Weck on Transphobia

[Abyss1]

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Probably because it's just as easy to get your shit together and deal with a joke. Probably because other people make it their life goal to state that they don't care about you. By the way, Weck's joke is specifically awful for targeting real people and clearly denying the respect they should have, like textbook transphobia. He only gets away with it cause he's Weck and you expect him to be regular looking for attention anyways.

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Calling out a joke for being transphobic isn't "not dealing with a joke".  People are dealing with the joke just fine.  They're also calling out an asshole for being an asshole.

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I watch a shit ton of stand up comedy and nothing about what weck did was anything close to being a joke, his clip was punching down and hes purposely being a heel to get attention, its so fucking whack how people troll nowadays

[close]

Stay on target.
The problem isn't the actual joke it's that it's transphobic.

 its actually a solid joke that uses some tried and tested comedy techniques. It's classic dad/Xmas cracker shitty wordplay. The goal isn't to make the audience laugh at how clever it is but rather how dumb it is. It also has a suprise element because you wouldn't expect an actual adult to be that ignorant in 2021.

Also people really need to get off this whole punching up/down thing. It's never been a part of comedy.

Anyway just incase it's not clear I'm very much on the fuck weck side. -from another comedy expert.

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Just saw the new chappelle special so weird the last half of it he talks about this very issue

[close]

Yeah shit ok then. I can accept if I'm wrong I'm not a huge Chapelle guy so I'm probably not going to watch his special (at least for a little while) so I'll take your word for it.
It's still not really what comedy was about in the past (protecting those "lower" and punching those "higher") it was mostly observations and story telling. But I guess times gotta change.

He said what you are sayin so your not missing anything

[Loki700]

Yeah shit ok then. I can accept if I'm wrong I'm not a huge Chapelle guy so I'm probably not going to watch his special (at least for a little while) so I'll take your word for it.
It's still not really what comedy was about in the past (protecting those "lower" and punching those "higher") it was mostly observations and story telling. But I guess times gotta change.

It kind of has though.  Even now, you can make a joke about whatever you want, just like back then.  It might be funny, it might not.  But if you’re an asshole for making the joke, people are going to call you out on it, and more people are willing to call out assholes than before because communication has gotten better and they realize they’re not the only ones that think the comic is an asshole.

The whole “punching up” or “punching down” thing is just a good shorthand for how likely people are to think you’re an asshole and criticize you.  If you punch up and you’re a colossal asshole about it, people might still call you out for being an asshole.

[mj23]

I saw Leo skating a street spot in Brooklyn over the weekend, rolling with a crew and ripping.

Never seen Weck out in these streets.

Just sayin

[Mean salto]

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Yeah shit ok then. I can accept if I'm wrong I'm not a huge Chapelle guy so I'm probably not going to watch his special (at least for a little while) so I'll take your word for it.
It's still not really what comedy was about in the past (protecting those "lower" and punching those "higher") it was mostly observations and story telling. But I guess times gotta change.

[close]

It kind of has though.  Even now, you can make a joke about whatever you want, just like back then.  It might be funny, it might not.  But if you’re an asshole for making the joke, people are going to call you out on it, and more people are willing to call out assholes than before because communication has gotten better and they realize they’re not the only ones that think the comic is an asshole.

The whole “punching up” or “punching down” thing is just a good shorthand for how likely people are to think you’re an asshole and criticize you.  If you punch up and you’re a colossal asshole about it, people might still call you out for being an asshole.

Yeah I agree with all that.
Not really what I meant tho. I meant more it seems like people think "good" comedy HAS to punch up and stand for something. As if comedy can't exist if it's not trying to take a shot at someone.

I very much agree if you're an asshole you can get called out.

[DaleSr]

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Yeah shit ok then. I can accept if I'm wrong I'm not a huge Chapelle guy so I'm probably not going to watch his special (at least for a little while) so I'll take your word for it.
It's still not really what comedy was about in the past (protecting those "lower" and punching those "higher") it was mostly observations and story telling. But I guess times gotta change.

[close]

It kind of has though.  Even now, you can make a joke about whatever you want, just like back then.  It might be funny, it might not.  But if you’re an asshole for making the joke, people are going to call you out on it, and more people are willing to call out assholes than before because communication has gotten better and they realize they’re not the only ones that think the comic is an asshole.

The whole “punching up” or “punching down” thing is just a good shorthand for how likely people are to think you’re an asshole and criticize you.  If you punch up and you’re a colossal asshole about it, people might still call you out for being an asshole.

[close]

Yeah I agree with all that.
Not really what I meant tho. I meant more it seems like people think "good" comedy HAS to punch up and stand for something. As if comedy can't exist if it's not trying to take a shot at someone.

I very much agree if you're an asshole you can get called out.

I think it's more of a good metric of what comedy will age well as social mores and attitudes continue to evolve

[Loki700]

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Yeah shit ok then. I can accept if I'm wrong I'm not a huge Chapelle guy so I'm probably not going to watch his special (at least for a little while) so I'll take your word for it.
It's still not really what comedy was about in the past (protecting those "lower" and punching those "higher") it was mostly observations and story telling. But I guess times gotta change.

[close]

It kind of has though.  Even now, you can make a joke about whatever you want, just like back then.  It might be funny, it might not.  But if you’re an asshole for making the joke, people are going to call you out on it, and more people are willing to call out assholes than before because communication has gotten better and they realize they’re not the only ones that think the comic is an asshole.

