Israel's right to exist

[Banned from the room]

The people should have a right to exist. Not a state named anything

And religion is poison

[The real veganshawn]

https://www.democracynow.org/2024/5/15/nakba_day

[layzieyez]

https://www.nbcnews.com/sciencemain/most-ashkenazi-jews-are-genetically-europeans-surprising-study-finds-8c11358210

Can anyone help me find and allow me access to the study in question?

I am interested in analyzing it myself before coming to any conclusions.

[Mr. 9mm]

https://www.nbcnews.com/sciencemain/most-ashkenazi-jews-are-genetically-europeans-surprising-study-finds-8c11358210

Can anyone help me find and allow me access to the study in question?

I am interested in analyzing it myself before coming to any conclusions.

Being self admittedly too fucking stupid to successfully complete a basic literature search, but wanting to 'analyze' the paper yourself? If it all wouldn't be so incredibly sad it would be funny.

Here you are. Go ahead and do 'your own research'.

https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms3543

And if you want it in a more digestible manner:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/10/131008112539.htm

[layzieyez]

I would thank you if you were anyone else. There are actually posters here that do each other kindnesses that are worthy of gratitude without any expectation of thanks. Those are the kind of people I am talking to when I post. You. You can fuck off. Enjoy your self imposed life of hostility. You don’t deserve any hospitality. Don’t expect any here.

[Mr. 9mm]

I would thank you if you were anyone else. There are actually posters here that do each other kindnesses that are worthy of gratitude without any expectation of thanks. Those are the kind of people I am talking to when I post. You. You can fuck off. Enjoy your self imposed life of hostility. You don’t deserve any hospitality. Don’t expect any here.

The kind of people that you are 'talking' to are the people that say the things you like to hear and that confirm your view of things. Everyone else gets either a selfrighteous and condescending reply like this or get's banned by you straight away.

[layzieyez]

I’ll let you in on a secret. I’m not the one doing all the banning. I’ve done the least banning of any of the mods.

Keep thinking what you want of me. I’ve dealt with much worse in the navy than you could ever try to hurt me with on a fucking message board.

You’re so fucking pathetically thin skinned from your presumptions. Do yourself a favor and focus your account. You’ll never be welcome here.

[Shtonk]

I've been bullied on here like it's 1990 because I don't filter myself around the judgements of an Internet forum. The fervor with which people have personally attacked me on here (with impunity) would make you think I spread transphobic slurs, but I dont. I'm just annoying, but that's reason enough on here. This is not primarily a place of compassion, kindness and honesty, the way youre trying to paint it - although these do exist and are beautiful and the reason I come back - but the dominant vibe is that of a mid 90s schoolyard group with a bunch of popular alpha jocks (are there any women on here at all?) and their gang of eager to please yesmen. I'm all for attacking (and banning) those that would deny others their freedom and right to exist. But if kindness is reserved for those accepted to the inner circle, it's not worth all that much. A lot of people on here are all about being just the right amount of cynically funny and boldly moralist when the target is sufficiently black and white.

I don't condone the hatefulness with which this user is attacking you and I feel your pain around the unfolding horror in the middle East, but I have to contradict the narrative that the main discourse on here is that of mutual kindness.

Also, watch out trying to find any "arguments" in genetical traits of Jewish people. That usually doesn't bode well. Much love, despite everything, from Germany

[breezy_again]

I'm just annoying

like a flea or a mosquito

[Shtonk]

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I'm just annoying

[close]

like a flea or a mosquito

Great way to talk about people. So full of kindness.

[layzieyez]

I've been bullied on here like it's 1990 because I don't filter myself around the judgements of an Internet forum. The fervor with which people have personally attacked me on here (with impunity) would make you think I spread transphobic slurs, but I dont. I'm just annoying, but that's reason enough on here. This is not primarily a place of compassion, kindness and honesty, the way youre trying to paint it - although these do exist and are beautiful and the reason I come back - but the dominant vibe is that of a mid 90s schoolyard group with a bunch of popular alpha jocks (are there any women on here at all?) and their gang of eager to please yesmen. I'm all for attacking (and banning) those that would deny others their freedom and right to exist. But if kindness is reserved for those accepted to the inner circle, it's not worth all that much. A lot of people on here are all about being just the right amount of cynically funny and boldly moralist when the target is sufficiently black and white.

