TARIFFS AND THE SKATE INDUSTRY

[Shitbag]

Thank god apples will be cheap enough so I can buy 3 and not have to put one back.

[Beardedpirate]

Possibly a stupid question, but how will this affect uk pricing? For instance will it affect the uk manufactures who import the decks from the U.S? Or what about say Girl/Choc boards which are made in china? Will they get shipped straight here to save the extra tax increases?

[Too Frank To Fred]

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Finally, I'm unsure which shoe companies want to deal with all this and bring manufacturing back to America. Can you cite something here?

[close]

I have friends in the industry. One is a material engineer at Nike (not saying Nike is going in this direction but he knows a lot about outsourcing labor and how it moves on from country to country).

 the other looks at ways of making manufacturing more socially and ecologically sound (puffing magic fairy dust basically). he did work for Keen and now he's an independent contractor. He knows a shit tonne but I generally tune out when he starts talking about this stuff... i'll get his take on it when we go surfing next.

Companies like Keen and New Balance already have made in US and UK options. spendy and low volume but its in place.

[close]

If you can ask your friend for any public statistics to support these stories that'd be great. Or even articles in industry magazines.

As for New Balance's puffery about being made in America, well it is great marketing. New Balance makes 16 million pairs of shoes each year, but only 4 million are labeled "Made in America." And, even these "made in America" shoes require pieces from abroad.

I wasn't planning on getting that deep and perhaps should have been clearer. My only anecdotal point was, from what I hear companies are indeed having increasing conversations around what it means to brings manufacturing back to the USA. I won't be getting into stats and numbers for you sorry... haha. I work with getting young humans into housing... that's the only data I will bog myself down with... will report back how a 2nd Trump term impacts homelessness...

[sharkjumper]

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Finally, I'm unsure which shoe companies want to deal with all this and bring manufacturing back to America. Can you cite something here?

[close]

I have friends in the industry. One is a material engineer at Nike (not saying Nike is going in this direction but he knows a lot about outsourcing labor and how it moves on from country to country).

 the other looks at ways of making manufacturing more socially and ecologically sound (puffing magic fairy dust basically). he did work for Keen and now he's an independent contractor. He knows a shit tonne but I generally tune out when he starts talking about this stuff... i'll get his take on it when we go surfing next.

Companies like Keen and New Balance already have made in US and UK options. spendy and low volume but its in place.

[close]

If you can ask your friend for any public statistics to support these stories that'd be great. Or even articles in industry magazines.

As for New Balance's puffery about being made in America, well it is great marketing. New Balance makes 16 million pairs of shoes each year, but only 4 million are labeled "Made in America." And, even these "made in America" shoes require pieces from abroad.

[close]

I wasn't planning on getting that deep and perhaps should have been clearer. My only anecdotal point was, from what I hear companies are indeed having increasing conversations around what it means to brings manufacturing back to the USA. I won't be getting into stats and numbers for you sorry... haha. I work with getting young humans into housing... that's the only data I will bog myself down with... will report back how a 2nd Trump term impacts homelessness...

I’ve had some exposure to Keen’s made in USA manufacturing. I’d call it more “assembled in the USA”. I’m not privy to their material sourcing, but it appeared that outsoles still came from their overseas factories and leather and other materials from various sources. I’ll assume that tariffs will apply to some of those pieces.

[JoseCansnake0]

Bout to run through all my wall boards

I have some 3/4/5 year old ex wall boards I'd consider skating if things get out of hand, but I'll probably end up paying the piper. Barely remember the last board i broke

[artskool]

I'm involved with USA clothing manufacturing, and I'll tell you right now that garment manufacturing will never come back to the USA in any major capacity.

If these crazy tariffs do go through, I wouldn't expect them to last more than six months regardless. Besides, if you start mass deporting immigrants, there's definitely no way you're ramping up any kind of manufacturing in this country.

