@useless_wooden_knowledge vs Evergreen Skateparks/Bad Park Design

[manysnakes]

"they’re simply not truly functional and definitely not what the majority of skaters, especially younger skaters, want to ride."

I see lots of younger skaters tearing up Evergreen parks, actually I see young-lings ripping Evergreen harder than most adult skaters, at least Oregon and Washington... It's like the grown ups are too rusty/grumpy for all the fun transition...

I live in the Northwest, and there are Evergreen Parks all around. These designs don't seem stop the kids from skating. I obviously can't speak for every park Evergreen builds, but in my experience this style of park is only a hindrance if you come expecting your own little Stoner or an SLS Park. But if you're a 12 year old grom with a flowy Evergreen spot in your backyard, in my experience you're just a flowy little ripper, instead of a 10 stair jumper.

Speaking strictly personally, I am much more interested in skateparks which offer me something I won't find on the streets, and these sorts of parks scratch that itch.

[Frank and Fred]

Evergreen also get some criticism from transition skaters. I've skated with Billy the owner and he's a ripper and very competent at what he does. Most of their parks look super fun to me but I like to skate a wide variety of stuff and I could see why some people would be bummed on some of the no coping pump track interconnected bowl scenarios.

I've skated a few of their Oregon parks and a couple are admittedly complete garbage but some look like and are an incredibly good time.

It's a tough one. I remember back in the 2000s when parks were exploding again, some people were bummed at Dreamland and Grinidline designs as they were deemed inaccessible by young kids who wanted to ledge dance. Yet, those parks produced some unreal transition-based rippers. Donald Oregon is a crazy example. A tiny, one horse town got a replica of the Nude Bowl and some were bummed but the town is proud of their pool and at least one got to make a career out of skateboarding.

Community input is super important but its also rad when designer/ builders get to go a bit wild  and creative. Compromises can usually be reached, it seems.

[augustmoon]

those parks look fun for like 5 people in each town.  every park needs at least a few ledges, rails/flatbars, some hips, and a quarter pipe or two.  "responsible" guys in their 40s/50s are the most likely to be taken seriously by their parks and recs dept, and i think it really sucks that a lot of the time they use that access to build some shit they want, when the main purpose of the park should be for kids to learn how to skate.

 If I had a dollar for every park i've seen where a couple dozen kids are crowded around the one box and flatbar, while the massive, overly ambitious bowl monstrosity collects rainwater, i'd have enough for my own Evergreen pump track in my backyard

[Star Whores Episode I: The Fellatio Menace]

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Speaking strictly personally, I am much more interested in skateparks which offer me something I won't find on the streets, and these sorts of parks scratch that itch.

[close]

I probably wouldn't have even gone to these parks or to Montana at all if these parks weren't there. if they were designed as sort of a tourist attraction rather than a training facility then they succeeded.

and also for that reason I don't really like the way the IG post "called out" evergreen. that last park on their post is in a town of 800 people. and all those ones in MT are in towns of around 2000 people. there aren't that many skaters that even live there. maybe they built exactly what the skaters there wanted

but personally I live in a town (city?) that's actually pretty big, we have some bowl parks and ditches, almost no street spots, not even skateable curbs,  and the roads themselves are rough and crappy . I wish there was like an opposite Evergreen that went around and built smooth flatland with curbs and ledges...

The second park on the IG post has a more 'vanilla' park nearby in Breckenridge available to kids who don't want to pump around that crazy bowl. As long as there are options, I don't mind skating something a bit wild like this. It makes you a better skater and the locals eventually figure it out.

Not every skatepark needs to have the exact same layout.

[Double Thick Filbert]

Kids/teens don't want to skate pump tracks and everybody knows it. Parks like these are designed for and by old fucks who on are on opioids or antidepressants and don't pop their board.

[boi-cuzudo]

Kids/teens don't want to skate pump tracks and everybody knows it. Parks like these are designed for and by old fucks who on are on opioids or antidepressants and don't pop their board.

What kid teens want to ride?

[EdLawndale]

I imagine the main underlying reason behind cities building skate parks is to try to discourage kids from skating local businesses and schools. And I don't think  these pump track parks achieve that goal at all.

[duster1]

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Kids/teens don't want to skate pump tracks and everybody knows it. Parks like these are designed for and by old fucks who on are on opioids or antidepressants and don't pop their board.

