Adidas Closing Shop Accounts

[90sDamiano]

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The core vs corpo shit is pretty beat at this point

I think the real underlying problem is that core shops aren’t treated well enough and imo are just as important to the story of skating as the brands

Shops are (used to be?) the face of skating. Most people can’t walk into primitive and prod is at the front desk ready to answer your questions but skate shop owners usually are.

I’d rather get cool guyed in person at a shop than buy into some fake ass internet persona that’s just trying to sell me shit Anyway

[close]

Word, I see what your saying. I rather know you don’t fuck with me than that fake skater friend shit.

[close]

Exactly atleast in person when I’m getting laughed at for buying 100 dollar shoes they paid 30 for it’s understood.

I guess most people can’t handle that and need the shiny ball put in their face so they feel better

Yes! Haha so true

[cherry]

It only make sense for adidas to close core shop accounts like one up because they don’t deem them essential to the brands image and they can under cut one ups market share.

If adidas makes their shoe for 7 dollars and they can sell direct to one up customers for 100 it’s simple math

They r just aiming at select targets now trying to make up for sales


All this reminds me of being 3 years old at grand parents making Xmas gifts.

We were sewing clothes for a bear. She had me cut out these freyed triangle patterns along leather. She kept trying to sew these 3 stripes onto the shoe. When I asked why she said it’s a popular brand and people pay good money for the design. I was very confused still am

[90sDamiano]

I bought two pairs of states really wanting to support them and they super stiff/uncomfortable and the bottom is slippery.

Have tried giving them away. Anytime someone tries them on they decline takin them for free

For how badly I want to support that company I CANT wear them. Don’t know how their team does

This is super disappointing because I too was interested in this brand and hoping for the best. The fact you can’t give them away speaks volumes

[90sDamiano]

It only make sense for adidas to close core shop accounts like one up because they don’t deem them essential to the brands image and they can under cut one ups market share.

If adidas makes their shoe for 7 dollars and they can sell direct to one up customers for 100 it’s simple math

They r just aiming at select targets now trying to make up for sales


All this reminds me of being 3 years old at grand parents making Xmas gifts.

We were sewing clothes for a bear. She had me cut out these freyed triangle patterns along leather. She kept trying to sew these 3 stripes onto the shoe. When I asked why she said it’s a popular brand and people pay good money for the design. I was very confused still am

True, it’s unfortunate. My local just got their converse account cut. Seems to be common practice when times are as rough as these.
That sounds like a wholesome way to spend time with your family during the holidays. If you had a pic of the bear that would be sick to see it with little adidas on lol Thanks for sharing that

[silhouette]

You came at me so I had to clap back G, the fact you purposely skate states gave the the inclination that you are a support skater own businesses by any means type or the I’m broke so I guess they’ll do type. If I’m wrong so be it, but you definitely tried to make me out to be some kind of monster when in fact I’m promoting you, the individual. The individual need be solid before they can contribute to anything. As for things like spending habits and conscious buying we can be here all day and never spend a dime on anything because most thing are unethically sourced and someone is getting short handed somewhere. That’s why in the world we live in we need to be aware of the things that we can control, which is ourselves, the individual.

Again I never came at you and only asked you questions pertaining to points that intrigued me, which I don't think is even close to antagonizing you, but no need to bring this up again (I even missed it whenever it was that you 'clapped'). One more thing I'm intrigued by now is how it's possible to chant individuality yet be dubious that someone might skate State because they just so happen to like State (not because they're poor or into politics), and also to not give a shit about the big names that represent a skateboarding that has absolutely nothing to do with the reality of theirs. And that's including, in those big names, many that love to flaunt the phrase 'skater-owned' as it keeps their credibility afloat; and 'support your local skateshop' is on the exact same level of tired too, by the way, judging from the number of absolutely horrible so-called skateshops I've seen rely on it as an excuse to really not do shit for their scene but selling Thrasher shirts and Pizza boards - it's the exact same abuse. So again the topic is not that black and white is all I'm saying, and have been meaning to say.

And now obviously everything is corrupted to a degree but in reality different options bring different tangible consequences and, again, the world being a general mess is never a reason to give up on critical thinking altogether - that's two-wrongs-make-a-right logic - and succumb to automatic, mindless consumption; otherwise that's a victory of the instinctual on the rational and exactly when the individual dies.

[90sDamiano]

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You came at me so I had to clap back G, the fact you purposely skate states gave the the inclination that you are a support skater own businesses by any means type or the I’m broke so I guess they’ll do type. If I’m wrong so be it, but you definitely tried to make me out to be some kind of monster when in fact I’m promoting you, the individual. The individual need be solid before they can contribute to anything. As for things like spending habits and conscious buying we can be here all day and never spend a dime on anything because most thing are unethically sourced and someone is getting short handed somewhere. That’s why in the world we live in we need to be aware of the things that we can control, which is ourselves, the individual.

[close]

Again I never came at you and only asked you questions pertaining to points that intrigued me, which I don't think is even close to antagonizing you, but no need to bring this up again (I even missed it whenever it was that you 'clapped'). One more thing I'm intrigued by now is how it's possible to chant individuality yet be dubious that someone might skate State because they just to happen to like State (not because they're poor or into politics) and also to not give a shit about the big names that represent a skateboarding that has absolutely nothing to do with the reality of theirs, like that does make them in the wrong. And that's including many that love to flaunt the phrase 'skater-owned' as it keeps their credibility afloat; and 'support your local skateshop' is on the exact same level of tired too, by the way, judging from the number of absolutely horrible so-called skateshops I've seen rely on it as an excuse to really not do shit, it's the exact same abuse. So again the topic is not that black and white.

And now obviously everything is corrupted to a degree but in reality different options bring different tangible consequences and, again, the world being a general mess is never a reason to give up on critical thinking altogether - that's two-wrongs-make-a-right logic - and succumb to automatic, mindless consumption; otherwise that's a victory of the instinctual on the rational and exactly when the individual dies.

If you think I haven’t put thought in why I choose to purchase what I choose to purchase after the paragraphs of shit I’ve written idk what to tell you. I even stated that I could be wrong about my assumptions of the person who rides state shoes. They could genuinely like the shoes just cause they are shoes that work for them and that’s fine. Trust me I know exactly what you’re talking about when it comes to shitty shops. I’ve actually worked at quite a few shops across the country. The reason you should support your local is because there are connections made at these locations that are extremely valuable. Can they be made in other settings? Of course, but I do remember being a little kid and meeting up with skaters in the area at the local shop. The fact that we can write so much about this is clear indication that is not black and white. But to not acknowledge the clear difference in quality and contribution when it come to  most of these “skater owned” shoe brands is kinda insane. Someone else just said he couldn’t give a pair away!   I feel like you’re trying really hard, especially that last part. These are just my opinions and by no means am I telling you what to do. I honestly wish the best for State and all these other brands, but I will not be buying them as they are now. If I offended you it wasn’t my intention.

[silhouette]

Yeah honestly I've been trying really hard to just shoot the shit, I feel like every time I've genuinely asked you a general question with no big weight to it it's been taken as a personal challenge or confrontation when in reality your character never once even entered the equation, for instance here I never brought up your own habits, why would I and what the fuck would I even know.

For skateshops I'm honestly still skeptical about the validity of the phrase (of course not of the concept) because although the potential is always there for hard-working passionate skaters to run something great for the local community (and thankfully many still do), there's also a shit ton of them who just ride the skate hype train to cash in on selling shoes with no humanity in the approach whatsoever and only spoil kids with logos in the end; in a way 'support your local skateshop' as a saying is almost an insult to the ones who don't need it to have their role speak for themselves. It shouldn't need to exist for people to actually do it (but I guess we're that stupid and it's all the more welcome in the context of the pandemic), in general I'd rather see people rely on logic and common sense instead of following catchphrases.

Regarding quality, to each their own, like I was saying States have always performed way better than Adidas and Vans to me, people will have varying experiences with different models and the comments on here constantly prove that, so I don't think comparing performance is that unreasonable; about contribution, that's totally up to whoever benefits from it to appreciate it, unless one has worked for (and not just with) the big names they have zero idea how much they actually pay people besides whatever's going on in their own fantasy land, recently a few in particular indirectly killed a bunch of small mags by using Covid as an excuse to get their yearly advertising budget back and then redirect it elsewhere in their marketing with no shits given about the impact on the culture (as expected here), I have many stories of people getting laid off for things like suddenly looking too old with no regard for their current life situation, freelancers are getting fucked over the same as you've heard they used to be by the most prehistoric skater-owned companies. So yeah they may be funding skateparks in the richest cities in the world, paying a handful of athletes on the planet the skate equivalent of soccer money and releasing an impressive amount of uninteresting ads a year but as far as I'm concerned I don't really see any positives around me, especially as they keep killing the alternatives. I think a lot of the problem resides in how those structures are by definition too big and complex to successfully get to communicate with the average skateboarder, regardless of the professionalism of their PR's (which only means so much when they can sell in malls instead, and yes I'm aware State also has to sell in Zumiez in consequence and it pisses me off).

No offense intended either, again, I'm just laying random food for thought on the table and your person has nothing to do with this (I was intrigued by your logic at first, but you've clarified enough).

[ChuckRamone]

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The skate industry is a fucking joke and if you think that “skater owner” means they care about you then you’re delusional. Lakai doesn’t give a fuck that I literally couldn’t even walk in that Manchester reissue cause there is zero heel support. They’re laughing to the bank while y’all police each other into what you should be wearing. As for corporate brands, they are trying to make the best possible product they can to rule a market. They are in competition with themselves and their peers, which resulted in some of the most iconic designs that have been tested by multiple different athletes of all kinds of different disciplines. (And no I’m not a “jock” I was actually first chair clarinet all thru high school  ) There’s a reason why the superstar, Stan Smith, samba, dunk, blazer, Chuck Taylor, ect have been in production for generations. They are tried and true. Why wouldn’t you want to wear a shoe that has stood the test of time? Ill tell you why, Mob mentality. If you’re not one of us you’re against us mentality which, imo, is how supremacy is born. This way of thinking is directly related to how skaters interact with each other on a micro level as well. It bleeds into our social interaction with other skaters who may differ in the way they look or dress. In the end it’s purposeful ignorance, which was funny to watch at first but now it’s just plain sad and it honestly pins us against each other more than you would think. At the end of the day skate in what you think is the best shoe for your skateboarding cause as Waka Flaka once said
“fuck this industry, bitch I’m in these streets”

[close]

When did anyone say this? That skating should stay under the control of skaters is not a sentimental argument. It's a practical one.

[close]

How so? What is so practical about it?

[close]

Why the fuck would skaters want outsiders influencing and controlling skateboarding? Are cool sneakers really worth relinquishing any or all of that power? I don't know about you but that sounds like a bad idea.

[close]

First off it is us who influences them. Secondly the way our economic system is set up it will inevitably become the haves and have nots. Either way you are just a customer to either side. Nothing more nothing less. I rather have control of my own decisions then be pigeon holed into what I can and cannot buy. Skaters have been skating in whatever the fuck they wanted for as long as it’s been around. It is the skate industry that tricked you into thinking u need skate specific footwear that is lower quality than what has been around for decades. It’s actually pretty smart if you’re just trying to make a buck. But again you should skate in whatever works for you. Let them fight over our money   

[close]

That sounds more naive what you were pointing out. Eventually, once they've established enough of a foothold, they will not only influence skateboarding but control it. And corporate influence is never good for a subculture. It always subsumes and destroys all subcultures and spits out things like Blink-182 and Creed. In response to your later post, I don't understand how trying to buy skater owned is the same as a Ponzi scheme. This is not investment advice. It's an opinion about consumerism and how it affects skateboarding.

