Johan Stuckey Cancelled

[spungo]

What Johan did is super shitty.  I know a female that actually does this as well.  She doesn't disclose her herpes status to her partners. 
Men and women can both be extremely shitty when it comes to sex, that's why I'm always super cautious. I have 3 friends that got tricked by women into having children.  The women claimed they were on birth control, but they weren't.  Always use a condom people, and never trust anyone that you don't want to be connected to forever when it comes to sex.  One night can be a life sentence.

What Johan did is super shitty.  I know a female that actually does this as well.  She doesn't disclose her herpes status to her partners. 
Men and women can both be extremely shitty when it comes to sex, that's why I'm always super cautious. I have 3 friends that got tricked by women into having children.  The women claimed they were on birth control, but they weren't.  Always use a condom people, and never trust anyone that you don't want to be connected to forever when it comes to sex.  One night can be a life sentence.

Rawbertson is that you?

[BigPants]

Johan is a piece of shit. That "apology" sucked.

Reading through this thread is fucking draining. Why are there so many trolls and shitheads? I don't remember Slap being this bad when I used to lurk like 10-15 years ago but maybe it just didn't bother me as much back then. Someone made a point that those posts come from either people with a low post count or very low rep, which is true. But it still sucks to read through.

[COMMUNITYPACK]

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https://anthonypappalardo.substack.com/p/skateboarding-shames-victims
SKATEBOARDING SHAMES VICTIMS
Empty Apologies, Empty Action, and the Defense of Toxic Masculinity.

[close]

I have to say this was absolutely awful.

Not only terribly written, but also terrible in general.

His commentary on the Slap forum is especially problematic, and totally ignores all the well-articulated posts in support of the victim that have appeared in this thread (and others on similar threads). He's discussing the same topics that have been touched upon here with much more finesse.

His post sounds entitled and arrogant to an absurd degree. Condescending not only to those he apposes but also those of us who might agree with some of the points he is trying to make.

A writer asking for filters and censorship is especially interesting and VERY worrying. If you drown out voices you don't agree with then what (dangerous) precedents are you setting; what dialogue can exist now; what chance does anyone have of learning anything?

So YOU get to write an article about this. But you want other people to be silenced? I might hate what people say; what they write on here, but the above is NOT the answer. Not to anything. This is one of the greatest problems we face in this fight and so many others: silencing and drawing lines/building walls (when the should be bridges, Etc)

Pappalardo: Seeing as how you obviously lurk here, if you're reading this I would love to talk to you about your "article" DM me.

[close]

Not sure if you ever got that DM but he’s responding to some people who came in from slap
https://anthonypappalardo.substack.com/p/skateboarding-shames-victims/comments

No DM. Maybe I should just copy and paste the above on his site?

[Roast beef]

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https://anthonypappalardo.substack.com/p/skateboarding-shames-victims
SKATEBOARDING SHAMES VICTIMS
Empty Apologies, Empty Action, and the Defense of Toxic Masculinity.

[close]

I have to say this was absolutely awful.

Not only terribly written, but also terrible in general.

His commentary on the Slap forum is especially problematic, and totally ignores all the well-articulated posts in support of the victim that have appeared in this thread (and others on similar threads). He's discussing the same topics that have been touched upon here with much more finesse.

His post sounds entitled and arrogant to an absurd degree. Condescending not only to those he apposes but also those of us who might agree with some of the points he is trying to make.

A writer asking for filters and censorship is especially interesting and VERY worrying. If you drown out voices you don't agree with then what (dangerous) precedents are you setting; what dialogue can exist now; what chance does anyone have of learning anything?

So YOU get to write an article about this. But you want other people to be silenced? I might hate what people say; what they write on here, but the above is NOT the answer. Not to anything. This is one of the greatest problems we face in this fight and so many others: silencing and drawing lines/building walls (when the should be bridges, Etc)

Pappalardo: Seeing as how you obviously lurk here, if you're reading this I would love to talk to you about your "article" DM me.

[close]

Not sure if you ever got that DM but he’s responding to some people who came in from slap
https://anthonypappalardo.substack.com/p/skateboarding-shames-victims/comments

[close]

No DM. Maybe I should just copy and paste the above on his site?

Do it bro. That self righteous shitty writing gimp deserves to be called out.