The whole “punching up” or “punching down” thing is just a good shorthand for how likely people are to think you’re an asshole and criticize you.  If you punch up and you’re a colossal asshole about it, people might still call you out for being an asshole.

[close]

Yeah I agree with all that.
Not really what I meant tho. I meant more it seems like people think "good" comedy HAS to punch up and stand for something. As if comedy can't exist if it's not trying to take a shot at someone.

I very much agree if you're an asshole you can get called out.

It's very hard to punch down and have it not make you look like an asshole, and thus hard to make "good".  Usually it has to have some sort of irony to it, and still some aspect that punches up, usually at the comic themselves.  Louis C.K., for all his horribleness, was particularly good at this.

Jokes that strictly punch down are essentially just bullying, which doesn't make for good comedy.

[Abyss1]

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Yeah shit ok then. I can accept if I'm wrong I'm not a huge Chapelle guy so I'm probably not going to watch his special (at least for a little while) so I'll take your word for it.
It's still not really what comedy was about in the past (protecting those "lower" and punching those "higher") it was mostly observations and story telling. But I guess times gotta change.

[close]

It kind of has though.  Even now, you can make a joke about whatever you want, just like back then.  It might be funny, it might not.  But if you’re an asshole for making the joke, people are going to call you out on it, and more people are willing to call out assholes than before because communication has gotten better and they realize they’re not the only ones that think the comic is an asshole.

The whole “punching up” or “punching down” thing is just a good shorthand for how likely people are to think you’re an asshole and criticize you.  If you punch up and you’re a colossal asshole about it, people might still call you out for being an asshole.

[close]

Yeah I agree with all that.
Not really what I meant tho. I meant more it seems like people think "good" comedy HAS to punch up and stand for something. As if comedy can't exist if it's not trying to take a shot at someone.

I very much agree if you're an asshole you can get called out.

[close]

I think it's more of a good metric of what comedy will age well as social mores and attitudes continue to evolve

I tend to think everyones sense of humor changes at some point, in the 90s a lot of our high school jokes wouldn't even fly in todays climate unless you're at some wealthy conservative private school. 

Good comedy is like good art, it wont make sense if you dont understand the time periods the art was made.  But I think we can all agree when someone is just trolling and being a clout goblin

[Mean salto]

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Yeah shit ok then. I can accept if I'm wrong I'm not a huge Chapelle guy so I'm probably not going to watch his special (at least for a little while) so I'll take your word for it.
It's still not really what comedy was about in the past (protecting those "lower" and punching those "higher") it was mostly observations and story telling. But I guess times gotta change.

[close]

It kind of has though.  Even now, you can make a joke about whatever you want, just like back then.  It might be funny, it might not.  But if you’re an asshole for making the joke, people are going to call you out on it, and more people are willing to call out assholes than before because communication has gotten better and they realize they’re not the only ones that think the comic is an asshole.

The whole “punching up” or “punching down” thing is just a good shorthand for how likely people are to think you’re an asshole and criticize you.  If you punch up and you’re a colossal asshole about it, people might still call you out for being an asshole.

[close]

Yeah I agree with all that.
Not really what I meant tho. I meant more it seems like people think "good" comedy HAS to punch up and stand for something. As if comedy can't exist if it's not trying to take a shot at someone.

I very much agree if you're an asshole you can get called out.

[close]

It's very hard to punch down and have it not make you look like an asshole, and thus hard to make "good".  Usually it has to have some sort of irony to it, and still some aspect that punches up, usually at the comic themselves.  Louis C.K., for all his horribleness, was particularly good at this.

Jokes that strictly punch down are essentially just bullying, which doesn't make for good comedy.

Yeah look mate I'm fucking lost now and don't know what's happening. I'm agreeing with everything youre saying and am obviously too dumb and tired (i'm an insomniac and most my posting is between 2-7am) to explain what I meant haha.
Forget the punching. I'm trying to say the majority of comedy was just funny shit happening. Being an asshole was always being an asshole but also comedians didn't have this duty to have to punch up. They didnt have to punch at all. 
Anyway I give up on this thread. My original point was to not get into what's good or bad comedy and focus on the weck part and now I'm a distraction.
 

[Mandatory Reload]

just noticed that Brian Panebianco (Sabotage) also has the post liked on IG. honestly wish i didn't have to know shitty stuff like this about these people lol

[zahed]

I saw Leo skating a street spot in Brooklyn over the weekend, rolling with a crew and ripping.

Never seen Weck out in these streets.

Just sayin

Hell yea!!!!!

[Síota]

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Yeah shit ok then. I can accept if I'm wrong I'm not a huge Chapelle guy so I'm probably not going to watch his special (at least for a little while) so I'll take your word for it.
It's still not really what comedy was about in the past (protecting those "lower" and punching those "higher") it was mostly observations and story telling. But I guess times gotta change.

[close]

It kind of has though.  Even now, you can make a joke about whatever you want, just like back then.  It might be funny, it might not.  But if you’re an asshole for making the joke, people are going to call you out on it, and more people are willing to call out assholes than before because communication has gotten better and they realize they’re not the only ones that think the comic is an asshole.

The whole “punching up” or “punching down” thing is just a good shorthand for how likely people are to think you’re an asshole and criticize you.  If you punch up and you’re a colossal asshole about it, people might still call you out for being an asshole.

