Author Topic: Wheels Thread  (Read 778301 times)

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bombsaway86

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Re: Wheels Thread
« Reply #5790 on: October 09, 2022, 11:33:19 PM »
I like how the SPF 84b chirps while cornering at high speed. I can hear the wheel scrubbing and know I am at the edge of the wheels grip.
I personally feel SPF 84b is harder to break into a slide than F4 99a. Once SPF breaks into a slide the grip goes to ice very fast. I think F4 breaks out easier on smooth concrete but the formula has more grip while sliding offering more control.

As an afterthought when SPF regains grip from a slide it is just as nasty of a transition.
I got chucked off my board last week because of the above. Hip bone smashed my glute into concrete and sent me into shock w/cold sweats and all that funness. Turned out to be a walk it off injury.

I’ve taken some gnarly slams on SPFs for the same reason. The control factor on the F4s has let me ride away from some sketchy situations that I could not have pulled off on SPFs.

Despite my criticisms, I still think SPFs are really great wheels. They’re just intended for a single specific purpose. That’s another reason why I prefer F4, they’re good enough in pretty much any situation.

FuzzGNU

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Re: Wheels Thread
« Reply #5791 on: October 09, 2022, 11:48:09 PM »
All this SPF talk is wild to me, since I just assumed that was the whole point of those things.

That being said, I wonder how the 93a Dragons work on slippery ramps, because I've had great luck with them on slick blacktop. Stuff that even F4 97a would slip out on.

However, that might not mean shit on slick ramps.
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Re: Wheels Thread
« Reply #5792 on: October 10, 2022, 04:26:05 AM »
Anyone know what's up with those 95a Bones? Think those would be brilliant

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Re: Wheels Thread
« Reply #5793 on: October 10, 2022, 05:50:02 AM »
final post (for now) about pig wheels, if anyone's interested

i've worn through the tread on them, and they powerslide worse now, but i got used to that. it's challenging to do a long powerslide on them on gritty asphalt, they worked better in that aspect before the tread wore down. they also drag on unwaxed ledges more than f4s but not that much. i haven't got any flatspots on them so far, and i've done a ton of different slides. they feel slower in the streets than f4s, i put a new set of skf bearings in them to compensate but in the skatepark they work great. i wouldn't recommend them if you skate street a lot (unless your street spots are smooth concrete/marble/granite), but they're not bad wheels, they're just worse than f4s but to be fair everything is.

i might post something more about them when i switch back to f4s, so november/december
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scab

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Re: Wheels Thread
« Reply #5794 on: October 10, 2022, 06:35:46 AM »
All this SPF talk is wild to me, since I just assumed that was the whole point of those things.

That being said, I wonder how the 93a Dragons work on slippery ramps, because I've had great luck with them on slick blacktop. Stuff that even F4 97a would slip out on.

However, that might not mean shit on slick ramps.

I bought mine specifically for a dusty wooden indoor park. They feel slower than harder wheels, but definitely offer much more grip (while still sliding when I need them to). I much rather push a little more than wipe out all the time, so it's a no brainer for me. Things might be different if you're more of a bowl/transition guy, though.

backinaction

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Re: Wheels Thread
« Reply #5795 on: October 10, 2022, 07:39:42 AM »
I spend most of my time skating an Evergreen flow park that's smooth.  SPF all the way for most of the year.  They are just faster than anything else.  I have SPF, STF 103 and 99, F4 101 and 99s, NFG 95s and Dragons. I have tried to run the others because they are better all around wheels, but I'd prefer to have an SPF board for here, and then another setup with different wheels to skate everywhere else.  It's just not worth skating slower wheels and having a single setup for me. 

Once the temps drop below about 45 the SPF do get too slick for me and they come off.  I'll do F4 101s at that point, and maybe 99s in the middle of winter.  I may end up on the Dragons at those temps this year because they do grip really well and nothing hurts more than body slamming the concrete when it's 35 degrees.

FuzzGNU

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Re: Wheels Thread
« Reply #5796 on: October 10, 2022, 10:38:45 AM »
I spend most of my time skating an Evergreen flow park that's smooth.  SPF all the way for most of the year.  They are just faster than anything else.  I have SPF, STF 103 and 99, F4 101 and 99s, NFG 95s and Dragons. I have tried to run the others because they are better all around wheels, but I'd prefer to have an SPF board for here, and then another setup with different wheels to skate everywhere else.  It's just not worth skating slower wheels and having a single setup for me. 

