obama endorses mosque at ground zero

[weedpop]

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but i've been to a lot of countries where Christianity truly is persecuted in every sense of the word. China being one of the worst.

[close]

uhhhhhhhhhhhh what? i mean, what the fuck are you talking about? give me an example.

[close]

the falun gong, while not specifically a christian organization, is a better known example of China's lack of respect for human rights.

The argument is not about China's lack of respect for human rights. Everyone knows China sucks at human rights. It's about the supposed persecution of Christians in the modern world, which so far seems to consist of governmental meanies refusing to give them preferential treatment over members of every other religion.

[Ben LDL]

i never said obama was to blame i like the guy except for his lack of control of things.but i was referring to the country as a whole.and please stop referencing the country as a christian nation cause its not and never has been.franklin and washington were deists as was most of the country.

and if you dont feel christians are persecuted then how would you feel if you were the only one in a class that believed otherwise about evolution and couldnt say anything because you would be made fun of or whatever.i know this goes on with other religions and i dont support that,but it happens to me as a christian as well so dont say that christians arent persecuted.sure we can go to church freely and go about or lives but if i were to say quote the bible or pray in a way that offended someone you better be sure that i would be harrassed for it.look at the miss usa chick, she may not be a model christian but atleast she stood up for something thats right.

and also evolution hasnt been proven, its as much a theory as creation.so dont call us morons for believing something thats easier to believe.

You are a moron. It boggles my mind that you think creation is more believable than evolution. The irony of that statement is quite mind blowing. I thought that most Christians believe in some kind of middle ground where god started evolution because they see the evidence and cannot possibly deny it. On the subject of homophobia in Christianity, it is plain to see that most Christians do not condemn homosexuality. For the example, the Arch Bishop of Canterbury Dr. Rowan Williams is openly gay and was so before he became Bishop. There is no higher position in the church of England.

[Skwisgaar Skwigelf]

Question dlx: based off of the big chronological order of people who begat people who begat people, do you believe in the literal interpretation that the Earth is somewhere around 6,000 years old, too?

Fossils are simply the Devil's work   

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

So if you think the bible is a science book, do you believe that the Earth is the center of the Universe and that the sun goes around the  Earth? That's in the bible.
The bible's scientific theories are consistently proven wrong. I don't know why people hold so hard onto the evolution vs. creationism one. As if them admitting that one more thing in the bible is bullshit will really change anything. Rational people have plenty of scientific evidence to point to to prove the bible was clearly not written by an all knowing god. At this point those who still believe in that bullshit aren't going to let anything change their mind.
I disagree with religion in general, but when people tell me it is more of a spiritual guide and not to be taken literally, I can at least understand it. The morons who believe every word of the bible is true blow my mind.

Also, which of these have happened to you? I know several biology teachers who do teach evolution, and they actually get annoyed at how hard they have to tip toe around something so obvious because any way the creationists will flip out over anything. I also don't know of any teachers who mock their students or encourage students to mock other students for their beliefs. Has this ever happened to you?
The Christian persecution complex is so annoying. YOU GUYS CONTROL EVERYTHING!

[heckler]

[jimi420]

all this arguing over a flying spaghetti monster. 

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

Really, its over civil liberties. I would definitely support allowing a church of FSM being built anywhere, even two blocks from the Chef Boyardee factory.

[Boomhauer]

I wonder if the Westboro Baptist Church makes their own picket signs. It'd probably be a funny scene if they go to a sign shop and tell the employees what they want their signs to say.

[dlx111]

anyway does anybody on here lurk muslim forums? i had found some after watching a thing on 60 minutes im curious to see if anyone  is talking about the new york mosque.i have found some disturbing stuff on this one though. http://www.ummah.com/forum/

also http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100814/ts_afp/uspoliticsreligionattacksobama_20100814172344  if your read down one the muslim liberals or whatever says that its a provocative site for them to build this mosque and i was wondering why out of all places in new york do they need one that close to ground zero? i know there isnt alot of space in new york but wouldnt you choose a less controversial area just to be respectful,makes me think their up to something.

