John Fitzgerald Off Zero

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

Where is the prompt?
!
Similar sort of logic that Paulites use. If the premises she based her arguments on had any bearing in reality, there might be something there. Who do you trust, Jesus, a celibate, or Judas, a homo? You have to choose.

[Joust Ostrich]

Anyone with me on this?

[Beer Keg Peg Leg]

Expand Quote

Let's look at our differing interpretations of the trajectory of the great depression after '33. I'm going to use actual economic data:


See what happens to unemployment once FDR is elected? There is a short bump in unemployment in '37, but it is immediately corrected as unemployment again plummets. The U.S. actually didn't get involved directly in WWII until December of '41 ("December 7th, 1941, a date which will live in infamy..."). If you want to claim lend-lease helped, that was a Keynesian economic policy. When FDR started in office you had the horrors of the Okies as described in The Grapes of Wrath, and by '42, the U.S. was literally importing farmworkers to keep up with job demand through the bracero program.
It should also be noted that between '29 and '33 Hoover practiced the "leave it to the states and balance the budget" approach to fixing the economy, and look at what happened to unemployment! Through the roof!
Now, do you want to say that those employment numbers don't reflect real economic growth? How about the GDP?

Again, look what happens under conservative Paul-like policies? It plummets. FDR comes in and it goes through the roof. Again there is the slight bump in '37, but again it recovers quickly and outdoes itself. And this chart doesn't even show U.S. involvement in World War II. Also note, this chart is adjusted for inflation, meaning that it reflects real economic growth.

In that clip Paul claims there was no real recovery occurred until we paid down the deficit, but that's garbage, as the charts reflect. Although it was a long road to recovery, we would have never paid down any deficit if it weren't for the fact that FDR got people working again, got factories producing again, and readied America to be an arsenal to the world so that it could eventually have the economic viability to pay down its national debt.

If you want to see some real insane bullshit about how bad it can get, again, I refer you to the gilded age.

You can throw out all the theoretical philosophical bullshit you want, but I prefer empiricism. I judge what works economically by how it actually plays out in the real world under actual market circumstances, Paul's utopia is a non-plutocrat's nightmare, no matter how many different explanations you can come up with for why its not, it simply puts too much unstable power in the hands of the investment class, and results in shit like black friday in 1869, or the crashes in 29 and 89 at least.

As far as Obama's current economic policy goes, I'm a left critic. I believe in an FDR type approach and think there needs to be serious keynesian spending in order to stimulate the economy in the form of direct relief, not corporate welfare, as well as a 3 pronged approach that focuses on direct relief, economic recovery, and reform of an economic system that has run wild and become unstable. One thing I think he could start with is a break up of the "too big too fail" banks.

[close]

The Gip that keeps on Gipping....

Look man, I got shit to do, like hang out with my wife and...oh yeah, go skating....I don't have much time now but maybe I can address some of this nonsense tomorrow...

You know what, the wife can wait just a minute...right guys?

Gipper might not know it, but what he really needs, aside from a swift kick in the balls,  is a crash course in money, which is fair enough, because it is not something that any of us were really taught...even some folks with masters degrees and phd's in economics have been have been hypnotized and indoctrinated to not see what is hidden in plain view.  There is a great mystique surrounding the nature of money. It is generally regarded as beyond the understanding of mere mortals. Questions of the origin of money or the mechanism of its creation are seldom matters of public debate. We accept them as facts of life which are beyond our sphere of control. Thus, in a nation which assumes a high level of understanding among the electorate, the people themselves have blocked out one of the most important factors affecting, not only their government, but certainly their personal lives as well.

This attitude is not accidental, nor was it always so. There was a time in the fairly recent past when past when the humble voter, even without a formal education, was well informed on money matters and vitally concerned about their political implementation. Historically, major elections were actually won or lost depending on how candidates stood on the issue of a central bank.  It has been in the interest of the money mandarins, however, to convince the public that, now, these issues are too complicated for novices. Through the use of technical jargon and by hiding simple reality inside a maze of bewildering procedures, they have caused an understanding of the nature of money to fade from the public consciousness. 

I've really gotta run...

But Gipper, let me give you a writing prompt similar to one you might give your students:

What is money?

For now I am going to close with another quote of Abraham Lincoln's...since I already nostalgic about our Civil War "discussions". The quote has to do with his apprehension about the Bank Act.