Once the temps drop below about 45 the SPF do get too slick for me and they come off.  I'll do F4 101s at that point, and maybe 99s in the middle of winter.  I may end up on the Dragons at those temps this year because they do grip really well and nothing hurts more than body slamming the concrete when it's 35 degrees.

Interesting, thanks!

What's the difference between the two SPF duros? Is it a noticeable the difference between them?
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bombsaway86

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Re: Wheels Thread
« Reply #5797 on: October 10, 2022, 10:49:51 AM »
Expand Quote
I spend most of my time skating an Evergreen flow park that's smooth.  SPF all the way for most of the year.  They are just faster than anything else.  I have SPF, STF 103 and 99, F4 101 and 99s, NFG 95s and Dragons. I have tried to run the others because they are better all around wheels, but I'd prefer to have an SPF board for here, and then another setup with different wheels to skate everywhere else.  It's just not worth skating slower wheels and having a single setup for me. 

Once the temps drop below about 45 the SPF do get too slick for me and they come off.  I'll do F4 101s at that point, and maybe 99s in the middle of winter.  I may end up on the Dragons at those temps this year because they do grip really well and nothing hurts more than body slamming the concrete when it's 35 degrees.
[close]

Interesting, thanks!

What's the difference between the two SPF duros? Is it a noticeable the difference between them?

There’s not much of a difference between the 84b and 81b. It’s rock hard vs very hard

backinaction

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Re: Wheels Thread
« Reply #5798 on: October 10, 2022, 11:03:30 AM »
Expand Quote
I spend most of my time skating an Evergreen flow park that's smooth.  SPF all the way for most of the year.  They are just faster than anything else.  I have SPF, STF 103 and 99, F4 101 and 99s, NFG 95s and Dragons. I have tried to run the others because they are better all around wheels, but I'd prefer to have an SPF board for here, and then another setup with different wheels to skate everywhere else.  It's just not worth skating slower wheels and having a single setup for me. 

Once the temps drop below about 45 the SPF do get too slick for me and they come off.  I'll do F4 101s at that point, and maybe 99s in the middle of winter.  I may end up on the Dragons at those temps this year because they do grip really well and nothing hurts more than body slamming the concrete when it's 35 degrees.
[close]

Interesting, thanks!

What's the difference between the two SPF duros? Is it a noticeable the difference between them?

I have never used the softer SPFs and only use the 84b / 104 ones.   I should try the 81b/101s. 

Xen

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Re: Wheels Thread
« Reply #5799 on: October 10, 2022, 11:10:44 AM »
I've only ever skated the 84b, they can be very, very glassy at speed, be careful.

huggernaut

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Re: Wheels Thread
« Reply #5800 on: October 10, 2022, 11:16:20 AM »
Are zero’s wheels total trash?

Mbrimson88

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Re: Wheels Thread
« Reply #5801 on: October 10, 2022, 05:38:56 PM »
Are zero’s wheels total trash?


I don't know about the current versions, but a while back, a couple of sets came through my hands, used but not abused, so still a good shape, not worn down too much or flatspotted and they worked great.

Quite a few generic wheels from completes or cheaply produced with whatever brand name on them are, as you say, total trash - best left on the beginner completes they came on.

I guess that depends on whether they are on the cheaper completes, or from somewhere that actually makes good wheels.  It can be hard to tell sometimes as I have seen some places take apart completes and sell parts separately, when someone buying a board wants an instant upgrade, but if they are from Zero or a reputable shop, they should still be good if they are asking a higher price for them too.

If Jamie Thomas doesn't have a wheel sponsor, he would definitely be making sure he has his own brand Zero wheels to keep him rolling nicely, but I haven't really looked into any of that either.


https://zeroskateboards.com/collections/wheels


I talk too much about skateboards.  Sorry.

Plan9Customs

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Re: Wheels Thread
« Reply #5802 on: October 15, 2022, 05:16:33 PM »
@Mbrimson88 just wanted to say thanks for posting your wheel rehab with the grinder. Got me wondering if I could use my bushing shaping fixture with wheels.