[Euclid]

anyway does anybody on here lurk muslim forums? i had found some after watching a thing on 60 minutes im curious to see if anyone  is talking about the new york mosque.i have found some disturbing stuff on this one though. http://www.ummah.com/forum/

also http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100814/ts_afp/uspoliticsreligionattacksobama_20100814172344  if your read down one the muslim liberals or whatever says that its a provocative site for them to build this mosque and i was wondering why out of all places in new york do they need one that close to ground zero? i know there isnt alot of space in new york but wouldnt you choose a less controversial area just to be respectful,makes me think their up to something.

Your ignorance and stupidity is disturbing.

[grimcity]

Again, it was a Burlington Coat Factory. It's in a perfectly fine district.

When I went to visit the spot where the towers were a few years ago, you know what was across the street? A multi-storied department store that sells knockoff clothes at really affordable prices. Is that provocative too?

Good luck on your infiltration into the Muslim underbelly. You're a patriot.

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

dlx is the stupidest racist piece of shit on here. "I know if I keep digging I'll find something to justify my blind hate of Muslims!"

[CUDDLEMONSTER]

anyway does anybody on here lurk muslim forums? i had found some after watching a thing on 60 minutes im curious to see if anyone  is talking about the new york mosque.i have found some disturbing stuff on this one though. http://www.ummah.com/forum/

also http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100814/ts_afp/uspoliticsreligionattacksobama_20100814172344  if your read down one the muslim liberals or whatever says that its a provocative site for them to build this mosque and i was wondering why out of all places in new york do they need one that close to ground zero? i know there isnt alot of space in new york but wouldnt you choose a less controversial area just to be respectful,makes me think their up to something.

have you ever seen the comments on a right wing (yet somehow "mainstream") news site like politico? their are people on there that say their religion tells them they must wage war on the obama administration! that the president is the antichrist foretold of in their sacred text! we should put a ban on churches that are "too close" to government buildings because of all the overtly violent threats. and i'm sorry, but if you want to search people at the airport maybe the people wearing crosses are a good choice, since some of their leaders claim that homosexuals caused 9/11, protest at dead soldier's funerals and obviously hate 'MERICA. an entire sect of christianity is run by a kabal of pedophiles who seem to be above the law for chist sake. and unlike al qaeda they have actual political clout in this country.

see the audacious things your kind of reasoning can do to a faith? sucks doesn't it? and that theory would still have more basis in fact than whatever "terror babies" theory the christian right thinks up next.

seriously, i have taken multiple religion courses and not once has someone ever bitched that they didn't teach evolution as a viable choice to whatever creation myth we were learning. does anyone think children should be forced to learn evolution in sunday school? of course not. anything "christian" almost always sucks be it music, science, history, literature, or art (at least since the renaissance when these were considered the building blocks of society). yet markets exist for this kind of bullshit because enough idiots get together and defend it as an equally valid opinion to whatever the rest of the rational world thinks. conclusion: christians are the whiniest most hypocritical bunch of cry babies, who if anything are coddled by society no matter how much harm their "special views" do to this country or its constitution. and yet somehow, giving in only fuels their never ending Holy waaaaa-fest. my theory is: fuck christians, they're nothing but a bunch of repressed pedophiles who take out their holy anger on brown people, intellectuals and, in a horribly obvious ironic twist that could only escape the most entitled believer's mind, gays.

but that's just my theory.

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

Your theory is more believable than creationism.

[weedpop]

anyway does anybody on here lurk muslim forums? i had found some after watching a thing on 60 minutes im curious to see if anyone �is talking about the new york mosque.i have found some disturbing stuff on this one though. http://www.ummah.com/forum/

also http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100814/ts_afp/uspoliticsreligionattacksobama_20100814172344� if your read down one the muslim liberals or whatever says that its a provocative site for them to build this mosque and i was wondering why out of all places in new york do they need one that close to ground zero? i know there isnt alot of space in new york but wouldnt you choose a less controversial area just to be respectful,makes me think their up to something.

"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity" - Ann Coulter.

Sounds pretty disturbing to me. In fact it sounds almost exactly the same as Al Queda's interpretation of Jiihad! I will suppose that as a fellow christian you subscribe 100% to Ann Coulter's views.

