Author Topic: Spitfire formula four  (Read 1060105 times)

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Mbrimson88

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #6900 on: November 02, 2024, 04:23:38 AM »
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anyone here skated Lock Ins or Lock In Fulls? I bought the Grimple wheels at 54mm and they are Lock In Fulls. I would not have bought them if I had known that they were, I thought they were either conical or radial fulls.

Anyways, I haven’t rotated them yet because they’re asymmetrical, anyone skated them and just not rotated them? Buying wheels and not being able to rotate them cuts their life into a quarter of how long I would skate them or less.
[close]
You can rotate them just fine? Switch them around in an X pattern.
[close]

This makes sense and will help a bit but the wheels will still not wear evenly. If I rotate them like you’ve suggested, I think the front inside wheels which wears out most quickly will wear less aggressively, but it will still continue to cone. It’s not going to even out like they would normally if I were to just flip the wheel.

I appreciate the advice.

& @moonordie , I thought they were weird at first as well but I’ve come to enjoy them a lot recently. I don’t know if I want to attribute my success 100% to the wheels, but I rarely miss frontside 50-50’s on round rails now. Without even trying to, I cross lock them every time. I’ve been going out of my way to try them more often and across the entire rail that we skate so it is a conscious effort on my behalf but I will say I have made a lot of progress while skating these wheels.

& I bought them for their graphic haha! which have held up fairly well.

I don’t want to buy new wheels but I just feel like rotating them how I would normally, given that each side is a different shape, would negate whatever “lock in” effect their design was created to enable.


I know it is all down to how people actually skate, as there are some very hectic wear patterns I have seen people come into the shop with, or even just in passing at skateparks or where ever, but at the end of the day, I usually don't find I need to turn the wheels around if I rotate them evenly on the board, eg usually front heel wears the least, front toe wears to the outside edge, back heel wears more inside, back toe more evenly but the most, so then front toe to back heel, front heel to back toe, at which time they seem to even out nicely.

Regular rotation is key though, so not letting something get so worn that it looks weird or makes the board feel uneven, eg worn smaller wheels in the back, then end up on the front, so the board tilt is now off for how you were used to it.


Lock in wheels in general hold up pretty well, Lock in full wheels maybe even more so as there is just so much meat to them, so they are less likely to cone down like other narrow wheels, but just don't leave them on the same way for too long and check and move them round the board as needed, often even just swap on the same truck too, if the X pattern is not working.

At the end of the day though, they can be turned around, so I would have them ALL inside, or ALL outside for the shape, but it is just getting used to the offset of 1-2 mm or whatever it is, which can be a bit weird, or even more so just the thought of turning them round, but people do it and it does work well enough.  I tried it just to see and had no issues with either way once I was used to how wide they were.


Gone since 1988.  I talk too much about skateboards.  Sorry.

munchbox

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #6901 on: November 02, 2024, 03:54:39 PM »
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anyone here skated Lock Ins or Lock In Fulls? I bought the Grimple wheels at 54mm and they are Lock In Fulls. I would not have bought them if I had known that they were, I thought they were either conical or radial fulls.

Anyways, I haven’t rotated them yet because they’re asymmetrical, anyone skated them and just not rotated them? Buying wheels and not being able to rotate them cuts their life into a quarter of how long I would skate them or less.
[close]
One side is a tablet and the other a conical, is a really weird wheel. I had them in 54mm and hated them. Too damn wide.
[close]

Damn, my homie had the 58s and hated them. He rode them on a 8.5 antihero and hollow indys. He said he couldn't flip his board and they felt weird. I think it was board, big ass wb.

He passed em down to me. I set them up on a palace 8.1 with venture lows. I fucking love them. They slide good and grip when i want them.  Reminds of a decade ago when i was riding 58 park burners exclusively to feel like Matt Reason and Fred Gall. Honestly, I had the most fun. Yeah wheelbite is an issue but on venture lows anything wheelbites.
58mm with lows?
please show the class
while cool-guying is a real phenomenon, studies show that 83% of all cool-guying incidents can be attributed to the cool-guyee being an awkward weirdo

Fifty8mm

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #6902 on: November 02, 2024, 04:07:56 PM »
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anyone here skated Lock Ins or Lock In Fulls? I bought the Grimple wheels at 54mm and they are Lock In Fulls. I would not have bought them if I had known that they were, I thought they were either conical or radial fulls.

