who could this benefit?
The world does not revolve around America.
As fucked up America is with societal issues, the systematic human rights violations that people who practice Falun Gong, the Uyghur people, Tibetans and more minority groups within China face is horrendous. Kidnapping, organ harvesting, slave labor and sex trafficking, as much as people like to call red herring on those who focus on issues outside of America, remember the world does not focus solely on you guys.
My heart goes for the victims of injustices in America, but I know more people from Hong Kong, Taiwan (RoC) and India, and the shit China has been getting away with against these countries, and also against minority groups within their country, for the past few decades is horrendous.
The fact that the world does not revolve around America, and it’s allies, is at the heart of the issue.
My point is not that China or any other country is beyond criticism, but that the US has no position of moral high ground to indict China from.
You're not wrong. We aren't great about the things we do to our people on the lowest rungs of society. That said, we don't hold a candle to what the Chinese government is doing to the Uyghers. We're not sterilizing anyone in the United states or sending anyone to 're-education' camps because they believe in things that are not approved by the government.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/SmxHxYgj/image.png)
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People bring up the abhorrent realities of shoe manufacturing, but I seldom see a suggested remedy that accompanies it. What do we as consumers do to change this? Do we exclusively buy New Balances made in the US/ UK? Do we pony up several hundred/ thousand dollars and buy high fashion shoes hand made in Italy/ Paris? It’s always a slippery slope once we start talking about how we’d go about fixing this sort of thing, but if anyone has any practical solutions I’d be more than willing to listen...
Yes.
Really interested: Are NB Numerics produced in England or the US? Apparently New Balance also started producing some of its stuff in China, but I don't know which part of their product line.
Do any skate shoe companies use ethically sourced labor?
I just checked several pairs of NB and they all say made in Indonesia.
You're correct, was in my local shop and looked at the tags on the Nb#. All said made in Indonesia.
All of the new balance I have skated between 2015-17 all say made in China. Specifically the Arto(358), brightons(now 345) and quincys(now 255). Stopped skating them after 2017. They must have switched the factories after 2017.
Start-2017: China
2018-Current: Indonesia
I did hear a rumor that they were going to make the Nb# line in the US/UK factories but never saw that happen...
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People bring up the abhorrent realities of shoe manufacturing, but I seldom see a suggested remedy that accompanies it. What do we as consumers do to change this? Do we exclusively buy New Balances made in the US/ UK? Do we pony up several hundred/ thousand dollars and buy high fashion shoes hand made in Italy/ Paris? It’s always a slippery slope once we start talking about how we’d go about fixing this sort of thing, but if anyone has any practical solutions I’d be more than willing to listen...
Yes.
Really interested: Are NB Numerics produced in England or the US? Apparently New Balance also started producing some of its stuff in China, but I don't know which part of their product line.
Do any skate shoe companies use ethically sourced labor?
I just checked several pairs of NB and they all say made in Indonesia.
All of the new balance I have skated between 2015-17 all say made in China. Specifically the Arto(358), brightons(now 345) and quincys(now 255). Stopped skating them after 2017. They must have switched the factories after 2017.
Start-2017: China
2018-Current: Indonesia
I did hear a rumor that they were going to make the Nb# line in the US/UK factories but never saw that happen...
Any NB that's under $160ish is made overseas. Everybody likes to complain about their stuff being made in Asia, but if their skate shoes were $169.99 they'd just complain about the price instead. Even their USA made product is made half overseas, then glued and stitched in New England.
I'd buy Last Resort made in Portugal or Italy for a premium. That said, garment workers are treated pretty badly everywhere in the world. LA factories especially are known for being super sleazy.
All that said, what's happening to the Uyguhr's is a crime against humanity.
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Everyone writing this off should be ashamed. “Duh it would be hippocritcal if me to be mad duh, because my computer is uh made in China”
This is pretty transparent. China allows and provides slaves to make products for large companies. We can make a difference if we start small and stop supporting this. The only thing that resembles capitalism in this scenario is that money is exchanged for goods. I don’t care where you land on the political spectrum. You should be outraged and angry at this.
lol so are you gonna destroy all you’re possessions that were made in China now? If not you should be ashamed of yourself.
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Hell, renationalizing a few of these industries would fix a majority of these issues. Not only that, but renationalizing these industries would fix a big portion of the unemployment issues the US is facing. Corporations only go to these countries because they're able to take advantage of the deplorable working conditions that are forced upon the populace in those nations.
Would renationalizing fix the inequality issues in the US, probably not. That said, paying someone minimum wage in a first world nation is far preferable than forcing children to make shoes in China.
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People bring up the abhorrent realities of shoe manufacturing, but I seldom see a suggested remedy that accompanies it. What do we as consumers do to change this? Do we exclusively buy New Balances made in the US/ UK? Do we pony up several hundred/ thousand dollars and buy high fashion shoes hand made in Italy/ Paris? It’s always a slippery slope once we start talking about how we’d go about fixing this sort of thing, but if anyone has any practical solutions I’d be more than willing to listen...
Yes.
Really interested: Are NB Numerics produced in England or the US? Apparently New Balance also started producing some of its stuff in China, but I don't know which part of their product line.
Do any skate shoe companies use ethically sourced labor?
I just checked several pairs of NB and they all say made in Indonesia.
New Balance has Made in the US shoes but only a handful of models and they're pricey. I doubt anyone's ever bought a pair of US made New Balances without knowing it
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Everyone writing this off should be ashamed. “Duh it would be hippocritcal if me to be mad duh, because my computer is uh made in China”
This is pretty transparent. China allows and provides slaves to make products for large companies. We can make a difference if we start small and stop supporting this. The only thing that resembles capitalism in this scenario is that money is exchanged for goods. I don’t care where you land on the political spectrum. You should be outraged and angry at this.
Capitalism, since its early days has ALWAYS tended towards exploitation. Don’t kid yourself that we aren’t living in some textbook Mises world.
Aggregation of capitalism is aggregation of power, which is circular. It has done this this again and again throughout history, from child labor to 12-hour workdays to increasingly pollution to now sweatshops, slave labor, and finally, Global Heating that is an actual threat to our planet.
Exploitation is built into this system, and it needs to be replaced, not reformed.
This should be obvious by now.
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People bring up the abhorrent realities of shoe manufacturing, but I seldom see a suggested remedy that accompanies it. What do we as consumers do to change this? Do we exclusively buy New Balances made in the US/ UK? Do we pony up several hundred/ thousand dollars and buy high fashion shoes hand made in Italy/ Paris? It’s always a slippery slope once we start talking about how we’d go about fixing this sort of thing, but if anyone has any practical solutions I’d be more than willing to listen...
Yes.
Really interested: Are NB Numerics produced in England or the US? Apparently New Balance also started producing some of its stuff in China, but I don't know which part of their product line.
Do any skate shoe companies use ethically sourced labor?
I just checked several pairs of NB and they all say made in Indonesia.
All of the new balance I have skated between 2015-17 all say made in China. Specifically the Arto(358), brightons(now 345) and quincys(now 255). Stopped skating them after 2017. They must have switched the factories after 2017.
Start-2017: China
2018-Current: Indonesia
I did hear a rumor that they were going to make the Nb# line in the US/UK factories but never saw that happen...
Any NB that's under $160ish is made overseas. Everybody likes to complain about their stuff being made in Asia, but if their skate shoes were $169.99 they'd just complain about the price instead. Even their USA made product is made half overseas, then glued and stitched in New England.
I'd buy Last Resort made in Portugal or Italy for a premium. That said, garment workers are treated pretty badly everywhere in the world. LA factories especially are known for being super sleazy.
All that said, what's happening to the Uyguhr's is a crime against humanity.
Also interested in trying out last resort once they are available.
What has been happening to the Uyguhrs is something that should not be allowed.
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People bring up the abhorrent realities of shoe manufacturing, but I seldom see a suggested remedy that accompanies it. What do we as consumers do to change this? Do we exclusively buy New Balances made in the US/ UK? Do we pony up several hundred/ thousand dollars and buy high fashion shoes hand made in Italy/ Paris? It’s always a slippery slope once we start talking about how we’d go about fixing this sort of thing, but if anyone has any practical solutions I’d be more than willing to listen...
Yes.
Really interested: Are NB Numerics produced in England or the US? Apparently New Balance also started producing some of its stuff in China, but I don't know which part of their product line.
Do any skate shoe companies use ethically sourced labor?
Shit. I definitely want to vote with my money, so I'm hoping Polar's new shoe company is gonna be good. They should be out in september, produced in Portugal – hopefully not by a chinese colony, that is what China does lately, just producing in foreign countries, under shit conditions with cheap chinese labor so they can tag the products "Made in Italy", for example.
I get this, I try to vote with my money too, but I’ve been trying it for about 20+ years now, and it’s about as effective as voting in real life.
Because it’s the same problem. The system is designed to allow for Biden or Trump, sweatshop made Vans or sweatshop-made Nike’s, and basically it’s whichever branding you prefer.
‘Voting with money’ puts the ethical responsibility on the consumer, not the ones actually doing the exploiting. It’s fucking backwards.
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spiderman meme
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Cariuma and Simple stand behind their standards of labor, but their stuff is made in China too, and there isn't full disclosure of their practices, so it's kind of hard to find something you know is made ethically. I'll support companies that I know do right by the environment and their workers, but that alone is hard as fuck to know with any confidence.
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lol so are you gonna destroy all you’re possessions that were made in China now? If not you should be ashamed of yourself.
This is the coward’s solution. The problem is too big, we’d have to change so much. Yes but, in so doing, we will improve everything for everybody. Fewer tirefires smoldering across the planet means slightly cleaner air and water for all of us. If that’s too fucking challenging for you, then give up, go home and stfu, ya quitter.
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People bring up the abhorrent realities of shoe manufacturing, but I seldom see a suggested remedy that accompanies it. What do we as consumers do to change this? Do we exclusively buy New Balances made in the US/ UK? Do we pony up several hundred/ thousand dollars and buy high fashion shoes hand made in Italy/ Paris? It’s always a slippery slope once we start talking about how we’d go about fixing this sort of thing, but if anyone has any practical solutions I’d be more than willing to listen...
Yes.
Really interested: Are NB Numerics produced in England or the US? Apparently New Balance also started producing some of its stuff in China, but I don't know which part of their product line.
Do any skate shoe companies use ethically sourced labor?
Shit. I definitely want to vote with my money, so I'm hoping Polar's new shoe company is gonna be good. They should be out in september, produced in Portugal – hopefully not by a chinese colony, that is what China does lately, just producing in foreign countries, under shit conditions with cheap chinese labor so they can tag the products "Made in Italy", for example.
I get this, I try to vote with my money too, but I’ve been trying it for about 20+ years now, and it’s about as effective as voting in real life.
Because it’s the same problem. The system is designed to allow for Biden or Trump, sweatshop made Vans or sweatshop-made Nike’s, and basically it’s whichever branding you prefer.
‘Voting with money’ puts the ethical responsibility on the consumer, not the ones actually doing the exploiting. It’s fucking backwards.
You're definitely right that pushing responsibility just on the consumer is idiotic and lets the real culprits of the hook. There needs to be a big sytemic change in politics and corporate responsibility ... but since a part of my life is going through pairs of sneakers since I'm bound on sliding them on a wooden plank with sand paper on it, I should stay informed on where to get them sneakers. And if I can afford it, buy them from companies that don't use actual slave labor in something that dangerously resembles concentration camps.
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These are the people making nikes for y’all
https://www.reddit.com/r/gifs/comments/hrpgzt/leaked_drone_footage_of_shackled_and_blindfolded/
(https://i.imgur.com/gJcJW7R.mp4)
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Below is a link to some of the responses from the companies implicated. I was curious about Vans. Their umbrella company, VF, released a statement with North Face, because North Face was identified in the ASPI report.
Generally, the companies articulated that they don't have direct or contractual relationships with the materials mfgers who are using slaves, so the ASPI's findings are incorrect. I'm trying to dig into ASPI's source of info for this, but it leads to a Chinese site that doesn't really work. I'll keep looking.
https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/china-83-major-brands-implicated-in-report-on-forced-labour-of-ethnic-minorities-from-xinjiang-assigned-to-factories-across-provinces-includes-company-responses
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Below is a link to some of the responses from the companies implicated. I was curious about Vans. Their umbrella company, VF, released a statement with North Face, because North Face was identified in the ASPI report.
Generally, the companies articulated that they don't have direct or contractual relationships with the materials mfgers who are using slaves, so the ASPI's findings are incorrect. I'm trying to dig into ASPI's source of info for this, but it leads to a Chinese site that doesn't really work. I'll keep looking.
https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/china-83-major-brands-implicated-in-report-on-forced-labour-of-ethnic-minorities-from-xinjiang-assigned-to-factories-across-provinces-includes-company-responses
Good lookin out. Could all be more smoke and mirrors but the truth will come out over time and as they use as their defense the situation really *is* quite complex. All that said, fuck the PRC.
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People bring up the abhorrent realities of shoe manufacturing, but I seldom see a suggested remedy that accompanies it. What do we as consumers do to change this? Do we exclusively buy New Balances made in the US/ UK? Do we pony up several hundred/ thousand dollars and buy high fashion shoes hand made in Italy/ Paris? It’s always a slippery slope once we start talking about how we’d go about fixing this sort of thing, but if anyone has any practical solutions I’d be more than willing to listen...
Yes.
Really interested: Are NB Numerics produced in England or the US? Apparently New Balance also started producing some of its stuff in China, but I don't know which part of their product line.
numeric is indonesia, i think it would be very cool to have american/uk made skate shoes. just wouldnt be cost effective.
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In a yellow three-storey building in the capital Canberra, so inconspicuous that one could easily miss it, dwells an institute behind plenty of anti-China campaigns in Australia.
It pumps out a “one-sided, pro-American view of the world,” said Bob Carr, former premier of the New South Wales. “I see it as very much the architect of the China threat theory in Australia,” said ex-ambassador to China Geoff Raby.
nike and adidas are definitely doing shady shit bcuz capitalism, but APSI screams imperialism. article pulled from a random source, but it's pretty well-known that "research" from "think tanks" is one large arm of 'murican influencing...
https://www.pmldaily.com/news/2020/06/the-think-tank-behind-anti-china-propaganda-in-australia.html
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In a yellow three-storey building in the capital Canberra, so inconspicuous that one could easily miss it, dwells an institute behind plenty of anti-China campaigns in Australia.
