Tik Tok Ban

[mj23]

setting aside all the debates here: look into the actual proposals to regulate tiktok. they have a bunch of additional material thats basically designed to enable censorship of other social media in the future. tiktok is just a convenient boogeyman. the real goal is a deeper level of control. cool stuff!

[manysnakes]

setting aside all the debates here: look into the actual proposals to regulate tiktok. they have a bunch of additional material thats basically designed to enable censorship of other social media in the future. tiktok is just a convenient boogeyman. the real goal is a deeper level of control. cool stuff!

When has that ever happened?!

[newguy]

I’d be so embarrassed if I was one of those nerds on reddit spamming that the chinese government prosecutes people for going on youtube with no proof and then this happens lmfao

Also starting to feel like VPN’s aren’t that useful…

[manysnakes]

Also starting to feel like VPN’s aren’t that useful…

VPNs can be useful if you want your traffic to appear as though it's originating from another region in order to circumvent restrictions, but "anonymizing" VPNs are a scam.

[newguy]

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Also starting to feel like VPN’s aren’t that useful…

[close]

VPNs can be useful if you want your traffic to appear as though it's originating from another region in order to circumvent restrictions, but "anonymizing" VPNs are a scam.

VPN ads feel shady as fuck now, they really seem to sell this idea of complete anonymity to average joes like me, I dont even bother because if my country’s intelligence service wants to fuck my shit up they will.

[manysnakes]

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Also starting to feel like VPN’s aren’t that useful…

[close]

VPNs can be useful if you want your traffic to appear as though it's originating from another region in order to circumvent restrictions, but "anonymizing" VPNs are a scam.

[close]

VPN ads feel shady as fuck now, they really seem to sell this idea of complete anonymity to average joes like me, I dont even bother because if my country’s intelligence service wants to fuck my shit up they will.

It has been obvious since the feds took down the Silk Road that there's absolutely no such thing as anonymous web traffic.

[Abyss1]

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Also starting to feel like VPN’s aren’t that useful…

[close]

VPNs can be useful if you want your traffic to appear as though it's originating from another region in order to circumvent restrictions, but "anonymizing" VPNs are a scam.

[close]

VPN ads feel shady as fuck now, they really seem to sell this idea of complete anonymity to average joes like me, I dont even bother because if my country’s intelligence service wants to fuck my shit up they will.

[close]

It has been obvious since the feds took down the Silk Road that there's absolutely no such thing as anonymous web traffic.

been that way since external modems...you can always trace a phone line, depending on how good a hacker you are you can probably just keep bouncing the trace

[SneakySecrets]

I think no one in this thread, including me, actually knows what the fuck we’re talking about because we’re all so thoroughly inundated with propaganda from one side or the other and the whole thing is so muddled that we’re just basically guessing at the innerworkings of this fucking thing. 

None of us really knows how this app works or what’s going on with the data and who gets it or how much psychological conditioning is going on. 

People pick their side and then dig their heels in and start looking for ways to own the opposition.  Normally logical people start bringing up some shit about stolen tea recipes that happened 200 ago.

If it’s banned or not, one group of very rich, powerful, likely evil, people we will never meet or another will win.  Meanwhile all of us are bickering with each other as if it could possibly make any kind of difference.

I’m sure no one has read this far, but for those against a ban, hypothetically, would you continue being against it if you knew for a fact that the worst-case scenario was happening: Mass syphoning and weaponizing of data, theft of IP and confidential info, an extensive, massive, orchestrated psychological warfare campaign… would you still be against the ban or would you change your mind?

[newguy]

I’m sure no one has read this far, but for those against a ban, hypothetically, would you continue being against it if you knew for a fact that the worst-case scenario was happening: Mass syphoning and weaponizing of data, theft of IP and confidential info, an extensive, massive, orchestrated psychological warfare campaign… would you still be against the ban or would you change your mind?

I would if Facebook instagram and every other trash that does everything you listed was also banned but that wont happen won't it because they're US apps 

[swellbowed]

[newguy]

yeah I'd rather shoot my balls than watch anything published by a US cable network

[Atiba Applebum]

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[close]

yeah I'd rather shoot my balls than watch anything published by a US cable network

You’re in luck.  CBS isn’t a cable network

[ChuckRamone]

Normally logical people start bringing up some shit about stolen tea recipes that happened 200 ago.