[Atiba Applebum]

Well his point stands: is there a way to add filters that block out hate words?

[COMMUNITYPACK]

We should worry less about blocking out the things we don't agree with or find abhorrent, and spend more time trying to find ways to stop people from saying them in the first place through education and conversation.

Or, you know, just spend less time in and on these places ourselves and do more in the real world.

That works too.

[Atiba Applebum]

We should worry less about blocking out the things we don't agree with or find abhorrent, and spend more time trying to find ways to stop people from saying them in the first place through education and conversation.

Or, you know, just spend less time in and on these places ourselves and do more in the real world.

That works too.

Agreed, but a filter that blocks out the N word or the F word can be accomplished presumably in a day

[Storybook Weaver]

AP: Since we’re all at different levels of quarantine and staying at home, perhaps a massive industry video chat moderated by the organizations and advocates in skating who don’t have a voice is the first step in productive dialog and progress. Maybe?

Emily:



Hope to see you there

[Spacetravelisboring]

We should worry less about blocking out the things we don't agree with or find abhorrent, and spend more time trying to find ways to stop people from saying them in the first place through education and conversation.

Or, you know, just spend less time in and on these places ourselves and do more in the real world.

That works too.

Best post on the entire thread.

[COMMUNITYPACK]

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We should worry less about blocking out the things we don't agree with or find abhorrent, and spend more time trying to find ways to stop people from saying them in the first place through education and conversation.

Or, you know, just spend less time in and on these places ourselves and do more in the real world.

That works too.

[close]

Agreed, but a filter that blocks out the N word or the F word can be accomplished presumably in a day

Sure. But that same filter needs to also block out a lot more words than just those two, too.

And so this is where things get complicated...

You need to cut the R-word, the B-word, the C-word, and on and on. Which is fine if that's what we want to do.

And then you have the issue of: Well, what if you're black and want to use the N-word? Or gay and the F-word?

I know this is playing devils advocate, but banning words isn't the answer. Education and conversation is. The word might be hurtful, but it's the hatred behind those words that really needs to be eradicated. And I worry that banning words means people start thinking a problem's solved when really that couldn't be further from the truth.

Our whole culture is becoming built around blocking the things out that we don't agree with or like. Or that don't interest us. And I just think that's a dangerous path.

For the same reason it's dangerous to get all your news from Fox.

Or all your books/groceries/sex toys from Amazon.

[Morning Jazz Radio]

Zoom link?

[thot juice]

back blocking hate speech but think ap original concern was more with general comments that questioned the victim like: play stupid games win stupid prizes which are insensitive and defend toxic masculinity but in a different context could be playful and harmless so it could be a bit tricky to effectively moderate what is offensive and what isnt i have a tommy genesis shirt (openly bisexual woc) that she made and she’s naked on it and my mom finds it offensive but i still don it errday

[Atiba Applebum]

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We should worry less about blocking out the things we don't agree with or find abhorrent, and spend more time trying to find ways to stop people from saying them in the first place through education and conversation.

Or, you know, just spend less time in and on these places ourselves and do more in the real world.

That works too.

[close]

Agreed, but a filter that blocks out the N word or the F word can be accomplished presumably in a day

[close]

Sure. But that same filter needs to also block out a lot more words than just those two, too.

And so this is where things get complicated...

You need to cut the R-word, the B-word, the C-word, and on and on. Which is fine if that's what we want to do.

And then you have the issue of: Well, what if you're black and want to use the N-word? Or gay and the F-word?

I know this is playing devils advocate, but banning words isn't the answer. Education and conversation is. The word might be hurtful, but it's the hatred behind those words that really needs to be eradicated. And I worry that banning words means people start thinking a problem's solved when really that couldn't be further from the truth.

Our whole culture is becoming built around blocking the things out that we don't agree with or like. Or that don't interest us. And I just think that's a dangerous path.

For the same reason it's dangerous to get all your news from Fox.

Or all your books/groceries/sex toys from Amazon.

Look up the “devils advocate” meme going around.   Long term education can go hand and in hand with short term steps to make this a place where hate speech doesn’t need to be seen or can thrive.   I’m sure the hypothetical gays, Blacks, mentally challenged, et al posters will gladly forgo the opportunity to reclaim the hate words associated with them for the sake of making these boards less hostile, less vulnerable to troll attacks.   This is not some thought police experiment and it sounds like a measure many message boards have already implemented without disaster

[Vomit Lust]

What he/she said.