I don't condone the hatefulness with which this user is attacking you and I feel your pain around the unfolding horror in the middle East, but I have to contradict the narrative that the main discourse on here is that of mutual kindness.

Also, watch out trying to find any "arguments" in genetical traits of Jewish people. That usually doesn't bode well. Much love, despite everything, from Germany

It sounds like you want to be accepted. Do you want to get accepted? Post some footage. That’s the best thing you can do. Over the decades I’ve been on the various iterations of this message board, I’ve seen footage from a lot of these regular posters that you think are nothing more than yes men. Even Le Dave/Dave Le put himself out there and earned his place to be regarded as a skateboarder and not just a poster on here.

[funeral_tuxedo]

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I'm just annoying

[close]

like a flea or a mosquito

[close]

Great way to talk about people. So full of kindness.

Yes you’re annoying. You constantly spam the boards and when people criticize your behavior you act like you’re a victim and call them bullies. You’re not a victim. You’re a fucking kook.

[Shtonk]

The fact you both confuse the wish not to be personally insulted and attacked for opinions that don't hurt other people with a longing for acceptance or an inability to take criticism illustrates my point perfectly. 90s schoolyard macho hierarchies. I really hope this isn't how you live your regular lives.

[Sloppy Krooks]

The existence of Israel will likely go the same way as other governments based on
supremacism

Similar to the Confederacy, South Africa, Nazi Germany, etc.

[layzieyez]

The fact you both confuse the wish not to be personally insulted and attacked for opinions that don't hurt other people with a longing for acceptance or an inability to take criticism illustrates my point perfectly. 90s schoolyard macho hierarchies. I really hope this isn't how you live your regular lives.

That’s the thing. You don’t even see you’ve been personally attacking people here that have at the bare minimum shown they’re actually people who skate. I don’t even know if anything you have said about yourself is true yet you have taken on an attitude that you belong and deserve respect when you’re actively disrespecting others and kooking it hard. You are nothing special here. People like you have come and gone many times over because frankly we just ignore you or you finally do something to get banned because you’re so attention starved.

[Shtonk]

Expand Quote

The fact you both confuse the wish not to be personally insulted and attacked for opinions that don't hurt other people with a longing for acceptance or an inability to take criticism illustrates my point perfectly. 90s schoolyard macho hierarchies. I really hope this isn't how you live your regular lives.

[close]

That’s the thing. You don’t even see you’ve been personally attacking people here that have at the bare minimum shown they’re actually people who skate. I don’t even know if anything you have said about yourself is true yet you have taken on an attitude that you belong and deserve respect when you’re actively disrespecting others and kooking it hard. You are nothing special here. People like you have come and gone many times over because frankly we just ignore you or you finally do something to get banned because you’re so attention starved.

I only attack, in the actual sense of the word, those who attack others. I don't care about kooking because ingroup-focused boys' clubs are the most pathetic thing on the planet. I'm getting what I come here for just fine: links to awesome new skaters/videos, answers to things that cross my mind and Paul Hart of Bones. Irking Pontus was a bonus. And hopefully we get Cole of Zero by the end of this month.

I don't want to be popular, I'm simply asking not to be treated with verbal violence when I'm being merely annoying, not violent or discriminatory. I'm asking for you to see and act on the difference between me and, for example, tyroneshoelaces. I shouldn't have to play by your standards to have a right not to be told "fuck you, you suck".

I can't make it any clearer than that so I'll let this thread get back to it's actual topic. Fuck Netanyahu

[Mr. 9mm]

So does anyone think this is just an opinion?

Does anyone have the right to exist at the expense of someone else?

This dude is defintiely not 'just asking a question'. They are articulating a genocidal fantasy. Uncle Flea clearly sensed it.

And under the obvious biologistic reading that is implied by their wording this is indeed an antisemitic genocidal fantasy. 'Anyone that exists at the expense of someone else' is a paraphrase for being a 'parasite'.  And parasites need to be exterminated. This is what 'Does anyone have the right to exist at the expense of someone else?' translates to.

As such this 'question' is fully in line with its historical racist predecessor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Eternal_Jew_(film)

Now you could say, that the dude did not even intend for this reading. But that doesn't make it any better. This reading is there, and tolerating or championing it means to normalize antisemitic, genocidal narratives on this board. Because there are people that actually mean it this way. But wait, isn't here something like an anti-racist consensus enforced (remember 10/10 and phart)? Apparently not. Instead you get to read this in the same threat:

Since my constitutionally protected first amendment free speech is under attack thanks to this right wing extremist regime of Zionist Israel,  I would like to advise everyone to exercise your free speech in protest with me.