Works well. I just need to make a sanding block with the radius I want so they’ll be consistent. I’ll toss finished pics up when I get it dialed in.

Murge

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Re: Wheels Thread
« Reply #5803 on: October 15, 2022, 05:27:33 PM »
@Mbrimson88 just wanted to say thanks for posting your wheel rehab with the grinder. Got me wondering if I could use my bushing shaping fixture with wheels.



Works well. I just need to make a sanding block with the radius I want so they’ll be consistent. I’ll toss finished pics up when I get it dialed in.

Yo post the radius block too! I’m afraid I don’t have steady enough hand to try with out some sort of fixture or something to keep them consistent. So basically I’m trying to steal your idea haha

Plan9Customs

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Re: Wheels Thread
« Reply #5804 on: October 15, 2022, 08:12:00 PM »
Expand Quote
@Mbrimson88 just wanted to say thanks for posting your wheel rehab with the grinder. Got me wondering if I could use my bushing shaping fixture with wheels.



Works well. I just need to make a sanding block with the radius I want so they’ll be consistent. I’ll toss finished pics up when I get it dialed in.
[close]

Yo post the radius block too! I’m afraid I don’t have steady enough hand to try with out some sort of fixture or something to keep them consistent. So basically I’m trying to steal your idea haha

Will do when I get around to it. Plan is toss a radius gauge on a good wheel, trace that into a block of wood & cut it out about 1/16” maybe 1/8” lower to accommodate for Velcro and sand paper, chuck the wheel into the drill press, spin and stop once I hit my stop tape line, flip it and repeat. Just go from 40-80-180-320 and don’t rush it.

Mbrimson88

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Re: Wheels Thread
« Reply #5805 on: October 16, 2022, 03:59:55 PM »
@Mbrimson88 just wanted to say thanks for posting your wheel rehab with the grinder. Got me wondering if I could use my bushing shaping fixture with wheels.

Works well. I just need to make a sanding block with the radius I want so they’ll be consistent. I’ll toss finished pics up when I get it dialed in.


So good!!!


Making those from what would be considered "dead" old wheels is fun.

Having the tools to do a high quality finish is even better.

I talk too much about skateboards.  Sorry.

Steely Daniel

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Re: Wheels Thread
« Reply #5806 on: October 16, 2022, 04:47:19 PM »
Expand Quote
Im looking for a good all round wheel for the shitty pavement on the way to the skatepark and feeling alright when i get there. Also be able to powerslide on both surfaces. I currently swap between 86a ricta clouds and 99a f4 classics and its a pain. My options are

F4 conical full 54mm 97a (30% off local shop)
Or
54mm dragon wheels (order online)

What do you guys think?
[close]
Im skating the f4 97duro, Classic shape 56mm (now 55-54) and i really like them. You can feel them Just a little softer than a F4 99 and you can still slide and powerslide really good. Very fast on the street too. You'll be able to powerslide everywhere, from marble to concrete to street.

Do they still make these or do you just have to find old stock? I don't see the 97 duro listed in their new catalogue.

I'm going between 56mm dragons and 56mm conical full f4 99a spitfires. I enjoy the general ride of the dragons since the ground is bad everywhere here including the skatepark, but they often stick and pitch me when I'm trying tailsides on concrete transition. The Powell wheels feel nice on my old bones, if a little bouncy, but the spits slid so well it scared the shit outta me. 97a f4 in the same shape and size seems perfect but I couldn't find them anywhere in Canada. Had a hard enough time finding the 99s in the specs I was looking for.

Mbrimson88

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Re: Wheels Thread
« Reply #5807 on: October 16, 2022, 06:50:49 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Im looking for a good all round wheel for the shitty pavement on the way to the skatepark and feeling alright when i get there. Also be able to powerslide on both surfaces. I currently swap between 86a ricta clouds and 99a f4 classics and its a pain. My options are

F4 conical full 54mm 97a (30% off local shop)
Or
54mm dragon wheels (order online)

What do you guys think?
[close]
Im skating the f4 97duro, Classic shape 56mm (now 55-54) and i really like them. You can feel them Just a little softer than a F4 99 and you can still slide and powerslide really good. Very fast on the street too. You'll be able to powerslide everywhere, from marble to concrete to street.
[close]

Do they still make these or do you just have to find old stock? I don't see the 97 duro listed in their new catalogue.