I get that hiding the n-word means we don’t know who’s using it in real life, causing real problems, but I’m fine with a private enterprise (SLAP for instance) blocking slurs so I can ignore that some people that skate are terrible and enjoy my time on the internet instead of getting bummed about how shitty even the people in my refuge from normal life are.

[COMMUNITYPACK]

I'm down if you guys are.

Especially if we are all fully committed to this measure.

But I also think this type of stuff deserves very serious thought at all times.

Just because there's always a lot more to this kind if thing than just the immediate problem at hand.

So I hope those of you who want to ban hate speech on here try your very best to step-in and speak up in an attempt to eradicate in the "real world" too. Which I'm sure you all do. Just saying I hate the idea of sweeping things under an online rug when exposing what's underneath seems to be a far more effective tool in eradicating it completely.

[COMMUNITYPACK]

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We should worry less about blocking out the things we don't agree with or find abhorrent, and spend more time trying to find ways to stop people from saying them in the first place through education and conversation.

Or, you know, just spend less time in and on these places ourselves and do more in the real world.

That works too.

[close]

Agreed, but a filter that blocks out the N word or the F word can be accomplished presumably in a day

[close]

Sure. But that same filter needs to also block out a lot more words than just those two, too.

And so this is where things get complicated...

You need to cut the R-word, the B-word, the C-word, and on and on. Which is fine if that's what we want to do.

And then you have the issue of: Well, what if you're black and want to use the N-word? Or gay and the F-word?

I know this is playing devils advocate, but banning words isn't the answer. Education and conversation is. The word might be hurtful, but it's the hatred behind those words that really needs to be eradicated. And I worry that banning words means people start thinking a problem's solved when really that couldn't be further from the truth.

Our whole culture is becoming built around blocking the things out that we don't agree with or like. Or that don't interest us. And I just think that's a dangerous path.

For the same reason it's dangerous to get all your news from Fox.

Or all your books/groceries/sex toys from Amazon.

[close]

Look up the “devils advocate” meme going around.   Long term education can go hand and in hand with short term steps to make this a place where hate speech doesn’t need to be seen or can thrive.   I’m sure the hypothetical gays, Blacks, mentally challenged, et al posters will gladly forgo the opportunity to reclaim the hate words associated with them for the sake of making these boards less hostile, less vulnerable to troll attacks.   This is not some thought police experiment and it sounds like a measure many message boards have already implemented without disaster

Fully back this tho. For sure.

[Telly]

back blocking hate speech but think ap original concern was more with general comments that questioned the victim like: play stupid games win stupid prizes which are insensitive and defend toxic masculinity but in a different context could be playful and harmless so it could be a bit tricky to effectively moderate what is offensive and what isnt i have a tommy genesis shirt (openly bisexual woc) that she made and she’s naked on it and my mom finds it offensive but i still don it errday

Punctuation already blocked?

[Drucksache]

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We should worry less about blocking out the things we don't agree with or find abhorrent, and spend more time trying to find ways to stop people from saying them in the first place through education and conversation.

Or, you know, just spend less time in and on these places ourselves and do more in the real world.

That works too.

[close]

Agreed, but a filter that blocks out the N word or the F word can be accomplished presumably in a day

[close]

Sure. But that same filter needs to also block out a lot more words than just those two, too.

And so this is where things get complicated...

You need to cut the R-word, the B-word, the C-word, and on and on. Which is fine if that's what we want to do.

And then you have the issue of: Well, what if you're black and want to use the N-word? Or gay and the F-word?

I know this is playing devils advocate, but banning words isn't the answer. Education and conversation is. The word might be hurtful, but it's the hatred behind those words that really needs to be eradicated. And I worry that banning words means people start thinking a problem's solved when really that couldn't be further from the truth.

Our whole culture is becoming built around blocking the things out that we don't agree with or like. Or that don't interest us. And I just think that's a dangerous path.

For the same reason it's dangerous to get all your news from Fox.

Or all your books/groceries/sex toys from Amazon.