This is really minimizing what happened. It's the equivalent of someone stealing Chardonnay, or Parmesan, or Scotch whisky, things that are all made a certain way in a certain region and get special protections because of it. It wasn't just a "recipe" but a whole industry that was ripped off. And it wasn't the only thing. Technological innovations such as printing, paper and gunpowder that nowadays get labeled as "intellectual property" with patents and other protections were as well.

Also, as far as TikTok's innovations go, it's the usability of the app and algorithms that set it apart. Tech innovations these days are often incremental refinements of existing technology, and not big leaps where something entirely new is created. Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, etc., were not entirely new ideas but their implementation of those ideas is what set them apart. Same thing with the iPhone. Apple didn't invent the idea of a handheld tablet phone but brought to market the version that became popular.

[Atiba Applebum]

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Normally logical people start bringing up some shit about stolen tea recipes that happened 200 ago.

[close]

This is really minimizing what happened. It's the equivalent of someone stealing Chardonnay, or Parmesan, or Scotch whisky, things that are all made a certain way in a certain region and get special protections because of it. It wasn't just a "recipe" but a whole industry that was ripped off. And it wasn't the only thing. Technological innovations such as printing, paper and gunpowder that nowadays get labeled as "intellectual property" with patents and other protections were as well.

Also, as far as TikTok's innovations go, it's the usability of the app and algorithms that set it apart. Tech innovations these days are often incremental refinements of existing technology, and not big leaps where something entirely new is created. Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, etc., were not entirely new ideas but their implementation of those ideas is what set them apart. Same thing with the iPhone. Apple didn't invent the idea of a handheld tablet phone but brought to market the version that became popular.

But what about the patents state sponsored hackers are swiping from US companies?   Is that just anti-China propaganda that it’s happening or just a make good

[manysnakes]

I don't understand what you people are even arguing about anymore. You're all backtracking now, forced to acknowledge that China isn't the enemy of the average Slap poster, so now what -  "well, we are all propagandized" and "what if they did this?"

Yeah, none of us know the whole truth, that's the nature of reality and of living in a mediated society; but a good baseline assumption is that the ruling class of the west, who would seem to prefer a final apocalyptic confrontation with China rather than lose dollar hegemony, are not people to be listened to or trusted.

[ungzilla]

one ez way to steal patents is if the country that holds them outsources their whole industrial base and sends them to you so you can make their shit

[manysnakes]

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Normally logical people start bringing up some shit about stolen tea recipes that happened 200 ago.

[close]

This is really minimizing what happened. It's the equivalent of someone stealing Chardonnay, or Parmesan, or Scotch whisky, things that are all made a certain way in a certain region and get special protections because of it. It wasn't just a "recipe" but a whole industry that was ripped off. And it wasn't the only thing. Technological innovations such as printing, paper and gunpowder that nowadays get labeled as "intellectual property" with patents and other protections were as well.

Also, as far as TikTok's innovations go, it's the usability of the app and algorithms that set it apart. Tech innovations these days are often incremental refinements of existing technology, and not big leaps where something entirely new is created. Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, etc., were not entirely new ideas but their implementation of those ideas is what set them apart. Same thing with the iPhone. Apple didn't invent the idea of a handheld tablet phone but brought to market the version that became popular.

[close]

But what about the patents state sponsored hackers are swiping from US companies?   Is that just anti-China propaganda that it’s happening or just a make good

What about that? How is that relevant to this conversation, or to your argument? The Restrict Act would not in any whatsoever affect Chinese hackers - this is literally an entirely separate issue. Not to mention that the US dismantled our manufacturing base and sent it to China - of course they know our trade secrets.

And what do you think the NSA is doing? Why do you think they spent several billion dollars building the Utah Data Center? Did everyone just completely forget about the Snowden leaks, or did they decide that the CIA and NSA - who faced absolutely no penalty for their gross violation of US law - just decided to clean up their act?