[close]

What kid teens want to ride?

MILF’s

[dilbert1]

I could see why some people would be bummed on some of the no coping pump track interconnected bowl scenarios

Horrible succession of words

[Toadfish Rebecchi]

As a man in my late thirties, I don't want to hang out anywhere where bearded men my age are wearing trucker caps and smashing the coping with their boards like apes when someone does a grind. These parks look like they'd attract that demographic.

But I live in Australia where there's about 6 parks of varied shapes and sizes within a twenty minute drive from my house, and I pretty much just skate the carpark at the local TAFE by myself anyway. So I don't have to deal with any of that.

[ihatejulio]

these parks have no spot for me to do rocket stationary kickflips on flat so what's the point 

[backside_reacharound]

As a man in my late thirties, I don't want to hang out anywhere where bearded men my age are wearing trucker caps and smashing the coping with their boards like apes when someone does a grind. These parks look like they'd attract that demographic.

But I live in Australia where there's about 6 parks of varied shapes and sizes within a twenty minute drive from my house, and I pretty much just skate the carpark at the local TAFE by myself anyway. So I don't have to deal with any of that.

Absolutely skateboarding's worst demographic, by far...

[Giza Butler]

Skateparks have generally lost their appeal for me growing up, after the 2010 skatepark "coolness" now parks are merely hangouts for everyone who RIDES.  Rules are hard to be enforced as the user age range is too wide to be accepted by everyone.

Basically, take them for what they are, and then from there, build yourself something to skate that you like, rubbrick a curb, go skate street or just support your local DIY.

Skateparks are essential, but you can't pretend that the one being built in your hometown HAS to be the perfect one. Imagine how upset a California Skatepark/Street League guy is when a Dreamland park gets built and vice-versa.

Skateboarding is cool because we can ride different obstacles and while overcoming the different problems that the spot/park presents, we're trying to have fun. End Rant. 

[Painted Baby]

Oops All Derbys

[Pete]

That looks like some shit espn would call boarder cross. BORDERX or somn like that. I don’t know if there’s any of these in jersey, but we’ve got our problem out here known as Spohn Ranch. The one that makes parks that look concrete but it’s really this weird foam then coat with a small layer of concrete on top. The only the parks can be described is “hollow” if that makes any sense, and that shits gotta fuckin go.

Not even like I use these parks, but these things ultimately just turn kids away from skating. bc when it’s either skate some bullshit or just find something else to do, more than half is just gonna go build dirt jumps with their older brothers or some shit. Which is probably pretty cool and fun



Free max b

[Giza Butler]

That looks like some shit espn would call boarder cross. BORDERX or somn like that. I don’t know if there’s any of these in jersey, but we’ve got our problem out here known as Spohn Ranch. The one that makes parks that look concrete but it’s really this weird foam then coat with a small layer of concrete on top. The only the parks can be described is “hollow” if that makes any sense, and that shits gotta fuckin go.

Not even like I use these parks, but these things ultimately just turn kids away from skating. bc when it’s either skate some bullshit or just find something else to do, more than half is just gonna go build dirt jumps with their older brothers or some shit. Which is probably pretty cool and fun



Free max b

As much as I get your point Pete, how were the skateparks when you grew up? Did that refrain you from discovering the joys of skateboarding?

I'm just saying this argument is pointless, we could argue hours how red curbs are better compared to NY curbs but it's merely a personal preference.

[cherry]

Those hippies in the 70s that built the snake runs in Tampa, Santa Cruz and Baltimore had a good idea imo. Always liked the idea of a park being in a straight line rather than a circle.

If I won a phat lottery or something I would pave small trails on a mountain and basically create snowboard park for skateboards. Lift chairs and several “trails” that have varying features like a mini sf with drive way style bumps vs a more mellow hill with just some boxes and rails and a “transition” trail.

[bigdave]

You guys shitting on older bowl skaters are so cool. how hi cin u ollie

I am 44 and I too would rather be skating flat ground or a curb than be a fully padded up dude barely eeking out grinds in a bowl either, where the penalty of slamming is death, but they're fucking skateboarding at 57 or whatever, which is more than I can say for most human beings out walking around. Universally shitting on their "demographic" or whatever makes you a petulant, whiny bitch.