[close]

What you’re scared of has already happened! Skateboardings purest form is just that, skateboarding nothing more. Imo the subculture has been commodified way before we even started skating(I hate to assume your age but I’m pretty sure you’re not a 50 year old person) It’s not underground anymore. It’s an Olympic sport, corporately backed by this energy drink and that whatever the heck makes money. And I can name like 4 current pros that can be compared to the likes of Blink-182 and Creed lol
The insta cash app comment was more of a joke but there are slight comparisons. Like believing that the money you spend on skater owner shoes is going to come back to you in some other maybe less tangible but just as valued way is kinda funny

It would be cool if you weren't scared to post under your usual username. Probably a bad look though white knighting for corporations. Also rich that you're accusing others of straw manning when every single one of your points is exactly that, or emotion-filled rhetoric and complete distortions.

[Far from relevant]

So I have no idea of what kind of a profit margin a shop makes off the sale of a Nike or Adidas shoe but is this what keeps alot of these shops going ? I think we will see alot of retail business not just skate shops shutting down for the same reason you can buy online directly from the manufacturer. I'm not saying this doesn't suck because I know how important core shops are for maintaining a scene and community for skateboarding in your city. But at the end of the day its just a sign of changing times.

Also I wonder if Dill knew the FAxAdidas collab would fall in line with this, very ironic.

[90sDamiano]

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The skate industry is a fucking joke and if you think that “skater owner” means they care about you then you’re delusional. Lakai doesn’t give a fuck that I literally couldn’t even walk in that Manchester reissue cause there is zero heel support. They’re laughing to the bank while y’all police each other into what you should be wearing. As for corporate brands, they are trying to make the best possible product they can to rule a market. They are in competition with themselves and their peers, which resulted in some of the most iconic designs that have been tested by multiple different athletes of all kinds of different disciplines. (And no I’m not a “jock” I was actually first chair clarinet all thru high school  ) There’s a reason why the superstar, Stan Smith, samba, dunk, blazer, Chuck Taylor, ect have been in production for generations. They are tried and true. Why wouldn’t you want to wear a shoe that has stood the test of time? Ill tell you why, Mob mentality. If you’re not one of us you’re against us mentality which, imo, is how supremacy is born. This way of thinking is directly related to how skaters interact with each other on a micro level as well. It bleeds into our social interaction with other skaters who may differ in the way they look or dress. In the end it’s purposeful ignorance, which was funny to watch at first but now it’s just plain sad and it honestly pins us against each other more than you would think. At the end of the day skate in what you think is the best shoe for your skateboarding cause as Waka Flaka once said
“fuck this industry, bitch I’m in these streets”

[close]

When did anyone say this? That skating should stay under the control of skaters is not a sentimental argument. It's a practical one.

[close]

How so? What is so practical about it?

[close]

Why the fuck would skaters want outsiders influencing and controlling skateboarding? Are cool sneakers really worth relinquishing any or all of that power? I don't know about you but that sounds like a bad idea.

[close]

First off it is us who influences them. Secondly the way our economic system is set up it will inevitably become the haves and have nots. Either way you are just a customer to either side. Nothing more nothing less. I rather have control of my own decisions then be pigeon holed into what I can and cannot buy. Skaters have been skating in whatever the fuck they wanted for as long as it’s been around. It is the skate industry that tricked you into thinking u need skate specific footwear that is lower quality than what has been around for decades. It’s actually pretty smart if you’re just trying to make a buck. But again you should skate in whatever works for you. Let them fight over our money   

[close]

That sounds more naive what you were pointing out. Eventually, once they've established enough of a foothold, they will not only influence skateboarding but control it. And corporate influence is never good for a subculture. It always subsumes and destroys all subcultures and spits out things like Blink-182 and Creed. In response to your later post, I don't understand how trying to buy skater owned is the same as a Ponzi scheme. This is not investment advice. It's an opinion about consumerism and how it affects skateboarding.

[close]

What you’re scared of has already happened! Skateboardings purest form is just that, skateboarding nothing more. Imo the subculture has been commodified way before we even started skating(I hate to assume your age but I’m pretty sure you’re not a 50 year old person) It’s not underground anymore. It’s an Olympic sport, corporately backed by this energy drink and that whatever the heck makes money. And I can name like 4 current pros that can be compared to the likes of Blink-182 and Creed lol
The insta cash app comment was more of a joke but there are slight comparisons. Like believing that the money you spend on skater owner shoes is going to come back to you in some other maybe less tangible but just as valued way is kinda funny

[close]

It would be cool if you weren't scared to post under your usual username. Probably a bad look though white knighting for corporations. Also rich that you're accusing others of straw manning when every single one of your points is exactly that, or emotion-filled rhetoric and complete distortions.

I stayed on topic this whole time and I’m not emotional at all. If I’m stirring emotion in you as your read my post then that means my words are moving you and hopefully I got you to open your mind a little bit. Also this is my only account so idk what you’re talking about lol All I’m saying is to just purchase something because it’s skater owned might not be in your best interest as an individual. But by all means spend your money on you see fit. If my explanation of why a company would close an account doesn’t make sense to you then that’s ok too. But I do know what I’m taking about and if you like to bring up valid points that aren’t stabs at my character then I’m more than happy to have a discussion with you

[90sDamiano]

Yeah honestly I've been trying really hard to just shoot the shit, I feel like every time I've genuinely asked you a general question with no big weight to it it's been taken as a personal challenge or confrontation when in reality your character never once even entered the equation, for instance here I never brought up your own habits, why would I and what the fuck would I even know.

For skateshops I'm honestly still skeptical about the validity of the phrase (of course not of the concept) because although the potential is always there for hard-working passionate skaters to run something great for the local community (and thankfully many still do), there's also a shit ton of them who just ride the skate hype train to cash in on selling shoes with no humanity in the approach whatsoever and only spoil kids with logos in the end; in a way 'support your local skateshop' as a saying is almost an insult to the ones who don't need it to have their role speak for themselves. It shouldn't need to exist for people to actually do it (but I guess we're that stupid and it's all the more welcome in the context of the pandemic), in general I'd rather see people rely on logic and common sense instead of following catchphrases.

Regarding quality, to each their own, like I was saying States have always performed way better than Adidas and Vans to me, people will have varying experiences with different models and the comments on here constantly prove that, so I don't think comparing performance is that unreasonable; about contribution, that's totally up to whoever benefits from it to appreciate it, unless one has worked for (and not just with) the big names they have zero idea how much they actually pay people besides whatever's going on in their own fantasy land, recently a few in particular indirectly killed a bunch of small mags by using Covid as an excuse to get their yearly advertising budget back and then redirect it elsewhere in their marketing with no shits given about the impact on the culture (as expected here), I have many stories of people getting laid off for things like suddenly looking too old with no regard for their current life situation, freelancers are getting fucked over the same as you've heard they used to be by the most prehistoric skater-owned companies. So yeah they may be funding skateparks in the richest cities in the world, paying a handful of athletes on the planet the skate equivalent of soccer money and releasing an impressive amount of uninteresting ads a year but as far as I'm concerned I don't really see any positives around me, especially as they keep killing the alternatives. I think a lot of the problem resides in how those structures are by definition too big and complex to successfully get to communicate with the average skateboarder, regardless of the professionalism of their PR's (which only means so much when they can sell in malls instead, and yes I'm aware State also has to sell in Zumiez in consequence and it pisses me off).

No offense intended either, again, I'm just laying random food for thought on the table and your person has nothing to do with this (I was intrigued by your logic at first, but you've clarified enough).

Maybe because I just can grasp what you’re trying to say friend. It’s ok, but you did try to come at my character and now you’re trying to make it seem like you’re just trying to shoot the shit. Every response you youve made has been mostly incoherent and doesn’t really bring much to the conversation at hand. But I do respect your opinion hence why I’ve read every single word you’ve written. Ive never said that skaters shouldn’t start businesses or that they should blindly follow “catchphrases”. I’ve actually been saying the exact opposite of that so again I’m not sure what you’re trying to say. At the end of the day you, the individual is what matters the most. If there is anything anyone can take away from what I written in this god forsaken thread is that the individual and their sovereignty is the most important thing in, dare I say, THE WORLD! Now go out there and be you! 

[90sDamiano]

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The skate industry is a fucking joke and if you think that “skater owner” means they care about you then you’re delusional. Lakai doesn’t give a fuck that I literally couldn’t even walk in that Manchester reissue cause there is zero heel support. They’re laughing to the bank while y’all police each other into what you should be wearing. As for corporate brands, they are trying to make the best possible product they can to rule a market. They are in competition with themselves and their peers, which resulted in some of the most iconic designs that have been tested by multiple different athletes of all kinds of different disciplines. (And no I’m not a “jock” I was actually first chair clarinet all thru high school  ) There’s a reason why the superstar, Stan Smith, samba, dunk, blazer, Chuck Taylor, ect have been in production for generations. They are tried and true. Why wouldn’t you want to wear a shoe that has stood the test of time? Ill tell you why, Mob mentality. If you’re not one of us you’re against us mentality which, imo, is how supremacy is born. This way of thinking is directly related to how skaters interact with each other on a micro level as well. It bleeds into our social interaction with other skaters who may differ in the way they look or dress. In the end it’s purposeful ignorance, which was funny to watch at first but now it’s just plain sad and it honestly pins us against each other more than you would think. At the end of the day skate in what you think is the best shoe for your skateboarding cause as Waka Flaka once said
“fuck this industry, bitch I’m in these streets”

[close]

When did anyone say this? That skating should stay under the control of skaters is not a sentimental argument. It's a practical one.

[close]

How so? What is so practical about it?

[close]

Why the fuck would skaters want outsiders influencing and controlling skateboarding? Are cool sneakers really worth relinquishing any or all of that power? I don't know about you but that sounds like a bad idea.

[close]

First off it is us who influences them. Secondly the way our economic system is set up it will inevitably become the haves and have nots. Either way you are just a customer to either side. Nothing more nothing less. I rather have control of my own decisions then be pigeon holed into what I can and cannot buy. Skaters have been skating in whatever the fuck they wanted for as long as it’s been around. It is the skate industry that tricked you into thinking u need skate specific footwear that is lower quality than what has been around for decades. It’s actually pretty smart if you’re just trying to make a buck. But again you should skate in whatever works for you. Let them fight over our money   

[close]

That sounds more naive what you were pointing out. Eventually, once they've established enough of a foothold, they will not only influence skateboarding but control it. And corporate influence is never good for a subculture. It always subsumes and destroys all subcultures and spits out things like Blink-182 and Creed. In response to your later post, I don't understand how trying to buy skater owned is the same as a Ponzi scheme. This is not investment advice. It's an opinion about consumerism and how it affects skateboarding.

[close]

What you’re scared of has already happened! Skateboardings purest form is just that, skateboarding nothing more. Imo the subculture has been commodified way before we even started skating(I hate to assume your age but I’m pretty sure you’re not a 50 year old person) It’s not underground anymore. It’s an Olympic sport, corporately backed by this energy drink and that whatever the heck makes money. And I can name like 4 current pros that can be compared to the likes of Blink-182 and Creed lol
The insta cash app comment was more of a joke but there are slight comparisons. Like believing that the money you spend on skater owner shoes is going to come back to you in some other maybe less tangible but just as valued way is kinda funny

[close]

It would be cool if you weren't scared to post under your usual username. Probably a bad look though white knighting for corporations. Also rich that you're accusing others of straw manning when every single one of your points is exactly that, or emotion-filled rhetoric and complete distortions.

If you’d like to contribute to my negative rep please I encourage it. I don’t really post much on this forum but I thought I’d contribute to this topic because I feel like I have an understanding that my differ from the norm but I truly believe there is some validity in what I’ve said here. Mostly because I can’t get anyone to pose an idea that makes sense, all I’m getting is hate which is a by product of moving so freely. People hate when you move like water, they hate it even more when you proudly announce it

[90sDamiano]

Yeah honestly I've been trying really hard to just shoot the shit, I feel like every time I've genuinely asked you a general question with no big weight to it it's been taken as a personal challenge or confrontation when in reality your character never once even entered the equation, for instance here I never brought up your own habits, why would I and what the fuck would I even know.

