Author Topic: The Indy Thread  (Read 59514 times)

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IpathCats

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #1230 on: March 12, 2023, 12:36:53 PM »
I donít know if this is the correct thread, but it would seem like the place ask, since some of you are clearly comfortable with frankentrucking.

Iím trying to swap plates/kingpins on my 139 lows with cast, and my 159 forged hollows. Best of both worlds Iíd think. Cast hollow for 159s and forged plate on the lows, would take them even lower.

Problem is Iím not very good at removing kingpins. How do I do it without fucking them up?
Iíve gotten as far as pushing the low kingpins out, but it did cost me their nuts.



If I want to skate tonight Iíll need at least a couple nuts holding one of the sets together.


I have no good technique for removing kingpins. I've only ever done it twice, it took a lot of force and effort and the baseplates didn't hold the new pins well, effectively rendering them useless.
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manysnakes

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #1231 on: March 12, 2023, 12:56:14 PM »
I donít know if this is the correct thread, but it would seem like the place ask, since some of you are clearly comfortable with frankentrucking.

Iím trying to swap plates/kingpins on my 139 lows with cast, and my 159 forged hollows. Best of both worlds Iíd think. Cast hollow for 159s and forged plate on the lows, would take them even lower.

Problem is Iím not very good at removing kingpins. How do I do it without fucking them up?
Iíve gotten as far as pushing the low kingpins out, but it did cost me their nuts.



If I want to skate tonight Iíll need at least a couple nuts holding one of the sets together.


When I've removed the kingpins from my trucks, I put them on my bench vise, with the clamps open so that I can hammer the kingpin between them. I think I clamped the trucks in the vise once and it marred the plate, so the next time I set it on top of the vise and clamped the plate with a trigger clamp to keep it from popping off.

But yeah, basically you need something hard, preferably metal (a vise is also an anvil), with a gap in the middle through which you can drive the kingpin.
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Xen

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #1232 on: March 12, 2023, 02:53:10 PM »
Parking block
Place pin base over rebar hole
Wood or brick to hold the plate
Smack that pin with a hammer

Mbrimson88

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #1233 on: March 12, 2023, 04:27:01 PM »
I donít know if this is the correct thread, but it would seem like the place ask, since some of you are clearly comfortable with frankentrucking.

Iím trying to swap plates/kingpins on my 139 lows with cast, and my 159 forged hollows. Best of both worlds Iíd think. Cast hollow for 159s and forged plate on the lows, would take them even lower.

Problem is Iím not very good at removing kingpins. How do I do it without fucking them up?
Iíve gotten as far as pushing the low kingpins out, but it did cost me their nuts.



If I want to skate tonight Iíll need at least a couple nuts holding one of the sets together.



So to check where you are up to, you are trying to take the lower kingpins out of one set of trucks and put them in the other?


Cast plates are not that difficult to remove kingpins from, but forged plates are a real pain in the ass and almost every forged plate that has had a broken or problematic kingpin has ended up pretty much getting destroyed in the process of removal, both from my own efforts and others when they have tried to take out theirs.

A much better solution is set up the hangers on the baseplates as you want them, then if the kingpin is too tall, just angle grind the tops off the kingpins if you need them lower on the forged plates.


As for getting kingpins back in to trucks, I have often filed or angle grinded down the "teeth" just a bit which makes it way easier to get them in with a hammer / mallet and block.

If you have one of those press type machines, it is very easy and others have just pushed kingpins in or out using them, which people have shown on here in whatever thread too.


That is not to say that it cannot be done and give you exactly what you want, but just a hammer and belting it as hard as you can often ends in things not working at all or breaking baseplates.

I talk too much about skateboards.  Sorry.

Creachteach

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #1234 on: March 13, 2023, 07:13:52 AM »
Expand Quote
I donít know if this is the correct thread, but it would seem like the place ask, since some of you are clearly comfortable with frankentrucking.