[newguy]

I don't understand what you people are even arguing about anymore. You're all backtracking now, forced to acknowledge that China isn't the enemy of the average Slap poster, so now what -  "well, we are all propagandized" and "what if they did this?"

Yeah, none of us know the whole truth, that's the nature of reality and of living in a mediated society; but a good baseline assumption is that the ruling class of the west, who would seem to prefer a final apocalyptic confrontation with China rather than lose dollar hegemony, are not people to be listened to or trusted.

ding ding ding we have a winner

[Atiba Applebum]

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Normally logical people start bringing up some shit about stolen tea recipes that happened 200 ago.

[close]

This is really minimizing what happened. It's the equivalent of someone stealing Chardonnay, or Parmesan, or Scotch whisky, things that are all made a certain way in a certain region and get special protections because of it. It wasn't just a "recipe" but a whole industry that was ripped off. And it wasn't the only thing. Technological innovations such as printing, paper and gunpowder that nowadays get labeled as "intellectual property" with patents and other protections were as well.

Also, as far as TikTok's innovations go, it's the usability of the app and algorithms that set it apart. Tech innovations these days are often incremental refinements of existing technology, and not big leaps where something entirely new is created. Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, etc., were not entirely new ideas but their implementation of those ideas is what set them apart. Same thing with the iPhone. Apple didn't invent the idea of a handheld tablet phone but brought to market the version that became popular.

[close]

But what about the patents state sponsored hackers are swiping from US companies?   Is that just anti-China propaganda that it’s happening or just a make good

[close]

What about that? How is that relevant to this conversation, or to your argument? The Restrict Act would not in any whatsoever affect Chinese hackers - this is literally an entirely separate issue. Not to mention that the US dismantled our manufacturing base and sent it to China - of course they know our trade secrets.

And what do you think the NSA is doing? Why do you think they spent several billion dollars building the Utah Data Center? Did everyone just completely forget about the Snowden leaks, or did they decide that the CIA and NSA - who faced absolutely no penalty for their gross violation of US law - just decided to clean up their act?

Modern Patent theft compared to the original convo of stealing tea IP

[ChuckRamone]

I wouldn't say it's about making good or exacting revenge but that the entire system is predicated on this ridiculous idea of "invention" that favors those who did all the stealing early on then put in place a system of "intellectual property" protection that has created a massive imbalance in wealth and the way resources flow.

[Atiba Applebum]

I wouldn't say it's about making good or exacting revenge but that the entire system is predicated on this ridiculous idea of "invention" that favors those who did all the stealing early on then put in place a system of "intellectual property" protection that has created a massive imbalance in wealth and the way resources flow.

hah yup, that's why Hollywood is the center of moviemaking.   It was far enough away from Edison, his patents, and his "patent enforcers" that they could do what they wanted.

[manysnakes]

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I wouldn't say it's about making good or exacting revenge but that the entire system is predicated on this ridiculous idea of "invention" that favors those who did all the stealing early on then put in place a system of "intellectual property" protection that has created a massive imbalance in wealth and the way resources flow.

[close]

hah yup, that's why Hollywood is the center of moviemaking.   It was far enough away from Edison, his patents, and his "patent enforcers" that they could do what they wanted.

Some of my distant relatives were actually early Hollywood movers and shakers (nothing major, not MGM or anything), and the family story was that the winters in the LES were too much like the life they left behind in the shtetl. Someone came back to New York with a story about how it was 65° all winter in Los Angeles and anyone with two shekels to rub together went with them. Except for my family, who decided to go to Knoxville and open a general store.

[Atiba Applebum]

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I wouldn't say it's about making good or exacting revenge but that the entire system is predicated on this ridiculous idea of "invention" that favors those who did all the stealing early on then put in place a system of "intellectual property" protection that has created a massive imbalance in wealth and the way resources flow.

[close]

hah yup, that's why Hollywood is the center of moviemaking.   It was far enough away from Edison, his patents, and his "patent enforcers" that they could do what they wanted.