"The money power preys upon the nation in times of peace and conspires against it in times of adversity. It is more despotic than monarchy, more insolent than autocracy, more selfish than bureaucracy.  I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. Corporations have been enthroned, an era of corruption will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people, until the wealth is aggregated into a few hands, and the republic destroyed."

Oh yeah and I am also nostalgic for talking about Gilbert's clothes...

It's almost skilful the way you write so much but say so little.

[TMKF]

had a kid research that and present it to the class, as well as repatriation. Its part of the whole expanded federal powers thing. Did you see how I easily rebutted your predictable argument in my response by pointing out that the GDP growth in that chart is inflation adjusted, meaning that devalued currency argument doesn't really work as that is accounted for in the graph?
Yeah. Thought so.
That currency value argument doesn't really work, people didn't have savings, and there was less money in the entire economy than the amount of private debt owed by citizens. The idea that devaluing currency when personal debt is sinking the economy is a bad thing is silly. Thats why what FDR did worked and the standard of living improved, more people were employed, and productivity in the economy improved (the last two are clearly evident in the charts above). You can yap about inflation all you want, but a huge issue of the depression was the massive deflation that caused problems, not the inflation. Inflation helped the economy at that point. There was no way the private debts that existed would have ever been paid or any recovery could have ever begun when people personally owe more money than actually exists.

Tell the whole truth now Gipper, yes people went to work at devalued wages and from being independent farmers and business men to being forced into huge factories to work for large corporations. The debt was accumulated through fraud through artificially low interest rates.

Dude you're too far gone, and now you're bringing the poor kids you teach down with you. I feel bad for them, they're gonna be in their late 20s early 30s with thousands of dollars in student loan and credit card debt and their gonna wonder why the only job offers they get are only offering them a measly $80k a year, such an income would leave them poor after paying for their small apartment, hybrid car, taxes gas, food, student loan bills and credit card bills oh and don't forget their carbon tax too, if you get your way I'm sure they'll have that too. They can pay some rich men some more money and magically the earth will be more healthy. They're gonna continue charge up their credit cards and wonder if they're not spending fast enough, just hoping that they'll finally get out of their personal recession. Deep down they KNOW they will because their wonderful teacher Mr. Gipper taught them that debt and inflation was good for them. And that the government tricking them into giving up their investments to them and if they don't do it willingly they just take it and that's a good thing, after all America wouldn't exist without it. I'm sure the government will take good care of them though Gipper, of course the sun wouldn't come up in the morning and the grass wouldn't grow without that government, I even bet good ole' FDR will be looking down on them with a smile from ear to ear. In your world the not so distant future a $100k salary will be barely getting by, but hey unemployment will go down and the GDP will be up so thats all that matters right?

Is this a world you believe in Gipper? Are you seriously that brainwashed? The government confiscating peoples property to create inflation to save us from ourselves? Confiscating peoples food like evil raw milk and cheese from farms at gunpoint by the swat teams? Medical marijuana dispensaries with licenses shut down, but the borders left wide open for drugs to be smuggled in and weapons to be smuggled out(by the ATF).  What I just posted may sound crazy but it's exactly what you're saying and some of it is already a reality.

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

Nothing but ad hominem for a comeback. I'm not going to defend my teaching career to you.
Actually, wages were devalued from the conservative policies of the 20's. Under FDR unions were legalized under he NLRA, and the workers wages and real productivity went up. On top of that the agricultural adjustment act created a price floor for crops and created farm subsidies to keep family farms alive. You have no fucking clue what you are talking about, none at all. What happened in the 30's is very much the opposite of the right wing gold standard based gilded age which did exactly what you claim happened under FDR, private industry tore through the countryside with bribery and destroyed family farms to the point of creating the grangers and the populist movement, which fought for a bimetal standard to eliminate the power of the big banks in the east. That's actually what the original Wizard of Oz was about, getting off the gold standard, the golden brick road led nowhere and the slippers, which were silver in the book represented a bimetal standard and a solution that was there all along. Privatized trainlines stole farmers lands and actually forced far more people into factories than ever. Read a fucking history book you idiot. You are thinking up is down and freedom is slavery.
Oh, and if you think that credit card debt and all of that shit would go away with a completely deregulated gold based economy you are wrong, we would just be wrecked more by them. That's how we ended up with more debt than money in the economy at the start of the great depression. Deregulation is the problem, which I believe we need to solve with common sense market reforms and regulations.