[close]

Yeah I agree with all that.
Not really what I meant tho. I meant more it seems like people think "good" comedy HAS to punch up and stand for something. As if comedy can't exist if it's not trying to take a shot at someone.

I very much agree if you're an asshole you can get called out.

[close]

I think it's more of a good metric of what comedy will age well as social mores and attitudes continue to evolve

[close]

I tend to think everyones sense of humor changes at some point, in the 90s a lot of our high school jokes wouldn't even fly in todays climate unless you're at some wealthy conservative private school. 

Good comedy is like good art, it wont make sense if you dont understand the time periods the art was made.  But I think we can all agree when someone is just trolling and being a clout goblin

Even lyrics of some 90's music doesn't fly these days.

[rawbertson.]

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Yeah shit ok then. I can accept if I'm wrong I'm not a huge Chapelle guy so I'm probably not going to watch his special (at least for a little while) so I'll take your word for it.
It's still not really what comedy was about in the past (protecting those "lower" and punching those "higher") it was mostly observations and story telling. But I guess times gotta change.

[close]

It kind of has though.  Even now, you can make a joke about whatever you want, just like back then.  It might be funny, it might not.  But if you’re an asshole for making the joke, people are going to call you out on it, and more people are willing to call out assholes than before because communication has gotten better and they realize they’re not the only ones that think the comic is an asshole.

The whole “punching up” or “punching down” thing is just a good shorthand for how likely people are to think you’re an asshole and criticize you.  If you punch up and you’re a colossal asshole about it, people might still call you out for being an asshole.

[close]

Yeah I agree with all that.
Not really what I meant tho. I meant more it seems like people think "good" comedy HAS to punch up and stand for something. As if comedy can't exist if it's not trying to take a shot at someone.

I very much agree if you're an asshole you can get called out.

[close]

I think it's more of a good metric of what comedy will age well as social mores and attitudes continue to evolve

[close]

I tend to think everyones sense of humor changes at some point, in the 90s a lot of our high school jokes wouldn't even fly in todays climate unless you're at some wealthy conservative private school. 

Good comedy is like good art, it wont make sense if you dont understand the time periods the art was made.  But I think we can all agree when someone is just trolling and being a clout goblin

[close]

Even lyrics of some 90's music doesn't fly these days.

2000s tons of rap still saying faggot etc.

[butterballs for jerry]

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Late to the party here, but I'm shocked a mascot for toxic masculinity, who probably literally takes hormones to change his appearance, is hating on a trans person...

In other news the body builder that runs the nutrition shop near me, and makes most of his money selling steroids to cops, has been parking in the handicap spot in his new penis extender truck for the past two weeks and the 15 year old inside of me wants to vandalize it so bad.

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I'm bummed on HRs homophobic history but that's cause I've always been a jellohead myself

[close]

I like Jello as a singer and I’m not big on Greer, but Jello sucks with how he fucked over the rest of the band.

[close]

Yeah unfortunately when you become a small business owner, you do small business owner stuff aka fucking over other people

[close]

What actually happened? I was told the band wanted to sell the rights to holiday in Cambodia to Levi's Jeans for an ad, and Jello said fuck no so the split

[close]

Jello had claimed that, but he basically tried to steal royalties from the other members.

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wait wait wait, Dave Chappelle's transgender jokes were transphobic?? I didn't hear any hate or fear in those jokes, just funny material.

Are jokes involving trans people automatically persecution? I can see how Weck's joke was pretty mean spirited, but is there a line behind which a joke can be made? Can these people be joked about or are they off limits entirely for the next 50 years?

[close]

Phobia means “fear, intolerance, or aversion”.  Saying that a trans woman is not a woman or a trans man is not a man shows a clear intolerance and aversion to trans people.

Jokes involving trans people are fine.  Jokes made at their expense or trying to invalidate who they are are not ok and make you an asshole.  Punching down has always made you an asshole, people are just less willing to put up with it now.

[close]

Exactly. I have tried to follow the "punch UP" rule of thumb in the past several years. On some theoretical level without context, a joke about white suburban church goers might be just as "hateful" as a joke about trans people. But in reality, the former are a completely protected class who have controlled the entirety of the United States government since its formation (don't get into semantics about suburbs here). Meanwhile trans kids have had zero protections and a shit ton of constant hate in their every day lives that we could never imagine. So a joke at their expense is cheap and tasteless.

[close]

Man, I just watched a Chappelle trans joke compilation and that shit was hilarious - I guess I enjoy laughter more than being politically correct. I've heard funny jokes about rape, school shootings, drug overdoses, 9/11, etc. Punching down is fine if the jokes are well written and funny, but I know you disagree on that. And I'm a white dude so I'm sure you'll disregard my opinions immediately, which is fine, I'll stay laughing at funny things because they're funny, not because my soul is full of hate and fear. A good joke is a good joke.

[close]

You don't have to have hate in your heart to enjoy these jokes, but do you not care that marginalized people have to constantly hear hateful things said to them consistently and then on top of that have to deal with a comedian make light of their situation?

I also don't understand why people (not you, necessarily) always say "it's just a joke, don't take it so seriously," but get up in arms when people don't agree.  Why is it so hard to let go of joking about things that people are sensitive about?  Why is it so bad to care about other people?  I do get your perspective though, there is no "right" answer here.