It pumps out a “one-sided, pro-American view of the world,” said Bob Carr, former premier of the New South Wales. “I see it as very much the architect of the China threat theory in Australia,” said ex-ambassador to China Geoff Raby.
nike and adidas are definitely doing shady shit bcuz capitalism, but APSI screams imperialism. article pulled from a random source, but it's pretty well-known that "research" from "think tanks" is one large arm of 'murican influencing...
https://www.pmldaily.com/news/2020/06/the-think-tank-behind-anti-china-propaganda-in-australia.html
You just referenced an article written by THE OFFICIAL STATE-RUN NEWS AGENCY OF THE PRC, Xinhua News. So, that's very much not a random source, and it's pretty ironic that you used it to warn us about propaganda.
Read the ASPI report. If you find issues with the information, dig into it and tell us why it's wrong.
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STFU, all you guys are pussies and don't know what it takes to run a large corporation. $100 bucks says you guys bought something from china within the last 2 months. All you guys can go cancel yourselves
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People bring up the abhorrent realities of shoe manufacturing, but I seldom see a suggested remedy that accompanies it. What do we as consumers do to change this? Do we exclusively buy New Balances made in the US/ UK? Do we pony up several hundred/ thousand dollars and buy high fashion shoes hand made in Italy/ Paris? It’s always a slippery slope once we start talking about how we’d go about fixing this sort of thing, but if anyone has any practical solutions I’d be more than willing to listen...
Yes.
Really interested: Are NB Numerics produced in England or the US? Apparently New Balance also started producing some of its stuff in China, but I don't know which part of their product line.
numeric is indonesia, i think it would be very cool to have american/uk made skate shoes. just wouldnt be cost effective.
Tbh I’d buy some Made In USA NB# if they made them, their other USA/ UK manufactured shoes usually retail between $120-2200. If they could find a way to keep them around $150-$200, I think other ppl would bite the bullet too.
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Below is a link to some of the responses from the companies implicated. I was curious about Vans. Their umbrella company, VF, released a statement with North Face, because North Face was identified in the ASPI report.
Generally, the companies articulated that they don't have direct or contractual relationships with the materials mfgers who are using slaves, so the ASPI's findings are incorrect. I'm trying to dig into ASPI's source of info for this, but it leads to a Chinese site that doesn't really work. I'll keep looking.
https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/china-83-major-brands-implicated-in-report-on-forced-labour-of-ethnic-minorities-from-xinjiang-assigned-to-factories-across-provinces-includes-company-responses
In old school criminal lingo this is called a cut-out. Use a guy who has a guy who has a friend and nobody knows each other. Spicy take but the Kennedy assassination was worked this way.
Late stage capitalism is totally out of fucking control.
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You just referenced an article written by THE OFFICIAL STATE-RUN NEWS AGENCY OF THE PRC, Xinhua News. So, that's very much not a random source, and it's pretty ironic that you used it to warn us about propaganda.
Read the ASPI report. If you find issues with the information, dig into it and tell us why it's wrong.
my comment was aimed at a well-studied global phenomenon, not the specifics of the "report" in question...but i know you know that :)
https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Think_tanks
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10551-018-4007-y
https://www.economist.com/united-states/2003/02/13/the-charge-of-the-think-tanks
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/08/us/politics/think-tanks-research-and-corporate-lobbying.html
http://www.thinktankwatch.com/2012/11/think-tanks-abound-with-former-spies.html
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You just referenced an article written by THE OFFICIAL STATE-RUN NEWS AGENCY OF THE PRC, Xinhua News. So, that's very much not a random source, and it's pretty ironic that you used it to warn us about propaganda.
Read the ASPI report. If you find issues with the information, dig into it and tell us why it's wrong.
my comment was aimed at a well-studied global phenomenon, not the specifics of the "report" in question...but i know you know that :)
https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Think_tanks
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10551-018-4007-y
https://www.economist.com/united-states/2003/02/13/the-charge-of-the-think-tanks
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/08/us/politics/think-tanks-research-and-corporate-lobbying.html
http://www.thinktankwatch.com/2012/11/think-tanks-abound-with-former-spies.html
Yes, think tanks have a tendency to be biased. It's basically their purpose. And their funding sources are usually a good sign of their intentions. Thanks.
Doesn't mean you can't get useful information from them. Just entails some diligent reading and fact checking.
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STFU, all you guys are pussies and don't know what it takes to run a large corporation. $100 bucks says you guys bought something from china within the last 2 months. All you guys can go cancel yourselves
You’re goddamn right I don’t have what it takes to make money off of exploited young women working 12-hour days band being subjected to menstrual checks in sweatshops.
I don’t have the balls to make my money off of destroying the ecosystem we need to survive.
I don’t have the gumption to fire hundreds to the bottom-rung workers so I can collect huge bonuses
And I definitely don’t have the drive to take other’s labor and call it my own, while paying them pennies on the dollar.
PS fuck you.
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STFU, all you guys are pussies and don't know what it takes to run a large corporation. $100 bucks says you guys bought something from china within the last 2 months. All you guys can go cancel yourselves
This guy. He's tough as um balls and he KNOWs what it takes to run a large corporation. $100 bucks dollars monetaryunits says he's bought a handjob in a stripmall massage parlor within the last 2 weeks.
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These are the people making nikes for y’all
https://www.reddit.com/r/gifs/comments/hrpgzt/leaked_drone_footage_of_shackled_and_blindfolded/
(https://i.imgur.com/gJcJW7R.mp4)
2018 video of inmates being moved by train? How is this unique to China?
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These are the people making nikes for y’all
https://www.reddit.com/r/gifs/comments/hrpgzt/leaked_drone_footage_of_shackled_and_blindfolded/
(https://i.imgur.com/gJcJW7R.mp4)
relax, its only a scheduled meeting about nyjah 2 production
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There is some shoes made in italy, Portugal, us and england that are probably 20 to 30 bucks higher than your average dunk or whatever. I will purchase some and see what's skateable and whats not.
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Is this capitalism taking advantage of communism or communism taking advantage of capitalism?
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These are the people making nikes for y’all
https://www.reddit.com/r/gifs/comments/hrpgzt/leaked_drone_footage_of_shackled_and_blindfolded/
(https://i.imgur.com/gJcJW7R.mp4)
relax, its only a scheduled meeting about nyjah 2 production
Oh i get it it's just the daily stand up I remember those
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Is this capitalism taking advantage of communism or communism taking advantage of capitalism?
China is as much a communist country as a vegan menu from Burger King (including fries, a coke and lots of ketchup) is health food.
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Capitalism gives you the choice not to support these companies, stupidity gives you reason to believe supporting them is your only choice
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Capitalism gives you the choice not to support these companies, stupidity gives you reason to believe supporting them is your only choice
Capitalism has not given us the choice of a non-sweatshop skate shoe.
It makes ethical choices extremely rare.
This is the illusion of choice.
Plus, it’s directly fueling the burning of the planet.
Capitalism is so fundamentally flawed, yet we are so indoctrinated to believe it’s the only choice we get posts like this.
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https://youtu.be/jyz5h_CWOzg
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Capitalism gives you the choice not to support these companies, stupidity gives you reason to believe supporting them is your only choice
Capitalism has not given us the choice of a non-sweatshop skate shoe.
It makes ethical choices extremely rare.
This is the illusion of choice.
Plus, it’s directly fueling the burning of the planet.
Capitalism is so fundamentally flawed, yet we are so indoctrinated to believe it’s the only choice we get posts like this.
you still have the choice not to...there's no illusion
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Capitalism gives you the choice not to support these companies, stupidity gives you reason to believe supporting them is your only choice
Capitalism has not given us the choice of a non-sweatshop skate shoe.
It makes ethical choices extremely rare.
This is the illusion of choice.
Plus, it’s directly fueling the burning of the planet.
Capitalism is so fundamentally flawed, yet we are so indoctrinated to believe it’s the only choice we get posts like this.
“Skate shoe” you can wear any shoe and still skate
There are ethical shoe companies out in the world support them give them your money and give them feedback show them “skaters” are supporting them maybe if they still want “skaters” money the ethical shoe company will make “skate shoes”
Or start your own “skate shoe” company that holds up to your ethics and make bank and be the first in this hip new niche market
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Some of the responses of the companies on that page leave a lot to be desired. I imagine the conversations went something like this..
Company X *ring ring*
China based textiles company : "hello"
Company X : "just checking in, can you confirm there is no slave labour being used in the supply chain"
China based textiles company : "There is not"
Company X : "Fantastic, we'll let the world know. Bye"
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Capitalism gives you the choice not to support these companies, stupidity gives you reason to believe supporting them is your only choice
Capitalism has not given us the choice of a non-sweatshop skate shoe.
It makes ethical choices extremely rare.
This is the illusion of choice.
Plus, it’s directly fueling the burning of the planet.
Capitalism is so fundamentally flawed, yet we are so indoctrinated to believe it’s the only choice we get posts like this.
There are ethical shoe companies out in the world support them give them your money and give them feedback show them “skaters” are supporting them maybe if they still want “skaters” money the ethical shoe company will make “skate shoes”
Or start your own “skate shoe” company that holds up to your ethics and make bank and be the first in this hip new niche market
Jesus fuck you are dense. I’m dealing with other shit right now, so I can’t give you a calm, rational answer you your fucking stupid, trolling question.
I think you already know why there will never be an ethical shoe, but you are too fucking unethical to admit it.
I’ll go to time out until I’m better.
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These are the people making nikes for y’all
https://www.reddit.com/r/gifs/comments/hrpgzt/leaked_drone_footage_of_shackled_and_blindfolded/
(https://i.imgur.com/gJcJW7R.mp4)
Can you shut the fuck up already, you seem to have an agenda. Why do you keep bringing the US into an issue specific to China?
As fucked up as the prison industrial complex is in the US, these are not just inmates. These are people who were persecuted for their religion, race, or political opinions. People who have been arrested and trialed in a private court, in a country that does not allow freedom of expression and press, and does not practice democracy.
It's not just inmates being moved by train, how daft can you be? Of course the US has its problems with systems that are disadvantageous for minority groups, the looming threat of police and the law being discriminate and harsh on you is terrible. However, these people do not suffer from a system that disadvantages them, the system rids of them with autocratic force, without reason or trial. Don't try to downplay the issues faced by the Uygurs in China by saying it's common occurrence in other countries, because in majority of the western world it isn't, you're being just as dismissive as whites that claim they suffer as well to minority groups, it's not about you for once.
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These are the people making nikes for y’all
https://www.reddit.com/r/gifs/comments/hrpgzt/leaked_drone_footage_of_shackled_and_blindfolded/
(https://i.imgur.com/gJcJW7R.mp4)
Can you shut the fuck up already, you seem to have an agenda. Why do you keep bringing the US into an issue specific to China?
As fucked up as the prison industrial complex is in the US, these are not just inmates. These are people who were persecuted for their religion, race, or political opinions. People who have been arrested and trialed in a private court, in a country that does not allow freedom of expression and press, and does not practice democracy.
It's not just inmates being moved by train, how daft can you be? Of course the US has its problems with systems that are disadvantageous for minority groups, the looming threat of police and the law being discriminate and harsh on you is terrible. However, these people do not suffer from a system that disadvantages them, the system rids of them with autocratic force, without reason or trial. Don't try to downplay the issues faced by the Uygurs in China by saying it's common occurrence in other countries, because in majority of the western world it isn't, you're being just as dismissive as whites that claim they suffer as well to minority groups, it's not about you for once.
Of course I have an agenda. You do too, whether you are aware of it or not.
US politicians, led by conservatives and centrist democrats, (famous for championing causes of Islamic peoples worldwide?) cheerlead for a multilateral trade war, levy sanctions designed to pressure both Chinese corporations and citizens-with the hope of triggering full on hot conflict so as to...protect human rights of Uyghur Muslims?
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Glad this thread is here.
Skate shoes produced in the US would probably cost around $175 retail. If they could come up with sidewall and outsole compounds (just thinking cupsoles here rn) that lasted a long time it could perhaps help the consumer justify the expense, but that would likely also raise the price above $200.
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Capitalism gives you the choice not to support these companies, stupidity gives you reason to believe supporting them is your only choice
Capitalism has not given us the choice of a non-sweatshop skate shoe.
It makes ethical choices extremely rare.
This is the illusion of choice.
Plus, it’s directly fueling the burning of the planet.
Capitalism is so fundamentally flawed, yet we are so indoctrinated to believe it’s the only choice we get posts like this.
There are ethical shoe companies out in the world support them give them your money and give them feedback show them “skaters” are supporting them maybe if they still want “skaters” money the ethical shoe company will make “skate shoes”
Or start your own “skate shoe” company that holds up to your ethics and make bank and be the first in this hip new niche market
Jesus fuck you are dense. I’m dealing with other shit right now, so I can’t give you a calm, rational answer you your fucking stupid, trolling question.
I think you already know why there will never be an ethical shoe, but you are too fucking unethical to admit it.
I’ll go to time out until I’m better.
Lol we are all dealing with other shit right now, not sure why you have to bring up your personal emotional unstableness to a skateboarding forum. Way to cop out
But when you turn to name calling and bullying you really have no argument. With a attitude like yours, you are right nothing will change.
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These are the people making nikes for y’all
https://www.reddit.com/r/gifs/comments/hrpgzt/leaked_drone_footage_of_shackled_and_blindfolded/
(https://i.imgur.com/gJcJW7R.mp4)
Can you shut the fuck up already, you seem to have an agenda. Why do you keep bringing the US into an issue specific to China?
As fucked up as the prison industrial complex is in the US, these are not just inmates. These are people who were persecuted for their religion, race, or political opinions. People who have been arrested and trialed in a private court, in a country that does not allow freedom of expression and press, and does not practice democracy.
It's not just inmates being moved by train, how daft can you be? Of course the US has its problems with systems that are disadvantageous for minority groups, the looming threat of police and the law being discriminate and harsh on you is terrible. However, these people do not suffer from a system that disadvantages them, the system rids of them with autocratic force, without reason or trial. Don't try to downplay the issues faced by the Uygurs in China by saying it's common occurrence in other countries, because in majority of the western world it isn't, you're being just as dismissive as whites that claim they suffer as well to minority groups, it's not about you for once.
US politicians, led by conservatives and centrist democrats, (famous for championing causes of Islamic peoples worldwide?) cheerlead for a multilateral trade war, levy sanctions designed to pressure both Chinese corporations and citizens-with the hope of triggering full on hot conflict so as to...protect human rights of Uyghur Muslims?
