PhD

[Mark Renton]

Anyone here doing PhDs?

I got offered one (civil engineering) but I don't know whether to accept it or try and get a job in the industry. Industry pays way more but PhD seems like a more chilled environment to me.

I searched the forum but couldn't find a topic strictly on this.
Anyways any insight on this topic with your pros and cons would be much appreciated.

[SHIREFLIP]

Just kidding.

[S.]

I worked on a phd in the humanities for a while but I did not complete it. I got burned out on it after 3 years. I liked my topic, but the longer I was working on it I realized I do not want to work at a university. In my field a phd is not really worth anything, unless you are planning on working in academia all your life.
That however might be entirely different for civil engineering. I have a few friends who have completed phds. One did one in biology and the other one in chemistry. They had to work alot for very little pay in an environment where they were basicly one hundred percent at the mercy of their professor. One was actually forced to quit by his professor who told him outright that if he did not quit he would make him fail his disertation. He had to complete his project on his own savings.
Anyway, if I was you I would try to find people to talk to who have worked with your professor to find out about working conditions. Working conditions can differ alot depending on the program and the professor you are working for. If you plan on a career in academia finding out about your professors reputation in your field and his connections might be important. The academic world is no better than the corporate world: it is all about connections, reputation, power and being able to convince everyone that you are more important than everyone else.

[tzhangdox]

One of my buddies is doing a PHD in mechanical engineering at Berkeley and it definitely does not seem to be more chilled than what industry work for him would likely be, especially when things are due. That being said, his schedule is definitely more flexible than a regular 9-5 so it's easier to find time to skate with friends.

[Jean-Ralphio Zaperstein]

I'm finishing my first year.
Make sure you're aware of the requirements, some departments have really gnarly exams at the end of the first year.
Also make sure (if you can) you feel comfortable with the way your director works.

Overall it's a good way to stay on the purely technical side of your field. You'll become an expert tho and might be overqualified when you try to enter the job market after you graduate.

[Mark Renton]

One of my buddies is doing a PHD in mechanical engineering at Berkeley and it definitely does not seem to be more chilled than what industry work for him would likely be, especially when things are due. That being said, his schedule is definitely more flexible than a regular 9-5 so it's easier to find time to skate with friends.

Wow Berkeley is sick!
Yeah that’s what I was meaning, flexible schedule would be nice to keep skating more.

I still feel too young (26) to go work for a company.
I’m completing a second master here in the UK.
The thing is that I don’t know what to do with my life basically haha.

PhD would be a fully funded 3 years programme.
My buddy is doing it in neuroscience but it’s 4 years with exams at the end of the first year.
I already feel overqualified (3 years BSc in civil/environmental, 2 years MSc in civil hydraulics, 1 year UK MSc in Civil structural) but I still can’t land a job due to lack of UK working/academic experience. It sucks. This would be a chance to secure an ok salary (~ 15k) for an extended period while learning/creating/traveling.

I don’t know. Keep em coming though. I really appreciate all the replies so far

[Jean-Ralphio Zaperstein]

Expand Quote

One of my buddies is doing a PHD in mechanical engineering at Berkeley and it definitely does not seem to be more chilled than what industry work for him would likely be, especially when things are due. That being said, his schedule is definitely more flexible than a regular 9-5 so it's easier to find time to skate with friends.

[close]

Wow Berkeley is sick!
Yeah that’s what I was meaning, flexible schedule would be nice to keep skating more.

I still feel too young (26) to go work for a company.
I’m completing a second master here in the UK.
The thing is that I don’t know what to do with my life basically haha.

PhD would be a fully funded 3 years programme.
My buddy is doing it in neuroscience but it’s 4 years with exams at the end of the first year.
I already feel overqualified (3 years BSc in civil/environmental, 2 years MSc in civil hydraulics, 1 year UK MSc in Civil structural) but I still can’t land a job due to lack of UK working/academic experience. It sucks. This would be a chance to secure an ok salary (~ 15k) for an extended period while learning/creating/traveling.