Where are all of these thin skinned trans people that are so sensitive they can't take a joke? I have only seen non trans people galloping around defending them (online, I've barely seen transphobic shit elsewhere, in real life). And it's not bad to care about other people, I just very much doubt that half the people who throw the word "transphobia" around care half as much as they seem to. Online, you have no skin in the game, so it's just as easy to claim moral outrage and superiority as it is to say if I went back in time I would try and fuck my sexy great grandma instead of killing Hitler.

I've spent so much time around people who are champions for other people's rights, and who explained to me why saying or doing certain things are hurtful or ignorant, and I've changed some words and actions I use (if I'm telling a story to a guy about a woman, I will still absolutely use the word "cunt" if the woman was being a nightmare, I don't care). But that's all real life, in person stuff, with people who's opinions I respect.

The internet is people at their absolute worst, and I can sincerely say that I've never changed my behavior based off something some no face, no name person said online. Virtue signaling (not saying that's what you're doing) is just some of the most god awful shit to come out of the web, and it happens on here all the time. Shit, some dude on Real said something "problematic" and some idiot on here said he was gonna stop skating his Ishod board. And I HIGHLY doubt he actually did that, because this is online and you don't have to show proof of anything, you can just claim you did something to get whatever form of "respect" or "clout" or whatever. It's all empty and fake and holds zero gravity. Nobody online truly has to prove anything.

So whatever you're championing, go for it. If you think you can stop people from talking shit to trans people by commenting online, like you're making a difference, sure. But I doubt it will work and I doubt, no matter how well worded or full of examples of the do-gooding you execute in real life (not saying you) your arguments are, that any of you will do anything besides whine online, the least effective and most effortless thing you can do. Gather here and tell each other how great you are, have a ball.

For the record, I buy my beer from a trans lady at the gas station, and I have no plans to ask her what her pronouns are.

[Síota]

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Yeah shit ok then. I can accept if I'm wrong I'm not a huge Chapelle guy so I'm probably not going to watch his special (at least for a little while) so I'll take your word for it.
It's still not really what comedy was about in the past (protecting those "lower" and punching those "higher") it was mostly observations and story telling. But I guess times gotta change.

[close]

It kind of has though.  Even now, you can make a joke about whatever you want, just like back then.  It might be funny, it might not.  But if you’re an asshole for making the joke, people are going to call you out on it, and more people are willing to call out assholes than before because communication has gotten better and they realize they’re not the only ones that think the comic is an asshole.

The whole “punching up” or “punching down” thing is just a good shorthand for how likely people are to think you’re an asshole and criticize you.  If you punch up and you’re a colossal asshole about it, people might still call you out for being an asshole.

[close]

Yeah I agree with all that.
Not really what I meant tho. I meant more it seems like people think "good" comedy HAS to punch up and stand for something. As if comedy can't exist if it's not trying to take a shot at someone.

I very much agree if you're an asshole you can get called out.

[close]

I think it's more of a good metric of what comedy will age well as social mores and attitudes continue to evolve

[close]

I tend to think everyones sense of humor changes at some point, in the 90s a lot of our high school jokes wouldn't even fly in todays climate unless you're at some wealthy conservative private school. 

Good comedy is like good art, it wont make sense if you dont understand the time periods the art was made.  But I think we can all agree when someone is just trolling and being a clout goblin

[close]

Even lyrics of some 90's music doesn't fly these days.

[close]

2000s tons of rap still saying faggot etc.

Even mainstream stuff like Dire Straits and The Pogues let alone punk/rap etc. Actually the two above might have been 80's, but "Fairy tale of New York" and "money for nothing" were always on the radio. I don't think Shane McGowan or Mark Knopfler are in any means homophobic. Heaps of NWA is the same, same  with the Smut Pedlars (the punk version). Things changed for the better...

[Eric Dolphy]

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Late to the party here, but I'm shocked a mascot for toxic masculinity, who probably literally takes hormones to change his appearance, is hating on a trans person...

In other news the body builder that runs the nutrition shop near me, and makes most of his money selling steroids to cops, has been parking in the handicap spot in his new penis extender truck for the past two weeks and the 15 year old inside of me wants to vandalize it so bad.

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I'm bummed on HRs homophobic history but that's cause I've always been a jellohead myself

[close]

I like Jello as a singer and I’m not big on Greer, but Jello sucks with how he fucked over the rest of the band.

[close]

Yeah unfortunately when you become a small business owner, you do small business owner stuff aka fucking over other people

[close]

What actually happened? I was told the band wanted to sell the rights to holiday in Cambodia to Levi's Jeans for an ad, and Jello said fuck no so the split

[close]

Jello had claimed that, but he basically tried to steal royalties from the other members.

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wait wait wait, Dave Chappelle's transgender jokes were transphobic?? I didn't hear any hate or fear in those jokes, just funny material.

Are jokes involving trans people automatically persecution? I can see how Weck's joke was pretty mean spirited, but is there a line behind which a joke can be made? Can these people be joked about or are they off limits entirely for the next 50 years?

[close]

Phobia means “fear, intolerance, or aversion”.  Saying that a trans woman is not a woman or a trans man is not a man shows a clear intolerance and aversion to trans people.

Jokes involving trans people are fine.  Jokes made at their expense or trying to invalidate who they are are not ok and make you an asshole.  Punching down has always made you an asshole, people are just less willing to put up with it now.