[close]

Some of my distant relatives were actually early Hollywood movers and shakers (nothing major, not MGM or anything), and the family story was that the winters in the LES were too much like the life they left behind in the shtetl. Someone came back to New York with a story about how it was 65° all winter in Los Angeles and anyone with two shekels to rub together went with them. Except for my family, who decided to go to Knoxville and open a general store.

that's really interesting.  I know Hollywood was founded by a surprising amount of Hungarian Jews, but I think that might be a little southeastern to be shtetl country.

[newguy]

I’m an artist (3D animation) and I loathe IP, it protects nothing and is often used to abuse us and rob us of our work, yet the rubes defending this affront to god somehow always bring up “b-but what about the creatoooors” which is borderline manipulation based on emotional response “how dare they steal from a poor struggling artist!!”

In reality if IP disappeared I could learn to use a myriad of software that is simply unaccessible to me right now, and even if I cracked them they have specific methods to track you down and demande orbitant payments to force you to settle out of court even though all you wanted was to learn how to create god rays in NukeX or another compositing soft. This applies to pretty much anything really.

And this is why I think Tik Tok got so popular so fast, it places a lot of emphasis on sharing and recycling other people’s content, most of what I see from there is people reacting to other people, or duos, groups of people doing shit together thousands of kms appart. Its pretty cool imo and goes against the walled garden system IP enforces.

I could write fuckin pages about IP, usually it makes me so angry I need to vent how stupid that system is until I stop making sense, spent a lot of time trying to unwrap how it works for artists and individuals.

[cky enthusiast]

i.p. daily

[RichardBarkley]

[Abyss1]

I’m an artist (3D animation) and I loathe IP, it protects nothing and is often used to abuse us and rob us of our work, yet the rubes defending this affront to god somehow always bring up “b-but what about the creatoooors” which is borderline manipulation based on emotional response “how dare they steal from a poor struggling artist!!”

In reality if IP disappeared I could learn to use a myriad of software that is simply unaccessible to me right now, and even if I cracked them they have specific methods to track you down and demande orbitant payments to force you to settle out of court even though all you wanted was to learn how to create god rays in NukeX or another compositing soft. This applies to pretty much anything really.

And this is why I think Tik Tok got so popular so fast, it places a lot of emphasis on sharing and recycling other people’s content, most of what I see from there is people reacting to other people, or duos, groups of people doing shit together thousands of kms appart. Its pretty cool imo and goes against the walled garden system IP enforces.

I could write fuckin pages about IP, usually it makes me so angry I need to vent how stupid that system is until I stop making sense, spent a lot of time trying to unwrap how it works for artists and individuals.

when I started taking art classes in the late 90s, the first thing the teacher said was to be careful about leaving works or portfolios in the studio because people were stealing other peoples art.   Kind has always been the issue in the art world...its worse with music, im hearing kids getting sued now because older artist only assume kids these days only sample or take their musical "likeness".   



Even though I still involve myself heavily in art, the amount of content that i post is nearly zero, its one of the things that bugs me about art now is how its easily replicatable(sp?) online

[ToshiroTownune]

Have you guys checked out the wording in the restrict act? It's basically the patriot act 2.0. I've called all my state reps about it, but we need a lot of people speaking up. It would give the government access to everything you've ever done online, as well as access to all of your devices, including ring doorbell, roomba, literally anything connected to your wifi. There's a ton of tik tok kids mobilizing at the moment to protest, but the bill currently has bipartisan support in the senate and looks like it's going to be fast tracked. McCarthy has said that he wants to ban tik tok so it may get support in the house as well. The time to speak up is now.

[newguy]

Have you guys checked out the wording in the restrict act? It's basically the patriot act 2.0.

I ended up reading a lot of essays and studies on the 2nd irak war years in the US and the climate there right now seems eerily similar to an outsider like me

[manysnakes]

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Have you guys checked out the wording in the restrict act? It's basically the patriot act 2.0.

[close]

I ended up reading a lot of essays and studies on the 2nd irak war years in the US and the climate there right now seems eerily similar to an outsider like me

The same people are trying, mostly with Russia, but also with China, to whip us into a wild bloodlust, but the world is too different a place. There's no trust in elite institutions, there's no massive terrorist attack, no one except the most credulous liberal rubes believes anything the media says. A big concern among US elites is that America could decide to throw the next war and no one will show up.