Iím trying to swap plates/kingpins on my 139 lows with cast, and my 159 forged hollows. Best of both worlds Iíd think. Cast hollow for 159s and forged plate on the lows, would take them even lower.

Problem is Iím not very good at removing kingpins. How do I do it without fucking them up?
Iíve gotten as far as pushing the low kingpins out, but it did cost me their nuts.



If I want to skate tonight Iíll need at least a couple nuts holding one of the sets together.

[close]


So to check where you are up to, you are trying to take the lower kingpins out of one set of trucks and put them in the other?


Cast plates are not that difficult to remove kingpins from, but forged plates are a real pain in the ass and almost every forged plate that has had a broken or problematic kingpin has ended up pretty much getting destroyed in the process of removal, both from my own efforts and others when they have tried to take out theirs.

A much better solution is set up the hangers on the baseplates as you want them, then if the kingpin is too tall, just angle grind the tops off the kingpins if you need them lower on the forged plates.


As for getting kingpins back in to trucks, I have often filed or angle grinded down the "teeth" just a bit which makes it way easier to get them in with a hammer / mallet and block.

If you have one of those press type machines, it is very easy and others have just pushed kingpins in or out using them, which people have shown on here in whatever thread too.


That is not to say that it cannot be done and give you exactly what you want, but just a hammer and belting it as hard as you can often ends in things not working at all or breaking baseplates.



I was hoping youíd chime in :)
You pretty much know what Iím trying.
But the cast plates in the picture has already had the low kingpins pushed out, and need a longer kingpin to fit my standard size bushings. Itís really just to make my forged hollows into cast hollows. I plan on trying to sell the lows, or setup a 00ís board for shits and giggles with them.

Next up is getting the kingpins out of the forged plates, and then getting all 4 back in the correct trucks.

I screwed the plates to my workbench with woodscrews, and the went to town with a big ass pipe wrench.
My searching online said that using a shop press would be fast and easy, but I donít have access to one atm. Search also said a powered chisel might do the trick, for both dislodging them and reseating them.

Wish me luck.
Im too dumb to figure out how to make this drawing my profile pic.


I also saw Skate Goat at Venice

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #1235 on: March 13, 2023, 07:55:41 AM »
are the hangers interchangeable between all stage 11s? or do only titantium + hollow fit forged baseplate, standard only fits Cast plate due to different geomtery?
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backinaction

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #1236 on: March 13, 2023, 08:19:02 AM »
are the hangers interchangeable between all stage 11s? or do only titantium + hollow fit forged baseplate, standard only fits Cast plate due to different geomtery?

All stage 11s can swap baseplates.  The forged baseplate is 1.5mm thinner, all from the boardside.   Geometry is the same.

jimgrude

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #1237 on: March 13, 2023, 04:22:29 PM »
Expand Quote
are the hangers interchangeable between all stage 11s? or do only titantium + hollow fit forged baseplate, standard only fits Cast plate due to different geomtery?
[close]

All stage 11s can swap baseplates.  The forged baseplate is 1.5mm thinner, all from the boardside.   Geometry is the same.

Yes, they are all interchangeable. However, there is a slight difference in geo between forged and cast, but it's all in the baseplate. Forged plates make your trucks sit ever so slightly further apart, extending the wheelbase. But yeah, hangers are all the same.

Mbrimson88

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #1238 on: March 13, 2023, 08:13:45 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
I donít know if this is the correct thread, but it would seem like the place ask, since some of you are clearly comfortable with frankentrucking.

Iím trying to swap plates/kingpins on my 139 lows with cast, and my 159 forged hollows. Best of both worlds Iíd think. Cast hollow for 159s and forged plate on the lows, would take them even lower.

Problem is Iím not very good at removing kingpins. How do I do it without fucking them up?
Iíve gotten as far as pushing the low kingpins out, but it did cost me their nuts.



If I want to skate tonight Iíll need at least a couple nuts holding one of the sets together.