Anyways, I haven’t rotated them yet because they’re asymmetrical, anyone skated them and just not rotated them? Buying wheels and not being able to rotate them cuts their life into a quarter of how long I would skate them or less.
[close]
One side is a tablet and the other a conical, is a really weird wheel. I had them in 54mm and hated them. Too damn wide.
[close]

Damn, my homie had the 58s and hated them. He rode them on a 8.5 antihero and hollow indys. He said he couldn't flip his board and they felt weird. I think it was board, big ass wb.

He passed em down to me. I set them up on a palace 8.1 with venture lows. I fucking love them. They slide good and grip when i want them.  Reminds of a decade ago when i was riding 58 park burners exclusively to feel like Matt Reason and Fred Gall. Honestly, I had the most fun. Yeah wheelbite is an issue but on venture lows anything wheelbites.
[close]
58mm with lows?
please show the class
Lol i could show the set up.

But i would rather show how i eat shit on it lol

Lou Strux

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #6903 on: November 02, 2024, 04:57:15 PM »
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anyone here skated Lock Ins or Lock In Fulls? I bought the Grimple wheels at 54mm and they are Lock In Fulls. I would not have bought them if I had known that they were, I thought they were either conical or radial fulls.

Anyways, I haven’t rotated them yet because they’re asymmetrical, anyone skated them and just not rotated them? Buying wheels and not being able to rotate them cuts their life into a quarter of how long I would skate them or less.
[close]
One side is a tablet and the other a conical, is a really weird wheel. I had them in 54mm and hated them. Too damn wide.
[close]

Damn, my homie had the 58s and hated them. He rode them on a 8.5 antihero and hollow indys. He said he couldn't flip his board and they felt weird. I think it was board, big ass wb.

He passed em down to me. I set them up on a palace 8.1 with venture lows. I fucking love them. They slide good and grip when i want them.  Reminds of a decade ago when i was riding 58 park burners exclusively to feel like Matt Reason and Fred Gall. Honestly, I had the most fun. Yeah wheelbite is an issue but on venture lows anything wheelbites.
[close]
58mm with lows?
please show the class
[close]
Lol i could show the set up.

But i would rather show how i eat shit on it lol
Post a wipeout, hugsboi!

I wanna play you in a game of SKATE for the right to continue talking shit on me… You think you got me?

Fifty8mm

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #6904 on: November 02, 2024, 06:16:22 PM »
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anyone here skated Lock Ins or Lock In Fulls? I bought the Grimple wheels at 54mm and they are Lock In Fulls. I would not have bought them if I had known that they were, I thought they were either conical or radial fulls.

Anyways, I haven’t rotated them yet because they’re asymmetrical, anyone skated them and just not rotated them? Buying wheels and not being able to rotate them cuts their life into a quarter of how long I would skate them or less.
[close]
One side is a tablet and the other a conical, is a really weird wheel. I had them in 54mm and hated them. Too damn wide.
[close]

Damn, my homie had the 58s and hated them. He rode them on a 8.5 antihero and hollow indys. He said he couldn't flip his board and they felt weird. I think it was board, big ass wb.

He passed em down to me. I set them up on a palace 8.1 with venture lows. I fucking love them. They slide good and grip when i want them.  Reminds of a decade ago when i was riding 58 park burners exclusively to feel like Matt Reason and Fred Gall. Honestly, I had the most fun. Yeah wheelbite is an issue but on venture lows anything wheelbites.
[close]
58mm with lows?
please show the class
[close]
Lol i could show the set up.

But i would rather show how i eat shit on it lol
[close]
Post a wipeout, hugsboi!

I hate parking block ledges. It's hard for me to stand on them. My knee is rocked, smacked it at work. I would've tried to do a decent one. Srry pals.
https://streamable.com/sfhoz2

Also i think they are 57mm, my friend told me they were 58mm but i cant find the grimple lock ins 58s.