For skateshops I'm honestly still skeptical about the validity of the phrase (of course not of the concept) because although the potential is always there for hard-working passionate skaters to run something great for the local community (and thankfully many still do), there's also a shit ton of them who just ride the skate hype train to cash in on selling shoes with no humanity in the approach whatsoever and only spoil kids with logos in the end; in a way 'support your local skateshop' as a saying is almost an insult to the ones who don't need it to have their role speak for themselves. It shouldn't need to exist for people to actually do it (but I guess we're that stupid and it's all the more welcome in the context of the pandemic), in general I'd rather see people rely on logic and common sense instead of following catchphrases.

Regarding quality, to each their own, like I was saying States have always performed way better than Adidas and Vans to me, people will have varying experiences with different models and the comments on here constantly prove that, so I don't think comparing performance is that unreasonable; about contribution, that's totally up to whoever benefits from it to appreciate it, unless one has worked for (and not just with) the big names they have zero idea how much they actually pay people besides whatever's going on in their own fantasy land, recently a few in particular indirectly killed a bunch of small mags by using Covid as an excuse to get their yearly advertising budget back and then redirect it elsewhere in their marketing with no shits given about the impact on the culture (as expected here), I have many stories of people getting laid off for things like suddenly looking too old with no regard for their current life situation, freelancers are getting fucked over the same as you've heard they used to be by the most prehistoric skater-owned companies. So yeah they may be funding skateparks in the richest cities in the world, paying a handful of athletes on the planet the skate equivalent of soccer money and releasing an impressive amount of uninteresting ads a year but as far as I'm concerned I don't really see any positives around me, especially as they keep killing the alternatives. I think a lot of the problem resides in how those structures are by definition too big and complex to successfully get to communicate with the average skateboarder, regardless of the professionalism of their PR's (which only means so much when they can sell in malls instead, and yes I'm aware State also has to sell in Zumiez in consequence and it pisses me off).

No offense intended either, again, I'm just laying random food for thought on the table and your person has nothing to do with this (I was intrigued by your logic at first, but you've clarified enough).

I remember going to the doctor because I had bone spurs in my heel. I walked in wearing a pair of skater owned shoes. The doctor told me to take my shoe off and showed me why the shoes are no good for me. When he showed me that I was literally standing on cardboard I was amazed. I can assure you that there are clear and obvious differences in the quality of most shoes that are skater owned and other brands who just make footwear and the fact that you think it’s up for debate is crazy to me. It’s not subjective, it’s cold hard facts that even a doctor would tell you to stop wearing those things. But again to each their own, skate bare foot for all I care.   

[90sDamiano]

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The skate industry is a fucking joke and if you think that “skater owner” means they care about you then you’re delusional. Lakai doesn’t give a fuck that I literally couldn’t even walk in that Manchester reissue cause there is zero heel support. They’re laughing to the bank while y’all police each other into what you should be wearing. As for corporate brands, they are trying to make the best possible product they can to rule a market. They are in competition with themselves and their peers, which resulted in some of the most iconic designs that have been tested by multiple different athletes of all kinds of different disciplines. (And no I’m not a “jock” I was actually first chair clarinet all thru high school  ) There’s a reason why the superstar, Stan Smith, samba, dunk, blazer, Chuck Taylor, ect have been in production for generations. They are tried and true. Why wouldn’t you want to wear a shoe that has stood the test of time? Ill tell you why, Mob mentality. If you’re not one of us you’re against us mentality which, imo, is how supremacy is born. This way of thinking is directly related to how skaters interact with each other on a micro level as well. It bleeds into our social interaction with other skaters who may differ in the way they look or dress. In the end it’s purposeful ignorance, which was funny to watch at first but now it’s just plain sad and it honestly pins us against each other more than you would think. At the end of the day skate in what you think is the best shoe for your skateboarding cause as Waka Flaka once said
“fuck this industry, bitch I’m in these streets”

[close]

When did anyone say this? That skating should stay under the control of skaters is not a sentimental argument. It's a practical one.

[close]

How so? What is so practical about it?

[close]

Why the fuck would skaters want outsiders influencing and controlling skateboarding? Are cool sneakers really worth relinquishing any or all of that power? I don't know about you but that sounds like a bad idea.

[close]

First off it is us who influences them. Secondly the way our economic system is set up it will inevitably become the haves and have nots. Either way you are just a customer to either side. Nothing more nothing less. I rather have control of my own decisions then be pigeon holed into what I can and cannot buy. Skaters have been skating in whatever the fuck they wanted for as long as it’s been around. It is the skate industry that tricked you into thinking u need skate specific footwear that is lower quality than what has been around for decades. It’s actually pretty smart if you’re just trying to make a buck. But again you should skate in whatever works for you. Let them fight over our money   

[close]

That sounds more naive what you were pointing out. Eventually, once they've established enough of a foothold, they will not only influence skateboarding but control it. And corporate influence is never good for a subculture. It always subsumes and destroys all subcultures and spits out things like Blink-182 and Creed. In response to your later post, I don't understand how trying to buy skater owned is the same as a Ponzi scheme. This is not investment advice. It's an opinion about consumerism and how it affects skateboarding.

[close]

What you’re scared of has already happened! Skateboardings purest form is just that, skateboarding nothing more. Imo the subculture has been commodified way before we even started skating(I hate to assume your age but I’m pretty sure you’re not a 50 year old person) It’s not underground anymore. It’s an Olympic sport, corporately backed by this energy drink and that whatever the heck makes money. And I can name like 4 current pros that can be compared to the likes of Blink-182 and Creed lol
The insta cash app comment was more of a joke but there are slight comparisons. Like believing that the money you spend on skater owner shoes is going to come back to you in some other maybe less tangible but just as valued way is kinda funny

[close]

It would be cool if you weren't scared to post under your usual username. Probably a bad look though white knighting for corporations. Also rich that you're accusing others of straw manning when every single one of your points is exactly that, or emotion-filled rhetoric and complete distortions.

I don’t have an ounce of fear in my body when it comes to this silly forum,  so much so that my name is in my username 

[ChuckRamone]

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The skate industry is a fucking joke and if you think that “skater owner” means they care about you then you’re delusional. Lakai doesn’t give a fuck that I literally couldn’t even walk in that Manchester reissue cause there is zero heel support. They’re laughing to the bank while y’all police each other into what you should be wearing. As for corporate brands, they are trying to make the best possible product they can to rule a market. They are in competition with themselves and their peers, which resulted in some of the most iconic designs that have been tested by multiple different athletes of all kinds of different disciplines. (And no I’m not a “jock” I was actually first chair clarinet all thru high school  ) There’s a reason why the superstar, Stan Smith, samba, dunk, blazer, Chuck Taylor, ect have been in production for generations. They are tried and true. Why wouldn’t you want to wear a shoe that has stood the test of time? Ill tell you why, Mob mentality. If you’re not one of us you’re against us mentality which, imo, is how supremacy is born. This way of thinking is directly related to how skaters interact with each other on a micro level as well. It bleeds into our social interaction with other skaters who may differ in the way they look or dress. In the end it’s purposeful ignorance, which was funny to watch at first but now it’s just plain sad and it honestly pins us against each other more than you would think. At the end of the day skate in what you think is the best shoe for your skateboarding cause as Waka Flaka once said
“fuck this industry, bitch I’m in these streets”

[close]

When did anyone say this? That skating should stay under the control of skaters is not a sentimental argument. It's a practical one.

[close]

How so? What is so practical about it?

[close]

Why the fuck would skaters want outsiders influencing and controlling skateboarding? Are cool sneakers really worth relinquishing any or all of that power? I don't know about you but that sounds like a bad idea.

[close]

First off it is us who influences them. Secondly the way our economic system is set up it will inevitably become the haves and have nots. Either way you are just a customer to either side. Nothing more nothing less. I rather have control of my own decisions then be pigeon holed into what I can and cannot buy. Skaters have been skating in whatever the fuck they wanted for as long as it’s been around. It is the skate industry that tricked you into thinking u need skate specific footwear that is lower quality than what has been around for decades. It’s actually pretty smart if you’re just trying to make a buck. But again you should skate in whatever works for you. Let them fight over our money   

[close]

That sounds more naive what you were pointing out. Eventually, once they've established enough of a foothold, they will not only influence skateboarding but control it. And corporate influence is never good for a subculture. It always subsumes and destroys all subcultures and spits out things like Blink-182 and Creed. In response to your later post, I don't understand how trying to buy skater owned is the same as a Ponzi scheme. This is not investment advice. It's an opinion about consumerism and how it affects skateboarding.

[close]

What you’re scared of has already happened! Skateboardings purest form is just that, skateboarding nothing more. Imo the subculture has been commodified way before we even started skating(I hate to assume your age but I’m pretty sure you’re not a 50 year old person) It’s not underground anymore. It’s an Olympic sport, corporately backed by this energy drink and that whatever the heck makes money. And I can name like 4 current pros that can be compared to the likes of Blink-182 and Creed lol
The insta cash app comment was more of a joke but there are slight comparisons. Like believing that the money you spend on skater owner shoes is going to come back to you in some other maybe less tangible but just as valued way is kinda funny

[close]

It would be cool if you weren't scared to post under your usual username. Probably a bad look though white knighting for corporations. Also rich that you're accusing others of straw manning when every single one of your points is exactly that, or emotion-filled rhetoric and complete distortions.

[close]

I stayed on topic this whole time and I’m not emotional at all. If I’m stirring emotion in you as your read my post then that means my words are moving you and hopefully I got you to open your mind a little bit. Also this is my only account so idk what you’re talking about lol All I’m saying is to just purchase something because it’s skater owned might not be in your best interest as an individual. But by all means spend your money on you see fit. If my explanation of why a company would close an account doesn’t make sense to you then that’s ok too. But I do know what I’m taking about and if you like to bring up valid points that aren’t stabs at my character then I’m more than happy to have a discussion with you

You were saying earlier that people saying buy skater owned felt that core companies cared about them. 100% straw man. You're also bringing up the old ethics issues with sweat shops when no one said core companies are innocent of that either. Another straw man. You also go back and forth between attacking and trying to sound reasonable and wounded by personal attacks, which is very manipulative. Skaters should support skater owned to keep skating under the control of skaters. Anything else you tack on to that, such as "Ponzi schemes" and individualism, are distractions and distortions.

[90sDamiano]

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The skate industry is a fucking joke and if you think that “skater owner” means they care about you then you’re delusional. Lakai doesn’t give a fuck that I literally couldn’t even walk in that Manchester reissue cause there is zero heel support. They’re laughing to the bank while y’all police each other into what you should be wearing. As for corporate brands, they are trying to make the best possible product they can to rule a market. They are in competition with themselves and their peers, which resulted in some of the most iconic designs that have been tested by multiple different athletes of all kinds of different disciplines. (And no I’m not a “jock” I was actually first chair clarinet all thru high school  ) There’s a reason why the superstar, Stan Smith, samba, dunk, blazer, Chuck Taylor, ect have been in production for generations. They are tried and true. Why wouldn’t you want to wear a shoe that has stood the test of time? Ill tell you why, Mob mentality. If you’re not one of us you’re against us mentality which, imo, is how supremacy is born. This way of thinking is directly related to how skaters interact with each other on a micro level as well. It bleeds into our social interaction with other skaters who may differ in the way they look or dress. In the end it’s purposeful ignorance, which was funny to watch at first but now it’s just plain sad and it honestly pins us against each other more than you would think. At the end of the day skate in what you think is the best shoe for your skateboarding cause as Waka Flaka once said
“fuck this industry, bitch I’m in these streets”

[close]

When did anyone say this? That skating should stay under the control of skaters is not a sentimental argument. It's a practical one.

[close]

How so? What is so practical about it?

[close]

Why the fuck would skaters want outsiders influencing and controlling skateboarding? Are cool sneakers really worth relinquishing any or all of that power? I don't know about you but that sounds like a bad idea.