[planman]

Woodchuck makes boards in US. Skated a few of them and liked them. If they can figure maple they’d be good to go, but dunno if us maple even is a thing

There's maple trees all over the states but I'd imagine we'd just start getting trees from all the states  along the 49th as close to the border as possible.

Can anyone explain why Canadian maple specifically is what most boards are made of?

[artskool]

Maple grows more slowly in colder climates, so Canadian maple is harder, with tighter grain structure than maple from the USA.

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Woodchuck makes boards in US. Skated a few of them and liked them. If they can figure maple they’d be good to go, but dunno if us maple even is a thing

[close]

There's maple trees all over the states but I'd imagine we'd just start getting trees from all the states  along the 49th as close to the border as possible.

Can anyone explain why Canadian maple specifically is what most boards are made of?

[TwisT]

Woodchuck makes boards in US. Skated a few of them and liked them. If they can figure maple they’d be good to go, but dunno if us maple even is a thing

Woodchuck does not make boards in the USA. If they did, it would be a greater part of their marketing. I used woodchuck for my board brand at one point and bought a 5 pack earlier this year. They’re decent enough, but not made in the USA.

In my experience with woodshops if the boards are pressed in North America, they’ll let you know.

[GumOnMyGrip]

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Woodchuck makes boards in US. Skated a few of them and liked them. If they can figure maple they’d be good to go, but dunno if us maple even is a thing

[close]

There's maple trees all over the states but I'd imagine we'd just start getting trees from all the states  along the 49th as close to the border as possible.

Can anyone explain why Canadian maple specifically is what most boards are made of?

More plentiful in Canada- I mean it’s on their flag and everything .Cold climate wood is denser and better quality for decks.
I don’t think there is a region that could produce enough in the US outside of Wisconsin and Michigan / Great Lakes area.

[Too Frank To Fred]

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Finally, I'm unsure which shoe companies want to deal with all this and bring manufacturing back to America. Can you cite something here?

[close]

I have friends in the industry. One is a material engineer at Nike (not saying Nike is going in this direction but he knows a lot about outsourcing labor and how it moves on from country to country).

 the other looks at ways of making manufacturing more socially and ecologically sound (puffing magic fairy dust basically). he did work for Keen and now he's an independent contractor. He knows a shit tonne but I generally tune out when he starts talking about this stuff... i'll get his take on it when we go surfing next.

Companies like Keen and New Balance already have made in US and UK options. spendy and low volume but its in place.

[close]

If you can ask your friend for any public statistics to support these stories that'd be great. Or even articles in industry magazines.

As for New Balance's puffery about being made in America, well it is great marketing. New Balance makes 16 million pairs of shoes each year, but only 4 million are labeled "Made in America." And, even these "made in America" shoes require pieces from abroad.

[close]

I wasn't planning on getting that deep and perhaps should have been clearer. My only anecdotal point was, from what I hear companies are indeed having increasing conversations around what it means to brings manufacturing back to the USA. I won't be getting into stats and numbers for you sorry... haha. I work with getting young humans into housing... that's the only data I will bog myself down with... will report back how a 2nd Trump term impacts homelessness...

[close]

I’ve had some exposure to Keen’s made in USA manufacturing. I’d call it more “assembled in the USA”. I’m not privy to their material sourcing, but it appeared that outsoles still came from their overseas factories and leather and other materials from various sources. I’ll assume that tariffs will apply to some of those pieces.

Yes. Very true. "Assembled in US" is more accurate. Funnily enough he just sent me some info on the chemical and material break down of shoes. According to him a "typical pair of shoes has 50+ components coming from dozens of material suppliers, who in turn work with dozens of sub suppliers." All from SE Asia...

So yeah, even if assembled in the US, its fucked...

[Rick Trapasso]

At least swiss bearings won't be impacted.

[benboardbreaker]

the skateboard industry can turn into a similar situation like Brazil. Mostly local brands since people can't afford products from outside. There will probably also be a lot of manufacturing of the same brand in different continents. With out being an industry expert (which I am not) I know there are a few brands that are made different places. Like a flip board in Europe is made here and a flip board in the us is probably in mexico.