[close]

Exactly. I have tried to follow the "punch UP" rule of thumb in the past several years. On some theoretical level without context, a joke about white suburban church goers might be just as "hateful" as a joke about trans people. But in reality, the former are a completely protected class who have controlled the entirety of the United States government since its formation (don't get into semantics about suburbs here). Meanwhile trans kids have had zero protections and a shit ton of constant hate in their every day lives that we could never imagine. So a joke at their expense is cheap and tasteless.

[close]

Man, I just watched a Chappelle trans joke compilation and that shit was hilarious - I guess I enjoy laughter more than being politically correct. I've heard funny jokes about rape, school shootings, drug overdoses, 9/11, etc. Punching down is fine if the jokes are well written and funny, but I know you disagree on that. And I'm a white dude so I'm sure you'll disregard my opinions immediately, which is fine, I'll stay laughing at funny things because they're funny, not because my soul is full of hate and fear. A good joke is a good joke.

[close]

You don't have to have hate in your heart to enjoy these jokes, but do you not care that marginalized people have to constantly hear hateful things said to them consistently and then on top of that have to deal with a comedian make light of their situation?

I also don't understand why people (not you, necessarily) always say "it's just a joke, don't take it so seriously," but get up in arms when people don't agree.  Why is it so hard to let go of joking about things that people are sensitive about?  Why is it so bad to care about other people?  I do get your perspective though, there is no "right" answer here.

[close]

Where are all of these thin skinned trans people that are so sensitive they can't take a joke? I have only seen non trans people galloping around defending them (online, I've barely seen transphobic shit elsewhere, in real life). And it's not bad to care about other people, I just very much doubt that half the people who throw the word "transphobia" around care half as much as they seem to. Online, you have no skin in the game, so it's just as easy to claim moral outrage and superiority as it is to say if I went back in time I would try and fuck my sexy great grandma instead of killing Hitler.

I've spent so much time around people who are champions for other people's rights, and who explained to me why saying or doing certain things are hurtful or ignorant, and I've changed some words and actions I use (if I'm telling a story to a guy about a woman, I will still absolutely use the word "cunt" if the woman was being a nightmare, I don't care). But that's all real life, in person stuff, with people who's opinions I respect.

The internet is people at their absolute worst, and I can sincerely say that I've never changed my behavior based off something some no face, no name person said online. Virtue signaling (not saying that's what you're doing) is just some of the most god awful shit to come out of the web, and it happens on here all the time. Shit, some dude on Real said something "problematic" and some idiot on here said he was gonna stop skating his Ishod board. And I HIGHLY doubt he actually did that, because this is online and you don't have to show proof of anything, you can just claim you did something to get whatever form of "respect" or "clout" or whatever. It's all empty and fake and holds zero gravity. Nobody online truly has to prove anything.

So whatever you're championing, go for it. If you think you can stop people from talking shit to trans people by commenting online, like you're making a difference, sure. But I doubt it will work and I doubt, no matter how well worded or full of examples of the do-gooding you execute in real life (not saying you) your arguments are, that any of you will do anything besides whine online, the least effective and most effortless thing you can do. Gather here and tell each other how great you are, have a ball.

For the record, I buy my beer from a trans lady at the gas station, and I have no plans to ask her what her pronouns are.

Tell us more about your sexy great grandma

[frontfootimpossible]

With the amount of bullying trans people get, I don't think they give a shit about what dudes like weckingball have to say about them.

When will this guy's suburban tough guy 15 minutes of fame end? If you don't like what he's saying just tune out. People like him love being the bad guy, but can't stand to be ignored.

[Freelancevagrant]

Where are all of these thin skinned trans people that are so sensitive they can't take a joke? I have only seen non trans people galloping around defending them (online, I've barely seen transphobic shit elsewhere, in real life). And it's not bad to care about other people, I just very much doubt that half the people who throw the word "transphobia" around care half as much as they seem to. Online, you have no skin in the game, so it's just as easy to claim moral outrage and superiority as it is to say if I went back in time I would try and fuck my sexy great grandma instead of killing Hitler.

I've spent so much time around people who are champions for other people's rights, and who explained to me why saying or doing certain things are hurtful or ignorant, and I've changed some words and actions I use (if I'm telling a story to a guy about a woman, I will still absolutely use the word "cunt" if the woman was being a nightmare, I don't care). But that's all real life, in person stuff, with people who's opinions I respect.

The internet is people at their absolute worst, and I can sincerely say that I've never changed my behavior based off something some no face, no name person said online. Virtue signaling (not saying that's what you're doing) is just some of the most god awful shit to come out of the web, and it happens on here all the time. Shit, some dude on Real said something "problematic" and some idiot on here said he was gonna stop skating his Ishod board. And I HIGHLY doubt he actually did that, because this is online and you don't have to show proof of anything, you can just claim you did something to get whatever form of "respect" or "clout" or whatever. It's all empty and fake and holds zero gravity. Nobody online truly has to prove anything.

So whatever you're championing, go for it. If you think you can stop people from talking shit to trans people by commenting online, like you're making a difference, sure. But I doubt it will work and I doubt, no matter how well worded or full of examples of the do-gooding you execute in real life (not saying you) your arguments are, that any of you will do anything besides whine online, the least effective and most effortless thing you can do. Gather here and tell each other how great you are, have a ball.