[close]

First off it is us who influences them. Secondly the way our economic system is set up it will inevitably become the haves and have nots. Either way you are just a customer to either side. Nothing more nothing less. I rather have control of my own decisions then be pigeon holed into what I can and cannot buy. Skaters have been skating in whatever the fuck they wanted for as long as it’s been around. It is the skate industry that tricked you into thinking u need skate specific footwear that is lower quality than what has been around for decades. It’s actually pretty smart if you’re just trying to make a buck. But again you should skate in whatever works for you. Let them fight over our money   

[close]

That sounds more naive what you were pointing out. Eventually, once they've established enough of a foothold, they will not only influence skateboarding but control it. And corporate influence is never good for a subculture. It always subsumes and destroys all subcultures and spits out things like Blink-182 and Creed. In response to your later post, I don't understand how trying to buy skater owned is the same as a Ponzi scheme. This is not investment advice. It's an opinion about consumerism and how it affects skateboarding.

[close]

What you’re scared of has already happened! Skateboardings purest form is just that, skateboarding nothing more. Imo the subculture has been commodified way before we even started skating(I hate to assume your age but I’m pretty sure you’re not a 50 year old person) It’s not underground anymore. It’s an Olympic sport, corporately backed by this energy drink and that whatever the heck makes money. And I can name like 4 current pros that can be compared to the likes of Blink-182 and Creed lol
The insta cash app comment was more of a joke but there are slight comparisons. Like believing that the money you spend on skater owner shoes is going to come back to you in some other maybe less tangible but just as valued way is kinda funny

[close]

It would be cool if you weren't scared to post under your usual username. Probably a bad look though white knighting for corporations. Also rich that you're accusing others of straw manning when every single one of your points is exactly that, or emotion-filled rhetoric and complete distortions.

[close]

I stayed on topic this whole time and I’m not emotional at all. If I’m stirring emotion in you as your read my post then that means my words are moving you and hopefully I got you to open your mind a little bit. Also this is my only account so idk what you’re talking about lol All I’m saying is to just purchase something because it’s skater owned might not be in your best interest as an individual. But by all means spend your money on you see fit. If my explanation of why a company would close an account doesn’t make sense to you then that’s ok too. But I do know what I’m taking about and if you like to bring up valid points that aren’t stabs at my character then I’m more than happy to have a discussion with you

[close]

You were saying earlier that people saying buy skater owned felt that core companies cared about them. 100% straw man. You're also bringing up the old ethics issues with sweat shops when no one said core companies are innocent of that either. Another straw man. You also go back and forth between attacking and trying to sound reasonable and wounded by personal attacks, which is very manipulative. Skaters should support skater owned to keep skating under the control of skaters. Anything else you tack on to that, such as "Ponzi schemes" and individualism, are distractions and distortions.

Im 100% sure you don’t truly understand what you’re talking about. I never even typed the word “sweatshop” lol I’m glad my clear and concise thoughts have got you to come at the way I present them and not the actual topic itself. Continue to support whoever you seem fit to support. I just think to sacrifice your future self over feeling apart of something that truly can care less about you as a person just doesn’t make sense to me. Again all I’ve been saying is that You should skate what you think is the best for you as an individual. Everything else has just been me poking holes and having fun with with the faulty logic present to me

[90sDamiano]

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The skate industry is a fucking joke and if you think that “skater owner” means they care about you then you’re delusional. Lakai doesn’t give a fuck that I literally couldn’t even walk in that Manchester reissue cause there is zero heel support. They’re laughing to the bank while y’all police each other into what you should be wearing. As for corporate brands, they are trying to make the best possible product they can to rule a market. They are in competition with themselves and their peers, which resulted in some of the most iconic designs that have been tested by multiple different athletes of all kinds of different disciplines. (And no I’m not a “jock” I was actually first chair clarinet all thru high school  ) There’s a reason why the superstar, Stan Smith, samba, dunk, blazer, Chuck Taylor, ect have been in production for generations. They are tried and true. Why wouldn’t you want to wear a shoe that has stood the test of time? Ill tell you why, Mob mentality. If you’re not one of us you’re against us mentality which, imo, is how supremacy is born. This way of thinking is directly related to how skaters interact with each other on a micro level as well. It bleeds into our social interaction with other skaters who may differ in the way they look or dress. In the end it’s purposeful ignorance, which was funny to watch at first but now it’s just plain sad and it honestly pins us against each other more than you would think. At the end of the day skate in what you think is the best shoe for your skateboarding cause as Waka Flaka once said
“fuck this industry, bitch I’m in these streets”

[close]

When did anyone say this? That skating should stay under the control of skaters is not a sentimental argument. It's a practical one.

[close]

How so? What is so practical about it?

[close]

Why the fuck would skaters want outsiders influencing and controlling skateboarding? Are cool sneakers really worth relinquishing any or all of that power? I don't know about you but that sounds like a bad idea.

[close]

First off it is us who influences them. Secondly the way our economic system is set up it will inevitably become the haves and have nots. Either way you are just a customer to either side. Nothing more nothing less. I rather have control of my own decisions then be pigeon holed into what I can and cannot buy. Skaters have been skating in whatever the fuck they wanted for as long as it’s been around. It is the skate industry that tricked you into thinking u need skate specific footwear that is lower quality than what has been around for decades. It’s actually pretty smart if you’re just trying to make a buck. But again you should skate in whatever works for you. Let them fight over our money   

[close]

That sounds more naive what you were pointing out. Eventually, once they've established enough of a foothold, they will not only influence skateboarding but control it. And corporate influence is never good for a subculture. It always subsumes and destroys all subcultures and spits out things like Blink-182 and Creed. In response to your later post, I don't understand how trying to buy skater owned is the same as a Ponzi scheme. This is not investment advice. It's an opinion about consumerism and how it affects skateboarding.

[close]

What you’re scared of has already happened! Skateboardings purest form is just that, skateboarding nothing more. Imo the subculture has been commodified way before we even started skating(I hate to assume your age but I’m pretty sure you’re not a 50 year old person) It’s not underground anymore. It’s an Olympic sport, corporately backed by this energy drink and that whatever the heck makes money. And I can name like 4 current pros that can be compared to the likes of Blink-182 and Creed lol
The insta cash app comment was more of a joke but there are slight comparisons. Like believing that the money you spend on skater owner shoes is going to come back to you in some other maybe less tangible but just as valued way is kinda funny

[close]

It would be cool if you weren't scared to post under your usual username. Probably a bad look though white knighting for corporations. Also rich that you're accusing others of straw manning when every single one of your points is exactly that, or emotion-filled rhetoric and complete distortions.

[close]

I stayed on topic this whole time and I’m not emotional at all. If I’m stirring emotion in you as your read my post then that means my words are moving you and hopefully I got you to open your mind a little bit. Also this is my only account so idk what you’re talking about lol All I’m saying is to just purchase something because it’s skater owned might not be in your best interest as an individual. But by all means spend your money on you see fit. If my explanation of why a company would close an account doesn’t make sense to you then that’s ok too. But I do know what I’m taking about and if you like to bring up valid points that aren’t stabs at my character then I’m more than happy to have a discussion with you

[close]

You were saying earlier that people saying buy skater owned felt that core companies cared about them. 100% straw man. You're also bringing up the old ethics issues with sweat shops when no one said core companies are innocent of that either. Another straw man. You also go back and forth between attacking and trying to sound reasonable and wounded by personal attacks, which is very manipulative. Skaters should support skater owned to keep skating under the control of skaters. Anything else you tack on to that, such as "Ponzi schemes" and individualism, are distractions and distortions.

Are you not for individualism?

[90sDamiano]

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The skate industry is a fucking joke and if you think that “skater owner” means they care about you then you’re delusional. Lakai doesn’t give a fuck that I literally couldn’t even walk in that Manchester reissue cause there is zero heel support. They’re laughing to the bank while y’all police each other into what you should be wearing. As for corporate brands, they are trying to make the best possible product they can to rule a market. They are in competition with themselves and their peers, which resulted in some of the most iconic designs that have been tested by multiple different athletes of all kinds of different disciplines. (And no I’m not a “jock” I was actually first chair clarinet all thru high school  ) There’s a reason why the superstar, Stan Smith, samba, dunk, blazer, Chuck Taylor, ect have been in production for generations. They are tried and true. Why wouldn’t you want to wear a shoe that has stood the test of time? Ill tell you why, Mob mentality. If you’re not one of us you’re against us mentality which, imo, is how supremacy is born. This way of thinking is directly related to how skaters interact with each other on a micro level as well. It bleeds into our social interaction with other skaters who may differ in the way they look or dress. In the end it’s purposeful ignorance, which was funny to watch at first but now it’s just plain sad and it honestly pins us against each other more than you would think. At the end of the day skate in what you think is the best shoe for your skateboarding cause as Waka Flaka once said
“fuck this industry, bitch I’m in these streets”

[close]

When did anyone say this? That skating should stay under the control of skaters is not a sentimental argument. It's a practical one.

[close]

How so? What is so practical about it?

[close]

Why the fuck would skaters want outsiders influencing and controlling skateboarding? Are cool sneakers really worth relinquishing any or all of that power? I don't know about you but that sounds like a bad idea.

[close]

First off it is us who influences them. Secondly the way our economic system is set up it will inevitably become the haves and have nots. Either way you are just a customer to either side. Nothing more nothing less. I rather have control of my own decisions then be pigeon holed into what I can and cannot buy. Skaters have been skating in whatever the fuck they wanted for as long as it’s been around. It is the skate industry that tricked you into thinking u need skate specific footwear that is lower quality than what has been around for decades. It’s actually pretty smart if you’re just trying to make a buck. But again you should skate in whatever works for you. Let them fight over our money   

[close]

That sounds more naive what you were pointing out. Eventually, once they've established enough of a foothold, they will not only influence skateboarding but control it. And corporate influence is never good for a subculture. It always subsumes and destroys all subcultures and spits out things like Blink-182 and Creed. In response to your later post, I don't understand how trying to buy skater owned is the same as a Ponzi scheme. This is not investment advice. It's an opinion about consumerism and how it affects skateboarding.

[close]

What you’re scared of has already happened! Skateboardings purest form is just that, skateboarding nothing more. Imo the subculture has been commodified way before we even started skating(I hate to assume your age but I’m pretty sure you’re not a 50 year old person) It’s not underground anymore. It’s an Olympic sport, corporately backed by this energy drink and that whatever the heck makes money. And I can name like 4 current pros that can be compared to the likes of Blink-182 and Creed lol
The insta cash app comment was more of a joke but there are slight comparisons. Like believing that the money you spend on skater owner shoes is going to come back to you in some other maybe less tangible but just as valued way is kinda funny

[close]

It would be cool if you weren't scared to post under your usual username. Probably a bad look though white knighting for corporations. Also rich that you're accusing others of straw manning when every single one of your points is exactly that, or emotion-filled rhetoric and complete distortions.

[close]

I stayed on topic this whole time and I’m not emotional at all. If I’m stirring emotion in you as your read my post then that means my words are moving you and hopefully I got you to open your mind a little bit. Also this is my only account so idk what you’re talking about lol All I’m saying is to just purchase something because it’s skater owned might not be in your best interest as an individual. But by all means spend your money on you see fit. If my explanation of why a company would close an account doesn’t make sense to you then that’s ok too. But I do know what I’m taking about and if you like to bring up valid points that aren’t stabs at my character then I’m more than happy to have a discussion with you

[close]

You were saying earlier that people saying buy skater owned felt that core companies cared about them. 100% straw man. You're also bringing up the old ethics issues with sweat shops when no one said core companies are innocent of that either. Another straw man. You also go back and forth between attacking and trying to sound reasonable and wounded by personal attacks, which is very manipulative. Skaters should support skater owned to keep skating under the control of skaters. Anything else you tack on to that, such as "Ponzi schemes" and individualism, are distractions and distortions.