[close]

Look up the “devils advocate” meme going around.   Long term education can go hand and in hand with short term steps to make this a place where hate speech doesn’t need to be seen or can thrive.   I’m sure the hypothetical gays, Blacks, mentally challenged, et al posters will gladly forgo the opportunity to reclaim the hate words associated with them for the sake of making these boards less hostile, less vulnerable to troll attacks.   This is not some thought police experiment and it sounds like a measure many message boards have already implemented without disaster

[close]

Fully back this tho. For sure.

From a non-anglo-saxon point of view I follow this conversation about cancel culture with great interest. However, I cannot understand why some people involved in this discussion really believe that blocking terms and replacing them by abbreviations like the n-word will reduce rascism and hate speech. I don´t think peoples minds work like that because whenever someone uses a proxy of an infamous word the meaning gets transferred anyway.

To really make a difference it is necessary to change the believe systems of the people. Banning words is like brushing over and old car with new paint. It looks better but it still doesn´t work because it is the inside that counts. 

[Atiba Applebum]

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We should worry less about blocking out the things we don't agree with or find abhorrent, and spend more time trying to find ways to stop people from saying them in the first place through education and conversation.

Or, you know, just spend less time in and on these places ourselves and do more in the real world.

That works too.

[close]

Agreed, but a filter that blocks out the N word or the F word can be accomplished presumably in a day

[close]

Sure. But that same filter needs to also block out a lot more words than just those two, too.

And so this is where things get complicated...

You need to cut the R-word, the B-word, the C-word, and on and on. Which is fine if that's what we want to do.

And then you have the issue of: Well, what if you're black and want to use the N-word? Or gay and the F-word?

I know this is playing devils advocate, but banning words isn't the answer. Education and conversation is. The word might be hurtful, but it's the hatred behind those words that really needs to be eradicated. And I worry that banning words means people start thinking a problem's solved when really that couldn't be further from the truth.

Our whole culture is becoming built around blocking the things out that we don't agree with or like. Or that don't interest us. And I just think that's a dangerous path.

For the same reason it's dangerous to get all your news from Fox.

Or all your books/groceries/sex toys from Amazon.

[close]

Look up the “devils advocate” meme going around.   Long term education can go hand and in hand with short term steps to make this a place where hate speech doesn’t need to be seen or can thrive.   I’m sure the hypothetical gays, Blacks, mentally challenged, et al posters will gladly forgo the opportunity to reclaim the hate words associated with them for the sake of making these boards less hostile, less vulnerable to troll attacks.   This is not some thought police experiment and it sounds like a measure many message boards have already implemented without disaster

[close]

Fully back this tho. For sure.

[close]

From a non-anglo-saxon point of view I follow this conversation about cancel culture with great interest. However, I cannot understand why some people involved in this discussion really believe that blocking terms and replacing them by abbreviations like the n-word will reduce rascism and hate speech. I don´t think peoples minds work like that because whenever someone uses a proxy of an infamous word the meaning gets transferred anyway.

To really make a difference it is necessary to change the believe systems of the people. Banning words is like brushing over and old car with new paint. It looks better but it still doesn´t work because it is the inside that counts.

That’s not really what I or anyone means.   AP accused SLAP of doing nothing to regulate the hate speech on these boards and he cited a step many message boards take to at least cut back on the most flagrant examples.  Some troll poster very recently just dropped a bit of that hate speech in one of the most beloved poster’s inboxes.   Cutting that shit back is just a tiny, achievable goal to make this a better place.   

Long term societal change is something that will need to be worked for daily, weekly, monthly, yearly and if we can take steps to eliminate the white noise from the trolls maybe those feeling marginalized will start to join the boards and share their views, perspectives, etc which will engender empathy and allow us to all come together as people whose love of skateboarding far outweighs our abilities on them. 

[ShredneyMullen]

dudes a fuckin loser like Biebel

[Drucksache]

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We should worry less about blocking out the things we don't agree with or find abhorrent, and spend more time trying to find ways to stop people from saying them in the first place through education and conversation.

Or, you know, just spend less time in and on these places ourselves and do more in the real world.

That works too.

[close]

Agreed, but a filter that blocks out the N word or the F word can be accomplished presumably in a day

[close]

Sure. But that same filter needs to also block out a lot more words than just those two, too.

And so this is where things get complicated...

You need to cut the R-word, the B-word, the C-word, and on and on. Which is fine if that's what we want to do.