I don’t know. Keep em coming though. I really appreciate all the replies so far

That was my intent too. The thing is, it can't be something you do just to pay the bills. The "novelty" aspect of a PhD compared to a MSc shouldn't be underestimated. You're gonna have to create knowledge, not just data. I'm still scared about that

[iKobrakai]

Unless you have Lizard King amounts of passion, don't bother. I thought that stuff was for the few people who fucking love their field. Masters is enough for me.

But I don't know, go for it if want to spend more time in academia.

[Alan]

Depends on the field. In some, getting a PhD is diminishing returns, in others it's a requirement for getting a good job.

[Síota]

I'm in France, if i wasn't and old cunt 100% would have done one.. I'd say go for it if the thesis is intresting and the superviseur is sound.

[Peter Zagreus]

I'll be starting one in the fall (humanities), so I can't speak to the experience, but obviously your program's endowment is pretty important. I applied to two programs and was accepted to both. One offered 75% tuition remission and the department was "working on" getting me a paid teaching fellowship/assistant gig, which likely wouldn't have been near enough to survive on; the other waived my tuition completely and will be paying me a stipend of 31K a year, substantially more than I make in the shitty retail job I've been holding down. I've got no rational reason not to do it at this point!

But we'll see how I feel when I'm in there doing the work and learning more about the professional lifestyle I'll inevitably face. S's post speaks to some of the anxieties I feel with respect to the... soullessness (?) of the academy.

[botefdunn]

Unless you have Lizard King amounts of passion, don't bother. I thought that stuff was for the few people who fucking love their field. Masters is enough for me.

But I don't know, go for it if want to spend more time in academia.

same for me because of the time commitment and no longer wanting to be in school, but there were several phds in my classes and my impression was that the phd was a healthier mind-state generally, not as much pressure on a day-to-day basis and a better relationship with the profs.

[weon]

I am currently doing my PhD in oceanography in the US. I am definitely happy where I am, but it for sure fluctuates. Sometimes my research/classes bum me out, which is where the community I'm in really starts to matter. There's a lot of give and take there. My partner and two of my best friends are doing theirs as well, and they started a few years before me so they were a great source of advice. What I know about grad school is centered around programs in Earth, Environmental, and Planetary Sciences, which tend to have a reputation of being significantly chiller.

This is what I can think about right now (as I am avoiding writing a term paper), and others might totally feel differently. If you have any questions feel free to PM me.

Pros:
- Much more chill environment (especially with work hours, I know plenty of people who go surfing during the work day)
- Your professors are your supervisors, and eventually will become your peers. Less of an "authority" gap. I personally feel much more comfortable around my professors nowadays (I've even gotten drunk with some of them more than once).
- You're getting paid to learn about stuff you're interested in.
- As a PhD student, you will become part of the backbone of your lab, which is awesome work, leadership, and logistical experience.
- A lot of your learning will come from talking and listening to people, whether it is students, postdocs, professors, or other scientists, in the hallway or at a seminar. At my school there's a lot of people who work in my field, so it feels awesome to randomly chat with them and get a new perspective on an issue.
- GPA matters a lot less.
- You meet a lot of people with similar interests, but wildly different backgrounds.
- You're literally expanding the range of all of human knowledge—aint that cool???
- You will improve your writing, speaking, and thinking. (You might become lazier, but more efficient).
- Plenty of opportunities to apply for funding, workshops, summer schools, field trips, professional development opportunities, etc.

Cons:
- Research and academia are very hierarchical. (ug>grad>postdoc>prof>admins; you might have class with your advisor and they WILL put extra attention on you).
- You're in student/professional limbo. Work, classes, and personal life get very muddled.
- Becoming part of the backbone of your lab can be a huge responsibility to get stuck with.
- You might be needed/expected/required to do field work or work weekends/nights.
- Some required classes are smelly doodoo and will not really benefit you rather than put extra stress on you.
- You could get stuck with research that is going nowhere—for years.
- Depending on setting, peers can be really competitive, and supervisors can be entitled assholes.
- You might feel like you can't escape your field (everyone you talk to, and everything you hear, is somehow related to your research).
- If you move, finding a new support group might be hard and/or take a while.