« Last Edit: November 02, 2024, 06:45:14 PM by Fifty8mm »

Lou Strux

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #6905 on: November 02, 2024, 08:22:14 PM »
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Expand Quote
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Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
anyone here skated Lock Ins or Lock In Fulls? I bought the Grimple wheels at 54mm and they are Lock In Fulls. I would not have bought them if I had known that they were, I thought they were either conical or radial fulls.

Anyways, I haven’t rotated them yet because they’re asymmetrical, anyone skated them and just not rotated them? Buying wheels and not being able to rotate them cuts their life into a quarter of how long I would skate them or less.
[close]
One side is a tablet and the other a conical, is a really weird wheel. I had them in 54mm and hated them. Too damn wide.
[close]

Damn, my homie had the 58s and hated them. He rode them on a 8.5 antihero and hollow indys. He said he couldn't flip his board and they felt weird. I think it was board, big ass wb.

He passed em down to me. I set them up on a palace 8.1 with venture lows. I fucking love them. They slide good and grip when i want them.  Reminds of a decade ago when i was riding 58 park burners exclusively to feel like Matt Reason and Fred Gall. Honestly, I had the most fun. Yeah wheelbite is an issue but on venture lows anything wheelbites.
[close]
58mm with lows?
please show the class
[close]
Lol i could show the set up.

But i would rather show how i eat shit on it lol
[close]
Post a wipeout, hugsboi!
[close]

I hate parking block ledges. It's hard for me to stand on them. My knee is rocked, smacked it at work. I would've tried to do a decent one. Srry pals.
https://streamable.com/sfhoz2

Also i think they are 57mm, my friend told me they were 58mm but i cant find the grimple lock ins 58s.



Def catching a whiff of Matt Reason of that one. 
Looks fun.
I'd wheelbite my ass straight to the ground on that set up, but I can for sure appreciate the aesthetic.

I wanna play you in a game of SKATE for the right to continue talking shit on me… You think you got me?

BeachChicken

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #6906 on: November 03, 2024, 06:42:46 AM »
Homie is in town that has the 93A Radial that I gave him and wtf they bark louder and feel faster at the park than my 97

Unkle Fleak

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #6907 on: November 03, 2024, 02:47:25 PM »
I wanna continue to ride the old 97s. Scratch that just seen the sticker above.

Have any y’all seen the video by Tony Gail on the Dragon wheels? Powell wheels are not made in the USA. Only bones wheels are made here.

Tony’s channel is called Freestyle trick tips. I like to see him look at thesecstreet wheels
« Last Edit: November 03, 2024, 02:58:49 PM by Unkle Fleak »
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logjammin

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #6908 on: November 04, 2024, 10:36:52 AM »
Skated the 93a 54mm classic shapes the other day. I had em once before but don't recall them being so slippery. It was like I was on 99a's but softer in terms of vibration. Still slipped out like crazy, I do not like the 93a formula. Put back on my old 1st gen potato 97's and they grip way better. Just gonna keep skating them til they're bearing condoms.

hiljentaa

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #6909 on: November 04, 2024, 02:45:12 PM »
Skated my 93 58 Radials again today. Such fun wheels. They maintain momentum really well.

Had a bearing back out of its seat for the first time today. Hopefully it doesn't happen more. With the cursed bearings of course.

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #6910 on: November 04, 2024, 03:10:37 PM »
I wanna continue to ride the old 97s. Scratch that just seen the sticker above.

Have any y’all seen the video by Tony Gail on the Dragon wheels? Powell wheels are not made in the USA. Only bones wheels are made here.

Tony’s channel is called Freestyle trick tips. I like to see him look at thesecstreet wheels

Whaat? Scandalous! Do you have evidence of this controversy? I thought PP/Bones were made in the same factory and with the same urethane?!
Maybe that's why my new PP 97a Dragons feel different to my old X97 wheels...

Jackismydogsname

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #6911 on: November 04, 2024, 06:56:23 PM »
Some Powell wheels that come on completes or reissues are made in China. I have not seen the 88s I person but if they someone sees them in the package check the barcode,  it will say USA under it if they still are.
I have a feeling in that video that those are USA made but the "new" formulas are weird and batches feel different and x/dragon do have a different smell.  ;)


Expand Quote
I wanna continue to ride the old 97s. Scratch that just seen the sticker above.