[Mongo Lloyd]

About the only positive I can draw from this is that it makes my skate hoarding look brilliant and deliberate.

[sus]

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Finally, I'm unsure which shoe companies want to deal with all this and bring manufacturing back to America. Can you cite something here?

[close]

I have friends in the industry. One is a material engineer at Nike (not saying Nike is going in this direction but he knows a lot about outsourcing labor and how it moves on from country to country).

 the other looks at ways of making manufacturing more socially and ecologically sound (puffing magic fairy dust basically). he did work for Keen and now he's an independent contractor. He knows a shit tonne but I generally tune out when he starts talking about this stuff... i'll get his take on it when we go surfing next.

Companies like Keen and New Balance already have made in US and UK options. spendy and low volume but its in place.

[close]

If you can ask your friend for any public statistics to support these stories that'd be great. Or even articles in industry magazines.

As for New Balance's puffery about being made in America, well it is great marketing. New Balance makes 16 million pairs of shoes each year, but only 4 million are labeled "Made in America." And, even these "made in America" shoes require pieces from abroad.

[close]

I wasn't planning on getting that deep and perhaps should have been clearer. My only anecdotal point was, from what I hear companies are indeed having increasing conversations around what it means to brings manufacturing back to the USA. I won't be getting into stats and numbers for you sorry... haha. I work with getting young humans into housing... that's the only data I will bog myself down with... will report back how a 2nd Trump term impacts homelessness...

[close]

I’ve had some exposure to Keen’s made in USA manufacturing. I’d call it more “assembled in the USA”. I’m not privy to their material sourcing, but it appeared that outsoles still came from their overseas factories and leather and other materials from various sources. I’ll assume that tariffs will apply to some of those pieces.

[close]

Yes. Very true. "Assembled in US" is more accurate. Funnily enough he just sent me some info on the chemical and material break down of shoes. According to him a "typical pair of shoes has 50+ components coming from dozens of material suppliers, who in turn work with dozens of sub suppliers." All from SE Asia...

So yeah, even if assembled in the US, its fucked...

^I remembered Oakley puts "Assembled in USA" on their glasses instead of "Made in USA" because all their parts come from overseas, and then their assembly line in the US puts them together. Don't think you're allowed to write "made in USA" unless the parts come from here too.

As for footwear coming to the US, i can't see that happening anytime soon. A majority of skate footwear comes from asia - specifically Vietnam and China. The cost to make shoes over there can range from roughly $8-$20 per shoe for your fairly simple cupsoles and vulc skate shoes. It's impossible to meet this pricing if you are to source the footwear from the US. Granted, this is also before tariff prices and shipping costs are applied to the shoes. Let me break down how this works for you:

Lets say a shoe costs $15 for a brand to produce. If it is coming from china, that adds a 10% tariff rate just for coming out of China. Then your additional tariff will depend on the type of shoe. If it is made out of mostly Suede/Leather, it falls under the classification of 'animal hyde' footwear - that adds another roughly 8% tariff rate. If the shoe is made out of mostly canvas or synthetics, you're paying an even higher rate. Lets also say you're paying $2/shoe for every shoe you ship into the US via a cargo ship (cheapest option). Now the shoe company is paying an additional $4.70 on top of the price of shoe for tariffs and freight prices. This shoe now costs shoe company a total of $19.70 per unit. Shoe company will now charge double for wholesale accounts at roughly $40/shoe. This price doubled again at the retail level is now $80 for this shoe.

So the $80 shoe you bought at the skate shop cost the shoe company around $20 to make, give or take a few dollars.

Now if you take a 'made in the US' shoe like a New Balance 998 Made in the USA which costs $210, we can assume the average cost for NB to produce the shoe is about $52.50. Granted this is a running shoe, not a skate shoe, but the same basic cost/pricing ratio applies.