Things to think about:
- What is the financial package offered? Is it an RAship or a TAship? Will it be in stuff related to your work, or just "a job"? What will be the weekly workload of it? How long is this funding secured for you? Will your pay increase/decrease as time goes on? Are grad students at your institution unionized?
- What project will you be working on? Who will you be working on it with? Are there alternatives if it doesn't work? (Some institutions have legal provisions so that you can't be forced to do work that is unrelated or detrimental to your research progress). What's the size of the lab (undergrads, students, postdocs)? Will there be multiple people to seek advice from? Will there be people you're responsible for?
- What do people who have been in that program for a while think of it? How long does it usually take people to finish? What are the requirements to fulfill each step/what's the program's timeline? What do they think of the professors? What do they think of YOUR lab/advisor? Are they supportive/assholes? Are they lax or a helicopter advisor? Ask about any former lab members or collaborators you could get in touch with.
- How do you feel about the physical setting? The city, the campus, the facilities/labs, etc. What is the community inside and outside the university like? Close to/far from friends and family? Ask if you could get a visit/tour of the campus/department.
- Why do you want to do a PhD? Is it a practical or philosophical goal? It won't be easy—it WILL suck and drain you physically and emotionally. Will it fulfill you during and after?

EDIT: Geez just posted this and it's a lot of text I'm sorry everybody...

[slippy]

Brother is finishing up his in microbiology and seems to love it.  That being said I think he wants to work in academia as a career.  Never hurts to know more but I have been on the other end recruiting for the engineering firm I was working at and sometimes it feels insulting to even offer an entry level job to this guy with a PhD so we wouldn't, assuming his salary expectations would simply be too great.  The tricky part is, like that employer, some places simply will not hire you without experience of some kind and the jobs that required a higher degree like that often boast a requirement of 5-10 years along with it. 

On paper, my 2 cents would be to work somewhere for a couple years and either get your degree while there or bail and get it then.  That way you exit the program with experience and the degree.  Of course going back to school like that seems like it may suck or you just wouldn't be interested then.  Either way though, if you get the damn thing, take a job for less than what you think you you deserve to be paid, work there for a tiny bit and start the common process of moving companies for slightly better perks here, more money there, you're golden.  Sounds like all paths are pretty good though, good on ya for getting all that education done by 26.

Good luck!

[tzhangdox]

Expand Quote

One of my buddies is doing a PHD in mechanical engineering at Berkeley and it definitely does not seem to be more chilled than what industry work for him would likely be, especially when things are due. That being said, his schedule is definitely more flexible than a regular 9-5 so it's easier to find time to skate with friends.

[close]

Wow Berkeley is sick!
Yeah that’s what I was meaning, flexible schedule would be nice to keep skating more.

I still feel too young (26) to go work for a company.
I’m completing a second master here in the UK.
The thing is that I don’t know what to do with my life basically haha.

PhD would be a fully funded 3 years programme.
My buddy is doing it in neuroscience but it’s 4 years with exams at the end of the first year.
I already feel overqualified (3 years BSc in civil/environmental, 2 years MSc in civil hydraulics, 1 year UK MSc in Civil structural) but I still can’t land a job due to lack of UK working/academic experience. It sucks. This would be a chance to secure an ok salary (~ 15k) for an extended period while learning/creating/traveling.

I don’t know. Keep em coming though. I really appreciate all the replies so far

Like some people say in this thread, I'd be reluctant to do a PHD unless I was truly passionate about said field. It's probably not something you should pursue as a means to stall future life decisions unless you know for sure that it will help in securing a job in the future. That being said, I've never seriously considered anything beyond a masters (which at most I would do after a few years of working in industry to catch a break from school), so perhaps I'm not the best person to answer this question.