Yeah cause without the US ‘s involvement, China would be fine not violating anyone’s rights for thousands of years
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These are the people making nikes for y’all
https://www.reddit.com/r/gifs/comments/hrpgzt/leaked_drone_footage_of_shackled_and_blindfolded/
(https://i.imgur.com/gJcJW7R.mp4)
Can you shut the fuck up already, you seem to have an agenda. Why do you keep bringing the US into an issue specific to China?
As fucked up as the prison industrial complex is in the US, these are not just inmates. These are people who were persecuted for their religion, race, or political opinions. People who have been arrested and trialed in a private court, in a country that does not allow freedom of expression and press, and does not practice democracy.
It's not just inmates being moved by train, how daft can you be? Of course the US has its problems with systems that are disadvantageous for minority groups, the looming threat of police and the law being discriminate and harsh on you is terrible. However, these people do not suffer from a system that disadvantages them, the system rids of them with autocratic force, without reason or trial. Don't try to downplay the issues faced by the Uygurs in China by saying it's common occurrence in other countries, because in majority of the western world it isn't, you're being just as dismissive as whites that claim they suffer as well to minority groups, it's not about you for once.
US politicians, led by conservatives and centrist democrats, (famous for championing causes of Islamic peoples worldwide?) cheerlead for a multilateral trade war, levy sanctions designed to pressure both Chinese corporations and citizens-with the hope of triggering full on hot conflict so as to...protect human rights of Uyghur Muslims?
What's the point of your post? Again you're looking at this from the perspective of the US, not all Slap posters are from the US and the world doesn't revolve around the position you believe your country should take/is taking.
Whether you think reasoning for the recent spotlight on the Uygur people is due to motivations regarding trade (which I don't disagree with in whole), it doesn't take away from the fact that these people have suffered for decades. It just so happens that there's now global awareness of the issue, and more people are becoming aware of the human rights violations (systematic kidnapping, brainwashing, organ harvesting, slave labor, sex trafficking, closed/private trials) of minority groups in China.
This is not something new, the Tibet people have faced the same oppression, so have those who practice Falun Gong, or those who voice political opposition to the Peoples Republic of China. Just for protesting or making comments critical of their own political system, people face discriminate handling that would cause uproars in any developed Western country. You have all this, and yet there are people like you that actively red herring these issues and fixate the topic on your own country and its political climate. I would be equally critical of people doing the exact thing you're doing, but with issues specific to the US and its discriminatory handling of minority groups, and the slave labor that still exists through the prison system. If someone tries to downplay the issues at hand in the US with poor reasoning that discrimination or suffering is happening elsewhere or to themselves as well, I would be equally critical of their reasoning for doing so and their motivations.
You bring absolutely no depth to the conversation, the only thing you're achieving is the desensitization of the issue by downplaying the suffering and corruption happening in another country as something trivial. I believe either you don't understand the severity of PRoC and their autocratic regime, or of the bullying faced by neighboring countries (China marching into Indian borders https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53061476 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53061476), Hong Kong's national security law imposed by Beijing https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/07/chinas-national-security-law-in-hong-kong-hk-details-new-powers.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/07/chinas-national-security-law-in-hong-kong-hk-details-new-powers.html)).
I do have an agenda as you say, but my agenda is a lot more clean and honest than the one you have. My agenda is to open up a constructive discussion that brings awareness regarding the specific human rights violations going on in China, and hopefully allowing people to discuss ways of helping the issues at hand. Your agenda on the other hand, unless you address it yourself, I question it because your only addition to the discussion at hand has been to change focus of the discussion or topic. I also believe your rhetoric is in line with some type of ideologue thinking, but who knows.
The world came together for those suffering from systematic racism in the US in the past few months, and there has been global support for the reform of the police state and privatized prison systems in America. However, it seems you can't return the same acknowledgement and awareness to issues faced outside of your own countries border, this makes me question your lack of reasoning and empathy. If you think the US is bad, acknowledge that China is just as bad if not worse, at least you have the freedom to express your distrust in your system without the threat of being held accountable with imprisonment or death. I have friends in Hong Kong, friends in India, friends in Taiwan, friends in China, and I myself live in Japan. Our experienced threat by PRoC is real, especially for my friends currently in Hong Kong. I love Chinese people and culture, but I am purely critical of their political regime.
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Can you shut the fuck up already, you seem to have an agenda. Why do you keep bringing the US into an issue specific to China?
As fucked up as the prison industrial complex is in the US, these are not just inmates. These are people who were persecuted for their religion, race, or political opinions. People who have been arrested and trialed in a private court, in a country that does not allow freedom of expression and press, and does not practice democracy.
It's not just inmates being moved by train, how daft can you be? Of course the US has its problems with systems that are disadvantageous for minority groups, the looming threat of police and the law being discriminate and harsh on you is terrible. However, these people do not suffer from a system that disadvantages them, the system rids of them with autocratic force, without reason or trial. Don't try to downplay the issues faced by the Uygurs in China by saying it's common occurrence in other countries, because in majority of the western world it isn't, you're being just as dismissive as whites that claim they suffer as well to minority groups, it's not about you for once.
damn well said dude
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I mention the United States because they are the leaders of the global community exerting pressure on China & using HK/Uyghur issues as a cudgel to exact trade concessions, not human rights improvements.
Anyone interested in human rights should be interested in accurate information. I would challenge anyone comfortable speaking in definitive terms to examine the sources and reporting they consider evidence (e.g. BBC/CNBC function effectively as state controlled media.)
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Everyone writing this off should be ashamed. “Duh it would be hippocritcal if me to be mad duh, because my computer is uh made in China”
This is pretty transparent. China allows and provides slaves to make products for large companies. We can make a difference if we start small and stop supporting this. The only thing that resembles capitalism in this scenario is that money is exchanged for goods. I don’t care where you land on the political spectrum. You should be outraged and angry at this.
i was outraged and angry and then i realized i still needed to have breakfast. i'll write amnesty international a letter this afternoon relax
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i'm finding it hard to tell who's here from 4chan and who's from reddit i shouldn't have posted here
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I mention the United States because they are the leaders of the global community exerting pressure on China & using HK/Uyghur issues as a cudgel to exact trade concessions, not human rights improvements.
Anyone interested in human rights should be interested in accurate information. I would challenge anyone comfortable speaking in definitive terms to examine the sources and reporting they consider evidence (e.g. BBC/CNBC function effectively as state controlled media.)
I think I've invested enough time responding to your posts, again you haven't added anything to the discussion aside from the dismissal of these issues with "America wants better trade leverage". I have been following the treatment of the Uygur people by China for 10 years, this is not some issue that recently popped up, it is not some conspiracy leverage trade.
Your only take back from my post is questioning the linked articles for its published source, I'm convinced no matter what source I list you'd not find them credible. Also, state controlled/funded media does not diminish the credibility of a publishing source, are you arguing that privatized media is then more credible? If you want you can list me some of your trusted information sources of why these issues are exaggerated, I'll be sure to keep an open mind and my friends in HK and India would be very interested if you have them. If you ever bother to read/research into the topics I've previously listed, I think you'll come to know how poor your understanding of reality is. You might find the world consists of more than China and the US, the political climate in Asia is different from what you know of and our lived experiences and issues are very real.
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Nike’s current advertising campaign that purports to support human rights is pretty fucking sickening considering they use slave labour to make their products. In one shot, they frame a little girl skating in a burka split against Leo Baker skating with a pride flag. Like, it’s cool you guys wanna support lgbtq people, but that support is directly linked to the enslavement of people just like the little girl skating in the burka.
Frankly, I’d respect the company more if their next campaign was just Ronald McDonald clubbing a baby seal to death, and the slogan was “Nike: fuck you, that’s why.”
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Nike’s current advertising campaign that purports to support human rights is pretty fucking sickening considering they use slave labour to make their products. In one shot, they frame a little girl skating in a burka split against Leo Baker skating with a pride flag. Like, it’s cool you guys wanna support lgbtq people, but that support is directly linked to the enslavement of people just like the little girl skating in the burka.
Frankly, I’d respect the company more if their next campaign was just Ronald McDonald clubbing a baby seal to death, and the slogan was “Nike: fuck you, that’s why.”
I've mentioned it elsewhere, but I DM'd Leo Baker, Brian Anderson and Alexis Sablone about this. In each case I sent one polite DM explaining the situation, with referencing, and then followed up with 3/4 others, at weekly-ish intervals, asking them to react. The last DM was this:
Hi Alexis/Leo/Brian, I hope you are well. I just wanted to follow up with you about this (and this is the last time I'll do so). Basically, Nike are using forced Uighur labour in Xinjiang. (See above.) It's incredibly serious. And I'm addressing you because you are a major civil rights ambassador for Nike Inc. I don't think American civil rights can be bought with Uighur human rights. Please read and respond to this. Best, etc
I've had no reactions from any of these people and until they stop shilling for these cunts I have no respect for any of them.
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I feel you, but I also feel conflicted about holding a negative opinion of the team riders because I am not sure to what extent they can be held accountable for the actions of their employers. Similarly, if I buy the products they endorse so I can play on a wooden toy, to what degree am I culpable? Whatever. I appreciate your effort.
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I feel you, but I also feel conflicted about holding a negative opinion of the team riders because I am not sure to what extent they can be held accountable for the actions of their employers. Similarly, if I buy the products they endorse so I can play on a wooden toy, to what degree am I culpable? Whatever. I appreciate your effort.
I'm a big fan of their skating, especially BA, but feel no such conflict. They are not merely employees; they are ambassadors for this company and public promoters of its "civil rights" branding campaign. Their privileged lives are being funded by Uighur slavery. Lots of people give up comfortable jobs for ethical reasons. These cunts haven't. Just following orders.
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Nike’s current advertising campaign that purports to support human rights is pretty fucking sickening considering they use slave labour to make their products. In one shot, they frame a little girl skating in a burka split against Leo Baker skating with a pride flag. Like, it’s cool you guys wanna support lgbtq people, but that support is directly linked to the enslavement of people just like the little girl skating in the burka.
Frankly, I’d respect the company more if their next campaign was just Ronald McDonald clubbing a baby seal to death, and the slogan was “Nike: fuck you, that’s why.”
It’s just image and branding. They’d dog fighting and scootering if they thought it would make them more money.
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There is no ethical consumption under capitalism. This doesn't exonerate people from spending their dollars thoughtfully, but it is important to remember.
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I feel you, but I also feel conflicted about holding a negative opinion of the team riders because I am not sure to what extent they can be held accountable for the actions of their employers. Similarly, if I buy the products they endorse so I can play on a wooden toy, to what degree am I culpable? Whatever. I appreciate your effort.
I'm a big fan of their skating, especially BA, but feel no such conflict. They are not merely employees; they are ambassadors for this company and public promoters of its "civil rights" branding campaign. Their privileged lives are being funded by Uighur slavery. Lots of people give up comfortable jobs for ethical reasons. These cunts haven't. Just following orders.
Yeah, BA has been a fav of mine since I saw Welcome to Hell, so admiration has probably made me reluctant to feel negatively toward him in particular. I’m beginning to see how that might make me part of the problem.
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There is no ethical consumption under capitalism. This doesn't exonerate people from spending their dollars thoughtfully, but it is important to remember.
Is it possibly truer to say that any relativistic generalisation expressed about a specific case gives people the opportunity to ignore that specific case?
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fred, u engage in oppression just by existing in a capitalistic society
so stop throwing stones and go buy a pair of vejas and show off ur privilege
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fred, u engage in oppression just by existing in a capitalistic society
so stop throwing stones and go buy a pair of vejas and show off ur privilege
Wait, do you want I should exist and oppress, or wear Vejas and pitch rocks? I’m confused.
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fred, u engage in oppression just by existing in a capitalistic society
so stop throwing stones and go buy a pair of vejas and show off ur privilege
I can't afford a pair of Vejas because I've actively cost myself money it would have been easier to just sit back and take, so I'm not suggesting any of your mates or heroes do anything I'm not doing myself right now. Throw your fucking pebbles elsewhere, cornball.
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My new Tyshawns skate great. Thanks Uyghur Muslims!
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Bob Marley in Hell. Powerful image. Powerful.
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I'm a bit stupid when it comes to economics. And don't know where to begin learning. But is it even possible to have a product made that is 'affordable' to us without the use of some nasty underpaid labor being involved?
Not backing slave labor btw. We mostly grow up in a world where a large amount of goods in front of us are products of both land/environment and people being heavily exploited.
It makes me feel helpless and I have yet to come to a conclusion about how to tackle this.
Pontus Alv's new shoe company, Last Resort AB, seems to be combating this issue somewhat. Obviously it will be skater owned and I think the shoes will be manufactured in Portugal. I'm no expert but from my understanding Portugal's shoe manufacturing industry has been on the rise lately.
They apparently have better craftsmanship and working conditions than their Asian counterparts right now. They still basically get paid the federal minimum but I guess that's better than literal slave labor.
Like I said I'm no expert but Portugal manufacturing seems like a much better option right now. Last Resort is supposed to be coming soon so we'll have to see how affordable they are but Pontus has said that they would be. I'm hoping the shoes are good and affordable because even small skater owned brands like State are made in china because they feel they have to in order to compete.
Edit: Never mind Last Resort are made in Vietnam.... God damn it Pontus.
There's no footwear factories in Portugal that do the vulcanisation process. Thats what Pontus told me when I reached out to know a bit more about Last Resort... I believe him because I remember reading about that issue a few years ago when a old traditional vulc Portuguese brand from the 70's (called Sanjo) had to produce their stuff in Asia because no one did Vulc in PT. Also for something with such a low quantity behind would probably mean retail of 100+ euros to produce in Portugal unfortunately.
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https://www.instagram.com/p/CBn6OXvDEJ_/
according to this insta post from the member of the EU parliament leading the effort to get brands to stop using uyghur slave labor, Adidas was the first brand that committed to cutting ties with offending suppliers. not to say that their stuff is ethical, but at least it's something.
notably it seems that Nike is the most recalcitrant of the brands. they seem to have zero intention of even doing any lip service to avoiding the exploitation of uyghurs.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CCbCvDzDz5g/
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Wild. A company that was built with Nazi gold and used slave labour in world war 2 to supply the wermacht has somehow taken the moral and ethical high ground.
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Now if only they could make a pair of shoes that were even one tenth as good as they look...