That cost difference alone would hurt companies a ton in a time where people are already complaining heavily about the prices of shoes everything going up, which they will with the upcoming tariff increases for the US in 2025. EU pricing should stay the same because additional cost due to tariff pricing applies only to the US at the moment? Dunno really why I wrote all this but yeah, hope this breaks things down for y'all. Source: I used to work in the footwear industry

tl;dr - shoes would cost way too much to manufacture in the US, so that production shift wont happen.

[Chavo]

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Woodchuck makes boards in US. Skated a few of them and liked them. If they can figure maple they’d be good to go, but dunno if us maple even is a thing

[close]

There's maple trees all over the states but I'd imagine we'd just start getting trees from all the states  along the 49th as close to the border as possible.

Can anyone explain why Canadian maple specifically is what most boards are made of?

[close]

More plentiful in Canada- I mean it’s on their flag and everything .Cold climate wood is denser and better quality for decks.
I don’t think there is a region that could produce enough in the US outside of Wisconsin and Michigan / Great Lakes area.

Skateboards are made specifically with sugar maple, which really can't grow anywhere else besides northern north america. I suppose they can be made of any hardwood, it just wouldn't be the same. We'll either skate Walmart style decks or go back to sidewalk surfing on oak planks. Also, aluminum ores are most abundant in China. The U.S. can't start excreting natural resources we don't have.

[TwisT]

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Woodchuck makes boards in US. Skated a few of them and liked them. If they can figure maple they’d be good to go, but dunno if us maple even is a thing

[close]

There's maple trees all over the states but I'd imagine we'd just start getting trees from all the states  along the 49th as close to the border as possible.

Can anyone explain why Canadian maple specifically is what most boards are made of?

[close]

More plentiful in Canada- I mean it’s on their flag and everything .Cold climate wood is denser and better quality for decks.
I don’t think there is a region that could produce enough in the US outside of Wisconsin and Michigan / Great Lakes area.

[close]

Skateboards are made specifically with sugar maple, which really can't grow anywhere else besides northern north america. I suppose they can be made of any hardwood, it just wouldn't be the same. We'll either skate Walmart style decks or go back to sidewalk surfing on oak planks. Also, aluminum ores are most abundant in China. The U.S. can't start excreting natural resources we don't have.

The tactics site says they use Wisconsin maple In their shop boards. I DMed them on IG and said they’re still using BBS. Ergo BBs is getting their wood from Wisconsin at least at the moment. So there is at least wood available in the US for US manufacturers to get a hold on.

I do wonder if bigger brands move toward the smaller US woodshops (drifter, Quincy, empire,) will that force out some smaller ones

[Chavo]

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Woodchuck makes boards in US. Skated a few of them and liked them. If they can figure maple they’d be good to go, but dunno if us maple even is a thing

[close]

There's maple trees all over the states but I'd imagine we'd just start getting trees from all the states  along the 49th as close to the border as possible.

Can anyone explain why Canadian maple specifically is what most boards are made of?

[close]

More plentiful in Canada- I mean it’s on their flag and everything .Cold climate wood is denser and better quality for decks.
I don’t think there is a region that could produce enough in the US outside of Wisconsin and Michigan / Great Lakes area.

[close]

Skateboards are made specifically with sugar maple, which really can't grow anywhere else besides northern north america. I suppose they can be made of any hardwood, it just wouldn't be the same. We'll either skate Walmart style decks or go back to sidewalk surfing on oak planks. Also, aluminum ores are most abundant in China. The U.S. can't start excreting natural resources we don't have.

[close]

The tactics site says they use Wisconsin maple In their shop boards. I DMed them on IG and said they’re still using BBS. Ergo BBs is getting their wood from Wisconsin at least at the moment. So there is at least wood available in the US for US manufacturers to get a hold on.

I do wonder if bigger brands move toward the smaller US woodshops (drifter, Quincy, empire,) will that force out some smaller ones

It's not as dense and strong. I wonder if it's cheaper. Then again, woodshops have been using chinese "maple" as filler layers unbeknownst to consumers.