Actually Chuck don’t answer that question, I’d hate to lead you in another discussion that you don’t understand. Let’s just chalk it up to a Deeper Understanding

[ChuckRamone]

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The skate industry is a fucking joke and if you think that “skater owner” means they care about you then you’re delusional. Lakai doesn’t give a fuck that I literally couldn’t even walk in that Manchester reissue cause there is zero heel support. They’re laughing to the bank while y’all police each other into what you should be wearing. As for corporate brands, they are trying to make the best possible product they can to rule a market. They are in competition with themselves and their peers, which resulted in some of the most iconic designs that have been tested by multiple different athletes of all kinds of different disciplines. (And no I’m not a “jock” I was actually first chair clarinet all thru high school  ) There’s a reason why the superstar, Stan Smith, samba, dunk, blazer, Chuck Taylor, ect have been in production for generations. They are tried and true. Why wouldn’t you want to wear a shoe that has stood the test of time? Ill tell you why, Mob mentality. If you’re not one of us you’re against us mentality which, imo, is how supremacy is born. This way of thinking is directly related to how skaters interact with each other on a micro level as well. It bleeds into our social interaction with other skaters who may differ in the way they look or dress. In the end it’s purposeful ignorance, which was funny to watch at first but now it’s just plain sad and it honestly pins us against each other more than you would think. At the end of the day skate in what you think is the best shoe for your skateboarding cause as Waka Flaka once said
“fuck this industry, bitch I’m in these streets”

[close]

When did anyone say this? That skating should stay under the control of skaters is not a sentimental argument. It's a practical one.

[close]

How so? What is so practical about it?

[close]

Why the fuck would skaters want outsiders influencing and controlling skateboarding? Are cool sneakers really worth relinquishing any or all of that power? I don't know about you but that sounds like a bad idea.

[close]

First off it is us who influences them. Secondly the way our economic system is set up it will inevitably become the haves and have nots. Either way you are just a customer to either side. Nothing more nothing less. I rather have control of my own decisions then be pigeon holed into what I can and cannot buy. Skaters have been skating in whatever the fuck they wanted for as long as it’s been around. It is the skate industry that tricked you into thinking u need skate specific footwear that is lower quality than what has been around for decades. It’s actually pretty smart if you’re just trying to make a buck. But again you should skate in whatever works for you. Let them fight over our money   

[close]

That sounds more naive what you were pointing out. Eventually, once they've established enough of a foothold, they will not only influence skateboarding but control it. And corporate influence is never good for a subculture. It always subsumes and destroys all subcultures and spits out things like Blink-182 and Creed. In response to your later post, I don't understand how trying to buy skater owned is the same as a Ponzi scheme. This is not investment advice. It's an opinion about consumerism and how it affects skateboarding.

[close]

What you’re scared of has already happened! Skateboardings purest form is just that, skateboarding nothing more. Imo the subculture has been commodified way before we even started skating(I hate to assume your age but I’m pretty sure you’re not a 50 year old person) It’s not underground anymore. It’s an Olympic sport, corporately backed by this energy drink and that whatever the heck makes money. And I can name like 4 current pros that can be compared to the likes of Blink-182 and Creed lol
The insta cash app comment was more of a joke but there are slight comparisons. Like believing that the money you spend on skater owner shoes is going to come back to you in some other maybe less tangible but just as valued way is kinda funny

[close]

It would be cool if you weren't scared to post under your usual username. Probably a bad look though white knighting for corporations. Also rich that you're accusing others of straw manning when every single one of your points is exactly that, or emotion-filled rhetoric and complete distortions.

[close]

I stayed on topic this whole time and I’m not emotional at all. If I’m stirring emotion in you as your read my post then that means my words are moving you and hopefully I got you to open your mind a little bit. Also this is my only account so idk what you’re talking about lol All I’m saying is to just purchase something because it’s skater owned might not be in your best interest as an individual. But by all means spend your money on you see fit. If my explanation of why a company would close an account doesn’t make sense to you then that’s ok too. But I do know what I’m taking about and if you like to bring up valid points that aren’t stabs at my character then I’m more than happy to have a discussion with you

[close]

You were saying earlier that people saying buy skater owned felt that core companies cared about them. 100% straw man. You're also bringing up the old ethics issues with sweat shops when no one said core companies are innocent of that either. Another straw man. You also go back and forth between attacking and trying to sound reasonable and wounded by personal attacks, which is very manipulative. Skaters should support skater owned to keep skating under the control of skaters. Anything else you tack on to that, such as "Ponzi schemes" and individualism, are distractions and distortions.

[close]

Im 100% sure you don’t truly understand what you’re talking about. I never even typed the word “sweatshop” lol I’m glad my clear and concise thoughts have got you to come at the way I present them and not the actual topic itself. Continue to support whoever you seem fit to support. I just think to sacrifice your future self over feeling apart of something that truly can care less about you as a person just doesn’t make sense to me. Again all I’ve been saying is that You should skate what you think is the best for you as an individual. Everything else has just been me poking holes and having fun with with the faulty logic present to me

I don't think you've accomplished that. You have muddied the waters though with lots of weird ancillary points. And you didn't use the exact word sweatshop but you talked about ethical sourcing - if you weren't implying sweatshops then my mistake. Also, I said bringing up individualism is a distraction, not that I am opposed to it.

If you think you're exercising individualism through your buying habits, you've got way too much faith in capitalism. I'm sure before Amazon killed thousands of local bookshops, people felt they were making the right individual choice by buying Amazon's cheaper, more convenient books. Now people can shop for books at the very few small bookstores left or Amazon. That's what huge corporations do. They swallow up all their competition until you're left with fewer and fewer choices until you can only express your individualism at Amazon, Starbucks, or Wal-Mart. If you want to contribute to the big corporate shoe companies doing that to skateboarding, while taking the power out of skaters' hands, go ahead. That's your individual choice. But I think it's a bad choice.

[silhouette]

Maybe because I just can grasp what you’re trying to say friend. It’s ok, but you did try to come at my character and now you’re trying to make it seem like you’re just trying to shoot the shit. Every response you youve made has been mostly incoherent and doesn’t really bring much to the conversation at hand. But I do respect your opinion hence why I’ve read every single word you’ve written. Ive never said that skaters shouldn’t start businesses or that they should blindly follow “catchphrases”. I’ve actually been saying the exact opposite of that so again I’m not sure what you’re trying to say. At the end of the day you, the individual is what matters the most. If there is anything anyone can take away from what I written in this god forsaken thread is that the individual and their sovereignty is the most important thing in, dare I say, THE WORLD! Now go out there and be you! 

Again asking open questions on a forum isn't coming at someone's character, and again you're distorting my words like I'm talking specifically about you and questioning your personal logic when I honestly don't care and am trying to speak in general. Bit on the catchphrases even had a disclaimer originally that I ended up deleting as I thought you wouldn't need it. I'm not even trying to argue with you personally, it's just a calm discussion (albeit lengthy), not a boxing ring.

Although I will say I love it when you say my responses have been incoherent when I've been stating cold hard facts you just don't like hearing or just hadn't heard of before regarding some specific practices from the big names and you've been carefully dancing around every one of them to instead bring up the big great concept of individuality every time like that's a magic spell. To be honest in general I really don't like it when such big great concepts become a marketing tool, and illusory freedom and happiness is exactly what most merchants in the world rely on, even when what they're pushing is something purely material and occasionally stupid like shoes. In the end I still don't know what you think about that impact on the culture I was just describing (if you even care) and about all the more sincere, smaller personal enterprises being killed and people losing jobs.

Now there's one thing I have to specify (I have on here before but you most likely never saw it), it's that living in the past praising outdated social and industrial models generally sucks (which is why I make it a point not to think in boxes and instead try and remain critical of singular facts no matter where they originate from), and in reality those corporations also currently provide jobs to countless skateboarders who genuinely believe in the strength of what it is they're doing, and really more power to those guys sweating it hard for what they think is skateboarding when it's really just for their employer (a dichotomy many feel on the daily, trust me), it's a filter on the people's voices to begin with and then a constant hassle to have to align with the direction of a select few entities in order to even have a chance of making any money from skating that way. It's like having a passion for pizza and somehow aspiring to work at Domino's only to be told to wear a uniform and cut your hair.

Also, the doctor you're referring to I actually had to visit several times upon developing bursitis in both feet from skating a bunch of Adidas shoes in a row that were mere cardboard years ago, and tendinitis again in both feet from skating Sk8-Hi's (what a scam of a product), so I actually get you on how most so-called skate shoes are in fact atrocious for the body, I just never got that from State and that has nothing to do with whether they're skater-owned. Different experiences are real.

Honestly it pains me a little to see you take every observation and turn of this conversation with me as a personal challenge. I actually appreciate you taking time out of your day to discuss all kinds of things skating on here, I always wish this place had more actual skate talk and less gossip. But coming on a public forum, by definition you have to be prepared for people to challenge your vision the same way you seem excited challenge theirs, it's the nature of the place (and a precious opportunity) to expose you to different opinions and in the end, always a good reminder that everyone shits with their pants down regardless of their experience in the field and that no one owns the truth. Joining a message board expecting a one-way act is delusional.

[90sDamiano]

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The skate industry is a fucking joke and if you think that “skater owner” means they care about you then you’re delusional. Lakai doesn’t give a fuck that I literally couldn’t even walk in that Manchester reissue cause there is zero heel support. They’re laughing to the bank while y’all police each other into what you should be wearing. As for corporate brands, they are trying to make the best possible product they can to rule a market. They are in competition with themselves and their peers, which resulted in some of the most iconic designs that have been tested by multiple different athletes of all kinds of different disciplines. (And no I’m not a “jock” I was actually first chair clarinet all thru high school  ) There’s a reason why the superstar, Stan Smith, samba, dunk, blazer, Chuck Taylor, ect have been in production for generations. They are tried and true. Why wouldn’t you want to wear a shoe that has stood the test of time? Ill tell you why, Mob mentality. If you’re not one of us you’re against us mentality which, imo, is how supremacy is born. This way of thinking is directly related to how skaters interact with each other on a micro level as well. It bleeds into our social interaction with other skaters who may differ in the way they look or dress. In the end it’s purposeful ignorance, which was funny to watch at first but now it’s just plain sad and it honestly pins us against each other more than you would think. At the end of the day skate in what you think is the best shoe for your skateboarding cause as Waka Flaka once said
“fuck this industry, bitch I’m in these streets”

[close]

When did anyone say this? That skating should stay under the control of skaters is not a sentimental argument. It's a practical one.

[close]

How so? What is so practical about it?

[close]

Why the fuck would skaters want outsiders influencing and controlling skateboarding? Are cool sneakers really worth relinquishing any or all of that power? I don't know about you but that sounds like a bad idea.

[close]

First off it is us who influences them. Secondly the way our economic system is set up it will inevitably become the haves and have nots. Either way you are just a customer to either side. Nothing more nothing less. I rather have control of my own decisions then be pigeon holed into what I can and cannot buy. Skaters have been skating in whatever the fuck they wanted for as long as it’s been around. It is the skate industry that tricked you into thinking u need skate specific footwear that is lower quality than what has been around for decades. It’s actually pretty smart if you’re just trying to make a buck. But again you should skate in whatever works for you. Let them fight over our money   

[close]

That sounds more naive what you were pointing out. Eventually, once they've established enough of a foothold, they will not only influence skateboarding but control it. And corporate influence is never good for a subculture. It always subsumes and destroys all subcultures and spits out things like Blink-182 and Creed. In response to your later post, I don't understand how trying to buy skater owned is the same as a Ponzi scheme. This is not investment advice. It's an opinion about consumerism and how it affects skateboarding.

[close]

What you’re scared of has already happened! Skateboardings purest form is just that, skateboarding nothing more. Imo the subculture has been commodified way before we even started skating(I hate to assume your age but I’m pretty sure you’re not a 50 year old person) It’s not underground anymore. It’s an Olympic sport, corporately backed by this energy drink and that whatever the heck makes money. And I can name like 4 current pros that can be compared to the likes of Blink-182 and Creed lol
The insta cash app comment was more of a joke but there are slight comparisons. Like believing that the money you spend on skater owner shoes is going to come back to you in some other maybe less tangible but just as valued way is kinda funny

[close]

It would be cool if you weren't scared to post under your usual username. Probably a bad look though white knighting for corporations. Also rich that you're accusing others of straw manning when every single one of your points is exactly that, or emotion-filled rhetoric and complete distortions.