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One day, I hope all of the woke fucktards who promote and represent nike realize they are complicit in a slave operation.
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Fuck nike and adidas. People need to know about this. Big corporations shouldn't be in skateboarding anyway.
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https://www.highsnobiety.com/p/nike-xinjiang-forced-labor-bill/
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I've worn Cons for several years and stopped because of this.
I'm wearing State now. They are also made in China but at least it's skater owned...
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Wild. A company that was built with Nazi gold and used slave labour in world war 2 to supply the wermacht has somehow taken the moral and ethical high ground.
Imagine how bad the shit in China must be if this happened. The CCP is also giving out tons of loans / investing in Africa right now and we can assume it’s not for the purpose of making sure all the locals get free Nyjah 2’s. Their government has no problem enslaving and disappearing its own people.
This doesn’t even take into account the widespread organ harvesting that goes on and how they have basically no waiting list for organ transplants there. There’s something like a two week wait for a heart transplant which is amazing considering you have to know where the heart is coming from to schedule a transplant date...
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you dudes are gonna freak when you find out where the cobalt in your iphones come from
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Wild. A company that was built with Nazi gold and used slave labour in world war 2 to supply the wermacht has somehow taken the moral and ethical high ground.
Imagine how bad the shit in China must be if this happened. The CCP is also giving out tons of loans / investing in Africa right now and we can assume it’s not for the purpose of making sure all the locals get free Nyjah 2’s. Their government has no problem enslaving and disappearing its own people.
This doesn’t even take into account the widespread organ harvesting that goes on and how they have basically no waiting list for organ transplants there. There’s something like a two week wait for a heart transplant which is amazing considering you have to know where the heart is coming from to schedule a transplant date...
They’re coming to Africa to take land, resources like ore and gold, and recolonization just repeats itself.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Uf4LfnlVwtE&t=32s
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BLuvYZt-RBI&t=100s
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you dudes are gonna freak when you find out where the cobalt in your iphones come from
over half of the worlds supply comes from Africa. Specifically the Congo
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you dudes are gonna freak when you find out where the cobalt in your iphones come from
my point was more like there is no ethical consumption under capitalism
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you dudes are gonna freak when you find out where the cobalt in your iphones come from
my point was more like there is no ethical consumption under capitalism
Here we go, again. Everybody, back in the pile!
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i am the debate master, who dare challenge me
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you dudes are gonna freak when you find out where the cobalt in your iphones come from
my point was more like there is no ethical consumption under capitalism
Here we go, again. Everybody, back in the pile!
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Capitalism gives you the choice not to support these companies, stupidity gives you reason to believe supporting them is your only choice
Capitalism has not given us the choice of a non-sweatshop skate shoe.
It makes ethical choices extremely rare.
This is the illusion of choice.
Plus, it’s directly fueling the burning of the planet.
Capitalism is so fundamentally flawed, yet we are so indoctrinated to believe it’s the only choice we get posts like this.
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This thread bums me out. I always thought of skateboarding as sort of anti the system but it seems like that's not always the case. People are actually defending slave labor and saying everything sucks so who cares. That is the essence of: no ethical consumption under capitalism.
These are human beings just like you and me. Forced to give up their hopes and dreams. Tortured, indoctrinated, forced to work, and having their bodies subject to unwanted medical procedures. Can you even imagine what that must be like? I can't. Its unconscionable.
I get it, when you start piling up all the horrible shit in the world, it's hard to think you can effect change. But to me, it's about my own conscience.
Can I really enjoying skating a pair of shoes made by an actual slave? Ask yourself that question. If you can, and you don't care, I worry about you.
What's the answer? I don't know. Hopefully, Last Resort isn't using by slave labor. Maybe I'll switch to them. NB is made in Indonesia, I don't think they are using slaves either.
There is no clear global solution right now. In fact Nike is pushing to keep using slaves and lobbying Congress to make sure laws aren't passed to restrict it.
All I know is that I don't want to support it.
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if you want to divorce yourself from exploiting the global south to make your shit you have a lot further to go then switching from uighur slaves to indonesian slaves tbh
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if you want to divorce yourself from exploiting the global south to make your shit you have a lot further to go then switching from uighur slaves to indonesian slaves tbh
I know that Nike and Adidas are using slaves labor. I can't in good conscience support them anymore. I started looking here: https://goodonyou.eco/about/
New balance is better than Nike or Adidas but still not the best. Cariuma is near the top of the list but Slap has convinced me they are a front for scientology so...
Edit: I don't know that the site above is totally accurate. Also, I don't want to imply that all labor in Asia is slavery. I work for a company that manufactures in Taiwan and it's definitely not run by slaves. You can produce ethically there, it just costs more money.
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if you want to divorce yourself from exploiting the global south to make your shit you have a lot further to go then switching from uighur slaves to indonesian slaves tbh
I know that Nike and Adidas are using slaves labor. I can't in good conscience support them anymore. I started looking here: https://goodonyou.eco/about/
New balance is better than Nike or Adidas but still not the best. Cariuma is near the top of the list but Slap has convinced me they are a front for scientology so...
cool, next up is the agricultural holocaust in your fridge, the conflict minerals in your phone etc.
edit: to be clear, i’m not saying don’t boycott the shit- there’s mad things i don’t do/will not pay for for moral/ethical reasons. but to suddenly have a weird conviction for labor practices in this one highly specific instance (and only when a foreign country does it) leaves a bad taste in my mouth
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if you want to divorce yourself from exploiting the global south to make your shit you have a lot further to go then switching from uighur slaves to indonesian slaves tbh
I know that Nike and Adidas are using slaves labor. I can't in good conscience support them anymore. I started looking here: https://goodonyou.eco/about/
New balance is better than Nike or Adidas but still not the best. Cariuma is near the top of the list but Slap has convinced me they are a front for scientology so...
cool, next up is the agricultural holocaust in your fridge, the conflict minerals in your phone etc.
Cool, so we should give up.
Here's a phone that is more ethical than other options: https://www.fairphone.com/en/
And if you're worried about agriculture, go vegan and eat local, seasonal food.
It's not about getting to the finish line right off the bat. Progess takes takes time and we have to start somewhere.
I'd rather not throw my hands up and give up right away. You'd think skateboarding taught us to keep trying.
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if you want to divorce yourself from exploiting the global south to make your shit you have a lot further to go then switching from uighur slaves to indonesian slaves tbh
I know that Nike and Adidas are using slaves labor. I can't in good conscience support them anymore. I started looking here: https://goodonyou.eco/about/
New balance is better than Nike or Adidas but still not the best. Cariuma is near the top of the list but Slap has convinced me they are a front for scientology so...
Edit: I don't know that the site above is totally accurate. Also, I don't want to imply that all labor in Asia is slavery. I work for a company that manufactures in Taiwan and it's definitely not run by slaves. You can produce ethically there, it just costs more money.
None of those companies sell skate shoes.... In my eyes.
Lakai, Emerica , State, Last Resort..... There's no reason to buy any of them brands
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if you want to divorce yourself from exploiting the global south to make your shit you have a lot further to go then switching from uighur slaves to indonesian slaves tbh
I know that Nike and Adidas are using slaves labor. I can't in good conscience support them anymore. I started looking here: https://goodonyou.eco/about/
New balance is better than Nike or Adidas but still not the best. Cariuma is near the top of the list but Slap has convinced me they are a front for scientology so...
cool, next up is the agricultural holocaust in your fridge, the conflict minerals in your phone etc.
edit: to be clear, i’m not saying don’t boycott the shit- there’s mad things i don’t do/will not pay for for moral/ethical reasons. but to suddenly have a weird conviction for labor practices in this one highly specific instance (and only when a foreign country does it) leaves a bad taste in my mouth
Thanks for clarifying. I'll say personally, this is not the only case where I'm putting my money where my mouth is. There are plenty of companies I don't buy from for ethical reasons. I was just focused on the skateboarding side in this thread to keep focused.
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if you want to divorce yourself from exploiting the global south to make your shit you have a lot further to go then switching from uighur slaves to indonesian slaves tbh
I know that Nike and Adidas are using slaves labor. I can't in good conscience support them anymore. I started looking here: https://goodonyou.eco/about/
New balance is better than Nike or Adidas but still not the best. Cariuma is near the top of the list but Slap has convinced me they are a front for scientology so...
Edit: I don't know that the site above is totally accurate. Also, I don't want to imply that all labor in Asia is slavery. I work for a company that manufactures in Taiwan and it's definitely not run by slaves. You can produce ethically there, it just costs more money.
None of those companies sell skate shoes.... In my eyes.
Lakai, Emerica , State, Last Resort..... There's no reason to buy any of them brands
True. I'm personally waiting for Last Resort to make a size 13 and I want to try the Lakai Telford's when they come out.
Honestly, I have some experience with overseas manufacturing and what I've found is that smaller companies that make less products always seem to have a cleaner supply chain than large corporations. That's why I'm willing to support the smaller players in our space.
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if you want to divorce yourself from exploiting the global south to make your shit you have a lot further to go then switching from uighur slaves to indonesian slaves tbh
I know that Nike and Adidas are using slaves labor. I can't in good conscience support them anymore. I started looking here: https://goodonyou.eco/about/
New balance is better than Nike or Adidas but still not the best. Cariuma is near the top of the list but Slap has convinced me they are a front for scientology so...
cool, next up is the agricultural holocaust in your fridge, the conflict minerals in your phone etc.
Cool, so we should give up.
Here's a phone that is more ethical than other options: https://www.fairphone.com/en/
And if you're worried about agriculture, go vegan and eat local, seasonal food.
It's not about getting to the finish line right off the bat. Progess takes takes time and we have to start somewhere.
I'd rather not throw my hands up and give up right away. You'd think skateboarding taught us to keep trying.
there’s a lot of things i choose to go without on a daily basis- i refrain from being preachy as i understand it is ultimately a losing battle in the face of a post industrial world.
again, boycotting is fine, but if you aren’t going to attempt consistency there’s not much a point
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if you want to divorce yourself from exploiting the global south to make your shit you have a lot further to go then switching from uighur slaves to indonesian slaves tbh
I know that Nike and Adidas are using slaves labor. I can't in good conscience support them anymore. I started looking here: https://goodonyou.eco/about/
New balance is better than Nike or Adidas but still not the best. Cariuma is near the top of the list but Slap has convinced me they are a front for scientology so...
cool, next up is the agricultural holocaust in your fridge, the conflict minerals in your phone etc.
Cool, so we should give up.
Here's a phone that is more ethical than other options: https://www.fairphone.com/en/
And if you're worried about agriculture, go vegan and eat local, seasonal food.
It's not about getting to the finish line right off the bat. Progess takes takes time and we have to start somewhere.
I'd rather not throw my hands up and give up right away. You'd think skateboarding taught us to keep trying.
there’s a lot of things i choose to go without on a daily basis- i refrain from being preachy as i understand it is ultimately a losing battle in the face of a post industrial world.
again, boycotting is fine, but if you aren’t going to attempt consistency there’s not much a point
I'm so confused by this stance. So never speak up or call out atrocities that are committed? Is that the idea? Just hope to die one day thinking, "Well, thank god no one thought I was preachy."
Shouldn't we try to do better?
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if you want to divorce yourself from exploiting the global south to make your shit you have a lot further to go then switching from uighur slaves to indonesian slaves tbh
I know that Nike and Adidas are using slaves labor. I can't in good conscience support them anymore. I started looking here: https://goodonyou.eco/about/
New balance is better than Nike or Adidas but still not the best. Cariuma is near the top of the list but Slap has convinced me they are a front for scientology so...
cool, next up is the agricultural holocaust in your fridge, the conflict minerals in your phone etc.
Cool, so we should give up.
Here's a phone that is more ethical than other options: https://www.fairphone.com/en/
And if you're worried about agriculture, go vegan and eat local, seasonal food.
It's not about getting to the finish line right off the bat. Progess takes takes time and we have to start somewhere.
I'd rather not throw my hands up and give up right away. You'd think skateboarding taught us to keep trying.
there’s a lot of things i choose to go without on a daily basis- i refrain from being preachy as i understand it is ultimately a losing battle in the face of a post industrial world.
again, boycotting is fine, but if you aren’t going to attempt consistency there’s not much a point
I'm so confused by this stance. So never speak up or call out atrocities that are committed? Is that the idea? Just hope to die one day thinking, "Well, thank god no one thought I was preachy."
Shouldn't we try to do better?
what does “trying to do better” look like to you outside of calling out one specific countries treatment of the global south for its skateboarding footwear division
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This thread bums me out. I always thought of skateboarding as sort of anti the system but it seems like that's not always the case. People are actually defending slave labor and saying everything sucks so who cares. That is the essence of: no ethical consumption under capitalism.
These are human beings just like you and me. Forced to give up their hopes and dreams. Tortured, indoctrinated, forced to work, and having their bodies subject to unwanted medical procedures. Can you even imagine what that must be like? I can't. Its unconscionable.
I get it, when you start piling up all the horrible shit in the world, it's hard to think you can effect change. But to me, it's about my own conscience.
Can I really enjoying skating a pair of shoes made by an actual slave? Ask yourself that question. If you can, and you don't care, I worry about you.
What's the answer? I don't know. Hopefully, Last Resort isn't using by slave labor. Maybe I'll switch to them. NB is made in Indonesia, I don't think they are using slaves either.
There is no clear global solution right now. In fact Nike is pushing to keep using slaves and lobbying Congress to make sure laws aren't passed to restrict it.
All I know is that I don't want to support it.
well said.
I'm Vans loyal and hope they practice humane manufacturing. I had this conversation about Vans with a Pal not too long ago and we couldn't find any evidence of slave labor, I just hope we looked deep enough.
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This thread bums me out. I always thought of skateboarding as sort of anti the system but it seems like that's not always the case. People are actually defending slave labor and saying everything sucks so who cares. That is the essence of: no ethical consumption under capitalism.
These are human beings just like you and me. Forced to give up their hopes and dreams. Tortured, indoctrinated, forced to work, and having their bodies subject to unwanted medical procedures. Can you even imagine what that must be like? I can't. Its unconscionable.
I get it, when you start piling up all the horrible shit in the world, it's hard to think you can effect change. But to me, it's about my own conscience.
Can I really enjoying skating a pair of shoes made by an actual slave? Ask yourself that question. If you can, and you don't care, I worry about you.