If they were "up to something" the last thing they would want is the intense media attention and scrutiny that they've been getting over this whole issue. Again this is an extremely moderate organization who condemned the 9/11 attacks and probably wouldn't get any great pleasure in building their place of worship on top of the charred corpses of our fallen heroes as so many right wing retards such as yourself have suggested.

[dlx111]

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anyway does anybody on here lurk muslim forums? i had found some after watching a thing on 60 minutes im curious to see if anyone  is talking about the new york mosque.i have found some disturbing stuff on this one though. http://www.ummah.com/forum/

also http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100814/ts_afp/uspoliticsreligionattacksobama_20100814172344  if your read down one the muslim liberals or whatever says that its a provocative site for them to build this mosque and i was wondering why out of all places in new york do they need one that close to ground zero? i know there isnt alot of space in new york but wouldnt you choose a less controversial area just to be respectful,makes me think their up to something.

[close]

have you ever seen the comments on a right wing (yet somehow "mainstream") news site like politico? their are people on there that say their religion tells them they must wage war on the obama administration! that the president is the antichrist foretold of in their sacred text! we should put a ban on churches that are "too close" to government buildings because of all the overtly violent threats. and i'm sorry, but if you want to search people at the airport maybe the people wearing crosses are a good choice, since some of their leaders claim that homosexuals caused 9/11, protest at dead soldier's funerals and obviously hate 'MERICA. an entire sect of christianity is run by a kabal of pedophiles who seem to be above the law for chist sake. and unlike al qaeda they have actual political clout in this country.

see the audacious things your kind of reasoning can do to a faith? sucks doesn't it? and that theory would still have more basis in fact than whatever "terror babies" theory the christian right thinks up next.

seriously, i have taken multiple religion courses and not once has someone ever bitched that they didn't teach evolution as a viable choice to whatever creation myth we were learning. does anyone think children should be forced to learn evolution in sunday school? of course not. anything "christian" almost always sucks be it music, science, history, literature, or art (at least since the renaissance when these were considered the building blocks of society). yet markets exist for this kind of bullshit because enough idiots get together and defend it as an equally valid opinion to whatever the rest of the rational world thinks. conclusion: christians are the whiniest most hypocritical bunch of cry babies, who if anything are coddled by society no matter how much harm their "special views" do to this country or its constitution. and yet somehow, giving in only fuels their never ending Holy waaaaa-fest. my theory is: fuck christians, they're nothing but a bunch of repressed pedophiles who take out their holy anger on brown people, intellectuals and, in a horribly obvious ironic twist that could only escape the most entitled believer's mind, gays.

but that's just my theory.

first of all i said before in a previous thread that those types of christians youre referring to arent chrstians. if youve ever read the bible youd know that as christians were supposed to love EVERY human being regardless of what he or she has done because no one is better than anyone.the people who read the bible searching for literature to fuel their blind hate are being used by satan, ive seen this firsthand in my own family so dont tell me it isnt true.

also the pedophile thing i guess you keep referring to catholics or some other denomination those people again arent christians. no where in the bible does it say its okay to rape or molest children and just go on with your life. god does not,never has,and never will support someone who does those things in his name or claiming to be justified in his name.

lastly i didnt read the whole article and i have no idea who that lady is.i watch the news like everybody else and hardly believe any of it which in turn forces me to watch multiple stations as well as multiple papers,whatever.

the main point of my statement was WHY would you, as a religious group that is hated in this country mostly by die hard americans, which i am not, go and build a mosque near something that you knew would create controversy.thats all im saying.

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

I can understand questioning their logic in doing it, but not their right.
On another slightly related note, this:

[CUDDLEMONSTER]

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anyway does anybody on here lurk muslim forums? i had found some after watching a thing on 60 minutes im curious to see if anyone  is talking about the new york mosque.i have found some disturbing stuff on this one though. http://www.ummah.com/forum/

also http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100814/ts_afp/uspoliticsreligionattacksobama_20100814172344  if your read down one the muslim liberals or whatever says that its a provocative site for them to build this mosque and i was wondering why out of all places in new york do they need one that close to ground zero? i know there isnt alot of space in new york but wouldnt you choose a less controversial area just to be respectful,makes me think their up to something.