[close]

I stayed on topic this whole time and I’m not emotional at all. If I’m stirring emotion in you as your read my post then that means my words are moving you and hopefully I got you to open your mind a little bit. Also this is my only account so idk what you’re talking about lol All I’m saying is to just purchase something because it’s skater owned might not be in your best interest as an individual. But by all means spend your money on you see fit. If my explanation of why a company would close an account doesn’t make sense to you then that’s ok too. But I do know what I’m taking about and if you like to bring up valid points that aren’t stabs at my character then I’m more than happy to have a discussion with you

[close]

You were saying earlier that people saying buy skater owned felt that core companies cared about them. 100% straw man. You're also bringing up the old ethics issues with sweat shops when no one said core companies are innocent of that either. Another straw man. You also go back and forth between attacking and trying to sound reasonable and wounded by personal attacks, which is very manipulative. Skaters should support skater owned to keep skating under the control of skaters. Anything else you tack on to that, such as "Ponzi schemes" and individualism, are distractions and distortions.

[close]

Im 100% sure you don’t truly understand what you’re talking about. I never even typed the word “sweatshop” lol I’m glad my clear and concise thoughts have got you to come at the way I present them and not the actual topic itself. Continue to support whoever you seem fit to support. I just think to sacrifice your future self over feeling apart of something that truly can care less about you as a person just doesn’t make sense to me. Again all I’ve been saying is that You should skate what you think is the best for you as an individual. Everything else has just been me poking holes and having fun with with the faulty logic present to me

[close]

I don't think you've accomplished that. You have muddied the waters though with lots of weird ancillary points. And you didn't use the exact word sweatshop but you talked about ethical sourcing - if you weren't implying sweatshops then my mistake. Also, I said bringing up individualism is a distraction, not that I am opposed to it.

If you think you're exercising individualism through your buying habits, you've got way too much faith in capitalism. I'm sure before Amazon killed thousands of local bookshops, people felt they were making the right individual choice by buying Amazon's cheaper, more convenient books. Now people can shop for books at the very few small bookstores left or Amazon. That's what huge corporations do. They swallow up all their competition until you're left with fewer and fewer choices until you can only express your individualism at Amazon, Starbucks, or Wal-Mart. If you want to contribute to the big corporate shoe companies doing that to skateboarding, while taking the power out of skaters' hands, go ahead. That's your individual choice. But I think it's a bad choice.

The whole point of me saying that the individual is so important is because unfortunately we gain and suffer through capitalism. I completely understand what corporations do. And anyone to thinks that they have power in their dollar needs some faith in the economic system so idk why you would even comment on me having faith in capitalism because you’re whole argue is based on that logic. I even said why would I pay 80$ for some adidas Superstar ADVs when I can find superstars on Poshmark for 15$? Should I buy it because it says skateboarding on it? It’s about using what little “power” we have for our own benefit.  Because at the end of the day these corporations, which honestly aren’t that much different than whoever owns your favorite “skater owned” companies don’t care about you. They just want your money. It’s one of the many critics of capitalism actually, it’s not like I’m pulling this shit outta my ass lol

[silhouette]

The whole point of me saying that individual is so important is because unfortunately we gain and suffer through capitalism. I completely understand what corporations do. And anyone to thinks that they have power in their dollar needs some faith in the economic system so idk why you would even comment on me having faith in capitalism because you’re whole argue is based on that logic. I even said why would I pay 80$ for some adidas Superstar ADVs when I can find superstars on Poshmark for 15$? Should I buy it because it says skateboarding on it? It’s about using what little “power” we have for our own benefit.  Because at the end of the day these corporations, which honestly aren’t that much different than whoever owns your favorite “skater owned” companies don’t care about you. They just want your money. It’s one of the many critics of capitalism actually, it’s not like I’m pulling this shit outta my ass lol

Oh and one more thing, I'm not trying to imply all your arguments suck and you're wrong about everything, for instance this post has a lot of truth in it, so please don't stigmatize my comments too much. In this particular instance, where exactly I stop following you is when you say skater-owned companies don't care and just want your money, I keep finding that's quite insulting to the small operations throughout the globe that do contribute more to their local scene and community than Nike or Adidas ever will, whatever it is they make. Skater-owned is still a reality in 2020, not just talking shoes too, individuals are running cool shit all over the planet, but the most visible names are abusing that term to justify their fossilizing to the point where it indeed starts sounding like a gimmick, and you have to actually look past the hype and consider what exactly it is each singular entity is doing, but I think that's really just basic common sense.

Because someone sets up a brand really doesn't mean they stopped caring about skateboarding the act and culture altogether and are just trying to get the big money now. The greedy do exist (sometimes instantly, sometimes the money stops being a mere means after a while) but they might as well not to me, I'd rather always only consider the ones positively doing cool shit which is easier than ever with Internet access.

Unrelated side note but the argument of how skaters are now finally getting paid too, I don't really get. Lots of skate shoe companies (and skate companies in general) in the 90's/early 00's back when the economy was still circular were actually doing really well in their niche market till Nike came along but only the shady ones who fucked skating over keep getting brought up.

[90sDamiano]

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Maybe because I just can grasp what you’re trying to say friend. It’s ok, but you did try to come at my character and now you’re trying to make it seem like you’re just trying to shoot the shit. Every response you youve made has been mostly incoherent and doesn’t really bring much to the conversation at hand. But I do respect your opinion hence why I’ve read every single word you’ve written. Ive never said that skaters shouldn’t start businesses or that they should blindly follow “catchphrases”. I’ve actually been saying the exact opposite of that so again I’m not sure what you’re trying to say. At the end of the day you, the individual is what matters the most. If there is anything anyone can take away from what I written in this god forsaken thread is that the individual and their sovereignty is the most important thing in, dare I say, THE WORLD! Now go out there and be you! 

[close]

Again asking open questions on a forum isn't coming at someone's character, and again you're distorting my words like I'm talking specifically about you and questioning your personal logic when I honestly don't care and am trying to speak in general. Bit on the catchphrases even had a disclaimer originally that I ended up deleting as I thought you wouldn't need it. I'm not even trying to argue with you personally, it's just a calm discussion (albeit lengthy), not a boxing ring.

Although I will say I love it when you say my responses have been incoherent when I've been stating cold hard facts you just don't like hearing or just hadn't heard of before regarding some specific practices from the big names and you've been carefully dancing around every one of them to instead bring up the big great concept of individuality every time like that's a magic spell. To be honest in general I really don't like it when such big great concepts become a marketing tool, and illusory freedom and happiness is exactly what most merchants in the world rely on, even when what they're pushing is something purely material and occasionally stupid like shoes. In the end I still don't know what you think about that impact on the culture I was just describing (if you even care) and about all the more sincere, smaller personal enterprises being killed and people losing jobs.

Now there's one thing I have to specify (I have on here before but you most likely never saw it), it's that living in the past praising outdated social and industrial models generally sucks (which is why I make it a point not to think in boxes and instead try and remain critical of singular facts no matter where they originate from), and in reality those corporations also currently provide jobs to countless skateboarders who genuinely believe in the strength of what it is they're doing, and really more power to those guys sweating it hard for what they think is skateboarding when it's really just for their employer (a dichotomy many feel on the daily, trust me), it's a filter on the people's voices to begin with and then a constant hassle to have to align with the direction of a select few entities in order to even have a chance of making any money from skating that way. It's like having a passion for pizza and somehow aspiring to work at Domino's only to be told to wear a uniform and cut your hair.

Also, the doctor you're referring to I actually had to visit several times upon developing bursitis in both feet from skating a bunch of Adidas shoes in a row that were mere cardboard years ago, and tendinitis again in both feet from skating Sk8-Hi's (what a scam of a product), so I actually get you on how most so-called skate shoes are in fact atrocious for the body, I just never got that from State and that has nothing to do with whether they're skater-owned. Different experiences are real.

Honestly it pains me a little to see you take every observation and turn of this conversation with me as a personal challenge. I actually appreciate you taking time out of your day to discuss all kinds of things skating on here, I always wish this place had more actual skate talk and less gossip. But coming on a public forum, by definition you have to be prepared for people to challenge your vision the same way you seem excited challenge theirs, it's the nature of the place (and a precious opportunity) to expose you to different opinions and in the end, always a good reminder that everyone shits with their pants down regardless of their experience in the field and that no one owns the truth. Joining a message board expecting a one-way act is delusional.

You’re points are obvious and more about how I present my ideas and how my personality comes across on the screen. It’s has little to do with the thoughts I’ve took the time to entertain you with. Because you are right, this forum has been a joke lately. I love skateboarding to my core. I don’t wanna get too deep into that kind of stuff because I hate when people try to use those emotions as a tool. But at the end of the day I’m going to skate no matter who’s getting paid, No matter who owns who, or blah blah blah. I will still be skating. Use whatever tools you see fit to continue skating because that is what matters most. At least me it is, and if you don’t think that makes any sense then that’s ok. I’m completely open to new ideas but when what you’re saying strengthens and even sometimes align with what has already been said I have to wonder what are you really taking about then? Because you haven’t added anything that isn’t already implied. Trust me when I say I truly speak from experience. There are way more skaters who don’t work for skate company’s than do and vice versa. And you know what, it doesn’t matter because at the end of the day when it’s time to let someone go it doesn’t matter if you skate. because the system we live is not set up for us to succeed. You have to look out and be aware of what benefits you.Because if you haven’t noticed we don’t have control over much. And if what benefits you is riding X brand then do so without having to worry about what people think of it. I think you are taking it personally if anything my friend because again idk who I’m even typing to. And not just cause of obvious reason but because I am answering this questions without even reading who is sending them. I’m just responding so idk if you have read every single post I’ve made in this thread but I assure you that I have read and responded to everyone with no offense taken by whoever is responding to me. I mentioned the “ attack on my character” because it’s a common thing people do when presented with logic they don’t understand. To have thought that when I said these skater owned companies just want our money meant that some kid making a zine shouldn’t be making money off his passion was either willfully ignorant or just grabbing at low hanging fruit. I do not take any other this personally, what I’m saying is if you don’t agree with me at least say something with substance.

[90sDamiano]

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The whole point of me saying that individual is so important is because unfortunately we gain and suffer through capitalism. I completely understand what corporations do. And anyone to thinks that they have power in their dollar needs some faith in the economic system so idk why you would even comment on me having faith in capitalism because you’re whole argue is based on that logic. I even said why would I pay 80$ for some adidas Superstar ADVs when I can find superstars on Poshmark for 15$? Should I buy it because it says skateboarding on it? It’s about using what little “power” we have for our own benefit.  Because at the end of the day these corporations, which honestly aren’t that much different than whoever owns your favorite “skater owned” companies don’t care about you. They just want your money. It’s one of the many critics of capitalism actually, it’s not like I’m pulling this shit outta my ass lol

[close]

Oh and one more thing, I'm not trying to imply all your arguments suck and you're wrong about everything, for instance this post has a lot of truth in it, so please don't stigmatize my comments too much. In this particular instance, where exactly I stop following you is when you say skater-owned companies don't care and just want your money, I keep finding that's quite insulting to the small operations throughout the globe that do contribute more to their local scene and community than Nike or Adidas ever will, whatever it is they make. Skater-owned is still a reality in 2020, not just talking shoes too, individuals are running cool shit all over the planet, but the most visible names are abusing that term to justify their fossilizing to the point where it indeed starts sounding like a gimmick, and you have to actually look past the hype and consider what exactly it is each singular entity is doing, but I think that's really just basic common sense.

Because someone sets up a brand really doesn't mean they stopped caring about skateboarding the act and culture altogether and are just trying to get the big money now. The greedy do exist (sometimes instantly, sometimes the money stops being a mere means after a while) but they might as well not to me, I'd rather always only consider the ones positively doing cool shit which is easier than ever with Internet access.

Unrelated side note but the argument of how skaters are now finally getting paid too, I don't really get. Lots of skate shoe companies (and skate companies in general) in the 90's/early 00's back when the economy was still circular were actually doing really well in their niche market till Nike came along but only the shady ones who fucked skating over keep getting brought up.