[sharkjumper]

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Finally, I'm unsure which shoe companies want to deal with all this and bring manufacturing back to America. Can you cite something here?

[close]

I have friends in the industry. One is a material engineer at Nike (not saying Nike is going in this direction but he knows a lot about outsourcing labor and how it moves on from country to country).

 the other looks at ways of making manufacturing more socially and ecologically sound (puffing magic fairy dust basically). he did work for Keen and now he's an independent contractor. He knows a shit tonne but I generally tune out when he starts talking about this stuff... i'll get his take on it when we go surfing next.

Companies like Keen and New Balance already have made in US and UK options. spendy and low volume but its in place.

[close]

If you can ask your friend for any public statistics to support these stories that'd be great. Or even articles in industry magazines.

As for New Balance's puffery about being made in America, well it is great marketing. New Balance makes 16 million pairs of shoes each year, but only 4 million are labeled "Made in America." And, even these "made in America" shoes require pieces from abroad.

[close]

I wasn't planning on getting that deep and perhaps should have been clearer. My only anecdotal point was, from what I hear companies are indeed having increasing conversations around what it means to brings manufacturing back to the USA. I won't be getting into stats and numbers for you sorry... haha. I work with getting young humans into housing... that's the only data I will bog myself down with... will report back how a 2nd Trump term impacts homelessness...

[close]

I’ve had some exposure to Keen’s made in USA manufacturing. I’d call it more “assembled in the USA”. I’m not privy to their material sourcing, but it appeared that outsoles still came from their overseas factories and leather and other materials from various sources. I’ll assume that tariffs will apply to some of those pieces.

[close]

Yes. Very true. "Assembled in US" is more accurate. Funnily enough he just sent me some info on the chemical and material break down of shoes. According to him a "typical pair of shoes has 50+ components coming from dozens of material suppliers, who in turn work with dozens of sub suppliers." All from SE Asia...

So yeah, even if assembled in the US, its fucked...

[close]

^I remembered Oakley puts "Assembled in USA" on their glasses instead of "Made in USA" because all their parts come from overseas, and then their assembly line in the US puts them together. Don't think you're allowed to write "made in USA" unless the parts come from here too.

You might know better, but I’m sure there’s some legal threshold of the amount components and labor that determines “made in USA”.


Full side question on this topic. Are raw materials going to be subject to these tariffs, or is it focused on manufactured goods? I suppose none of us know at this point. But that will change the equation a bit.

[Aatila]

HLC has a Texas plant now i wonder if they will shift some things around in anticipation of the tariffs

[corto]

In Europe HLC woodshop has their mouth salivating. Their demand is going to go through the roof.

[Dopethrone]

America is going to catch up in prices like the rest of us.

In the UK baker, passport, welcome, FA and hockey etc are 80-100 not in the sale all brands are similar pricing.

[Dopethrone]

America is going to catch up in prices like the rest of us.

In the UK baker, passport, welcome, FA and hockey etc are 80-100 not in the sale all brands are similar pricing.

Same with wheels are trucks, shits pretty expensive here.

[mj23]

most of this discussion assumes that trump is actually going implement the tariffs he talked about while campaigning. it's certainly possible, but his track record is pretty much 100% in lockstep with whatever Big Business wants, and i suspect most Big Business leaders would prefer not to fuck up their bottom line by restructuring their entire business around a trade war with china.

[sus]

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Finally, I'm unsure which shoe companies want to deal with all this and bring manufacturing back to America. Can you cite something here?

[close]

I have friends in the industry. One is a material engineer at Nike (not saying Nike is going in this direction but he knows a lot about outsourcing labor and how it moves on from country to country).

 the other looks at ways of making manufacturing more socially and ecologically sound (puffing magic fairy dust basically). he did work for Keen and now he's an independent contractor. He knows a shit tonne but I generally tune out when he starts talking about this stuff... i'll get his take on it when we go surfing next.

Companies like Keen and New Balance already have made in US and UK options. spendy and low volume but its in place.