What's the answer? I don't know. Hopefully, Last Resort isn't using by slave labor. Maybe I'll switch to them. NB is made in Indonesia, I don't think they are using slaves either.
There is no clear global solution right now. In fact Nike is pushing to keep using slaves and lobbying Congress to make sure laws aren't passed to restrict it.
All I know is that I don't want to support it.
well said.
I'm Vans loyal and hope they practice humane manufacturing. I had this conversation about Vans with a Pal not too long ago and we couldn't find any evidence of slave labor, I just hope we looked deep enough.
if they’re competitively priced someone’s getting fucked somewhere in that supply chain, rest assured lol
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Nike. Take a hike!
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you dudes are gonna freak when you find out where the cobalt in your iphones come from
my point was more like there is no ethical consumption under capitalism
www.fairphone.com
Got mine two weeks ago because my second-hand iPhone battery died and Apple didn't want to replace it because it was not a genuine part.
I love it so far !
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It is better to incur a mild rebuke than to perform an onerous task
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/24/jewish-leaders-use-holocaust-day-to-decry-persecution-of-uighurs
BA, Olson, Sablone, Baker, will all say they didn't know.
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their blood is on YOUR HANDS brian anderson
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/24/jewish-leaders-use-holocaust-day-to-decry-persecution-of-uighurs
BA, Olson, Sablone, Baker, will all say they didn't know.
and KB will be the only one who actually didn’t know
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damn didn’t know slap was a CIA suckfest lol
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damn didn’t know slap was a CIA suckfest lol
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/8suEiru91IBEZh4I-Vn56fxHPFh9jW97lI6KrE9_0yNk-nusKgeGut5RPo3tl8eTDUe1zv5C34LmXQDuZ9u58b8)
?
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Ok it’s kinda crazy to think that some of the poc skaters on Nike are descendants of slaves and now they have shoes with their names on them... that are made by slaves. Wild
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Ok it’s kinda crazy to think that some of the poc skaters on Nike are descendants of slaves and now they have shoes with their names on them... that are made by slaves. Wild
is that you in your sig cause ur a clown
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Ok it’s kinda crazy to think that some of the poc skaters on Nike are descendants of slaves and now they have shoes with their names on them... that are made by slaves. Wild
is that you in your sig cause ur a clown
it’s Jeff King fool
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Ok it’s kinda crazy to think that some of the poc skaters on Nike are descendants of slaves and now they have shoes with their names on them... that are made by slaves. Wild
Agreed.
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While I'm not supporting the companies, these atrocity stories are state department fabrications. Please don't forget who is teaching you this stuff.
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What's especially disgusting is the fight put up by Nike and Apple against the anti slavery legislation. They know they are being bad and aren't hiding it.
Also, while I'm here I wanna put these things out there:
-the brunt of the responsibility to change practices under capitalism lies with govs and corpos, not individual consumers making choices or "voting with their $" we can only choose what is available, and like others have said... no true ethical choices.
-America is absolutely guilty of encouraging China to enter global trade and benefitting from their developments as a major trade partner, then slandering China for the resulting human rights violations that came with that rapid development (these kinds of violations, like slavery, were an essential ingredient to the United States' own development). Not saying China isn't culpable for the crimes, but it feels gross and hypocritical to sit back and call them evil for human/worker's rights violations when we knew it would happen (from personal experience) when we started Sino-American relations, and know it's happening now while our companies involved actively fight to keep it going.
-Attention should be drawn to these issues in China with an understanding that they are not outside of the norm for major developing economies, and a realization that these crimes seem outrageous to us largely because we are about a hundred years removed from the peak of the fight to improve conditions for workers stateside (and only a bit further removed from our very own brand of re-education involving a minority: Native Americans). China's only really been at this global economy game since like 1970. Again, not excusing it, but being realistic and understanding this is how the world has historically worked under capitalism, as disgusting it is.
-ideally, we'd replace the whole thing with something actually equitable (dunno if it'll ever be possible bc we are in so deep, and I am not going to claim to have practical steps to get there, so don't ask me for any bright ideas)
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What's especially disgusting is the fight put up by Nike and Apple against the anti slavery legislation. They know they are being bad and aren't hiding it.
Also, while I'm here I wanna put these things out there:
-the brunt of the responsibility to change practices under capitalism lies with govs and corpos, not individual consumers making choices or "voting with their $" we can only choose what is available, and like others have said... no true ethical choices.
-America is absolutely guilty of encouraging China to enter global trade and benefitting from their developments as a major trade partner, then slandering China for the resulting human rights violations that came with that rapid development (these kinds of violations, like slavery, were an essential ingredient to the United States' own development). Not saying China isn't culpable for the crimes, but it feels gross and hypocritical to sit back and call them evil for human/worker's rights violations when we knew it would happen (from personal experience) when we started Sino-American relations, and know it's happening now while our companies involved actively fight to keep it going.
-Attention should be drawn to these issues in China with an understanding that they are not outside of the norm for major developing economies, and a realization that these crimes seem outrageous to us largely because we are about a hundred years removed from the peak of the fight to improve conditions for workers stateside (and only a bit further removed from our very own brand of re-education involving a minority: Native Americans). China's only really been at this global economy game since like 1970. Again, not excusing it, but being realistic and understanding this is how the world has historically worked under capitalism, as disgusting it is.
-ideally, we'd replace the whole thing with something actually equitable (dunno if it'll ever be possible bc we are in so deep, and I am not going to claim to have practical steps to get there, so don't ask me for any bright ideas)
thank you for this but you’re aiming entirely too high for a board that still refers to black skateboarders as “descendants of slaves”
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What's especially disgusting is the fight put up by Nike and Apple against the anti slavery legislation. They know they are being bad and aren't hiding it.
Also, while I'm here I wanna put these things out there:
-the brunt of the responsibility to change practices under capitalism lies with govs and corpos, not individual consumers making choices or "voting with their $" we can only choose what is available, and like others have said... no true ethical choices.
-America is absolutely guilty of encouraging China to enter global trade and benefitting from their developments as a major trade partner, then slandering China for the resulting human rights violations that came with that rapid development (these kinds of violations, like slavery, were an essential ingredient to the United States' own development). Not saying China isn't culpable for the crimes, but it feels gross and hypocritical to sit back and call them evil for human/worker's rights violations when we knew it would happen (from personal experience) when we started Sino-American relations, and know it's happening now while our companies involved actively fight to keep it going.
-Attention should be drawn to these issues in China with an understanding that they are not outside of the norm for major developing economies, and a realization that these crimes seem outrageous to us largely because we are about a hundred years removed from the peak of the fight to improve conditions for workers stateside (and only a bit further removed from our very own brand of re-education involving a minority: Native Americans). China's only really been at this global economy game since like 1970. Again, not excusing it, but being realistic and understanding this is how the world has historically worked under capitalism, as disgusting it is.
-ideally, we'd replace the whole thing with something actually equitable (dunno if it'll ever be possible bc we are in so deep, and I am not going to claim to have practical steps to get there, so don't ask me for any bright ideas)
thank you for this but you’re aiming entirely too high for a board that still refers to black skateboarders as “descendants of slaves”
I was talking about specifically the African Americans on the Nike team. Obviously, not all black people have slaves in their family tree but I guarantee every African American on the Nike team has a white last name so they must of had slaves in their family otherwise they’d have African last names.
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What's especially disgusting is the fight put up by Nike and Apple against the anti slavery legislation. They know they are being bad and aren't hiding it.
Also, while I'm here I wanna put these things out there:
-the brunt of the responsibility to change practices under capitalism lies with govs and corpos, not individual consumers making choices or "voting with their $" we can only choose what is available, and like others have said... no true ethical choices.
-America is absolutely guilty of encouraging China to enter global trade and benefitting from their developments as a major trade partner, then slandering China for the resulting human rights violations that came with that rapid development (these kinds of violations, like slavery, were an essential ingredient to the United States' own development). Not saying China isn't culpable for the crimes, but it feels gross and hypocritical to sit back and call them evil for human/worker's rights violations when we knew it would happen (from personal experience) when we started Sino-American relations, and know it's happening now while our companies involved actively fight to keep it going.
-Attention should be drawn to these issues in China with an understanding that they are not outside of the norm for major developing economies, and a realization that these crimes seem outrageous to us largely because we are about a hundred years removed from the peak of the fight to improve conditions for workers stateside (and only a bit further removed from our very own brand of re-education involving a minority: Native Americans). China's only really been at this global economy game since like 1970. Again, not excusing it, but being realistic and understanding this is how the world has historically worked under capitalism, as disgusting it is.
-ideally, we'd replace the whole thing with something actually equitable (dunno if it'll ever be possible bc we are in so deep, and I am not going to claim to have practical steps to get there, so don't ask me for any bright ideas)
thank you for this but you’re aiming entirely too high for a board that still refers to black skateboarders as “descendants of slaves”
@youoverthere do you think those skaters have some sort of responsibility to do/say something about it? Others were stating they think skaters who belong to minority groups like BA or Leo should stand up to the company and do something.
I think they have a platform they could use and could exert some pressure, but at the end of the day it feels more like blaming them for an issue that's way deeper and involves much larger, more powerful forces. It would be sick to see anyone on the team stand up and be vocal on the issue, but best to not confuse their inaction with the cause of the problem.
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What's especially disgusting is the fight put up by Nike and Apple against the anti slavery legislation. They know they are being bad and aren't hiding it.
Also, while I'm here I wanna put these things out there:
-the brunt of the responsibility to change practices under capitalism lies with govs and corpos, not individual consumers making choices or "voting with their $" we can only choose what is available, and like others have said... no true ethical choices.
-America is absolutely guilty of encouraging China to enter global trade and benefitting from their developments as a major trade partner, then slandering China for the resulting human rights violations that came with that rapid development (these kinds of violations, like slavery, were an essential ingredient to the United States' own development). Not saying China isn't culpable for the crimes, but it feels gross and hypocritical to sit back and call them evil for human/worker's rights violations when we knew it would happen (from personal experience) when we started Sino-American relations, and know it's happening now while our companies involved actively fight to keep it going.
-Attention should be drawn to these issues in China with an understanding that they are not outside of the norm for major developing economies, and a realization that these crimes seem outrageous to us largely because we are about a hundred years removed from the peak of the fight to improve conditions for workers stateside (and only a bit further removed from our very own brand of re-education involving a minority: Native Americans). China's only really been at this global economy game since like 1970. Again, not excusing it, but being realistic and understanding this is how the world has historically worked under capitalism, as disgusting it is.
-ideally, we'd replace the whole thing with something actually equitable (dunno if it'll ever be possible bc we are in so deep, and I am not going to claim to have practical steps to get there, so don't ask me for any bright ideas)
thank you for this but you’re aiming entirely too high for a board that still refers to black skateboarders as “descendants of slaves”
lmao “hey kevin, what’s good with your slave ancestors? why are you hitting me?!”
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The Gulag Vulc II will work its way into your local skateshop this spring.
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It's all fucking industrial capitalism that we, as a skateboarding community or communities within skateboarding absolutely welcomed into our little realm of reality. There's no such thing as ethical/equitable consumption on the levels contemporary humanity buys shit, even in skateboarding before the big names, I mean VF owns Vans and is a total sweatshop brand- if you've seen the sweatshops and slums wherein workers live in places like Cambodia, they're a step up from Uyghur slavery, but many steps down from good living. I agree that it's not totally on the consumer in regarding changes in policy, same with say recycling, petroleum consumption, etc but when you've got a bunch of fuck boys fanning out with endless supplies of branded gear, they're culpable in supporting it. The pros are the ones getting paid to rep the shit, literally paid to wear free clothing/shoes and the consumers are the ones spending bank to look cool or something.
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Doing something is always better than doing nothing, I suppose! Real change won't come from small boycotts of individual brands when it's a systemic thing, but why sit back and accept it?
Spreading specific information about this kind of thing happening is a big deal, though, and the word of influential pros who serve as ambassadors for these companies matters a ton. Maybe even fuckboys can experience a change of heart and realize that justice is more important than being on trend if they hear it from Travis Scott!
It's the fuckboys in congress and ceo positions I'm more worried about.
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What's especially disgusting is the fight put up by Nike and Apple against the anti slavery legislation. They know they are being bad and aren't hiding it.
Also, while I'm here I wanna put these things out there:
-the brunt of the responsibility to change practices under capitalism lies with govs and corpos, not individual consumers making choices or "voting with their $" we can only choose what is available, and like others have said... no true ethical choices.
-America is absolutely guilty of encouraging China to enter global trade and benefitting from their developments as a major trade partner, then slandering China for the resulting human rights violations that came with that rapid development (these kinds of violations, like slavery, were an essential ingredient to the United States' own development). Not saying China isn't culpable for the crimes, but it feels gross and hypocritical to sit back and call them evil for human/worker's rights violations when we knew it would happen (from personal experience) when we started Sino-American relations, and know it's happening now while our companies involved actively fight to keep it going.
-Attention should be drawn to these issues in China with an understanding that they are not outside of the norm for major developing economies, and a realization that these crimes seem outrageous to us largely because we are about a hundred years removed from the peak of the fight to improve conditions for workers stateside (and only a bit further removed from our very own brand of re-education involving a minority: Native Americans). China's only really been at this global economy game since like 1970. Again, not excusing it, but being realistic and understanding this is how the world has historically worked under capitalism, as disgusting it is.
-ideally, we'd replace the whole thing with something actually equitable (dunno if it'll ever be possible bc we are in so deep, and I am not going to claim to have practical steps to get there, so don't ask me for any bright ideas)
thank you for this but you’re aiming entirely too high for a board that still refers to black skateboarders as “descendants of slaves”
@Youoverthere do you think those skaters have some sort of responsibility to do/say something about it? Others were stating they think skaters who belong to minority groups like BA or Leo should stand up to the company and do something.
I think they have a platform they could use and could exert some pressure, but at the end of the day it feels more like blaming them for an issue that's way deeper and involves much larger, more powerful forces. It would be sick to see anyone on the team stand up and be vocal on the issue, but best to not confuse their inaction with the cause of the problem.
yes, I mean we just saw that article about the Holocaust Memorial Day being used to shed more light on uyghur problem because the Jewish leaders understand that essentially these people are being put in internment camps.
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What's especially disgusting is the fight put up by Nike and Apple against the anti slavery legislation. They know they are being bad and aren't hiding it.
Also, while I'm here I wanna put these things out there:
-the brunt of the responsibility to change practices under capitalism lies with govs and corpos, not individual consumers making choices or "voting with their $" we can only choose what is available, and like others have said... no true ethical choices.