[IanBZHD]

Ay man, good for you. It sounds like you've completed a lot of higher education already, which is always great to hear.

Now, I'm a mechanical engineer in the US... I know very few engineers who have PHDs here (actually only 1 personally) and only a few that have their masters.
I'm not too clear on what a PHD in civil engineering is going to do for you other than the bragging rights to be called a doctor and maybe make a little more cash. Many companies can find younger people and pay them less, so a PHD title may scare them unless you're really working for a progressive company. I fully agree that PHDs should be highly regarded, and completely necessary for people who want to be doctors or physicians, but in the engineering field I feel like a PHD is useful if you want to continue to work at university or do strictly research.

You having 2 masters already would probably make a ton of money (respectively) in the US, I'd assume anywhere between 100-200k US $. In school, I loved engineering and still do, but now that I have industry experience I definitely think finding a good paying job that you're secure at and then maximizing your free time and actually living life is more important. I can't imagine trying to find a job after walking out of a school after 8+ years and not understanding how things actually flow in the real world.

That being said, it's gosh darn free PHD...

[emchen]

Brother is finishing up his in microbiology and seems to love it.  That being said I think he wants to work in academia as a career.  Never hurts to know more but I have been on the other end recruiting for the engineering firm I was working at and sometimes it feels insulting to even offer an entry level job to this guy with a PhD so we wouldn't, assuming his salary expectations would simply be too great.  The tricky part is, like that employer, some places simply will not hire you without experience of some kind and the jobs that required a higher degree like that often boast a requirement of 5-10 years along with it. 

On paper, my 2 cents would be to work somewhere for a couple years and either get your degree while there or bail and get it then.  That way you exit the program with experience and the degree.  Of course going back to school like that seems like it may suck or you just wouldn't be interested then.  Either way though, if you get the damn thing, take a job for less than what you think you you deserve to be paid, work there for a tiny bit and start the common process of moving companies for slightly better perks here, more money there, you're golden.  Sounds like all paths are pretty good though, good on ya for getting all that education done by 26.

Good luck!

^This! idk about civil engineering, but in life sciences (I'm in pharma) getting a PhD without work experience can make it hard to get hired in industry if that's your ultimate goal. At the same time, a BS or MS will hit a ceiling really fast and you need that advanced degree to move up.

I don't have much academic experience (going back for masters in august), but whether you ultimately want to go for the PhD really depends on 1) do you have the passion for it? and 2) will you be able to find a supervisor with a good track record/distinction in the field?

Best of luck!

[Mark Renton]

Thank you all guys, I’m going for it 

It’s still not official, but I’d be dealing with bridge modeling and design under floods and climate change.. seems rad!

[Alan]

Good luck. Just remember to make everything you build skatable (once you get to be in charge).

[slippy]

Congrats on the decision! Like myself and others said, who knows what the absolute best path to take but higher education is never a mistake!

[IanBZHD]

Thank you all guys, I’m going for it 

It’s still not official, but I’d be dealing with bridge modeling and design under floods and climate change.. seems rad!

Very Cool, glad you made the decision for your self and seem pretty motivated.
We need good people like you to help make sense of this crazy world! I'm in building design as a mech, so I can definitely respect all of the calculations you're about to do! 

[weon]

Thank you all guys, I’m going for it  :)

It’s still not official, but I’d be dealing with bridge modeling and design under floods and climate change.. seems rad!

that's pretty awesome dude! im excited for you, congratulations :)

[mynameisnotjeff]

Thank you all guys, I’m going for it 

It’s still not official, but I’d be dealing with bridge modeling and design under floods and climate change.. seems rad!

Congrats!

Also, this being the most appropriate thread for it...
Has anyone done or is working on a social sciences Ph.D. Really considering getting one in psychology

[Cuban_Lynx]

Expand Quote

Thank you all guys, I’m going for it 

It’s still not official, but I’d be dealing with bridge modeling and design under floods and climate change.. seems rad!