[close]

If you can ask your friend for any public statistics to support these stories that'd be great. Or even articles in industry magazines.

As for New Balance's puffery about being made in America, well it is great marketing. New Balance makes 16 million pairs of shoes each year, but only 4 million are labeled "Made in America." And, even these "made in America" shoes require pieces from abroad.

[close]

I wasn't planning on getting that deep and perhaps should have been clearer. My only anecdotal point was, from what I hear companies are indeed having increasing conversations around what it means to brings manufacturing back to the USA. I won't be getting into stats and numbers for you sorry... haha. I work with getting young humans into housing... that's the only data I will bog myself down with... will report back how a 2nd Trump term impacts homelessness...

[close]

I’ve had some exposure to Keen’s made in USA manufacturing. I’d call it more “assembled in the USA”. I’m not privy to their material sourcing, but it appeared that outsoles still came from their overseas factories and leather and other materials from various sources. I’ll assume that tariffs will apply to some of those pieces.

[close]

Yes. Very true. "Assembled in US" is more accurate. Funnily enough he just sent me some info on the chemical and material break down of shoes. According to him a "typical pair of shoes has 50+ components coming from dozens of material suppliers, who in turn work with dozens of sub suppliers." All from SE Asia...

So yeah, even if assembled in the US, its fucked...

[close]

^I remembered Oakley puts "Assembled in USA" on their glasses instead of "Made in USA" because all their parts come from overseas, and then their assembly line in the US puts them together. Don't think you're allowed to write "made in USA" unless the parts come from here too.

[close]

You might know better, but I’m sure there’s some legal threshold of the amount components and labor that determines “made in USA”.


Full side question on this topic. Are raw materials going to be subject to these tariffs, or is it focused on manufactured goods? I suppose none of us know at this point. But that will change the equation a bit.

Pretty sure that legal threshold is what got Oakley in trouble and made them update their products to say "assembled in USA"

As for raw materials, I would imagine that would be subject to those tariffs as well. Anything coming from an outside country to the US is basically subject to a tariff, which is based on two things: a flat rate for the country it is being exported from, and an additional specific rate for the type of good that is being exported.

So a canvas shoe coming out of China will have a higher tariff rate than a suede version of the same shoe coming out of china because the tariff classification for a canvas shoe falls under higher rate than suede. This doesn't necessarily make the canvas shoe more expensive, because the raw material costs for canvas are way cheaper than for suede, but the total tariffs paid on each canvas shoe will likely be slightly higher than the tariff for the suede shoe.

[dirtywork81]

It would actually present an opportunity or two to open woodshops in the US to support people here and avoid tariffs.  It would be cool to open one and provide jobs for the homeless making boards.  Getting people back on their feet and knowing the conditions are probably better for the workers than they would be in the factories in Mexico and China.

Well where are you going to get that Canadian Maple from for thus factories in the USA?

[LonleySk8er15]

Yes, in America prisoners make license plates, and the homeless make skateboard decks. What a dream.

Prisoners make skateboards too.

[LonleySk8er15]

another big reason why manufacturing left America was environmental regulations. In other countries businesses can operate in a way that can not be done in America regarding pollution and environmental impact. The current administration wants to cut the EPA and loosen labor laws so the conditions for manufacturing might become more favorable, but I only see companies wanting to do that if "Made in USA" actually moves more units and creates more profit. I dont think USA made skateboards will sell better than imported skateboards.

South Central MFG uses prison labor to make skateboards

[Plan9Customs]

Legend is out of Sacramento and he stains/presses/shapes/screens his own boards in house. Not sure where his wood is sourced from though, I’ll ask next time I get a chance to skate with him.
For the record, I love BBS wood and his are on par.

[Unkle Fleak]

If anyone wants me to come out and start digging a dlxsf tunnel let me know now so I can clear my schedule for the next few months.

And just wait yo like a lot of these brands are just gonna raise their prices anyway and blame it on the Republican Party

The shoe industry we need to sacrifice it