I'm going between 56mm dragons and 56mm conical full f4 99a spitfires. I enjoy the general ride of the dragons since the ground is bad everywhere here including the skatepark, but they often stick and pitch me when I'm trying tailsides on concrete transition. The Powell wheels feel nice on my old bones, if a little bouncy, but the spits slid so well it scared the shit outta me. 97a f4 in the same shape and size seems perfect but I couldn't find them anywhere in Canada. Had a hard enough time finding the 99s in the specs I was looking for.


The 97 duro Spitfire Formula Four wheels are definitely still around, but stock might be limited in your local area.

Size and shape might come and go a bit as well, eg the 56 seemed to be dropped in favour of the 54 and 58mm sizes in Conial Full for 97s, but Classic came out in 53, 54 and 56mm.

There are some more on the way too, from what others have said.

I talk too much about skateboards.  Sorry.

Xen

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Re: Wheels Thread
« Reply #5808 on: October 17, 2022, 12:45:26 PM »
If anyone stateside wants a gently used pair of the 97a spits let me know (will provide pics) and we'll work something out...willing to trade.

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Re: Wheels Thread
« Reply #5809 on: October 18, 2022, 12:06:47 AM »
Hey, what is you guys take on the Mini Logo 95a wheels?

For that indoor dusty wood.
I could almost get two sets and change for the price of one set of other brand wheels.

I figure I’d want to try 54mm wheel w/o risers, for a setup that’s 4,5mm lower, and 56mm.
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goodatmeth

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Re: Wheels Thread
« Reply #5810 on: October 18, 2022, 05:31:25 AM »
Hey, what is you guys take on the Mini Logo 95a wheels?

For that indoor dusty wood.
I could almost get two sets and change for the price of one set of other brand wheels.

I figure I’d want to try 54mm wheel w/o risers, for a setup that’s 4,5mm lower, and 56mm.

They're really nice if you want some grip on slippery surfaces. Also great for cruising around, smooth on bad ground.
You can still powerslide a little, but they're generally sticky on pinched grinds.

rocklobster

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Re: Wheels Thread
« Reply #5811 on: October 18, 2022, 07:02:29 AM »
Expand Quote
Hey, what is you guys take on the Mini Logo 95a wheels?

For that indoor dusty wood.
I could almost get two sets and change for the price of one set of other brand wheels.

I figure I’d want to try 54mm wheel w/o risers, for a setup that’s 4,5mm lower, and 56mm.
[close]

They're really nice if you want some grip on slippery surfaces. Also great for cruising around, smooth on bad ground.
You can still powerslide a little, but they're generally sticky on pinched grinds.

What if the Dragon / X Formula wheels are Powell's way of fucking with us and they are just rebranded 90a / 95a Mini Logo stuff?
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Mbrimson88

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Re: Wheels Thread
« Reply #5812 on: October 18, 2022, 07:44:08 AM »
Expand Quote
Hey, what is you guys take on the Mini Logo 95a wheels?

For that indoor dusty wood.
I could almost get two sets and change for the price of one set of other brand wheels.

I figure I’d want to try 54mm wheel w/o risers, for a setup that’s 4,5mm lower, and 56mm.
[close]

They're really nice if you want some grip on slippery surfaces. Also great for cruising around, smooth on bad ground.
You can still powerslide a little, but they're generally sticky on pinched grinds.


Yes to that.

The Mini Logo 90 and 95 duro wheels are excellent on slippery surfaces, from the couple of sets I had and tested, with the 90s having a lot more stick and the 95 having a bit more even mix of slip and slide without feeling like I was going to slip right out.

They skate like they are just the cheaper "price point" versions of the same compounds that are used for the more expensive Bones and Powell wheels, only these are mass produced in China, so are without a team, marketing, branding, etc which all add up to higher prices at the retail end.

I talk too much about skateboards.  Sorry.

Creachteach

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Re: Wheels Thread
« Reply #5813 on: October 19, 2022, 01:29:53 AM »
Expand Quote
Hey, what is you guys take on the Mini Logo 95a wheels?

For that indoor dusty wood.
I could almost get two sets and change for the price of one set of other brand wheels.

I figure I’d want to try 54mm wheel w/o risers, for a setup that’s 4,5mm lower, and 56mm.
[close]

They're really nice if you want some grip on slippery surfaces. Also great for cruising around, smooth on bad ground.
You can still powerslide a little, but they're generally sticky on pinched grinds.