For the record, I buy my beer from a trans lady at the gas station, and I have no plans to ask her what her pronouns are.

Let’s take a look at this.

Maybe you haven’t witnessed it in real life. But I doubt that, I am willing to bet you’re just too god damn daft to understand or notice what it is.

Maybe the opinions of the people you respect are equally fucking oblivious. Chances are they’re your two best friends, Kyle and Tyler, who are also straight white men who are fucking clueless.

Just because you don’t see transphobia doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. It does, you just don’t give a shit about it because it doesn’t affect you.
 
Here’s some quick stats for you to look over that will hopefully enlighten you a little bit as to why this shit isn’t a joke. Btw there are literally hundreds more statistics and surveys I could use and cite if this this isn’t enough.

A U.S. survey of 402 older, employed, high-income transgender people found that 60% reported violence or harassment because of their gender identity. 56% had been harassed or verbally abused, 30% had been assaulted, 17% had had objects thrown at them, 14% had been robbed and 8% had experienced what they characterized as an unjustified arrest

Source: The Lives of Transgender People. New York: Columbia University Press.

Over 80% of transgender teens report feeling unsafe in a school environment, more than 40% report having been physically abused, and over 65% report being bullied online or via social media

Source: http://nobullying.com/transgender-bullying/

During the year prior to the 2015 U.S. survey, 46% of respondents had been verbally harassed and 9% had been physically attacked for being transgender. 10% had been sexually assaulted during the previous year, and 47% had been sexually assaulted at some point in their life.

Source: U.S. Transgender Survey. Washington: National Center for Transgender Equality.

[Painted Baby]

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Yeah shit ok then. I can accept if I'm wrong I'm not a huge Chapelle guy so I'm probably not going to watch his special (at least for a little while) so I'll take your word for it.
It's still not really what comedy was about in the past (protecting those "lower" and punching those "higher") it was mostly observations and story telling. But I guess times gotta change.

[close]

It kind of has though.  Even now, you can make a joke about whatever you want, just like back then.  It might be funny, it might not.  But if you’re an asshole for making the joke, people are going to call you out on it, and more people are willing to call out assholes than before because communication has gotten better and they realize they’re not the only ones that think the comic is an asshole.

The whole “punching up” or “punching down” thing is just a good shorthand for how likely people are to think you’re an asshole and criticize you.  If you punch up and you’re a colossal asshole about it, people might still call you out for being an asshole.

[close]

Yeah I agree with all that.
Not really what I meant tho. I meant more it seems like people think "good" comedy HAS to punch up and stand for something. As if comedy can't exist if it's not trying to take a shot at someone.

I very much agree if you're an asshole you can get called out.

[close]

It's very hard to punch down and have it not make you look like an asshole, and thus hard to make "good".  Usually it has to have some sort of irony to it, and still some aspect that punches up, usually at the comic themselves. Louis C.K., for all his horribleness, was particularly good at this.

Jokes that strictly punch down are essentially just bullying, which doesn't make for good comedy.

In particular, I think Louis' inability to pull this trick post Me Too is what sunk his image rehab tour. The leaked show was mostly punching down at Zoomers and the Parkland shooting survivors specifically and he just came off as an asshole becuase there was no savage introspective turn.

[Abyss1]

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Yeah shit ok then. I can accept if I'm wrong I'm not a huge Chapelle guy so I'm probably not going to watch his special (at least for a little while) so I'll take your word for it.
It's still not really what comedy was about in the past (protecting those "lower" and punching those "higher") it was mostly observations and story telling. But I guess times gotta change.

[close]

It kind of has though.  Even now, you can make a joke about whatever you want, just like back then.  It might be funny, it might not.  But if you’re an asshole for making the joke, people are going to call you out on it, and more people are willing to call out assholes than before because communication has gotten better and they realize they’re not the only ones that think the comic is an asshole.

The whole “punching up” or “punching down” thing is just a good shorthand for how likely people are to think you’re an asshole and criticize you.  If you punch up and you’re a colossal asshole about it, people might still call you out for being an asshole.

[close]

Yeah I agree with all that.
Not really what I meant tho. I meant more it seems like people think "good" comedy HAS to punch up and stand for something. As if comedy can't exist if it's not trying to take a shot at someone.

I very much agree if you're an asshole you can get called out.

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I think it's more of a good metric of what comedy will age well as social mores and attitudes continue to evolve

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I tend to think everyones sense of humor changes at some point, in the 90s a lot of our high school jokes wouldn't even fly in todays climate unless you're at some wealthy conservative private school. 

Good comedy is like good art, it wont make sense if you dont understand the time periods the art was made.  But I think we can all agree when someone is just trolling and being a clout goblin

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Even lyrics of some 90's music doesn't fly these days.

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2000s tons of rap still saying faggot etc.

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Even mainstream stuff like Dire Straits and The Pogues let alone punk/rap etc. Actually the two above might have been 80's, but "Fairy tale of New York" and "money for nothing" were always on the radio. I don't think Shane McGowan or Mark Knopfler are in any means homophobic. Heaps of NWA is the same, same  with the Smut Pedlars (the punk version). Things changed for the better...

Yea I have a lot of underground hip hop / battle style rap from 90-00s, and a lot of homophobic shit doesnt sit well with me today.  I only listen to instrumentals now and days, most hip hop lyric these days makes me cringe

[blurst_of_times]

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Late to the party here, but I'm shocked a mascot for toxic masculinity, who probably literally takes hormones to change his appearance, is hating on a trans person...