Have any y’all seen the video by Tony Gail on the Dragon wheels? Powell wheels are not made in the USA. Only bones wheels are made here.

Tony’s channel is called Freestyle trick tips. I like to see him look at thesecstreet wheels
[close]

Whaat? Scandalous! Do you have evidence of this controversy? I thought PP/Bones were made in the same factory and with the same urethane?!
Maybe that's why my new PP 97a Dragons feel different to my old X97 wheels...

hiljentaa

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #6912 on: November 06, 2024, 08:03:52 AM »
Has Spitfire put any 56mm Classics out in the new reformulated 97a?

Mbrimson88

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #6913 on: November 06, 2024, 04:14:05 PM »
Has Spitfire put any 56mm Classics out in the new reformulated 97a?


Yes all the old shapes of the 97s are being redone in the new formula, but it could be a while before they make it out to every corner of the globe, especially if shops are still sitting on old stock.

The people in the know said they have been making everything in the new formula for a while now, but a lot of places either haven't ordered them, or even DLX hasn't cleared old formula stock, which will happen first, then new formula goes out.

People have said there is no way to order just the new formula, but some shops / people have said they will list "New formula" when they do arrive, so it is easier to see.


The only way to really check is if the packaging has the new sticker on them.


Gone since 1988.  I talk too much about skateboards.  Sorry.

Kombuch-A-Holic

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #6914 on: November 14, 2024, 07:36:43 AM »
Here’s my quick review for anyone interested. I picked up the Spitfire F4 93 Classics back in April. Honestly, I haven’t skated as much as I’d like this year, but these wheels have been a lifesaver for my joints. I tried my 99s for about 10 minutes last week but quickly switched back to the 93s—they’re just easier on my body.

The 99s (which I’ve had for three years) are still in perfect shape, even after all kinds of terrain. As for the 93 Classics, I mostly use them at the skate park, but I did take them to a rough parking garage downtown one night. They’ve started to cone a bit, so I rotated them to even out the wear until I can get my hands on some 93 Radials.

Paired with my Rowley XLTs, these wheels make a big difference. My body feels better, and my sessions last longer. I don’t think I’ll be going back to anything harder anytime soon.

That being said , I'm not in love with them and won't be shouting from the mountaintops for everyone to get them. It feels more like these are just what I need to skate now if I want to go for more that 10 minutes without hurting. 

fulfillthedream

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #6915 on: November 14, 2024, 08:07:20 AM »
I remember the first few years of F4's they had the "classic full shape" which is the same as the big head right?
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Scab Picker

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #6916 on: November 14, 2024, 09:04:01 AM »
I remember the first few years of F4's they had the "classic full shape" which is the same as the big head right?
Classic Full is slightly less in width and has a wider riding surface.

53 mm Bighead:
33.7 width, 17 riding

53 mm Classic Full:
33.5 width, 18.5 riding

BeachChicken

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #6917 on: November 14, 2024, 10:35:22 AM »
I'm convinced the 97a Classics I got with the new sticker are the old formula. A friend with the 93s rode my 97s at the same 2 spots and we both noticed his 93s were louder, faster, and barked more.

Unkle Fleak

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #6918 on: November 14, 2024, 07:37:31 PM »
Expand Quote
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Expand Quote
Expand Quote
anyone here skated Lock Ins or Lock In Fulls? I bought the Grimple wheels at 54mm and they are Lock In Fulls. I would not have bought them if I had known that they were, I thought they were either conical or radial fulls.

Anyways, I haven’t rotated them yet because they’re asymmetrical, anyone skated them and just not rotated them? Buying wheels and not being able to rotate them cuts their life into a quarter of how long I would skate them or less.
[close]
One side is a tablet and the other a conical, is a really weird wheel. I had them in 54mm and hated them. Too damn wide.
[close]

Damn, my homie had the 58s and hated them. He rode them on a 8.5 antihero and hollow indys. He said he couldn't flip his board and they felt weird. I think it was board, big ass wb.