You’re right but that’s just it, I’m talking shoes. And when it comes to shoes as of right now I will not benefit from spending my money on most “skater owned” footwear brands. To me personally it just doesn’t make sense, most due to the benefit isn’t mutual. Not like it’s mutual anywhere else but to be under the guise of “I am you and you are me and we’re in this together” is a good marketing scheme at best. Call me dark but seems to be the case in my experience. 

[90sDamiano]

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The whole point of me saying that individual is so important is because unfortunately we gain and suffer through capitalism. I completely understand what corporations do. And anyone to thinks that they have power in their dollar needs some faith in the economic system so idk why you would even comment on me having faith in capitalism because you’re whole argue is based on that logic. I even said why would I pay 80$ for some adidas Superstar ADVs when I can find superstars on Poshmark for 15$? Should I buy it because it says skateboarding on it? It’s about using what little “power” we have for our own benefit.  Because at the end of the day these corporations, which honestly aren’t that much different than whoever owns your favorite “skater owned” companies don’t care about you. They just want your money. It’s one of the many critics of capitalism actually, it’s not like I’m pulling this shit outta my ass lol

[close]

Oh and one more thing, I'm not trying to imply all your arguments suck and you're wrong about everything, for instance this post has a lot of truth in it, so please don't stigmatize my comments too much. In this particular instance, where exactly I stop following you is when you say skater-owned companies don't care and just want your money, I keep finding that's quite insulting to the small operations throughout the globe that do contribute more to their local scene and community than Nike or Adidas ever will, whatever it is they make. Skater-owned is still a reality in 2020, not just talking shoes too, individuals are running cool shit all over the planet, but the most visible names are abusing that term to justify their fossilizing to the point where it indeed starts sounding like a gimmick, and you have to actually look past the hype and consider what exactly it is each singular entity is doing, but I think that's really just basic common sense.

Because someone sets up a brand really doesn't mean they stopped caring about skateboarding the act and culture altogether and are just trying to get the big money now. The greedy do exist (sometimes instantly, sometimes the money stops being a mere means after a while) but they might as well not to me, I'd rather always only consider the ones positively doing cool shit which is easier than ever with Internet access.

Unrelated side note but the argument of how skaters are now finally getting paid too, I don't really get. Lots of skate shoe companies (and skate companies in general) in the 90's/early 00's back when the economy was still circular were actually doing really well in their niche market till Nike came along but only the shady ones who fucked skating over keep getting brought up.

Is that the company’s fault or is it a one sided economic system that allows for these things to take place. Also I find it interesting that Ellington can get shoes made in Italy but a bunch of dudes running a skate shoe brand willingly find the most budget factory they can just to increase profit margins. That’s kinda what I’m getting at is if you’re gunna do something for the community then there is a proper way to go about it. It’s very evident when someone is just making a product to fill a sku. Which can be said for anyone company making any product, which is why you should just do what is best for you and not give in the the gimmick

[silhouette]

To have thought that when I said these skater owned companies just want our money meant that some kid making a zine shouldn’t be making money off his passion was either willfully ignorant or just grabbing at low hanging fruit.

No I meant it, it's just interesting to me where you're drawing the line between both worlds. I appreciate you clarifying that you're talking about shoes in particular as 'skater-owned' in general is a concept I think is still valid to this day despite the constant recuperation and abuse of the phrase that makes it hold a lot less water in the public eye. A lot of companies who publicly flaunt that banner really shouldn't be the ones flaunting it (or should we really mourn the death of Numbers as the loss of a 'garage company' - remember that?).

I think it's technically possible to start a shoe company with the exact same visionary drive a different person would put into a mag or clothing or board brand, shoes personally bore the hell out of me but I can see how there is room for creativity in the field, surely the investment required and stakes involved are higher which already filters out many (who would then rather contribute to the culture differently, in maybe more crucial ways too) but I think I can sense what people are trying to achieve with stuff like Proper or State and it's really similar to why others would launch a mag or board company. Of course the deal being bigger the entrepreneur will have to make more serious compromises but some are willing to retain at least some humanity in their operation and keep communication with the average skateboarder their fundamental purpose over making anonymous money. I know I'm mostly talking ideally, though, as the current landscape of shoe companies really is a shitshow and if State wasn't around because its founder had a specific vision for something then I'd have no idea what I would genuinely want to skate. Or even watch when it comes to shoe company videos in general because what else is there, bland commercials like 'Away Days' or 'Album' (please note how I'm including an Etnies video) that look like they were destined to play on loop in malls?

Your point on things being mutual is interesting because maybe that's where our difference lies. I personally don't benefit from anything out of whatever it is Nike, Adidas or Vans produce and if anything they just pollute my landscape by killing every possible alternative, like I've explained before I find their aggressive marketing to be detrimental to the culture the way I personally appreciate it so the relationship is worse than sterile. On the other hand I benefit from State as I genuinely enjoy the direction, team, videos and product, but I can definitely see things get switched around for you if somehow you do positively benefit from corporations.

Besides that, though, everything else you said I'm generally on board with and agree with the basic message of.

[snowballz]

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Maybe because I just can grasp what you’re trying to say friend. It’s ok, but you did try to come at my character and now you’re trying to make it seem like you’re just trying to shoot the shit. Every response you youve made has been mostly incoherent and doesn’t really bring much to the conversation at hand. But I do respect your opinion hence why I’ve read every single word you’ve written. Ive never said that skaters shouldn’t start businesses or that they should blindly follow “catchphrases”. I’ve actually been saying the exact opposite of that so again I’m not sure what you’re trying to say. At the end of the day you, the individual is what matters the most. If there is anything anyone can take away from what I written in this god forsaken thread is that the individual and their sovereignty is the most important thing in, dare I say, THE WORLD! Now go out there and be you! 

[close]

Again asking open questions on a forum isn't coming at someone's character, and again you're distorting my words like I'm talking specifically about you and questioning your personal logic when I honestly don't care and am trying to speak in general. Bit on the catchphrases even had a disclaimer originally that I ended up deleting as I thought you wouldn't need it. I'm not even trying to argue with you personally, it's just a calm discussion (albeit lengthy), not a boxing ring.

Although I will say I love it when you say my responses have been incoherent when I've been stating cold hard facts you just don't like hearing or just hadn't heard of before regarding some specific practices from the big names and you've been carefully dancing around every one of them to instead bring up the big great concept of individuality every time like that's a magic spell. To be honest in general I really don't like it when such big great concepts become a marketing tool, and illusory freedom and happiness is exactly what most merchants in the world rely on, even when what they're pushing is something purely material and occasionally stupid like shoes. In the end I still don't know what you think about that impact on the culture I was just describing (if you even care) and about all the more sincere, smaller personal enterprises being killed and people losing jobs.

Now there's one thing I have to specify (I have on here before but you most likely never saw it), it's that living in the past praising outdated social and industrial models generally sucks (which is why I make it a point not to think in boxes and instead try and remain critical of singular facts no matter where they originate from), and in reality those corporations also currently provide jobs to countless skateboarders who genuinely believe in the strength of what it is they're doing, and really more power to those guys sweating it hard for what they think is skateboarding when it's really just for their employer (a dichotomy many feel on the daily, trust me), it's a filter on the people's voices to begin with and then a constant hassle to have to align with the direction of a select few entities in order to even have a chance of making any money from skating that way. It's like having a passion for pizza and somehow aspiring to work at Domino's only to be told to wear a uniform and cut your hair.

Also, the doctor you're referring to I actually had to visit several times upon developing bursitis in both feet from skating a bunch of Adidas shoes in a row that were mere cardboard years ago, and tendinitis again in both feet from skating Sk8-Hi's (what a scam of a product), so I actually get you on how most so-called skate shoes are in fact atrocious for the body, I just never got that from State and that has nothing to do with whether they're skater-owned. Different experiences are real.

Honestly it pains me a little to see you take every observation and turn of this conversation with me as a personal challenge. I actually appreciate you taking time out of your day to discuss all kinds of things skating on here, I always wish this place had more actual skate talk and less gossip. But coming on a public forum, by definition you have to be prepared for people to challenge your vision the same way you seem excited challenge theirs, it's the nature of the place (and a precious opportunity) to expose you to different opinions and in the end, always a good reminder that everyone shits with their pants down regardless of their experience in the field and that no one owns the truth. Joining a message board expecting a one-way act is delusional.

[close]

You’re points are obvious and more about how I present my ideas and how my personality comes across on the screen. It’s has little to do with the thoughts I’ve took the time to entertain you with. Because you are right, this forum has been a joke lately. I love skateboarding to my core. I don’t wanna get too deep into that kind of stuff because I hate when people try to use those emotions as a tool. But at the end of the day I’m going to skate no matter who’s getting paid, No matter who owns who, or blah blah blah. I will still be skating. Use whatever tools you see fit to continue skating because that is what matters most. At least me it is, and if you don’t think that makes any sense then that’s ok. I’m completely open to new ideas but when what you’re saying strengthens and even sometimes align with what has already been said I have to wonder what are you really taking about then? Because you haven’t added anything that isn’t already implied. Trust me when I say I truly speak from experience. There are way more skaters who don’t work for skate company’s than do and vice versa. And you know what, it doesn’t matter because at the end of the day when it’s time to let someone go it doesn’t matter if you skate. because the system we live is not set up for us to succeed. You have to look out and be aware of what benefits you.Because if you haven’t noticed we don’t have control over much. And if what benefits you is riding X brand then do so without having to worry about what people think of it. I think you are taking it personally if anything my friend because again idk who I’m even typing to. And not just cause of obvious reason but because I am answering this questions without even reading who is sending them. I’m just responding so idk if you have read every single post I’ve made in this thread but I assure you that I have read and responded to everyone with no offense taken by whoever is responding to me. I mentioned the “ attack on my character” because it’s a common thing people do when presented with logic they don’t understand. To have thought that when I said these skater owned companies just want our money meant that some kid making a zine shouldn’t be making money off his passion was either willfully ignorant or just grabbing at low hanging fruit. I do not take any other this personally, what I’m saying is if you don’t agree with me at least say something with substance.

holy shit can you guys PLEASE just shut the fuck up or DM each other or some shit

[90sDamiano]

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To have thought that when I said these skater owned companies just want our money meant that some kid making a zine shouldn’t be making money off his passion was either willfully ignorant or just grabbing at low hanging fruit.

[close]

No I meant it, it's just interesting to me where you're drawing the line between both worlds. I appreciate you clarifying that you're talking about shoes in particular as 'skater-owned' in general is a concept I think is still valid to this day despite the constant recuperation and abuse of the phrase that makes it hold a lot less water in the public eye. A lot of companies who publicly flaunt that banner really shouldn't be the ones flaunting it (or should we really mourn the death of Numbers as the loss of a 'garage company' - remember that?).

I think it's technically possible to start a shoe company with the exact same visionary drive a different person would put into a mag or clothing or board brand, shoes personally bore the hell out of me but I can see how there is room for creativity in the field, surely the investment required and stakes involved are higher which already filters out many (who would then rather contribute to the culture differently, in maybe more crucial ways too) but I think I can sense what people are trying to achieve with stuff like Proper or State and it's really similar to why others would launch a mag or board company. Of course the deal being bigger the entrepreneur will have to make more serious compromises but some are willing to retain at least some humanity in their operation and keep communication with the average skateboarder their fundamental purpose over making anonymous money. I know I'm mostly talking ideally, though, as the current landscape of shoe companies really is a shitshow and if State wasn't around because its founder had a specific vision for something then I'd have no idea what I would genuinely want to skate. Or even watch when it comes to shoe company videos in general because what else is there, bland commercials like 'Away Days' or 'Album' (please note how I'm including an Etnies video) that look like they were destined to play on loop in malls?