You arguments are a joke and show that you have read nothing but brainwashing propaganda. You have an outright false view of history, not even a revisionist one. You won't find documents or evidence anywhere that FDR destroyed family farms or that he forced factory workers into bad conditions, as conditions clearly, pointedly, and intentionally were helped through FDR's policies.

[TheRealDeal]

Nothing but ad hominem for a comeback. I'm not going to defend my teaching career to you.
Actually, wages were devalued from the conservative policies of the 20's. Under FDR unions were legalized under he NLRA, and the workers wages and real productivity went up. On top of that the agricultural adjustment act created a price floor for crops and created farm subsidies to keep family farms alive. You have no fucking clue what you are talking about, none at all. What happened in the 30's is very much the opposite of the right wing gold standard based gilded age which did exactly what you claim happened under FDR, private industry tore through the countryside with bribery and destroyed family farms to the point of creating the grangers and the populist movement, which fought for a bimetal standard to eliminate the power of the big banks in the east. That's actually what the original Wizard of Oz was about, getting off the gold standard, the golden brick road led nowhere and the slippers, which were silver in the book represented a bimetal standard and a solution that was there all along. Privatized trainlines stole farmers lands and actually forced far more people into factories than ever. Read a fucking history book you idiot. You are thinking up is down and freedom is slavery.
Oh, and if you think that credit card debt and all of that shit would go away with a completely deregulated gold based economy you are wrong, we would just be wrecked more by them. That's how we ended up with more debt than money in the economy at the start of the great depression. Deregulation is the problem, which I believe we need to solve with common sense market reforms and regulations.

You arguments are a joke and show that you have read nothing but brainwashing propaganda. You have an outright false view of history, not even a revisionist one. You won't find documents or evidence anywhere that FDR destroyed family farms or that he forced factory workers into bad conditions, as conditions clearly, pointedly, and intentionally were helped through FDR's policies.

Gipper the Slipper...You sound like a chump now...and you're dead wrong about what L. Frank Baum's "The Wizard of Oz" was about.   Take a leisurely Sunday morning and watch this Bill Still documentary.

[tb303]

Problem. Reaction. Solution...

  a fellow DI reader.


And Gipper you're delusional.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

sooo, john fitzgerald, zero..?

[DevMo!]

Pretty much sums up this thread.

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

Expand Quote

Nothing but ad hominem for a comeback. I'm not going to defend my teaching career to you.
Actually, wages were devalued from the conservative policies of the 20's. Under FDR unions were legalized under he NLRA, and the workers wages and real productivity went up. On top of that the agricultural adjustment act created a price floor for crops and created farm subsidies to keep family farms alive. You have no fucking clue what you are talking about, none at all. What happened in the 30's is very much the opposite of the right wing gold standard based gilded age which did exactly what you claim happened under FDR, private industry tore through the countryside with bribery and destroyed family farms to the point of creating the grangers and the populist movement, which fought for a bimetal standard to eliminate the power of the big banks in the east. That's actually what the original Wizard of Oz was about, getting off the gold standard, the golden brick road led nowhere and the slippers, which were silver in the book represented a bimetal standard and a solution that was there all along. Privatized trainlines stole farmers lands and actually forced far more people into factories than ever. Read a fucking history book you idiot. You are thinking up is down and freedom is slavery.
Oh, and if you think that credit card debt and all of that shit would go away with a completely deregulated gold based economy you are wrong, we would just be wrecked more by them. That's how we ended up with more debt than money in the economy at the start of the great depression. Deregulation is the problem, which I believe we need to solve with common sense market reforms and regulations.

You arguments are a joke and show that you have read nothing but brainwashing propaganda. You have an outright false view of history, not even a revisionist one. You won't find documents or evidence anywhere that FDR destroyed family farms or that he forced factory workers into bad conditions, as conditions clearly, pointedly, and intentionally were helped through FDR's policies.

[close]

Gipper the Slipper...You sound like a chump now...and you're dead wrong about what L. Frank Baum's "The Wizard of Oz" was about.   Take a leisurely Sunday morning and watch this Bill Still documentary.

OH MY GOD. You are so out of your league here son. You should have shut the fuck up, because now you are going to get sonned.