[close]

have you ever seen the comments on a right wing (yet somehow "mainstream") news site like politico? their are people on there that say their religion tells them they must wage war on the obama administration! that the president is the antichrist foretold of in their sacred text! we should put a ban on churches that are "too close" to government buildings because of all the overtly violent threats. and i'm sorry, but if you want to search people at the airport maybe the people wearing crosses are a good choice, since some of their leaders claim that homosexuals caused 9/11, protest at dead soldier's funerals and obviously hate 'MERICA. an entire sect of christianity is run by a kabal of pedophiles who seem to be above the law for chist sake. and unlike al qaeda they have actual political clout in this country.

see the audacious things your kind of reasoning can do to a faith? sucks doesn't it? and that theory would still have more basis in fact than whatever "terror babies" theory the christian right thinks up next.

seriously, i have taken multiple religion courses and not once has someone ever bitched that they didn't teach evolution as a viable choice to whatever creation myth we were learning. does anyone think children should be forced to learn evolution in sunday school? of course not. anything "christian" almost always sucks be it music, science, history, literature, or art (at least since the renaissance when these were considered the building blocks of society). yet markets exist for this kind of bullshit because enough idiots get together and defend it as an equally valid opinion to whatever the rest of the rational world thinks. conclusion: christians are the whiniest most hypocritical bunch of cry babies, who if anything are coddled by society no matter how much harm their "special views" do to this country or its constitution. and yet somehow, giving in only fuels their never ending Holy waaaaa-fest. my theory is: fuck christians, they're nothing but a bunch of repressed pedophiles who take out their holy anger on brown people, intellectuals and, in a horribly obvious ironic twist that could only escape the most entitled believer's mind, gays.

but that's just my theory.

[close]

first of all i said before in a previous thread that those types of christians youre referring to arent chrstians. if youve ever read the bible youd know that as christians were supposed to love EVERY human being regardless of what he or she has done because no one is better than anyone.the people who read the bible searching for literature to fuel their blind hate are being used by satan, ive seen this firsthand in my own family so dont tell me it isnt true.

also the pedophile thing i guess you keep referring to catholics or some other denomination those people again arent christians. no where in the bible does it say its okay to rape or molest children and just go on with your life. god does not,never has,and never will support someone who does those things in his name or claiming to be justified in his name.

lastly i didnt read the whole article and i have no idea who that lady is.i watch the news like everybody else and hardly believe any of it which in turn forces me to watch multiple stations as well as multiple papers,whatever.

the main point of my statement was WHY would you, as a religious group that is hated in this country mostly by die hard americans, which i am not, go and build a mosque near something that you knew would create controversy.thats all im saying.

WOW! you completely missed the point of my post and then went around and proved its' original argument! incredible! the point of the post was to show that judging all of christianity based on a couple of extreme examples is a stupid way to go about things. but no stupider than judging islam based on a couple extreme examples. is that clear enough for you? my post was parodying your extremely fucked up world view while also pointing out the amount of entitlement it takes to not see the similarities between the two. way to go, dumbshit. 

[Albatross]

It doesn't matter what people think about the Mosque.

You either believe of freedom of speech/religion or you don't.

I do, and luckily our constitution does too.

freedom of speech and religion are tricky subjects in america, they kind of come in spurts

no doubt some of the frustration involved here is the result of people who have been fighting for freedoms less politically asinine than building a mosque near ground zero. he did put his neck on the line for the muslims, and although taking a stand against the turbulent religious and racial climate post 9/11 is a noble cause, I cant help but feel for a lot of american minorities who are equally deserving and still unrepresented. its a fucked up country though, im sure the reaction would be even worse if he stood up for the gay rights.

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

I don't see why other minorities would be offended that he stuck his neck out for Muslims. He also stuck his neck out for latinos when the justice department sued Arizona. I agree that he should do more on gay issues, but its a separate thing.
Also, I think most issues of freedom come as a result of controversial or foolish seeming actions. People don't challenge freedoms when it is not something controversial, and it doesn't take courage to get behind something inoffensive or without controversy.