He passed em down to me. I set them up on a palace 8.1 with venture lows. I fucking love them. They slide good and grip when i want them.  Reminds of a decade ago when i was riding 58 park burners exclusively to feel like Matt Reason and Fred Gall. Honestly, I had the most fun. Yeah wheelbite is an issue but on venture lows anything wheelbites.
[close]
58mm with lows?
please show the class
[close]
Lol i could show the set up.

But i would rather show how i eat shit on it lol
[close]
Post a wipeout, hugsboi!
[close]

I hate parking block ledges. It's hard for me to stand on them. My knee is rocked, smacked it at work. I would've tried to do a decent one. Srry pals.
https://streamable.com/sfhoz2

Also i think they are 57mm, my friend told me they were 58mm but i cant find the grimple lock ins 58s.




Too sick yo
Album link. I saw another pals account   Photos too big. Apologies. I know some of yall hate me for it
[url]https://scumbaripunk.bandcamp.com/album/s-t[\url]

back smith

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #6919 on: November 14, 2024, 11:32:46 PM »
I wanna continue to ride the old 97s. Scratch that just seen the sticker above.

Have any y’all seen the video by Tony Gail on the Dragon wheels? Powell wheels are not made in the USA. Only bones wheels are made here.

Tony’s channel is called Freestyle trick tips. I like to see him look at thesecstreet wheels
Dragons are made in USA, so they say.


Mbrimson88

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #6920 on: November 15, 2024, 04:38:09 PM »
Expand Quote
I remember the first few years of F4's they had the "classic full shape" which is the same as the big head right?
[close]
Classic Full is slightly less in width and has a wider riding surface.

53 mm Bighead:
33.7 width, 17 riding

53 mm Classic Full:
33.5 width, 18.5 riding


Then they go wider in Classic Full in 56 and 58 mm sizes.

Almost the same shape, but still different by a little in both overall width and contact area.

The Classic Full 56 are very close to the old 90s Spitfire wheel shapes though, when I look at them side by side.

Spitfire charts with shape info was always wrong for the Classic Full shapes too (in the bigger sizes).


Classic Full size chart:

https://www.slapmagazine.com/index.php?topic=68020.msg4141428;topicseen#msg4141428



* Easier to just add it here again.



Classic Full chart correct to 54mm and measurements just taken again on wheels I have:

52       33       18
53       33.5    18.5
54       34       19
54.5    35       19.5
56       37       22.5
58       38       24


*  The 54.5 were the Cardiel specials, just in case anyone was confused.



Gone since 1988.  I talk too much about skateboards.  Sorry.

Mbrimson88

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #6921 on: November 15, 2024, 04:57:41 PM »
Expand Quote
I remember the first few years of F4's they had the "classic full shape" which is the same as the big head right?
[close]
Classic Full is slightly less in width and has a wider riding surface.

53 mm Bighead:
33.7 width, 17 riding

53 mm Classic Full:
33.5 width, 18.5 riding


The other funny thing is the bigger Bighead wheels have actually gotten skinnier in more recent years too.

They were a few mm wider a while back, but now they seem almost closer to the Classic shape, than what used to be the 90s round shapes that were used for most wheels.

Not a big deal (no pun intended) as most people don't even ride the old OG formula anyway so there are way fewer of them out there, but going through the box of old wheels, including new old stock, there are a lot more wheels on the wider side, eg 36 mm wide and up than compared to the more recent which seem closer to the normal Classic lines, being about 35 tops, apart from the 59 mm which is 37 mm wide.

I would probably talk a little too much about the wider wheels because that is the shape I like, coming from the 90s wide but round, more so than the newer wide but square shapes.

Gone since 1988.  I talk too much about skateboards.  Sorry.

rikki

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #6922 on: November 16, 2024, 12:25:41 AM »
The new duro 97s are great. Skated them (Radial 55) on some new super smooth concrete yesterday and they felt fast. And really grippy. No problems with e.g. boardslides/lipslides on ledges (new park, new ledges, needed some wax on top for sure though). Bark is nice. Not once did I slip out.