Yes it is you stupid fucking shit. Its very well known too.  I've never laughed like this at the ignorance of a slap poster in my whole life. I'm like literally belly laughing at how stupid you are.
Baum said so himself, and even explained what the characters and symbols mean.
This guy even pointed out that it's about a bimetallic standard, admits that its about the gold standard, but decides to add "central bank gold" which is bullshit. Its about a gold standard. EVERYBODY knows this. The central bank determined gold to be the standard and forced people to trade in it.
This is EXACTLY the type of stupid brainwashing shit you dumbass paulbots listen to, and don't cross check.
Actually, the federal government banned trade in kind in the constitution and forced the gold standard in order to empower the merchant class in the , who helped write he constitution, but you didn't know that, because its not in Ron Paul propaganda. It makes it clear that a gold standard favors the elites.
 
The book was anti-banker and pro-bimetallism. Baum was pro Populist party:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Party_%28United_States%29


DO YOU FUCKING GET IT YET YOU FUCKING MORON?!?!?


My interpretation is NOT controversial.

The fucking Lion was William Jennings Bryan, you know, "the Cross of Gold" speech about bimetalism? Of course you don't. If you even understood that you would have NEVER challenged the common read and interpretation of The Wizard of Oz.
Its fucking hillarious how stupid and ignorant you are.
You aren't just stupid, you are IGNORANT

Your stupidity made me laugh in a new way.

Have you noticed how my sources come from a variety of places, and yours are entirely people pushing for this Austrian econ system, not open research. I can use all sorts of research to back what I am saying, you can use incorrect Austrian econ propaganda.
Its fucking hillarious how stupid and ignorant you are.

I'm not even going to argue with you now, I'm switching over to "Making fun of the dipshit who claims to understand history but doesn't even understand the cause of the Civil War and doesn't know the Populist movement even existed"

Just shut the fuck up. You are outclassed here and your stupid Ron Paul/Peter Schiff propaganda isn't working. Find one source not connected to Austrian propaganda that says the same stuff or corroborates their interpretations- NOBODY will do it.

Here, this is the google scholar return for "Wizard of Oz Bimetalism"
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=wizard+of+oz+bimetalism&hl=en&btnG=Search&as_sdt=1%2C5&as_sdtp=on

I didn't choose one article because EVERY article backs me in the google scholar section. So every article google has that has been published to a scholarly journal agrees with me....
Propagandists trying to brainwash you put out that video, but it goes against all academic agreement on the message.



Anybody who understands history is likely laughing with my about just how epicly STUPID and IGNORANT you are.

You Paulbots are all the same, you hear about legal weed, and a republican who is pro civil rights, then you look into it and read the whole series of Ron Paul propaganda and don't bother to learn any other history or economics, then claim you are experts in it.
No, you aren't. You haven't read enough or gotten enough perspectives.

Shut the fuck up and listen, you are an ignorant child and need to learn, not argue with more learned people than you, son.

In conclusion:
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[David Schwimmer]

Gip, you need some fresh air pal.

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

Stop following me around David Schwimmer. Sunday is an all work day, which means I sit in front of my computer doing work related shit all day pretty much.  Don't worry, summer is like 5 weeks away, and I'm pretty sure I'll disappear entirely from here for at least a month. Giving cheesy 90's sitcom themed posters such as yourself more space to shine.

[Lenny the Fatface]

sooo, john fitzgerald, zero..?

A million pages on this thread and Jamie Thomas hasn't intervened and he is off the cold war site....so it's more of a discussion of where he is going.

[David Schwimmer]

Stop following me around David Schwimmer. Sunday is an all work day, which means I sit in front of my computer doing work related shit all day pretty much.  Don't worry, summer is like 5 weeks away, and I'm pretty sure I'll disappear entirely from here for at least a month. Giving cheesy 90's sitcom themed posters such as yourself more space to shine.

Haha don't leave actually. If you leave I'll have to focus myself for the sake of others.

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

Oh, I'll be back. You'll just have to go on summer hiatus like friends and come back for Schwimmer season 2 next fall.

[David Schwimmer]

Oh, I'll be back. You'll just have to go on summer hiatus like friends and come back for Schwimmer season 2 next fall.

Good thing The Schwimmer got a full time job too,  gonna get a break from raping the forum with my retardation.