[Giovanni Falcone]

There is definitely a mystery to the Earth and The Universe. I find it rather strange that we don't discover the evolution of man in nature still. There was a literal explosion of homo sapiens on the planet. Now we have distinct races, that have very strong gene pools to keep a Caucasian person looking Caucasian and an Asian person looking Asian. Not only their physical characteristics, but preferences in food, their immune system's response to disease/ailments, works in art, all are very different across the board between the races on the planet.

The distinction between Humans and Chimpanzees is immense, what can the smartest chimpanzee do and how about the smartest human. But our DNA is soooo close.

Think about what the homo sapien will evolve into in 1 million years.







Crazy.

[able]

I haven't been keeping up with this thread but here's my 2 cents...
Almost 70% percent of Americans are against building a Mosque
near ground zero
So am I to assume that 70%
of our population is made up of racist, ignorant, islamaphobes?
Personally, I think it is in bad taste and unwise to build a Mosque
near ground zero. Even our President who first sounded
like he was for building the mosque on Friday, reiterated with this
on Saturday
Obama-  "I was not commenting and I will not comment on the wisdom of making the decision to put a mosque there. I was commenting very specifically on the right people have that dates back to our founding."

I know many of our more enlightened  and sophisticated
people in this Country "get it." They understand that it's not about
a Mosque near ground zero. It's about standing up for what make our Nation great.
We have many freedoms, and one of which is the freedom to practice any religion
we see fit. But there are many of us who DO NOT and WILL NOT
ever see it in that light. Many of our population will see it as an
insult to the people who have lost their lives in 9-11
So is building a Mosque near ground zero right?
I don't know.. is it wise, or in good taste.
I think not.

[MahShugahNah 2.0]

Think about what the homo sapien will evolve into in 1 million years.


Crazy.

I don't think you understand how evolution works. We don't have much natural selection weeding out humans without certain qualities thus causing us to evolve. The only evolution I could think of happening would be more of an "idiocracy" style evolution where it is cultural and cultures that reproduce less will eventually die out and ones that make more babies prosper. But were not gunna be evolving gills and built in jetpacks.

[grimcity]

So that's it then. Muslims are terrorists. Even American ones. Beyond just dictating what building they can and can't get in Manhattan, why don't we ship them into a camp or something?

I mean, I see it now. Muslims are less American than everyone else. Perfect logic. Palinesque.

[loophole]

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Think about what the homo sapien will evolve into in 1 million years.


Crazy.

[close]

I don't think you understand how evolution works. We don't have much natural selection weeding out humans without certain qualities thus causing us to evolve. The only evolution I could think of happening would be more of an "idiocracy" style evolution where it is cultural and cultures that reproduce less will eventually die out and ones that make more babies prosper. But were not gunna be evolving gills and built in jetpacks.

homosapien is not endgame. to an extent we are controlling many aspects of out own natural selection, but nature is still in control of random mutations. gills, maybe? never say never!

[Giovanni Falcone]

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Think about what the homo sapien will evolve into in 1 million years.


Crazy.

[close]

I don't think you understand how evolution works. We don't have much natural selection weeding out humans without certain qualities thus causing us to evolve. The only evolution I could think of happening would be more of an "idiocracy" style evolution where it is cultural and cultures that reproduce less will eventually die out and ones that make more babies prosper. But were not gunna be evolving gills and built in jetpacks.

How do you know what we will or won't evolve into?

You don't think the leap into agriculture and rapid growth of technology has anything to do with evolution? How did that happen? Or why did that happen?

If man requires computers to do all the work, what will we evolve into? You don't think that we will have a different physical appearance after another 100 years? 1000 years? 10,000 years? Only culture evolves? What about inside our body? Nervous system, immune system, our senses...

You're very right on culture being an ongoing process, language is the biggest supporter of that. But we are able to build computers because we have an opposable thumb. And nothing on this planet has that ability, and if over time we start letting computers do all the work, and humans are doing less manual labor and thinking....then what?

Also consider all the synthetic and non organic implants we have in medicine, surgery, rehabilitation, etc.. And interbreeding between races. Who knows...

I'm definitely not an expert on evolution but I know all the serious discussions around it deal mostly with genes, dna, mutation, brain size, and fossils.

[able]

So that's it then. Muslims are terrorists. Even American ones. Beyond just dictating what building they can and can't get in Manhattan, why don't we ship them into a camp or something?