Your point on things being mutual is interesting because maybe that's where our difference lies. I personally don't benefit from anything out of whatever it is Nike, Adidas or Vans produce and if anything they just pollute my landscape by killing every possible alternative, like I've explained before I find their aggressive marketing to be detrimental to the culture the way I personally appreciate it so the relationship is worse than sterile. On the other hand I benefit from State as I genuinely enjoy the direction, team, videos and product, but I can definitely see things get switched around for you if somehow you do positively benefit from corporations.

Besides that, though, everything else you said I'm generally on board with and agree with the basic message of.

I have never stated that I benefit from corporations, my point is actual that there is little to no benefit from whoever you choose to support and to use your money to invest in yourself.  If state ended tomorrow all of those riders you and I both admire will end up skating in whatever they seem fit for themselves as individuals. The only reason they even have a team is for marketing purposes. To influence you into buy buying the gear. I personally do not care for most skateboard marketing no matter who owns the company. Most of it comes of as bland or predictable. What excites me and gets me wanting a pair of kicks is looking back at the old skate videos like watching Clyde singleton skate in some Suedes. Or Pete Eldridge in Shell toes. Have you seen that photo of Gino doing a hardflip in Air Force ones? That shit is timeless. That’s why I’ve said that we influence them, because we already adopted their tools and repurposed it as our own, we make them cool. I don’t need adidas skateboarding but I also know where to find quality tools for my skateboarding when I need them. And you should do the same, make your own decisions on what works best for you with out having to enter a debate on which is the right or wrong choice. But to ignore clear difference between quality is still baffling. I can assure you 100% that the owner of whatever skater owned company will tell you that their product is not on par with some of the other competitors that’s been supply the market for decades because of Capitalism, and if this is a critic on Capitalism then we’re gunna be here all day

[90sDamiano]

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Maybe because I just can grasp what you’re trying to say friend. It’s ok, but you did try to come at my character and now you’re trying to make it seem like you’re just trying to shoot the shit. Every response you youve made has been mostly incoherent and doesn’t really bring much to the conversation at hand. But I do respect your opinion hence why I’ve read every single word you’ve written. Ive never said that skaters shouldn’t start businesses or that they should blindly follow “catchphrases”. I’ve actually been saying the exact opposite of that so again I’m not sure what you’re trying to say. At the end of the day you, the individual is what matters the most. If there is anything anyone can take away from what I written in this god forsaken thread is that the individual and their sovereignty is the most important thing in, dare I say, THE WORLD! Now go out there and be you! 

[close]

Again asking open questions on a forum isn't coming at someone's character, and again you're distorting my words like I'm talking specifically about you and questioning your personal logic when I honestly don't care and am trying to speak in general. Bit on the catchphrases even had a disclaimer originally that I ended up deleting as I thought you wouldn't need it. I'm not even trying to argue with you personally, it's just a calm discussion (albeit lengthy), not a boxing ring.

Although I will say I love it when you say my responses have been incoherent when I've been stating cold hard facts you just don't like hearing or just hadn't heard of before regarding some specific practices from the big names and you've been carefully dancing around every one of them to instead bring up the big great concept of individuality every time like that's a magic spell. To be honest in general I really don't like it when such big great concepts become a marketing tool, and illusory freedom and happiness is exactly what most merchants in the world rely on, even when what they're pushing is something purely material and occasionally stupid like shoes. In the end I still don't know what you think about that impact on the culture I was just describing (if you even care) and about all the more sincere, smaller personal enterprises being killed and people losing jobs.

Now there's one thing I have to specify (I have on here before but you most likely never saw it), it's that living in the past praising outdated social and industrial models generally sucks (which is why I make it a point not to think in boxes and instead try and remain critical of singular facts no matter where they originate from), and in reality those corporations also currently provide jobs to countless skateboarders who genuinely believe in the strength of what it is they're doing, and really more power to those guys sweating it hard for what they think is skateboarding when it's really just for their employer (a dichotomy many feel on the daily, trust me), it's a filter on the people's voices to begin with and then a constant hassle to have to align with the direction of a select few entities in order to even have a chance of making any money from skating that way. It's like having a passion for pizza and somehow aspiring to work at Domino's only to be told to wear a uniform and cut your hair.

Also, the doctor you're referring to I actually had to visit several times upon developing bursitis in both feet from skating a bunch of Adidas shoes in a row that were mere cardboard years ago, and tendinitis again in both feet from skating Sk8-Hi's (what a scam of a product), so I actually get you on how most so-called skate shoes are in fact atrocious for the body, I just never got that from State and that has nothing to do with whether they're skater-owned. Different experiences are real.

Honestly it pains me a little to see you take every observation and turn of this conversation with me as a personal challenge. I actually appreciate you taking time out of your day to discuss all kinds of things skating on here, I always wish this place had more actual skate talk and less gossip. But coming on a public forum, by definition you have to be prepared for people to challenge your vision the same way you seem excited challenge theirs, it's the nature of the place (and a precious opportunity) to expose you to different opinions and in the end, always a good reminder that everyone shits with their pants down regardless of their experience in the field and that no one owns the truth. Joining a message board expecting a one-way act is delusional.

[close]

You’re points are obvious and more about how I present my ideas and how my personality comes across on the screen. It’s has little to do with the thoughts I’ve took the time to entertain you with. Because you are right, this forum has been a joke lately. I love skateboarding to my core. I don’t wanna get too deep into that kind of stuff because I hate when people try to use those emotions as a tool. But at the end of the day I’m going to skate no matter who’s getting paid, No matter who owns who, or blah blah blah. I will still be skating. Use whatever tools you see fit to continue skating because that is what matters most. At least me it is, and if you don’t think that makes any sense then that’s ok. I’m completely open to new ideas but when what you’re saying strengthens and even sometimes align with what has already been said I have to wonder what are you really taking about then? Because you haven’t added anything that isn’t already implied. Trust me when I say I truly speak from experience. There are way more skaters who don’t work for skate company’s than do and vice versa. And you know what, it doesn’t matter because at the end of the day when it’s time to let someone go it doesn’t matter if you skate. because the system we live is not set up for us to succeed. You have to look out and be aware of what benefits you.Because if you haven’t noticed we don’t have control over much. And if what benefits you is riding X brand then do so without having to worry about what people think of it. I think you are taking it personally if anything my friend because again idk who I’m even typing to. And not just cause of obvious reason but because I am answering this questions without even reading who is sending them. I’m just responding so idk if you have read every single post I’ve made in this thread but I assure you that I have read and responded to everyone with no offense taken by whoever is responding to me. I mentioned the “ attack on my character” because it’s a common thing people do when presented with logic they don’t understand. To have thought that when I said these skater owned companies just want our money meant that some kid making a zine shouldn’t be making money off his passion was either willfully ignorant or just grabbing at low hanging fruit. I do not take any other this personally, what I’m saying is if you don’t agree with me at least say something with substance.

[close]

holy shit can you guys PLEASE just shut the fuck up or DM each other or some shit

If you don’t want to read it move on lol who are u to control how people communicate? Very interesting

[90sDamiano]

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Maybe because I just can grasp what you’re trying to say friend. It’s ok, but you did try to come at my character and now you’re trying to make it seem like you’re just trying to shoot the shit. Every response you youve made has been mostly incoherent and doesn’t really bring much to the conversation at hand. But I do respect your opinion hence why I’ve read every single word you’ve written. Ive never said that skaters shouldn’t start businesses or that they should blindly follow “catchphrases”. I’ve actually been saying the exact opposite of that so again I’m not sure what you’re trying to say. At the end of the day you, the individual is what matters the most. If there is anything anyone can take away from what I written in this god forsaken thread is that the individual and their sovereignty is the most important thing in, dare I say, THE WORLD! Now go out there and be you! 

[close]

Again asking open questions on a forum isn't coming at someone's character, and again you're distorting my words like I'm talking specifically about you and questioning your personal logic when I honestly don't care and am trying to speak in general. Bit on the catchphrases even had a disclaimer originally that I ended up deleting as I thought you wouldn't need it. I'm not even trying to argue with you personally, it's just a calm discussion (albeit lengthy), not a boxing ring.

Although I will say I love it when you say my responses have been incoherent when I've been stating cold hard facts you just don't like hearing or just hadn't heard of before regarding some specific practices from the big names and you've been carefully dancing around every one of them to instead bring up the big great concept of individuality every time like that's a magic spell. To be honest in general I really don't like it when such big great concepts become a marketing tool, and illusory freedom and happiness is exactly what most merchants in the world rely on, even when what they're pushing is something purely material and occasionally stupid like shoes. In the end I still don't know what you think about that impact on the culture I was just describing (if you even care) and about all the more sincere, smaller personal enterprises being killed and people losing jobs.

Now there's one thing I have to specify (I have on here before but you most likely never saw it), it's that living in the past praising outdated social and industrial models generally sucks (which is why I make it a point not to think in boxes and instead try and remain critical of singular facts no matter where they originate from), and in reality those corporations also currently provide jobs to countless skateboarders who genuinely believe in the strength of what it is they're doing, and really more power to those guys sweating it hard for what they think is skateboarding when it's really just for their employer (a dichotomy many feel on the daily, trust me), it's a filter on the people's voices to begin with and then a constant hassle to have to align with the direction of a select few entities in order to even have a chance of making any money from skating that way. It's like having a passion for pizza and somehow aspiring to work at Domino's only to be told to wear a uniform and cut your hair.

Also, the doctor you're referring to I actually had to visit several times upon developing bursitis in both feet from skating a bunch of Adidas shoes in a row that were mere cardboard years ago, and tendinitis again in both feet from skating Sk8-Hi's (what a scam of a product), so I actually get you on how most so-called skate shoes are in fact atrocious for the body, I just never got that from State and that has nothing to do with whether they're skater-owned. Different experiences are real.

Honestly it pains me a little to see you take every observation and turn of this conversation with me as a personal challenge. I actually appreciate you taking time out of your day to discuss all kinds of things skating on here, I always wish this place had more actual skate talk and less gossip. But coming on a public forum, by definition you have to be prepared for people to challenge your vision the same way you seem excited challenge theirs, it's the nature of the place (and a precious opportunity) to expose you to different opinions and in the end, always a good reminder that everyone shits with their pants down regardless of their experience in the field and that no one owns the truth. Joining a message board expecting a one-way act is delusional.

[close]

You’re points are obvious and more about how I present my ideas and how my personality comes across on the screen. It’s has little to do with the thoughts I’ve took the time to entertain you with. Because you are right, this forum has been a joke lately. I love skateboarding to my core. I don’t wanna get too deep into that kind of stuff because I hate when people try to use those emotions as a tool. But at the end of the day I’m going to skate no matter who’s getting paid, No matter who owns who, or blah blah blah. I will still be skating. Use whatever tools you see fit to continue skating because that is what matters most. At least me it is, and if you don’t think that makes any sense then that’s ok. I’m completely open to new ideas but when what you’re saying strengthens and even sometimes align with what has already been said I have to wonder what are you really taking about then? Because you haven’t added anything that isn’t already implied. Trust me when I say I truly speak from experience. There are way more skaters who don’t work for skate company’s than do and vice versa. And you know what, it doesn’t matter because at the end of the day when it’s time to let someone go it doesn’t matter if you skate. because the system we live is not set up for us to succeed. You have to look out and be aware of what benefits you.Because if you haven’t noticed we don’t have control over much. And if what benefits you is riding X brand then do so without having to worry about what people think of it. I think you are taking it personally if anything my friend because again idk who I’m even typing to. And not just cause of obvious reason but because I am answering this questions without even reading who is sending them. I’m just responding so idk if you have read every single post I’ve made in this thread but I assure you that I have read and responded to everyone with no offense taken by whoever is responding to me. I mentioned the “ attack on my character” because it’s a common thing people do when presented with logic they don’t understand. To have thought that when I said these skater owned companies just want our money meant that some kid making a zine shouldn’t be making money off his passion was either willfully ignorant or just grabbing at low hanging fruit. I do not take any other this personally, what I’m saying is if you don’t agree with me at least say something with substance.

[close]

holy shit can you guys PLEASE just shut the fuck up or DM each other or some shit

Would you like to add to the conversation? This is a forum after all