Best of luck,

-Dave


EDIT: This thread is jacked

[Wall of Nausea]

Expand Quote

Expand Quote

Nothing but ad hominem for a comeback. I'm not going to defend my teaching career to you.
Actually, wages were devalued from the conservative policies of the 20's. Under FDR unions were legalized under he NLRA, and the workers wages and real productivity went up. On top of that the agricultural adjustment act created a price floor for crops and created farm subsidies to keep family farms alive. You have no fucking clue what you are talking about, none at all. What happened in the 30's is very much the opposite of the right wing gold standard based gilded age which did exactly what you claim happened under FDR, private industry tore through the countryside with bribery and destroyed family farms to the point of creating the grangers and the populist movement, which fought for a bimetal standard to eliminate the power of the big banks in the east. That's actually what the original Wizard of Oz was about, getting off the gold standard, the golden brick road led nowhere and the slippers, which were silver in the book represented a bimetal standard and a solution that was there all along. Privatized trainlines stole farmers lands and actually forced far more people into factories than ever. Read a fucking history book you idiot. You are thinking up is down and freedom is slavery.
Oh, and if you think that credit card debt and all of that shit would go away with a completely deregulated gold based economy you are wrong, we would just be wrecked more by them. That's how we ended up with more debt than money in the economy at the start of the great depression. Deregulation is the problem, which I believe we need to solve with common sense market reforms and regulations.

You arguments are a joke and show that you have read nothing but brainwashing propaganda. You have an outright false view of history, not even a revisionist one. You won't find documents or evidence anywhere that FDR destroyed family farms or that he forced factory workers into bad conditions, as conditions clearly, pointedly, and intentionally were helped through FDR's policies.

[close]

Gipper the Slipper...You sound like a chump now...and you're dead wrong about what L. Frank Baum's "The Wizard of Oz" was about.� �Take a leisurely Sunday morning and watch this Bill Still documentary.

[close]

OH MY GOD. You are so out of your league here son. You should have shut the fuck up, because now you are going to get sonned.

Yes it is you stupid fucking shit. Its very well known too.� I've never laughed like this at the ignorance of a slap poster in my whole life. I'm like literally belly laughing at how stupid you are.
Baum said so himself, and even explained what the characters and symbols mean.
This guy even pointed out that it's about a bimetallic standard, admits that its about the gold standard, but decides to add "central bank gold" which is bullshit. Its about a gold standard. EVERYBODY knows this. The central bank determined gold to be the standard and forced people to trade in it.
This is EXACTLY the type of stupid brainwashing shit you dumbass paulbots listen to, and don't cross check.
Actually, the federal government banned trade in kind in the constitution and forced the gold standard in order to empower the merchant class in the , who helped write he constitution, but you didn't know that, because its not in Ron Paul propaganda. It makes it clear that a gold standard favors the elites.
 
The book was anti-banker and pro-bimetallism. Baum was pro Populist party:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Party_%28United_States%29


DO YOU FUCKING GET IT YET YOU FUCKING MORON?!?!?


My interpretation is NOT controversial.

The fucking Lion was William Jennings Bryan, you know, "the Cross of Gold" speech about bimetalism? Of course you don't. If you even understood that you would have NEVER challenged the common read and interpretation of The Wizard of Oz.
Its fucking hillarious how stupid and ignorant you are.
You aren't just stupid, you are IGNORANT

Your stupidity made me laugh in a new way.

Have you noticed how my sources come from a variety of places, and yours are entirely people pushing for this Austrian econ system, not open research. I can use all sorts of research to back what I am saying, you can use incorrect Austrian econ propaganda.
Its fucking hillarious how stupid and ignorant you are.

I'm not even going to argue with you now, I'm switching over to "Making fun of the dipshit who claims to understand history but doesn't even understand the cause of the Civil War and doesn't know the Populist movement even existed"

Just shut the fuck up. You are outclassed here and your stupid Ron Paul/Peter Schiff propaganda isn't working. Find one source not connected to Austrian propaganda that says the same stuff or corroborates their interpretations- NOBODY will do it.

Here, this is the google scholar return for "Wizard of Oz Bimetalism"
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=wizard+of+oz+bimetalism&hl=en&btnG=Search&as_sdt=1%2C5&as_sdtp=on

I didn't choose one article because EVERY article backs me in the google scholar section. So every article google has that has been published to a scholarly journal agrees with me....
Propagandists trying to brainwash you put out that video, but it goes against all academic agreement on the message.



Anybody who understands history is likely laughing with my about just how epicly STUPID and IGNORANT you are.

You Paulbots are all the same, you hear about legal weed, and a republican who is pro civil rights, then you look into it and read the whole series of Ron Paul propaganda and don't bother to learn any other history or economics, then claim you are experts in it.
No, you aren't. You haven't read enough or gotten enough perspectives.

Shut the fuck up and listen, you are an ignorant child and need to learn, not argue with more learned people than you, son.

In conclusion:
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

 I have more gold than a leprechaun, faggot!