I mean, I see it now. Muslims are less American than everyone else. Perfect logic. Palinesque.

ouch!

I can agree to disagree on this one.
However, I always appreciate your perspective all things Politics,skatenerd, etc...

[Skwisgaar Skwigelf]

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Think about what the homo sapien will evolve into in 1 million years.


Crazy.

[close]

I don't think you understand how evolution works. We don't have much natural selection weeding out humans without certain qualities thus causing us to evolve. The only evolution I could think of happening would be more of an "idiocracy" style evolution where it is cultural and cultures that reproduce less will eventually die out and ones that make more babies prosper. But were not gunna be evolving gills and built in jetpacks.

[close]

How do you know what we will or won't evolve into?

You don't think the leap into agriculture and rapid growth of technology has anything to do with evolution? How did that happen? Or why did that happen?

If man requires computers to do all the work, what will we evolve into? You don't think that we will have a different physical appearance after another 100 years? 1000 years? 10,000 years? Only culture evolves? What about inside our body? Nervous system, immune system, our senses...

You're very right on culture being an ongoing process, language is the biggest supporter of that. But we are able to build computers because we have an opposable thumb. And nothing on this planet has that ability, and if over time we start letting computers do all the work, and humans are doing less manual labor and thinking....then what?

Also consider all the synthetic and non organic implants we have in medicine, surgery, rehabilitation, etc.. And interbreeding between races. Who knows...

I'm definitely not an expert on evolution but I know all the serious discussions around it deal mostly with genes, dna, mutation, brain size, and fossils.

Not to mention the fact that sudden profound environmental changes can trigger natural selection and with it start the mutation process to ADAPT. That's what adaptation is. How do you think the creatures that exist today came to be? When the Earth was forming, there was a LOT of environmental changes going on. Where there was water, creatures without gills were forced to adapt somehow, for example.
People forget about how evolution can work. It can be very slowly, over a significant amount of time, but can also be triggered in other manners. Humans are still able to evolve. It's what made us the top of the food chain we are today. Homo sapien was the most adaptable species, so thus we prosper and thrive more. I haven't heard any scientific breakthroughs lately that say,"Humans are unable to evolve physically. But every other animal can and will." It makes no sense. I do agree with you though, Giovanni. I was more or less also getting to his point of the inability for humans to evolve.

[El Venado Zombi]

first of all i said before in a previous thread that those types of christians youre referring to arent chrstians. if youve ever read the bible youd know that as christians were supposed to love EVERY human being regardless of what he or she has done because no one is better than anyone.the people who read the bible searching for literature to fuel their blind hate are being used by satan

Well, you're obviously not a Christian.

Quit being a fucking pussy. Don't blame "Satan." People need to take responsibility for their actions.

The people responsible for 9/11 were extremists; people who used Islam for political power. By your standards, they are not true Muslims. Anyway, fuck you. (By the way, you don't deserve to have DLX as part of your user name.)

[Tyroneshoelaces]

I haven't been keeping up with this thread but here's my 2 cents...
Almost 70% percent of Americans are against building a Mosque
near ground zero
So am I to assume that 70%
of our population is made up of racist, ignorant, islamaphobes?
Personally, I think it is in bad taste and unwise to build a Mosque
near ground zero. Even our President who first sounded
like he was for building the mosque on Friday, reiterated with this
on Saturday
Obama-  "I was not commenting and I will not comment on the wisdom of making the decision to put a mosque there. I was commenting very specifically on the right people have that dates back to our founding."

I know many of our more enlightened  and sophisticated
people in this Country "get it." They understand that it's not about
a Mosque near ground zero. It's about standing up for what make our Nation great.
We have many freedoms, and one of which is the freedom to practice any religion
we see fit. But there are many of us who DO NOT and WILL NOT
ever see it in that light. Many of our population will see it as an
insult to the people who have lost their lives in 9-11
So is building a Mosque near ground zero right?
I don't know.. is it wise, or in good taste.
I think not.

yay!   a non-biased thoughtful response!   they have every single right to build it there, however if i were the organization i would choose a different location simply because there is no need to bring additional animosity towards a group of people  of whom 98% are tragically misunderstood.