[close]


So to check where you are up to, you are trying to take the lower kingpins out of one set of trucks and put them in the other?


Cast plates are not that difficult to remove kingpins from, but forged plates are a real pain in the ass and almost every forged plate that has had a broken or problematic kingpin has ended up pretty much getting destroyed in the process of removal, both from my own efforts and others when they have tried to take out theirs.

A much better solution is set up the hangers on the baseplates as you want them, then if the kingpin is too tall, just angle grind the tops off the kingpins if you need them lower on the forged plates.


As for getting kingpins back in to trucks, I have often filed or angle grinded down the "teeth" just a bit which makes it way easier to get them in with a hammer / mallet and block.

If you have one of those press type machines, it is very easy and others have just pushed kingpins in or out using them, which people have shown on here in whatever thread too.


That is not to say that it cannot be done and give you exactly what you want, but just a hammer and belting it as hard as you can often ends in things not working at all or breaking baseplates.


[close]

I was hoping youíd chime in :)
You pretty much know what Iím trying.
But the cast plates in the picture has already had the low kingpins pushed out, and need a longer kingpin to fit my standard size bushings. Itís really just to make my forged hollows into cast hollows. I plan on trying to sell the lows, or setup a 00ís board for shits and giggles with them.

Next up is getting the kingpins out of the forged plates, and then getting all 4 back in the correct trucks.

I screwed the plates to my workbench with woodscrews, and the went to town with a big ass pipe wrench.
My searching online said that using a shop press would be fast and easy, but I donít have access to one atm. Search also said a powered chisel might do the trick, for both dislodging them and reseating them.

Wish me luck.


"GOOD LUCK!!!!"

I feel like it would be cheaper / easier in the long run to just buy two regular kingpins and put them in the cast plates and see if the other trucks can get away with that, otherwise I would still be taking those other kingpins down about two mm or so to make them the same height as the low kingpins.

Using lower top bushings can also help with regular hangers on low kingpins, which is how I set up my boards.

I talk too much about skateboards.  Sorry.

reckless toboggan

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #1239 on: March 16, 2023, 10:09:59 AM »
Anybody know the bushing thicknesses/measurements for Indy Stage 7s?

I searched to the end of the internet and got nothing.

Mbrimson88

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #1240 on: March 16, 2023, 06:24:21 PM »
Anybody know the bushing thicknesses/measurements for Indy Stage 7s?

I searched to the end of the internet and got nothing.



Bushing height measurement info

On some of the trucks I have, they are about the same as current bushings, the tops may be a hair taller.

They were the conical shaped bushings too, not the cylinder, unless the set I have had them swapped out.

I think I have a single new one here somewhere that didn't look like it had been set up, so that might be the best bet for the size, rather than trying to check with well used bushings which would have compressed.


Roughly this, because some bushings seem to have compressed over the years from use or just having the truck tightened down a bit more than others:


Stage 7 and 8 truck bushings (maybe Stage 5 and 6 too)

11 to 13 mm top conical
13 to 14 mm bottom conical


Stage 9 truck bushings (Stage 10 same with cylinder bottoms)

10 to 11 mm top conical
12 to 13 mm bottom conical


Stage 4 reissues

12.5 mm top conical
14-15 mm bottom cylinder



Then from the bushings thread:


https://www.slapmagazine.com/index.php?topic=112631.msg3874036#msg3874036



Indy stock 90a and aftermarket (same in both cylinder and conical) 78a, 88a, 90a, 92a, 94a, 96a
Total  23.5 mm
Top  10.5 mm
Bottom  13 mm *

Indy 215 truck bushings:
Total  24.5 mm
Top  11.5 mm
Bottom  13 mm

Then Indy low head bushings 92a
Total  21 mm
Top  8 mm
Bottom  13 mm


*  Some of the Indy aftermarket bushings, especially the black cylinder were taller 14 mm bottoms


« Last Edit: March 22, 2023, 06:38:23 PM by Mbrimson88 »
I talk too much about skateboards.  Sorry.