[Cadillac Ranch Dressing]

In conclusion:
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[oyolar]

Expand Quote

sooo, john fitzgerald, zero..?

[close]

A million pages on this thread and Jamie Thomas hasn't intervened and he is off the cold war site....so it's more of a discussion of where he is going.

I thought this was more a discussion of the gold standard now.

[slappyslap]

just saw a picture of john with dylan and donovan piscopo..........

[Wall of Nausea]

just saw a picture of john with dylan and donovan piscopo..........

were they having a three way on the catwalk?

[mongomaestro]

so the less manipulatable value of gold would "serve the elite" more than a fiat currency does?     

[trannies and mannies]

They probably went out and got pedicures, then went shopping for new purses.

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

so the less manipulatable value of gold would "serve the elite" more than a fiat currency does?     

When you say it that way it sounds silly, but your premise is dead wrong. Gold has a very malleable value. A single resource can be manipulated in the market in ways that a fiat currency can not. Here, look at the classic example:

http://www.historycentral.com/rec/BlackFriday.html

I already brought up this historical event Ron Paul doesn't want you to know about. It was a big part in why people wanted a bimetallic standard and why a greenback movement started as well, Using a single commodity whose price can easily be manipulated as the basis for all money doesn't work and is flat out regular.

Jay Gould corners and manipulates the gold market and destroys almost every legitimate investor on wall street and fucks over farmers with outstanding debts they were forced to acquire.

Gold not manipulatable? DERP  DERP. Its so much more manipulatable than a standardized currency, that's why the fed exists, to stop the gold manipulation that existed in the pre-fed era(gold standard and fed overlapped for a while). Oh, and it wasn't the common man manipulating it. Learn about economics, then get into the conversation. Don't just listen to the preaching normative claims of one charismatic personality, look into basic economic concepts and the positive economic studies of what has happened when his theories have been tried in the real world. You'll see that your charismatic leader is a fucking moron.

Oh, and you know how trade in gold specie is required in the Constitution? That's not to protect the common man. Before the constitution was written, the paying of debts in-kind, that is with crops or livestock, was common and legal in just about every transaction. Bankers were major framers of the constitution and didn't like to receive this type of payment, which was not as easily tradeable and typically could not be transfered in an international market...oh, and they knew the farmers didn't have gold. So they made it law, all debts in gold specie, farmers lost there land and there were huge rebellions by common people over it. Gold is the preferred currency of the elite and always has been.

Again, the arguments paulites present are very similar to the people who point to the bible when they talk about science and completely ignore clearly established facts. The only people who listen to them are the people with very little knowledge in the subject and are turned on by the charisma of the person sharing it with them. People who actually look at economic history and read a variety of economists realize that the idea of going back to a non-standardized gold standard is crazier than any of the wingnut shit on the left and the right.

[mongomaestro]

LESS doesnt equal NOT...     


i dont think dr paul prefers a singular "reserve" of any single resource...   he just wants options other than the monopolized and unoversighted fed's fiat...


ill try to digest the remaining context of your lengthy post later sir...   

thanks for the insight.     

[LOU.502]

I wish billy idol was my dad 

[S.E.]

Young Joseph Stalin was hot

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

Just read this and it adds to what I was saying before about how easily manipulated resource prices are, it already happens. Check this out:
"JP Morgan is rumored to hold 50->80% of the copper market, and manipulated the market by massive purchases. JP Morgan (JPM) is also guilty of manipulating the silver market to make billions."
They source each claim with a linked article here:

JP Morgan is rumored to hold 50->80% of the copper market, and manipulated the market by massive purchases. JP Morgan (JPM) is also guilty of manipulating the silver market to make billions.

An interesting article, it point out that JP Morgan holds over $70 trillion in derivatives exposure, and the world economy is about $70 trillion total. So basically we are fucked again, its not a matter of if but when.

[tb303]

 It makes it clear that a gold standard favors the elites.
 

This is the stupidest thing I have read on these forums, if I knew how to neg you I would.

I feel sorry for the people you claim to be teaching.

[mongomaestro]

yea. i think manipulating fiat value is a bit more conveniently effortless than manipulating resource values...

so instead of making them stack the deck, well let em package the cards, shuffle, then deal?  and place your bets for you?


i think dr paul is against ANY monoply on currency... just especially those with absolutely no oversight...


wasnt it a bit interesting what was "discovered" with only that partial audit of the federal reserve that dr. paul rallied for?