Fuck Zionist Israel and Fuck all Zionists.

And actually, this could have been posted word for word on an alt-right board. No one of the racists there would object. And they even have a name for what is expressed by such 'opinions': ZOG. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_Occupation_Government_conspiracy_theory
(And, actually, nowadays they indeed prefer the Z-word over the J-word.)

And I bet they would dig someone coming to new conclusions regarding 'Blood and Soil'. Maybe you can even score some funding from them for the little research project that was brought up in this threat:

https://www.nbcnews.com/sciencemain/most-ashkenazi-jews-are-genetically-europeans-surprising-study-finds-8c11358210

Can anyone help me find and allow me access to the study in question?

I am interested in analyzing it myself before coming to any conclusions.

So, anyone who thinks it only 'questions' that are asked and 'opinions' are expressed, be quick. Research is a race for money.

[slaab900turbo]

Plenty of genetic studies that show Ashkenaz jews are primarily descended from the same folks as middle eastern jews and closely related.  Cohenaim in particular are tightly related across Jewish groups.  I'd be happy to provide actual links if folks are interested.  0% genetic evidence that the "khazar theory' of Ashkenazi jews being descended from khazar converts true.

Missing the point though-- Judaism is a tribe.  Jews are not obsessed with Genes.  As a tribe, we descend from folks that were exiled from ancient Israel, with converts and adoptions mixed in. The fact that Ashkenazi jews (some) are part European and that yemenite jews part arab irrelevant.  It is a tribal ethno-religious group.

You aren't going to be able to kick us out of Israel and the comparisons to South Africa are absurd.

Hope everyone has been well!

Kind of like “you” did to the Palestinians…

[L33Tg33k]

Rights are imaginary.

[roba]

I've been bullied on here like it's 1990 because I don't filter myself around the judgements of an Internet forum. The fervor with which people have personally attacked me on here (with impunity) would make you think I spread transphobic slurs, but I dont. I'm just annoying, but that's reason enough on here. This is not primarily a place of compassion, kindness and honesty, the way youre trying to paint it - although these do exist and are beautiful and the reason I come back - but the dominant vibe is that of a mid 90s schoolyard group with a bunch of popular alpha jocks (are there any women on here at all?) and their gang of eager to please yesmen. I'm all for attacking (and banning) those that would deny others their freedom and right to exist. But if kindness is reserved for those accepted to the inner circle, it's not worth all that much. A lot of people on here are all about being just the right amount of cynically funny and boldly moralist when the target is sufficiently black and white.

I don't condone the hatefulness with which this user is attacking you and I feel your pain around the unfolding horror in the middle East, but I have to contradict the narrative that the main discourse on here is that of mutual kindness.

Also, watch out trying to find any "arguments" in genetical traits of Jewish people. That usually doesn't bode well. Much love, despite everything, from Germany

dude came to this very thread to talk about himself lol

but yeah i can't believe people don't like you on here, like what could possibly be the reason for that?!?

[b00tyclappa69420]

allright this is where you can make your case. For those who think a Jewish state has no right to exist, well explain your point.
My view is that 1, other people have no state. Palestine is no exception, it is simply a trendy cause, and it also attracts a lot of arab solidarity. Let me remind you that there are other people who have no state, like the berbers and the kurds. But strangely no one gives a fuck about them.
2 : Israel is the only democracy in the region. There is not one arab country with democracy, unfortunately.
3 : to explain my position a bit more, I have thought a lot about this conflict because France has Europe's largest Jewish AND muslim population. I have friends on both sides and unfortunately this conflict resonates in France a lot. We even had crazy fanatics like Mohammed Merah gunning down 8 year old kids in front of a Jewish school.

Finally: let's try to keep this civilized. 