-America is absolutely guilty of encouraging China to enter global trade and benefitting from their developments as a major trade partner, then slandering China for the resulting human rights violations that came with that rapid development (these kinds of violations, like slavery, were an essential ingredient to the United States' own development). Not saying China isn't culpable for the crimes, but it feels gross and hypocritical to sit back and call them evil for human/worker's rights violations when we knew it would happen (from personal experience) when we started Sino-American relations, and know it's happening now while our companies involved actively fight to keep it going.
-Attention should be drawn to these issues in China with an understanding that they are not outside of the norm for major developing economies, and a realization that these crimes seem outrageous to us largely because we are about a hundred years removed from the peak of the fight to improve conditions for workers stateside (and only a bit further removed from our very own brand of re-education involving a minority: Native Americans). China's only really been at this global economy game since like 1970. Again, not excusing it, but being realistic and understanding this is how the world has historically worked under capitalism, as disgusting it is.
-ideally, we'd replace the whole thing with something actually equitable (dunno if it'll ever be possible bc we are in so deep, and I am not going to claim to have practical steps to get there, so don't ask me for any bright ideas)
thank you for this but you’re aiming entirely too high for a board that still refers to black skateboarders as “descendants of slaves”
@Youoverthere do you think those skaters have some sort of responsibility to do/say something about it? Others were stating they think skaters who belong to minority groups like BA or Leo should stand up to the company and do something.
I think they have a platform they could use and could exert some pressure, but at the end of the day it feels more like blaming them for an issue that's way deeper and involves much larger, more powerful forces. It would be sick to see anyone on the team stand up and be vocal on the issue, but best to not confuse their inaction with the cause of the problem.
I hear you, that was a huge act of solidarity. You'd think at least the skaters who are champions of other rights issues would say something since they've already committed themselves to causes and have tons of support as a result.
It would be a very, very bad look for Nike to ignore their voices or worse, cut their contracts because they spoke out about it.
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So does this mean we have to cancel everyone that rides for Nike/Adidas?
EVERYONE!!!!! NO EXCEPTIONS!!!! NOW!!!!
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Nike knows all of this and does not give a shit, and who would risk What’s likely their biggest paycheck right now during a pandemic by accusing them of being modern day slave drivers. Although they are the type of company to act surprised and put out a feel good social media campaign
Chiquita banana and Coca Cola both literally partnered with paramilitary death squads and terrorists in South America. This type of shit is more the rule than the exception
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What's especially disgusting is the fight put up by Nike and Apple against the anti slavery legislation. They know they are being bad and aren't hiding it.
Also, while I'm here I wanna put these things out there:
-the brunt of the responsibility to change practices under capitalism lies with govs and corpos, not individual consumers making choices or "voting with their $" we can only choose what is available, and like others have said... no true ethical choices.
-America is absolutely guilty of encouraging China to enter global trade and benefitting from their developments as a major trade partner, then slandering China for the resulting human rights violations that came with that rapid development (these kinds of violations, like slavery, were an essential ingredient to the United States' own development). Not saying China isn't culpable for the crimes, but it feels gross and hypocritical to sit back and call them evil for human/worker's rights violations when we knew it would happen (from personal experience) when we started Sino-American relations, and know it's happening now while our companies involved actively fight to keep it going.
-Attention should be drawn to these issues in China with an understanding that they are not outside of the norm for major developing economies, and a realization that these crimes seem outrageous to us largely because we are about a hundred years removed from the peak of the fight to improve conditions for workers stateside (and only a bit further removed from our very own brand of re-education involving a minority: Native Americans). China's only really been at this global economy game since like 1970. Again, not excusing it, but being realistic and understanding this is how the world has historically worked under capitalism, as disgusting it is.
-ideally, we'd replace the whole thing with something actually equitable (dunno if it'll ever be possible bc we are in so deep, and I am not going to claim to have practical steps to get there, so don't ask me for any bright ideas)
"it's not our fault, we need this stuff". you sound like the pre-civil war south "it's not our fault for having slaves, it would be too expensive otherwise. blame the people who brought them here on ships."
if you don't care about slavery in other countries, fine. but don't then pretend to care about descendants of American slaves. cause you only care when it's expedient.
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What's especially disgusting is the fight put up by Nike and Apple against the anti slavery legislation. They know they are being bad and aren't hiding it.
Also, while I'm here I wanna put these things out there:
-the brunt of the responsibility to change practices under capitalism lies with govs and corpos, not individual consumers making choices or "voting with their $" we can only choose what is available, and like others have said... no true ethical choices.
-America is absolutely guilty of encouraging China to enter global trade and benefitting from their developments as a major trade partner, then slandering China for the resulting human rights violations that came with that rapid development (these kinds of violations, like slavery, were an essential ingredient to the United States' own development). Not saying China isn't culpable for the crimes, but it feels gross and hypocritical to sit back and call them evil for human/worker's rights violations when we knew it would happen (from personal experience) when we started Sino-American relations, and know it's happening now while our companies involved actively fight to keep it going.
-Attention should be drawn to these issues in China with an understanding that they are not outside of the norm for major developing economies, and a realization that these crimes seem outrageous to us largely because we are about a hundred years removed from the peak of the fight to improve conditions for workers stateside (and only a bit further removed from our very own brand of re-education involving a minority: Native Americans). China's only really been at this global economy game since like 1970. Again, not excusing it, but being realistic and understanding this is how the world has historically worked under capitalism, as disgusting it is.
-ideally, we'd replace the whole thing with something actually equitable (dunno if it'll ever be possible bc we are in so deep, and I am not going to claim to have practical steps to get there, so don't ask me for any bright ideas)
if you don't care about slavery in other countries, fine. but don't then pretend to care about descendants of American slaves. cause you only care when it's expedient.
how do you feel about ICE
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Nike knows all of this and does not give a shit, and who would risk What’s likely their biggest paycheck right now during a pandemic by accusing them of being modern day slave drivers.
Hopefully the type of people who claim to give a shit
This type of shit is more the rule than the exception
This is the point I'm trying to make. People acting like China is some horrible villain tend to forget every major power haas done this or something equally horrific at one point or another.
"it's not our fault, we need this stuff". you sound like the pre-civil war south "it's not our fault for having slaves, it would be too expensive otherwise. blame the people who brought them here on ships."
if you don't care about slavery in other countries, fine. but don't then pretend to care about descendants of American slaves. cause you only care when it's expedient.
You either didn't read my post (or any others I've posted on this thread, for that matter) or you didn't understand it. Either way, to sum it up my argument is that the folks acting like China is specifically horrible for this should keep in mind that the US has done this and other major developed nations did it too. When criticizing them, it is important to remember this fact so as to stay off the imaginary moral high ground Americans use to talk down about China.
I also tried to explain that historically, capitalism has created the conditions for slavery to happen as countries grow, often legally (which, to be as transparent as I could possibly be, I do NOT agree with). China has been growing very, very quickly in the last 50 or 60 years and they have cut some corners to compete by doing horrible things, just like the US, UK, etc. did as they grew (only they did it for a LOT longer).
I clearly stated that I think what's happening in China is horrible and inexcusable, by no means am I "ok" with it, but I'll maintain that without the people in fucking charge of big money and lawmaking doing anything about it, whichever corporation you buy shoes from (they're ALL fucking someone up in some way or another) makes little to no difference other than helping you get some sleep at night. And to really drive it home, I'll have you know I've switched to NB# for this very reason!
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Nike knows all of this and does not give a shit, and who would risk What’s likely their biggest paycheck right now during a pandemic by accusing them of being modern day slave drivers.
Hopefully the type of people who claim to give a shit
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This type of shit is more the rule than the exception
This is the point I'm trying to make. People acting like China is some horrible villain tend to forget every major power haas done this or something equally horrific at one point or another.
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"it's not our fault, we need this stuff". you sound like the pre-civil war south "it's not our fault for having slaves, it would be too expensive otherwise. blame the people who brought them here on ships."
if you don't care about slavery in other countries, fine. but don't then pretend to care about descendants of American slaves. cause you only care when it's expedient.
You either didn't read my post (or any others I've posted on this thread, for that matter) or you didn't understand it. Either way, to sum it up my argument is that the folks acting like China is specifically horrible for this should keep in mind that the US has done this and other major developed nations did it too. When criticizing them, it is important to remember this to stay off the imaginary moral high ground Americans use to talk down about China.
I also tried to explain that historically, capitalism has created the conditions for slavery to happen as countries grow, often legally (which, to be as transparent as I could possibly be, I do NOT agree with). China has been growing very, very quickly in the last 50 or 60 years and they have cut some corners to compete by doing horrible things, just like the US, UK, etc. did as they grew (only they did it for a LOT longer).
I clearly stated that I think what's happening in China is horrible and inexcusable, by no means am I "ok" with it, but I'll maintain that without the people in fucking charge of big money and lawmaking doing anything about it, whichever corporation you buy shoes from (they're ALL fucking someone up in some way or another) makes little to no difference other than helping you get some sleep at night. And to really drive it home, I'll have you know I've switched to NB# for this very reason!
When a country is positioning itself for global hegemony and they are totally cool with practicing slavery in 2021, it's not a bad thing to recognize it as fucked up and repugnant. The implications aren't good.
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When a country is positioning itself for global hegemony and they are totally cool with practicing slavery in 2021, it's not a bad thing to recognize it as fucked up and repugnant. The implications aren't good.
Show me where I even hinted at the idea that I don't think it's fucked up and I'll understand why you posted this reply.
I can recognize it's fucked up and also recognize that it's the way of the world (that I wish I could change by not buying certain shoes, if only it were that easy). I hope you can see that we're angry at the same thing.
Edit: I think the difference between you and I is that you seem really scared of China and seem to believe that if they do ever surpass the US as an economic power, their moral inferiority will result in the world being enslaved. And that's a YOU problem, my friend.
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Are any of you typing this all from an iPhone? Cuz if you are I got some bad news for you.
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Are any of you typing this all from an iPhone? Cuz if you are I got some bad news for you.
See page 5. Also, I'm typing this on a Samsung that is also undoubtedly tied to labor or human rights violations somewhere down the line.
Has to be the 100th time it's been said, but we simply don't live in a world where it's possible to be a citizen in the US (or any other modernized country) and live 100% free of any ties to horrors committed around the world. Those horrors bring you what's on your feet or in your hands, and there's really no practical way to escape it completely, yet we still have a right to be vocal about this. It is not necessary to go build a cabin and live off the land to have an opinion here.
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https://www.qiaocollective.com/en/education/xinjiang
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i'm on the trader joes macaroni phone 6 it's made of kale and pasta and has free range bugs for a cpu
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Are any of you typing this all from an iPhone? Cuz if you are I got some bad news for you.
See page 5. Also, I'm typing this on a Samsung that is also undoubtedly tied to labor or human rights violations somewhere down the line.
Has to be the 100th time it's been said, but we simply don't live in a world where it's possible to be a citizen in the US (or any other modernized country) and live 100% free of any ties to horrors committed around the world. Those horrors bring you what's on your feet or in your hands, and there's really no practical way to escape it completely, yet we still have a right to be vocal about this. It is not necessary to go build a cabin and live off the land to have an opinion here.
there is a way around it. don't buy it. if you're serious about being 'anti slavery' don't buy nestle, diamonds, computers/phones or sneakers. you can prolly buy some of it second hand. oh, too inconvenient? cool, you're a piece of shit like the rest of us. that's fine, it's easier to buy slave made shit than research a purchase just don't virtue signal. 200 yrs ago you'd be wearing a cotton blouse made of slave picked cotton. and going 'oh, we're in America we can't pick our own cotton. this sucks'.
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Are any of you typing this all from an iPhone? Cuz if you are I got some bad news for you.
See page 5. Also, I'm typing this on a Samsung that is also undoubtedly tied to labor or human rights violations somewhere down the line.
Has to be the 100th time it's been said, but we simply don't live in a world where it's possible to be a citizen in the US (or any other modernized country) and live 100% free of any ties to horrors committed around the world. Those horrors bring you what's on your feet or in your hands, and there's really no practical way to escape it completely, yet we still have a right to be vocal about this. It is not necessary to go build a cabin and live off the land to have an opinion here.
Yo unless you typed that out on the trader joes macaroni phone 6 it's made of kale and pasta and has free range bugs for a cpu
I don't wanna hear it
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What's especially disgusting is the fight put up by Nike and Apple against the anti slavery legislation. They know they are being bad and aren't hiding it.
Also, while I'm here I wanna put these things out there:
-the brunt of the responsibility to change practices under capitalism lies with govs and corpos, not individual consumers making choices or "voting with their $" we can only choose what is available, and like others have said... no true ethical choices.
-America is absolutely guilty of encouraging China to enter global trade and benefitting from their developments as a major trade partner, then slandering China for the resulting human rights violations that came with that rapid development (these kinds of violations, like slavery, were an essential ingredient to the United States' own development). Not saying China isn't culpable for the crimes, but it feels gross and hypocritical to sit back and call them evil for human/worker's rights violations when we knew it would happen (from personal experience) when we started Sino-American relations, and know it's happening now while our companies involved actively fight to keep it going.
-Attention should be drawn to these issues in China with an understanding that they are not outside of the norm for major developing economies, and a realization that these crimes seem outrageous to us largely because we are about a hundred years removed from the peak of the fight to improve conditions for workers stateside (and only a bit further removed from our very own brand of re-education involving a minority: Native Americans). China's only really been at this global economy game since like 1970. Again, not excusing it, but being realistic and understanding this is how the world has historically worked under capitalism, as disgusting it is.
-ideally, we'd replace the whole thing with something actually equitable (dunno if it'll ever be possible bc we are in so deep, and I am not going to claim to have practical steps to get there, so don't ask me for any bright ideas)
if you don't care about slavery in other countries, fine. but don't then pretend to care about descendants of American slaves. cause you only care when it's expedient.
how do you feel about ICE
ICE? they're surprisingly Mexican. that's my first take away [they pull you over in NM headed west or east of El Paso going the other way]. they're more white up around the Canada border. they're doing a necessary job and they stop a lot of child trafficking, stop a lot of drugs. it's inconvenient when they hassle me 'are you American?' but our whole country would be cartel beheading videos w/out them.
sometimes they capture an 'innocent illegal' who's just here to work. i've seen em get yanked off the bus. but they did sneak in, that's kinda the rules. but they get a bum rap, 3rd world is gnarly and you can't just not have a border. hope i answered your question.