And then you have the issue of: Well, what if you're black and want to use the N-word? Or gay and the F-word?

I know this is playing devils advocate, but banning words isn't the answer. Education and conversation is. The word might be hurtful, but it's the hatred behind those words that really needs to be eradicated. And I worry that banning words means people start thinking a problem's solved when really that couldn't be further from the truth.

Our whole culture is becoming built around blocking the things out that we don't agree with or like. Or that don't interest us. And I just think that's a dangerous path.

For the same reason it's dangerous to get all your news from Fox.

Or all your books/groceries/sex toys from Amazon.

[close]

Look up the “devils advocate” meme going around.   Long term education can go hand and in hand with short term steps to make this a place where hate speech doesn’t need to be seen or can thrive.   I’m sure the hypothetical gays, Blacks, mentally challenged, et al posters will gladly forgo the opportunity to reclaim the hate words associated with them for the sake of making these boards less hostile, less vulnerable to troll attacks.   This is not some thought police experiment and it sounds like a measure many message boards have already implemented without disaster

[close]

Fully back this tho. For sure.

[close]

From a non-anglo-saxon point of view I follow this conversation about cancel culture with great interest. However, I cannot understand why some people involved in this discussion really believe that blocking terms and replacing them by abbreviations like the n-word will reduce rascism and hate speech. I don´t think peoples minds work like that because whenever someone uses a proxy of an infamous word the meaning gets transferred anyway.

To really make a difference it is necessary to change the believe systems of the people. Banning words is like brushing over and old car with new paint. It looks better but it still doesn´t work because it is the inside that counts.

[close]

That’s not really what I or anyone means.   AP accused SLAP of doing nothing to regulate the hate speech on these boards and he cited a step many message boards take to at least cut back on the most flagrant examples.  Some troll poster very recently just dropped a bit of that hate speech in one of the most beloved poster’s inboxes.   Cutting that shit back is just a tiny, achievable goal to make this a better place.   

Long term societal change is something that will need to be worked for daily, weekly, monthly, yearly and if we can take steps to eliminate the white noise from the trolls maybe those feeling marginalized will start to join the boards and share their views, perspectives, etc which will engender empathy and allow us to all come together as people whose love of skateboarding far outweighs our abilities on them.

Thanks for the explanation. Not sure that it works though. People who want to spread hate will eventually find a way to do so. Therefore, instead of filtering out certain terms, I´d rather see all the silent readers on the forum eventually raise their voice to show some solidarity and call out racist or sexist behaviour when it happens. It should be our goal to actually prove that little internet trolls are a small group of idiots who act bigger than they are.

[Patrick2G]

This topic is still floating around eh?

[TheDingus]

This topic is still floating around eh?

It’s like herpes, it’ll never go away.

[Frank]

Thanks for the explanation. Not sure that it works though. People who want to spread hate will eventually find a way to do so. Therefore, instead of filtering out certain terms, I´d rather see all the silent readers on the forum eventually raise their voice to show some solidarity and call out racist or sexist behaviour when it happens. It should be our goal to actually prove that little internet trolls are a small group of idiots who act bigger than they are.

no offense dude, but you seem to haven't been on here the last few weeks/months or at least missed the threads and discussions about all this stuff. and to not derail the thread about johan stuckey being a sexual predator and put your nice and very deep suggestions of how you feel protest against racism should be like so it doesn't offend your white middle class sensibilities. i'm sure all the racist trolls that registered here just to shitpost will be super moved to tears and overthink their whole worldview if half slap quotes "i don't stand with racists..." one after another or some corny shit like that.

next thing you tell us that you support protests. but that looting is bad and that you thus don't really support protests. but that you support protest, basically, but you think violence is bad. maybe you wish for non violent protest. whatever.

the scenario with all those wallflowers coming into their own on here to "speak up against racism" is cute, if i was a troll, i'd have a field day. i mean how pathetic is that. my way of dealing with these people is to annoy the fuck outta them and take their space. shitpost back. show them how stupid they are and desecrate their personalities in public. because fuck em. they don't earn a civilized response even when they fake civility. learn to see what is bait, attack full force when they show their true side. because fuck racists.

if slap wants to be an ally against racism, they can give people the option to not have to read slurs that target them. again, optionally. what is so bad about this? free speech is still intact since posts get published for everyone to read and only get blacked out by choice of reader. racists will still be racists but hopefully more moderately if they even try to get their point across, a person who wishes not to bother with them doesn't have to read their shit and be bummed. win/win.

also, constructive criticism is highly appreciated, here is the discussion about current changes to slap. you can leave all your ideas here and the mods will take them into consideration i guess:

http://www.slapmagazine.com/index.php?topic=111813.0

now back to the great cancellation plz.