[IpathCats]

Those hippies in the 70s that built the snake runs in Tampa, Santa Cruz and Baltimore had a good idea imo. Always liked the idea of a park being in a straight line rather than a circle.

If I won a phat lottery or something I would pave small trails on a mountain and basically create snowboard park for skateboards. Lift chairs and several “trails” that have varying features like a mini sf with drive way style bumps vs a more mellow hill with just some boxes and rails and a “transition” trail.

That would be sick. No push lines the whole way down. You could even make flatter sections with the use of cutback turns and put smaller street shit in there. That downhill redbull contest that sheckler won was gnarly, though still pretty kooky.

[cky enthusiast]

Those hippies in the 70s that built the snake runs in Tampa, Santa Cruz and Baltimore had a good idea imo. Always liked the idea of a park being in a straight line rather than a circle.

If I won a phat lottery or something I would pave small trails on a mountain and basically create snowboard park for skateboards. Lift chairs and several “trails” that have varying features like a mini sf with drive way style bumps vs a more mellow hill with just some boxes and rails and a “transition” trail.

please do not pour concrete all over the side of a mountain jesus christ

[radcunt]

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As a man in my late thirties, I don't want to hang out anywhere where bearded men my age are wearing trucker caps and smashing the coping with their boards like apes when someone does a grind. These parks look like they'd attract that demographic.

But I live in Australia where there's about 6 parks of varied shapes and sizes within a twenty minute drive from my house, and I pretty much just skate the carpark at the local TAFE by myself anyway. So I don't have to deal with any of that.

[close]

Absolutely skateboarding's worst demographic, by far...

The Santa Cruzers

[GlenSuggittsflexfit]

I used to think these were a good idea until I went on a road trip and tried them out. They are fun for what they are but as others have mentioned, a bit limited.  Now I've sort of 180'd on the idea of "flow" as a good design concept for skate parks. I think you actually want different areas spread out where skater of different ability or just different terrain preference can practice stuff without getting in the way of everyone else.

IMO some of the biggest bummer new parks aren't Evergreen, but the ones where they combine "flow" ideas with regular obstacles. It doesn't work to have guys bailing the ledge/hubba right into the path all the scooter kids are zipping through

skatepark designer should start making containment zones for the scooters. like put the pump track and fly out off to the side, completely cut off from the ledge area, etc

lastly I don't think some of the counter argument consider the political reality of parks like this. like telling the kid to just go skate street or build their own. most of these are going up in small towns where there's no spots and small towns are pretty anti skateboarding. getting a park usually mean skateboarding is now banned everywhere else, and by the way we're also going to destroy the DIY spot at the old basketball court. so its the moon park or nothing. you better like it kid or else, we spent a lot of (Jeff Ament's) money on you ungrateful skate boarders...

[Giza Butler]

I used to think these were a good idea until I went on a road trip and tried them out. They are fun for what they are but as others have mentioned, a bit limited.  Now I've sort of 180'd on the idea of "flow" as a good design concept for skate parks. I think you actually want different areas spread out where skater of different ability or just different terrain preference can practice stuff without getting in the way of everyone else.

IMO some of the biggest bummer new parks aren't Evergreen, but the ones where they combine "flow" ideas with regular obstacles. It doesn't work to have guys bailing the ledge/hubba right into the path all the scooter kids are zipping through

skatepark designer should start making containment zones for the scooters. like put the pump track and fly out off to the side, completely cut off from the ledge area, etc

lastly I don't think some of the counter argument consider the political reality of parks like this. like telling the kid to just go skate street or build their own. most of these are going up in small towns where there's no spots and small towns are pretty anti skateboarding. getting a park usually mean skateboarding is now banned everywhere else, and by the way we're also going to destroy the DIY spot at the old basketball court. so its the moon park or nothing. you better like it kid or else, we spent a lot of (Jeff Ament's) money on you ungrateful skate boarders...

To be honest I get your point, and being from Europe it's even more true, but for example, we had our park renewed and basically almost sucked more than the previous one.

This created a divide, between who was very into it, and started skating more other skateparks around (getting on a train or driving around) or just by hitting streets or making diy spots (not parks) and the kids who wanted a better park and eventually stopped skateboarding.

My whole point is, unless you are involved 100% in the skatepark design process (and even that is still sometimes a bummer) you shouldn't be that concerned, because no-one is gonna go out of its way to ask you what you want to skate.