Mbrimson88

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #1241 on: March 16, 2023, 06:30:14 PM »
Anybody know the bushing thicknesses/measurements for Indy Stage 7s?

I searched to the end of the internet and got nothing.


Also to note, almost all of the trucks I have from those days are either too stiff in the bushings, or the bushings feel a little too tall, so even getting the kingpin nut off a brand new set, they were a pain to try to get back on and kingpin clearance was almost zero.

Putting more normal or current aftermarket bushings in, either conical or cylinder versions, make them a bit more reasonable, but I used to cut the tops down a bit just to have the nut down lower to give a little more clearance and a better turn as well.

Of course all that is subjective - down to the individual as to how you prefer to ride your trucks, but with these low head bushings, the trucks from that era work a lot better for me.


I don't have any of the new 215s or the new Stage 4 trucks to compare them to, but the tops are taller in those too, from what people have said.

The older Stage 10 version of the 215s have the conical bushings in the set I have, with the Stage 11 pre change 215s having cylinder, but they appear the same as the normal stock bushings in other size trucks from that period.


I talk too much about skateboards.  Sorry.

funeral_tuxedo

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #1242 on: March 16, 2023, 10:05:59 PM »
Expand Quote
Anybody know the bushing thicknesses/measurements for Indy Stage 7s?

I searched to the end of the internet and got nothing.
[close]


Also to note, almost all of the trucks I have from those days are either too stiff in the bushings, or the bushings feel a little too tall, so even getting the kingpin nut off a brand new set, they were a pain to try to get back on and kingpin clearance was almost zero.

Putting more normal or current aftermarket bushings in, either conical or cylinder versions, make them a bit more reasonable, but I used to cut the tops down a bit just to have the nut down lower to give a little more clearance and a better turn as well.

Of course all that is subjective - down to the individual as to how you prefer to ride your trucks, but with these low head bushings, the trucks from that era work a lot better for me.


I don't have any of the new 215s or the new Stage 4 trucks to compare them to, but the tops are taller in those too, from what people have said.

The older Stage 10 version of the 215s have the conical bushings in the set I have, with the Stage 11 pre change 215s having cylinder, but they appear the same as the normal stock bushings in other size trucks from that period.

Ben Degros tried to ride current conical bushings in a pair of stage 7s and ran into an issue with how they felt heavy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvZkzgOpOQ4
« Last Edit: March 17, 2023, 01:41:36 AM by funeral_tuxedo »

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #1243 on: March 17, 2023, 03:10:15 AM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Anybody know the bushing thicknesses/measurements for Indy Stage 7s?

I searched to the end of the internet and got nothing.
[close]


Also to note, almost all of the trucks I have from those days are either too stiff in the bushings, or the bushings feel a little too tall, so even getting the kingpin nut off a brand new set, they were a pain to try to get back on and kingpin clearance was almost zero.

Putting more normal or current aftermarket bushings in, either conical or cylinder versions, make them a bit more reasonable, but I used to cut the tops down a bit just to have the nut down lower to give a little more clearance and a better turn as well.

Of course all that is subjective - down to the individual as to how you prefer to ride your trucks, but with these low head bushings, the trucks from that era work a lot better for me.


I don't have any of the new 215s or the new Stage 4 trucks to compare them to, but the tops are taller in those too, from what people have said.

The older Stage 10 version of the 215s have the conical bushings in the set I have, with the Stage 11 pre change 215s having cylinder, but they appear the same as the normal stock bushings in other size trucks from that period.
[close]

Ben Degros tried to ride current conical bushings in a pair of stage 7s and ran into an issue with how they felt heavy



That's cool to see some in action and I must have missed that video when it came out, but I have barely watched half of his videos, looking at my history.

The bushings on most of my other well used older trucks are way more compressed than the new ones, but it is interesting that the trucks would feel a lot more like Ventures when the hanger is stood upright more as well.