Edit: totally forgot to explain this discussion started in the Ryan Lay Palestine thread

My homie made a great point about how israel is touted as "only liberal democracy in the middle east" like it's some sort of W for liberal democracies... when it's a huge fucking L for liberal democracies if they can still be a horrific genocidal/apartheid state doing some of the genuinely most evil shit we've seen for a long time, while being a liberal democracy. Oh so your shitty population voted for this genocide in free and fair elections? give me a fucking break

[The real veganshawn]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/22/europe/norway-ireland-spain-palestinian-state-analysis-intl/index.html

Interesting

[Pintofguinness]

Bibis father (Benzion Netanyahu), revisionists more specifically Irguns and the bombing of king David hotel are all things worth while looking into for context of the history of modern day Israel I’d say
If one is interested

[slaab900turbo]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/poll-75-of-jewish-israelis-back-rafah-operation/#:~:text=A%20new%20poll%20finds%20that%20around%20three-quarters%20of,with%20Hamas%2C%20while%20two-thirds%20of%20Arab%20respondents%20disagree.

It is scary to imagine the mindset of a population that supports this.

[The real veganshawn]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/poll-75-of-jewish-israelis-back-rafah-operation/#:~:text=A%20new%20poll%20finds%20that%20around%20three-quarters%20of,with%20Hamas%2C%20while%20two-thirds%20of%20Arab%20respondents%20disagree.

It is scary to imagine the mindset of a population that supports this.

So scary

[Alan]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/24/icj-orders-israel-to-halt-rafah-offensive-new-ruling

"The president of the international court of justice, Nawaf Salam, said the humanitarian situation in Rafah had deteriorated further and was now classified as “disastrous”, meaning the ICJ’s previously issued provisional measures “do not fully address the consequences arising from the change in the situation”.

He said the court had voted by a majority of 13 votes to two that “Israel shall, in conformity with its obligations under the convention on the prevention and punishment of the crime of genocide, and in view of the worsening conditions of life faced by civilians in Rafah governorate … immediately halt its military offensive and any other action in the Rafah governorate which may inflict on the Palestinian group in Gaza conditions of life that would bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part”."

[slaab900turbo]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13451089/The-father-son-Hamas-rapists-Terrorists-going-house-house-carrying-sex-attacks-murder-One-screamed-cried-father-raped-did-cousin-did-father-killed-her.html

Yes, so scary a population supports a war after this happened... For the Israeli haters here, try not to get too excited by the above.

You’re a troll on this topic and your posts serve no other purpose than to infuriate anyone with a shred of decency. Ignore button utilized.

[ungzilla]

you're so fucking stupid

[slaab900turbo]

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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13451089/The-father-son-Hamas-rapists-Terrorists-going-house-house-carrying-sex-attacks-murder-One-screamed-cried-father-raped-did-cousin-did-father-killed-her.html

Yes, so scary a population supports a war after this happened... For the Israeli haters here, try not to get too excited by the above.

[close]

You’re a troll on this topic and your posts serve no other purpose than to infuriate anyone with a shred of decency. Ignore button utilized.

[close]

Makes sense-- I posted evidence of rape and abuse of women (as you've been saying didn't occur), so I need to be ignored.  Cannot see anything that runs counter to the narrative you have been sold.

There is no proof of grapes or SA’s from a reliable source and Israel has zero credibility at this time. I’m sure any confession these men gave was after IDF torture. Even if 2 men committed these acts this doesn’t justify Israel’s disproportionate response to kill 30,000+ civilians and starve millions. The DailyMail is a rag sheet. Admit you’re a shitbag Zio who is ok with the indiscriminate bombing and calculated starvation of civilians and move on. You don’t deserve civil discourse at this point.

[Dont]

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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13451089/The-father-son-Hamas-rapists-Terrorists-going-house-house-carrying-sex-attacks-murder-One-screamed-cried-father-raped-did-cousin-did-father-killed-her.html

Yes, so scary a population supports a war after this happened... For the Israeli haters here, try not to get too excited by the above.

[close]

You’re a troll on this topic and your posts serve no other purpose than to infuriate anyone with a shred of decency. Ignore button utilized.

[close]

Makes sense-- I posted evidence of rape and abuse of women (as you've been saying didn't occur), so I need to be ignored.  Cannot see anything that runs counter to the narrative you have been sold.

[close]

There is no proof of grapes or SA’s from a reliable source and Israel has zero credibility at this time. I’m sure any confession these men gave was after IDF torture. Even if 2 men committed these acts this doesn’t justify Israel’s disproportionate response to kill 30,000+ civilians and starve millions. The DailyMail is a rag sheet. Admit you’re a shitbag Zio who is ok with the indiscriminate bombing and calculated starvation of civilians and move on. You don’t deserve civil discourse at this point.

What are you smoking. Have you seen the GoPro footage?