Thanks man! They sound like the exact thing I’m looking for  :)

Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Hey, what is you guys take on the Mini Logo 95a wheels?

For that indoor dusty wood.
I could almost get two sets and change for the price of one set of other brand wheels.

I figure I’d want to try 54mm wheel w/o risers, for a setup that’s 4,5mm lower, and 56mm.
[close]

They're really nice if you want some grip on slippery surfaces. Also great for cruising around, smooth on bad ground.
You can still powerslide a little, but they're generally sticky on pinched grinds.
[close]


Yes to that.

The Mini Logo 90 and 95 duro wheels are excellent on slippery surfaces, from the couple of sets I had and tested, with the 90s having a lot more stick and the 95 having a bit more even mix of slip and slide without feeling like I was going to slip right out.

They skate like they are just the cheaper "price point" versions of the same compounds that are used for the more expensive Bones and Powell wheels, only these are mass produced in China, so are without a team, marketing, branding, etc which all add up to higher prices at the retail end.

I’ll probably try a set, just going from your recommendations here. I just found out there’s an online shop selling off older stock Bones STF 99a at almost mini logo prices, so might as well get both.

I’ll just have to find out for myself how bad/good they stick to the wood/rails. It’s almost science finding the right balance.
My F4s are breaking in nicely, and getting a bit more grip now, but they can still slip and slide on the plywood. They’re also 57mm and I think they’re making my setup too tall, for the short (6.3”) tail, as I’m getting ghost pop a lot.

It’s really good to have you knowledgable people around for noobs like me. Thanks for taking the time to school me.


Im too dumb to figure out how to make this drawing my profile pic.


huggernaut

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Re: Wheels Thread
« Reply #5814 on: October 19, 2022, 07:31:58 AM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Hey, what is you guys take on the Mini Logo 95a wheels?

For that indoor dusty wood.
I could almost get two sets and change for the price of one set of other brand wheels.

I figure I’d want to try 54mm wheel w/o risers, for a setup that’s 4,5mm lower, and 56mm.
[close]

They're really nice if you want some grip on slippery surfaces. Also great for cruising around, smooth on bad ground.
You can still powerslide a little, but they're generally sticky on pinched grinds.
[close]

Thanks man! They sound like the exact thing I’m looking for  :)

Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Hey, what is you guys take on the Mini Logo 95a wheels?

For that indoor dusty wood.
I could almost get two sets and change for the price of one set of other brand wheels.

I figure I’d want to try 54mm wheel w/o risers, for a setup that’s 4,5mm lower, and 56mm.
[close]

They're really nice if you want some grip on slippery surfaces. Also great for cruising around, smooth on bad ground.
You can still powerslide a little, but they're generally sticky on pinched grinds.
[close]


Yes to that.

The Mini Logo 90 and 95 duro wheels are excellent on slippery surfaces, from the couple of sets I had and tested, with the 90s having a lot more stick and the 95 having a bit more even mix of slip and slide without feeling like I was going to slip right out.

They skate like they are just the cheaper "price point" versions of the same compounds that are used for the more expensive Bones and Powell wheels, only these are mass produced in China, so are without a team, marketing, branding, etc which all add up to higher prices at the retail end.
[close]

I’ll probably try a set, just going from your recommendations here. I just found out there’s an online shop selling off older stock Bones STF 99a at almost mini logo prices, so might as well get both.

I’ll just have to find out for myself how bad/good they stick to the wood/rails. It’s almost science finding the right balance.
My F4s are breaking in nicely, and getting a bit more grip now, but they can still slip and slide on the plywood. They’re also 57mm and I think they’re making my setup too tall, for the short (6.3”) tail, as I’m getting ghost pop a lot.

It’s really good to have you knowledgable people around for noobs like me. Thanks for taking the time to school me.

What shop?   8)

Creachteach

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Re: Wheels Thread
« Reply #5815 on: October 20, 2022, 01:43:06 AM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Hey, what is you guys take on the Mini Logo 95a wheels?

For that indoor dusty wood.
I could almost get two sets and change for the price of one set of other brand wheels.