I would say that any older truck is going to have some issues or feel weird after skating the current model of any brand, including Ventures, so after changing bushings over just to look at it, they seem like they would work well enough, kingpin nut hang up aside.


Thanks for reminding me of that video too.



Edit:

The Stage 8 truck video came up after that - yes another one I hadn't seen, so I watch that as well.

Interesting to see that video too, same issues with the old bushings.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZVg30dQKF8


« Last Edit: March 17, 2023, 03:47:58 AM by Mbrimson88 »
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reckless toboggan

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #1244 on: March 17, 2023, 08:40:18 AM »
Thanks for the info.

@funeral_tuxedo It actually makes a lot of sense that the boardside bushings on a skated Stage 7 would be pretty compressed if you tried to measure them today.

@Mbrimson88 Yup, you're correct: Stage 7 original bushing were conical top and bottom.

As far as the streetside bushing, I tried adding a flat Bones washer to get the effect of a slightly taller bushing there.

It didnt really change the geometry. AFAICT only the boardside bushing actually changes geometry, whereas, streetside bushing and boardside bushings together change the response.

So I guess getting them both right will give the geo and response that Indy intended the Stage 7 to have.

I emailed NHS to see if they have original Stage 7 bushing specs, but no response so far. I'll update if they reply.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2023, 10:11:54 AM by reckless toboggan »

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #1245 on: March 17, 2023, 10:08:19 AM »
Anyone else with Stage 4s find the pivot cups to be a hell of a lot more squeaky than other trucks, including Stage 11s? Maybe it's just me or I have the kingpin nut down a little too much, but it seems like these trucks squeak way more than others.

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #1246 on: March 17, 2023, 11:54:35 AM »
Anyone else with Stage 4s find the pivot cups to be a hell of a lot more squeaky than other trucks, including Stage 11s? Maybe it's just me or I have the kingpin nut down a little too much, but it seems like these trucks squeak way more than others.

I agree and they seems exceptionally hard with the already hardened up broken in bushings.   I changed them with a riptide pivot cup and it is a night and day difference on how it turns as well as no more loud squeaking. The firmed up bushings donít feel as firm as well.  I skate aces and Indyís and have currently been on some AF1ís 60ís that are nearly axled. I was still partial to my Aceís up until the pivot cup change.  I imagine the ace ones will work too as a cheaper option of similar quality.  I love my AF1ís, but the sound and feel of the Indy grind is still hard to compete with.   Nevertheless I will still continue riding both brands, but these 151 stage 4ís with the upgraded pivot cup sure are nice and the extra height gives you a slightly deeper turn.   

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #1247 on: March 17, 2023, 04:13:15 PM »
Expand Quote
Anyone else with Stage 4s find the pivot cups to be a hell of a lot more squeaky than other trucks, including Stage 11s? Maybe it's just me or I have the kingpin nut down a little too much, but it seems like these trucks squeak way more than others.
[close]

I agree and they seems exceptionally hard with the already hardened up broken in bushings.   I changed them with a riptide pivot cup and it is a night and day difference on how it turns as well as no more loud squeaking. The firmed up bushings donít feel as firm as well.  I skate aces and Indyís and have currently been on some AF1ís 60ís that are nearly axled. I was still partial to my Aceís up until the pivot cup change.  I imagine the ace ones will work too as a cheaper option of similar quality.  I love my AF1ís, but the sound and feel of the Indy grind is still hard to compete with.   Nevertheless I will still continue riding both brands, but these 151 stage 4ís with the upgraded pivot cup sure are nice and the extra height gives you a slightly deeper turn.

I replaced the stock ones with Ace AF1 pivot cups today and my experience is the same

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #1248 on: March 17, 2023, 07:06:43 PM »
I like all the stock Indy pivot cups now theyíre insanely hard and indestructible and donít seem to hinder performance as long as you keep íem greased up. My trick as of late is to use a stick of beeswax lip balm on the pivot nub of the hanger and mush it into the pivot cup and then add another layer and assemble everything. I also rub it on the bushings, too.