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Cool another cop stan
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When a country is positioning itself for global hegemony and they are totally cool with practicing slavery in 2021, it's not a bad thing to recognize it as fucked up and repugnant. The implications aren't good.
Show me where I even hinted at the idea that I don't think it's fucked up and I'll understand why you posted this reply.
I can recognize it's fucked up and also recognize that it's the way of the world (that I wish I could change by not buying certain shoes, if only it were that easy). I hope you can see that we're angry at the same thing.
Edit: I think the difference between you and I is that you seem really scared of China and seem to believe that if they do ever surpass the US as an economic power, their moral inferiority will result in the world being enslaved. And that's a YOU problem, my friend.
Nah, they fucking suck. Talk to someone that works for the State Department and you will run out of reasons to simp for China real quick.
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When a country is positioning itself for global hegemony and they are totally cool with practicing slavery in 2021, it's not a bad thing to recognize it as fucked up and repugnant. The implications aren't good.
Show me where I even hinted at the idea that I don't think it's fucked up and I'll understand why you posted this reply.
I can recognize it's fucked up and also recognize that it's the way of the world (that I wish I could change by not buying certain shoes, if only it were that easy). I hope you can see that we're angry at the same thing.
Edit: I think the difference between you and I is that you seem really scared of China and seem to believe that if they do ever surpass the US as an economic power, their moral inferiority will result in the world being enslaved. And that's a YOU problem, my friend.
Nah, they fucking suck. Talk to someone that works for the State Department and you will run out of reasons to simp for China real quick.
This is true. The CCP has gobbled up Tibet and Hong Kong, and they're constantly threatening nearby countries like Taiwan and the Philippines. They recently had a small but deadly dispute at the border with India. China is a legit threat to the world but the average person outside of Asia doesn't know it yet because the threat isn't on your/their shores or borders. It's terrifying to think about, and even worse knowing the CCP's human rights track record.
Anyway so back to shoes... what are the alternatives? What skateable shoe is not made using slave labor in 2020?
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When a country is positioning itself for global hegemony and they are totally cool with practicing slavery in 2021, it's not a bad thing to recognize it as fucked up and repugnant. The implications aren't good.
Show me where I even hinted at the idea that I don't think it's fucked up and I'll understand why you posted this reply.
I can recognize it's fucked up and also recognize that it's the way of the world (that I wish I could change by not buying certain shoes, if only it were that easy). I hope you can see that we're angry at the same thing.
Edit: I think the difference between you and I is that you seem really scared of China and seem to believe that if they do ever surpass the US as an economic power, their moral inferiority will result in the world being enslaved. And that's a YOU problem, my friend.
Nah, they fucking suck. Talk to someone that works for the State Department and you will run out of reasons to simp for China real quick.
American exceptionalism is undefeated
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People bring up the abhorrent realities of shoe manufacturing, but I seldom see a suggested remedy that accompanies it. What do we as consumers do to change this? Do we exclusively buy New Balances made in the US/ UK? Do we pony up several hundred/ thousand dollars and buy high fashion shoes hand made in Italy/ Paris? It’s always a slippery slope once we start talking about how we’d go about fixing this sort of thing, but if anyone has any practical solutions I’d be more than willing to listen...
Yes.
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When a country is positioning itself for global hegemony and they are totally cool with practicing slavery in 2021, it's not a bad thing to recognize it as fucked up and repugnant. The implications aren't good.
Show me where I even hinted at the idea that I don't think it's fucked up and I'll understand why you posted this reply.
I can recognize it's fucked up and also recognize that it's the way of the world (that I wish I could change by not buying certain shoes, if only it were that easy). I hope you can see that we're angry at the same thing.
Edit: I think the difference between you and I is that you seem really scared of China and seem to believe that if they do ever surpass the US as an economic power, their moral inferiority will result in the world being enslaved. And that's a YOU problem, my friend.
Nah, they fucking suck. Talk to someone that works for the State Department and you will run out of reasons to simp for China real quick.
Not "simping for China," but I'm not contributing to this second wave of Red Scare either.
I'm just trying to understand China as a rapidly developing anomaly with all of the associated problems on display for a developed Western World, a world that feels free to thoughtlessly critique and in many cases (the subject of this thread, for one) take advantage of said problems.
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What's especially disgusting is the fight put up by Nike and Apple against the anti slavery legislation. They know they are being bad and aren't hiding it.
Also, while I'm here I wanna put these things out there:
-the brunt of the responsibility to change practices under capitalism lies with govs and corpos, not individual consumers making choices or "voting with their $" we can only choose what is available, and like others have said... no true ethical choices.
-America is absolutely guilty of encouraging China to enter global trade and benefitting from their developments as a major trade partner, then slandering China for the resulting human rights violations that came with that rapid development (these kinds of violations, like slavery, were an essential ingredient to the United States' own development). Not saying China isn't culpable for the crimes, but it feels gross and hypocritical to sit back and call them evil for human/worker's rights violations when we knew it would happen (from personal experience) when we started Sino-American relations, and know it's happening now while our companies involved actively fight to keep it going.
-Attention should be drawn to these issues in China with an understanding that they are not outside of the norm for major developing economies, and a realization that these crimes seem outrageous to us largely because we are about a hundred years removed from the peak of the fight to improve conditions for workers stateside (and only a bit further removed from our very own brand of re-education involving a minority: Native Americans). China's only really been at this global economy game since like 1970. Again, not excusing it, but being realistic and understanding this is how the world has historically worked under capitalism, as disgusting it is.
-ideally, we'd replace the whole thing with something actually equitable (dunno if it'll ever be possible bc we are in so deep, and I am not going to claim to have practical steps to get there, so don't ask me for any bright ideas)
if you don't care about slavery in other countries, fine. but don't then pretend to care about descendants of American slaves. cause you only care when it's expedient.
how do you feel about ICE
sometimes they capture an 'innocent illegal' who's just here to work. i've seen em get yanked off the bus. but they did sneak in, that's kinda the rules. but they get a bum rap, 3rd world is gnarly and you can't just not have a border. hope i answered your question.
your brain is made of gummy worms pal
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Talk to someone that works for the State Department and you will run out of reasons to simp for China real quick.
And of course the United States government doesn't lie
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https://www.qiaocollective.com/en/education/xinjiang
Since this all started with an ASPI publication, I recommend the link MarxLenin shared from Qiao Collective (a volunteer collective of diaspora Chinese people) as well as this recent article by them: https://www.qiaocollective.com/en/articles/sinophobia-inc. I also just wanted to say, while he might not agree with the perspective shared by the Qiao Collective or pals like myself and MarxLenin, Urtripping is being the most reasonable person in the room rn. His comments reminded me of this wonderful Noam Chomsky quote:
'Returning to the quite appropriate question, whether “new societies can grow by building democratic institutions” or only by totalitarian means, I think that honesty requires us to recognize that this question must be directed more to American intellectuals than to third-world ideologists. The backward countries have incredible, perhaps insurmountable problems, and few available options; the United States has a wide range of options, and has the economic and technological resources, though, evidently, neither the intellectual nor moral resources, to confront at least some of these problems. It is easy for an American intellectual to deliver homilies on the virtues of freedom and liberty, but if he is really concerned about, say, Chinese totalitarianism or the burdens imposed on the Chinese peasantry in forced industrialization, then he should face a task that is infinitely more important and challenging—the task of creating, in the United States, the intellectual and moral climate, as well as the social and economic conditions, that would permit this country to participate in modernization and development in a way commensurate with its material wealth and technical capacity. Large capital gifts to Cuba and China might not succeed in alleviating the authoritarianism and terror that tend to accompany early stages of capital accumulation, but they are far more likely to have this effect than lectures on democratic values. It is possible that even without “capitalist encirclement” in its various manifestations, the truly democratic elements in revolutionary movements—in some instances, soviets and collectives—might be undermined by an “elite” of bureaucrats and technical intelligentsia. But it is almost certain that capitalist encirclement itself, which all revolutionary movements now have to face, will guarantee this result. The lesson, for those who are concerned to strengthen the democratic, spontaneous, and popular elements in developing societies, is quite clear. Lectures on the two-party system, or even on the really substantial democratic values that have been in part realized in Western society, are a monstrous irrelevance, given the effort required to raise the level of culture in Western society to the point where it can provide a “social lever” for both economic development and the development of true democratic institutions in the third world—and, for that matter, at home.'
Highlights from the Qiao Collective article:
'From national defense and cybersecurity to human rights allegations, the China hawks of ASPI weaponize a variety of issues in support of their call for military buildup vis-a-vis China. ASPI and its staff have called for visa restrictions on Chinese students and scientists, alleged a secret Chinese biological weapons program, and claimed China is exploiting Antarctica for military advantages. No matter how outrageous the allegation, ASPI finds warm welcome in a media ecosystem hungry for controversy and a geopolitical climate inching closer to military aggression on China by the day.
When it comes down to it, that’s exactly what ASPI wants. ASPI executive director Peter Jennings unabashedly describes himself as a “national security cowboy,” saying that “Australia needs more cowboy and less kowtow.” As Australian PM Scott Morrison has pushed record defense spending, Jennings called for even higher targets, saying “if we’re sliding towards war, the money must flow.”
This belligerent attitude towards military confrontation makes sense in the context of ASPI’s financials. Despite being cited as a ‘non-partisan expert’ on all things China, when it comes to the profits of war, ASPI has skin in the game.
That’s because ASPI—like many of the biggest players in Sinophobia, Inc—receives major funding from the Australian military and U.S. weapons contractors like Lockheed Martin and Raytheon.
In the 2019-2020 fiscal year, ASPI received 69% of it’s funding—over AU$7 million—from the Australian department of defense and federal government. Another AU$1.89 million came from overseas government agencies—including the Embassies of Israel and Japan, the U.S. Department of Defense and State Department and the NATO Strategic Comms Center. Far from being a non-partisan counterbalance to imperialist state agendas, the same governments pushing geopolitical aggression on China are in fact ASPI’s primary funders.
Disturbingly, another AU$1.1 million came from defense industries and the private sector, including Lockheed Martin ($25,000 for a “strategic sponsorship”) and Northrop Grumman ($67,500 for an “ASPI Sponsorship”).
In a blatant display of their conflict of interest, the same weapons corporations sponsoring ASPI’s anti-China call to arms are also supplying the New Cold War on China. In 2016, the Australian department of defense awarded Lockheed Martin a AU$1.4 billion combat “combat system integrator” contract as part of its Future Submarines program to “stand up” to China. Under the same program, defense contractor Naval Group—which contributed a $16,666.68 “ASPI Sponsorship” in 2019-2020—was awarded a $605 million contract for submarine design.'
Other links that share context I haven't seen mentioned on this thread yet:
Tibet: https://redsails.org/friendly-feudalism/
Hong Kong: https://thegrayzone.com/2020/06/09/hong-kongs-far-right-us-politicians-crush-black-lives-matter/
Africa (B&R Initiative): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5uzxV8ub9k
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^yes
& lol at “ask anyone in the state department”
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ICE? they're surprisingly Mexican. that's my first take away [they pull you over in NM headed west or east of El Paso going the other way]. they're more white up around the Canada border. they're doing a necessary job and they stop a lot of child trafficking, stop a lot of drugs. it's inconvenient when they hassle me 'are you American?' but our whole country would be cartel beheading videos w/out them.
sometimes they capture an 'innocent illegal' who's just here to work. i've seen em get yanked off the bus. but they did sneak in, that's kinda the rules. but they get a bum rap, 3rd world is gnarly and you can't just not have a border. hope i answered your question.
This is a terrible take. Blue lives matter level of bootlicking.
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ICE? they're surprisingly Mexican. that's my first take away [they pull you over in NM headed west or east of El Paso going the other way]. they're more white up around the Canada border. they're doing a necessary job and they stop a lot of child trafficking, stop a lot of drugs. it's inconvenient when they hassle me 'are you American?' but our whole country would be cartel beheading videos w/out them.
sometimes they capture an 'innocent illegal' who's just here to work. i've seen em get yanked off the bus. but they did sneak in, that's kinda the rules. but they get a bum rap, 3rd world is gnarly and you can't just not have a border. hope i answered your question.
This is a terrible take. Blue lives matter level of bootlicking.
if you think south america just HAPPENS to be super fucked up and also where america gets sweetheart deals through CIA backed governments for cheap labor and raw material then i am the wallet inspector and i need you to hand it over
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I wonder if Airwalk would have joined this fuckery
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(https://68.media.tumblr.com/c2a92108bccc54242c1615367c634ea4/tumblr_o5whvhIjuh1s2wio8o1_1280.gif)
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ICE? they're surprisingly Mexican. that's my first take away [they pull you over in NM headed west or east of El Paso going the other way]. they're more white up around the Canada border. they're doing a necessary job and they stop a lot of child trafficking, stop a lot of drugs. it's inconvenient when they hassle me 'are you American?' but our whole country would be cartel beheading videos w/out them.
sometimes they capture an 'innocent illegal' who's just here to work. i've seen em get yanked off the bus. but they did sneak in, that's kinda the rules. but they get a bum rap, 3rd world is gnarly and you can't just not have a border. hope i answered your question.
This is a terrible take. Blue lives matter level of bootlicking.
What are you tying to debate here cornball? Your statements are not factual and inflamatory. "Yellow Commies" is a racist phrase. On top of that, refugees trying to escape cartel violence in Mexico, Central and South America comprise an overwhelming majority of the people fleeing to the US for asylum.
See the thing is, a lot of us didn't just fall of the turnip truck and can see a right wing troll coming a mile away. You can't debate willfully stupid.
And on top of that you double post like a fucking noob.
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ICE? they're surprisingly Mexican. that's my first take away [they pull you over in NM headed west or east of El Paso going the other way]. they're more white up around the Canada border. they're doing a necessary job and they stop a lot of child trafficking, stop a lot of drugs. it's inconvenient when they hassle me 'are you American?' but our whole country would be cartel beheading videos w/out them.
sometimes they capture an 'innocent illegal' who's just here to work. i've seen em get yanked off the bus. but they did sneak in, that's kinda the rules. but they get a bum rap, 3rd world is gnarly and you can't just not have a border. hope i answered your question.