In other news the body builder that runs the nutrition shop near me, and makes most of his money selling steroids to cops, has been parking in the handicap spot in his new penis extender truck for the past two weeks and the 15 year old inside of me wants to vandalize it so bad.

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I'm bummed on HRs homophobic history but that's cause I've always been a jellohead myself

[close]

I like Jello as a singer and I’m not big on Greer, but Jello sucks with how he fucked over the rest of the band.

[close]

Yeah unfortunately when you become a small business owner, you do small business owner stuff aka fucking over other people

[close]

What actually happened? I was told the band wanted to sell the rights to holiday in Cambodia to Levi's Jeans for an ad, and Jello said fuck no so the split

[close]

Jello had claimed that, but he basically tried to steal royalties from the other members.

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wait wait wait, Dave Chappelle's transgender jokes were transphobic?? I didn't hear any hate or fear in those jokes, just funny material.

Are jokes involving trans people automatically persecution? I can see how Weck's joke was pretty mean spirited, but is there a line behind which a joke can be made? Can these people be joked about or are they off limits entirely for the next 50 years?

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Phobia means “fear, intolerance, or aversion”.  Saying that a trans woman is not a woman or a trans man is not a man shows a clear intolerance and aversion to trans people.

Jokes involving trans people are fine.  Jokes made at their expense or trying to invalidate who they are are not ok and make you an asshole.  Punching down has always made you an asshole, people are just less willing to put up with it now.

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Exactly. I have tried to follow the "punch UP" rule of thumb in the past several years. On some theoretical level without context, a joke about white suburban church goers might be just as "hateful" as a joke about trans people. But in reality, the former are a completely protected class who have controlled the entirety of the United States government since its formation (don't get into semantics about suburbs here). Meanwhile trans kids have had zero protections and a shit ton of constant hate in their every day lives that we could never imagine. So a joke at their expense is cheap and tasteless.

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Man, I just watched a Chappelle trans joke compilation and that shit was hilarious - I guess I enjoy laughter more than being politically correct. I've heard funny jokes about rape, school shootings, drug overdoses, 9/11, etc. Punching down is fine if the jokes are well written and funny, but I know you disagree on that. And I'm a white dude so I'm sure you'll disregard my opinions immediately, which is fine, I'll stay laughing at funny things because they're funny, not because my soul is full of hate and fear. A good joke is a good joke.

[close]

You don't have to have hate in your heart to enjoy these jokes, but do you not care that marginalized people have to constantly hear hateful things said to them consistently and then on top of that have to deal with a comedian make light of their situation?

I also don't understand why people (not you, necessarily) always say "it's just a joke, don't take it so seriously," but get up in arms when people don't agree.  Why is it so hard to let go of joking about things that people are sensitive about?  Why is it so bad to care about other people?  I do get your perspective though, there is no "right" answer here.

[close]

Where are all of these thin skinned trans people that are so sensitive they can't take a joke? I have only seen non trans people galloping around defending them (online, I've barely seen transphobic shit elsewhere, in real life). And it's not bad to care about other people, I just very much doubt that half the people who throw the word "transphobia" around care half as much as they seem to. Online, you have no skin in the game, so it's just as easy to claim moral outrage and superiority as it is to say if I went back in time I would try and fuck my sexy great grandma instead of killing Hitler.

I've spent so much time around people who are champions for other people's rights, and who explained to me why saying or doing certain things are hurtful or ignorant, and I've changed some words and actions I use (if I'm telling a story to a guy about a woman, I will still absolutely use the word "cunt" if the woman was being a nightmare, I don't care). But that's all real life, in person stuff, with people who's opinions I respect.

The internet is people at their absolute worst, and I can sincerely say that I've never changed my behavior based off something some no face, no name person said online. Virtue signaling (not saying that's what you're doing) is just some of the most god awful shit to come out of the web, and it happens on here all the time. Shit, some dude on Real said something "problematic" and some idiot on here said he was gonna stop skating his Ishod board. And I HIGHLY doubt he actually did that, because this is online and you don't have to show proof of anything, you can just claim you did something to get whatever form of "respect" or "clout" or whatever. It's all empty and fake and holds zero gravity. Nobody online truly has to prove anything.

So whatever you're championing, go for it. If you think you can stop people from talking shit to trans people by commenting online, like you're making a difference, sure. But I doubt it will work and I doubt, no matter how well worded or full of examples of the do-gooding you execute in real life (not saying you) your arguments are, that any of you will do anything besides whine online, the least effective and most effortless thing you can do. Gather here and tell each other how great you are, have a ball.

For the record, I buy my beer from a trans lady at the gas station, and I have no plans to ask her what her pronouns are.

One is my trans sister. She thinks Dave Chappelle's transphobic humor is shitty because it trivializes the experience of trans people. I'd be willing to bet a lot of other trans folks feel the same way. As someone said earlier, just because you don't see the harm of transphobic humor, that doesn't mean it isn't real.

[Alan]

If "virtue signaling" makes you more upset than the ignorant shit people are speaking out against, you got yourself a problem. Dudes here aren't hypocritical liberal politicians faking woke, they are trying to influence skateboarding in a positive way, even if that's just right here on our lil chunk of the internet.

Well put.