Obviously not my first choice for a smooth park (would go Bones SPF 84b if freqeuenting one) but had absolutely no issues with regards to performance.

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #6923 on: November 16, 2024, 12:49:51 AM »
I was on the old 97s in a wet park yesterday and they did well. Less slippery than expected. Almost felt less slippery than dry, but I was kinda pussyfooting around so maybe that's why.

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #6924 on: November 16, 2024, 01:05:21 AM »
I was a sucker for the Big Heads so I got a set of the Burner wheels just to try the shape. Wish me luck that these don't flat spot on my first powerslide.
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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #6925 on: November 16, 2024, 02:40:11 AM »
I was a sucker for the Big Heads so I got a set of the Burner wheels just to try the shape. Wish me luck that these don't flat spot on my first powerslide.


I was keen to get a set just to see, but always found more interesting things to get instead.

Good luck - always keen to hear how they go too.

Gone since 1988.  I talk too much about skateboards.  Sorry.

yghartsyrt

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #6926 on: November 18, 2024, 02:35:21 PM »
It seems, radials took my slappy crooks. The double edge curb i usually skate is slightly higher than regular curbs and with the radials I very often just slip out to noseslide or even overshoot to boardslide. Too scary. Back to conical fulls i guess. Bummed, because unlike how they look.

Mbrimson88

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #6927 on: November 18, 2024, 03:20:37 PM »
It seems, radials took my slappy crooks. The double edge curb i usually skate is slightly higher than regular curbs and with the radials I very often just slip out to noseslide or even overshoot to boardslide. Too scary. Back to conical fulls i guess. Bummed, because unlike how they look.


Are the new Radials bigger than your usual / older Conical Full wheels?

Size of new wheels is often something that people overlook, but is not the be all and end all to how things feel.  I had a lot of tech tricks going back in the day on wheels that ended up being very small, then when I got new wheels, nothing worked as I was used to due to the wheel size difference.  This was back in the day, not current skating, so the old ones were probably 50 mm or under, the new ones 56 mm or so.  I do notice this on different setups now though, so even the same shape wheel in different sizes can perform differently for me.

The funny thing is the edge of both Radial and Conical Full is fairly much the same from new, both slightly wider with a smaller or lower edge, compared to rounder wheels like Classics, so it would be interesting to compare and see how much different they are in size and shape, right where they would touch anything like the side of a curb if you are slapping or popping into anything.

Curious to hear any which way.


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yghartsyrt

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #6928 on: November 18, 2024, 09:30:45 PM »
Expand Quote
It seems, radials took my slappy crooks. The double edge curb i usually skate is slightly higher than regular curbs and with the radials I very often just slip out to noseslide or even overshoot to boardslide. Too scary. Back to conical fulls i guess. Bummed, because unlike how they look.
[close]


Are the new Radials bigger than your usual / older Conical Full wheels?

Size of new wheels is often something that people overlook, but is not the be all and end all to how things feel.  I had a lot of tech tricks going back in the day on wheels that ended up being very small, then when I got new wheels, nothing worked as I was used to due to the wheel size difference.  This was back in the day, not current skating, so the old ones were probably 50 mm or under, the new ones 56 mm or so.  I do notice this on different setups now though, so even the same shape wheel in different sizes can perform differently for me.

The funny thing is the edge of both Radial and Conical Full is fairly much the same from new, both slightly wider with a smaller or lower edge, compared to rounder wheels like Classics, so it would be interesting to compare and see how much different they are in size and shape, right where they would touch anything like the side of a curb if you are slapping or popping into anything.

Curious to hear any which way.

Same size as usual. 54 mm. I have the feeling that the slightly rounder edge is making me slip out more easily, since I sit nearly perpendicular in crooks and the radials don’t have enough edge to keep me locked in. Might be a mental thing though, since I don’t have that problem on one sided curbs. Madness.

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #6929 on: November 18, 2024, 09:35:12 PM »
I love the lock ins on Radials. The side profile is a bit different than Conical and hard to see unless you're holding both. The lack of a sharp edge/inner cone makes it so the Radial doesn't train track as easily.