This is a terrible take. Blue lives matter level of bootlicking.
if you think south america just HAPPENS to be super fucked up and also where america gets sweetheart deals through CIA backed governments for cheap labor and raw material then i am the wallet inspector and i need you to hand it over
Cky, you just weren't speaking his language earlier... Here, I'll try.
Sir, please hand him your wallet. Sir, HE'S THE WALLET INSPECTOR PLEASE COMPLY.
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and if you don't realize ICE is important, you're pro child sex trafficking. starting to make sense. ok groomers.
Q Anon is a hell of a drug
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/while-in-ice-custody-thousands-of-migrants-reported-sexual-abuse
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ICE? they're surprisingly Mexican. that's my first take away [they pull you over in NM headed west or east of El Paso going the other way]. they're more white up around the Canada border. they're doing a necessary job and they stop a lot of child trafficking, stop a lot of drugs. it's inconvenient when they hassle me 'are you American?' but our whole country would be cartel beheading videos w/out them.
sometimes they capture an 'innocent illegal' who's just here to work. i've seen em get yanked off the bus. but they did sneak in, that's kinda the rules. but they get a bum rap, 3rd world is gnarly and you can't just not have a border. hope i answered your question.
This is a terrible take. Blue lives matter level of bootlicking.
See the thing is, a lot of us didn't just fall of the turnip truck and can see a right wing troll coming a mile away. You can't debate willfully stupid.
And on top of that you double post like a fucking noob.
and 'yellow lives' was a response to being called 'blue lives'. so black lives matter, white lives matter' are ok but not yellow? or is it only bad when i say it?
here comes the turnip truck, get back on it and don't come back to town w/out your wits about you.
If you don't think there's cartel violence in Colombia, where most of the cocaine comes from, then I don't know what to tell you.
I assume you used the phrase "Yellow Lives Matter" in reference to Urtripping's statements that the Sinophobia in this thread was out of hand. Again, if I have to explain to you why using "yellow" in reference to China is deeply racist than I also don't know what else to say other than yes it very much is.
Finally, your insistence that people fleeing for their lives follow international rules of asylum that they are likely not aware of is just stupid. For better or for worse, the US has projected the image that we are a beacon of fairness and Democracy and scared people trying to survive are going to come here to try and get a piece of that. I would argue that throwing shit on that image is exactly what was behind the last administration's cruel and demonstrative immigration policies.
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ICE? they're surprisingly Mexican. that's my first take away [they pull you over in NM headed west or east of El Paso going the other way]. they're more white up around the Canada border. they're doing a necessary job and they stop a lot of child trafficking, stop a lot of drugs. it's inconvenient when they hassle me 'are you American?' but our whole country would be cartel beheading videos w/out them.
sometimes they capture an 'innocent illegal' who's just here to work. i've seen em get yanked off the bus. but they did sneak in, that's kinda the rules. but they get a bum rap, 3rd world is gnarly and you can't just not have a border. hope i answered your question.
This is a terrible take. Blue lives matter level of bootlicking.
See the thing is, a lot of us didn't just fall of the turnip truck and can see a right wing troll coming a mile away. You can't debate willfully stupid.
And on top of that you double post like a fucking noob.
and 'yellow lives' was a response to being called 'blue lives'. so black lives matter, white lives matter' are ok but not yellow? or is it only bad when i say it?
here comes the turnip truck, get back on it and don't come back to town w/out your wits about you.
I assume you used the phrase "Yellow Lives Matter" in reference to Urtripping's statements that the Sinophobia in this thread was out of hand. Again, if I have to explain to you why using "yellow" in reference to China is deeply racist than I also don't know what else to say other than yes it very much is.
Finally, your insistence that people fleeing for their lives follow international rules of asylum that they are likely not aware of is just stupid. For better or for worse, the US has projected the image that we are a beacon of fairness and Democracy and scared people trying to survive are going to come here to try and get a piece of that. I would argue that throwing shit on that image is exactly what was behind the last administration's cruel and demonstrative immigration policies.
black people aren't physically black, right? but it's descriptive. white people aren't white like paper but you know what people mean when they say white. and yellow isn't an insult, it refers to people from Asia. go to prison, you will see 'brown pride' tats on mexicans and 'yellow pride' on the tiny rascals. if someone uses it then it's fair game. just like cops aren't blue like slap but 'blue lives' connotates police.
racism has an element of condescension or hate. i'd take a gang of asians over most of slap.
ps why did childhood get banned?
wahhh my entire world outlook is “why isn’t there a white history month” and i’m lashing out because society is moving on without me wahhhh
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ICE? they're surprisingly Mexican. that's my first take away [they pull you over in NM headed west or east of El Paso going the other way]. they're more white up around the Canada border. they're doing a necessary job and they stop a lot of child trafficking, stop a lot of drugs. it's inconvenient when they hassle me 'are you American?' but our whole country would be cartel beheading videos w/out them.
sometimes they capture an 'innocent illegal' who's just here to work. i've seen em get yanked off the bus. but they did sneak in, that's kinda the rules. but they get a bum rap, 3rd world is gnarly and you can't just not have a border. hope i answered your question.
This is a terrible take. Blue lives matter level of bootlicking.
See the thing is, a lot of us didn't just fall of the turnip truck and can see a right wing troll coming a mile away. You can't debate willfully stupid.
And on top of that you double post like a fucking noob.
and 'yellow lives' was a response to being called 'blue lives'. so black lives matter, white lives matter' are ok but not yellow? or is it only bad when i say it?
here comes the turnip truck, get back on it and don't come back to town w/out your wits about you.
I assume you used the phrase "Yellow Lives Matter" in reference to Urtripping's statements that the Sinophobia in this thread was out of hand. Again, if I have to explain to you why using "yellow" in reference to China is deeply racist than I also don't know what else to say other than yes it very much is.
Finally, your insistence that people fleeing for their lives follow international rules of asylum that they are likely not aware of is just stupid. For better or for worse, the US has projected the image that we are a beacon of fairness and Democracy and scared people trying to survive are going to come here to try and get a piece of that. I would argue that throwing shit on that image is exactly what was behind the last administration's cruel and demonstrative immigration policies.
black people aren't physically black, right? but it's descriptive. white people aren't white like paper but you know what people mean when they say white. and yellow isn't an insult, it refers to people from Asia. go to prison, you will see 'brown pride' tats on mexicans and 'yellow pride' on the tiny rascals. if someone uses it then it's fair game. just like cops aren't blue like slap but 'blue lives' connotates police.
racism has an element of condescension or hate. i'd take a gang of asians over most of slap.
ps why did childhood get banned?
fuck off. you're a grade A smooth brained, piece of shit. your mother should have swallowed you
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/04/us-is-deeply-disturbed-by-reports-of-systematic-in-chinas-uighurxinjiang-camps
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Not related to China, but the mindset in Nike in general.
Look how they treat some of their female athletes
Not so ‘woke’
https://youtu.be/qBwtCf2X5jw
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What's especially disgusting is the fight put up by Nike and Apple against the anti slavery legislation. They know they are being bad and aren't hiding it.
Also, while I'm here I wanna put these things out there:
-the brunt of the responsibility to change practices under capitalism lies with govs and corpos, not individual consumers making choices or "voting with their $" we can only choose what is available, and like others have said... no true ethical choices.
-America is absolutely guilty of encouraging China to enter global trade and benefitting from their developments as a major trade partner, then slandering China for the resulting human rights violations that came with that rapid development (these kinds of violations, like slavery, were an essential ingredient to the United States' own development). Not saying China isn't culpable for the crimes, but it feels gross and hypocritical to sit back and call them evil for human/worker's rights violations when we knew it would happen (from personal experience) when we started Sino-American relations, and know it's happening now while our companies involved actively fight to keep it going.
-Attention should be drawn to these issues in China with an understanding that they are not outside of the norm for major developing economies, and a realization that these crimes seem outrageous to us largely because we are about a hundred years removed from the peak of the fight to improve conditions for workers stateside (and only a bit further removed from our very own brand of re-education involving a minority: Native Americans). China's only really been at this global economy game since like 1970. Again, not excusing it, but being realistic and understanding this is how the world has historically worked under capitalism, as disgusting it is.
-ideally, we'd replace the whole thing with something actually equitable (dunno if it'll ever be possible bc we are in so deep, and I am not going to claim to have practical steps to get there, so don't ask me for any bright ideas)
if you don't care about slavery in other countries, fine. but don't then pretend to care about descendants of American slaves. cause you only care when it's expedient.
how do you feel about ICE
Wow. That's textbook whataboutism. I'm Mexican. What's happening at the border is disgusting. That said, the atrocities that the Uyghur Muslims are being forced to live through is FAR worse.
Your posts come across like you're trying to condone the atrocities that are happening in that part of the world.
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What's especially disgusting is the fight put up by Nike and Apple against the anti slavery legislation. They know they are being bad and aren't hiding it.
Also, while I'm here I wanna put these things out there:
-the brunt of the responsibility to change practices under capitalism lies with govs and corpos, not individual consumers making choices or "voting with their $" we can only choose what is available, and like others have said... no true ethical choices.
-America is absolutely guilty of encouraging China to enter global trade and benefitting from their developments as a major trade partner, then slandering China for the resulting human rights violations that came with that rapid development (these kinds of violations, like slavery, were an essential ingredient to the United States' own development). Not saying China isn't culpable for the crimes, but it feels gross and hypocritical to sit back and call them evil for human/worker's rights violations when we knew it would happen (from personal experience) when we started Sino-American relations, and know it's happening now while our companies involved actively fight to keep it going.
-Attention should be drawn to these issues in China with an understanding that they are not outside of the norm for major developing economies, and a realization that these crimes seem outrageous to us largely because we are about a hundred years removed from the peak of the fight to improve conditions for workers stateside (and only a bit further removed from our very own brand of re-education involving a minority: Native Americans). China's only really been at this global economy game since like 1970. Again, not excusing it, but being realistic and understanding this is how the world has historically worked under capitalism, as disgusting it is.
-ideally, we'd replace the whole thing with something actually equitable (dunno if it'll ever be possible bc we are in so deep, and I am not going to claim to have practical steps to get there, so don't ask me for any bright ideas)
if you don't care about slavery in other countries, fine. but don't then pretend to care about descendants of American slaves. cause you only care when it's expedient.
how do you feel about ICE
Your posts come across like you're trying to condone the atrocities that are happening in that part of the world.
how is pointing out that every economic superpower does unspeakable hideous shit “condone” anything
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Not related to China, but the mindset in Nike in general.
Look how they treat some of their female athletes
Not so ‘woke’
https://youtu.be/qBwtCf2X5jw
fuck nike
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Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
What's especially disgusting is the fight put up by Nike and Apple against the anti slavery legislation. They know they are being bad and aren't hiding it.
Also, while I'm here I wanna put these things out there:
-the brunt of the responsibility to change practices under capitalism lies with govs and corpos, not individual consumers making choices or "voting with their $" we can only choose what is available, and like others have said... no true ethical choices.
-America is absolutely guilty of encouraging China to enter global trade and benefitting from their developments as a major trade partner, then slandering China for the resulting human rights violations that came with that rapid development (these kinds of violations, like slavery, were an essential ingredient to the United States' own development). Not saying China isn't culpable for the crimes, but it feels gross and hypocritical to sit back and call them evil for human/worker's rights violations when we knew it would happen (from personal experience) when we started Sino-American relations, and know it's happening now while our companies involved actively fight to keep it going.
-Attention should be drawn to these issues in China with an understanding that they are not outside of the norm for major developing economies, and a realization that these crimes seem outrageous to us largely because we are about a hundred years removed from the peak of the fight to improve conditions for workers stateside (and only a bit further removed from our very own brand of re-education involving a minority: Native Americans). China's only really been at this global economy game since like 1970. Again, not excusing it, but being realistic and understanding this is how the world has historically worked under capitalism, as disgusting it is.
-ideally, we'd replace the whole thing with something actually equitable (dunno if it'll ever be possible bc we are in so deep, and I am not going to claim to have practical steps to get there, so don't ask me for any bright ideas)
if you don't care about slavery in other countries, fine. but don't then pretend to care about descendants of American slaves. cause you only care when it's expedient.
how do you feel about ICE
Your posts come across like you're trying to condone the atrocities that are happening in that part of the world.
how is pointing out that every economic superpower does unspeakable hideous shit “condone” anything
That's not what you're doing though. You're using sophistic logic to try to downplay the atrocities currently happening in China by pointing at other things that are happening in the world. Yes, the border crisis is a sad situation and needs to be addressed.
Your argument amounts to this:
Person 1: This almond milk tastes bad.
Person 2: Oh? Yea, that milk tastes bad, but this chocolate milk also tastes bad so we shouldn't worry about the Almond milk.
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sounds like milk (unregulated market capitalism) is disgusting regardless of the denomination and we should fix it or get rid of it according to your dumb analogy
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Gotta hop on the train and say there really isn't any good way to spend your money as a lower income person in the US. Made in the USA/fair trade shoes cost hundreds of dollars and minimum wage is below double digits in many places.
CKY is right when they say this thing really wont end until capitalism ends. America has the most prisoners per capita and they do slave labour all the time, we are also chemically castrating people at the border and have a massive pandemic of child abuse within our immigration law enforcement.
Capitalism needs free labor to keep its cheap labor.
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Gotta hop on the train and say there really isn't any good way to spend your money as a lower income person in the US. Made in the USA/fair trade shoes cost hundreds of dollars and minimum wage is below double digits in many places.
CKY is right when they say this thing really wont end until capitalism ends. America has the most prisoners per capita and they do slave labour all the time, we are also chemically castrating people at the border and have a massive pandemic of child abuse within our immigration law enforcement.
Capitalism needs free labor to keep its cheap labor.
capitalism doesnt necessarily need an enslaved socialist dictatorship megacountry to manufacture its goods
just people here in the west need to curb their grossly wasteful behaviour
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Gotta hop on the train and say there really isn't any good way to spend your money as a lower income person in the US. Made in the USA/fair trade shoes cost hundreds of dollars and minimum wage is below double digits in many places.
CKY is right when they say this thing really wont end until capitalism ends. America has the most prisoners per capita and they do slave labour all the time, we are also chemically castrating people at the border and have a massive pandemic of child abuse within our immigration law enforcement.
Capitalism needs free labor to keep its cheap labor.
capitalism doesnt necessarily need an enslaved socialist dictatorship megacountry to manufacture its goods
just people here in the west need to curb their grossly wasteful behaviour
wish it was that easy lol
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I wonder if Airwalk would have joined this fuckery