Sometimes park builders have to listen to the town, sometimes the local shop, sometimes the scooter kids, this way you end up having a public skatepark. It need to be suitable for everybody, so here's the problem.

Has anyone skated a "perfect park"?

Let's turn this thread to "What's your ideal skatepark?"  Mine is Stockwell in London.

[mj23]

 I think it’s rad that we can even have this conversation. When I was a kid any kind of park at all was a big deal. Now we have more to choose from, more knowledge, and enough competing companies to serve different niches, each with their own spin on things.

Personally I am of the opinion that the ideal park should be integrated with general purpose urban space, blending the boundary between purpose-built skatepark and general public plaza or street spot. Recreate the dynamic of famous plaza spots like J Kwon, Love, Macba, etc. Not the easiest to pull off when working with lawyers and local government but it happens once in a while. Helps to make skateboarding a part of public life instead of something that gets ghettoized. Not gonna satisfy people who want flow and transition but oh well, you can never please everyone.

[GumOnMyGrip]

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I used to think these were a good idea until I went on a road trip and tried them out. They are fun for what they are but as others have mentioned, a bit limited.  Now I've sort of 180'd on the idea of "flow" as a good design concept for skate parks. I think you actually want different areas spread out where skater of different ability or just different terrain preference can practice stuff without getting in the way of everyone else.

IMO some of the biggest bummer new parks aren't Evergreen, but the ones where they combine "flow" ideas with regular obstacles. It doesn't work to have guys bailing the ledge/hubba right into the path all the scooter kids are zipping through

skatepark designer should start making containment zones for the scooters. like put the pump track and fly out off to the side, completely cut off from the ledge area, etc

lastly I don't think some of the counter argument consider the political reality of parks like this. like telling the kid to just go skate street or build their own. most of these are going up in small towns where there's no spots and small towns are pretty anti skateboarding. getting a park usually mean skateboarding is now banned everywhere else, and by the way we're also going to destroy the DIY spot at the old basketball court. so its the moon park or nothing. you better like it kid or else, we spent a lot of (Jeff Ament's) money on you ungrateful skate boarders...

[close]

To be honest I get your point, and being from Europe it's even more true, but for example, we had our park renewed and basically almost sucked more than the previous one.

This created a divide, between who was very into it, and started skating more other skateparks around (getting on a train or driving around) or just by hitting streets or making diy spots (not parks) and the kids who wanted a better park and eventually stopped skateboarding.

My whole point is, unless you are involved 100% in the skatepark design process (and even that is still sometimes a bummer) you shouldn't be that concerned, because no-one is gonna go out of its way to ask you what you want to skate.

Sometimes park builders have to listen to the town, sometimes the local shop, sometimes the scooter kids, this way you end up having a public skatepark. It need to be suitable for everybody, so here's the problem.

Has anyone skated a "perfect park"?

Let's turn this thread to "What's your ideal skatepark?"  Mine is Stockwell in London.

Battleground WA has pretty much everything.

[OMSK]

Has anyone skated a "perfect park"?

Boise, ID is one of the best parks I have ever skated... a close second would be Lakeland, FL. (Battleground is good, but it needs some maintenance to get back to it's former glory)

Lansdowne in MD is my all-time favorite though because it's the park I grew up skating.

[Frank and Fred]

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I could see why some people would be bummed on some of the no coping pump track interconnected bowl scenarios

[close]

Horrible succession of words

My deepest apologies I was on the phone with Cormac McCarthy earlier and he agrees that I should have said,

Noping, rounded lip, flow vortex, moonscape arrangement.

[butterballs for jerry]

Has anyone skated a "perfect park"?

Boise, ID is one of the best parks I have ever skated... a close second would be Lakeland, FL. (Battleground is good, but it needs some maintenance to get back to it's former glory)

Lansdowne in MD is my all-time favorite though because it's the park I grew up skating.

Skater Island was a perfect skatepark. RIP.

[IpathCats]

Last DIY evangelist post in this thread I promise. The park you build yourself, will be the most perfect one. Perfection is subjective, so build what YOU want.

[jorge]

good thing you can always skate street

100%.  I guess I'm in the minority, but I would way rather have one of these weirdo parks to try and figure out than some perfect pre fab thing with a ledge and a hip or whatever.  If I want to skate street obstacles I'll go street skating, I'm not trying to train over here.