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #1249 on: March 18, 2023, 01:14:25 AM »
I read the specs about stage 4, so 136 is actually a smaller 139 ? Or does the size stay the same ? (Like thunder which is called 147 actually 139)

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #1250 on: March 18, 2023, 01:45:15 AM »
I read the specs about stage 4, so 136 is actually a smaller 139 ? Or does the size stay the same ? (Like thunder which is called 147 actually 139)
136 has an 8Ē axle like the 139.

146: 8.375Ē
149: 8.5Ē
151: 8.625Ē
159: 8.75Ē
166: 9.0Ē
169: 9.125Ē

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #1251 on: March 18, 2023, 07:45:24 AM »
Reynolds had a story skating stage 4's where he swapped to black hard bushings and grinded down the kingpin.

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #1252 on: March 18, 2023, 07:47:48 AM »
Reynolds had a story skating stage 4's where he swapped to black hard bushings and grinded down the kingpin.

Itís a hard post.

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #1253 on: March 18, 2023, 08:26:39 AM »
Reynolds had a story skating stage 4's where he swapped to black hard bushings and grinded down the kingpin.

Interesting. Iím finally getting to ride my stage 4ís today, but I usually rock red Doh dohís in Ace trucks which are 95a. So (longwinded as to say) I am curious about the black bushing swap, and will pick up a set incase the stock reds are too soft for me.

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #1254 on: March 18, 2023, 09:03:43 PM »
Thanks for the info.

@funeral_tuxedo It actually makes a lot of sense that the boardside bushings on a skated Stage 7 would be pretty compressed if you tried to measure them today.

@Mbrimson88 Yup, you're correct: Stage 7 original bushing were conical top and bottom.

As far as the streetside bushing, I tried adding a flat Bones washer to get the effect of a slightly taller bushing there.

It didnt really change the geometry. AFAICT only the boardside bushing actually changes geometry, whereas, streetside bushing and boardside bushings together change the response.

So I guess getting them both right will give the geo and response that Indy intended the Stage 7 to have.

I emailed NHS to see if they have original Stage 7 bushing specs, but no response so far. I'll update if they reply.



I found another box of old trucks, with a few of what are still brand new sets, some with quite taller bushings, so updated the previous post back up the page some with these changes:



Roughly this, because some bushings seem to have compressed over the years from use or just having the truck tightened down a bit more than others:


Stage 7 and 8 truck bushings (maybe Stage 5 and 6 too)

11 to 13 mm top conical

13 to 14 mm bottom conical


I talk too much about skateboards.  Sorry.

modern life is war

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #1255 on: March 19, 2023, 08:41:16 AM »
Recently switched from bones medium to bones hard bushings on my stage 11s. Had to go no washers, too tight otherwise and right now I've got the kingpin nut only just on there - there are no threads coming through the top. Feels so much better though, I feel faster with these harder bushings

LebowskisRug

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #1256 on: March 19, 2023, 02:46:35 PM »
At 165lbs I find every increase in hardness with Indy stock bushings is 1 less thread showing. Not a hard rule, but yellow to blue and blue to black did that for me. Ultimately I'd rather ride blues slightly past flush than black flush so the kingpin nut catches on less. Cranking the yellows and grinding the kingpin is too much precompression on the bushings

Mulldrifter

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #1257 on: March 19, 2023, 02:51:42 PM »
someone has an idea when stage 4 will be available in europe ?

Paco Supreme

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #1258 on: March 19, 2023, 03:32:24 PM »
someone has an idea when stage 4 will be available in europe ?
[/quote

Iíve seen them listed in the UK already so surely not must be soon

goodatmeth

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #1259 on: March 19, 2023, 04:12:19 PM »
someone has an idea when stage 4 will be available in europe ?

They've been in europe since skateshop day. freedomskateshop.at has them