[close]

Congrats!

Also, this being the most appropriate thread for it...
Has anyone done or is working on a social sciences Ph.D. Really considering getting one in psychology

I finished my Ph.D. in psychology back in 2015. Depending on your goals, you can also look into a Psy.D. and skip the research component. However, most Psy.D. programs don’t get university funding and are very expensive.

My full time gig is a VA psychologist, but I’ve also been able to keep a 50% teaching position at my university. I also have a non-paid leadership role in the APA. So the Ph.D. has certainly opened a lot of doors for me. I’d feel much more limited with just my master’s.

Feel free to PM me with any other questions!

[pugmaster]

Good ol SLAP.  Way more people than I anticipated are participating in this thread! I'm finishing my dissertation right now.

I don't regret going for it.

So cool to see what everyone is into!

[iKobrakai]

Good ol SLAP.  Way more people than I anticipated are participating in this thread! I'm finishing my dissertation right now in speech-language pathology.

I don't regret going for it.

So cool to see what everyone is into!

Slap is a safe space to let our inner retards out.

[Jean-Ralphio Zaperstein]

Expand Quote

Good ol SLAP.  Way more people than I anticipated are participating in this thread! I'm finishing my dissertation right now in speech-language pathology.

I don't regret going for it.

So cool to see what everyone is into!

[close]

Slap is a safe space to let our inner retards out.

Slap is a better place to talk shit about skateboarding than my material science lab

[Made In China]

Expand Quote

Thank you all guys, I’m going for it 

It’s still not official, but I’d be dealing with bridge modeling and design under floods and climate change.. seems rad!

[close]

Congrats!

Also, this being the most appropriate thread for it...
Has anyone done or is working on a social sciences Ph.D. Really considering getting one in psychology

I'm finishing my undergrad now and considering trying for a PhD in sociology in the future, after I work for a couple of years at least. Would also love to hear other's experiences!

[Deputy Wendell]

congrats on your accomplishments and decision.

like anything that requires as much time, effort, and commitment, only start on this path if you believe in the inherent value of the work--anyone who has skated for any significant amount of time, should be able to relate. getting paid in a solid career down the line is a fine goal, but if you don't believe in the value of the endeavor it will be hard to see it through.

i’m in the Humanities (because i want to research, write, publish, and teach), and i started with a pretty generous 4-year GTA package where I taught a 2-1 class-load, and which paid for everything including health benefits. i earned my MA at the University of Chicago, and i used to always hear people say there that you "should never pay for a PhD," which oddly seems like solid advice--if you have the luxury of sending out more than one round of applications, do so, because many schools/departments will have competitive packages for the PhD students they accept.

all of this being said, there are obstacles that can come out of nowhere and can unfortunately be beyond your control. case in point--i’m ABD and working on the second chapter of my dissertation, and in the past couple of weeks i have found out that one member of my committee is resigning from the department (still waiting to find out if the department is going to allow him to stay on my committee, which he said he’s willing to do) and the chair of my committee is currently dealing with a serious professional "crisis" which I can not go into any kind of detail about, but it is definitely adding to how precarious things feel at this late point in my work. in general, as my work has progressed, i've realized that my committee seem to have a lot of issues with each other, which especially came to light while i was trying to get my prospectus approved (it took two tries).

in this regard, i can tell you this--especially in the humanities and the social sciences, it’s not uncommon for petty beefs between faculty to play out through their interactions with the graduate students they work with, so put a lot of thought and effort (ask around and do your own research) into deciding on who you’re going to work with for this 7- to 10-years of your life…I’m learning the hard way right now.

best of luck with everything...

[Síota]

Good call, glad you went for it. We need more skaters with higher education.

I work in science I wish I could have done a PhD, I went to Uni at 30 and did five years before funding was cut. Still got a degree in engineering out of it. Best thing I ever did.