[Allen.]

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This topic is still floating around eh?

[close]

It’s like herpes, it’ll never go away.

Just keeps flaring up

[Drucksache]

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Thanks for the explanation. Not sure that it works though. People who want to spread hate will eventually find a way to do so. Therefore, instead of filtering out certain terms, I´d rather see all the silent readers on the forum eventually raise their voice to show some solidarity and call out racist or sexist behaviour when it happens. It should be our goal to actually prove that little internet trolls are a small group of idiots who act bigger than they are.

[close]

no offense dude, but you seem to haven't been on here the last few weeks/months or at least missed the threads and discussions about all this stuff. and to not derail the thread about johan stuckey being a sexual predator and put your nice and very deep suggestions of how you feel protest against racism should be like so it doesn't offend your white middle class sensibilities. i'm sure all the racist trolls that registered here just to shitpost will be super moved to tears and overthink their whole worldview if half slap quotes "i don't stand with racists..." one after another or some corny shit like that.

next thing you tell us that you support protests. but that looting is bad and that you thus don't really support protests. but that you support protest, basically, but you think violence is bad. maybe you wish for non violent protest. whatever.

the scenario with all those wallflowers coming into their own on here to "speak up against racism" is cute, if i was a troll, i'd have a field day. i mean how pathetic is that. my way of dealing with these people is to annoy the fuck outta them and take their space. shitpost back. show them how stupid they are and desecrate their personalities in public. because fuck em. they don't earn a civilized response even when they fake civility. learn to see what is bait, attack full force when they show their true side. because fuck racists.

if slap wants to be an ally against racism, they can give people the option to not have to read slurs that target them. again, optionally. what is so bad about this? free speech is still intact since posts get published for everyone to read and only get blacked out by choice of reader. racists will still be racists but hopefully more moderately if they even try to get their point across, a person who wishes not to bother with them doesn't have to read their shit and be bummed. win/win.

also, constructive criticism is highly appreciated, here is the discussion about current changes to slap. you can leave all your ideas here and the mods will take them into consideration i guess:

http://www.slapmagazine.com/index.php?topic=111813.0

now back to the great cancellation plz.

Lol, following this thread I thought it was already an established fact that Johan Stuckey is a sexual predator. He basically confessed. Time to close the thread then, huh?

Also no offense to you, but I don´t think you get how trolling works. You getting worked up and trying to annoy the fuck out of me and take "my space", whatever the fuck that means, is the exactly what would get me a boner  if I was a troll.

You are not gonna desecrate an anonymous person in public because anonymity is the very opposite of publicity and publicity is needed to shame somebody. You can´t shame a person in public if nobody knows that person.

Man, I really hope that your problem solving strategies in the real world differ from those which you apply on the internet.

p.s. Thank you for pointing out the other thread. I like the hiding-option. It is a nice idea.

[paraquat]

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This topic is still floating around eh?

[close]

It’s like herpes, it’ll never go away.

[close]

Just keeps flaring up

put sum abreva on that shit.

[straight]

yo what the fuck kinda alternate reality is this shit

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8421701/amp/Personal-trainer-45-sues-woman-130-000-catching-cold-sore-kissing-date.html

[Spacetravelisboring]

yo what the fuck kinda alternate reality is this shit

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8421701/amp/Personal-trainer-45-sues-woman-130-000-catching-cold-sore-kissing-date.html

What do you mean?

[cucktard]

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yo what the fuck kinda alternate reality is this shit

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8421701/amp/Personal-trainer-45-sues-woman-130-000-catching-cold-sore-kissing-date.html

[close]

What do you mean?

I assume he means something like ‘in my day no one would ever get sued over spreading a cold sore’

To which I’d reply ‘maybe suing isn’t the best way to get justice, but it’s nice to see that people are being held to a slightly higher standard about shit nowadays’