I figure I’d want to try 54mm wheel w/o risers, for a setup that’s 4,5mm lower, and 56mm.
[close]

They're really nice if you want some grip on slippery surfaces. Also great for cruising around, smooth on bad ground.
You can still powerslide a little, but they're generally sticky on pinched grinds.
[close]

Thanks man! They sound like the exact thing I’m looking for  :)

Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Hey, what is you guys take on the Mini Logo 95a wheels?

For that indoor dusty wood.
I could almost get two sets and change for the price of one set of other brand wheels.

I figure I’d want to try 54mm wheel w/o risers, for a setup that’s 4,5mm lower, and 56mm.
[close]

They're really nice if you want some grip on slippery surfaces. Also great for cruising around, smooth on bad ground.
You can still powerslide a little, but they're generally sticky on pinched grinds.
[close]


Yes to that.

The Mini Logo 90 and 95 duro wheels are excellent on slippery surfaces, from the couple of sets I had and tested, with the 90s having a lot more stick and the 95 having a bit more even mix of slip and slide without feeling like I was going to slip right out.

They skate like they are just the cheaper "price point" versions of the same compounds that are used for the more expensive Bones and Powell wheels, only these are mass produced in China, so are without a team, marketing, branding, etc which all add up to higher prices at the retail end.
[close]

I’ll probably try a set, just going from your recommendations here. I just found out there’s an online shop selling off older stock Bones STF 99a at almost mini logo prices, so might as well get both.

I’ll just have to find out for myself how bad/good they stick to the wood/rails. It’s almost science finding the right balance.
My F4s are breaking in nicely, and getting a bit more grip now, but they can still slip and slide on the plywood. They’re also 57mm and I think they’re making my setup too tall, for the short (6.3”) tail, as I’m getting ghost pop a lot.

It’s really good to have you knowledgable people around for noobs like me. Thanks for taking the time to school me.
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What shop?   8)
I’m almost afraid to tell you, cause 1) I’ll get accused of being affiliated with them or working there. Even though I can assure you I don’t. Not even same country. 2) you’ll buy all the wheels I want.

It’s Titus. In Germany. They have 40% on a lot of wheels and boards. Probably also clothes and shoes, but I’m not terribly interested in that stuff.

Im too dumb to figure out how to make this drawing my profile pic.


DillsDarts

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Re: Wheels Thread
« Reply #5816 on: October 20, 2022, 07:09:07 AM »
Just curious what the difference is between the spitfire classics & the big heads? From the little I can find online, they look like a classic with only a wider riding surface?
'Offensive career gets one do over, last attitude gets two tries. Cariuma riders have a bigger margin for error but will ultimately be decided by the referee'.
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logjammin

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Re: Wheels Thread
« Reply #5817 on: October 20, 2022, 10:32:47 AM »
^ yes.

LebowskisRug

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Re: Wheels Thread
« Reply #5818 on: October 20, 2022, 11:14:54 AM »
Classics come in F4 Bigheads don't

Mbrimson88

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Re: Wheels Thread
« Reply #5819 on: October 20, 2022, 06:51:44 PM »
^^ Yes and yes.


Just curious what the difference is between the spitfire classics & the big heads? From the little I can find online, they look like a classic with only a wider riding surface?


As the others said, initially the Big Head shape was a wider profile round wheel and almost every graphic came in that shape for a minute back in the mid 00s it seemed as I had a lot of them, from 54mm through 56, 57 and 58mm more commonly and some 59 and 61mm sizes too.  Even the Classic blue swirl 56mm wheels seemed about that wide, but now all of those have slimmed down a bit, when comparing new stock to the old OG formula Spitfire wheels from that period.

In the newer Formula Four wheels, the Classic Full shape is the same as the Big Head shape, which were readily available a while back, but seem like they are pretty scarce again right now.

I really like the wider wheel, wider contact patch but still with rounder sides, so these have appealed to me for a long time.

Wearing down normal Classic wheels a couple of mm gives about the same shape as Classic Full / Big Head shape too, eg Classic 55mm worn down to 54mm are about the same as the 54mm Classic Full / Big Head wheels.


Spitfire Wheel size and shapes in this post in the Spitfire thread pretty much have it all covered for you to look at:


https://www.slapmagazine.com/index.php?topic=68020.msg3759408#msg3759408


Basic pic here:




I talk too much about skateboards.  Sorry.