[pro club blanks]

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Probably because it's just as easy to get your shit together and deal with a joke. Probably because other people make it their life goal to state that they don't care about you. By the way, Weck's joke is specifically awful for targeting real people and clearly denying the respect they should have, like textbook transphobia. He only gets away with it cause he's Weck and you expect him to be regular looking for attention anyways.

[close]

Calling out a joke for being transphobic isn't "not dealing with a joke".  People are dealing with the joke just fine.  They're also calling out an asshole for being an asshole.

[close]

I watch a shit ton of stand up comedy and nothing about what weck did was anything close to being a joke, his clip was punching down and hes purposely being a heel to get attention, its so fucking whack how people troll nowadays

[close]

Stay on target.
The problem isn't the actual joke it's that it's transphobic.

 its actually a solid joke that uses some tried and tested comedy techniques. It's classic dad/Xmas cracker shitty wordplay. The goal isn't to make the audience laugh at how clever it is but rather how dumb it is. It also has a suprise element because you wouldn't expect an actual adult to be that ignorant in 2021.

Also people really need to get off this whole punching up/down thing. It's never been a part of comedy.

Anyway just incase it's not clear I'm very much on the fuck weck side. -from another comedy expert.

Its ALWAYS been a part of comedy

Its part of what makes conservative comedians/pundits like ann coulter or whatever so incredibly unfunny

[DaleSr]

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Probably because it's just as easy to get your shit together and deal with a joke. Probably because other people make it their life goal to state that they don't care about you. By the way, Weck's joke is specifically awful for targeting real people and clearly denying the respect they should have, like textbook transphobia. He only gets away with it cause he's Weck and you expect him to be regular looking for attention anyways.

[close]

Calling out a joke for being transphobic isn't "not dealing with a joke".  People are dealing with the joke just fine.  They're also calling out an asshole for being an asshole.

[close]

I watch a shit ton of stand up comedy and nothing about what weck did was anything close to being a joke, his clip was punching down and hes purposely being a heel to get attention, its so fucking whack how people troll nowadays

[close]

Stay on target.
The problem isn't the actual joke it's that it's transphobic.

 its actually a solid joke that uses some tried and tested comedy techniques. It's classic dad/Xmas cracker shitty wordplay. The goal isn't to make the audience laugh at how clever it is but rather how dumb it is. It also has a suprise element because you wouldn't expect an actual adult to be that ignorant in 2021.

Also people really need to get off this whole punching up/down thing. It's never been a part of comedy.

Anyway just incase it's not clear I'm very much on the fuck weck side. -from another comedy expert.

[close]

Its ALWAYS been a part of comedy

Its part of what makes conservative comedians/pundits like ann coulter or whatever so incredibly unfunny

They're funny just unintentionally

[Blueabyssofthisss]

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galloping I would try and fuck my sexy great grandma instead of killing Hitler.

[close]

[Abyss1]

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Probably because it's just as easy to get your shit together and deal with a joke. Probably because other people make it their life goal to state that they don't care about you. By the way, Weck's joke is specifically awful for targeting real people and clearly denying the respect they should have, like textbook transphobia. He only gets away with it cause he's Weck and you expect him to be regular looking for attention anyways.

[close]

Calling out a joke for being transphobic isn't "not dealing with a joke".  People are dealing with the joke just fine.  They're also calling out an asshole for being an asshole.

[close]

I watch a shit ton of stand up comedy and nothing about what weck did was anything close to being a joke, his clip was punching down and hes purposely being a heel to get attention, its so fucking whack how people troll nowadays

[close]

Stay on target.
The problem isn't the actual joke it's that it's transphobic.

 its actually a solid joke that uses some tried and tested comedy techniques. It's classic dad/Xmas cracker shitty wordplay. The goal isn't to make the audience laugh at how clever it is but rather how dumb it is. It also has a suprise element because you wouldn't expect an actual adult to be that ignorant in 2021.

Also people really need to get off this whole punching up/down thing. It's never been a part of comedy.

Anyway just incase it's not clear I'm very much on the fuck weck side. -from another comedy expert.

[close]

Its ALWAYS been a part of comedy

Its part of what makes conservative comedians/pundits like ann coulter or whatever so incredibly unfunny

worst part of it is conservatives like her arent trying to be funny, just intentionally racist/homophobic/transphobic.

Bill Maher gets away with shit because he is an actual touring stand up comedian, most of his jokes suck now too

[radcunt]

This ain’t up for discussion, dudes just a dumb, needy, ignorant, narcissistic fuckwit.

[radcunt]

A deadset shitcunt

[Loki700]

I am a white middle class boy with an unwashed ass who has never experienced any sort of discrimination.  Here is my opinion nobody asked for on why speaking out against hate speech is stupid and wrong.  I’m going to willfully ignore that it’s possible to be an activist in real life while also speaking against this sort of thing on the internet.

I haven’t noticed transphobia in real life because I’m a clueless twat and only pay attention to what affects me and my white body.  I want to be free to be a colossal asshole to groups of people I don’t like without any repercussions.

If I went back in time I would try and fuck my sexy great grandma instead of killing Hitler.

For the record, I’m not going to ask the lady at the gas station something no one told me to ask her anyway, but telling you about it makes me feel like a badass.

This isn’t the hot take you think it is man.

[mushroom slice]

I like this song

[d0rk]

TJ and Paul Hart both removed there comments.
But we won’t forget.

What'd they post?